Yamaha ReFace DX Synth - SonicLAB Review
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- We take a look at the FM Synthesis focussed Reface DX, one of the new Yamaha ReFace range.
its a 4 operator FM synth with 8 voice polyphony, twin effects and a phrase looper. 
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All the Refaces should have standard Midi connectors and an SD card drive for patch storage.
Great improvements. While we're at it.. wouldn't have to be that much bigger to have full size keys. Would like to see them release these as modules too. the interface/controls and sounds on the refaces are amazing.
They have standard midi through a breakout cable, but yeah...
The connectors mostly aren't a problem as far as it goes... XD
I wish i could save sounds on my CS so bad :,)
this actually sounds really good. nice, futuristic, very 'synthy'.
+Jeremy Leaird-Koch Said everyone in the 1980s :)
Dima Parachute Haha, fair point. Regardless, I honestly really like FM, and hear it in a lot of my favorite electronic music. It has the ability to be really punchy in the low end and retain a high-end crispness I appreciate.
+Jeremy Leaird-Koch thats the beauty of the dx it kinda fits into a bit of everythinh even metal
i like fm...amazing basses...ethereal leads...bells...plucks and totally weird drones...awesome!
Before he was famous
The only reason to buy a vintage synth is if it is purely analog. Why wouldn't you buy this instead of the original? It's digital like the original and is way more user friendly. Also it doesn't smell like mold and it doesn't weigh a ton. If you can't write music with 4 operators, you're making excuses for why you can't make music.
Exactly.
Fuck this. I'd buy the Arturia. Much more modulation and real time manipulation and plenty of people argue that 6-op makes all the difference. That's why the dx-100 isn't highly sought after - its 4-op
@@annother3350 the dx100 is usually more expensive than a dx7. At least here in germany.
@@konradhausmann6359 But doesnt Dx100 have less operators?!
@@annother3350 it was often used by detroit and dub techno artists like Juan Atkins (listen to his song "Urban tropics") and has become a staple. It was also used by Roger troutman for his talkbox sounds, runs on batteries and can be used as a keytar.
Just bought one. This is honestly an amazing synth for the price point. I honestly don’t get why people are so pissed off about it. It’s super convenient and lightweight. Definitely not my desert island synth or anything but then, again if you play synth you should definitely own a full-size keyboard if that’s an issue with it.
You always bring out the musicality of instruments you review Nick. This thing sounds great. Editing potential is the most exciting after spending head scratching hours in the 80s trying to make something usable on the original DXs.
I haven't read through the manual or anything, but on all the original DX synths, it's possible to copy the EG params from one operator to another simply by pressing the write button while editing an EG.
Although it doesn't seem like much, this new synth does do quite a few things that none of the originals could do:
-Each operator now has feedback. This was never possible before, where sometimes only 1-2 had it available, determined by the algorithm.
-Each op has it's own LFO depth amount for pitch. This was also never possible, and it was a global amount for all ops.
-The pitch env, much the same, can be different amounts per op.
-Lastly, MIDI CC is a huge thing for an FM synth. Sysex on the old ones was clunky, and would choke up with the BCR.
We can only hope this is the baby step for a much more fully integrated flagship FM synth in the future.
Cheers, Karl
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I guess I love cheesy fm sounds
There is nothing cheesy about sounds that DX was the only one that made those unique and legendary sounds....Those ballads of the 80's are nearly impossible to find even as VST over the years never would you find those DX sounds and if you find any they were very poor and few.......
So I dont know what is cheesy....
Like tell me Rolls Royce is cheesy because many rich people have it....
What is pretty is pretty..... Even if its over used...
Love those 80s sounds , that electric bass and the super lush Whitney piano sound ,the marimba and the harmonica
Cheesy? Nah, just warm beautiful sounds 😎. FM is good because its more well rounded than fizzy old analogue which all sounds the same
They should launch it as a module with all encoder knobs as your Behringer controller. So no minikeys and great sound and control.
Really appreciate the separate review. I liked the the initial video as well, I mean Bert is an entertaining presenter for sure, but here I feel I'm getting the objective look that is much more valuable to me as a potential buyer. Thanks!
