WW2 German Semi-Automatic Rifles: The G41 vs the G43
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Let's take a deep dive into the history, use and differences between the two officially adopted and deployed primary German WW2 semi-automatic rifles, the G41 and the G43.
What's the difference between them and why did the G41 evolve into the G43?
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I'm about halfway in the video and this feels like Karl doing a Forgotten Weapons episode. I actually like it a lot.
A surprise blessing from St. Kasarda.
That’s exactly what I was going to say
Reiky Foxxe damn that’s a great idea, right up there with Ian discussing a nerf gun
Possibly the only other man on the planet that could fill the role
With a little Othias thrown in with his patented steel pokey I mean pointy
thing
Othais brings his Patented Plastic Pokey-Hand
Ian brings his Universal Gun Disassembly Tool
Karl brings a knife
I know who's winning this fight
Friendship?
And Karl store the rare guns on a table with exposed rusty nails ;)
Clearly Othais and his Patented Plastic Pokey, no contest 👉
the gun, because Karl brought a knife to a gun fight
Not just any knife....a german trench dagger
Somehow this gives me a greater appreciation for the SVT-40...
so youre basically a commie ?
RyeOnHam I think the FN FAL also used a SVT-40 style gas system
@@8166PC1 then it was under-gassed, my SVT 40 is unreliable only for five shots and then it gets adjusted.
@@thomasscharfberg5100 well, sorta. It's a little simpler, but they're both short stroke gas piston operated.
@@soundofeighthooves Oh yes because liking a gun's design is definitely commie. Dense guy here.
I'd like to see a G43 vs FG42 vs STG44 some day.
Spoiler: Stg is better.
@@LUR1FAX I dunno the Fg-42 would prob win.
@@abyssus9304 there's a reason why we use intermediate cartridges to this day.
@@Legitpenguins99 FG42 has a compensator and the stg44 does not. That would be a good match. Also if the contest included long range challenges the stg44 might have a slight disadvantage.
I don't really think that's a fair comparison, categorically speaking, honestly, due to the whole intermediate cartridge plus select fire thing. I'd be more interested in a G43 vs SVT-40 vs M1 Garand vs FG-42 video, since I feel that they are far more within the same weight class of their competition than anything I mentioned previously versus a sturmgewehr (after all, it provided the template for pretty much all modern military firearms). I am even on the fence about including the FG-42, honestly, due primarily to its 20 round detachable box magazine (twice that of its closest competition) and select-fire capabilities, as well as the controllability it's credited with.
Really cool stuff Karl. In doing more research on German Snipers, the consensus seemed to be that they universally preferred the 98k for accuracy over the scopes semi G43.
You should see how far you can shoot a shotgun with sabots and a rifled barrel.
@@Tuton25 I've seen it done out to 300m on man sized targets with good results
Please wear a hat in the sun. Love, Mom
The irony is the best selling point of the Kar98k was that it was the ideal rifle for long-term military use. It was not very expensive to make, fairly simple to train conscript soldiers on, extremely durable, and fairly easy to repair/refurbish, ensuring long service lives for the weapons. We then get to 1942-43 and the Germans are making guns like the MP43 and G43 that are still reasonably robust, but no one is expecting them to last more than handful of years.
There are still STGs In Syria so they can last a "couple" of years
Some of that having to do with the attrition of war the idea being make it work now and we’ll work on making it last later.
@@zachsorenson1382 Oh absolutely, that was exactly it, but it is ironic all the same and I like irony in my History. Good for the blood.
They where actually really quite badly made guns and as he says at 5:52 they broke often, sometimes immediately.
@@sabo55
I understood that as: The soldier carrying it has a lifetime of minutes and the rifle falls into the mud, never to be seen again after the Germans are forced to retreat.
Fantastic episode, really interesting to see these two side by side. I think the G41(M) gets a bad rap though. I think it's one of the best examples of German mechanical insanity you can find. The fact that the madmen at Mauser managed to fulfill almost all of the requirements of the undies-on-head stupid design brief, and end up with a gun that functioned at all, however poorly, is nothing short of miraculous. Their dedication to taking a profoundly stupid idea, and beating it over the head with engineering until it (sort of) worked is something we should all aspire to.
the gun is germany in a nutshell.
