I don't know if it would fit with the spellcasting system you are planning, but I think it would be a good idea if the more powerful spells would require more time (=more action points) to cast. Or certain spells would have the opportunity to be cast within a longer time, and therefore require less resource to spend (mana points, if I'm correct). Kind of like the mini version of ritual casting in DnD, where you sacrifice time to save spell slots (except that one is designed for out-of-combat casting)
I 'm looking forward to seeing how his spell casting points work. I'd think that the higher level spells or spells with materials should take more than one action point.
I can see how different classes will modify the different actions. Also, spending 2 actions is a significant loss on your action economy so I love that empowering (spending 2 actions) gives such a big bonus
Love every single piece of the new system you presented to us yet. It's what I've always wanted from ttrpg system. Balanced actions, having the possibility to react to things happening outside of my turn (more dynamic gameplay), mana points instead of spell slots, everything making so much sense yet being so straightforward, easy to understand and having so much more of a potential for all kinds of flavours and fleshing outs around the great and ballanced mechanics you're creating. Flavour-wise I especially love the empowered mechanics, beautifully representing the greater effort done to succeed at given task. Thank you DC, thank you so much, I don't think I'll use the old rules ever again, if the whole system turns out to be as great as sum of its presented parts. ❤️😇
i'm guessing classes like the fighter or monk get ways to negate the disadvantage on multiple attacks, like say they can make two attacks on the same action (extra attack/flurry of blows) or the classes that get extra attack do not gain Disadvantage on subsequent attacks action up to their level of extra attack?
I'd imagine so, also some feats from 5e would either be less effective or need a rework. Shield mastery for one allows a shove as a bonus action following an attack, but that would change here, all would be revealed later probably.
This is really cool, I especially like the movement retention mechanic. As a wanna be game designer myself, I found that the Infinity the game rules (the miniatures game, not the RPG) were such a game changer that it's hard to come up with a system that doesn't copy it in some ways. If you haven't already, I HIGHLY recommend you do a dive in to those rules for research purposes. Maybe you can do a vid. on it. Cheers.
I'm so looking forward to spellcasting. The uncertainty of casting a magic spell, the mechanical expression of effort in terms of mana and action points expended, the possible alterations of spell (type of shape and area and it's enlargement (sphere, cylinder, cube, cuboid, cone,...), duration and it's enlongation, number of targets affected and their increase, powering up the effect (damage, resistance (-> immunity)) in exchange for more action points and (or) mana and higher spell difficulty check. I'm so looking forward to your way to approach this and a way how to Ballance it. What you showed us so far is amazing and everything I ever wanted from TTRPG rules and I'm sure even the rest of the rules will be a precious and we'll polished gem. I wish you good luck. Take care DC ❤️😇
Pretty cool thoughts so far. I like the empowering concepts for some of your Actions. Quick question. Why did you decide to do multiple action penalty for the Help Die being step downs vs keeping with the same theme and just rolling Disadvantage on the Help Die? So rolling 2d8 take lower vs 1d6? Technically the d6 mathematically is better change of rolling a 3--5, but you have the chance of still getting the 7 and 8? I agree that expanding the 3 action system from PF2 is pretty slick and simple. Keep up the good work, buddy
Barebones fantasy is a d100 roll under but uses this system. It's great. Yes, you have a decreased chance of success, but an increased chance of critical fails. This system is my preferred way to do things. Love this DC!
When saying all spellcasting requires a roll, I'm curious whether that also includes helpful spells, like Cure Wounds, Haste, or even the situational stuff like Magnificent Mansion, Misty Step, Blur, etc.
Stoked for this new system. I’ve been looking for a system to teach my family and friends, none of which play TTRPG. I’m gonna go with this as I’ve been following DC for a while and always impressed by the solutions, innovation and systems to improve on what’s been done before. Keep it up!
This is looking good !! I had an Idea once about helping because its kinda lame to "I help him in his athletic check". What do you do? Launch him? That's why I set 3 types of help. Full help, minor help and verbal help. Investigating may receive a full help, while jumping a cliff may receive a verbal help (set foot on that rock). Full help gives advantage and must be a proficient in what they are helping. Minor help gives a +2 and no need of proficiency (max 2 helpers) and minor gives +1 to a max of half your proficiency. And we set a check to less difficulty than the actual task to see if the advice helped or not.
Very cool system, I do worry somewhat about the analysis paralysis which 4 actions could lead to however. I think the decision space needs to be reduced to 2-3 actions to keep combat moving swiftly. Interesting thought, what if help action allowed you to gift an action point to another player?
Spending an action point to give one to someone else (so basically handing it to someone for free) is so cheap, and I thing dangerously easily breakable for me. And spending one action point to give another action point to somebody seems very expensive, but who knows... It can be useful, and of course I also can be wrong. Good idea though, but as far as I can tell, not that much do-able. But if you have better ideas about how to carry it out, I would love to read them.
I appreciate the simplified approach to balancing actions. Using the additional dice allows it to be applied to more than just D20 rolls. Solid & flexible game design. Getting excited to see the kick starter.
