Campagnolo DITCHES THUMB SHIFTER | Wireless!!! | NEW SUPER RECORD
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Documents filed with the FCC (The body governing radio communication within the United States) suggest that Campagnolo will introduce a wireless groupset soon. Some of the literature is blocked from public view for confidentiality but there is enough in there to suggest this is happening.
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I went mechanical 12 speed Record this year for the ergos with thumb shifter. I have enough electronic schlock. It's unnecessary and unwanted as to me a bike is elegant in it's mechanical simplicity. I have changed one rear derailleur cable in 10 years recently on my 10 speed Campy. My phone being charged before a long ride or my Garmin watch or Power Zero pedals is enough thank you. Don't need or want every single thing I use today to have an electric motor and an app.
Yeah, same on me and I am a quite nerdy man working as an IT professional.
When I return from a bike ride, I allready have to charge my bike computer, my smart phone and my rear light, please not another item!
"Thank you my friend for notifying me, really would like to go on a bike ride with you now. But sorry, I forgot to change my gearshift.... have fun!"
You get it, sir. Thank you for your commitment to mechanical. Bicycle has to remain energy-free simple mechanical machine. I don't even have a cycling computer on my bike. I've too many electronic gizmos in my life to warrant yet another one on my bike.
Rim brakes you say, 😁, never giving up mine, ever 👍💪
from what I've heard from Campaq reps they will support rim brakes and discs for many years to help small frame builders and retro-fitting to old frame sets.
I sure hope so. I am keeping my rim brakes as long as my frame still is solid.
@@AgentSmith16 I'm keeping my rim brakes for as long as I possibly can. If the frame breaks, it will be a matter of available spares for my current groupset if I have to go to a custom framebuilder for a rim brake frame. I will not voluntarily get disc on the road bike..
@@thomaslutro5560 no shortage of 126mm spaced steel frames out there, let alone 130mm frames. The inventory of used rim brake bikes is only going to grow as people dump old things they don't want as they accumulate new things and run out of space. Hell, in the last 5 years, I've gotten rid of a dozen rim brake road bikes. I still have two, one is on the trainer indefinitely, and the other is a Poovelo P5. Probably keeping the trainer bike forever since it's traveled the world(via plane😅) and has over 200k memorable miles on it. I'm keeping the Poovelo as it's got a custom paint job and it's only a smidgen slower than the best TT bikes on the market(at least for now)
@@veganpotterthevegan Yep. A bit of a sceptic when it comes to second hand bikes though, I mean, it may be a botched job from the manufacturer, or some undisclosed crash wreck, or both... But I get the point. I still see myself on a steel 'lifer' next time, I'm that old.
@@thomaslutro5560 that’s what I’ve done.
I guess I'm in the minority but I've always really liked campag's thumb shifting. Kind of ironic that the new system is so small and fiddly whereas thumb levers fit my large hands very well.
Not that I'm interested in electronic group sets anyways, mechanical 11sp is more than I need for the riding I do.
I don’t think you’re in the minority. It was one of the best ergonomic decisions they ever made. Being able to dump a whole cassette in on thumb sweep never got old.
I love the thumbshifter too, use both, the mechanical and the electronic one. Seeing the small paddles so close together cries for shifting errors, at least from afar. Sram just enlarged the Force paddle for more convenient shifting. Curious to see it in real.
You're definitely not alone, the thumb shifting is why I love Campagnolos Ergos much more than Shimanos STIs. I have rented a dura ace Di2 12sp bike on Mallorca last year and I didn't like the relatively small and tightly packed buttons. I've had several misshifting experiences. It is nothing dramatic in the summer and you can get used to it, but I would hate to use it in the winter with gloves on.
These Campa shifter buttons look awful.
I'm in that minority too, I guess.
Why would you imagine that you would be in the minority?
The thumb shifter is king.
I will miss the traditional Campagnolo thumb shifter 😟. It's ergonomically pleasing and there's never any confusion as to upshifting or downshifting. This new system looks fiddly.
