0:34: 🔋 Understanding battery health and lifespan optimization with Professor Howey. 4:25: 🔋 Challenges in measuring battery health using models and limited parameters. 8:13: 🔋 Advancements in lithium-ion battery technology have led to improved performance and longer lifespan, especially for smartphones and electric cars. 12:14: 🔋 Factors contributing to battery degradation include SEI layer growth, particle cracking, and lithium plating. 16:09: ⚡ Factors affecting battery degradation: usage frequency, cyclic aging for daily drivers, and calendar aging for occasional users. 20:03: 🔋 Factors affecting battery capacity include algorithm changes, physical effects like ion stabilization, and potential capacity recovery over time. 24:01: ⚡ Effects of temperature on battery health and charging speed. 28:03: ⚡ Challenges in predicting battery life due to usage and population variability. 32:02: ⚡ Impact of variation in battery pack over time due to divergent behavior and limitations by the weakest link. Recap by Tammy AI
Spectacular content, very useful insights by Prof. David, please keep future podcasts longer and allow the speaker to present more slides. Keep up the great work.
I agree great content but he bangs on so much about degradation when he could be saying we maximise power, amps, volts and #Value. When pushed with a simplistic question he talks about calendar aging which is really technology shift. It's all very confusing and "academic"
Hey there, Digitalwallis, thank you! We think Patrick should simply talk to Prof. Howey once more! We received great feedback emails already. Any questions for next time?
@@batterygeneration Sorry You asked for it Is there a charge curve Temp vs Chargerate for LFP. What is the safe Rate for a LFP Pack with subzero Temps and whats the impact of Ytrium.? Is there any Chance to recover a Battery capacity with some fancy charge discharge cycles? Is there any other way to messure the SOC of a LFP as with Voltage, some spectral impendance Mesurement. May be the relation of Ri between two different Frequencies? I mesured some effects in that direction but my tools in my Garage reach only 2GHz, it seam to happen at a higher Frequency.
Thanks for such a nice podcast. It would be nice to hear more about standalone battery (grid connected) application. The one-million pound question, life time Vs revenue. Usage in particular grid services Vs degradation and impact in projected revenue. It would be really interesting to hear more about Prof. Howey model and how it can be used in the industry for forecasting revenues.
My samsung zflip5 has battery protection mode on and limits the max charge to 80% and min charge to 30%, like my 2015 Tesla model S which has a similar charge cycle, the phone should last similar to my 9 year old car that can easily do 400kms on a 95% to 15% drive. 98% if the time my model S is charged to 70% and does not go below 30% before charging.
What happens with phones is so entirely different...I believe there is NO intuition to be derived, nor value to be had, from comparisons between information processing at 3v DC on a circuit board where the load is in mill-Watts, and mechanical load (hundreds of volts and hundreds of kW) Alternating Current in the motor of an EV.
Question: will lithium EV battery packs swell with age eventually, regardless of how they are used or stored? Or does this happen only when the battery is not used for a long time?
I need a battery that can perform at -20C to 150C with a voltage curve mostly flat. My circuit runs for 20 minutes at low temperatures. Is there any way to correct this? I fire an actuator at the end of day two at 150 mas. Currently using CR2 batteries from Duracell and other. Failing at low temperatures.
The more that I hear about the very short life expectancy of modern phone batteries, the less I feel inclined to modernise my phone. It's ancient Nokia 6230i, and I have never had the need to use a phone for anything other than SMS and phone calls. (I use a tablet for more functionality.) That old Nokia is still on its first battery. Sure, it needs recharging a little more frequently, but it still runs for about 5 days per charge if I leave it running continuously. I did buy a spare battery, years ago, when the phone became 'obsolete', but it showed significant degradation within about a year, so I returned to using the original battery. My conclusion is that battery durability is probably being sacrificed in pursuit of higher capacity in smaller cells, and in pursuit of lower manufacturing costs.
@@mikejoseph425 sorry not familiar with that one but most of not all of them have a service mode you can access to do the battery degradation test. Try googling for those instructions.
As someone dogging the hell out of my EV on ride shares, I'm testing out the theory that consuming energy between 70-30% range leads to less battery degradation (40 kWh on a Model S/about 124 miles usable range before recharging back to 70%) and using a total of 258 miles per day. I'll post the results after 5 years.
Would like to know which chemistries prefer which charging strategies. Tesla says to charge their LFP packs to 100% but feel it's more so because of the flat voltage and therefore low confidence in predicting the SOC. Are they telling people to lower the pack longevity to improve the consumer experience? ie. flat battery @ 10 % and a tow truck..
I'm inclined to think so, yes. When the LFP batteries were first introduced in 2021, they didn't have the 100% charge recommendations and had a lot of users get stranded at 10% or 5% SOC. They realized that it was a BMS calibration issue where the car wasn't able to accurately predict the bottom of the pack. After a few weeks they introduced the 100% recommendation once per week, which seems like a compromise between battery longevity and BMS calibration accuracy.