This is a very cool idea of merging the systems together as the 5e system is too "Action" dependant. Although, I have a problem with spellcasters rolling a d20 every time they cast a spell. Spells aren't an infinite resource, the spell slots limit the casters and make them think about their choice of spells. Martials can infinitely attack without worrying about anything. That's why (many) spells don't have a roll to hit. Also, in terms of Action points, action cast spells can use 2 action points and bonus action and reaction spells can consume one.
i've developed a two action economy, because it give you more options without bloating the action economy. There are 1 action abilities (like a normal attack), 2 action abilities (like a heavy strike, but you can later change it in a one action abilitiy) and zero action abilities (like an additional bite for a barbar in range). to keep control of the actions there a two factors. every special ability has limited uses (mostly per combat and you can add uses when your character get more experience), the other is you can only use an ability once per turn. You can attack for one action but for a second attack you need another attack ability that costs 1 action point. I tried with 3 or 4 action points but the more points, the more difficult got to balance it. With the two action points now i can do everything what more action points could do, but its way more controllable. i can for example choose on which level a class can get 2 or 3 attacks without the risk a level 3 fighter attacks a low level monster 3 or even 4 times. On the same time the two actions are much faster executed and the possibilties how to use them grow with the levels
Thing I love about this system is it plays like D&D/Pathfinder so its easy to learn, but it adds the dynamism and imaginative solutions that DC Coach is now famous for, to very common issues in both systems. Fucking pumped for this system!
shoutout to you for your work and for sharing it. you know I personally don't like homebrew, feel like we shouldn't need it, but we do, because even after so many years of gaming, the official game just doesn't seem to cut it sometimes. we deserve better games. this sort of action economy looks actually more modern than 5e or pathfinder, and it puts back the Tactical in TSR so to speak.
I was really hoping you'd touch on the attacks outside of your own turn. That was my main concern with your last video. it'd be nice to have it included in the video, whether you had removed that ability or not. Just for clarity.
I am VERY interested in the way spellcasting works in your game. I really hope there will be some balance between spellcasters and martials, because in 5e, spellcasters are simply way better at almost everything than a martial could ever be. The higher the character level, the bigger the disparity becomes..
I made a few new options for turns. The first is you can give a certain amount of hit points to deal that much. So you can give 10 hp to deal an extra 10. Kind of like you landing a punch while the enemy does too The other option is you ofering half of the dmg you do on a round to get a +2 AC. You cut you attack in half to rapidly defend yourself They could also offer up 1 AC to deal 1d4 extra dmg. Normally my players offer up at least 2. Which makes a difference And finally they can add 3 stats to their attacks dmg, like dex int and wisdom. Super fast and smart attacks. And 2 stats to their roll to see if they hit. Of course these new options open up new doors for customization Like I can see a rough offering 1 AC to get a plus d8 dmg instead of a d4 etc. Any other cool ideas for turns?
I'm not sure where to put this. But could I suggest having more differences between spellcasters. In D&D bards, druids, clerics, warlocks, wizards, sorcerers all cast spells but it really seems like the differences are just the spells available to them. I think more key differences would be cool. Maybe bards collect music sheets they use to cast their spells, and maybe those spells are almost entirely focused on buffs and debuffs. Maybe clerics can use prayer actions to recharge their spells. Maybe warlocks actually have interactions with their patreon rather than it just being picked at character creation and never mentioned again.
This system actually looks so fun to play! Keep up the amazing job! Just one quick question. Why should I use the die in help action ? Giving advantage is almost always better
If your teammates are trying to do something that requires a relly high roll, and already have advantage. Or if you want to make sure that you are actually adding something, because you could very much roll the same number or even roll lower on that second d20, and voila, the advantage didn't help at all. Or, at least, these are my toughts. And if I'm correct, advantage on a d20 on average means a +5, and a d8's average roll is 4.5, so these are not that far away from each other.
Like it! You might want to make movement a distance (like 5 feet) instead of a "space", that has turned a lot of people off before and is less 'realistic'. Also seems like 3 actions might make turns go around faster, be a little more important so PCs have to think about their turn actions more and can't double empower/focus.
Thanks for sharing this and your ideas I like how you think!. I love that shove action. I'll have to rewatch this a few times to let it sink in. I'm interested in seeing where this goes. I was trying to reimagine the system going back to your previous video. With a play test I'd be curious what the difference between disadvantage on second attacks would be vs a -2 or -3 to the roll and melee damage since in the split of time the blow would be quick and not as forceful. Also, will there be any sort of Bonus Action included in your system or will those sorts of minor activities be done as an action? Would there be any way to 'Hold and Action' effectively ending you turn but giving advantage on either one Ranged (Dodge) or Melee (Defend) attack coming at them or would that be to much to track?
My brewer brain wants to give characters additional AP as they progress, like +1 each time they increase their PB. Then make attacks 2AP and spells 1 AP per level.
Is there any consideration to advantage and disadvantage stacking instead of cancelling out? The wording would need to be adjusted from "roll twice and take the highest" to "roll an extra dice and drop the lowest." Disadvantage would be "drop the highest" which would let you do a few things. 1. Disadvantage and advantage would become roll 3 and take the middle, which would actually push you to average results. 2. Keep your terminology simpler. No double, triple, quadruple, etc just more instances of advantage/disadvantage.
Quick question . . . I understand that if on your turn you can choose to spend 2 action points to get advantage, how will that interact with a rogue class? Will the DC20 system still have the rogue abilities to get sneak attack when an ally is threatening the same target, or when attacking while unseen? If so, then can a rogue empower his attack (if it meets the requirements for a sneak attack) to get double advantage (3d20). I know some of the requirements are made to make it a bit difficult for a rogue to always sneak, but here a rogue can always empower an attack to ensure sneak attack. Just wondering how this will look like. So far I am really enjoying what you have thought up in your DC 20 system, really looking forward to it and suplement some of the information into my games.