$4000 🤯 think how many hairdressers you could get for that
Cons for electronic shifting:
- idiotically expensive (2-3 more expensive than their mechanical counterparts)
- porkier than a Rubens' painting (3 kg for an entry-level AXS is an absolute joke)
- significantly more things that could go wrong with it mid-ride
Cons for mechanical shifting:
- if you're way too technically challenged to turn a barrel adjuster the right amount, it might not shift properly
Not going to pay the incompetent's tax anytime soon. Mechanical shifting until I've bought the last available compatible component on the second-hand market.
So far the biggest gate keeping aspect for me has been cost. Before they placed a restriction on selling group sets, mechanical sets were fairly affordable. Now, the average electronic group set is is $1,200. That's insane. If CNY electronics come out and severely undercut the big names, I will be checking those out (would love to hear about some of those group sets btw). Until then, I'm not upgrading from my mechanical Force.
Chinese groupsets are not to a level that you drop a few dollars on. People want cheap and quality to move from the big names.
There is a electronic chinese groupset but it’s only for mountain bikes for now
@@glennoc8585 That could change when the patents for electronic groupset expires. China would be free to make cheap electronic shifters and derailleurs to sell in the West. As a drop in replacement upgrade.
L-TWOO are launching an electronic groupset now.
1200 dollars? A Dura Ace is close to 4000 same for Campy super.I see bikes in stores for over 10 thousand dollars,this is crazy.
I have bought here in Italy a brand new Benelli Leoncino 800 75 hp with electronic suspension,double front disk for 7500 Euro,8000 dollars.
There is no way i am about to pay this kind of money for something that his weight is less 7/8 kg.
Not even pure silver cost's this much.
Campy are kings of ergonomics. I'm sure the feeling will be great.
LOL
NOOOOOOO
The whole reason I love campy is because of the thumb lever!
I bet you that is exactly why that bottom switch is "backwards". You'll still downshift with your thumb.
That’s a UFL connector for the antenna, common for the smallest quadcopter antennas for flight control boards and video transmitter boards. Don’t think DJI, think of a quad that fits in your hand. Typically it’s a flat 90 deg coax lead that snaps into what is in the photo. Very compact, the smallest used.
I am going the opposite way. Riding this season without any electronics bolted to my bike. Smartphone in back pocket, mechanical groupset, rim brakes.
Same
Yes, same. Get off the marketing madness merry-go-round or it will drive you mad (and poor).
U so cool but I can't remember asking
i like the garmin radar too much to do that
It’s refreshing, how cycling for fun should be.
2 grand for a pair of derailleurs. Dentists will kill for this.
dentist will pull his own teeth for this
I love etap, for being wireless. Less setup. My only immediate concern with the design of the campy lever is the button size as you noted. Some of us ride in bad/cold weather, and finding those tiny buttons may be annoying. Maybe not though, I can't imagine an engineer didn't try and test the design, I'm used to the big paddles though.
Etap is underrated for its ease in winter riding shifting.
I´d actually think that the buttons are maybe that small because there is still a piece missing in these pictures that will be fixed onto there (glued or whatever). Something like a carbon or plastic plate.
7:40 That is what I was saying when they presented electronic 105 and completely ditched rims and shifting cables - it is simply cheaper to make. But they are selling it to gcn auditory for double the price of the mechanical. In a few years when everyone gets this point - mechanical shifting will only be available for fancy elites :). Idk about you guys but I'm hoarding spare parts for my 11 speeds 105/ultegra and Centaur for years ahead.
I don't want electronic shifting.
I did some quick digging and the SoC on the board is an Insight SiP 1507-AX model chip. Here's a couple quotes from the data sheet.
"It can support BLE, Mesh, ANT and a range of proprietary 2.4 GHz protocols, such as ShockBurst."
"Ultra-low power consumption and advanced power management enables battery lifetimes up to several
years on a coin cell battery."
I don't think this is any surprise or new information, but it's a specific detail on the presented PCB.
The patent filing also references a Nordic Semiconductor nRF52832 Bluetooth SoC, maybe that sits toward the derailleur(s) end and handles whatever the shifters are sending.