In my opinion they are very expensive and the touch pads are not both fast and precise unlike dials. They could have embedded mod wheel style dials in place of the touch pads which would have made it faster and more precise while giving hardware feedback to the user which is really useful especially if you dont plan on looking at where you are putting your hands. It would have probably been cheaper than the touch pads too.
This review lead to a DX sitting on my desk. Agreed about the presets, but they make it easy to dive into creating your own, or save Soundmondo voices over them. Cheers.
Yes, you can save new sounds. 32 is enough for me. I can save even more on my computer with SysEx Librarian and Soundmondo.
surprisingly fun synth to work with. The FM is a refreshing change from subtractive synthesis. The looper is very easy to use, even with its limitations. Just sounds really nice, not a toy!
WHAT is so F-ing difficult about making a keyboard with a standard MIDI I/O/THRU ? Such a basic feature to be missing from so much of the stuff being made these days.
MrFrankthefink exactly! It's just 2 extra MIDI ports and a DAC. How hard can that be?
Though, this is a small keyboard series.
Most probably that were decisions made in the marketing department - which made the guys from R&D go facepalm as much as us customers. They don't want to make the affordable devices too good and useful because then less people will buy the more expensive stuff.
The one thing keeping me from buying them tbh
There was not enough room on the inside.
MrFrankthefink BECAUSE BUDGET SYNTH.
You guys need to stop complaining and judge it on its own merit, as an excellent sounding, compact synth
Now that doesn't make any sense at all, why release a new dx7 with 2 less operators, I don't get these companies, Roland also doing limited stuff that don't even reach the old stuff, and now Yamaha also releasing reissues that are worse than their old models 30 years later.
MessiahGaming1080p Not really. It has feedback on all 4 operators and it's 2 types of feedback for each. That's a huge improvement over the DX7. Otherwise it's limited in polyphony and other things, but the feedback features alone are way ahead of those in the DX line.
This has at least a handful of features that vastly improve on the DX7. Probably more than that. Either you didn’t read any information about it before that comment, don’t know anything about thenDX7, or you’re echoing whatever pretentious comment you read somewhere else. Probably all 3, tbh. Especially considering this isn’t even a “new DX7”. It’s a new synth entirely with feedback on every operator which is a first for FM synths.
This isn't a dx7. This is a highly portable keyboard, for hotel stays, for camping, or similar. In contrast to cp, yc or cs, its working principle is the dx one. Even extreme-small-body 6-strings have their niche.
Would you choose the Yamaha reface dx or the korg opsix?
Could you go into a little detail about the connection of the DX with the BCR? Was that particular connection with the controls established by default, or did you have to do settings on the BCR editor? Thanks.
Very curious about this myself. How do you set up the knobs to send whatever specific control message you want?
After years the reface dx is still one of my favorite synths for warm soothing sounds. Yamaha nailed it. So sad it went with crap touch controls instead of dials.
I love the reface line. they sound great for small keyboards. built solid. the keyboards feel great. and they are PORTABLE!!!!!!!!
Picked one of these up for £160 second hand - one of the best bargains I've ever had - gorgeous little machine and pretty easy to programme once you've spent a bit of time with it.
this was a great review, it's refreshing to see people go beyond the presets and try to push it into different territory. thanks nick.
very nice and fair review! I highly appreciate that Yamaha brings out an FM synth in 2015. Seems to sound very good, the integrated FX are certainly a blessing.
But I'm left wondering why they didn't bring FM to the 21st century with more storeable patches, real midi connections, much more hardware controls, more than 4 operators (the FS1R had 8), more than 8 voices. There would be so many ways to make this an attractive blockbuster.
Like this in the Reface series it's maybe a nice little retro gadget (for FM-novices), but IMO for that price it makes more sense to me to get a TX802 and SY99 together leaving you way more options and gives you access to the many classic patches that Nick talked about. The minikeyboard, that many criticized is not a major issue for me, though.
+Shimanski Beats I don't think I'd want to try editing eight operators on a keyboard of that size. Leave that to a module or something full-sized.