Will you take 4e's non-AC defenses for spells and effects? It makes it so much faster to resolve and straightforward if the proactive party makes the roll.
Looking at the description, are you able to cast 2 fireballs with 4 AP? How does this system handle casting or making ranged attacks in melee? Do they draw attacks of opportunity?
Coach, for DC20, if a wizard casts 2 spells in a turn that target saving throws what happens the second time? Does the enemy have advantage on the save? That'd track with the rest of the way the system works, but wasn't sure.
To give multipe attacks a disadvantage penalty is good, to let players have a chance to hit even with their forth attack. To use advantage at all is crap, as it loses impact the higher the role actually needs to be. If you need to roll a 10 your chance is 55%, with one advantage 79.75% that's a plus of 24,75%, with two advantage 90.89% that's a plus of 45,89%. If you need to roll a 20 your chance is 5%, with one advantage 9.75% that's a plus of 4,75%, with two advantage 14.27% that's a plus of 9,27%. If you role with a +1 "advantage" bonus the chance of 10 becomes 60% and for a 20 10%, in both cases a 5% bonus what gives the advantage impact when you really need it. PS.: As you talk about combat I hope you don't use weapons backwards like WotC and Paizo. A spear is a dagger on a long stick, you attack differently but they do the same damage and a lot, as stabing wounds are the most deadly.
Honest question. If someone decides to empower their 3rd attack, does the advantage fully cancel out the double disadvantage or does it become regular disadvantage?
I like the action system the only thing that pulls me away from it is the Disadvantage penalty, i think its a bit much and unless you do have multiple d20 or playing online could be a chore for some players who want to be the fighter who bonks multiple times. However i really like how movement has been done specifically the "space", reminds me of DND 4e where movment was less feet and just 1:1 numbers in squares not the 5:1 / feet dnd uses now.
So on a good roll you could potentially shove an opponent 25-30 feet depending on your strength score? That seems like a lot. (Unless your character is a size category larger, in which case it could happen.)
The problem with the modern action economy that OSR doesn't have is, it seems to me, that PCs do and take so much damage with each attack that being able to attack every round is critical. So doing something that costs your "whole action" (like drinking a potion) seems really expensive. But in OSR, each round is of less importance, so missing out on attacking in a round is not such a big deal. (Also, in OSR, a DM would never let a character drink a potion in the middle of combat; that's idiotic.)
I like what i can see so far. I sill cross my fingers and hope that the encounter design party of this system will be good. That is the one thing that go me interested im pathfinder 2. A deadly encounter should be deadly an not be destroyed by one failed save in the first Round of Combat. But PF2 adds to much complexity for my liking. So DC20 ist my number one hope ATM that could strike a nice balance between 5e and PF2.
I standing up then also an action or will it be just movement points? I feel like the combat will become very static soon enough, mostly getting advantage for the shove, then use that, and then make a prober attack on a hopefully prone opponent, leaving one action for other things,like movement, or standing up after the opponent did the exact same the turn before. People will find a routine soon enough to alleviate the cognitive load.
I geuss ... could martials get a perk that can unlock ignoring the first attack roll for multiple action penalties? Have martials able to make 2 attacks with no penalty, and then start on the 3rd attack.
So, just wondering since you mentioned grappling. Can a grappled creature get out of grapple by forced movement? So say opponent X grapples your PC then 1 of your allies walks up grapples your PC, you choose to fail the opposed check and then moves away from opponent X. I have not seen in the rules of 5E that this is not allowed, but it sounds like based on the rules I have seen that this works by RAW. As a DM I try to stick to the RAW as much as possible because I do not want to write rules clarifications that the players have to read through before we start playing & I don't not want to think through all the possibilities of how a house-rule-clarification impacts a game on the whole. It seems like since the PC is now in a contested STRENGTH ability-check that there should be a roll off to see who is control of the PC, but this also is not how other things work. (Just wondering if you have thought about this & if it has ever been a problem in a game you have been part of. I have only seen it in 1 game & the DM shut it down saying that doesn't work. This seemed distasteful at the table, but it was just another reason to avoid grappling in game.)
Coach what is the program you are using here to format your work? I can clearly tell it's dividing the text into rows but looks nothing like any Excel or Spreadsheet-equivalent program I have seen.
Do you think it would be too strong for the help action to just Grant that player a success. Like o feel if 2 players are giving up 2 actions for 1 thing then sure they can do it. I was thinking of making it an auto 15 plus whatever the mod is. So they could still fail if the test is too hard. What's your thoughts?
What if an enemy moves towards me to attack, and I use 1 AP to move farther from him, that would render hia attack useless, but I don't think that would be cool
I don't understand why attacking multiple times warrants a straight up penalty. If I'm playing a warrior my entire shtick is the ability to wield my weapons with skill and in fantasy stories, a sign of a great fighter is how many times they can swing their weapon before their enemies can mount a defense or counter. It feels like for the sake of being "tactical" people forget that sometimes the simplest strategy is often the most effective. In this case being "kill the thing before it kills you". Multiple attacks makes me feel badass, being penalized for doing so doesn't.
