Band of Brothers | Episode 8 - The Last Patrol | Reaction and Review
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
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TV Series: Band of Brothers (2001)
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:04 Episode Reaction
19:13 Thoughts and Review
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Though this is my least favourite episode, it's still such an amazing one. This entire series is so highly rated, and is even better on second watch through (which I do while editing)!! I would love to see more interaction with Winters and Nixon, they have such a great friendship 🥰
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This episode is your favorite? Why?
David Webster is the chocolate bar guy. “He never tasted chocolate”
9:47 Martin is pissed at Webster because if he hadn't spoken to Lt. Jones and gotten Malarky dropped from the patrol then he wouldn't have had to be a part of it, much less lead it. Wester meddled and as a result put Martin in harms way.
Completely understandable why Martin is pissed, this episode had me confused at times so I'm glad to get some clarification!
@@VerowakReactsIt’s just as well as this is the episode that takes the greatest liberty with historical reality. In fact, neither Webster or Martin were on this patrol. Webster was actually in the position Leibgot is shown in the show (manning a machine gun on a balcony giving covering fire to the returning platoon.) The OP is entirely correct for the fiction shown, but they used core characters to keep viewers engaged. The guys who went were no less special than other Easy guys, they were just guys whose names aren’t at the forefront of the ensemble cast.
@@dgpatter Unfortunate in a sense, but for the production it would make sense to use characters that have been seen beforehand
4:49 Generally that's how officers come to their leadership positions. They go to a military academy, in this case the United States Military Academy at Westpoint, NY. They receive training there and effectively graduate as commissioned officers with the rank of 2nd Lieutenant. In the context of an infantry unit that typically means they get put in charge of a platoon of soldiers. If they're smart they will rely on the experience and wisdom of their NCO's (non-commissioned officers) whom they outrank to help them learn the ropes. They are, however, superior to all enlisted men regardless of how long they've been in the military.
Lipton is about to become the exception to this by getting a battlefield commission which effectively means he demonstrated such leadership capabilities that they offered him a commission as an officer without having to go to an academy. If I'm not mistaken, this is strictly a war-time thing. When the war ends, if he wanted to remain in the Army he'd have to go to Officer Candidate School.
This all stems from a time when military officers were part of the aristocracy where as the men they led were commoners. One's rank did not depend on his skill, competence or experience but rather his birth. Though, to be fair, often it also came from the fact that the leader of those men was the one who paid and equipped them. But that's beside the point.
Thanks for the info! I definitely did not know any of this while watching, but on rewatch I will have a different understanding on what the ranks means (espeically when it comes to Lipton)
I think for WWII, the army wasn't relying on aristocracy to pick officers, but rather would pick those who had higher education to be commissionned as officer. I may be wrong but I recall reading that Webster could have joined as an officer because he was a harvard student, but he wanted to be in the rank.
@@VerowakReacts Pre-20th century officers were (generally) wealthy landed gentry, and military commissions were often bought, if not then the requisite education (often through a military college) was expensive and only really available to the rich. The result is that while officers had superior education their level of competence was highly variable, especially at higher ranks where political connections, wealth, and nepotism were the accepted norm and thus rife. This began to change as the 19th century progressed but it is the massive armies and battles of WW1, with its extraordinary casualties, that saw the old practices replaced with a more specialised, professional officer core open to educated men of the middle classes and up (mostly, to be an officer you still generally needed some form of recognised higher education which largely precluded the poor). The casualties of WW1 also sees a huge (comparatively) jump in battlefield commissions - meaning the promotion of enlisted men in the field after a demonstration of competence and/or heroism. This episode demonstrates some of this.
Winters and Nixon were educated men who volunteered for the military as the US army expanded explosively following Pearl Harbor, as educated men they were offered (and accepted) officer candidate school as their form of basic training. In contrast, Lipton was not identified as a college-educated volunteer and thus was an enlisted man he received non-commissioned (below any commissioned officer) rank increases with his displays of excellent leadership and finally that reached the level of a battlefield commission (in part because of the steady attrition of experienced officers especially after Bastogne). Then outside of this, there are the prestigious professional military colleges, the most notable in the US being West Point, these are well-regarded military/educational training colleges aimed (with variable success) at producing a core of professional (not simply enlisted for the "War"), highly educated officers - especially for the staff officer positions. This is where Lt. Jones enters, he is a West Point graduate - a fast track to a higher command officer's general staff (a staff officer is the beating heart of supply, logistics, intel, planning, and such). Generally at this stage in the US forces new military college graduates were first sent for a limited time into a forward line position to get "battlefield" experience - as happens here and then promoted up to a general staff command role.
