Waldorf vs. Montessori Education: What's the Difference?
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- Waldorf and Montessori are both excellent methods of alternative education, but what's the difference? In this video, I share my experience as a Waldorf early childhood visiting a Montessori early childhood program and my observations of the differences.
I'm far from an expert on Montessori education, so I'd love to hear from Montessori parents and teachers about the differences as you perceive them.
As always, I'm here to answer your questions. If you have a topic you'd like me to address in a future video, email me at sundaywithsarah@bellalunatoys.com.
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This comment section is so rich! I'll leave my comment here, read the others and maybe I'll return and comment again.
My son is now 4. Before he was born, I worked with many teachers (I was a sing language interpreter at a college then) who informed me about Montessori and Reggio Emilia. My husband studied a little about Waldorf in his music education degree. So, when our son was born, we naturally considered this alternatives models of schooling. Our boy was born with severe cerebral palsy and vision impairment. When I read about anythingon parenting and education, I instantly had the feeling that whatever was being presented was unfit for our family needs (even inside the disability community, because we had this multi-disability situation). As I loved Montessori, we decided to "follow our son" on his developmental needs, and adapt the environment for him. This is still a motto in our house. Yet we soon found that we couldn't go much beyond that. Last year he started attending a regular preeschool (even though 'regular' may mean different thing depending on who reads this. We live in Brazil, in a big, good city) and his social skills went over the roof. We were so glad! Now, looking at who he is, his preferences and abilities, we are seeing much interest in nature, play, story telling, music, movement (running and dancing in his wheelchair)... Waldorf is starting to make more sense to us. I believe our journey as atypical parents will forever be to search and collect this different gems and gold nuggets, and adapt then to our unique reality. Thank you for this video, and others on you RUclips channel.
Doing real work for a real purpose is the foundation of Montessori philosophy. That so much of the prepared environment is given over to exercises of "practical life" is evidence of this concept. Children are drawn to imitate and engage in activities for self-care, care of others, and care of their surroundings. Children also have an inner drive to practice those skills through repetition. So, the practical life area will often contain a shelf for skill building - where children can practice pouring water to a line through a funnel (as many times as they would like), using spoons, scoops, or other tools to strengthen hand-eye coordination and refine muscle movements, and so on. When we bake a cake, I can say, "wow, I can see that you have really been practicing measuring." I can turn over more and more of the activity to children as they become more competent and able to function independently in the real world.
In fact, it was the observation that children would prefer to engage with real food over pretend food, real tools that allow them to actually make things than plastic ones where they pretend to, that informs our methods. At birth, the child is bombarded with information. They have to sort out the properties of matter, IF/THEN relationships- cause and effect, what is safe and unsafe, living and non-living, and generally what is true and not true about the time and place in which they find themselves. Just as a baby will hold up their head, roll over, begin to crawl, pull up to stand... without being "taught," the child will continue an innate path of development that causes them to explore and experiment with the way the world works. They are literally constructing the cognitive architecture that will help them to accurately perceive and respond to reality.
Once this foundation is established (around age 6) they can "play" and engage in fantasy as much as they want ...because they will "get the joke" and know that they are consciously creating games and juxtapositions of concepts. It is like the difference between banging on a piano (because that's all you can do) and composing music. Most of the play that we remember from our childhood happened after age 6.
Before that time, it is true that children can use play to process emotions, and this can be important. But this is not discouraged in the Montessori classroom. Children are empowered to choose their own activities in response to their inner emotional, social, physical, cognitive, adaptive/spiritual needs. Protecting the connection to our innate drives for health and well-being (knowing when we are hungry, when we are thirsty, when we would benefit from movement, etc.) is part of the reason for independent snack during the morning period. Lessons of grace and courtesy are already practiced in every interaction in the classroom. We will continue these lessons at lunch and during cultural "celebrations of life" that should also happen regularly in a Montessori classroom.
Hope this is helpful.
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Terri Sherrill Hi, if you don’t mind I would like to ask you how did you become a Montessori teacher? I’m currently studying but Montessori has caught my attention. What would I need to do, to become one?
Thank you! Being a Montessori Guide working with children ages 3-6 we do REAL work!
Thank you for your comment, this lady needs to learn more about Montessori before talking about it
Andie Alaniz why isn't she allowed to talk about what she personally observed on her own channel?
I put my son in a Montessori at age 2 and he was doing okay. It wasn't good enough for me and finally found a tiny place that was knee deep Waldorf. He FLOURISHED. Both locations and teachers were wonderful. One had a smaller group than the other. I grew up in Germany and craved my son to have a similar experience. I wanted him to come home dirty and energetic. That is exactly what ended up happening. When he was at Montessori his calm temperament wasn't challenged and he never broke out of his shell. Bottom line I think the personality of the child needs to meet the rhythm of the school. It's absolutely crucial it depends on the personality and temperament of the child. I don't think anything else matters.
This comment section is amazing! So much respect for the different schools and communicating information as well as understanding with compassion. Just shows what type of people teach and come from these two ways of education.
Thank you.
Both beautiful well thought out systems. Many public schools have adopted much of this understanding of development.
I’m a music teacher in both a Montessori school and a Waldorf school in my area, so I appreciate your comments so much! I’m glad to be a teacher in both types of schools. Both forms of education offer great aspects.
I actually like the idea of using the grater for the soap. We will all learn to use the grater to cook but I like the idea of using objects in unconventional ways. It takes the object out of the “box” and get the critical/imaginative thinking going, creating clever and innovative people.
Robin Norman interesting thought!! :)
N flushing the soap is a big waste. They should have used it not flush it.
Grating soap is a waste of material, but is an imaginative use of common tools. Work or play, application of word activity doesn't matter. Waldorf seems more pragmatic and lockstep, building social cohesion rather than exploration.
In some Montessori schools, the grated soap is left in a container and used to “wash the clothes” so it’s not wasted. In other the “bubbly soap is used to “mop the floor”
@@yayaruiz9258 “wasted” in a practical sense, but was very useful in the moment for that child’s developmental experience, ya?
My son has been going to a Montessori preschool for 2 years - and is attending a Waldorf playgroup since he’s a baby - so I have a bit of experience with both. In our Montessori school, my son is prepping food daily - he bakes bread/muffin/focaccia, peels and cuts veggies, grated cheese, makes pasta etc. it’s part of the practical life curriculum, which is one of the key areas in Montessori. The children set the table, eat together and clean up afterwards. Interestingly, my friends son goes to a Waldorf preschool, where the children prepare no food - they eat together but from their lunchboxes... so it just shows... my son has never grated soap...
In terms of solo play: in my son’s school he plays in pairs and also in groups, and there’s always group time (circle time and other activities they do in groups, such as music, yoga, crafting etc). But he can also work on things by himself if he chooses to. The main reason we decided on Montessori is because it’s child led. While I think they both emphasise the head, hands and heart, in Montessori the child can work on things she/he is interested at a certain time. So one child can explore space, while the next one is doing something else. But they can also explore things together if they want to. I think in a way, Waldorf is more ‘mainstream’ as it emphasises play, fantasy etc (including gnomes, fairies etc) in early childhood With free time but also teacher led time (Tuesday is painting day, Thursday is crafting day etc), and then moves to a very teacher led - frontal style teaching method, like in a mainstream school, where the children learn the same thing at the same time. In Montessori primary, the children still choose what they want to work with during their free time work cycle - they usually work on projects either by themselves, in pairs or in groups. The older children often mentor the younger ones. The teacher is the guide, he gives lessons but then backs off - so again, you can have a fe children working on maths, others on life cycles, others on art. It’s child led, and that’s what I like. If comes with its negatives too - including often not enough time on free play, etc.
My daughter’s Waldorf school cutting and prepare food too, plus, they finger knitting stuff and crafting with woods and natural materials
This is the first I've ever heard of Waldorf. I work at a Montessori school, and my principal complaint of the structure is that the tasks many children are given quickly feel pointless. We have the exact lesson you talked about, the one with the soap bubbles and egg beaters. I've noticed that the 3 year olds don't want to just make bubbles. They want to play in the bubbles, and when they're not permitted to, they lose interest and rarely touch the lesson a second time. The lessons get boring quickly, and all the children gravitate toward the more free areas like blocks and dramatic play, which creates tension and conflict. In my experience, children tire of pouring rice into a jar, then back into the other jar, then back into the first jar very quickly. Yes, they're practicing the skill, but why not let them practice when it will really count for them? It sounds so wonderful, the idea that they'd practice pouring rice into a measuring cup to actually make food to eat, rather than just to do it for the sake of doing it. Will look into this further!
are you sure the teachers are really montessori teachers? because sadly in canada i've seen many fake montessori school and it was awfull and the exact opposite of what it should be. more real montessori in europe.
I’m leaving Montessori to work in a Waldorf kindergarten. I have researched both and appreciate both- but my heart is with Waldorf.