Indeed, for a small piece of gear such as the Reface, it's tricky to integrate an interface for editing 8 ops comfortably. As for the modules, I own the TX802 and the TX81z, and without a software editor, programming is not much fun.
My comment was meant more general on what Yamaha could have done with a new FM synthesizer that builds upon FM state of the art and adds some new developments. Of course, the Reface cannot do that, and was apparently not aimed for this either.
in my opinion they have limited the reface dx mainly for marketing purposes... probably they have a plan to release an advanced FM synth in the future with all the good qualities of the reface dx integrated with all the missing features (8 operators, dx7 retro compatibility, unlimited patches, regular keyboard etc.)
Obviously it will cost more, probably much more...
that's what I'd hope for!
Has anyone ever made an FM synth with knobs for every parameter? That would be something.
Fredrik W eurorack
"Common FM Synthesizer" app for Android :)
@@davidlewis1787 What modules would you recommend?
Point 45 takemis castle is a great start
There was a hardware knob board for the DX7 back in the day.
Just wow. This is the best modern digital emulation I've heard - absolutely beautiful and creamy and dramatic - particularly the expressive parts toward the end. For this price, I'm speechless.
Danny Peculiarbleeps FM synths are all digital lol
Haut Strange there’s also analog FM synthesis, but the synths that can do it don’t focus on just FM
I still don’t get it with Reface DX, the last Yamaha flagship was Yamaha FS1R, which was 16op and 88algo and it was released in 1998, so 17 years ago.
For me is this new Reface DX a drawback. Why make a devolution in technology, instead of evolution? :S
It's ok, I think I've long determined that if I were to get a DX7, I'm going to just plain get a DX7
The sound at 15:52 sounds dark, eerie and massive; I love it!
reminds me of ocarina of time's spirit temple
So you don't need a computer to midi map? Would it work with another midi-usb controller? Such as programming reface parameters to my midi fighter twister pots, for example?
I love it
I've pretty much ordered the DX on the back of this Demo. Couple of things to point out:
i) There are some beautiful Lemur templates being developed that give access to all the parameters (something not possible via midi) for a full hands on tweaking experience that does not compromise an external midi clock... I'm using an alternative MIDI controller via android in this track ( ruclips.net/video/sUsMAqwgppg/видео.html ) but the principle is the same - it's ambient nonsense all the way.
ii) It sends midi clock and can get small drum module ticking (think Volca Beats) and amplify it via its audio input and internal speaker - that's one spectacular mobile combo!
Hey, interested in those Lemur templates
@@elderchildren Hi There, I never got to them (hence the alternative controller and subsequent BCR templates). I'm sure you can still find them on the lemur library.
17:52 The old patches? I found these yesterday. He said that he programmed the old patches. And deleted all the twins. I suggest an instant switch to these (thank you for your channel and your videos @sonicstate )==> refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl
this is crazy. getting my dx now...
@@zackhartmann Yeah, do it. I got more than 4.000 soundfiles in *.sys format for my dx. Some are not cool but many are pretty cool. EDIT: Sorry I mean *.syx format of course!
@@sisterzzbro4215 do you know if there is a goos resource for recreating the old pss sounds? specifically those made by the ym2413 and ym3812 chips. I think these had only 2 operators, but not finding a ton of info on the different algorithms used by the original keyboards
@@zackhartmann Sorry no, I have only the source from Martin Tarenskeen from the link above. Maybe he knows if You send him an E-Mail. Good Luck!
@@sisterzzbro4215 no worries, thanks!!
In a world where FM8 is offering an amazing, deep and easy way to program FM synthesis (with 6 operators), unlimited patches, i was expecting from Yamaha something innovative, at least at the control section, to compete with this. The real power of FM showed when Nick hooked that BCR. 32 memories? 8 voice polyphony? 4 operators? No thanks. I'll stick to my DX200 for now...
Wasn't that interested in buying this until you made that lovely drone. Now tempted. Great review as ever.
Sorry for being a newb, but what are external controllers, and how can they interface with the dx? do you have a computer program to do this or is it just plug and play?