@@shadowgrue hopefully the chips are sourced outside of Asia as future conflicts could see chip shortages or complete unavailability.
@@shadowgrueThe 1507 isn't designed by SiP, they rather license the design from Nordic's nrf52832. All SiP is doing is resigning the physical-"package" of the chip.
That is also done on the almost similar UBlox ANNA- B112.
Waaaaaaat, no thumb shifters! 😮
Italian and electronics don’t go together, at least in my mind.
Favero Assioma seems to work very well ;-)
umm my Favero power meter pedals disagree
@@janiser4711 MIne crapped out and needed to be replace, which they did, FWIW.
Lucas, Prince of Darkness.
cheaper to make but not cheaper to buy????
That's the whole point fella, hahaha. It's thought out to be great for them, not for us.
I’m nearly at the end of a 1300km ride around Taiwan and I would never try a ride like this with an electronic groupset. My mechanical ride is reassuringly uncomplicated as I’ve needed to fix things as I go.
Yeah I'd never travel overseas on my di2 bike unless in say Japan where parts are so easy to source. Mechanical external cable is wise
it's very interesting that you say this, because all I hear about electronic is that it's very reliable and doesn't need any adjusting at all once properly set up, can you please explain?
I could.
Simply put, these folks talk out of their arse without having actually tried anything.
Built my first bike with di2, Done my audex and gravel audex rides with di2. Zero issues 0 Chain drops perfect shifts every single damn time.
My first ride with mechanical ultegra 11s last week (was building a retro bike for fun and because of the hype around mechanical), immediately experienced my first chain drop which scratched my rotor crank arm.
So, yep, contrary to the what you’d normally expect, mechanical is anything but reliable compared to electronic shifting. Electronic just works every damn time
I bought my first Campagnolo groupset in 2005, this would have been the 10speed days when Record was the top and Super Record name was on hiatus. I paid $1575.95 for the 8 piece group, I'm looking at the receipt right now (thanks Gmail!). So what's my point? No way I'm paying $4k for an e-group, inflation or not. Not that it matters these days, I seem to have drunk the SRAM kool-aid and only have a campy alloy crank laying round.
Some manufacturer needs to come in and go: Electronic shifters don't need to be similar to mechanical ones, switches are simple and we can put them anywhere they like. Thumbshifters didn't make sense to me, but neither do those two small buttons on the lever blade.. Also "sprinter buttons" should be standard, a set of those switches should be less than 5$ in manufacturing costs.
I guess I'm turning into one of those old guys that swears by old stuff like rim brakes but I'm going to keep running mechanical shifting on all my bikes as long as possible.
$4k is a lot for $8 worth of IOT components
Could be the lightest electronic 12/13sp groupset. Levers look very minimalistic
If the movement is as you describe it, it's even worst when wearing thick gloves for those who ride in colder climate.
You could accidentally activate both levers simultaneously.
I don't know for sure, it's only a guess based on the photo which shows where the hinge pin is.
Nooo, pressing both buttons at the same time ejects you from the bike !!
The ergonomics of having 2 narrow levers next to each other never made sense to me. The few times I tried di2 I hated it, for this reason.
Campy has always touted the thumb lever as a differentiating factor with better ergonomics (and I for one love it) - it would be incredibly dumb for them to ditch it.
I think that's easy to manage in software, e.g. first action rules out the second for certain threshold, so you can't shift back down within 0,5 seconds after an upshift or shifter can measure the force/travel of the lever and only react to the stronger respectively more likely input.
If you press both buttons at once the bike takes a screenshot
Electronic shifting will be mainstream in the near future after it fully matures due to simpler manufacturing and possibility to share multiple electronic bits between different price points.
However what I am most curious about is when is some shifting brand going to make a really serious mechanical set akin to swiss watches. I reckon in the future a very nicely made mechanical set will be the luxury option and everything else will be cheap electronics once mass production brings prices down.
I’ll keep my used and abused Shimano Claris in a box for some years and in the future I’ll be a cool guy on my retro aluminum bike
The only issue with electronic shifting is its a proprietary closed technology. You can’t use a 11 speed shifters work with 12 speed. When all it needs is a simple software update. The batteries are also firmware locked. When the manufacturer discontinues the groupset. You can’t even buy new batteries for it.