What about a speed stat that would dictate your number of action points? Might be too late now, but I'm thinking of the difference between Tifa and Cloud in FF7, where you want to build Tifa with speed to get more actions, but other characters like Cloud just want to hit harder. I imagine this breaks down really fast without having rails like a video game has, not to mention multiclassing messing things up. I think it would feel super rewarding though.
I loved Alkander's so much that it's hard to tell where it ends and the 5e official rules begin at my table; I can't commit to any subscriptions (especially in regards to D&D on principle after recent events) but I will most definitely get the hardcover as soon as you announce the campaign and if there is a reasonable price for an upgraded and/or signed version, I will definitely give a bit extra.
Hmm, I am wondering if I make four actions but every action would be a different aprouch to the same enemy do I have this penalty. For example: trip him, grapple, throw object in him, hit him with weapon. Not the same action 😜
I don't really like the multiple disadvantage. It would be decent if the stacking was only happening each time the previous action was a success, because if you made an attack and missed, and then you tried another one with disadvantage, it would be too punishing.
Have you done blind playtests with players who aren't in any way involved in the development? Because from everything I've seen, the idea that this system will have *faster* combat is straight up delusional. It will almost certainly be significantly slower for a variety of reasons and actually seems like it will make some of the problems you have with 5e (not knowing if a turn is over, convoluted action economy) far, far worse.
I don't see the point of writing a rule that allows you to do something only to then severely punish you for doing it. it's the kind of false choices that made me hate patfinder, a thousand options of which 90% are useless. Spending my entire turn missing is one of the worst things that can happen in any kind of game, because if I'm playing a game I want to do something meaningful on my turn.. otherwise I'm not playing anything, i'm only passively watching other people doing stuff. Punishing players who perform a procedure that the rules suggest is feasible is nonsense.IMHO it is better to just say that one cannot do the same action more than once. Or you can balance it to reward players for doing different actions, rather than punishing repeating the same action.
But that's not true, because you can find ways to offset that penalty. So, in the end, if you can take advantage of attacking more than once, for example.
Major disappointment! So much promise, so little delivered... The only original(ish) idea is the help action... This is a butchered down version of PF2 where you don't even try to understand why rules are the way they are. For example the differences of the Stride and Step action and the DnD movement make the combat tactical, mashing everything into 1 streamlined version only makes it a stalemate where movement on the battlemap (which is one of the most tactical factors) is unwanted and with the Attack of Opportunity even advised against. I wonder how can you say with a straight face that you have improved the system and made it more tactical when without even analyzing the nuances it's clear that you have made the same mistake that DnD 5e did (untactical melee hack and slash stalemate), but made it more complicated and introduced problems that the system have already solved such as movement, different success levels? Also things like: you refer to yourself as a 3rd party creator, but you are also the main developer. Since they are mutually exclusive which is it? Get yourself together! And also you promised a 4 action system, then why are you implementing a 5 action system? You mentioned in the previous video that making actions and reactions indistinguishable is somehow a good thing, and everything should have an action cost is the way to go. Following that logic: why are you implementing a dedicated 5th action for the object interaction? Even so, since you should know that it has caused major issues for the system in DnD 5e, why do you use the same bad implementation which PF2 has already solved? And since you are creating a 5 action system, why can't you say so? I have gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you have convinced me further and I'm doubling down on my take on the previous video: you have some major mindset issues, you still view this project as a 3rd party addition to DnD 5e and are looking for quick fixes and patches. That makes you refuse to analyze the problem further than surface level, and are not even trying to understand what issues the other developers have solved with their implementations. You lack original ideas and your go to is to mash things together regardless if they go well together or not. That mindset have made you unfit to be a system developer. I hope you will fix yourself, since you have only showed that you are doomed to make the same mistakes as others already have! I say this for your own sake and the sake of the project. If you don't change this, it is doomed to disappoint the backers of the kickstarter!
So hyped that you're sharing this with the public now. This is one of my favorite parts of the system. 💜
I always love to hear what peoples favorite parts are!! 💜 you’ve been great this whole time man!
I don't know if it would fit with the spellcasting system you are planning, but I think it would be a good idea if the more powerful spells would require more time (=more action points) to cast.
Or certain spells would have the opportunity to be cast within a longer time, and therefore require less resource to spend (mana points, if I'm correct). Kind of like the mini version of ritual casting in DnD, where you sacrifice time to save spell slots (except that one is designed for out-of-combat casting)
I 'm looking forward to seeing how his spell casting points work. I'd think that the higher level spells or spells with materials should take more than one action point.
I can see how different classes will modify the different actions. Also, spending 2 actions is a significant loss on your action economy so I love that empowering (spending 2 actions) gives such a big bonus
Yeah if you're spending 2 actions for en effect or an empowerment, it has to be better than using the two actions independently.
I definitely want to see the spellcasting section, and how classes are structured.
Love every single piece of the new system you presented to us yet. It's what I've always wanted from ttrpg system. Balanced actions, having the possibility to react to things happening outside of my turn (more dynamic gameplay), mana points instead of spell slots, everything making so much sense yet being so straightforward, easy to understand and having so much more of a potential for all kinds of flavours and fleshing outs around the great and ballanced mechanics you're creating. Flavour-wise I especially love the empowered mechanics, beautifully representing the greater effort done to succeed at given task. Thank you DC, thank you so much, I don't think I'll use the old rules ever again, if the whole system turns out to be as great as sum of its presented parts. ❤️😇
i'm guessing classes like the fighter or monk get ways to negate the disadvantage on multiple attacks, like say they can make two attacks on the same action (extra attack/flurry of blows) or the classes that get extra attack do not gain Disadvantage on subsequent attacks action up to their level of extra attack?
