The Games that Humans Play | George Hotz and Lex Fridman
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • George Hotz: Hacking t...
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I’ve built elaborate railroad systems that connect villages in Minecraft. If I spent the same amount of time studying hyperloop tech who knows where’s I be in life. who knows where my character in Minecraft would be either. The village economy would definitely suffer.
@@IPH-1212 pillage the village
After 35 years of gaming, i'm diuscovering that most of these adventures are forgettable. But I'm not saying we should stop gaming...we should find a way to make these memories stick.
wow, lex has a really interesting perspective of nature, it sounded hopeless, or dead.
i kinda agree with george, that nature has it's beauty
for me it's more a harmony game that nature it's trying to show it
tbh, it's like going back to eden's garden, not chasing power (fruit of knowledge, lilith) and don't have to be afraid anymore, or have to chase something, just be, in harmony, full potential as we grow together.
I hate the argument against indefinite lifespan. There are sooo many things you could experience if you had the time. Move to a different country, learn the language, fall in love, have a family. Move to the Moon and do it again, then Mars, then beyond. I seriously doubt boredom would be an issue. We find meaning in relationships and experiences. Death does not provide meaning, only context.
Agree 100%
people come up with the craziest reasons to justify aging and death. if there was an anti-aging medicine.... they'd take it.
Everyone tries to construct an argument in their heads that makes them comfortable with not being immortal. Plus, immortality in entirely unnatural, so our memory systems are unfit for it. You wouldn’t be able to accomplish nearly as much as you’d want with your current memory capability.
@@IanBpa good point, though only conjecture, and same for me... But wouldn't you like the opportunity to find out? Maybe we would discover an optimal lifespan of 1,000 years. I'd be cool with that
"Death does not provide meaning, only context"
ok, that's a good quote
That was an amazing analogy by Lex, if you play through a game on the computer you can concern yourself with how to most efficiently earn as many levels and items as possible at the expense of exploring the game world, the dialogue and the music. Sooner or later you've got to put the game down or leave it because you've beaten it, same with life.
"We are a part of nature. Not apart from nature." - Charles Darwin
nature is not my mother nature is my sister
@@goyonman9655 My sister is an only child.
does lex have a cup of coffee, red bull, and monster in front of him?
All three at the same time to keep up with addy-George
I assume he has a very large bladder
The boredom argument is weak:
1. We experience plenty of boredom in our life as it is, and it doesn't make us want to kill ourselves.
2. There is so much to do in life, it will take a very long time to run out of things to do. So the boredom argument says "why play beyond level 1 if at level 10 the game will get boring?" - George makes the rational choice of sticking around to see the next fun levels, knowing he can quit any time.
3. If boredom is so unbearable, self modification is better than self destruction, take boredom out of your range of emotions, or modify this emotion to make it bearable (assuming you lived long enough for humanity to develop tech to do this, and you can be frozen until then if you want to escape boredom in the mean time, not that I think life will get boring this fast).
very well put.
i love how they disagree with each other and still be cool with it.
The idea that you need death to be able to value life sounds nice and poetic and I think that in some sense it's true; you often hear this from people with one foot in the grave, that dying has made them feel more alive but how often during our day to day lives do we actually reflect on our own finiteness? Maybe once in a while for a few fleeting moments. Most of the time we're already living as if we are immortal, continuing to think about our future without considering that we could die tomorrow or next week.
I disagree. We might not think about it directly or all the time but we do think about it. We’re always on a time line. We’re always trying to finish things by a certain time or certain age. We Have quarter and mid life crisis. If two people accomplished the same amount of things in their life but ones 50 and the others 30 we’re going to give more credit to the 30 year old. Because life is short and there’s only so much you can accomplish. I find myself being the most productive when I have the least amount of time unfortunately.
I think life may be a simulation; you might just need to defeat the “Boss” in your part of it in order to get to a different perspective. (Remember that whatever this is, it’s much more complicated than any simple video game, and the Boss can take the form of many things, such as participating in that race you have always dreamed of running , or finishing a book you’ve always wanted to read… it’s not necessarily going to be a stereotypical fight against an adversary)
*The key here is ACTION though; I find that if I do good things, then good things start to happen around me, and if I do bad things, my world starts to take a turn for the worse. Yet, if I do nothing... I am assured of nothing, but entropy & ennui.