You have to understand the reason behind each activity. It all has a direct and indirect preparation. Do talk to a Montessori trainer who will explain it all the acivities done by Montessori schools. Good luck
Amber, you made some great points and as a 35 year veteran in the ECE field, I couldn't agree more.
Thanx for sharing your experience. I believe we need to take whatever works for children from every educational system. maybe 100% montessori is not the ideal.
I love that you have done this video, Sarah. I am a Montessori parent and have always loved Waldorf. Maria Montessori said to "follow the child", meaning that each child has an intelligence that we can trust and we should provide them with what they are asking for. Because of this, each Montessori school is unique as the children drive where the learning gets directed, based on their interests, as well as the demographics of the community.
My children have gone to a few Montessori schools and they are all different, but all have the same underlying feeling of peacefulness, care of the environment and a sense of community. Maria Montessori said that Montessori education is education for peace, with the aim of the education being that when the child develops inner peace, this peace filters out into the world, eventually creating world peace :).
My children have thrived in Montessori education (my daughter is now in a Montessori high school) , they are so confident and happy. I remember going to playgroup with my son where he made scones every week to share with the class at snack time. He did this for weeks until he had absorbed it and was ready to move on to the next thing. Montessori works with "sensitive periods" where teachers capitalise on the time where children are interested in something, because the brain is absorbing it very easily, so it does not feel like work, but like play to them.
I remember once my daughter's teacher changed the direction of what she had been planning to teach because the children in her 6-9 class made parachutes that they were throwing off the first-floor balcony. She developed a whole science curriculum for them where they worked out speed, velocity etc! I find it so fascinating that the teachers work in such a beautiful partnership with the children to nurture their learning and their spirits.
Montessori and Waldorf teachers are angels walking on the earth and I bow in gratitude to all of you. xxx
I couldn't have said it better myself as a Montessori teacher. I'm always so happy to hear that a parent is sharing in the experience of 'following their child', it makes for such a great connection and partnership with us teachers.
Love M9ntessori
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Did Montessori teachers studied in Montessori pre middle and so on schools? If so -how did they aquire vast knoledge just by experiencing different experiences verses covering vast knoledge systematically ? It doesn't make sense to me.
Olga Dossa Thank you so much!
I love that Waldorf schools start the day with singing!
My son who attended a Waldorf school from 2nd through 5th grade, didn’t learn to read until age 8 but at age 26 he continues to write beautiful poetry. He had such fond memories of his years at Waldorf school that he studied Anthroposophy on his own in college while earning a masters degree in Engineering and is now teaching Physics and Math in a Waldorf high school.
That's wonderful to hear MusicaAngela! That's another difference I might have talked about. As you know, in a Waldorf early childhood classroom, we sing throughout the day, not just at circle time. We sing songs indicating that it's clean-up time, time to go outside, time to come inside, rest time, and so on. This is so much gentler that the mainstream preschool I taught at (prior to discovering Waldorf) where the teachers would yell, "FIVE MINUTES TILL CLEAN UP TIME!" What does five minutes mean to a three-year-old who has not yet learned to tell time? It's abstract. Singing through transitions allows the child to transition easily and doesn't jar them abruptly out of their imaginary play.
Thank goodness a young child does not know what 3 minutes is! Singing a song is a good way to transition since a song begins and ends and can be repeated or the tempo slowed down to signify the ending of a transition. “Stress is a perverted relationship to time” (John O’Donahue). Waldorf schools create or at least allow for a sense of calm. This is essential for learning.
One more thing - it is beautiful and gives joy to the parent to hear her children at home spontaneously start singing songs they learned in school.
@@SundaywithSarah We use songs and music in a similar way in the Montessori preschool I teach at.
@@SundaywithSarah Thanks for the tip! That's an excellent idea for me to introduce at home with my 2 year old :)
Songs are wonderful...and there is a strong body of evidence that singing together helps a group be cohesive and work together better. Yep. Kids (and adults) do better on group projects if they sing together first. ^^
Montessori is a bit more strict and individualized, and Waldorf is a bit slow-paced and social. I tried to implement both when my child was around 2 - 3 to figure out what she would like when she became 4. It turns out that Waldorf speaks to us as a family. We don't do everything Waldorf, but 80% of our homeschool is Waldorf inspired. It's so relaxed, and we love it. I think my only concern was that my child wouldn't develop specific skills on time (mainly bc she already has a disability, and everyone kept telling me - she should know this or that - by certain age 🤣) I think that's a concerned for many parents.
But I'm over it! I love how I'm teaching her now, and I'm learning so much about myself along the way.
At first, I thought Waldorf was a bit too hippie for me (& I consider myself a hippiesh person 🤣) there were also concerns about it not being a “black family friendly” education, but things can be easily adjusted which is great. The Waldorf curriculum is very flexible if you want it to be.
I've been really into researching Montessori lifestyles lately, but now I think I want to look into Waldorf as well. Perhaps I could find a happy medium and decide which parts of each style that I really like and use them all.
Heather Hughes I think Montessori education is really good but also children can find Waldorf lifestyle at home everyday.
@Terri Mccallum Yes. That is why I intend on homeschooling my children. We can customize it to what works precisely for each individual. Also I like that I'll be able to incorporate aspects of each method that I find most useful for our lifestyle. It will be quite eclectic, but I'm sure it will turn out great.
We are using a bit of both alongside other approaches. That's the beauty of homeschool.
Same here I thinking now of combining both of them and see what my 4 year old daughter will prefer...
@@STEAMLabDenver because they are not compatible. it's not about which one is better it's just two very opposite methods that can't coexist. (in one the teacher gives his knowledge to children in the other the teacher has to give the opportunity to the child to learn on his own, the teacher behavior is very different, in one every one has to learn the same thing at the same in the other one every one follows his curiosity and excitement, in one they will be great at art in the other they will be great at being themselves and following their true path plus very high academic level even very young, in one there's a hidden "spiritual"/religious purpose in the other one not. this video was made to diminish montessori while faking an open mind and appreciation.
I could tell you why i love montessori and not steiner but that would take long because it's a very serious matter. Montessori respects the child wellbeing and his potential like no other. steiner would be good to raise future theosophist and cult members. it all depends in what you're searching for. I'm for smart independant peaceful happy humanity so I'm 100% montessori. but shit the steiner kids they know how to draw like no like one else and that's why we add more art and other activities nowadays in montessori ..
I went to a Waldorf school until the age of 16 and absolutely loved it :)
I attended a Waldorf School for 3 years. My son attended a Montessori school for 6 years. The principal difference I noticed is that in Waldorf, the teacher is the model in the classroom who the student is expected to pattern him/herself after, in addition to after the various heroes and gods that are studied in Waldorf. In Montessori, the teacher is the enabler, the demonstrator who quickly gets out of the picture and allows the rules of the classroom and the materials themselves dictate the correct behavior for the children.
My child was a Waldorf student and now and Montessori student, I do agree with you on your comment.
You have it backward. I am a Montessori Guide. The work does not dictate the behavior of the children. As a Guide I demonstrate how to talk and act so that children learn what is appropriate in every day situations. Maybe the school your child went to was Montessori by name only.
@@alexklingler3609 In both cases the teacher demonstrates some level of control to model for the children.
hhmm so u r saying the teacher is considered very imp in Waldorf and is kinda/supposed to be worshiped(or deeply admired) by students(i would add they expect it from parents too) just like other heroes and Gods are supposed to be in their curriculum. I would agree here. Though I am a Waldorf parent and like Waldorf over Montessori . But Waldorf gives 100% power and control to the Teachers. There is no Principal/higher authority to who you can go to in casr you have a disagreement with the teacher or want to complaint abt teacher. No matter what they pretend, they would ALWAYS support their staff thats what they call "close community" They all act like Bullys and Dictators, parents just better worship them/butter they/obey them/dont question them. This is THE Worst thing abt Waldorf schools ! So if you had a bad experience with anyone at waldorf school(and its THEIR fault which they of course not tell their friends at Waldorf. they would spread their "made up" story like forest fire and all of sudden all the teachers, parents would start hating you the ones who were friendly with you. So basically they are are sheeps. They would hear a one sided story and would start harrassing you . They would keep giving you hard time untill you leave the school. this teacher of our child has been SO Mean to us and our child(!) , an innocent child! just because her friend (who in email admitted it was her fault) told her fake sob story to her(which was recommended by another waldorf parent, jews only recommend jews for ANY service you need and the whole group of professional were completely worthless, charged us soo much and didnt do anything, so based on those unintelligent and mean group of ppl this teacher not only gave us hardest time, defamed us in the school, always gave hard time to our preschool child. Such a shame! And these Waldorf teachers pretend to be/has an art to look SOOOO gentle that no one would believe they could do such a thing. Well, even if they believe, other staff members still would stick with their community called "close community. And also even if the parents believe and know the true story they would still keep buttering up the teacher to just look at their gain for their child) Its not actually a close community its called Bullys' community. These 2 things are bad abt Waldorf. No Principal , and Bullying. In fact Waldorf is known for allowing bullying. Sad.... such good other stuff along with this..
thank you exactly !
