This is a very important tutorial, so many players are unaware of the significance of the 'drop loop' and the easy power achieved by harnessing this technique. Thank you James.
a 4.0 player that has played for 50 years. i have never heard or seen this concept before. this is a GREAT video. the shadow swing idea is a great way of breaking it down into workable pieces!!
Haven't had a clue about drop loop, tried at home, recorded myself and saw good results immediately! can't wait to try it at the court! You have been of great help James thank U!
There is something magical about closing one’s eyes when learning or modifying one’s inferior technique. It seems to almost block pre existing motor patterns and allow development of new, more efficient ones. Try it ! 🎾
Worked with OTI a few years ago and got some great feedback from James (also loved all of OTI content especially forehand). I have a decent serve developing and this tip definitely put extra pop on my serve. I hit spots on the back fence I have never hit! Love y’all!
Thank you James, really super-helpful advice. Off to the indoor tennis centre tomorrow for my weekly serve practice session - will focus on trying to add this missing piece to the jigsaw.
Toss has to be mastered to provide enough time to complete the loop or else you'll hurry the swing and won't get the loop. This is the most challenging part for me.
Thanks James for demystifying this movement in painstaking detail. Florian will attest that I started the OTI serve course about 6 years ago and have been trying to build this serve into my regular 4 hour active doubles sessions. I'm getting there but the change factor is painfully slow when you play competitive doubles regularly. A couple of observations. 'Elbow up' in the loop should bring the racquet down naturally. And unwinding from a shoulder rotation ( anti clockwise) will help the racquet swing out in the way you illustrate.. I try to build this into 15 min sessions before our doubles ( great fun with about 20 international partners). Hey, come across and see us one of these days. The coaches in our club are more interested in bringing young kids to higher levels in the WTA/ATP circuits, never using video .But my, can they hit those balls !.
A very important point to note that may not be obvious to some viewers - once you've reached the racket drop position, the up swing to hit the ball is a circular motion. It's not a straight line from racket drop to contact. The circular motion supinates your forearm(you should feel your forearm stretching outward). My serve had no power until I fixed this mistake. May be James could points this out this a future video. Hope this helps.
Yep correct, simply proceed with caution when supinating the forearm muscles just in case you overstretch them. otherwise...great point. thanks for the feedback Henry :)
Thank you for another informative video. I have a question regarding the dynamic orientation of the upper arm (the segment defined by the shoulder to the elbow) during the right to left motion, the loop, the elbow lead, and the extension to contact. By orientation I mean the relative position to the ground and the direction of the serve, as well as any axis of rotation. Your videos often present slow motion or ghost swing serves where the upper arm rotates about your torso in a relatively shallow orientation to the ground (i.e., forming a small angle). I find it difficult to then extend from that position. Slow motion videos (including in your lessons) show, however, that the upper arm is not so shallow during the loop created by the elbow lead. Can you please elaborate? Thanks again.
I have this problem (was initially highlighted with a very helpful online vid lesson with Greg). I still go on edge and pronate but my racket drop isn’t very deep and I still can’t fix it 😊 what I think I’m doing vs actual is always completely different when I look at the vid. Does the elbow position help facilitate the racket drop (I feel my right elbow tends to want to be more vertical with my forearm rather than angled eg elbowing someone behind you) which makes it harder to carry out the right to left movement 🤷♂️ will see if the tips in your vid help
Thanks for that but what initiates or is driving the loop? Is this all gravity and being driven by the body turn. Shadowing is fine but in a serve with the ball..What is given the loop speed. Thx so much
It's a combination of a few factors....#1: gravity, simply relaxing the arm from the shoulder down and letting the racket fall down and away from the body (providing the racket is moving in a right to left manner over the head)...#2: it's also being propelled down and away when the body begins to uncoil from the ground up. #3: leading with the elbow at the appropriate time also helps initiate that loop down and away from the body. Any more questions Ken just let us know :)
@@OnlineTennisInstruction hey thanks so much for that. Much appreciated. Sounds like I need a lesson or two. What initiates or powers the right to left movement? In pro players this seems to be a powered action. Is the elbow angle shortened or does it stay at 90. In a wip analogy it doesn’t seem clear if the pull back into the loop is initiated under power. Thx so much
Hi i observe that you are not bending back after tossing. if I'm bending my back after tossing should I still perform the elbow up & loop during shoulder turn at the time of going up to hit. Pls explain.