MAPDEC Cycle Works on RUclips has a dilema for a clients bike with Campy Record EPS that he can no longer buy new replacement batteries for it. The bike was a former World Tour team race bike. So keeping the bike components as original spec is important. If it was a mechanical groupset. The bike could be easily maintained to last. As long as you don’t crash it.
If electronic groupset hardware goes open source. The prices of groupsets will go down. Since derailleurs with electronic servos is cheaper to produce than mechanical derailleurs that requires precision manufacturing. You can have one programable electronic shifters and derailleurs to work with any gear speed set by an app.
"... when is some shifting brand going to make a really serious mechanical set akin to swiss watches... "
They already perfected mechanical shifting 30-plus years ago with down tube shifters, the best of which (Shimano Dura Ace) was as close to switch watch precision as you can possibly get. Vastly superior to absolute trash garbage STI shifters / brifters in every conceivable way from a mechanical standpoint.
Neither current Super Record or current Dura Ace levers come close to the jewelers precision of down tube shifters (in particular, the ones that had the dual mode indexing or frictiin option) - I own them all.
Almost zero noise on any shift in the hands of a person who knows how to shift in friction mode, literal (and I do mean litwral, in a mathematical sense) infinitely adjustable and trimmable faster tgan electronic shifting ever could do it (which is not infinitely trimmable in any case because stepper motors... well, they adjust in steps... which inherently makes them inferior to friction mode, and unlike trash garbage STI brifters, you can shift the entire cassette with one swipe, both faster and smoother than electronic shifting ever could. Abd of course, theres the backwards and forward compatability of old down tube shifters which was just a nice little side benefit because you did not have to buy a new groupset just to get more gears... as friction mode let you use whatever the latest cassette (up to a point, depending on if Campy or Shimano).
@@alexjohnson6462 The practical difference between the less of a tenth of a mm precision that those stepper motors achieve and "infinitely adjustable" is exactly 0. And don't ignore the taking the hand from the handlebar to your downtube in your shift time comparisons..
It's very possible that none of my bikes will have electronic shifting in the next 20 years, but their automatic trimming ability in combination with just clicking through gears without moving more than one finger of the handlebar just can't be achieved with a cable.
@@alexjohnson6462 Suntour Superbe from 1983.
Batteries batteries batteries, sick of batteries.
hope there's a rim break option. so can use to update older frames
No thumbs! Wow! Campy is 'thumbing' their nose at us, fans!
I bet you that is exactly why that bottom switch is "backwards". You'll still downshift with your thumb.
They tend to listen to customer feedback nowadays so if punters want an electronic version of the thumb shift they might do it
I've got mechanical thumb shift campy on a retro frame update I built. I only ride it occasionally but I just love the thumb shift. I have di2 on my group bike and I don't think its that much faster or better. Well setup campy mechanical is very good and I'm saying that as a life long Shimano guy. Never tried the campy electronic. My only grip with campy mechanical is the cables are specific and a bit pricey, found a way to adapt Shimano gear cables to fit. Not sure I want electronics in both the derailleurs and shifters unless they're a cheap enough and easily serviceable item. An analog micro switch in a di2 lever is easy to fix and would usually last for for the a lifetime.
Given the ‘links’ between Italian component companies I suspect there will be a lot of FSA tech in the shifting, probably semi wireless? I’ve always liked and used Campagnolo mechanical shifting and the thumb lever. Not likely I will upgrade’ to this iteration.
I can guarantee you there will have been ZERO tech from FSA in the shifting. All electronic design is done in house in Vincenza under the tightest security and they share NOTHING with anyone outside the company.
L Twoo eRX is on the way! It looks semi wireless like di2. Waiting for the price tag.
I suspect these levers will be simultaneously compatible for disc and rim, by adding the necessary specific components for the disc operation (hydraulic) or rim (cable attachment in the head of the lever).
Thanks to the new N3W standard, in case of disc the cassette will be 13S, while in case of rim will be 12S.