I‘m currently working as a Nanny and I am looking for inspiration on how to support the kids. I‘m also a Social Worker and an Art Educator and the difference between Montessori and Waldorf was even part of my studies. We all know that Waldorf and Montessori day cares and schools are very different, as it always depends on who is teaching and who is organising the school. Montessori is very science oriented and the focus is definitely on teaching independence and how to learn effectively. Sometimes I was a bit shocked about how parents would comment under Montessori content: Oh my child is far ahead of others. Can already read and do 3 figure math. I have a couple of Waldorf friends, all of them being super creative, smart and highly social. Sadly my experience with Montessori kids is, that they are not social. They will do as told, but not out of empathy. I worked with Montessori kids on a project once and I really struggled. Working as a team was nit possible. One in the group even expressed that it is his birthday and that he wishes to play a certain game - no chance. I really felt for that little boy. I really like the idea of open end play, educational learning and science projects. But I think our society is lacking community. I think it‘s fine to have one Montessori day a week, do spike your child’s interest in math, science etc. But just asked yourself, what made your childhood a great childhood? For me it was pretend play, social games, communal sport activities and being creative. My creative soul would have suffered in a Montessori school. I do like the room setup of a Montessori home but I will always encourage phantasy, creative play and to be a child for as long as possible.
I subscribed today. I enjoy your videos and seeing new ideas for art and play with my child. We initially wanted to be a Waldorf family, started off homeschooling with Oak Meadow, but unfortunately our one Waldorf school isn’t very good, and we ended up choosing a Montessori school instead. I’m so glad we did! It’s been a blessing.
I’d like to point out that in Montessori children are allowed and encouraged to engage with other children in the classroom, as well as watch what another child is working on, and interact and connect with them about the work. This video makes it sound like the children are completely independent of each other and don’t interact, when the opposite is true. I know you only observed one classroom, so that’s your experience, and who really knows how they run their room. I’ve observed many classrooms over the years, and have found my observations to be the same across the board.
The children are allowed to play together, imaginative open ended games inside the classroom. Also during snack, they choose a friend to enjoy their snack with, while they politely walk around the classroom inviting other children to a snack. It’s not at all an independent activity.
I've searched long and hard, what i want for my kid aligns with the WALDORF pedagogy. It's not the speed of learning but the formation of character, which gives me assurance of hope for our children's future.
I am homeschooling my 4yo daughter and I love your videos!!! They are very helpful and will definitely build up our curriculum as I discover her personality, she is a story teller, she loves it. I love the colors Waldorf uses, the art methods are so rich and beautiful
Both might be good for different reasons and for different children. However I'd be interested in seeing a future study of the results as these children are grown, between these and also traditional early education.
There are lots of studies supporting Montessori education and the long term benefits, which are mostly social-emotional. "The Science Behind the Science" by Lillard is a great place to start. Dr. Montessori was a scientist so her philosophy and didactic materials were informed by scientific observation and study.
Many of the most successful people in the world went to montessori schools. You can look up lists online. On waldorf videos you can see adults sharing their experiences.
One of my fondest memories from preschool Montessori is how there was a children's kitchen in small size, but instead of fake kitchen tools and fake food items there were real items there and we knew from picture drawings how to put things together scoop by schoop and give the batch to the teacher for baking. It always turned into muffin or a big cake =) Oh my, it was such a treat to be on that 'station' and how proud one felt for making this on your own. I also have memories of that grated soap being used to wash things with.
I went to a Waldorf School for a year when I was seven and as soon as my parents would let me I asked to return to a comprehensive primary school. I felt like I wasn't being stretched to my full capabilities as a bright young seven year old. I felt bored and restless during classes because I wanted to learn new and difficult topics whereas instead we were simply encouraged to play or draw. At first I enjoyed the constant playing and drawing and laughing but I soon began to feel as though I needed a greater challenge. Although I can see where the Waldorf philosophy comes from, as someone who as directly experienced it's teaching methods, I feel as though if I had stayed at the Waldorf School I attended I would not be able to achieve as highly as I do now. This comment is, of course, not meant to offend any parents interested in Waldorf education. It is merely a comment on my experience.
A waldorf teacher should actually be able to recognize if a kid is bored and how to handle it. sorry that you experienced something like that!
6 days of Italian wasn’t challenging? Hehe. I really mean to ask - the block learning topics you didn’t find a challenge? I’m trying to learn about it - thank you! ☮️
Waldorf is not concept heavy, it won't bombard you with concepts or academics for you to memorize. What is provided to you is an environment where you can come up with your own concepts out of what you carefully observe. If you are used to being fed information that someone else came up with, Waldorf would not be the environment for you. Waldorf makes independent learners and playing and drawing is just a part of bringing learning a step further. For example, you don't just learn about Botany, you get to draw and paint plants; you also get to water them and grow them in their natural environment. For those who understand Waldorf at a deeper level, everything included in its curriculum has the purpose of creating integrative learning in a very successful way.
Hi Sarah. I was a Montessori teacher for years, in Connecticut. In our classroom the children used graters, peelers, and even knives to participate in collaborative activities such as creating a fruit salad we would all enjoy at lunch or afternoon snack time. The soap grating type of activity you described would certainly take place, but in my experience the purpose would be for the sake of an independent activity. We did not feel that all play and learning need be a group effort, and oftentimes it proved beneficial for a child to do something quietly and alone, at his/her own individual pace. Love your videos, and look forward to Sundays! xo
Thanks for adding your perspective, Vanessa. The comments are leading to just the type of dialogue I was hoping to have. I wanted to add that during free play time in a Waldorf early childhood program, many children will spend time playing independently as well as in group play. As a Waldorf teacher, I love watching the way a child might sit and draw, or work on his handwork, then after a while join one group playing firefighters, for instance, then flowing to another group to join a tea party. I think that Waldorf education is similar to Montessori in that both allow self-directed play.
Very true love montessori all kids would cut and peel fruits and veggies. Very healthy. She doednt like Montessori because she doesnt work on one thats why
I do think there is a lot of work in the Montessori classroom that has a very specific intended purpose. For example, I have taught kids how to sew. But to begin that process the child practices a running stitch either on lacing cards or on very open cross stitch fabric. Then, we graduate to doing a running Stitch on burlap that has a design on it that's a child follows. The reason I mention this is a lot of our activities isolate a skill as a approach to introducing a later more complicated activity that involved more steps or more difficulty. We also teach a lot of practical life lessons like using a broom or doing dishes. Also depending on the school, children may have snack in a small group but are free to choose when they are ready to have snack. As you mentioned different Montessori schools have different ways of doing things. There's a huge difference between an AMI School and an AMS School, not to mention differences in the way the teachings of Dr. Montessori are interpreted by teachers and directors of centers. I have a master's in education and one of my primary areas of focus is what I term alternative education philosophy, so we're talking about Montessori, Reggio, Waldorf, and a few other types of educational philosophies.
Jamie Culp what would you say is the main difference between AMI and AMS school? Thank you.
Adriana AR in general AMI schools follow the teachings of Montessori as she originally wrote them. AMS tends to be, in my experience, a little more flexible in its interpretation of her work.
Watching you talk about education and seeing the passion behind it, just made me emotional. I dont know why! I just wish there were more teachers like you. I was a gifted child and had a horrible time at school. My son is also gifted, which i find hard sometimes, cause i dont want him to struggle with the same things in school as i did . Thats why im such a fan of both montessori and waldorf. Where the child is free to use imagination and is able to learn so much more. Dont know where im going with this story.. just wanted to express my gratitude. I wish all teachers were like you!
My memories of the Montessori preschool I attended are clear and extremely positive nearly 50 years later. I clearly remember cleaning out my paint brushes in the sink, and being awestruck on drying the brushes on a brown paper towel at the beautiful colors on the paper towel. They let me dry the paper towel and keep it-to me, that was the art I made. I still remember the sound of the water, the smell of the paper towel. This video feels a little like a passive aggressive hit job on Montessori, even if the intent was a good one, namely to generate discussion.
I just signed my daughter up for a Montessori school. You have certainly given me something to think about. I'd love to hear a rebuttal from a pro Montessori perspective. There's just so much that goes into finding what's right for each child and family. Thanks for sharing.
I trained in Italy in 1986-7 under Signorina Paolini, a colleague of Dr Montessori.
The grater/soap activity was not in our Practical Life set, although it can have a purposeful use.
I would not have it in my class, rather, I would have the child grating cartot/cheese/apple.
I felt that your observations were subtly biased as you insinuated that "work" is somehow not an appropriate word for children's activities.
Montessori children have just as many opportunities to use their imagination in free play however, the didactic materials (Sensorial/Math/Cultural) have a specific purpose. There are other materials which can be incorporated in imaginative play.
In my classroom the children looked forward to eating snack and lunch together. If a child chose to keep working with the materials, I would not force him/her to stop and eat!
The Montessori Approach has sadly, been misinterpreted from the beginning. The Montessori name is not patented, so anyone can put the name on their Centre. Also, Teacher training varies a great deal around the world so this makes it difficult to determine standards.