Yeah, it works like your second option.
I'd imagine so, also some feats from 5e would either be less effective or need a rework.
Shield mastery for one allows a shove as a bonus action following an attack, but that would change here, all would be revealed later probably.
Yes I should have said this in the video, but that kicks in at level 5, for sure! Like your second option
This is really cool, I especially like the movement retention mechanic. As a wanna be game designer myself, I found that the Infinity the game rules (the miniatures game, not the RPG) were such a game changer that it's hard to come up with a system that doesn't copy it in some ways. If you haven't already, I HIGHLY recommend you do a dive in to those rules for research purposes. Maybe you can do a vid. on it. Cheers.
Hyyyype!!!! Been looking forward to this!!! Action economy!!
Looks great and I can't wait to see what a character build looks like!
I'm so looking forward to spellcasting. The uncertainty of casting a magic spell, the mechanical expression of effort in terms of mana and action points expended, the possible alterations of spell (type of shape and area and it's enlargement (sphere, cylinder, cube, cuboid, cone,...), duration and it's enlongation, number of targets affected and their increase, powering up the effect (damage, resistance (-> immunity)) in exchange for more action points and (or) mana and higher spell difficulty check. I'm so looking forward to your way to approach this and a way how to Ballance it. What you showed us so far is amazing and everything I ever wanted from TTRPG rules and I'm sure even the rest of the rules will be a precious and we'll polished gem. I wish you good luck. Take care DC ❤️😇
Pretty cool thoughts so far. I like the empowering concepts for some of your Actions. Quick question. Why did you decide to do multiple action penalty for the Help Die being step downs vs keeping with the same theme and just rolling Disadvantage on the Help Die? So rolling 2d8 take lower vs 1d6? Technically the d6 mathematically is better change of rolling a 3--5, but you have the chance of still getting the 7 and 8?
I agree that expanding the 3 action system from PF2 is pretty slick and simple. Keep up the good work, buddy
Barebones fantasy is a d100 roll under but uses this system. It's great. Yes, you have a decreased chance of success, but an increased chance of critical fails. This system is my preferred way to do things. Love this DC!
When saying all spellcasting requires a roll, I'm curious whether that also includes helpful spells, like Cure Wounds, Haste, or even the situational stuff like Magnificent Mansion, Misty Step, Blur, etc.
Yes it does! I have a really fun way to make all spells have a roll and be super cool while balanced lol
Props to the thumbnail artist - I love that purple dragon and the d20
That all sounds pretty great. Keep at it, sir!
Stoked for this new system. I’ve been looking for a system to teach my family and friends, none of which play TTRPG. I’m gonna go with this as I’ve been following DC for a while and always impressed by the solutions, innovation and systems to improve on what’s been done before. Keep it up!
This is looking good !! I had an Idea once about helping because its kinda lame to "I help him in his athletic check". What do you do? Launch him? That's why I set 3 types of help. Full help, minor help and verbal help. Investigating may receive a full help, while jumping a cliff may receive a verbal help (set foot on that rock). Full help gives advantage and must be a proficient in what they are helping. Minor help gives a +2 and no need of proficiency (max 2 helpers) and minor gives +1 to a max of half your proficiency. And we set a check to less difficulty than the actual task to see if the advice helped or not.
I have a help fumble that sounds kinda like that! What a cool idea!
MORE! SHARE MORE! I WANT MORE!
Also, I LOVE LOVE the shove option combo'ing distance AND prone! So much more epic sounding! :)
Super interesting system, exciting to see more of it be released
Very cool system, I do worry somewhat about the analysis paralysis which 4 actions could lead to however. I think the decision space needs to be reduced to 2-3 actions to keep combat moving swiftly.
Interesting thought, what if help action allowed you to gift an action point to another player?
Spending an action point to give one to someone else (so basically handing it to someone for free) is so cheap, and I thing dangerously easily breakable for me. And spending one action point to give another action point to somebody seems very expensive, but who knows... It can be useful, and of course I also can be wrong.
Good idea though, but as far as I can tell, not that much do-able.
But if you have better ideas about how to carry it out, I would love to read them.
@@annatarsoly941
Empowered Help Action.
I appreciate the simplified approach to balancing actions. Using the additional dice allows it to be applied to more than just D20 rolls. Solid & flexible game design. Getting excited to see the kick starter.
This is a very cool idea of merging the systems together as the 5e system is too "Action" dependant. Although, I have a problem with spellcasters rolling a d20 every time they cast a spell. Spells aren't an infinite resource, the spell slots limit the casters and make them think about their choice of spells. Martials can infinitely attack without worrying about anything. That's why (many) spells don't have a roll to hit.