Lex are you familiar with Alan Watts? George gets close to pulling back the cover of "the game" but doesn't quite get there. He's trapped in a different game and snubbing the games others play as if the one he plays is superior. 😃
George is so completely wrapped up in the 'I've got a hammer, every problem that I see is a nail' conundrum that he's trapped imo. His lexical suite (and therefore ability to internalize and tackle ideas) is so focused in computer science that he can't actually attack any ideas outside the frame of reference. Watch his livestreams where he's going through 'covid evidence'. He's got some interesting ideas/ways of expressing himself through this frame, but it's so stifling once you spend some time with his content.
Just for debate to Ryan and Seamalicious : I think the finiteness of life might not make a difference in how my life is, maybe it's because I'm still not rich enough to make ends meet forever. But what I truly think the issue is that we don't really *understand what makes our lives *meaningful or *curiosity filled, if we relegate it to the realm of science/psychology maybe find it until then we are just digging into an unlimited hole of questions and answers we don't really know much of. And maybe all of what Lex said is speculative. And coming to what makes my life good is that I have people to care about, to talk to, to do a job that I'm kind of good at. If it all loops back forever, then differing futures might unfold, I might not *just do that one job , my brain is always in perfect condition so who knows what else I can learn, and I might * not just love and care for the same people, they might or might exist along with me.
That's a weird and interesting perspective.
He is talking about how us humans are not looking enough into things which are outside of "status chases/economy games" and somehow you take that as him being trapped in a different game where he is chasing something else that has no more meaning.
Fun to think about.
Anyway, I agree he is arrogant and maybe does come out as a "snub" but that does not mean he is wrong with being disappointed with humanity, that's something everyone can see (even if it is poorly expressed here).
Consider this: the idea that death is good, originated in a society trying to cope with it's own mortality. Death makes us hurry up, it's the fear of missing out. Without it we can take our sweet time and enjoy life knowing that we'll probably get to experience most of what we want to experience, and we can do it calmly at our own pace, not driven by fear.
Lex's idea that without the threat of death our curiosity will vanish, is based on nothing but faith in the "death is good" ideology. Humans become curious before they become aware of death.
I'd consider the, if you want something done, ask a busy person addage.
Vast majority of us would not do well 1000 years of no real urgency. That said, I'm not championing death, but without a significant refactor to the human construct, I think Lex is (mostly) right.
@@greenie62 I'm pretty sure that people will still get busy, death is only one of many ways to miss opportunities. There is still business competition, science and invention "race" (the fastest gets the credit or patent), high personal standards and people who just like doing productive things. Many people also care about doing things right, even if they aren't busy (work ethic, caring about their reputation / job / customers, etc), and I don't think that immortality will make people care less about their job.
Also people will be (and clearly already are) aware of the potential problems of immortality, and will come up with all sorts of solutions. It doesn't take much intelligence to notice a huge behavior change, raise public awareness and offer solutions (for example develop a mindset of valuing an active and productive life, why have something 100 years later if you can have it now).
We need more perspectives like his.
Great conversation. I’ve been moaning for years that my biggest depression is that we are not going in any direction. It depresses me how many pointless jobs people do for nothing more than growing the economy for a smal percentage of people to profit. I would happily work my ass off everyday if it was going to help create a world where in the future everyone can have everything they need to survive without struggle. That’s clearly not the goal because people like Gadaffi get killed. Tesla gets suppressed. Etc. greedy people know they have a finite existence and want the most for themselves and don’t give a damn about the future, hence the ravaging of the rainforests.
be the change
This is an amazing clip. What an interesting way to view the world.
7:04 lol he has an answer for everything
With the current progression of biotech, neural networks, and AI, I think we’ll be able play the game Hotz is talking about sooner than later. Right now, we’re playing an MMORPG to keep us content with the fact that we don’t know how to play the game outside of the RPG.
The Game- spending your time thinking or spending your time doing. You choose! Your game!
I'm thinking about doing cow level.
Defense against the big nugget is a decent unifying game for engineers. The big nugget is a planet destroying asteroid.