I like Karl's approach to weapon reviews. He shows the practical historical aspect of the firearm, really shows you what it was like to be issued one of these guns with all the drawbacks and benefits. Not just a historical review, but a huge emphasis on practical application in a give historical period of time. I enjoyed this video quite a lot.
If InRange and Forgotten Weapons was a university : Ian would be a mostly theoretical professor and Karl is a practical seminar teacher, I'd take those classes! :D
"This is truely a Collectable" - drags it over rusted nail heads xD
Yeah those nails are giving me anxiety.
He needs a German blankie to keep his babies protected. XP XD
to be fair, looking at that table i'm pretty sure the wood stocks are stronger than the nails
Using a dagger as a disassembly tool and pointer for education. That would be an upgrade for Ian and Othias.
Eh, keeps them from being too edgy.
But I like the patented plastic pokey hand.
There's actually a Brazilian version of this in 30-06. Apparently the army didn't like it and switched to the FAL pretty quickly.
I wonder how much of the over-gassing comes from the location of the gas block on the G43. It's much closer to the chamber than it is on the SVT.
Interestingly, here in Canada we had a company (Globco) sporterize/convert some SVT's to .303. When they did so they moved the gas blocks way, way closer to the chamber. They're well known to be overgassed to a dangerous degree.
That would make sense. Closer to chamber, higher pressure.
I had a K43 that my neighbor's uncle sent home from Europe during WWII. All original, all matching, horrible fit and finish, and wouldn't feed more than two rounds before having a malfunction. A collector paid me an obnoxious amount of money for it, so I guess it wasn't that bad!
Excellent video, Karl.
Karl's one uping Othais with his patented metal pokey.
Patented metal pokey thing
I thought the same thing!
Solingen Steel Stabby
There’s a G41(M) at the Springfield Armory museum. They also have one FG42 on display as well (they have a total of seven, three of them are the early pattern).
My favorite part of your video was the old school prop planes flying by giving the feeling that you were out in the field during a WWII bombing run.
Next week, Ian will do a video with Carnik Con to balance things out. This was a great video, Karl! I think if you have the opportunity to do something "Forgotten-y," just do it. It's not often that a G41 and G43 can be directly compared.
Karl (and Ian) - your match videos are by far my favourite content on this channel, but this was an excellent video too. The information was clear and concise and you managed to clearly show the parts on camera as you were talking about them. Well done - keep it up!
I think the parts incompatibility issues gun to gun that people say the SVT40 has is somewhat blown out of proportion. The Soviets stripped all the rifles post war and cobbled them back together with cleaned up parts of different rifles, same thing they did with the Mosins. My SVT40 doesn't have an original serial numbered part on it, and provided I have the gun on the proper gas setting, it runs just fine. I did replace the missing magazine on my gun as well... it required no fitting to my rifle. That being said the repro mags are a joke, I had two that I couldn't get working no matter what.
I am not saying the issue didn't exist, and I only have a sample size of one, but I don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be. I highly doubt an arsenal in the Soviet union would spend too much time or ammo getting one rifle fitted and working when they may possibly have thousands and thousands to recondition and store. Maybe a Canadian collector with a more fleshed out SVT40 collection could do some testing?
Great video, pretty neat break down of the G41 and G43.
I'm extremely impressed that you managed to make it through this entire video without dropping one of these incredibly rare parts off of that tiny little table in the brush, the entire time I was nervous that some critical component was gonna get knocked off the table and into the tall grass never to be found again.
Beautiful setting for a video shoot though.
Thank you!
Practical InRange stuff is definitely always fun, Karl.
This was cool. We're lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as you, Karl, to give us the rundown on these.
I've been waiting for this for a long time thanks for posting and keep up the good work
I'm really enjoying your content Karl. Ian's too. Love it when you Guys get together!
Thank you very much.
Rich.
This was a well made discussion Karl. I knew a fair amount of this information already, yet video was still very enjoyable the whole way through.