Hi James, I like your video but I have a question for you: when executing the racket drop your forearm stays above your biceps of the racket arm. However, when watching slow motion videos of ATP players and of WTA players, the arm (i.e. shoulder - elbow) is horizontal with the tennis court (which is perfectly normal) AND this is also the case of their forearm (elbow-wrist/hand) which is also horizontal but pointing in another direction. I am unable to understand how these ATP /WTA players can physically / mechanically do this. If I were to do this, I would need to break my forearm ... I am missing something... and I would value your input on this issue.
haha yes, i don't always wear tennis shoes when I film videos since I find Hoka's so comfortable. But obviously when I teach and play, the tennis shoes have to come on :)
A suggestion with all credit attributed to Greg Le Seur, place a small weighted object like gauze tape, electrical tape, painters tape, and tie with small string along tip of racket. This will allow you to feel the loop really easy but word of caution ⚠️ Go SLOW or you’ll either injure your arm or rip off the tape causing damage to dry wall like I did hahahah.
I am still confused on the concept of watching you hit the ball and staying sideways (which is what they say to do) yet how do you get the ball in the deuce court? Tha ks
Why are you always demonstrating that extreme over-bending the elbow? No good server does this, it’s commonly referred to as “fake drop” among instructors. As it puts the racquet into drop artificially instead of properly stretching the shoulder. I wonder if you have a reason?
but yes, you mentioned a right concept: streching. if you relax and stretch the shoulder, you let the stretch-shortening cycle to happen, leading to a fast contraction (internal shoulder rotation and elbow extension) after the drop.
@@thejohnnytapia123 Pro players keep elbow close to 90 deg bend, it gets to like 70 at max, but that's already a lot. Hand and racquet should stay farthest away from the upper arm to maximize shoulder stretching into ESR, which happens due to inertia and lever effect.
@@OnlineTennisInstruction Hello! In your demonstrations, you bend elbow almost to the end of range of motion during the movement over the head, and it stays in that position into the drop
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This is a very important tutorial, so many players are unaware of the significance of the 'drop loop' and the easy power achieved by harnessing this technique. Thank you James.
thank you for the feedback :)
a 4.0 player that has played for 50 years. i have never heard or seen this concept before. this is a GREAT video. the shadow swing idea is a great way of breaking it down into workable pieces!!
I follow a lot of tennis instructions channels. In my opinion, James's serve tips are the best and really helped my serve. Thanks you!
Haven't had a clue about drop loop, tried at home, recorded myself and saw good results immediately! can't wait to try it at the court! You have been of great help James thank U!
There is something magical about closing one’s eyes when learning or modifying one’s inferior technique. It seems to almost block pre existing motor patterns and allow development of new, more efficient ones. Try it ! 🎾
Great point I agree. Thanks James for taking one for the team and hitting those ice balls ! Superb instruction
100% ...closing your eyes when learning new technique is extremely beneficial :)
thanks for the feedback Jay :) certainly wasn't the most comfortable day for filming videos haha
Worked with OTI a few years ago and got some great feedback from James (also loved all of OTI content especially forehand). I have a decent serve developing and this tip definitely put extra pop on my serve. I hit spots on the back fence I have never hit! Love y’all!
Really great
Thank you James, really super-helpful advice. Off to the indoor tennis centre tomorrow for my weekly serve practice session - will focus on trying to add this missing piece to the jigsaw.