Life on Earth: how can I die? I'm already dead.
George wants to live forever like wutang
"You are bites in god's computer."
god's still binary
Great snippet agree with choosing when to die, but Im not sure it's possible to know everything. I'd be satisfied with knowing some of the most fundamental things we still don't know.
The curiosity would not disappear with immortality, since you lack omnipotenz. You just gained the opportunity to learn everything but you still godda do it. When you know how to live forever, than you would start imagining endless life, but you would still have to actually do it. You need to kill the cows to progress the fastest, but you still need to kill Diablo after killing the cows.
The thing is, life in itself is meaningless. Until we decide for ourselves that meaning. So, he's not wrong neither is he right. That's the "game" he has decided to play.
lex question about why learn something if you won't die was very good
maybe just don't chase information, but completeness
It sounds like he's joking about immortality and versions of himself, but he's getting at real substance
.
His goal isn't to live forever; its to live longer. Then you spend the time you have added to your life deciding and still working on living longer.
This is the best 8+minutes of my life! x
SO FAR
I wander how many times in history men had the "same conversation".
Socrates wouldn't shut up about cow level, he really kinda obsessed about it.
The movie Zardoz comes to mind.
It's worth checking out with a young Sean Connery in red booty shorts.
Should the goal be to come as close as we can to divinity, and share that with everyone? What's the point of amassing the highest score (wealth) in the most unfair game we are all loaded into.. if you can't share it with anyone.. whats the point of having the answer to it all if you can't share it? Is it the control of the knowledge or the answer that sets each of us apart? What is to gain from the game of just controlling.. Setting the rules? Life is the most unfair game is it not? our hair.. our height.. our dna code already pre generated.. by lifes RNG.. who are parents are? The start of the story? How much you start out with.. how far ahead in the game you start out in.. the most unfair game is life. But if you play.. you just might find some enjoyment in the intricacies life offers. I try not to take it so personally or compare cause we are all going through it.. but each circumstance or the RNG you were given can shape the course and direction you take. Are the passions you have also RNG? Or summations of the experience? Are you born loving the color blue? or was the love you felt the summation of the experience of seeing it for the first time? I may not be the greatest at one thing but I'll strive to be the best me I can. Love the talks Lex. Don't beat yourself up too much I feel the weight of the way you explain how others may view or how the comments might be.
Resonate who you are.
Humanity has become a disconnected species. Indoctrinated from kindergarten to college, we are broken down and reassembled into obedient, docile members of a corrupted, degenerative society. Weened on endless propoganda our entire lives from all sides. Fed endless bread and circuses to distract and pasify. Critical thought is discouraged and even demonized. Only listen to the narrative presented and do your work. Divide and conquer pits us against eachother while the real crimes are ignore and the perpetrators walk free. If we are a simulation, it is a thought experiment on how power can corrupt. And how absolute power corrupts absolutely. Perhaps the best thing is for the mice to realize the maze they are in and the experiment come to an abrupt end. The world will heal itself, it doesn't need us to survive. But we need it. Humanity will never last as long as division prevails. I, for one, don't hold out much hope in a bright future. Take care.
You can't know everything, because the present is happening everywhere. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
oh you on that multidimensional shit I see. it's true, at least until we jump up to 5D.
I agree with George, i don't want to die as long as there is something new that can be learned. And yes, i don't simply accept that biology/nature decides, when my life has to end. I belief strongly that we are able to overcome that hurdle with a joint effort. The real problem there is that "joint" in my opinion.
I agree too, and thankfully the field of life extension has grown a lot recently. The "join effort" problem you're talking about is due to popular belief in the ideology that "some things are unnatural and therefore bad, also death is good because we wanted to cope with our mortality", if more people could see past the shallow arguments against life, humanity would dedicate a lot more resources to life extension.
“How strange nature does not knock, and yet does not intrude.” - Emily Dickinson
Nature intrudes sometimes... Typically invited but think Hurricanes, comets...
@@richardhorvatich7769 or are we the ones intruding? 🤷🏽♀️ and Nature is just being...
