War in Middle-earth - The Battle of Unnumbered Tears
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2020
- In this episode, we look at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the Fifth Battle, the "Why Didn't We Stay In Valinor" Battle. This battle would see death of an unimaginable scale take place in a mere six days of fighting, and would see a clear victor emerge in the wars of Beleriand.
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The most tragic event in fantasy history. When I read this, I felt crushed like never before. All the hosts of the Eldar, Atani and Naugrim, in all their glory: destroyed by treachery and lack of coordination
I often wonder what would happen if the Sindar of Doriath, the Laiquendi, the Dwarves of the Misty Mountains as well as Nogrod, and even the Avari got in on the action. I mean it would only be delaying Morgoth's counterattack, but it would have at least made this epic battle even more epic. Heck, if the Hobbits were around during the First Age and they somehow got in contact with Maedhros, it would have been interesting to see how the Union of Maedhros interacted with them. Plus the thought of a Hobbit going ham on a bunch of Orcs and backstabbing Easterlings has me both dying of laughter and wanting to see an alternate reality of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
This was like the battle of the last alliance vs Sauron but Morgoth wins. I can't even begin to imagine just how large Melkors army was. Besides the sheer badass last stand of Hurin, the dwarves definitely deserve a shout out. They held their own against Glaurung. When they left the battlefield none of the enemy even pursued them.
I liked the Silmarillion version better. It held more gravitas and I think it fits Maedhros' personality better. I know some people don't like the idea of fate being vulnerable to change, but this worked for me because that vulnerablity lay in choice, which is what happens in the rest of the tales of the first age as well.
Are you implying Maedhros is incompetent?🔪
@@guille3622 No. Maedhros is shown as the most capable and benevolent of the the brothers. That he eventually fell to his father's ghost isnt his fault and its why his story is such a tragedy
@@jessmith7324 I agree man, but in the video said the Silmarillion version portrays Maedhros as kind of inconpetent, and you said it fits his personality better😂
He said that in the children of Turin book Maedhros is seen as more incompetent, not the silmarilion
@@billychops1280 watch again because he says otherwise, Darth states that in The Silmarillion Maedhros seems more incompetent because of the delay he claims to not making sense where in the Children of Hurin story, this delay doesnt happen.
Dying of old age is a huge achievement for First Age Beleriand standards and as usual, Thingol always proven himself to be useless despite the fact that his wife alone (a Maia as powerful as Sauron and even Ungoliant) have the power to change the course of a war.
bloody Thingol, having the most popolous and largest Elven Kingdom, could have surely turn the tides of war into a victory. IMO he should have f*ck Melian and produce 100 hundred semi divine sons and be useful for once! lol
Ungoliant isnt a maia
@@majorianus8055Even if Thingol had many children with Melian, the Doom of Mandos meant that the Elves could not be victorious against Morgoth without the aid of the Valar and Maiar.
@@JoshMorgantheNinja yeah it doesn’t even seem like doriath had that much of an army, considering that dwarves and maedros sacked it pretty easily. Don’t think it would have made that much difference even if thingol joined the allies.
@@akeelyaqub2538 She could be thats 1 theory!
The sarcasm and pointy tongue towards the several factions that pissed each other off instead of joining the fight against their real enemy is top notch 🤣👍🏻
I had to pause my reading of the Silmarillion for several times because of the stupidity and egoism/egocentrism of a lot of the elven lords and Princes... just too depressing
I very much believe that was done 100% on purpose. A recurring theme in middle earth is that pride and ego leads to destruction
I don’t believe Maedhros was incompetent at all, his plan was good it was truly just the betrayal that ruined everything
It is true that militarily speaking, Maedhros was far from incompetent as a leader. The incompetence comes from the fact he couldn't keep his more hot-headed brothers from pissing off everyone as well as trusting the words of Ulfang and his traitorous sons.
Don't forget the Curse on the sons of Feanor. Nothing they do will ever work out right.
@@JoshMorgantheNinja I agree that he failed in reeling them in, but think about it this way, he’s too busy both defending the east with his brothers, Maglor and Caranthir and keeping good relations with Fingolfins side of the fam, while also slowly oblversseing the migration of men, so he’s got a lot on his plate, and considering he kept, 4 or his 6 brothers out of trouble he did pretty well, it was honestly just Curufin and Celegorm that ruined everything in terms of diplomatic relations.
Hey everyone. This video is a bit longer than usual, so it took a lot longer to make. I try to keep the videos as short as possible (because it means less work for me) but there's only so much you can cut without removing all context. Next video is going to be on the size of Sauron's forces during the War of the Ring, so stay tuned!
Do t mind longer videos as your videos are very very good..