@@ManuNarang @TechnoMonkeyFarm They could think of a much better way to determine the moment when the battery is down to 80% of its DoD already, when it is down to 91.3% , when it is down to 95.1% and when it is already below 97% discharged. For the LFP, for discharge current approximately 0.13-0.15C the moment when voltage changed from 3.2V/cell to 3.199V/cell will be 80%DoD, from 3.15V to 3.149V - 91.3%, from 3.1V to 3.009V - 95.1% , from 3.0V to 2.999V - 97% used up. Of course these border voltages will be lower with discharge current increases but that's not a problem for BMS to take corrections into account depends on current at that moment. And also there is not a problem to take into account total quantity of cycles and calendar life as well. (with age/cycles the capacity will fall, the IR rise so %DoD vs voltage vs current will change but that all is possible to put into formula mathematically , based on tests data.
There can be a lot of variability in battery cells. I bought 2 electric toothbrushes. One battery (Panasonic cells) died after 2 years 1 month. The second one from the same pack is still working after 8 years.
Oh jesus! .... and what can we extrapolate from that? The batteries were from different OEMs in China? FFS get a grip and see the bigger picture! Some people think £100k on a car is Value for Money and others can't pay their electricity bills! 70 million electric toothbrushes and 70 million mobile phones are diddly squat, 700 thousand EVs (now in the UK) is a renewables storage bank the size of two nuclear power stations.
#ExpletiveDeleted! Right so all your academic and you haven't yet sussed remote monitoring of in the field installations using IoT. And the level of intuition you are building for grid and EV batteries is based on your experience of a mobile phone you charge once a day! What software would you use to model 1MWh of battery storage? Head room discussion was rubbish. 22 minutes in and we are just now talking about temperature management in wine coolers.
0:34: 🔋 Understanding battery health and lifespan optimization with Professor Howey.
4:25: 🔋 Challenges in measuring battery health using models and limited parameters.
8:13: 🔋 Advancements in lithium-ion battery technology have led to improved performance and longer lifespan, especially for smartphones and electric cars.
12:14: 🔋 Factors contributing to battery degradation include SEI layer growth, particle cracking, and lithium plating.
16:09: ⚡ Factors affecting battery degradation: usage frequency, cyclic aging for daily drivers, and calendar aging for occasional users.
20:03: 🔋 Factors affecting battery capacity include algorithm changes, physical effects like ion stabilization, and potential capacity recovery over time.
24:01: ⚡ Effects of temperature on battery health and charging speed.
28:03: ⚡ Challenges in predicting battery life due to usage and population variability.
32:02: ⚡ Impact of variation in battery pack over time due to divergent behavior and limitations by the weakest link.
Recap by Tammy AI
Wow, thanks!
Great timing with the timing
can't see your title "measuring battery state of health"?
Spectacular content, very useful insights by Prof. David, please keep future podcasts longer and allow the speaker to present more slides. Keep up the great work.
Thanks, will do!
What an incredible Podcast concerning lifetime of a battery and parameters to determing the degradation.
I agree great content but he bangs on so much about degradation when he could be saying we maximise power, amps, volts and #Value. When pushed with a simplistic question he talks about calendar aging which is really technology shift. It's all very confusing and "academic"
That would be great if you could also have an uncut and uncut version i think some points weren't shown to the end
Hey there, Digitalwallis, thank you! We think Patrick should simply talk to Prof. Howey once more! We received great feedback emails already. Any questions for next time?
@@batterygeneration Sorry You asked for it
Is there a charge curve Temp vs Chargerate for LFP. What is the safe Rate for a LFP Pack with subzero Temps and whats the impact of Ytrium.?
Is there any Chance to recover a Battery capacity with some fancy charge discharge cycles?
Is there any other way to messure the SOC of a LFP as with Voltage, some spectral impendance Mesurement. May be the relation of Ri between two different Frequencies?
I mesured some effects in that direction but my tools in my Garage reach only 2GHz, it seam to happen at a higher Frequency.
@@digitalwallisgreat questions. Can we do the interview as a group?
Thanks for such a nice podcast. It would be nice to hear more about standalone battery (grid connected) application. The one-million pound question, life time Vs revenue. Usage in particular grid services Vs degradation and impact in projected revenue. It would be really interesting to hear more about Prof. Howey model and how it can be used in the industry for forecasting revenues.
Great suggestion!
@@batterygenerationhe hasn't got a model...he knows a thing or two but you didn't ask enough or persue like a terrier!
Would you be willing to share the slide show that was occasionally shown in the video?
Nevermind I found it!
drive.google.com/file/d/1jGxoie5a0ukvlrg63n6AnTnT3uSq9VVD/view
Nice discussion
My samsung zflip5 has battery protection mode on and limits the max charge to 80% and min charge to 30%, like my 2015 Tesla model S which has a similar charge cycle, the phone should last similar to my 9 year old car that can easily do 400kms on a 95% to 15% drive. 98% if the time my model S is charged to 70% and does not go below 30% before charging.