I really liked this comparative/lineage analysis of the G41 and G43. This isn't something you see on most channels that cover the history of weapons, it might be mentioned but never directly compared with examples. I'd really like if you could do this for other weapons families like the FN49 and FAL, or Browning-action pistols 1911 -> Hi-Power -> CZ75 and so on.
Amazing job Karl. One of your best videos, and that is saying a lot!!!!!
That was absolutely fascinating. Thank you very much.
Thank you for this in-depth dive into the G41 and G43, it was very informative and I learned a lot I haven't seen or seen explained as well elsewhere
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have an svt 40, and garand the g43 is the last in most common semi autos of wwii but they are expensive and getting more expensive by the day☹️
as usual, Karl gives excellent presentations.
SERIES SUGGESTION:
(Just realized this is a year old! I will post it on the newest video like this as well).
The gun vs gun series is pretty interesting. I like the long format... although your stick topped table makes me cringe at the thought of lost springs :p I have some suggestions for video ideas or additional info to include.
Suggestion 1:
It would be cool to extend the series one step at a time. Make a G41 to its predecessor video and a G43 to its replacement video. This will help show product improvements and improvements and improvements and then clean slate or radical leaps. It also gives continuity of the timeline. Research is less per video since you have half of it done already :)
Suggestion 2:
Some discussion on the physical gun parameters, weight, calibre, bullet weight, speed, battlefield zero, effective range, magazine size, the shooting accuracy. The ongoing silly discussions about sub-minute-of-angle whatevers is boring and ends up as "my dad can beat up your dad discussions" however minute of angle of the gun from period reports would be interesting since this would give an indication to the viewer as to what was reasonable to construct at that time. Certainly if cost, durability, weight, metals availability etc were all non-issues all militaries would have preferred half minute guns! Knowing the requirements for the original trials gives context as to what was reasonable. If available the actual trials testing information for accuracy would be good to show the expectations of the higher ups in military vs. the manufacturers ability at that moment in time.
Suggestion 3:
Loadout per soldier and weight of loadout. Will give perpective on what the average guy had to haul through the eastern front. Also give the average soldier body weight for comparison. Could do a dress up comparison if you have the gear or reasonable analogues.
Suggestion 4: A bit of manufacturing background. This is like this because of metallurgy not being known, quality of metallurgy not being good, tolerances being poor. People generally barely understand modern manufacturing and have a hard time putting themselves in the shoes of a 1943 german factory foreman.
Suggestion 5:
A similar series on the ammunition. This cartridge led to this one, materials, metallurgy, speeds, weight, loadout per soldier, firing examples, dates to create an uninterrupted timeline. I realize this would be a few episodes of very similar ballistics but it would then highlight the quantum leaps. Perhaps go back as far as the last muzzle loader? Or maybe from round ball to minet then up from there.
Finally:
If you decide to do a timeline series it would be helpful to have a graphical to-scale timeline shown during the video with a few major history points on it. By showing it the less educated viewers would see the context easier and the more educated would see the relations between this item and the items they already know more about even if they are 4 steps away. Could make expanded sections for WW2 if more space is needed but keep it separate to keep the scale consistent.
Finally Finally:
Given the current situation in the world and cancelled events etc. Perhaps you would like to expand your German series' and do similar French ones. Since you have access to a colllection and its pretty darn complete it is ripe for the picking :) If you have several German timeline series episodes made you could do French vs German at this time period comparisons. The French and Germans have been mortal enemies since... forever... i doubt most Americans know how far back it goes. Each side has kicked the other and have often made decisions for the expressed purpose of beating the other. It has been a long-game goal even after revolutions and major political changes. They drove each others development and this dragged the technology as whole and firearms especially upwards. It not only influenced the design but also influenced gun making industries around the world.
So many ideas, got on a roll. Hopefully you find some ideas helpful. Maybe some viewer polls could help sort through these ideas. :)
Very informative and useful video. Nicely done!
I remember reading that they didn't want a gas port on the G41 because in the case of it being built by prisoners, they couldn't intentionally not drill the gas port.
While this wasn't the reason originally, this actually happened. A lot of late war german equipment was build by prisoners. Rifles wereno exception and thus were also sabotized in this manner.