@@WokiesASMR we are nature.
heat, tornados
Start using your weak hand first... Learn every thing again, and imagine you got it right. What can be worse? Boredom ends where imagination begins...Tolstay thought it the desire of gods
"There is no secret cow level" HC lvl99+
Nature:
George Hotz: 5:35
If we don't have to fight time until death anymore we are free to fight other maybe greater issues.
I'm convinced that George is either an alien or an AI of unknown origin.
Cow level reference YES!!!
You got that too!
Then , we are the most complex thing that has ever existed in that computer.
at 7:00, its unfalsifiable to say that little hack George came up with has happened already and we're playing the game again with the same curiosity but set up so we never really die. This type of idea is eerily similar to Mal's idea in Inception that her world is a dream and the only way to wake up is to kill herself.
What if George is already immortal and is programmed to think he's mortal only to try and beat immortality?
Lol
They talk about losing motivation when you become immortal, but we already have the ability to build immortality, so why do we have any motivation right now?
All living things have a zeal for life.
Death is the great motivator of life.
@@fusion9619 you are actually still agreeing with my statement when you say that. Your dying motivated you to live. I hope you are in a better place now. Take care.
What if we had not 100 but 1000 years? Life expectancy is constantly rising. Your statement will still be right.
@@CurlyChrizz true, there wouldn't be the same urgency. However, time flys when your having fun. I agree that you would lots more time if you lived to 1000. But even I can say. I thought that I had all the time in the world when I was a teenager. Then, I blink, and I'm in my 50s. I guess it's just a matter of perspective. In our world, where life expectancy is an average of about 72 for males and 78 for females. We don't have a millenia to waste. Besides, you could get hit by a car tomorrow. I'm just saying that you don't know how long you really have. So make the best of it.
Trying to solve a problem we created by creating more problems. You are stuck in the grind.
Ever think what if there was nothing but nothing isnt even nothing if there is nothing when u get into that rabbit hole of thinking about life x
@Trent Michael k
@Trent Michael didnt ask for an essay irrelevant to what i said.
@Trent Michael yea nobody cares kid ur silly
@Trent Michael hush hush
@Trent Michael read what u said again.
Death is not a tragedy.
it's a romantic comedy
Humans are not responsible for anything they experience. Our Creator is the ONE who programmed our created MINDS which are much like an AI with a Voice.
"Stop playing these fake, human games. There's a real game here. The real game is .... Nature wrote the rules. This is a real game. There still is a game to play!" - Geohot
"If we can't learn to live together, then we will die together." - Jim Simons
"The planet isn't going anywhere, we are." - George Carlin
This guy is like a virgin, optimistic. Lex is reality, it gets dark accept it
Idk, seems to be a realist/rationalist to me
There is nothing realistic in the idea that death gives life meaning. We are curious and have desires before we become aware of death. Death forces us to choose priorities instead of living like we can have everything, so we feel a stronger need to accomplish our top priorities before it's too late, mixed with fear of missing out and guilt for not always behaving according to these priorities.
Reality is often dark and cold and unfair and all that, so it's popular to say "life is cruel", but it's not a hard rule that applies everywhere - life is cruel only in some ways, not in all ways.
@@potato4360 very well said.
@FeatherFiend well said.
I get why he wants to live forever, death is a disease that can be cured and we are well on our way to do so. what i dont get about people that say why do you want to live forever? is ignorance to me and half way depression. Is this life is to hard for them? so they are glad we eventually die and it is over? For me life is like a Leonardo da Vinci or Michelangelo painting, it is amazing to look at, you get the what the artist want to show you as a whole and it grabs you and pull you inn, then they show you the small secrets he has also hidden from you inn its art and ask you to find them. that is only the visuals, then there is the color combinations that pulls out the emotion you have, like listen to amazing music. So why not live long enough too get the full enjoyment of what this universe can give us?. And to finish off, if you belive inn God and belive he created the universe then you know this is his artwork, so why the hell dont you what to experience that to the fullest? and one life time is not enough. After all if you really want to know god, for who he really is the closest you can get, is to know the universe as that is him showing his soul to us and a gift too those that want to see it. this is why I also dont get way some religions go against science, some belive in the in the bible or their religious book which is fine (but way to simplistic for me), i belive inn what God wrote by himself inn the creation of universe and science is right now the only translator we have for understanding him and who he really is, and we just have to evolve enough scientifically, spiritually and humanly, to really see who God is. So yes i would like to live forever, to see the full beauty of this universe.