@@VerowakReacts To understand the difference between a staff and a field officer role it is illustrative to compare Winters (who was initially a frontline officer in charge of a fighting platoon) and Nixon (who initially made a quasi-low-level staff role as the Battalion Intel officer - working between Battalion and Regimental levels). Nixon, despite multiple combat drops, is never in the heart of combat and at one stage comments he has yet to fire his weapon in battle, he is close (being regimental and not general staff) to the frontline, but not on the frontline. Whereas, in the early episodes Winters is right at the sharp end of battle. Then as Winters is promoted to Battalion CO he moves from a frontline role to a higher command role - and gets his own staff (the assistant you see in episode 5) to support him - if he had continued to rise in rank he would have coordinated larger formations and the size of his "staff" support would have increased alongside him. For example, Nixon is (mostly) working as part of the staff of Col. Sink.
Lt. Jones was promoted to General staff, meaning, literally, the large staff that supports an officer of one of the 'General' ranks (coordinating, supplying, and generally supporting units of Division [10,000+ men] of greater (Corps are multiple Divisions, Armies are multiple Corps, and Army Groups are multiple Armies).
Being chosen for OCS (officer candidate school) depended largely on your major, I read a book written by a man with a degree in sociology who was drafted as an enlisted man. You are correct in not relying on aristocracy as any person may become an officer if determined and skilled enough.@@paulkauphart9444
As I'm sure others will say, Webster was the guy who went 'Ah they got me' and complained about it being cliche when he got hit in..Episode 5, Crossroads. He'd been in Easy since Curahee prior to that, but because he was wounded and in reality, was shipped to England for treatment and thus could not go AWOL and discharge himself to return to unit, unlike Popeye.
Webster did not actually start in Easy. He was a Tacoma man but was in HQ company when they jumped into Normandy. He transferred to Easy for Market Garden.
He was also the guy who gave chocolate to the Dutch kid.
It wouldn't also hurt to note that Webster was an author and journalist as a civilian. His initially unpublished memoirs about the war contributed to Stephen Ambrose's list of incredibly valuable sources in creating the Band of Brothers novel. After Webster died, his writings were made into its own book too.
@@mikepeterson9362 Spoilers. Don't do this.
@@rollomaughfling380 ????
Lowest to highest (generally, skipping some):
Enlisted Ranks:
- Private
- Corporal
- Sergeant
- First Sergeant
Officer Ranks:
- 2nd Lieutenant
- 1st Lieutenant
- Captain
- Major
- Lieutenant Colonel
- Colonel
- General
So Lipton's promotion is a larger deal because he is going from an enlisted to an officer. Per military's website: "enlisted service members are responsible for completing military missions and carrying out orders. Officers act as managers for those soldiers, planning missions, giving orders, and assigning soldiers to tasks". In present day, 83% of the armed forces are enlisted, so becoming an officer is a lot more difficult and competetive. Obviously during WWII there was a much greater need, but the point is that Lipton's promotion is a big deal and a sign of how highly he was respected as a leader.
Thank you! Lipton really stood out and got a well deserved promotion.
Cobb was portrayed as insubordinate, and likely was, however according to his history he was a soldier since 1933. I can't imagine being on a troop ship sunk by a torpedo back then, going through all the rest of the conflicts, and not being a bit pissed off or just a bit crazy.
Cobb had been a soldier since 1933, had seen combat in North Africa and had survived a troopship being torpedoed and sunk. By the time of Camp Toccoa, Roy W. Cobb probably had the most combat experience in Company E, certainly more than Herbert M. Sobel or Richard Winters
-Fought in North Africa
-survived being on a troopship that was torpedoed
-survived some of the most demanding training in the army to become a paratrooper
-was wounded at Normandy
-fought at Bastogne and Market Garden
Webster's the soldier that got hit with shrapnel in The Crossroads episode and yells out, they got me.
There are five ways to become an officer
1. Academy, in the Army it's at West Point.
2. ROTC, alot of colleges have programs.
3. OCS, a three month school. How I got my commission but in a rare accelerated 2 month school, AMA, it shall be done.
4. Direct commission, Doctors, lawyers, etc. That enter service.
5. Field commission, good soldier promoted when there is a need for more officers. That's how LT Lipton was promoted.
I think it should also be noted that in peace time, officers have to have at least a 4-year degree to apply for OCS. The academies are essentially military colleges which is why cadets come out with a commission.
At the time in WW2 for the Commonwealth it was a three month course, aside from field commissions of course. Hence most on the ETS for flight crews were just given senior NCO ranks to accelerate them forward to training. Today it's 18 Months at a Royal Millitary College, 12 (ish) at the Navy and 6 or so months for the RAAF but the degree (should they choose to pay for it) comes on top of that, it wipes 6 months off RMC.