How much and where to get it please, a checked out at local guitar center and they don't have it
Google
Great as always. Seemed very useable when hooked up to that midi controller
Good review
I love this man’s brain when it comes to instruction and demo of gear. Thank you Sir.
The loop you made sounds very Trent Reznor. Especially when it gets detuned
The price you mentioned is almost $600 Canadian. Everywhere I look I see it for 500. Still too much.
Slightly detuned FM pads are my go-to in live's operator and since I'm moving towards a non-laptop setup this is EXACTLY what I needed. Awesome. Gimme gimme.
Yes, vintage patches can be loaded into the Reface DX. For info, go here: refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl/
Around 19:00. Sounds like Vangelis playes a mix of Bladerunner and Christmas songs. lol
"What's wrong with modulating the feedback?" Nick, you really should take a look at the MOD-7 engine in the Korg Kronos. It lets you go off road as much as you want. :)
I think the Kronos costs a wee bit more :-)
at 11:02 what is that sound? like off-key
what is PMD and how can I add on my midi keyboard? help!
your videos are a public service - there is so little in the way of thorough technical reviews or demos of music gear. the failure to connect with audience is so endemic in this industry that it's amazing most of these companies can sell anything at all.
Thank you for all the great videos!
sounds good, but I dont understand why yamaha dont use the old opl3 chips. it is far more complex than this engine, with lots of voices and operators, and stereo too.
Nick, you say "feedback" a lot when you mean "modulation". There is feedback on each individual operator (and you call that correctly), but when an operator works on another operator, it's just modulation. There is no inter-operator feedback on the Reface DX.
Hey Nick, are you changing cameras from under the desk there? You're editing on the go :)
Is it just me? This sounds better than all the fm synths out there.
could've be such nice synth even with 37 but full size keys :(
language Nick, splendid songs have been written in a “cheesy” style, hmm perhaps death growl fill your expectations ?
@sonicstate What is the midi controller you used on this one?
Behringer bcr2000
@@sonicstate blimey had forgotten about that thing...thanks for the reminder!
Operator amount be damned.. that sounds pretty badass.
RUclips gets horrible, too many ads..just to re-watch youtube videos.
Touch sensitive keys are always bad idea. Why not just use analog knobs or sliders?
I played one at my music store last weekend. I really liked it except for the data touchpad slider things. They are just awful. What was yamaha thinking here? Also the synth felt like it was worth about 300 not 500. The UI was laid out nice but the crap sliders just killed it for me. What a shame.
god i wish they would've thrown an oscilloscope on...
such a wonderful little synth with so big sound :)
Rubbish! Jezus Yamaha! Even my k2k of 50 euro gives me 96 osc's and there are only 32 here. Pfffff And you call that a slider? It's 2015!!!! Not bring me to the dark ages .... in 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 and yup we're half way there yet. Come on.
Wow you don’t know anything about synthesizers do you?
What controller are you using?
Behringer BCR-2000
@@sonicstate Thank you!
i have played on all of them. every single one of them are really cool and sound good. with that being said i still think the price is not justified.
I would agree slightly for the other 3, but with the screen on this and only this, its many times, maybe hundreds of times deeper than the others and a huge bang for buck, not overpriced at all.
It's a very interesting product, and I'll even include the current price as fair'ish *IF* and ONLY IF it was a 4 (or even 3) *full size* keyb.
Even coming out with a cheaper desktop-type module box that anyone can add to their preferred MIDI controller would be better.
heck, Yamaha could've been smarter and make a matching pair of at least 1 mini-key and 1 full size key controllers that could house these modules fit as embedded "expansion" modules that anyone could mix'n'match keyb sizes with module choices allowing many to buy a few modules or chain them and choose which to play through quick MIDI Channel selection or include some split/layering MIDI Chn capability in those controllers, etc...
ah well... :P
+Kosh Dukai Check out the PreenFM2 for an FM module. It's DIY, but TubeOhm are trusted builders of them if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself.
Well, it looks like Roland Boutique got the "here's the box, here's the optional mini-keys, your call to use both or just the module". That's what Yamaha should've done, IMHO.