As the system is electronic, it can be configured for either 13S or 12S.
Re; hinge positions. This may be a way to get around Shimano patents for actuation method of gear shifts
This. Many quirky designs would not exist if not patent protection...
I really like the thumbshifters on my 11-speed EPS: these look like they’re going to be waaay too easy to confuse…
Campy is dying, losing body parts now, thumb shifters, next, thumbs
FCC Federal Communications (I demand my) Commission.
The connector name is ipex, it is quite often used for 2.4ghz antennas, mmcx requiers much bulkier connector.
I think you are right. In time even Tiagra and Sora will be electronic for the reasons you outlined. Bring it on, I love my di2.
My next shifter will be desmodromic.
Sadly the overlap of the Hambini audience and fanboys of Ducati valve actuation mechs may turn out to be very small, and no-one will get the reference.
Nice one
Great one, I love the Italian desmo sound!
@John Edge I'm thinking about a bicycle with a Rene Herse derailleur and front shifter. Of course it needs to be a custom frame.
@@john-r-edge Sorry, I can't hear you over my 'tard 1100 EVO SP with dry clutch
The rim brake version is great for retrofits. There are alot of rim brake bikes out there!
A sad day for thumbing fans the world over.
Those lever bodies are definitely hydraulic. Looks similar to their current hydro ones.
The use of CR2032 batteries is a good thing coz they typically last a year, weigh nothing and you can buy them in a corner shop if you do run out. It would be class if any manufacturer kept the lever movement to shift down and just have a button for shifting up - replicating mechanical. I don't like Di2's style at all, far too many times I find myself shifting into a harder gear on a climb due to my incompetence. Not used campag as of yet but planning to.
I'm crying 😢
Those thumb levers will not be missed, horrible ergonomics trying to downshift.
Not sure why they don't plaster the whole thing with buttons, all kinds of different places and let the rider pick or disable. (Switches are cheap).
Yesssss
I'll stay with SR12 EPS for the time being, love the thumb shifters
I'm looking forward to see more and real competition in electronic shifters. Legacy brands do tag it as luxury/more expensive while as you've said it is cheaper to make.
For the time being i'll stay with my 6800.
If you're looking for an affordable electronic drivetrain I'm not sure campag is the hero you're looking for
@@scrumpoxjnr i was refering to note made by Hambini that there is number of electronic groupsets in the chinise development pipeline.
@@1mesonyx Ah very good
Looking forward to the l-twoo erx
Suprised that no one are using double acting levers, e.g. Sram could shift the front mec by moving the lever outboard and remove the lagging on the front shift.
The chip is an SP1507-AX bluetooth module
Mr. Hambs. What is your engineering impression of the Ekar groupset?
Good luck using these micro controls with winter gloves!
Think voice commands.
How many people ride their 10 grand top shelf bikes in the winter these days when everybody and their dog have a smart trainer at home though. And winter gloves aren't as much of a problem as you think. I am riding my Di2 bike wearing Castelli's Estremo gloves on top of merino liner gloves and have never had a single problem operating the shifting controls.
Chinese LTWOO have an electronic groupset out or very soon, the ERX9. Wait and see how this performs.
Sram E-Tap simply is the best group set for ease of fitting and use,its fautless,Shimano may just have the edge on smoothness but Sram is great value and easy to set up.
Yeah because we all set up our bikes multiple times every year. LOL
Yep, just ask Bauke ruclips.net/video/Tsk3zAZyLaQ/видео.html
Actually there could be Electronics switches under the hood rubber. The one on the outside would be used by your index finger, the one on the inside by your thumb😊
Bingo. I've been a mechanical integrated campy user for 30 years, and that's exactly why that bottom lever is "backwards".
I saw on Bike Radar their interpretation of EP23-SRD12XXX is Ergo Power 2023 Super Record Disc 12 speed. They don't know what the XXX is for. I bet you can come up with something though. We can be fairly certain those are disc levers.
xxx stands for WRL wireless
I like my old 8 speed Sora with the thumb lever. Prefer it to the typical sti Shimano shifters.
wow. that is..... definitely an opinion. lol
@@DeckMower Why wow? I have old sora 9 on my winter bike and I prefer it to my ultegra, it shifts great ,requires less maintenance, no batteries, easier to index, less likely to fuck up. I could have a cycling holiday in Majorca for the price difference.