Dr Montessori believed that a child's imagination was forged from real life activity. It comes to the fore during the second plane of development, 6-12 years, where the study of Mythology, History and so many other "ologies" can be explored with great interest.
Hello, Grace! I am training to be a Montessori teacher. I would love to hear from you about your experience about the method. Could you please send me an e-mail?
thank you grace vella exactly!
Very well said.
I loved your video, thank you for sharing your thoughts! Here is a post I wrote called "A Montessori Teacher's Thoughts on Waldorf Education" and it might give more insight into the differences between Montessori and Waldorf.
As a Montessori 3-6 and 6-9 trained teacher, I have a lot of respect for Waldorf education, even though I was drawn to (fell in love with!) Montessori at a young age (23). And as a Montessori teacher, I have recommended it for a few children (usually two students per year) who were graduating from our 3-6 classroom, because I (we) felt it was a better choice for those particular children. Their interests, or should I say passions, were not with the Montessori materials, and certainly not academics like phonics and simple math, but instead they loved arts, crafts, practical life, the outdoors, and botany.
One of the attributes I like about Waldorf is its sensitivity for the development of the WHOLE child: mind, body, and spirit. Also, there is a lot of emphasis on fine motor (like weaving, knitting, sewing), nature, cooking, playing, arts and crafts, large motor play, story telling, poetry, songs, critical thinking, and literature.
Speaking of large motor, children really benefit from an emphasis on large motor movement activities, which aid in the function of right and left brain development: thus improving reading and writing skills between the ages of five and nine.
What I can say about child-hood development is that not all professionals agree that children as young as four, five and six should be doing academic work, that their right-brain and left-brain development is not completed, in fact, in some children, especially boys, it is delayed as compared to girls. And Waldorf takes this to heart--academic reading begins at age eight.
In Montessori, there is a Sensitive Period for Reading at age five (Sensitive Period for Writing at age 4 1/2). But there is another sensitive period for reading at age eight. And Waldorf waits until the second sensitive period at age eight to start teaching children how to read. Up until that age, the language focus in Waldorf is on the SPOKEN word through storytelling, poetry, songs, and verse.
If you think your child would do better (and be happier) in a Waldorf-style environment, with arts, crafts, cooking, large motor, fine motor, songs, story telling, and a lot less emphasis on academics until the later years... then Waldorf just might be the better choice.
Confessions of a Montessori Mom and x
Thanks for sharing
Excellent post! It was very illuminating. Thank you!
.
Thanks a lot for this informative post!
In my son’s Montessori School, they used the graters to grate veggies and they used knives to cut their veggies for snack. They would also use all sorts of baking tools to bake bread. I think the lesson you observed was simply to enhance fine motor skills and make it fun while incorporating a science lesson. Also, in his school they had solitary activities and group activities.
thanks a lot for this video, i searched for what is good for my kid , and i went to Montessori as the almost best method for a kid to learn with ., but guess what after deep searching now i am fond of Waldorf and totally changed my mind after i practice it with my kid just few times, it is really really peaceful , creative and full of knowledge and every aspect needed .
I am a Montessori teacher just wanted to shed light on your experience we also do cooking and baking in our classes but by giving them tools on the shelf like grating and whisking they can develop these skills everyday and whenever they want not just on someone's birthday. It's all about the child's inner need. We use old fashion orange squeezer its so sweet to watch a child squeezing orange and drinking the juice right after ...the child has mostly a real purpose when they work xx
We also develop imagination using a tray of different lentils rice and beans they mix them using spoons or tongs and imagine it's a magic portion x thanks for sharing your video it's always good to hear about different practices x
Waldorf kids cut and cook every week not just on birthdays, she said they bake "cakes" on bdays. they bake muffins and breads every week. Its good to hear abt orange juice and they drinking their "own" squeezed juice !
I was thinking the same unless your making 20 cakes not everyone would have an opportunity to whisk and pour etc... having work like that on the shelf satisfies some kids needs and also allow anyone and everyone the opportunity to master skills that will be used for other practical life work.
Let me star of by saying that I attende a Waldorf school form grades 7-10 and that I now, although I am not formally trained as a Montessori guide, work in a Montessori school primarily in the third stage of development, grades 8-10, but I also give music lessons in grades 1-7.
Your point about about there being a lot of individualism and individual work in Montessori education is true, but one component of a larger picture. Children, as you described, are free to choose their work and may work individually (this is the most true when the children are the youngest) but they may also observe each others work, take interest and join in on something another child is doing. This naturally happens more frequently as they grow older.
This is one of the reasons why it is so vital in Montessori classrooms to have mixed age groups, so that the younger children can be inspired by the work of the older, which they admire, and the older can learn responsibility and better familiarize them selves with the material by guiding the young. In Montessori schools, another important way to foster the scenes of community is taking care of the common environment, learning to tidy up and clean after your self, both individual and the class as a whole.
Now, to your point about doing real work, I am not qualified to speak of the youngest children, as I have little experience there, but this grows increasingly more important as the child matures. As the child reaches adolescence they will, ideally, live and work on a farm, governing their own economy, making real decisions about the farm, and engaging in real commerce with the wares they produce on the farm. In our school, students hold offices that oversee aspects of the farm work, such as animal leader, sales leader, economy leader, etc. All major decisions are taken democratically by the student body at our weekly "society meeting" (I'm not sure that is the correct English term, sorry). This is to mimic real society and prepare them to take their place in the real world.
Hello Sarah! I have 'fielded' the comparison/contrast question about Waldorf and Montessori over many years...one realization I have (although I remain open and
in flux with new thoughts over time...) is that in the Waldorf Early Childhood Classroom environment, the children are free during Creative Free Choice Play to seek out and gather their own materials and 'tools' from the corners, shelves and overall integrated space - designed for both individual and group activity. In the Montessori classroom, among the materials available, there are pre-cut shapes and forms available - on trays - for children to take up and 'assemble' into specific patterns or in a pre-determined order. It is referred to as 'work'... The 'assembly' of these items is intended to serve a specific 'pattern' for thinking and support of cognitive development - an approach which is unique to the Montessori brand. In the Waldorf classroom during 'Free Play' young children choose their own readily available materials. They are free to find their own use and purpose and end result! Play is highly regarded as 'work' for the young child. It may be said it is an essential part of the Waldorf Early Childhood teaching approach - to support the free-flowing, creative 'play' process of the young child. It leads to flexible and entrepreneurial thinking in adulthood! Guidance is available for the individual as needed within the Waldorf approach. Group activities underscore the development of social skills needed to live in community. Waldorf Early Childhood classroom life engages the children in learning age-appropriate pre-academic skills. Throughout the day in the classroom, there is a balance of active and reflective time to allow children to internalize impressions. With a focus on healthy adult and peer role modeling, children are free to learn through imitation within an integrated, 'natural flow' - as in the context of daily life.
Thank you for your helpful and thoughtful explanation, Susan.Very well stated and insightful! (P.S. I remember you from my time at Sunbridge and being part of the Spring Valley community.)
In REAL life/older times there are no pre-cut stuff in nature kids had been "learning" from for "cognitive" etc growth :)
@@euphoria156children need to learn exact sciences too......
Waldorf teaches how to think independently, creatively, and critically...unlocking ones own ability to learn. I attribute my Waldorf education as the single most valuable compass in my life (besides my mom!)
I realized something the more I learn about the 2 approaches and hear from former students themselves:
a) it depends on the child and what environment they would benefit most from - neither approach suits every child and
b) they each have slightly different goals. So it’s about defining your goals as a parent and determining which approach most aligns with your philosophy on how to get there. No matter how they’re educated- you still have to raise them at the end of the day so you need to make sure the school (or educational philosophy if you’re home schooling) compliments and aligns with what you’re going to do naturally and instinctively as a parent.
C) for use in the home as parenting approaches, they’re not completely mutually exclusive - you can easily combine the best aspects of both without it compromising the ability of one or the other to take hold in the child. Might take some skill on the parents part but it seems feasible. I think I might try it in the future.
Hi Sarah. I love your videos and beautiful toys on offer at Bella Luna. My son has attended Montessori school for the past two years and is going into first grade this fall. Some of the activities he has practiced over the past two years have included peeling and slicing carrots, cucumbers, hard-boiled eggs and various fruits and other veggies. The children who do this activity then walk about the classroom offering the snack to friends. However, as you mentioned, much of the lessons are done independently and solitary in the very early childhood years. As my son transitions into Montessori elementary (a blend of 6 to 12 year olds) there will be more collaborative work with various ages. Thank you for sharing this video. Waldorf and Montessori are both beautiful and I love how they help develop the whole child.
Thanks for your comment, Tracy. I am heartened to hear from all the Montessori teachers and families who assure me that food preparation and sharing food is a common practice in Montessori education. I know that catalogs of Montessori toys and products include many of the things we use in a Waldorf classroom: small brooms and mops, cleaning tools, and child-sized kitchen implements. These encourage children to become capable helpers, something that seems to be common to both philosophies.