Excellent and super helpful as always!
Interesting. I play for fun. Never knew about this "loop". The wonders of making for a more efficient and faster serve never cease! Thanks for this.
Thanks for the feedback... All credit to Instructor Gregg Le Sueur for this concept :)
I been try all my life to do a loope on my serve you explain well I will try again thank you Buongiorno
I will practice this one tomorrow. Hope this will be beneficial in my recreational matches. Thank you coach..
Excellent, keep us posted on how it progresses :)
Your exercises are so helpful
Without a doubt the best tutorial that i have seen, about the mechanical process of tennis serv.
very kind words...thank you for your feedback :)
Best video on this topic. Thanks a lot!
Toss has to be mastered to provide enough time to complete the loop or else you'll hurry the swing and won't get the loop. This is the most challenging part for me.
Exactly the same in my case. I just realised how important is toss height to achieve time for controlled loop and serve.
Great Feedback 🎾👌 I tried to make it and immediately I had excellent sensations : more fluidity in the swing and free power thanks James
Very precise guidance. Thanks a lot!
Thanks James for demystifying this movement in painstaking detail. Florian will attest that I started the OTI serve course about 6 years ago and have been trying to build this serve into my regular 4 hour active doubles sessions. I'm getting there but the change factor is painfully slow when you play competitive doubles regularly. A couple of observations. 'Elbow up' in the loop should bring the racquet down naturally. And unwinding from a shoulder rotation ( anti clockwise) will help the racquet swing out in the way you illustrate.. I try to build this into 15 min sessions before our doubles ( great fun with about 20 international partners). Hey, come across and see us one of these days. The coaches in our club are more interested in bringing young kids to higher levels in the WTA/ATP circuits, never using video .But my, can they hit those balls !.
No Problem Terry :) 4 hour sessions sound very tiring haha...love the dedication! Keep us posted on your progress with this
A very important point to note that may not be obvious to some viewers - once you've reached the racket drop position, the up swing to hit the ball is a circular motion. It's not a straight line from racket drop to contact. The circular motion supinates your forearm(you should feel your forearm stretching outward). My serve had no power until I fixed this mistake. May be James could points this out this a future video. Hope this helps.
Yep correct, simply proceed with caution when supinating the forearm muscles just in case you overstretch them. otherwise...great point. thanks for the feedback Henry :)
Am saving this video until spring when snow is off the courts..........
excellent, keep us posted on how it goes :)
Thank you for another informative video.
I have a question regarding the dynamic orientation of the upper arm (the segment defined by the shoulder to the elbow) during the right to left motion, the loop, the elbow lead, and the extension to contact. By orientation I mean the relative position to the ground and the direction of the serve, as well as any axis of rotation.
Your videos often present slow motion or ghost swing serves where the upper arm rotates about your torso in a relatively shallow orientation to the ground (i.e., forming a small angle). I find it difficult to then extend from that position. Slow motion videos (including in your lessons) show, however, that the upper arm is not so shallow during the loop created by the elbow lead.
Can you please elaborate?
Thanks again.
I have this problem (was initially highlighted with a very helpful online vid lesson with Greg). I still go on edge and pronate but my racket drop isn’t very deep and I still can’t fix it 😊 what I think I’m doing vs actual is always completely different when I look at the vid. Does the elbow position help facilitate the racket drop (I feel my right elbow tends to want to be more vertical with my forearm rather than angled eg elbowing someone behind you) which makes it harder to carry out the right to left movement 🤷♂️ will see if the tips in your vid help
Thanks for that but what initiates or is driving the loop? Is this all gravity and being driven by the body turn. Shadowing is fine but in a serve with the ball..What is given the loop speed. Thx so much
It's a combination of a few factors....#1: gravity, simply relaxing the arm from the shoulder down and letting the racket fall down and away from the body (providing the racket is moving in a right to left manner over the head)...#2: it's also being propelled down and away when the body begins to uncoil from the ground up. #3: leading with the elbow at the appropriate time also helps initiate that loop down and away from the body. Any more questions Ken just let us know :)
@@OnlineTennisInstruction hey thanks so much for that. Much appreciated. Sounds like I need a lesson or two. What initiates or powers the right to left movement? In pro players this seems to be a powered action. Is the elbow angle shortened or does it stay at 90. In a wip analogy it doesn’t seem clear if the pull back into the loop is initiated under power. Thx so much
Hi i observe that you are not bending back after tossing. if I'm bending my back after tossing should I still perform the elbow up & loop during shoulder turn at the time of going up to hit. Pls explain.