@@robg5640 that's pretty wild and I wouldn't be surprised if it's scrapped like the 4-year degree in aviation in the US. In the Commonwealth a degree counts for nothing to your chances of a commission, it can come after passing out parade.
@VerowakReacts This right here.
Now when we're getting close to the end "The Pacific" is a must see follow up and I have high hopes for "Masters of the Air"
Definitely the Pacific. Not so sure Masters of the Air is going to live up to the previous two, some dumb stuff in the previews I've seen.
15:40 Cobb was court martialed for insubordination. You can see him being driven away in a Jeep by MPs.
This is a severely underrated episode. 6 and 7 deservedly get a huge amount of praise but this one is great too.
Oh btw Sgt. Martin hates Webster bc he volunteered Jones to go in Malarkey’s place making Martin the lead man. He wasn’t involved initially but Webster inadvertently made him patrol leader
In reality Sgt. Martin did not hate Webster in fact they were good friends.
I wouldn't say hate, more like pissed off and annoyed that ya, he was now roped into the patrol but hate is pretty strong.
Ahh that makes sense, thank you! I definitely didn't pick that up and was confused why Martin wasn't happy at all with Webster lol
@@donaldstewart8342 in reality, Martin also didn't lead that patrol, so that's why he didn't hate Webster.
Captain Crunch must have led the patrol
Thank you so much for reacting to this beautiful series sweetie it makes me so happy I am a soldier of New Zealand myself and it brings me so much joy I’ve been in the military nearly since I was 18 and I am now 27 😊😊
Webster was in the first 5 episodes and played a prominent role and had many lines. When you graduate from a military school, like Westpoint, most are automatically officers as they have more technical knowledge than any private would through their military education.
16:58 Winters coming in clutch for his men was such a GigaChad move. Might be my favorite moment in the series. What a legend. The GOAT
the army also promoted most of the west point grads to save staff positions to keep them alive so they can be kept as leadership in the post war army they let them go on safer missions to learn how to lead
Neither Jones nor Webster participated in the patrol. Jones was remembered as being open, just/fair, and competent, he was generally liked by the men. He was with them for close to a year before being transferred within the regiment for the remainder of the war. After the war he stayed in Europe but never made it home after dying during surgery after being involved in a vehicle crash.
Webster is the guy who gave the kid chocolate in Holland
Webster's all like "nobody told me I was supposed to break out of the hospital and jump back into combat".
The reason Martin gave Webster a dirty look was because it was his idea that Malarkey sit the patrol out, so they got Martin to replace him as the Sgt in charge. To Martin, it looked like Webster's scheming got him sent on a dangerous mission he initially wasn't part of. But webster didn't intend that as a consequence. He thought they'd just send Lt Jones along and the men on the mission would be experienced enough to keep him alive.
Same for when Webster said they don't need two translators. Martin and the others though he was trying to weasel out of going, so Martin left Liebgott (the other german-speaking translator) behind. Personally it seemed to me that Webster was trying to get Liebgott out cos he'd already been through enough
4:50
That's how it works. Commissioned officers (typically) start out as 22-year-old, snot-nosed, arrogant kids with more official authority than the oldest, longest-serving, most-experienced enlisted person in the entire military. They are emmidiately placed in charge of soldiers/NCOs with years of experience. Lieutenants (and even captains) are well-known for screwing things up.
In my experience, almost all officers are assholes who believe their lives are more important than those they command. Of course they do. They come from wealthy families that think that way about the peasants they employ. Most of the officers I knew... I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
Battlefield-commissions such as those depicted in this show are extremely rare; only occurring in extended periods of war.
12:07 he does, infantry tactics is part of what is taught in officer training.
Army ranks. General> Colonel>Major>Captain> Lieutenant are officers. They usually have some education beyond high school and possibly military school. Those that do have military school will be promoted more quickly than those without.
Sergeant>Corporal> Private. Promotion to corporal can be fairly common. To sergeant usually requires a vacancy. So can be rare. During war usually includes the previous sergeant being wounded. Going from sergeant to lieutenant is very very rare and includes an additional step. The sergeant must be discharged then reenlisted as an officer. They are also usually moved to a new unit to discourage favoritism.
cobb and another soldier were court-martialed for drunkness and assalting platoon commander, Lt. Foley, in Haguenau
Another great reaction. I agree with you about your admiration of Winters' leadership. He was definitely the man for that moment in history. I know you're not given to tears, but you might want to keep a box of tissues near by for the next one. I'm looking forward to watching it. "Currahee!"