***** I share your "synth tourism" opinion. These are Roland and Yamaha's attempt to reach a broader musically inclined audience riding their "classics" wave with a twist wrapped in a portable micro VA package, thus "tourism" applies perfectly :)
But, IMHO, that's really not a bad thing to do, *IF* done right. Both can profit from it, the well informed "tourists" with the availability and price(?) and the ones releasing these.
8 voice? Bummer
Will the other 3 units in the series get a review of this style? Mainly interested in the CP and other than non pro user demos/reviews Sonicstate is the only source of unbiased information on these newer synths.
This and a Beatstep Pro would go together a treat.
he KINDA looks like phil collins
This or the Opsix?
Opsix.
Sounds and looks a lot like my an1x
im starting to think that these reface from Yamaha are flying under the radar.... im very interested with the ambient vibes these guys are putting out
They’re all fantastic.
All are great, the DX is in another category because of its screen allowing for hundreds of things to control versus the others with a few pots and sliders.
By far the best DX video. Thank you!
i think this is a more interesting proposition than the CS reface, if only because FM synthesis in modern hardware is almost non-existent. in fact, this review makes me sorta want one...
"oi!"
yes yes, i see you, fs1r, sitting in my rack being utterly inscrutable without a computer. one day i'll actually learn you...
+aksen303 :) It's inscrutable even with a computer. I've owned mine since it was first discontinued, and it's still an enigma. DX7 programmers like to moan, but they don't know what real pain is...
+Aaron Swain Can I have a go please??
***** aksen303 I will say, if you have an iPad, getting Matrixsynth's editor for TouchOSC makes it nearly achievable, provided you can get it to work (requires The Missing Link OSC to midi translator box). Still - over 1000 parameters per patch! Just look at the screenshots...
www.matrixsynth.com/2011/08/yamaha-fs1r-editor-for-ipad.html
This not your 80s 4 Op synth. The bipolar feedback for each of the operators and much higher resolution of the DSP engine put it on a totally different league. For 265€ as I've seen it in some stores it's a killer synth period.
Now, if it was bi-timbral with 16 voices, it would be unreal!!!
What are you talking about,you really have normal size stubborn fingers/hands Nick.... :) And the Behringer BCR200 is a legend and it can be used for almost everything and is very the cheap :)
I'm frustrated by this. The quality of the sound from the Reface series is wonderful. I don't know if it is the DACs they are using or what, but there is this silky smooth quality to all of the keyboards. Really wonderful full and lush feeling, very clean, but not too digital-sounding. I like it.
But then I'm so frustrated by the price and that they decided to not really do anything innovative or give any real power to these new synths.
As I've said elsewhere, Yamaha produced the YM2612 chip in 1988. It was an 8-voice, 4 op, multitimbral FM synthesizer, most famously used in the Sega Genesis game console. It had no on-board effects of course, but it was almost as powerful as this synth *in 1988*, and was cheap enough to be shipped in game consoles... Why in 2015 did they not push the envelope and give us a really powerful FM synth, or make it a budget synth?
I'm excited for your review of the CS, because that is the only Reface that has my curiosity piqued enough to maybe buy it. It is again very limited, but something about the interface feels fresh, to me. The limitations feel like they'd be inspiring, rather than frustrating.
Good job, as always, Nick. Thanks.
those keys arent mini keys but mid size keys. its the price thats put me off.
Yeah it's pricey,but for me it's worth the quality of the sounds you can get out of it.It should be around 250€
this thing only holds 32 patches!! fewer operators than a DX7, cannot load patches from older synths, etc. what a flop.
I used to have a DX27, loved it. But I realised the NI FM8 had all the presets so I sold it. Shame this won't do older presets. Beautiful piece on the loop by the way.
+Alan Angel Same here. Had 4 Yamaha FM synths, sold them all for FM7, later FM8. Was hoping for more from Yamaha
+Stephanie McKeon you shoultve kept at least one of them. none of the fm soft synths have that solid punchy attack like the classic yamahas do. You can get real tight hits at any frequency to layer with audio drum samples. Cuts through any mix so well.