Hi dude, i wanted to put spanish subtitles in your videos, but you don't have the option, having subtitles in another lenguage would help to bring new public to the chanel, think about it
@Darth Gandalf would you do a interview with @History Of Middle Earth?
@Darth Gandalf do you know of any series that goes over LoTR lore in chronological timeline order?
I'm not sure. I don't really watch any other LotR channels.
“As King Thingol refuses to fight alongside the Sons of Fëanor, further cementing his status as a dick.” That caught me off guard
yeah I kinda felt that way too, I know that the Sons of Feanor did a lot of bad and Thingol had a lot of ill will against them, but he should have still seen that coming together was what was needed at the time to defeat Morgoth.
@@nathanofthefranks2955That’s the thing though; Thingol didn't want anything to do with the House of Fëanor or the language of Quenya after the Kinslaying at Alqualondë as some of his Telerin kin in Valinor were killed for the petty crime of the Teleri not helping the House of Fëanor in their war against Morgoth. And when Beren stole the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown and gave it to Thingol, Thingol was in his rights to refuse the Sons of Fëanor the Silmaril just like Dior does later on. There is an earlier version that states that Thingol actually does lend military support to the Union of Maedhros, but it was later changed as Tolkien thought that it wouldn't make sense for Thingol to openly go to war with the Union of Maedhros when the Sons of Fëanor swore to kill anyone who did anything with the Silmarils of their father.
tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nirnaeth_Arnoediad#Other_versions_of_the_legendarium
@@nathanofthefranks2955I mean murdering your brother and his people and then needlessly destroying their once in a lifetime masterwork is a pretty big deal. Not to mention their arrogance and shady dealings with him.
12:32 Hurin slev 70 Trolls of Gothmog's guard, not mere Orcs.
I was looking for that comment 😁
It was actually both trolls AND orcs
I wonder how Tolkien's WWI experience fighting among many allies against the Germans in huge battles where the attacker generally took ruinous casualties influenced his descriptions of these mythical fights.
I don't know if it influenced how he perceived attack/defence, but in his worldbuilding, he often went into greater depth about the defeats rather than the victories. I think that might've been influenced by what he saw.
Love your videos, thank you for your effort in making them!
Thanks for this video!
This was epic! You did an amazing job on this.
Great to see some coverage on the wars of the First Age. Keep up the good work.
You sir have my full gratitude and support for such remarkable and enriching content.
Damn... this was an intense episode. Good shit I loved every second of it!
I've just reread yesterday :D thx, you are one of the best ME/LotR RUclipsr ;)
great video, very nice way of explaining the war
Great content man!
Yup. Subscribed. You did a freaking amazing job man, thanks for putting in the time and energy. And goddang talent. Hurin Thalion is hands down my favorite fictional character. Closely followed by Indiana Jones. ;)
Great video, for real. Good job
I kind of feel sorry for Fingon he served bravely and well through out this battle and the previous battles he managed to scrap wins when others were routed or rode to the rescue of others and was likely one of the best if not the best commanders who stood against Morgoth and he was let down by a subordinate.
Yeah, I think he's probably the Noldorin prince that gets overlooked the most. He had a solid record of wins, but it just so happened that his single defeat was the worst defeat ever inflicted on the Elves.
@@DarthGandalfYTIt also didn't help that Gothmog cheated by having a fellow Balrog tie up Fingon so that he could kill the High King of the Noldor in a cheap ass way.
I like your numbers with the size of the armies.
Great video! I presume the sacking of Doriath and fall of gondolin is coming next?
Good videos man! Keep it up
Thanks nice content..Could you do a ranking of the Seven Sons of Feanor? ..you decide into what category you rank them
Thanks for the effort you've put into this video.
It's good and useful to get a detailed overview of the Battle of Unnumbered Tears in such a way, regardless of the fact that it's not Canon according to Tolkien's writing. Nice one.
It is canon, the details on what happens during the battle is the difference
I think you are thinking of Dagor Dagorath which is left to the reader to decide whether it is Canon or not.
Love this series
I couldnt imagine even live-action won't get it just omg.
Amazon would have to spend a whole season of episodes to accurately show a battle this epic, and I don't think there's enough CGI power to show such a sweeping battle, but maybe I'm wrong. Thanx for the video. Been so long since I read the Silmarillion that I don't remember the particulars of the battle, except the first attack being a "taking the bait/breaking formation/plan" type of mistake.
They're doing the 2nd age. This is the first age.
I love the dwarves vs Glaurung moment
Great video as usual!! Man imagine seeing this battle play out in live action, it would be some sight. Love reading back through the Silmarillion every few years, I hope Amazon dont fuck up the show they're gonna be doing!!