You explained them well, many thanks for showing us, cheers.
Great vid! I wish we will see more of such rifles comparations
I like these comparison deep dives. Thanks Karl!
Great collection, thanks for a sweet video.
Very nice work Karl, hope to see more content like this :)
Great episode Karl! More like these please.
Karl, great vid completely worth the patreon support.
great job explaining. easy to follow & digest.
Both are beautiful weapons; it's surprising to hear they weren't made to last. Three years ago, I bought a World War II Garand that still fires well though it was re-barreled once during its long service life.
I love how he mentions it was a nightmare to clean on the eastern front but honestly, a military issue AR is still more obnoxious to clean to me, based on experience. A M4 will legitimately freeze up solid in low temperatures as well, unless you omit lubricant all together but shooting dry can cause issues as well.
Great educational video, keep it up!
Great video Karl. Thank you
Excellent video! Thank you.
Great stuff Karl! Thanks!
Excellent tutorial Karl...
Then war were declared
Amazing! Nice vid.
Like these videos! Nice “period correct” radial airplane engine sounds at time slice 8:28...
Finally! Read about the G41, but I've never seen one.
Great video, thank you!
I really like these, please do more
Outstanding video.
I like this. I'd like to see more of Karl doing these sorts of videos. Then again, I'd like to see him and Ian do these together and really discuss how a given firearm is better than another in the field vs. on paper. Because they don't agree on everything and it would be interesting to here both of their takes.
Extremely interesting; I inherited a G41 from my grandpa, who brought it back from the war. Crazy bang system... Thanks for the informative video. It had its stock broken in half in order to fit in his footlocker, so it's definitely not in as good condition. I did fire it a couple times with some 1940's era ammo for, uhh, scientific purposes. And grins :) (not to worry folks, I made sure it was cleaned afterwards in case those primers were corrosive)
Thank you karl, I found it really interesting.
Question regarding G43 longevity mods.
You added a rubber buffer to absorb the last movement of the system. Good Idea. You added a washer to the spring to take up the slack between the spring and the bolt carrier. Good idea.
I had one more idea depending on how fragile this is. Instead of a washer perhaps a soft metal plug on the end of the spring at the bolt carrier? This way you can take up the slack and have a softer metal and potentially a larger contact patch with the bolt carrier group. Depending on the amount of room you might be able to incorporate a rubber absorber there too.
I like this long format comparison series. You should cross link with Ians videos since between the two of you you cover the guns very well. Him more historic development and mechanical function and you on the historical usage, the how it functions, and practical use :)
around 00:17:00 "you put the flaps in... i just screwed that up, the flaps went out" lol
Very interesting! Thank you 😃👍
Overcomplicated and a nightmare to maintain? It's German, isn't it?
Well, G43 doesn't really seem to be either, it's actually quite simple and its only real design issue was being overgassed, everything else was manufacturing quality, but you can't really judge the design itself by that, especially since german industry in 1944 and 1945 was literally getting bombed to the ground.
So would a G41 with a G43 BCG be completely operational? Would the opposite be true as well?
Pretty much, with the exception of a scope and charging handle side. Without a scope, yep.
@@InrangeTv was the G43 BCG the thing that failed the most often (due to the lower strength of the stamped components)
or where there others parts of the rifle that also wore out equally quickly?
and if it was the BCG would have been possible to "upgrade" or "fix" the rifles at a later time by replacing the Stamped G43 BCG with a Milled BCG like on the G41 (and modifying the gas system to not be as overgassed) to improve the service life of the rifles? (lets say if the Germans won the war and wanted to keep using the existing G43s instead of replacing them)
or would other parts of the G43 have failed anyway to the point where it would not be worth trying to fix them.
Very good comparison.
Man I used that G41 and scope combo quite a bit in Red Orchestra 2! Probably as close as I'll get to having one in real life.
Good job dude
Thank you for the history.
Excellent Demonstration well done
When I heard Karl said Flapper Lock, I immediately thought of when Ian addressed the flappers as "Bunny Ears"
Using a knife to point at the details because there's some strange patent on using any plastic pointers in a gun video
Cant wait to watch when i get home
Man Déjà vu! In the last two weeks I’ve been working/shooting with both of these rifles....it’s great to see more content on these old German girls!👍
Well man, post some video!