Here in México we use the foamy soap to wash the cleaning clothes or our dolls clothing tío, ir even wash some dishes so yes, we have a purpose
The girl using the grater and egg beater did real work for a real purpose too, she was exploring and learning and trying new things and life is all about exploring and trying new things instead of doing the same thing over and over, she took a tool that was used 1 way for years and thought of another way to use it, that's inventive and creative.
if its done AFTER doing it the real way then its okay which is NOT done in Montessori, they dont cut/cook/eat together :)
if its done/taught AFTER its done for the real work/real way then its fine but in Montessori kids dont cut/cook/eat together :)
But then it was flushed down the toilet .
In my old school, the soapy water was used to wash things after, floor, clothes etc.
@@euphoria156 yes they do. I hope you didn't have a negative experience with Montessori. My children attend and i have also taught at an authentic Montessori school they do cut/cook and eat together. Whole group activities do not happen though during the uninterrupted workcycle in the morning which is what this teacher was observing. But yes, they do cut/cook/eat together.
Thanks for the video.i enjoyed it. In Montessori schools there is great importance in using practical life skills to help with real life experiences. Children do often prepare real snacks together, make eggs, or dips or breads, etc. :) I have observed children enjoy work best when it is for a real purpose so I like your thought about that. My grandma is a Montessori director and I was raised Montessori and have taught Montessori and I also love Waldorf and am learning about it.
Curious. You mentioned how the work with Montessori is much more independent, which I largely agree with. But did you see older students working on things together? My experience is you’re more likely to see a 3-year old working alone and more likely to see older students work on “bigger” projects together. Also, older students teaching younger students happens a lot. I love the dialog this video is bringing in the comments. I wish more of the internet had comment sections like this. Haha
this is very true my son is learning to read by working with an older student who will sound things out with him and talk about shared topics of interest. Often i am told he is being found in the library corner being read to by this older student. my son will be 5 and his classmate will soon be 6. he is also recognising large numbers because he has been working with the math rods with some other classmates. (He is intimidated by the one on one lessons with the guide so he typically has been joining with the older children in the class) I love the waldorf education system and how its all aptitude based but in many ways the following of the child in montessori serves the same purpose. :)
@@kickatat Very true. In my setup we generally have older kids leading the way and presenting jobs to younger and newer students that are new to our environment. A lot of social interaction and bonding happens during that time and actually allows the new child to settle in faster.
well, bigger kids HAVE to work together for bigger projects because they might not be ABLE to do it alone. Its just the need at that time.
@@kickatat I got some good insights from your comments. Many thanks.
I know this video is a few years old now and I haven’t read all the other comments - but in Montessori they would DEFINITELY also use the grater and egg beaters to make food and make a cake, etc. she happened to be doing it that day in school with soap but Montessori is all about doing practical every day life things. So using those tools for cooking would absolutely be something they’d also do at some point.
But having said that I adore some aspects of Waldorf and the fantasy and play aspect especially. Montessori doesn’t like to introduce fantasy or anything not realistic until after age 6. We kind of do a hybrid at home with our kids.
Ahhhh. I’ve purchased many toys from Bella Luna for my grandkids who go to a Waldorf school. How cool that Bella Luna is you!!
I’m a Waldorf kid, went to Green Meadow. I loved it.
In terms of clarifying individual vs. group snack, I believe it's the difference between interrupting a child in order to adhere to a snack time determined by the adult, or allowing the child to choose his/her own snack time in relation to how hungry or how focused that child is. When the adult says "It's time for snack" and everyone must come, there will be some children who are in the midst of deep focus that has now been disrupted by the adult. That child deserves to play for as long as desired rather than be interrupted according to the adult's timetable. If you've had the opportunity to observe lunch-time in a Montessori classroom, then you would have seen all the points made here about the benefits of eating together, setting the table, preparing the food, serving each other, and grace and courtesy. I like the idea of balance - snack enjoyed at the child's discretion, and lunch enjoyed as a group dynamic.
EXACTLY in a Montessori classroom building concentration and focus is so vital that breaking that focus to insist everyone eat snack doesn't make sense.
Lunch is a very communal activity in the Montessori classroom. So while the little snack is an independent work as needed, the entire class comes together to each as a community every lunch. It’s really beautiful.
I would have appreciated a bit more understanding of Montessori before sharing this video. Though I did appreciate that you heavily qualified your experience. Maybe you could have asked your Montessori friends about some of the assumptions you made. That would be a quick check: for example, hey sue, do they eat all meals alone?
Do you guys ever cook together as a class?
Both answers would surprise you I think. :)
I’m so glad for this opportunity to learn a bit more about Waldorf.
I think that the most important difference is that Waldorf has a spiritual point of view behind, Montessori has the scientific method.
Lorena da Silva Maria Montessori was actually quite religious. In her books she constantly refers to the spiritual development of the child as well.
Lorena da Silva Thank you so much for saying this! I missed this in the explanation! 🙏🏾
Scientific method? Not if you get the whole idea. Montessori spoke of the "spiritual embryo" THIS is what she was observing and worked to aid in the development of the whole child into a whole individual. It is a beautiful blend of both scientific and spiritual this is the WHOLE child. Some aspects of Montessori have moved more toward the scientific but others understand the WHOLE idea. Full self-actualization is a spiritual experience of a scientific process.
@@sarapeflores It is a diffrent beetween spiritual and religiously. Here it is need to know a deep meaning of christianity. Then you can know the meaning of Steiner`s though "education for freedom".
I grew up as a Waldorf kid in Germany and then was a Montessori administrator and parent as an adult. Love both.
I think it’s really good that the children are doing so many things independently. It’s good for children to learn to interact socially, but it’s also good for children to learn self reliance.
Montessori philosophy is based heavily on practical life skills. They do cook together. They wait to eat as they say gratitude. My Daughter's school actually says the 5 favorite Waldorf gratitudes! www.themagiconions.com/2016/04/5-favorite-waldorf-mealtime-blessing-verses.html
As an atheist/ agnostic, I love these little verses, because they teach gratitude without religious indoctrination. (Although some religious institutions do host Montessori and Waldorf schools, too.)
At my daughter's Montessori, the children grow a garden and make food. The upper Elementary students even make fruit & veggie juices and sell them on special event days.
On birthdays, they don't make birthday cake, because they don't do sugar, but they do have a "celebration of life". The birthday child brings some photographs from home, their parents are invited, and the child gets to talk a little bit about each year of their life, so far. The children sing a little song about the year and the birthday child gets to walk around each month of a round calendar rug. The teacher lights a candle on the top of a special earth globe in the middle. When the child gets to their birth month, they stop and then go blow out the candle on the top of the earth.
Every Montessori material is meant to build on a skill for the next. Through simple, incremental work/ play, the foundations of geometry and fractions (for two examples) are already being learned in pre-k and kindergarten. And not just basic shapes, but concepts like parallel, acute, obtuse, etc. So that when they are old enough to start using numbers to work with a concept, they've already developed a very tangible grasp of the concept.
Some people grate soap to make laundry detergent - real work. Why set limits for how a tool can be used? Graters are used for all sorts of things.
Just because they use graters for soap does not mean they don't use other graters for food.
Thank you for having the courage and heart to express your thoughts and observations. I was present in a Montessori Kindergarten when a child ate the soap, from the activity tray you have mentioned in the video.
Oh no, I'm the school I went to we used the soapy water for cleaning with after..floor clothes eyc.
Thank you for sharing - I’m researching styles and techniques for early childhood education and resources and I found this to be quite helpful!
Hi Sarah, Thank you so much for having the courage and empathy to put your perspective out here. I really appreciate your gentle but candid approach to subjects.
I have a four year old that I have been trying to decide on an alternative schooling model for and it can be difficult to discect the true nature of the different styles if you don't have personal experience with it. I feel like both Montessori and Waldorf are effective teaching models and it is really just a matter of what speaks to you and your child. But it is so nice to get your perspective to confirm the differences I suspected myself. Although both styles are great I can only choose one school for my child to attend.
And thank YOU, B T for your thoughtful comment. I agree 100% that both are effective teaching models that recognize the spiritual nature of the child. And I agree that a parent should choose what speaks most strongly to them, and which community feels like the best fit for your family. As I've told others, trust your intuition. It rarely lies!
Hello, just yesterday I watched a video of a celebrity talking about Waldorf education and it really sparked my Interest. I am thankful for the education I received growing up and I am thankful for my parents wanting me to have an education. I’m in college now and I can’t help but want to learn more of what everyone else has learn and is learning in a Waldorf school. I love that you have videos out sharing what you teach the children and so on. I want to learn more about Waldorf education but for someone my age College level.
I apologize I posted this before finishing what I’m trying to say. I want to know if there’s a way I can learn and challenge myself through. Waldorf education at college level?
This was so helpful to watch, thank you. I am a child development student and I feel at home in alternative education methods. It's been difficult to pinpoint which method I'd like to use both as a homeschool mom and as a professional when I work for my master's degree. But really, this cleared everything up.