Also, in terms of Action points, action cast spells can use 2 action points and bonus action and reaction spells can consume one.
i've developed a two action economy, because it give you more options without bloating the action economy. There are 1 action abilities (like a normal attack), 2 action abilities (like a heavy strike, but you can later change it in a one action abilitiy) and zero action abilities (like an additional bite for a barbar in range). to keep control of the actions there a two factors. every special ability has limited uses (mostly per combat and you can add uses when your character get more experience), the other is you can only use an ability once per turn. You can attack for one action but for a second attack you need another attack ability that costs 1 action point. I tried with 3 or 4 action points but the more points, the more difficult got to balance it. With the two action points now i can do everything what more action points could do, but its way more controllable. i can for example choose on which level a class can get 2 or 3 attacks without the risk a level 3 fighter attacks a low level monster 3 or even 4 times. On the same time the two actions are much faster executed and the possibilties how to use them grow with the levels
Thing I love about this system is it plays like D&D/Pathfinder so its easy to learn, but it adds the dynamism and imaginative solutions that DC Coach is now famous for, to very common issues in both systems. Fucking pumped for this system!
shoutout to you for your work and for sharing it. you know I personally don't like homebrew, feel like we shouldn't need it, but we do, because even after so many years of gaming, the official game just doesn't seem to cut it sometimes. we deserve better games. this sort of action economy looks actually more modern than 5e or pathfinder, and it puts back the Tactical in TSR so to speak.
Going to beg my players to try DC20 system, every video is like watching a beautiful recipe and I just need my own ingredients (ppl to play with!)
After catching you’re last stream I can’t wait to see how you do weapons and armor
All four actions I'm taking are Like, Share, Subscribe, Comment.
Omg… that was a brilliant comment LOL
Looks like a solid starting point.
I was really hoping you'd touch on the attacks outside of your own turn. That was my main concern with your last video. it'd be nice to have it included in the video, whether you had removed that ability or not. Just for clarity.
I am VERY interested in the way spellcasting works in your game. I really hope there will be some balance between spellcasters and martials, because in 5e, spellcasters are simply way better at almost everything than a martial could ever be. The higher the character level, the bigger the disparity becomes..
I made a few new options for turns. The first is you can give a certain amount of hit points to deal that much. So you can give 10 hp to deal an extra 10. Kind of like you landing a punch while the enemy does too
The other option is you ofering half of the dmg you do on a round to get a +2 AC. You cut you attack in half to rapidly defend yourself
They could also offer up 1 AC to deal 1d4 extra dmg. Normally my players offer up at least 2. Which makes a difference
And finally they can add 3 stats to their attacks dmg, like dex int and wisdom. Super fast and smart attacks. And 2 stats to their roll to see if they hit.
Of course these new options open up new doors for customization Like I can see a rough offering 1 AC to get a plus d8 dmg instead of a d4 etc.
Any other cool ideas for turns?
This is incredible! Thank you!
I'm not sure where to put this. But could I suggest having more differences between spellcasters. In D&D bards, druids, clerics, warlocks, wizards, sorcerers all cast spells but it really seems like the differences are just the spells available to them. I think more key differences would be cool. Maybe bards collect music sheets they use to cast their spells, and maybe those spells are almost entirely focused on buffs and debuffs. Maybe clerics can use prayer actions to recharge their spells. Maybe warlocks actually have interactions with their patreon rather than it just being picked at character creation and never mentioned again.
This system actually looks so fun to play! Keep up the amazing job! Just one quick question. Why should I use the die in help action ? Giving advantage is almost always better
If your teammates are trying to do something that requires a relly high roll, and already have advantage.
Or if you want to make sure that you are actually adding something, because you could very much roll the same number or even roll lower on that second d20, and voila, the advantage didn't help at all.
Or, at least, these are my toughts.
And if I'm correct, advantage on a d20 on average means a +5, and a d8's average roll is 4.5, so these are not that far away from each other.
Like it! You might want to make movement a distance (like 5 feet) instead of a "space", that has turned a lot of people off before and is less 'realistic'. Also seems like 3 actions might make turns go around faster, be a little more important so PCs have to think about their turn actions more and can't double empower/focus.
Thanks for sharing this and your ideas I like how you think!. I love that shove action. I'll have to rewatch this a few times to let it sink in. I'm interested in seeing where this goes. I was trying to reimagine the system going back to your previous video. With a play test I'd be curious what the difference between disadvantage on second attacks would be vs a -2 or -3 to the roll and melee damage since in the split of time the blow would be quick and not as forceful. Also, will there be any sort of Bonus Action included in your system or will those sorts of minor activities be done as an action? Would there be any way to 'Hold and Action' effectively ending you turn but giving advantage on either one Ranged (Dodge) or Melee (Defend) attack coming at them or would that be to much to track?
I would love to know how soellcasting works in your system. So hyped.
I don't want to wait 4 years to take my next turn. 😞
According to my math and playtest expericne DC20 RPG will be about 2-3 times faster than DnD 😆
@@TheDungeonCoach Now you've got my attention!
Oh my god DC when can I read the rule book?!
I liked your four action system. is it directly compatible with 5e?
My brewer brain wants to give characters additional AP as they progress, like +1 each time they increase their PB. Then make attacks 2AP and spells 1 AP per level.
Have you considered pathfinder 2e’s cone based search action with your DC Tip under the Search Action?
Missing sucks. The worst thing that you can do to a player is that, after missing, increase further their missing chances.
Is there any consideration to advantage and disadvantage stacking instead of cancelling out? The wording would need to be adjusted from "roll twice and take the highest" to "roll an extra dice and drop the lowest." Disadvantage would be "drop the highest" which would let you do a few things.