The Amazon show takes place during the Second Age
@@DragonoidBerserker1 yes I know, what i mean is I hope they stay true to the stories and content they put out
Oh you poor summer child
@@thelizardwizard1113 and how we were all fucked over hugely by them 2 years later 🤦♂️🥲🥲
“Cementing his status as a dick” lol
What if the union won the the Nirnaeth Arnoediad?
Can we request for subtitles please? I'm not that familiar with names and locations but I'm interested to learn. Thank you
Can anyone tell me where the wallpaper at 14:43 is from?
The oath of Féanor ended up taking physical shape and ultimately ended up being that dude's downfall, what Ëonwe told him to stand down in his pursuit of the Silmarils, he should have listened.
Is Maedhros pronounced with a hard "d" sound or is it pronounced with a soft "th" sound?
"th", but I can't pronounce the "thr" sound.
A couple of things:
1. I don't remember Glaurung coming out leading other dragons. I think he was the only one to come out with Balrogs in his train.
2. I respectfully disagree with Thingol being a dick. I believe Melian was involved in convincing Thingol to not get involved, hopefully to avoid him being ensnared in the curse of Mandos. Also, I believe that the sons of Feanor had, more or less, threatened to attack Doriath at some point once they were victorious. Thingol would do better to let them spend their forces against Morgoth rather than his people.
Great videos, though. Good job.
Glaurung gets mentioned along side his "brood" several times in the Fifth Battle chapter of the Silmarillion. I interpret that as meaning that he had a following of lesser dragons, and we know dragons such as these participated in the Fall of Gondolin .
And yeah, I agree that I'm a bit harsh on Thingol. It's more of a meme for me at this point.
"There came wolves, and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons, and Glaurung father of dragons."
I didn't like Thingol either. He struck me as a petty bitch like when the Noldor returned to middle earth he "gave his leave" for them to settle in "His kingdom". Like dude, it's a big world, and here are your long lost kin! Don't forget this is before he knew about the kinslaying and the oath. He should have embraced the powerful Noldor as allies against evil rather than try his dick-measuring act with everyone. They could have achieved much together, but he hid in his forest like a pussy and pretended the rest of the world didn't exist and like Morgoth wouldn't come for Doriath once he was done with everyone else, girdle of melian or not. Then he basically tried to kill Beren by demanding a silmaril in return for his daughters hand. And he was a cheap ass to the dwarves when setting the silmaril into the nauglamir, both of which treasures fell into his lap FOR FREE. Finally the dwarves set him right by murdering his candy ass.
The one thing the Silmarillion kind of dispels is the notion of the elves being so wise and smart. They made a lot of punk moves in the first age. I guess the idea is that they learned from it, but some of these guys were thousands of years old when they made these horrific calls.
@@thekiatty6953 I believe that it is elvish propaganda that the Dwarves were unreasonable about payment and they actually demanded just reasonable compensation and not the Nauglamír/Silmaril combination.
@@tominiowa2513 haha damn elves controlling the narrative
Where were Galadriel and Celeborn (or were they not married yet)?
Someone has a grudge against Thingol
Children of Huron brought me here!
Children of Húrin
I know the number of tears
Thingol is much more of a dummy than a dick. Don't forget the kinslaying where Feanor and his sons murdered Thingol's relatives and then burned their master crafted ships, then pretended like it never happened. He had good reasons not to help them. Also, his help wouldn't have mattered. The Noldor were cursed to fail because of how they left Valinor and their pride.
I'd say that there would have been more men from Dor-lomin
As they held morgoths forces long enough for the elves from gondolin to be able to escape.with 12,000 men,even with the men of Brethil, I Dont think they will be able to hold against such odds for that long so I'd say it would be between 15 - 20,000 men
Also guindor would have had more as they broke into Angband killing the gaurds which you probably can't do with 2000 men unless they are super human
You are correct that Gwindor would have had to have more than 2000 men given that a company in military terms consists of 100 to 250 soldiers. He would have had to rally at least 10 companies to fight with him.
or maybe don’t divide two armies that require coordination by hundreds of miles (tactical palantir?)
Or ravens, or thrushes, or even eagles (if they will).
@@nigsbalchin226 Manwë was too much of a stick in the mud for the Great Eagles to help.
@@tominiowa2513Him and Mandos
Maedhros is pronounced Maithros, just so you know. My life was atleast turned upside down by that discovery
Thingol is not a Dick
Ffs
Treating the work like a computer game is typical of this Absurd time !
Demanding your daughter's lover go fetch a jewel from the most deadly and dangerous entity in the world in exchange for her hand in marriage even though she clearly loves him to death is pretty much the definition of a haughty, stubborn, spiteful, elitist individual. For the sake of brevity, we could just use the term "dick".
Out of respect to JRR, please omit the profanity in both narrative and comments, thou foul orcs!