Thank you so much Sarah for this video. I like the way you are being sensitive about Montessori education. As a Montessori teacher, I am also sensitive towards waldorf education :). Concerning the grating of the soap. Yes, soap, chalk, crayons etc can be used for grating in a Montessori classroom. These are also extended during cooking activities in little groups eg. grating cheese/ carrots. The idea here is about the child practicing and mastering a particular skill leading to independence of the child.
I enjoyed this video very much.
Waldorf is not concept heavy, it won't bombard you with concepts or academics for you to memorize. What is provided to you is an environment where you can come up with your own concepts out of what you carefully observe. If you are used to being fed information that someone else came up with, Waldorf would not be the environment for you. Waldorf makes independent learners and playing and drawing is just a part of bringing learning a step further. For example, you don't just learn about Botany, you get to draw and paint plants; you also get to water them and grow them in their natural environment. For those who understand Waldorf at a deeper level, everything included in its curriculum has the purpose of creating integrative learning in a very successful way. I absolutely love Waldorf education and I am grateful my son's entire education will be in a Waldorf school. He is in 8th grade now.
This was so interesting to see! My husband is a Waldorf teacher. Our youngest started in transitional Kinder last year. And will be continuing this year. When we first met many years ago I was a single parent with my oldest daughter in a Waldorf home preschool with a teacher I just loved. Very small school. I loved so much about the Waldorf approach that I was determined to start the Kindergarten at our local Waldorf school. Private, very expensive. I qualified for “financial aid” as it were, but even so I was working full time and going to grad school, just worked really hard to make it happen. Which was a wonderful experience for her.
The next year she went to a smaller school which was based on Waldorf methods, also not cheap, but made it work. We moved around and she did some time in public school here and there but we always came back to Waldorf school (3rd grade, 4th grade, 6th grade, 7th & 8th grade... sometimes Waldorf charter schools).
With our other children they got to experience early childhood education again with Waldorf schools.
My question to you is we may be looking at a move somewhat soon to another county where there is one big private Waldorf school that has an amazing reputation but costs more than my college education.
It would pain my heart to put them in regular public schools but there are no Waldorf charters nearby.
Right now my kids attend the Waldorf Charter school where my husband teaches. Do you have any suggestions?
Ive never heard of a Montessori public school but maybe they are out there? Years ago I inquired into a private Montessori as an alternative for one of our children but it was even more costly than the Waldorf one nearby.
Some schools offer scholarships of sorts but I would have to be looking at at least 95% tuition remission at the prospective school for this to work for our family. I do still love the Waldorf experience and hope my children may continue to benefit from it. Thank you!
p.s. forgot to mention we have been ordering from Bella Luna toys for years. My 6 yo still adores her heavy baby. She named her Sweet Pea.
xo
Thank you so much for your comments, Mother Muse. Yours is a predicament many families who desire a Waldorf education for their child face -- either the tuition is unaffordable, or the nearest school is too far away. I am not aware of any public charter schools based on Montessori methods, but there may be. Perhaps one of the Montessori teachers will chime in here. There are wonderful curricula materials available for Waldorf homeschoolers, but if you work outside the home and this is not an option, my advice would be to choose the best school in your new community that you can find and/or afford, and bring Waldorf elements into your home -- through stories, rhythms of the day, spending time outdoors in nature, and so forth. Being able to attend a Waldorf school is wonderful if it's an option, but a child's home life affects them more deeply than school life. Providing a loving home and fostering a lifelong love of learning will go a long way in raising children to become secure, free thinking, and interesting adults.
I send my daughter you a public charter Montessori and we love it! So free education is out there!! Best of luck
@@SundaywithSarah - "but a child's home life affects them more deeply than school life. Providing a loving home and fostering a lifelong love of learning will go a long way in raising children to become secure, free thinking, and interesting adults." that is so true and so beautiful !
I think if you yourself become a waldorf teacher or assistant, your children's education can be free or you can get a lot of discount.
That story about the beater is interesting, but the thing is the material, soap bubbles and all are always available daily for the child to use. if the need is strong then the child is able to even repeat the activity as many times as they like. repetition is always encouraged.
Okay it’s called a whisk not a beater.
Montessori also uses kitchen tools for food preparation. It depends on the directress and her style of educating. I would then take bubbles and have a work of washing a baby (bath) or use it for washing clothing. The lessons we give can be based on everyday living skills along with math, science etc. we have group snacks and group birthday celebration. Walk around sun. We also have a snack table for 4 children to enjoy socializing and meal prep. Children are able to work in groups and independently. There are so much more to Montessori than you had in that one observation. I am curious about your observation of play and how they naturally learn how to count, write name and learn sounds?
Interesting that you would talk about the difference between two methods, but knowing only one...
which she did address early in the video and multiple times throughout
I think the BIGGEST difference, I'm my opinion , between Montessori and Waldorf is that Waldorf use a lot of imaginative tools (fairies, etc) wheres as Montessori is based on what is real. There's also more of a philosophical aspect in Waldorf with anthroposophy even though Montessori also emphasizes on the spirit of the child, but not as much with candles or verses for ex.
1perle thank you for pointing this out!! I’m surprised that I don’t hear this more often!!!!! That is indeed the BIGGEST difference! 🙏🏾
If I went to a Montessori school I’d never take a math class because I dont like math. But then what happens when you want to do a career that requires a college degree and you missed out on classes you’ll need? I don’t like reading, but I had to read articles in books in public school and English was one of my best classes. If I only focused on my interests I would just be exercising, singing, and in Spanish class. I did have to do a woodworking class which I struggled with but it taught me things and I had to take art classes which mainly taught me how to deal with difficult teachers. I would be fine today without taking many classes as I never took physics, but I wouldnt if I never did things I didnt want to do.
The example of the soap where it was grated....she could have used it to wash her hands and that would have been the practical application.
i am in love with montessori all the way, but i have also found it beneficial to take some things from waldorf like the singing/rhythym for certain things that we need to do like brushing teeth and bathing etc... it works for younger kids
"real work for a real purpose." Waldorf education gives life and context to what children are learning.
Another big difference is that Waldorf education is teacher led, where Montessori is very much child led from the start.
In or Montessori school we use the graters to make carrot salad , but i love the soap idea, must be so much fun :-)
If my child could get educated by either one, am sure he will be happy and successful in life. Thanks for the info. I had never heard of a waldrof education
I would have loved to hear that they used the soap instead of dumping it. That would have taught conservation and utilization in the task. I like both schools of thought on how they teach children to actually know how to live in the world around them. While also being polite. 👍👍Mine are over the age for either of these schools, which I wish extended further.
Thanks for watching, and for your comment, @WhyDreamOrdinary. I too would have like to have seen the soap being used for a purpose after having been grated. Like being used to wash cloth napkins perhaps.
That's a great idea! I'll keep this in mind when doing the grating soap activity. The soap can be used in so many other activities!
The soap can be preserved in a plastic bottle and also be used to felt wool (nuno technique)
In a Scottish montessori pre-k classroom, I observed the leftover grated soap being kept and used as toothpaste along with a dental model and toothbrush. There were always children waiting for their turn to brush the model teeth, it was a very popular activity.
But still, it's not actually brushing one's own teeth with real toothpaste, and the "toothpaste" had no further use beyond this activity.
I had the same feeling !
Wonderful comparison between the two philosophies. I run a home based Montessori Preschool and have the liberty to have a blend between the way work is done in a Montessori setup and maybe a Waldorf setup. We grate carrots and potatoes that we then use in either carrot salads or baked patties. My students wash the rags that they have used in the classroom to clean up spills, make orange juice during snack time and politely invite their friends over to share it with them, load their dishes in the dishwasher and its not a shelf job but real application. All I am trying to say is that Dr. Maria Montessori's goal was not for the students to only use the didactic materials but realize the true application of it in real life. She also believed that a child at work requires the quiet during work time to develop will and focus to work on a material.
In a Montessori school, children have a snack as soon as they come in after washing their hands, since not all of them come in at the same time. However, they break bread at the same time and make conversation that the teacher/guide may initiate, or anyone else. And they practice setting the table, pouring, serving, picking up, cleaning, and so on...
yes Montessori encourages independence, and also team work as well as group work. Not only will an older child teach/guide a younger child, but so many times a young child will teach/guide an older child and this is why Montessori has different ages in a group like in a family.
Montessori encourages developing the child’s imagination with the reading on the science, the immensity of the universe, the knowledge of the geography, the beauty of nature, and the discovery of the earth evolution. Montessori encourages the child to appreciate the artes by classifying colors, shapes, and volumes with the sensorial material. The method encourages the development of the language by the classification of all objects with the proper name. It develops the mathematical mind in each child starting with the sensorial material like the pink tower, brown stairs and red rods.
And Montessori will always encourage the independence of the child by letting him/her choose the work he/she needs to satisfy their inner soul.
Thank you for initiating this conversation.