You realize what living forever means? It means everything loops and repeats itself for eternity. Does that sound like fun? You'll be bored to "death" after 10 seasons of your life...
@@TheTheode you make nice arguments and yes you are right that it will be from a finite source from a human container as you say, but it is a container that can evolve yet we probably will never fully understand everything since we are locked in our heads and our universe but it would be a hell of a ride, I would like to see more off, so too live for a few thousand to millions of years too see where we go would be entertaining.
I also believe with enough time we would develop like our civilization would similar to type 1 to 3 and as our civilization evolved our perception of our reality would was well. Think if you went back in time to the stone age and told them about black holes, quasars, cellphones, tv or computers my point is our perceptions of our realities has change a lot since then, and that ended just a few millennias ago, the progress has been slow until the industrial age then space age that was just 200 years apart and the speed is increasing substantially.
And my point in my pervious post, is if we live "forever" the we decide when we end it or not. We have the power over our own death and not "fate" as it is now.
Living today we find meaning in our own lives does matter if that life is thirty years or thousands of years, that meaning might just change more as you develop and grow and get other perceptions of you surroundings.
Humans are very diverse and the future we create is the bed we choose lie inn and that will always change as time passes.
Why won't/can't Lex gaze upon George?
he is in love :)
8:00 what if we've already removed that cheat code from our brain? 😵
How would you know that you have Larned all there is to know? There is no way to know that, EVER! Be glad we are not Qs!
Cow level reminded me to hit like
No way Lex knows about cow level hahah I remember that
"We are bytes in God's computer". Yet God so loves the world he sent his only Son.
and the religion named after the Son ignores his teachings the most.
oh, the irony
The simulation theory is the creation story for nerds
Humans (a lot of them) are obsessed and easily distracted with silly little non truly meaningful tasks and desires. Like a new haircut or your latest lipstick . Humans have the capabiliy of so much more but were often so distracted from either the truth or the future. Some of the smartest people out there are naturally smart. they dont think within the boundaries that humans have set. Most of those people are shit upon in history and even modern educational system
Throughout history I meant. The true visionaries were always targets of the current system in place. A lot of them were executed or burned at the stake. For some reason humans have a natural negative reaction to thing we deem impossible or unnatural to our current state. Of knowledge even. If its true and you want to know how its true you need to read a whole lot of shit. A whole lot of Americans dont like reading shit for some reason and so they sure as heck arent going to read THAT shit, that they already for some reason dont believe. Even though its right there in front of everyones eyes. We're too easily trainable. And a lot of people that think theyre untrainable turn to the other side extreme. Its not about that, were so caught up in petty differences and its probably the laughing stock of our galaxy. Weve eveloved SO much as human beings on this planet but still there;s this stupid meaningless hatered and pettyness. no wonder were not all invited to the Galactic ball so to speak. People are still too stupid . lol
why do I want to know everything ? turns out it is an attention deficit feature :)
Could it be possible that a high intellect high achieving brain, like George, takes life's hardships in a different vein than common brains?
It's how we react to the suffering.
The simulation is in your brain
😂
Lex, are you against improving your health and extending how long you live.
Using your logic would mean adding years to your life would gradually diminish and spoil your outlook on life.
This guy was never stuck in endless looping trip. Knowing you will love forever is the worst feeling there is. Immortality is hell, not heaven.
Doesn't heaven include immortality? Isn't the soul eternal? (I'm not religious)
I once had a dream where I was a mighty immortal god, and I honestly believed that this is reality and I am going to spend eternity doing everything I want to do, over and over again. It felt good!!!
Agent 47 would be u
Wyrd
The guy is idiotic and brilliant... Very frustrating....
Without civilisation there would be no art, music, AI or any advance in medicine...
Most humans alive today could not survive without technlogy and food delivery....
Most humans alive today could not survive without technology and food delivery....
the modern world.
if you're making a list I think oxygen would be on it
This guy is a little creepy to me...
I relate to him a lot :)
This guy would not survive nature... One winter....
The mutterings of men without wisdom declare, "I want to live forever."