Fun Fact.. the third wounded prisoner left on the opposite side of the river who you hear crying for help is voiced by Tom Hanks
I have really been enjoying you and Larissa Zeeuwe's reactions to BoB. You are very perceptive and glad you are so open to learning and appreciating this history. Note there are a lot of promotions in war, they need leaders. Webster was the guy in the Island episode who said something like they got me, can you believe I said that. Also the one who gave chocolate to the little Dutch boy. Webster was actually pretty good friends with most of the guys in E company and dont think they would have been quite as hostile to him but the episode makes a good dramatic point. Plus he was in a hospital in England so it wouldn't have been as easy for him to rejoin the unit before the Bulge. The sergeant who leads the patrol is hostile to Webster because he got picked because Webster got Malarky out of being the leader. Dont think he would have had quite that reaction but once again, good dramatic effect.
Yeah I think they used Webster as a general catch-all to how some guys might have been received back by their unit after being gone a while. But like you said, the guys liked Webster generally and he was warmly welcomed back. It's the officers who had generally a poor opinion of Webster because he never volunteered for anything and usually did the bare minimum.
From what I’ve heard the guys didn’t hate Webster as much as they show when he got back. Also, if you go to college first, you can join the military as an officer
A great many have already commented on promotions, so this is just adding to the information already given. Promotions are normally a function of time and/or performance. A person who performs acceptably can expect promotion after a certain amount of time if they show competence at that level of responsibility and so they are promoted and given more responsibility. If they show skill and aptitude, they can expect promotion faster. There are also brevet promotions and promotions to fill billets. A brevet promotion is given when someone is moved to a certain level of command and responsibility above their current rank. A famous example was Custer. In the American Civil War, he held the rank of Brigadier General but once the war ended, he reverted back to his actual rank of Colonel. A brevet promotion or commission is usually rescinded once someone of the actual rank can be found to fill that position. Though if the person performs well, they may be promoted a grade in recognition of that. Brevet commissions/promotions are temporary. The last one is a promotion to fill a billet which is a certain position in the command structure. Since lieutenant Jones was going to hold a staff position, he may have gotten a promotion as that position may require a 1st lieutenant to fill that position. These promotions are usually given to individuals who have the expertise but may lack the current rank to fill that position. Lt. Jones may have had a particular skill in signals intelligence or cartography or another skill and thus got the promotion in order to fill that slot.
Once you have completed episode 10, there is a documentary called we stand alone together where they interview the veterans of easy company, some of it you see at the beginning of every episodes.
Army officer ranks from low to high: 2nd Lieutenant (2LT), 1st Lieutenant (1LT), Captain (CPT), Major (MAJ), Lieutenant Colonel (LTC), Colonel (COL), Brigadier General (1 Star) (BG), Major General (2 Star) (MG), Lieutenant General (3 Star) (LTG), General (4 Star) (GEN). In times of war there is a General of the Army (5 Star)
Officer's ranks in the U.S. Army (Same for the U.S. Air Force) are as follows, in order from lowest to highest rank .....
Second Lieutenant (2nd Lt.) = Single Gold Bar.
First Lieutenant (1st Lt.) = Single Silver Bar.
Captain (Capt.) = Two Silver Bars (side by side).
Major (Maj.) = Gold Oak Leaf.
Lieutenant Colonel (Lt. Col.) = Silver Oak Leaf (aka. Light Colonel).
Colonel (Col.) = Silver Eagle (aka. Full Bird Colonel).
Brigadier General (Brig. Gen.) = Single Silver Star.
Major General (Maj. Gen.) = Two Silver Stars.
Lieutenant General (Lt. Gen.) = Three Silver Stars.
General (Gen.) = Four Silver Stars.
General of the Army (Also, General of the Air Force) = Five Silver Stars.
An oddity in the naming of the officer ranks, as shown above, a Major outranks Lieutenants. However, when you get to the Generals, a Lieutenant General outranks a Major General. Go figure!
Sure others have observed this but Winters and Nixon really put themselves in jeopardy by falsifying the second patrol. Both could have been court-martialled.
Had they not done that, I imagine there would have been some casualties during that patrol
@@VerowakReacts Oh no doubt about that, casualties, life-altering injuries, etc. That was a bold, brave move by Winters and Nixon to spare these guys another unneeded engagement.
2nd Lt. Jones graduated West Point 8 months before this episode was dated. When they graduate they start as 2nd Lt. So his first promotion happened (to 1st Lt). Pretty standard in timing.