Very dissapointing that you can't load the classic DX patches.. Does it have the classic Basses from the DX built in? Bass 1 & 2 and how accurate is the E Piano to the original?
man. you do the best synth reviews on the entire net.
long enough to get through everything that NEEDS to be said and domed but also short enough because you're not fucking about talking bullocks.
do you yourself have your own channel with a review playlist?
I tried sonic state which I dig bit couldn't just get a play list of your reviews.
cheers.
I am curious to know what sort of external MIDI controller is being used. I have not used one with my own synths and wanted to know specific devices that can be used.
Dtronics DT-RDX-V2
Just found this video, and it's pretty amusing that you're using the BCR2000 to control the DX -- I'm currently in the middle of a project to control a YM2612 (six-channel, four-operator FM chip used by the Sega Genesis) using an Arduino, with a gutted BCR2000 interfaced with the arduino as the control interface. with the 4x8 array of knobs, and as many buttons, it's perfect for controlling FM synths! I just wish they still made them; i'm only using mine for this because the mainboard died on it and i intended on just switching it over to an arduino to continue using it for MIDI anyway.
Great review thanks Nick
This sounds nice, and the keyboard actually looks pleasant to use. However, given that the best way to access the FM capabilities in realtime is through another external controller, what can this do that one couldn't do with that same controller, a decent keyboard, and Ableton Operator?
Can I connect my drum machine thru this??
There’s an 3.5mm aux jack that you could just pipe it in through. Is that what you mean? Or you’re looking to run midi in?
@@ukaeyfvkfiayuvefyiu Midi..but I went on and sold it few weeks ago..👍
Taino Savage mine is coming in the mail tomorrow. Why did you get rid of it?
@@ukaeyfvkfiayuvefyiu Bought the Reface and the MicroKorg on hype and Impulse and had buyers remorse afterwards..Only because of finances..Both were great..I miss them but had to let em go..I have a Kiwa Spectra I'm trying to sell also.
Cheap sells more these days. I personally like it. Though I don't want to spend $500 for something so tiny. But it definitely sounds very good.
Beautiful patching as always... lovely sounding.
Same proportion & key number but with NORMAL SIZE KEYS - it would have been a hit!
Look at that screen! Shame they don't make one that samples like an ASR style synth...
nice review and demo - it is a cool unit in a small package
for patches you forgot to mention Soundmondo, a great little iOS app that you can save and load patches from the cloud on the go, perfect for a battery operated synth
no one else is doing that now except for Roland cloud and that's not free like Soundmondo
by the way, the BCR2000 can send Sysex to the reface and bring all the controls out. You can look up the and download the interface here ruclips.net/video/E8Xj1MQQvTs/видео.html thank you for the inspiration.
Mini keys is no problem. The dx100 had mini keys, although it had 4 octaves and more voice banks. Can you dump the voice banks via sysex.
Thanks. Great vid as ever.
Cripes between this and the Roland D-05, I could pair them to an M-Audi 88 and have both the D50 and DX7 library available on a fullsize semi-weighted keyboard with aftertouch - for a fraction of the price of a restored original (which I'd be white knuckling hoping a 35 year old kit didn't fail at the worst possible time).
Great review Nick. yes it is a shame that you can't control the feedback using the pitch EG or the LFO.
i am glad for mine and i think its sound great, but the data sliders is pretty bad, if Yamaha don't bring us a sound editor(for windows) when i will for sure make my own Editor :)
Anyone throwing a hissy fit over the mini keys needs to swallow that pill that this is not a DX7 homage. The DX7 was 6 operators and had 16 voice polyphony. the Reface has 4 operators and 8 voices.
Say, you know what DX had 4 operators AND had mini keys AND 8 voice polyphony?!
You guessed it, the DX100!!
amazing
I still own a Fully Operational DX21 that a Pal found in a skip in 1993 and sold to me for £29. The ReFace looks/sounds pretty cool but it doesn't sound as gritty and dirty as the older DX's.
I bought one a couple of years ago but I'm not getting much out of it tbh. I am not a tech person at all and won't be connecting it to anything. Thanks for explaining what it is capable of. I probably should have just bought an old DX7.