For those whom may think it will not be beneficial to have their child attend a Waldorf or Montessori school due to constant moving or economic reasons you can always have your home set up with these methods/philosophies. The child that attends these schools adopt easier to a traditional school than the other way around. Children in a traditional school that come into theses schools don’t know what to do with the independence the have been given. An independent child ( one that has been in Montessori) understands rules, has a critical thinking and adopts much easier.
My daughter goes to a Montessori school and they do use tools to make meals on a regular basis. 🙂
I use a grater to grate soap to make laundry detergent...so I'd say they are using the appropriately. Although, yes, as other have said, I would love to see them use the soapy water instead of dumping.
You are absolutely correct that work should be meaningful for children. I am a Montessori teacher and a teacher trainer and the work should have a motive or a purpose. In most classrooms those soapsuds would’ve been transferred to a work and used for scrubbing. They would’ve been used for scrubbing a table or the floor or some other piece of equipment in the classroom that needed cleaning. So I think that if you look at enough Montessori classrooms the good ones do have purposeful activities. Maria Montessori called it the motive of activity. And in terms of snacktime most schools allow the children to ask a partner to join them and it is a very social time and not a solo time. So you will see many different things in different Montessori classrooms but grace and courtesy and a sense of community or a very big part of a Montessori classroom. Thank you for your video.
Hello @sphester1, nice to read your view on different montessori schools.
Really liked your viewpoint on the theory of 'motive of activity'. From what all I have read and heard and experienced about the two, I believe how it will be different in waldorf as 'motivation of activity'
For example, the difference that in Montessori, 'most schools allow the children to ask a partner to join them', while in Waldorf, that would be 'encouraged' or even 'mandatory' because it focusses more on collective thinking, community driven approach, intrinsic motivation, and not all-rounder thinking, individualistic learning and learning to differentiate between work and play.
Do share your thoughts if your experience has been different I would be glad to hear from you!
Hi sarah, i love the way how you explained the waldorf. We dont have many waldorf-sian edu system in Indonesia. So i will learn it from you.
Hay Sarah! One tool can be use in many different activities or work! Just to let you know that I use a spoon to curl my eye lashes, so if the child is experiment some work with a kitchen tool I don’t see any negative on doing that.
I don't feel observing just one classroom just one day is enough info on a style because each school and teacher adds their own flavor to it and some are more "authentic" than others. Recently I observed 3 different classrooms in a school and have been researching and networking a lot about various early childhood education styles. One thing I've been repeatedly seeing and being advised on is how different each teacher is. Despite that, I did find this video and especially its comments interesting. I encourage everyone to deep-dive research and closely observe things for themselves then research more. Some info takes more time to find but is important and can be very surprising.
Talking of snacks... The idea is that there's no such thing as fixed time (apart from lunch time - which is indeed done socially and as community). There shouldn't be "snack time" as it would abruptly interrupt the deep activity/ focus the child is putting into her/his work, which would ultimately lead to mastering the skill s/he is developing. Having said that, very interesting comparison, thanks for sharing!
With Montessori it is not free "play" time. Work and play are one thing. It is activity and work and play developing different aspects the WHOLE child is always present engaging in different activities. The key observer sees the whole at all timers. She or he is like the conductor of a huge symphony if activity.
thanks william paul
This was interesting to watch as someone who was in a Montessori preschool and a Waldorf school from Class 1 until halfway through Class 8 (not to mention who is facing the prospect of teaching English at a Waldorf school in Japan). Thank you.
By the way, that necklace matches your eye colour in the loveliest way. :)
Hello sarah
Btw from what I know Tolstoy's ideas on education are similar to Steiner's in many ways, so I'm interested if somebody has done any rigorous comparison, because Tolstoy was not only a great writer but also a great teacher indeed.
I haven't heard of Waldorf too often; however, the heart, hands and head way of learning I am familiar with.
i'd like to add another fact about the term 'work' in the Montessori context (adolescent Montessori guide here). Dr. Montessori believed that work (among many other attributes) is a universal human tendency. our job as adult guides is to prepare and maintain an environment that allows children to independently choose and direct their own work and therefore their own learning and growth. trusting that people of every age want to be active and grow themselves is a key cornerstone to the philosophy that guides it all. then it's a matter of preparing an environment that responds to the developmental needs of the children. as adolescents, that means opening up to the larger society, working together to maintain a farm environment (where their work very much matters), creating products that they sell, making money to decide what to do with, etc. they are living together in practice society where they all have a place and purpose.
With Montessori, it looks different at every plane of development because they need different things, but the idea is that we provide space and freedom for them to self-develop through their own work.
Among people who study "play" (specifically, recreation and game design), it's generally accepted that work and play are the same thing. It's understood that humans thrive on challenging work, and games are considered a subset of work with specific characteristics (voluntary engagement, artificial restrictions, and a few others). Humans of all ages, when doing unfulfilling work, will frequently turn their work into a game, usually in the form of self-imposed time challenges ('I bet I can pack the next box faster than you can') or restrictions ('I'm gonna fold the next 3 shirts one-handed'). Work is what humans do; play is when we choose to do it. Dr Montessori was right.
@@derinedala5032 Such a cool explanation and yes Dr. Montessori was truly gifted in her understanding about people and the universe.
Your lack of knowledge of Montessori’s theories is astounding considering that you have been teaching for 20 years. You should read up. Makes me truly wonder about the validity of Waldorf’s techniques considering that you couldn’t recognize the value of what you saw. Either you have a strong confirmation bias, or you’re not truly interested in furthering your knowledge.
I completely agree. Implying grating carrots is more useful than grating soap demonstrates her lack of understanding that providing the motive for movement is what the children truly need and desire in the classroom. It's not about the product, but about the work.
alonzo boschulte thank you !
Read up on Steiner, the founder. I was shocked.
Encouraging childrens imaginations is a good thing, obviously. But not the way stiener did.
Montessori elementary school is very collaborative. Right or wrong, Montessori observed, with all the biases that any individual has, that young children had the need for independent work.
That bubble work might be a vestigial chore from before mass distribution of laundry detergent and dish soap. It might have been a practical work when it was created by an earlier Montessori teacher.
My son helps prepare snack in his Montessori school using hand choppers and apple slicers to cut fruit and vegetables. He had also used a grater to grate cheese and cinnamon sticks. Some schools may not allow kids to handle food too much. It's not really authentic Montessori though.
That's interesting about the soap example - what I've seen elsewhere is that Montessori has a big emphasis on doing real things for a real purpose, just as she's saying waldorf does. Maybe on that point they are similar, and the soap example was an outlier.
Someone needs to grab all the good parts of both these styles and put them together.
I love love LOVE the designing-the-room-and-activities-to-make-it-easier-to-pack-up-when-you're-done of Montessori, because as an adult, this is something I reaaaally struggle with. I wish I'd learned to pack up after myself as a toddler! It's hard to communicate just how debilitating it is to struggle so hard with this; if you don't, you just can't understand what it's like. So I'm trying to teach my toddler this so that it can become almost innate.
I don't know much about Waldorf but I like what I'm hearing in this video about the dress up and emphasis on play. As far as I'm concerned, play *is* learning, it's what it's for. Kids have a built in desire to play because it's the best way (the only way?) to learn. Experiment, role-play, explore, have a go and see what happens! Playing is learning, learning is playing. Different types of play results in learning different things.
I have a great observational story:two groups of children went outside to play. They both saw a pile of rocks. The Montessori children categorized the rocks by size small, medium, large.
The Waldorf children took the rocks and made a house for the fairies........nuff said
Waldorf education simply the best.
i wonder why both of those responses to a pile of rocks aren't equally celebrated if the child decided to do it that way...? why is one response better to you?
I agree, whats the "USE" of categorizing? Thats what they call "academic" and Waldorf teaches "Life" how to take care of others and oneself
This is a note worthy observation. Very important to see what and how children learn, leading to what. More of such observations would be welcome.
@@mitalibaxi5788 My child goes to Montessori and she plays with rocks, plays with anything and thrives in her Montessori environment LOL i think that was something that child wanted to do I don't think it's research. As the old saying goes correlation is not causation. Meaning just because the less imaginative child correlated with being from the Montessori school is not evidence that Montessori causes lack of creativity. It just means that particular child on that particular day categorized those rocks and then would maybe build with them once they were organized who knows?!
Our Montessori school practiced togetherness and manners at snack time. All the kids were looking forward to snack time.
I love the practical work the Waldorf schools and kindergardens are doing, but I'm somewhat put off/troubled by the religious/occult ideas that stand behind this.
For example, Steiner assumes his interpretation of karma and reincarnation as fact, and calls upon Waldorf educators to "read" children along those lines. Anthroposophy claims that children choose their own parents, that hereditary disease is the direct result of karmic guilt, etc.
Also, the assumption that humans consist of four distinct "bodies" which aren't all present at birth leads to all sorts of projections, and is one of the reasons why Waldorf children are discouraged from learning to read and write before their second teeth appear.