1. Disadvantage and advantage would become roll 3 and take the middle, which would actually push you to average results.
2. Keep your terminology simpler. No double, triple, quadruple, etc just more instances of advantage/disadvantage.
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Quick question . . . I understand that if on your turn you can choose to spend 2 action points to get advantage, how will that interact with a rogue class? Will the DC20 system still have the rogue abilities to get sneak attack when an ally is threatening the same target, or when attacking while unseen? If so, then can a rogue empower his attack (if it meets the requirements for a sneak attack) to get double advantage (3d20). I know some of the requirements are made to make it a bit difficult for a rogue to always sneak, but here a rogue can always empower an attack to ensure sneak attack.
Just wondering how this will look like.
So far I am really enjoying what you have thought up in your DC 20 system, really looking forward to it and suplement some of the information into my games.
Will you take 4e's non-AC defenses for spells and effects? It makes it so much faster to resolve and straightforward if the proactive party makes the roll.
Looking at the description, are you able to cast 2 fireballs with 4 AP? How does this system handle casting or making ranged attacks in melee? Do they draw attacks of opportunity?
Coach, for DC20, if a wizard casts 2 spells in a turn that target saving throws what happens the second time?
Does the enemy have advantage on the save? That'd track with the rest of the way the system works, but wasn't sure.
Question: Is there also the opportunity to empower grapple actions? If not, is that something that specific classes/subclasses/feats might allow?
To give multipe attacks a disadvantage penalty is good, to let players have a chance to hit even with their forth attack. To use advantage at all is crap, as it loses impact the higher the role actually needs to be.
If you need to roll a 10 your chance is 55%, with one advantage 79.75% that's a plus of 24,75%, with two advantage 90.89% that's a plus of 45,89%.
If you need to roll a 20 your chance is 5%, with one advantage 9.75% that's a plus of 4,75%, with two advantage 14.27% that's a plus of 9,27%.
If you role with a +1 "advantage" bonus the chance of 10 becomes 60% and for a 20 10%, in both cases a 5% bonus what gives the advantage impact when you really need it.
PS.: As you talk about combat I hope you don't use weapons backwards like WotC and Paizo. A spear is a dagger on a long stick, you attack differently but they do the same damage and a lot, as stabing wounds are the most deadly.
Honest question. If someone decides to empower their 3rd attack, does the advantage fully cancel out the double disadvantage or does it become regular disadvantage?
I like the action system the only thing that pulls me away from it is the Disadvantage penalty, i think its a bit much and unless you do have multiple d20 or playing online could be a chore for some players who want to be the fighter who bonks multiple times. However i really like how movement has been done specifically the "space", reminds me of DND 4e where movment was less feet and just 1:1 numbers in squares not the 5:1 / feet dnd uses now.
Coach is this gonna be a genre neutral game or fantasy stype game only? Im excited either way
Is there going to be official support for DC20 RPG in FoundryVTT?
It is 100% a goal of mine and I have 2 people on the team that are going to be working on that!
So on a good roll you could potentially shove an opponent 25-30 feet depending on your strength score? That seems like a lot. (Unless your character is a size category larger, in which case it could happen.)
The problem with the modern action economy that OSR doesn't have is, it seems to me, that PCs do and take so much damage with each attack that being able to attack every round is critical. So doing something that costs your "whole action" (like drinking a potion) seems really expensive. But in OSR, each round is of less importance, so missing out on attacking in a round is not such a big deal. (Also, in OSR, a DM would never let a character drink a potion in the middle of combat; that's idiotic.)
Sale me a T-shirt that says "I'll be play DC20 day 1!" PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY!!!
I like what i can see so far. I sill cross my fingers and hope that the encounter design party of this system will be good. That is the one thing that go me interested im pathfinder 2. A deadly encounter should be deadly an not be destroyed by one failed save in the first Round of Combat. But PF2 adds to much complexity for my liking. So DC20 ist my number one hope ATM that could strike a nice balance between 5e and PF2.
I standing up then also an action or will it be just movement points? I feel like the combat will become very static soon enough, mostly getting advantage for the shove, then use that, and then make a prober attack on a hopefully prone opponent, leaving one action for other things,like movement, or standing up after the opponent did the exact same the turn before. People will find a routine soon enough to alleviate the cognitive load.
I geuss ... could martials get a perk that can unlock ignoring the first attack roll for multiple action penalties? Have martials able to make 2 attacks with no penalty, and then start on the 3rd attack.
So, just wondering since you mentioned grappling. Can a grappled creature get out of grapple by forced movement? So say opponent X grapples your PC then 1 of your allies walks up grapples your PC, you choose to fail the opposed check and then moves away from opponent X. I have not seen in the rules of 5E that this is not allowed, but it sounds like based on the rules I have seen that this works by RAW. As a DM I try to stick to the RAW as much as possible because I do not want to write rules clarifications that the players have to read through before we start playing & I don't not want to think through all the possibilities of how a house-rule-clarification impacts a game on the whole. It seems like since the PC is now in a contested STRENGTH ability-check that there should be a roll off to see who is control of the PC, but this also is not how other things work. (Just wondering if you have thought about this & if it has ever been a problem in a game you have been part of. I have only seen it in 1 game & the DM shut it down saying that doesn't work. This seemed distasteful at the table, but it was just another reason to avoid grappling in game.)
I tied health to actions. 1/2 health, lose an action, 1/4 health lose 2 actions, 5 hp left lose 3 actions.
Coach what is the program you are using here to format your work? I can clearly tell it's dividing the text into rows but looks nothing like any Excel or Spreadsheet-equivalent program I have seen.