What happens with phones is so entirely different...I believe there is NO intuition to be derived, nor value to be had, from comparisons between information processing at 3v DC on a circuit board where the load is in mill-Watts, and mechanical load (hundreds of volts and hundreds of kW) Alternating Current in the motor of an EV.
Question: will lithium EV battery packs swell with age eventually, regardless of how they are used or stored? Or does this happen only when the battery is not used for a long time?
What should telecom operators in sites areas where there are no public grid?
I need a battery that can perform at -20C to 150C with a voltage curve mostly flat. My circuit runs for 20 minutes at low temperatures. Is there any way to correct this? I fire an actuator at the end of day two at 150 mas. Currently using CR2 batteries from Duracell and other. Failing at low temperatures.
Run some wire - put the battery outside in the warm unless you are in Antarctica in which case keep the battery warm. Take heat of the mix.
With those specifications the project needs to be cleared by the relevant authorities.
The more that I hear about the very short life expectancy of modern phone batteries, the less I feel inclined to modernise my phone. It's ancient Nokia 6230i, and I have never had the need to use a phone for anything other than SMS and phone calls. (I use a tablet for more functionality.) That old Nokia is still on its first battery. Sure, it needs recharging a little more frequently, but it still runs for about 5 days per charge if I leave it running continuously.
I did buy a spare battery, years ago, when the phone became 'obsolete', but it showed significant degradation within about a year, so I returned to using the original battery. My conclusion is that battery durability is probably being sacrificed in pursuit of higher capacity in smaller cells, and in pursuit of lower manufacturing costs.
Simple question, how do I measure the health of my EV battery
What EV do you have
@@stepanchenko Jaguar I Pace
@@mikejoseph425 sorry not familiar with that one but most of not all of them have a service mode you can access to do the battery degradation test. Try googling for those instructions.
As someone dogging the hell out of my EV on ride shares, I'm testing out the theory that consuming energy between 70-30% range leads to less battery degradation (40 kWh on a Model S/about 124 miles usable range before recharging back to 70%) and using a total of 258 miles per day.
I'll post the results after 5 years.
I want to know about Lead acid batteries :(
No you don't. They are too heavy
Would like to know which chemistries prefer which charging strategies. Tesla says to charge their LFP packs to 100% but feel it's more so because of the flat voltage and therefore low confidence in predicting the SOC. Are they telling people to lower the pack longevity to improve the consumer experience? ie. flat battery @ 10 % and a tow truck..
I'm inclined to think so, yes. When the LFP batteries were first introduced in 2021, they didn't have the 100% charge recommendations and had a lot of users get stranded at 10% or 5% SOC. They realized that it was a BMS calibration issue where the car wasn't able to accurately predict the bottom of the pack. After a few weeks they introduced the 100% recommendation once per week, which seems like a compromise between battery longevity and BMS calibration accuracy.
@@ManuNarang @TechnoMonkeyFarm They could think of a much better way to determine the moment when the battery is down to 80% of its DoD already, when it is down to 91.3% , when it is down to 95.1% and when it is already below 97% discharged. For the LFP, for discharge current approximately 0.13-0.15C the moment when voltage changed from 3.2V/cell to 3.199V/cell will be 80%DoD, from 3.15V to 3.149V - 91.3%, from 3.1V to 3.009V - 95.1% , from 3.0V to 2.999V - 97% used up. Of course these border voltages will be lower with discharge current increases but that's not a problem for BMS to take corrections into account depends on current at that moment. And also there is not a problem to take into account total quantity of cycles and calendar life as well. (with age/cycles the capacity will fall, the IR rise so %DoD vs voltage vs current will change but that all is possible to put into formula mathematically , based on tests data.
There can be a lot of variability in battery cells. I bought 2 electric toothbrushes. One battery (Panasonic cells) died after 2 years 1 month. The second one from the same pack is still working after 8 years.
Oh jesus! .... and what can we extrapolate from that? The batteries were from different OEMs in China? FFS get a grip and see the bigger picture! Some people think £100k on a car is Value for Money and others can't pay their electricity bills! 70 million electric toothbrushes and 70 million mobile phones are diddly squat, 700 thousand EVs (now in the UK) is a renewables storage bank the size of two nuclear power stations.
#ExpletiveDeleted! Right so all your academic and you haven't yet sussed remote monitoring of in the field installations using IoT. And the level of intuition you are building for grid and EV batteries is based on your experience of a mobile phone you charge once a day! What software would you use to model 1MWh of battery storage? Head room discussion was rubbish. 22 minutes in and we are just now talking about temperature management in wine coolers.
subbed =]
When will this climate hysteria finally be over and when are we going to return to more sensible energy solutions again?