8:00 so they're cheaper to make but they're still gonna charge more... Nice 👍😃
Electronic shifting should be cheaper than mechanical, because it is simplier than mechanical.
Any experience of Planet-X bikes? There titanium bikes are very cheap. Any idea on the quality of their frames?
1. Mechanical is cheaper
2. Mechanical is much more environmentally friendly
3. Mechanical doesn't need to be charged
4. Electronic components have a finite life. The electronics in an electronic system will fail after a number of years. The fact that shift levers are in a harsh environment doesn't help
5. Batteries have a finite life both in terms of years and number of cycles. Will you be able to buy replacement batteries in 20 years? Probably not. Will you be able to buy replacement cables? Yes.
6. Mechanical is lighter
7. Mechanical doesn't make whirring noises like Big Hero 6
Yo !! My Gen 1 EPS has crapped out and given the total lack of parts and expertise to fix it, I'm retro-fitting mechanical, having scrounged a set of mech brifters from Ebay
Ltwoo went wireless too
Hambeener goes gravel
It's a no brainer that groupsets will progressively go electronic for the very reason that (as per Hambini) its easier to build momentary switches and a wireless transmitter, coupled to a stepper motor than it is to build quite complex mechanics into the confined space of a shifter. I would be doubtful if Campag will bring out a rim brake version of this given that the launch groupset will be Super Record level and there are effectively no rim brake bikes available at that level - more's the pity BTW.
If I’m going to shell out anywhere close to that amount, I want shifting and braking controls to be independent. I want blips to be where I want them, and actuated as I want them (lever or button or twister), and if I want different brakes, I don’t want to be told that there are no shifters that go with it.
I’m not into wireless much prefer the the mechanical shifter , I’ve had a few goes on a electronic groupset and to be honest I didn’t like it so it’s a personal choice , I’ll stick with my 12 speed Chorus groupset absolutely love it
What we all really want to know is which crazy company is going to be the first to release cableless braking system.
Now, would I use it.
It's a red PCB, so guaranteed to be faster.
U mean a PCB with ceramic bearings ?
Looks a lot like the FSA WE groupset
I am a life long campagnolo fan, but the prices for electronic is a step too far especially as you say all the fiddly little parts are done away with so cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to ass, cheaper for the manufactures to assemble on to bikes... but dearer to buy ?
They’re still using those trash steel bar clamps, just like they do on their current Super Record EPS shifters. When will they use titanium bar clamps like you get on a set of Dura-Ace shifters? I actually swapped my SR clamps out for the Ti DA clamps to save a few grams.
This is great, imo. Every time I have to route cables through a frame I am reminded what a pain in the arse mechanical is, then I forget after a month and proclaim mechanical is fine. The only real problem with electronic is the price, I guess when Chinese start rolling out cheap clones it will have to come down.
Inside from the srouce says. this is true.. and a New Boutique wheelset high end.. meaning? does it get up one on Lightweight.. price too..
Rumors I have heard is its 12 speed... starting with a 10 as the first cog (dropping the 11) Also all compact style rings, 50X34 being the largest.. There will have to be an option for bigger rings... Pros are not going to TT on a 50T ring..hopefully there is nothing crazy about the new crank, and will simply allow the old 12s 53/39 Record rings to bolt up like they do to an SRM or P2Max, then just use the current 11-29 block since 12 will be spaced the same... I guess time will tell... I also saw upward of 5000 UK pounds as the cost without the Powermeter.... I love my Campagnolo, but I don't see myself ditching my Current wired EPS 12 on my Venge just to lose some wires, and potentially lose my 53/39 and SRM over it...
And FINALLY there is also an affordable chinese group set on the market: L-Twoo Erx
I think this will be really disruptive for the market and the heavenly overpriced brands Shimano and Sram will get what they deserve.