Love it, great vid James!
Hi James, I like your video but I have a question for you: when executing the racket drop your forearm stays above your biceps of the racket arm. However, when watching slow motion videos of ATP players and of WTA players, the arm (i.e. shoulder - elbow) is horizontal with the tennis court (which is perfectly normal) AND this is also the case of their forearm (elbow-wrist/hand) which is also horizontal but pointing in another direction. I am unable to understand how these ATP /WTA players can physically / mechanically do this. If I were to do this, I would need to break my forearm ... I am missing something... and I would value your input on this issue.
Great tip. thanks.
thanks Kumar :)
Thanks James - Great video - Really helpful
Thanks Douglas for the feedback :)
Great
Well done James The VIc Braden GOAT
Great tip, thanks James
thanks Andy for the feedback :)
Really great exercise !!
thanks for the feedback :)
Cool wales, cool tutorial, both good, thanks yes enjoyed
Very nice. I think it's going to help me.
keep us posted Peter :)
Thank You
Good coach.❤
Well done you got a tennis shoes 🙌😀😎
haha yes, i don't always wear tennis shoes when I film videos since I find Hoka's so comfortable. But obviously when I teach and play, the tennis shoes have to come on :)
Why is your body bent when you make contact? Most players straighten their bodies upon contact.
excellent clinic
thanks for the feedback :)
A suggestion with all credit attributed to Greg Le Seur, place a small weighted object like gauze tape, electrical tape, painters tape, and tie with small string along tip of racket. This will allow you to feel the loop really easy but word of caution ⚠️ Go SLOW or you’ll either injure your arm or rip off the tape causing damage to dry wall like I did hahahah.
yep that's a great one :) and 100% go slowly haha
You are great . Before you adviced loop with water bottle . 👍👋
thank you for your kind words :)
It's almost like winding up with the non hitting face of the raquet toward the ball, no?
Thanks coach
no problem :)
I am still confused on the concept of watching you hit the ball and staying sideways (which is what they say to do) yet how do you get the ball in the deuce court? Tha ks
String face orientation?
Maybe you’ve read or heard, “The strings send it; the swing path bends it. “
2:24
Please make video with a student.
like
Why are you always demonstrating that extreme over-bending the elbow? No good server does this, it’s commonly referred to as “fake drop” among instructors. As it puts the racquet into drop artificially instead of properly stretching the shoulder.
I wonder if you have a reason?
he clearly said not to force it, but to let it happen and let the weight of the racquet do the work. also, pro servers flex a lot at the elbow
but yes, you mentioned a right concept: streching. if you relax and stretch the shoulder, you let the stretch-shortening cycle to happen, leading to a fast contraction (internal shoulder rotation and elbow extension) after the drop.
@@thejohnnytapia123 Pro players keep elbow close to 90 deg bend, it gets to like 70 at max, but that's already a lot. Hand and racquet should stay farthest away from the upper arm to maximize shoulder stretching into ESR, which happens due to inertia and lever effect.
What part of the swing are you referring to? During the right to left movement over the head or later during the racket drop?
@@OnlineTennisInstruction Hello! In your demonstrations, you bend elbow almost to the end of range of motion during the movement over the head, and it stays in that position into the drop
you wear so much without tennis shoes can't see your arm movement.