19:31 "I don't know why Jones got promoted". As others may have commented, Jones was a West Point graduate. The Army already had a sense that the war was coming to an end and wanted to protect West Point graduates for post-war occupation army. Lt. Jones was promoted to a 1Lt. regimental staff officer (desk job, away from harm). He stayed in the army after the war ended (as most service academy grads do). He made Capt. and was posted in Berlin. He died post surgery after an automobile accident in 1947.
Fun fact since I love your reactions and this series is my favorite in history though I think I told you that....In real life Webster and Spiers are best of friends.They were roommates together and used to go out and some people would confuse them but they were always together, literally like brothers.What makes this so impressive is how well the video production, actors and how its based off a true story.Many forget this is over 24 years ago this was made
Promotions in the military generally just happen through the passage of time served. Like Jones being promoted from Second Lieutenant to First Lieutenant. He just served enough months for it to happen. 1stSgt Lipton was a battlefield commission. Where an enlisted man has shown great leadership among his peers and was promoted to an officer position. 01 Second Lieutenant, 02 1st Lieutenant, 03 Captain Spears, 04 Major Winters, 05 Lieutenant Colonel, 06 Colonel Sink. Then the General ranks start. But for the purposes of this show, these are the only ranks that mattered.
There are a lot of service academy grads (West Point, Naval Academy, Air Force Academy) who make good officers. But there are also a lot who expect to get respect just by virtue of being an academy grad and wearing their class ring. They soon learn that respect must be earned.
One of the biggest reasons for fraggings in Vietnam.
Lieutenants are the most junior grade of officers. They receive training at a military academy or have some education and received officer certification. Enlisted men are less educated and can get promoted to sergeants (non-commisioned officers) Sergeants are generally the most experienced. Lieutenants are there to issue tactical orders, sergeants are the hands-on get-people-moving leaders. You can also view each rank as growing responsibility over more men and area of operations. Privates are responsible for anything in their range, sergeants are responsible for 5+ privates, lieutenants for 15+ men, etc
2nd Lieutenant is the lowest officer rank.
Officers get additional training and education for managing units and commanding soldiers in combat. That makes them higher qualified than the regular soldiers and put in charge, even if they have much less combat experience or none at all.
Going from regular soldier to officer is somewhat unusual, I believe, and normally a sergeant who seems qualified would get all that extra training before becoming a Lieutenant. But in the middle of a war like this, you can't have the best sergeants send back for half a year to train. Which is why Lipton got promoted to Lieutenant while they were still in the field. They needed someone to fill a role for a lieutenant right now, and Lipton was the most qualified person they had to do it.
Generally speaking Enlisted don’t have college degrees and officers do. Or rather to be an officer a 4 year degree is required.
Enlisted like a private or corporal work their way up to sergeants ranks or also called NCOs (non-commissioned officers). Lipton was a senior non-commissioned officer.
Then he got a battlefield commission to an officer rank. This is very rare.
Officer ranks go from 2nd Lieutenant to General. 2nd Lt, then 1st Lt…then captain, major, Lieutenant Colonel, and Colonel. Then generals after that.
FYI The Navy has totally different names for all ranks both Enlisted and Officer.
So everything that I'm learning gets thrown out the window for the Navy lol Clearly my expertise lies somewhere that has nothing to do with military lol
@@VerowakReacts haha yea well I’m retired military (Air Force) so after 27 years I was pretty decent with rank 😂
Tom Hanks even enlisted his own son into the War, that's commitment...This is when Winters essentially "Dad arms" and protects his men of Easy Company in anyway he can, even by lying to command. I love the way they express so visually the soldiers experiences by the appearance of their uniforms. Webster's guilt is what leads him to volunteer for the patrol and earn respect from the men again...
Currahee ♠
As I understand it, promotion from 2nd Lt. to 1st was pretty much automatic after a few months service. So Jones' promotion wasn't for anything in particular that he'd done and he didn't get any additional responsibility, unlike Winters and Lipton. It just meant that he wasn't a complete newbie.
Happy New Year.
If you watch The Pacific miniseries, it's also a huge war whose events are concurrent with those in Band of Brothers but with a different tone and focus due to context.