Ye, it's really Forgotten Weapons like.
I was expecting some shooting, but still a good episode.
Actually it's Karl like he doesn't do this type of video as often but it's definitely uniquely his style. Check out his Old West series
I’d be interested to see a Johnson v. Garand video.
Awesome vid. I really like the G43.
I also have a G41(W) with all matching numbers except for the miss-matched blast cap that screws on the end of the barrel. I have been told that many are miss-matched because soldiers used to clean these by soaking them in a bucket of kerosene and were mixed up with other rifles. Have you ever heard this story? I have also swapped the bolt assembly on my G41 and G43 and they do fit just as you demonstrated. Also have you ever disassembled and then reassembled a 1945 manufactured G43 in which they deleted the latch that locks the bolt, talk about a challenge!
Hey karl do you have any recommendations for G43 stock repair? my original one has a massive split in the wrist and I don't have many local shops that can take it on. The stock on yours is fantastic.
New camera? The close and far focus seems to be extremely different than I had expected.
Do you guys have unmodified Saiga 308? How is it compare to other SA rifle?
My uncle Ed brought a G43 back from WW2. Unfortunately (ouch!) he "sporterized" it! Mainly cutting the wood. But...he used that rifle his whole life for deer hunting in WI, even during arctic like conditions, and as far as I know, it never failed. I shot it, and it was nice, reasonably accurate. After he passed away, I tried to get it from my aunt, to try and restore, but she wanted $800 for it at the time, which I thought was too much. After watching this, I realize I didn't know enough. My uncle shot the rifle very little, but he did keep it cleaned and lubed, so, it was reliable. It always fascinated me.
Do you use Apfeltor's kit or is there another one out there?
I’m four years late to the conversation but I just acquired mine. It has the Walther markings with a laminated stock and a shiny varnish. My question is about the varnish. Would these have been varnished or was it applied after the fact?
I'm curious about the knife. It almost looks like a Kar98k bayonet that has been set up as just a knife, but not quite.
What do you use for a buffer on the rear of the op rod in the G43 gas system?
mud test for the G43?
Also would like to see a video of Karl breaking down the SVT
Where did you get the rubber buffer at? And what size washer did you get? Please tell me. Thank you
I get a feeling that the people who designed the vz58 saw this rifle. Simplified the whole bolt/carrier and recoil spring for the end user while changing the locking. system.
The VZ58 feels like the baby of this and the AKM. I love the VZ and wish that we had more importers for it for the US.
You may have answered this before, but what kind of knife is that?
TheChad138 I believe that is either a grabenmesser or a kampfmesser. It could also be a grabendoch.
When you have a closer look to German trench knives, you can clearly see that they are descendants either of bayonnets or german hunting knives called ,Nicker'.
quite a good comparisson video here, Karl, but it always bugged me about this type of rifles and bolt actions - what wood was used in manufacturing process? Because density and quality of this material can affect the rifle's life span in the long run.
Awesome!
18:32 gah that's horrible, it's like a nightmare. Those flappers seem sort of dodgy too, compared to a rotating or tilting bolt anyway.
25:45 interesting note there. I remember one of the piston ARs tested in one of the IV8888 meltdowns had the same issue.
On the other hand though, some guns intentionally leave a space there to allow the op rod to accelerate before impact to ensure reliable opening of the bolt
@@mw4222 or to allow the op rod and piston space to expand with heat without pushing the bolt out of battery. That piston can get pretty hot, so in some designs you may have to account for the op rod changing length by a millimeter or two.
What knife are you pointing with and were can I buy one?
The more I see this Walther design, the more I'm convinced is actually a Short-Stroke Gas piston system, but the piston is wraped around the barrel, with the 'nose cone' being the gas-port analogue.
Short stroke gas trap/bang system
You guys should do a series on What Would Mikhail Kalashnikov do
What model number has the dagger?
Karl, challange.
Garand and G43 on the clock against each other for 20 rounds of ammo. Is it faster to change a magazine once or to change a clip twice?