I would be very happy if Hambini could do a review of this groupset
You can't be disruptive without integrated blockchain capabilities and crypto-shifting.
@@arthur4466 well at least they carry a very cryptic name and there chains are delivered in nice blocks! 😀😂😊
So, it seems all prerequisites are fulfilled!
But back to serious mode: I think this is exactly what we have been waiting for to kick Simanos and Srams "agreed prices" ass!
super expensive as usual
Hello Bambini!
Not $4k. Supposedly $6k without PM.
LOL
So why is it more expensive if it's cheaper to make?
It's Campy. My money is on it being 13sp. I've nearly no doubt. Campag ALWAYS does this stuff...
I think its a UFL Connector
Why would they remove the tumb lever..... It pretty much kept it relevant compared to all others groupset
Maybe they assume with electronic shifting people prefer something simpler? Left hand shifts down, right shifts up? This would kinda make sense if this is for a 1x groupset.
But yeah, it's dumb. Why take away something every Campy fan loves? The levers are programmable anyway if anyone doesn't want to use their thumb.
Maybe they'll offer them as optional "satellite shifters"? I'm sure they'll charge handsomely :)
@@blooptastic If its electronic you don't need more than 1 hand to go either way with either derailleur since the front and rear will both be controlled by the computer.
Prob because the only other manufacturars that use a thumb shifter is cheap chinese. Not a good look for Campy.
@@cjohnson3836 You mean it shifts the front derailleur automatically as you go up and down the cassette? I know that's a thing ("Sequential Shift" Campy calls it) but the idea of the bike changing chainrings on me when I'm not expecting it rather horrifies me. But yeah, maybe they're thinking that's what people will use.
@@blooptastic Yes. There's no reason you need to be manipulating each independently. There are already people talking about automatic shifting.
Wireless so does that mean you are not allowed to ride a thus equipped bike within a 20 mile radius of for example the Green Bank Observatory?
In that area there is no mobile phone service, wifi devices and even microwave oven are banned.
May I ask ? Which Chinese wheels are better than zipp’s? I need some new wheels this spring!
If it's disc, I'd say the Farsports Ventoux, Winspace Hyper or Elitewheels. The elitewheels are particularly light so they accelerate fast which is good for me because I have to stop at lots of lights. www.hambini.com/elite-wheels-drive-40v-40mm-racing-bike-wheels/
@@Hambini So if it's rim brakes?
@@savagepro9060 for rim I would say the 2020 winspace hyper
@@Hambiniwhy not the 2023?
Ahhhhh... look for Campa... 😉
not too sure about electronic being cheaper overall. the shifters for sure. but the front and rearmech + batteries l don't think so ... otherwise why is the 12S 105 so damn expensive compaired to R7000 ... but maybe there will be some interesting stuff with CUES?
There is ridiculous markup on mid to highend groupsets, I doubt the prices are really related to production costs, it's more related to what people are willing to pay (and getting their development costs back quickly).
You might be right that electronic groupsets could be not cheaper overall, but you can't base that on the customer prices of components.
It is cheaper, especially the most expensive part - the levers. Electronic ones only have hydraulic (or rim brake) mechanisms and simple buttons, and for mechanical levers we need dozens of small precisely made moving parts from different materials to ensure index shifting. Also, no need for cables and housings, just simple wires or a Bluetooth chip. So, overall fewer parts need to be produced. Servomotors and batteries are most likely not made in-house as they can be easily outsourced - there are plenty of manufacturers who can do it cheap, good, and fast.
It's like mechanical and electronic watches.
And yes, as @Finnspin_unicles mentioned - they can rise the price as long as dentists are willing to pay for it. We can see it clearly with top-line S-works and Trek frames - the price tags are already ridiculous and keep rising and other companies follow the trend - but the manufacturing cost is negligible. Cycling is a new golf :)
@@IvanMalechko not sure watches are compairable in this case. but seing the price of the ltwoo eRX l think shimano fucked up big time with the price tag of the 12S 105
@@leonschumann2361 yup, absolutely. From one of the best groupsets of all time, 105 suddenly became one of the biggest disappointments.