It's the same war.
so ranks in the U.S. military get pretty complicated but in MOST cases, a higher number actually means you're a lower rank, which seems pretty counterintuitive unless you think of higher numbers as being secondary or tertiary to the lower numbered rank. so a 2nd lieutenant is lower rank than a 1st lieutenant, or in the Navy, a 3rd class petty officer is lower rank than a 2nd class petty officer which is again lower rank than a 1st class petty officer. in the branches that have it, a 1st sergeant is higher rank than a plain old sergeant.
an exception to this is the weird area of warrant officers which are somewhere in-between commissioned officer and enlisted, where you still salute them and call them sir, but the highest ranking Warrant officer 5 is still considered lower rank than a 2nd lieutenant that just graduated from WestPoint.
often times Lieutenant is used to denote a lower rank, so for instance a LT colonel is lower rank than a Colonel, or a LT Commander is lower rank than a Commander.
the reason that Lipton had to be discharged from the Army was that the entire U.S. military are sticklers for maintaining clear delineations between enlisted personnel and officers, they're almost different branches of the military entirely. you have be completely removed from the enlisted side in order to be granted membership of the officer side, so Lipton after receiving his battlefield commission was discharged as a non-commissioned officer (enlisted), and commissioned as a 2nd LT (officer). normally when you're not in an active warzone there is an unbearable amount of pomp and ceremony around enlisted people earning a commission complete with long speeches, and standing at attention for hours on end.
Love all your reactions but especially this series!! ❤
Thank you! This series has been just amazing!
In the US Military, in the Army in particular, the idea of a strong military is to have a professional officer corps trained to lead full time. There are officers trained at West Point called commissioned men and men who are privates and seargents called enlisted men. They can be different ages but the enlisted men can be promoted on the battlefield up to a point. The officers are in charge even if they happen to be younger and those are the rules.
This episode could exist for the scenes that Winters and Nixon discuss the need for Sink's second patrol and the response of the men after Winters put the exclamation point on smart leadership. It's worth watching just for that scene alone.
There are enlisted men who can be promoted from private to corporal to sergeant. Officers can be promoted from lieutenant to captain to major to colonel to general. With there basic ranks there can be gradations e.g. First Sergeant, Second Lieutenant etc. It's a big thing to go from being an enlisted man to being an officer as Lipton did. PREPARE TOURSELF FOR EPISODE NINE, TISSUES ARE ADVISED.
Thank you for this reaction! As an old soldier myself, I love when you all react to this. I understand what you mean about rank, it can be confusing for someone not used to it. But think of it as a hierarchy, same way in the police and fire departments. Same as many sports teams with captains then position coaches then the head coach. This episode is a testament to leadership, when things need a heavy hand and when they need a light touch. Winters, in my opinion, is one of the best leaders I have ever seen. I have had good ones and bad ones in my 21 years in the army. Being old and retired, I love when you take the time to see what really goes on. The interviews with the men before hand give a little evidence to this. Again, my sincerest thanks, I love and mind opened, like yours! Have a blessed day!
Webster was the guy who gave the chocolate bar to that kid in Holland.
Definitely read winters's memoir Beyond Band of Brothers
I definitely will!
Jones graduated from West Point - a military acadamy that offers officers' training - so his rank was all on academic merit, not battlefield experience & promotions.
Webster was the one who gave the little boy a chocolate bar in Holland.
4:56 2nd Lieutenant is the lowest officer rank, so he outranks all of the enlisted soldiers, even though he's got no combat experience, he graduated from officer school (West Point is quite a prestigious one at that). Now a smart/humble rookie lieutenant would usually rely on the experience of his platoon sergeant to make the right decisions in the field, but not all of them were...
The Lieutenant was promoted because he was a West Point graduate and they where protecting him because they saw him as the future of the army after the war. There are basically two groups of people in the military. The enlisted men Sargent and the officers. Lieutenants are the lowest ranked officers and they have no experience. Once they do they are promoted. On rare occasions an enlisted man will be given a battlefield commission and become an officer, but that is very much an exception not the rule.
Lt Jones might not have any battle experience but he by now has 5 years of training. Four at West Point and 1 since his graduation and activation.
All West Point graduates are receive a commission as 2nd lieutenants upon graduation.
BTW, how much actual battlefield experience did any of the 506th have on D-Day, including the platoon leaders and company commanders, including Winters? Answer: basically zero.
9:48 "There is something about Webster and that guy". Yes, Sgt. Martin was pissed at Webster because Webster suggested that Lt. Jones replaced Malarkey. Capt. Spiers chose to pick Sgt. Martin to lead instead. Martin: You got me into this, I will take you with me.
Yeah... I wouldn't be very happy with him either in his place 😨
Happy New Year VEROWAK!! First report 2024!!!!🥳🥳🥳🙌🙌🙌
Webster wasn’t ostracized for missed Bastogne. The guys were glad to see him. He wrote a memoir called Parachute Infantry: An American Paratrooper's Memoir of D-Day and the Fall of the Third Reich that is used as source material for a lot of this episode, specifically the story about Lutz trying to hand out the chocolate bars.