And of course, there's the tempers: sorting children into outdated psychological stereotypes based on "humors".
I am sorry, i didnt understand your last line- And of course, there's the tempers: sorting children into outdated psychological stereotypes based on "humors".could u pls explain it more?
There's 1 more thing I dont like abt Waldorf that the Teacher has all the poer/control and no principal if a parent has a concert. u r just at the mercy of the teacher for YEARS !
@@euphoria156 choleric, phlegmatic, sanguine, melancholic. In ages past, people not only believed in the four classical "elements", but also that our pschological profile was based on the slight imbalance of the same, manifest in a surplus of certain bodily fluids.
Accordingly, easily angry kids are choleric (too much gall), carelessly happy kids have too much blood (sanguine), lazy kids have too much phlegm (slime) and self-absorbed, brooding kids have too much "black gall" (melancholic).
Steiner insisted that this compartmentalisation was accurate, and told teachers to sort their students accordingly. His contemporary pioneers in the field of modern psychology, on the other hand, were mostly ignored in Anthroposophy. Steiner despised Freud as a materialistic Jew, and hated his thesis that we are sexual beings from birth.
According to Steiner's model of Man, being sexual before the age of 21 is basically pathological and harmful.
The spirit of the founder always pervades in any foundation. In digging into the differences, I noticed a lot of former teachers and students talked about being bullied, Magic, witchcraft (try reading an exercise by Father Amorath in Italy, or being in a haunted house), and then started reading what Rudolf Steiner wrote. What better way to know a program then to read what the founder write? I was shocked by the stuff he wrote!
No one is talking about how Steiner was an occultist, talked about concealing stuff from parents unless they were on board, believed in reincarnation and praying/singing to the gods of the elements. Said that children shouldn't learn to read till 14, and warp reality with gnomes. The more I read his stuff, the more satanic and pagan...not to mention unscientific. well, he was an occultist, God have mercy on his soul.
I think the story at 5:30 is quite trivial. The child using a grater for soap and an egg beater for agitating the soapy water are examples of a child using tools for divergent purposes, what's your point? That the utensils are being used wrong? That Montessori kids don't cook whereas Steiner kids do? Or is it that Steiner is more focused on reality and proper usefulness of objects? If either of the educative approaches is focused on 'reality' it is certainly Montessori.
@Dash Dandelion
The point I was trying to make is that both methods of education are excellent and that any family that has the choice to send their child to one or the other is lucky indeed.
Since I am often asked about the differences between the two methods, I decided to share my observations, stressing that my perspective was as a Waldorf teacher--observing one classroom for one day. I stated that I am not an expert in Montessori education, so I am grateful for all the thoughtful and respectful conversation that has taken place here in the comments. My Montessori colleagues have given me more insight for which I am appreciative. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that one method was better than the other then I failed in my intent.
I think it's wonderful that parents who are seeking more information on either method might find this video and read these comments and have a better understanding of the differences. I always stress that parents should choose a school for their child that most speaks to their heart.
By the way, I am planning a future video with a good friend who is a Montessori teacher in which we can have a dialogue about the similarities and differences. I have other colleagues who are drawing from both methods in their teaching.
Thanks for watching the video and for taking the time to add your comment.
That's a great story, and was very helpful in understanding Waldorf vs Montessori.
We have just started looking at pre schools for my daughter and would love if you/your guests could do something that helps understand Waldorf vs. Steiner vs. J. Krishnamurthy vs. the "Finland style of education" vs. Montessori as well. There are schools which offer all these different styles, and as a novice in this space, I am completely lost
Waldorf=Steiner
For sake of argument, isn’t it great to use tools which are design for kitchen or other type of activities in different ways? I like the example with the soap, it widens the horizons, next day the kid will see mom at home beating eggs ect with the same tool...as a child and later I liked to brainstorm with other people what else could we use a chosen item for... it’s fun :)
Sounds like you observed an inauthentic Montessori School.
You observed a Montessori school that lack of kitchen, or even practical life area. That is not really Montessori house. A Montessori child can work in kitchen with cooker or teacher, laundry, cleaning the house.... I do not think child should play in kitchen area, or practical life activities. Overall, work or play is just the way adult named the activities.
Something I would like to call attention to is that Maria Montessori did not trade-marked her name; and sadly, any school can say they are Montessori just because they use some of the Montessori materials she created. As you described the eggbeater/bubbles scenario, it made me wonder if this particular place is an actual Montessori trained school. In a real Montessori school, children use the eggbeater to beat eggs, knife for cutting veggies and fruit, grater to grate carrots, apples, etc. and every tool to do exactly what that tool is intended to do. This and many other activities, including self-care and care for the environment, are part of the Practical Life Curriculum that helps children develop self-reliance, independence, cooperation, cleanliness, organization, and many other important qualities.
You also mentioned a "free-play time" (in Montessori is called work) and called the materials on the shelves "toys" when they are not. I have been a Montessorian for many years and would love to add to the discussion that these are materials used to develop the various aspect of a child's whole.
The shelves are organized in a way that all the materials are at child's level so they can reach every activity available to them. These areas include Sensorial, Mathematics, Practical Life, Language, Science. These subdivide into other areas such as botany, geography, geometry, grammar, and so on... In order for one to be able to make a fair comparison between Montessori and Waldorf education, one has the responsibility to get really acquaintance with both disciplines.
Sarah, I appreciate that you are honest by saying that you are not a Montessori expert of any sort. However, I would suggest that you read and really familiarize yourself with the Montessori approach to education in order to be able fairly inform your audience, as opposed to just making a comparison based on the observation of a place which sounds like might not be really following real Montessori principles. Or invite a seasoned Montessorian to the discussion. (^_^)
I really liked this Video, thank you for making it and informing us ! I definitely go for Waldorf here !
Very interesting. Especially the statement about using the words work or play. But Work is a job. Although there are other benefits to having a job other than getting paid. Bottom line The word work implies labor & responsibilities. Which has a psychological effect on us adults. But if a children is conditioned to see work as play,, or if they’re trying to motivate the child to believe or think that works should be play. That’s interesting as well. But it also can be kind of manipulative. To suddenly or subconsciously condition the child to be a good laborer. If the child grows up to be an adult,, and he does not enjoy his work,, he or shy might not be happy. When they discovered that there is no play in the work that they are doing. Because in their minds after years of conditioning,, to them there should be no difference between work and play. Or everything is work and play. I could be stretching it there. It is rare that people would associate work,, with play or fun. For me personally,, I think there should be a difference between work and play. There can be work that is fun and playful. But more often than not,, work is not fun. But there is play is more closely associated with fun. No one plays,, without the intent of fun. So I personally would choose the word play.
I'm curious, how does Waldorf accommodate introverted children?
Estelle I can’t answer your question too technically but I was almost fully Waldorf educated (grade 2-10th) and I absolutely loved it - as an extrovert it was definitely a great place for me to grow. My brother on the other hand only made it to 1st grade with Waldorf education, it just didn’t sit well with him. He’s very introverted and often got in trouble at school for getting frustrated by the group atmosphere and acting out. Ultimately it wasn’t a good fit for him and I think it was largely because of the classroom dynamic (not just curriculum but classmates and his teachers as well) I think maybe it would have been different with a different group of people but maybe not.
I was Waldorf educated and an introvert... I came from a public school system (I had been to three schools and home schooled) prior to Waldorf and entered in 2nd grade. My impression was that I was bullied less (I was bullied in my other schools), that I had a teacher I loved, that I loved making crafts (I knitted my very own stuffed lion and made his mane from wool), loved music time, loved painting in watercolors, and loved the smell of beeswax when we made beeswax animals with a story. The holidays were always full of magic and wonder. I got to explore crystal caves and roast chestnuts. I made lanterns, and believed in the wonder of the world.
I only spent three years at Waldorf before my family moved... but to this day they are some of my favorite memories, and most definitely my favorite place to learn out of all of the places I have received an education.
I am now what I’d call an ambivert. I appreciate my own space, and I am not lonely on my own. I love to read. However having the warmth of friends and enjoying music, games, food, and walks together are also favorite activities.
Not the soy sauce and rice! Eating (and hating) that is my most vivid memory from my Waldorf preschool
The bubbles story is a representation of creativity, that goes beyond activities focus solely on porpuse. Creative mind goes with the hand of self steem, and an effective prooven way in developing a helthy self steem in a child is by valuying their creative thinking in action. And I believe those are the lessons they take in life to become more self assured and proactive adults...Thank you for sharing.
Hi Sarah, my son was in a Montessori school (we call it Kindergarten, he was 4 at the time) for a year. He never wanted to go, the mornings were a fight every day. I guess he lacked a close relationship to the teachers and to the other kids. He felt much more safe in a normal school, where they did more as a whole group. If you or somebody else reads that - any suggestions for the school from the age of 5/6 - 10? Would Waldorf be better?
Yes my son never Wanted to go to his Montessori school either, ended up pulling him out and home schooling
Such a great video, it helps me understand the differences:) thank you!!