@@IvanMalechko also cues won't be a replacement and not 12 speed. l think business wise the chinese will really dig into the 105 level groupset market. but that is just free market economy l guess XD l ride an elves falath frame and elite wheels marvel disc and l am very impressed by the chinese products, price, quality, customizability and service.
I know this is pedantic, but it bothers me when people (including Shimano) call Di2 "semi wireless." There's no such thing. It's either wireless or it isn't. Am I alone in thinking this?
Man i hate these companies for force killing mechanical. When companies are lead by greedy punks and not real cyclists you endup with this mess.
With so many people preferring rim brakes, you would think that manufacturers would be offering hydraulic rim brakes so that they only had to make one type of lever. SRAM offered hydraulic rim brakes for 11 speeds. Wireless is made for idiots that don't know how to route cables. That is what make hydraulic disks so insane - people that can't route cables certainly aren't capable of routing hydraulic hoses.
My experience is that Di2 shifted better than cables but not enough better that it would force me to forget how to align the derailleurs correctly. Though better, not enough better to correct for having to plug your bike in to recharge it.
I refuse to go down the path where "Bike not working? Reboot it"!
Wireless is great if the battery life was not so utterly garbage :) Or the fact a fully equipped wireless mountain bike with SRAM needs like 7 batteries. You would need a good hairdresser to keep your battery charging organized.....
4K. Did I see 4K. I’m off on holiday stick with decent mechanical or Di used something.
how come Wheeltop and Archer can do electronic shifting for any speed via an app but the big 3 cycling mafia make us pay for an entire groupset?....why isn't Shimano cues using the app idea?...if it's cheaper to make then obviously someone's getting screwed and I think it's us 😏
If it turns out to be cheaper to produce the shifter well lets face it bring the price down for the customer.
Not only will they not have to produce small parts but also ditching cables as well, less work.
We shall see....
So Campaq are going 98% SRAM with 12 speed, fully wireless, separate batteries, 10 tooth cog, almost identical cassette and chain ring sizes with only the shifting buttons/sheme being slightly different. What's not to like?
The Campaq Fan Boys probably didn’t see that coming.
With Campag’s current front EPS mech being as chunky as it is, I can’t imagine they will go full wireless like Sram. I think they’ll go semi-wireless, like Shimano. I think semi-wireless is the way to go. Dedicated batteries on front and rear mech become annoying. One more thing to charge and worry about. Plus, they look super chunky. And one internal battery has a higher amp-hour capacity than two small integrated derailleur batteries.
Whats so bad about Front mech? In comparision with di2? I could buy 11 speed sr eps. Whats your meaning about that? More worse?
Dies campa have self adjusting microsteps while shifting at the back?
Sorry for asking. I dont know anyone personally having eps...
@@matthiasl1480 nothing is bad about the front mech as it is now. My point is that it’s already large and making the derailleurs wireless would mean that the front mech would need its own battery, making it even larger.
Since L-Twoo has now copied the thumb lever layout. It was time to run away from it. This is definitely still some proto type. Fully wireless, battery non removable since thats a sram patent. Battery hidden in the cage of the parralelogram of the derailleur.
CAMPAGNOLO KICK'S SHIMA(NO)'S ASS AGAIN, YET NOW ONLY HAS ONE SECOND-RATE TEAM!!!
WHY THEY NEVER STAYED WITH COLNAGO UAE IS NUTS!!!
Still don't understand this crazy thing about wireless. I have my Di2 wired, is the first thing I did as soon as I got my new bike. The times AXS has let me down in the middle of a ride with an empty coin cell on the shifters without a warning of low battery is total crap. I tend to have a spare CR2032 just in case, but still, crap.
I waiting for the next GRX Di2 to drop my AXS but if is only wireless/semi-wireless I will put the current GRX wired. That for sure.
I have got the older eTap HRD, installed on two bikes, purchased 3 years ago, and still with the original batteries in all the shifter levers and still going strong. The only ever problem I have had with SRAM components is the f*cking amount of packaging they put it all in in case you buy a group set on its own. A box inside a box in another box like a matrioshka doll.