LOVE your reactions Vero. Webster was the guy that gave the kid some chocolate, and in Holland the guy was yelling at him saying "away, away". He got hit in holland and said "They got me!" and then was embarrassed that he yelled it out. Going to the hospital is not fun or pretty like Guarnere said. Depends where you go and recover and rehab.
Lt. Jones was promoted b/c he was an officer on an advanced mission and showed great valor and heroism. He went to West Point which is the most prestigious military school in the U.S. Going there and depending on your grades gives you a rank coming into active duty. Therefore the reason he was automatically a Lt.
The ranks go for Officers: Second Lt.(1 gold bar), Lieutenant (1 silver bar), Captain (2 silver bars), Major (gold oak leaves), Lt. Colonel (silver oak leaves), Colonel (Eagle), Brigadier General (1 star), Major General, (2 stars) Lt. General (3 stars) then General (4 stars).
Thank you, I'll remember the soldiers better each watchthrough I do!
@@VerowakReactsoh it's hard to keep them straight. All of us watch this every year if not more.
Jones was probably promoted more for Time in grade than anything else. If you are a decent officer the promotion from 2nd Lt to 1st Lt is usually 12 - 18 months time in grade. In war time it’s often accelerated or as needed for the position you hold.
04:54 "Wait, how is he a Lieutenant, without any experience?" Welcome to the world of the enlisted man. Lieutenants are the buck privates of the officer world. That is, unless they're a "Mustang," (someone who earned the rank while enlisted.) It's a huge difference.
Near the end of the war, the Army tried to pull many of the West Point grads out of harms way and assign them to staff duties (like they did for Jones) to protect what they deemed valuable assets for the future.
Also some combat experience (even though minimal) was part of building the resume for fast-tracking West Point graduates.
This probably is the most confusing episode in terms of what's happening between characters, so don't worry too much about missing the more subtle details on your first watch. I know it took me a couple watches before understanding everything. Lucky for you there's a whole comments section itching to explain it all! I've heard that the narration comes directly from David Webster's own writing, which has always been one of my favorite aspects of the whole episode
Plenty of things to miss on first watch, but thankfully, it's a series that warrants many rewatches and so many things to notice each time!
Sgt Martin is blaming Webster for him having to go on the patrol in the first place. It was going to be Malarkey (sp?).
Lovin your Band of brothers reactions. next episode is the hardest one, but last episode is beautiful
Winters took a risky chance at getting court-martialed for disobeying a direct order from Colonel Sink in regards to the second patrol. Had Sink discovered Winters told them all to not go, he have been in deep trouble. However, a second patrol with the same plan would have meant certain death for far too many who were to go that second night. Not a good idea from Sink and everyone knew it.
That Winters put himself on the line for his men is another of many reasons the men respected him so much.
Sink had also been drunk when giving that order, winters stuck to his gut and disobeyed it. From what I remember of winters autobiography
@@cillianmclaverty9392 Thank you for the insight. I've not read the book so that detail was unknown to me. It makes Winters' decision even more considered as he had to weigh more factors into where he stood.
@@Sp33gan great read, you can get into the headspace of winters more even if he is very emotionally conservative
For whatever reason, the show swapped Leibgot and Webster for the patrol. Webster was manning a machine covering the withdrawal, Liebgot was a part of the patrol
Great reaction Verowak. Buckle up though girl, the next one is a tough but necessary watch!
as a soldier i can say from experience every LT has no idea what they are doing
US Army Officer ranks & pay grades
O-1 through O-10
O-1 2nd Lieutenant most junior officer
O-2 1st Lieutenant usually incharge of a platoon
O-3 Captain (not to be confused w/ a Navy Captain- much higher rank) usually incharge of a company (3-4 platoons)
O-4 Major
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel these two are usually incharge of a Battalion (3-4 Companies)
O-6 Colonel incharge of a Regiment , also called a Brigade.
(3-4 Battalions)
O-7 Brigadier General ☆ in charge of a Division (3-4 Regiments)
O-8 Major General ☆☆ in charge of a Corps (3-4 Divisions)
O-9 Lieutenant General ☆☆☆ in charge of an Army Group (3-4 Corps) approximately 15,000 personnel
O-10 General☆☆☆☆
General of the Armies ☆☆☆☆☆
This rank is only achieved during war time and has only been awarded 3 times. General George Washington, General Ulysses Grant and General John Pershing
Cobb in the background (as Webster is getting into the truck) being taken away by the MP's! He attacked an officer!!