Do you think it would be too strong for the help action to just Grant that player a success. Like o feel if 2 players are giving up 2 actions for 1 thing then sure they can do it. I was thinking of making it an auto 15 plus whatever the mod is. So they could still fail if the test is too hard. What's your thoughts?
Empowered attack action + empowered dodge action every turn is possible
What if an enemy moves towards me to attack, and I use 1 AP to move farther from him, that would render hia attack useless, but I don't think that would be cool
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The amount of options you have on your turn and the amount of variants of those actions is a little complex. I feel like it will slow down combat.
could you use 4 actions on movement and move 16 spaces?
I don't understand why attacking multiple times warrants a straight up penalty. If I'm playing a warrior my entire shtick is the ability to wield my weapons with skill and in fantasy stories, a sign of a great fighter is how many times they can swing their weapon before their enemies can mount a defense or counter. It feels like for the sake of being "tactical" people forget that sometimes the simplest strategy is often the most effective. In this case being "kill the thing before it kills you". Multiple attacks makes me feel badass, being penalized for doing so doesn't.
What about a speed stat that would dictate your number of action points? Might be too late now, but I'm thinking of the difference between Tifa and Cloud in FF7, where you want to build Tifa with speed to get more actions, but other characters like Cloud just want to hit harder. I imagine this breaks down really fast without having rails like a video game has, not to mention multiclassing messing things up. I think it would feel super rewarding though.
I loved Alkander's so much that it's hard to tell where it ends and the 5e official rules begin at my table; I can't commit to any subscriptions (especially in regards to D&D on principle after recent events) but I will most definitely get the hardcover as soon as you announce the campaign and if there is a reasonable price for an upgraded and/or signed version, I will definitely give a bit extra.
idk about stacking disadvantage, I prefer just MAP from PF2E.
There is not a lot of difference between dodge and disengage with 1 AP, is it?
I don't understand why every other system hates multiattacks, oh so you can attack more and just miss everything? cool
Hmm, I am wondering if I make four actions but every action would be a different aprouch to the same enemy do I have this penalty.
For example: trip him, grapple, throw object in him, hit him with weapon. Not the same action 😜
I don't really like the multiple disadvantage. It would be decent if the stacking was only happening each time the previous action was a success, because if you made an attack and missed, and then you tried another one with disadvantage, it would be too punishing.
You feeling alright Coach? Your voice sounds a little rough in this episode.
Have you done blind playtests with players who aren't in any way involved in the development? Because from everything I've seen, the idea that this system will have *faster* combat is straight up delusional. It will almost certainly be significantly slower for a variety of reasons and actually seems like it will make some of the problems you have with 5e (not knowing if a turn is over, convoluted action economy) far, far worse.
Sounds good for rogues and casters, but pretty bad for anyone else unless martials can negate the penalty as part of their class
On of the things I talk about is the “Extra Attack” that allows martials to delay the penalty by 1, letting them make 2 attacks
@@TheDungeonCoach 👍
I don't see the point of writing a rule that allows you to do something only to then severely punish you for doing it. it's the kind of false choices that made me hate patfinder, a thousand options of which 90% are useless. Spending my entire turn missing is one of the worst things that can happen in any kind of game, because if I'm playing a game I want to do something meaningful on my turn.. otherwise I'm not playing anything, i'm only passively watching other people doing stuff. Punishing players who perform a procedure that the rules suggest is feasible is nonsense.IMHO it is better to just say that one cannot do the same action more than once. Or you can balance it to reward players for doing different actions, rather than punishing repeating the same action.
But that's not true, because you can find ways to offset that penalty. So, in the end, if you can take advantage of attacking more than once, for example.
Major disappointment! So much promise, so little delivered... The only original(ish) idea is the help action...
This is a butchered down version of PF2 where you don't even try to understand why rules are the way they are. For example the differences of the Stride and Step action and the DnD movement make the combat tactical, mashing everything into 1 streamlined version only makes it a stalemate where movement on the battlemap (which is one of the most tactical factors) is unwanted and with the Attack of Opportunity even advised against. I wonder how can you say with a straight face that you have improved the system and made it more tactical when without even analyzing the nuances it's clear that you have made the same mistake that DnD 5e did (untactical melee hack and slash stalemate), but made it more complicated and introduced problems that the system have already solved such as movement, different success levels?
Also things like: you refer to yourself as a 3rd party creator, but you are also the main developer. Since they are mutually exclusive which is it? Get yourself together!
And also you promised a 4 action system, then why are you implementing a 5 action system? You mentioned in the previous video that making actions and reactions indistinguishable is somehow a good thing, and everything should have an action cost is the way to go. Following that logic: why are you implementing a dedicated 5th action for the object interaction? Even so, since you should know that it has caused major issues for the system in DnD 5e, why do you use the same bad implementation which PF2 has already solved? And since you are creating a 5 action system, why can't you say so?
I have gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you have convinced me further and I'm doubling down on my take on the previous video: you have some major mindset issues, you still view this project as a 3rd party addition to DnD 5e and are looking for quick fixes and patches. That makes you refuse to analyze the problem further than surface level, and are not even trying to understand what issues the other developers have solved with their implementations. You lack original ideas and your go to is to mash things together regardless if they go well together or not. That mindset have made you unfit to be a system developer. I hope you will fix yourself, since you have only showed that you are doomed to make the same mistakes as others already have! I say this for your own sake and the sake of the project. If you don't change this, it is doomed to disappoint the backers of the kickstarter!