Yeah - that’s frowned upon
Hi there, one of the reasons that Sink wasn't aware of whether the patrol took place or not is because someone was detailed to keep him away from the front and he was plied with whisky and so got drunk and went to bed early and that was one of the reasons they were able to pull the wool over his eyes. On a personal note (Sorry, but felt I had to ask), are you a keen swimmer ? I only ask because you look to gave the physique and shoulders of a competitive swimmer. You don't have to answer obviously, but I am curious. Anyway, you give great reactions and all the best to you. :-)
Lt. Jones was with e company much longer than the show suggests.
It's understandable how you are reacting to this episode, because of the way they wrote it, and presented Webster to you. Unfortunately, it's not accurate, at all. Webster was shocked when he got back to find so many men he knew gone, to the point he almost broke down crying. And there were some that welcomed him back and said he was lucky to be able to miss Bastogne. But we don't get any of that here. They also had different men on the patrol, Webster wasn't even on that patrol, he was manning a machine gun to cover their withdrawal.
As for rank structure, there are two broad classes of soldiers, Enlisted men, and Officers.
Enlisted men are 'enlisted' in the service, and the highest ranked elisted man still ranks below that lowest ranking officer. Officers come in two broad classes, Commissioned and Warrant. A Commissioned officer receives a 'commission' to hold his rank, and a Warrant officer receives a 'warrant'. Warrant officers rank below commissioned officers and usually are some kind of technical specialist in a particular field. In the very lowest ranks of commissioned officers, they typical get promotions based on time in grade, so for Jones, it was probably just time for him to move up from 2nd Lt to 1st Lt. It wasn't based on that patrol. For Lipton, since he was an enlisted man, first he had to be discharged from service as an enlisted man, then he receives his commission as a Lt. It was a battlefield commission, as opposed to completing some form of higher education to receive a commission.
Thank you for understanding how/why I reacted that way, and not immediately being angry with me for not knowing what actually happened. That's the unfortunate thing with adaptations, there are always some aspects that are changed (whether on purpose or due to the source material being biased or only showing a certain side of people)
That was very nice to provide such a concise and thorough explanation of the episode’s events, as well as the hierarchy of rank in the military.
@@VerowakReactsHi. Would certainly hope no one would get angry with you for just not knowing something you’ve never had experience with. It’s quite understandable. A bit late now, but the DVDs in the box set I own contain a lot of background information on the war, in general, the unit’s (Easy Co.) history, as well as most main characters’ backgrounds. There’s also a handy glossary of military terms & acronyms, and even a complete listing of military rank, in order, with their generalized responsibilities. You seem to catch on very quickly just out of context, but your viewers also are eager to help, demonstrated so perfectly by the kind gentleman above ⬆️. Thank you for your fantastic reactions.
@@Ernwaldo The DVDs sound wonderful since they give more information!! I've started watching a few WW2 historical channels in order to learn more of the events that happened 🤩
@@VerowakReacts Thank you for that kind and thoughtful response. Happy to hear you’re watching just to learn about WWII. It’s a subject that I find both fascinating and horrible. Good to learn and hope you appreciate. You are not only entertaining, but seem quite intelligent, intuitive and perceptive. Please never hesitate to ask questions! 🙂
Now your on your way to watch Ep. 9, I will not spoil anything but I suggest you buy plenty of tissue boxes for Ep. 9
Episode nine tough emotionally have tissues at the ready. good reactions all the way arround.
If it wasn't for Webster Sgt Martin wouldn't have had to go on the patrol. Thats why he wasn't happy with Webster.
people die, people get promoted
Hi there, how's it going?
Mmm you showed sum extra skin in this vid 😘🤣
What an awful way to go! Jackson fragging himself.
Back to "horror" series huh X-P
Please forgive me if I sound sound snarky, but you could have spent ten minutes on Wikipedia 6 episodes ago and had the whole "rank" thing sorted.
I agree, you do sound snarky.
@@williammcpeak8800
I agree with your agreement about the snark.
How about the point of the comment? Didn’t you get a little impatient with our host’s complaints about her inability to understand the Army’s rank structure and promotion system? She could have relieved her confusion with the merest effort, but chose to whine about it instead.
@@danl.909 Having grown up in the 60's and 70's near a marine corps installation we were well taught about rank and file. In high school we had a custodian who was an Austrian Jew who would come into world history class and teach us about what his life was like in a concentration camp when he was our age. I don't know what our host's upbringing and youth was like. Perhaps she helped care for an aging grandparent or a sibling with downs syndrome, and somehow rank and file are not as important in her family. She seems to be more focused on the genuine concern Dick Winters has for the safety of his men. I am very glad to see these young people pick up this series and learn of the history, but I don't expect them to learn every detail of an era that is eighty years in the past. I'm more curious to see what aspects she sees that I miss. I enjoy seeing their priorities and comparing them to mine. Hope this answers your question.