Hobbywing Max4/Castle 2028 vs Lishen LTO Cells - Ultra-high Power Tests
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- Опубликовано: 3 фев 2023
- This is the big test to see if the Hobbywing Max4 ESC can survive maximum load and to see what the Castle 2028 motor is truly capable of in an electric turbo application. To buy the Hobbywing, click here: amzn.to/3vhGy6Q The Castle motor is here: amzn.to/3viphe2 Join our forum at www.electrifiedboost.com and consider supporting my efforts on patreon: / alexltdlx
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![[NEW]Castle Creations 2028 1700kv🔥🔥🔥🔥😱](/img/1.gif)
Hey Alex, I've been following your progress on electric forced induction for 4 years or so and I think I speak for all of us when I say thank you for sharing your research over all these years . When or If you ever take this to market as a kit I'll be first in line sir. Thanks!
I'll fight you for first!!
2nd for an ALTDLXEBGT1RR600++GT1000 R1
3rd May boyssss🎉
Many years ago I watched someone test a cheap electric supercharger that actually didn't make any boost on the dyno. I went searching for a real brushless setup on real go-fast parts but I guess nobody sold them yet. This is so cool to watch. So many possibilities for tuning for things like traction control, boost by gear or boost while off throttle similar to anti lag.
I'll be getting a max 4 because the test you ran...thanks again man...nice job just got to find good batteries for my losi 5ive-t 2.0
I'm getting the max4 and the hobbywing 560kv motor that shits on the castle 2028💪
you are a master teacher/field tester & i love it. i have a max4 & a castle creations 800kv motor/esc combo in my Losi DBXL-E 2.0. that thing is wicked NASTY! be safe & endured. thank you for showing us youtubers your testings.
The new hobbywing 560s kv shits on the castle 2028. It's 70mm thick and 125mm long its bigger than a 12oz can drink which is nuts.
been tinkering on this myself. nice job man!
Maaaannnn! I cannot wait for it installed!!! Great job 👍🏼
Man this content should be hitting further. Your doing something iv dreamt about doing forever, but never had the motivation to follow through, I absolutely cannot wait to get in on this tech whne ive some spare money and time and experiment. It kinda reminds me of when i build my first megasquirt, (before they got all closed source and bleh) exciting, pioneering times.
Congrats Alex, that looked like a pretty successful test!
Thanks!
What a contraption. I love it.
Thanks!
Wow Alex - this is super exciting! What a beast of a battery pack... the only issue I see is that hobbywing seem to discontinue items without notice so I hope the supply of those esc's is plentiful into the future. They certainly are good at bringing out decent and ever evolving products though.
Awesome vid man and thank you for sharing your R&D journey.
Awesome testing and results. Thanks for sharing your R&D with us. One thing I wanted to mention is that you might want to put a fan on your brushless motor. I'm not sure what kind of heat you're getting to with the motor, but try to keep it cool.
Awesome 👍
I was sad you gave up on VESC but you can't argue with results!
Always good when the smoke stays inside! 😎
Great stuff!!! Just purchased a 1997 Toyota Chaser with a 1jz-gte because my Mustang ecoboost motor blew up. Would be cool to stuff one of your setups in either car.🔥🔥
I use the same combo in my HPI 5TFlux. It's pretty skookem
I ran this combo in my Baja Flux, and it backflipped so hard it broke my rear wing mount. It's a bit overkill, but it sure was fun, do NOT use with paddle tires Loll👍👍
Good Work !
Love to see these vids. Wondering if you ever gonna setup a diy type list of the best off the shelf parts, or a kit to do something like this for a car.
Electric superchargers are a sorely under rated platform.
Would love to try a diy setup for a rotary engine. Don't need a huge boost but anything to help low end torque and low to mid power would be great.
Shiiiit it'll be awesome if this turns into a product, ill definitely have myself one of these.
Another great test!!! I took my P2 charger apart and was surprised to find the sealed ball bearings are only rated to 25,000rpm, I wonder how long they will last at that rpm.
pretty neat test. 260A load is barely warming up for the Max4 and 2028. will be very interesting to see future development and application of this in 1:1 cars
This is the bigger unit at the dragstrip recently: ruclips.net/video/RT0M88xHzNQ/видео.html It supports in the neighborhood of 800 hp.
That is awesome! Can't wait for the poor man's 200hp version :)
If there was a weak link, I think you would have found it with this. Good one!
I was mentioning your videos to a friend of mine that builds a lot of things with electric motors and mentioned that your belt was getting hot and he asked if your belt had a groove down the center of the teeth. He said a groove down the teeth would help keep the belt cool because it allows the air being compressed between the belt and the pulley to escape.
Your friend is on point. Jon Bond - the guy who rebuilds superchargers is Jon Bond performance - told me that was a trick they used on the Powerdyne internal belt driven blowers to make the internal belts last longer. I might do that at some point down the road, but really the point of this is to make an affordable and easy to duplicate unit.
Still hoping to get one of these setup on my 6.1 Hemi...This is effing phenomenal... I am an RC guy so this is right up my alley in two hobbies. Gonna need a cooler for the motor and ESC, my goals are inline with typical bolt on stuff, 4-5 psi at peak rpm/load, maybe 550whp. Anything else is pushing efficiency of the whole shebang and risking bottom end. I am curious though about running twins. The packaging possibilities are so good that it is less absurd than typical twin anything. Wonder about differential sized twins too. The Toyota/Lexus UZ world would eat this thing up too if we ever get a serious tuning platform for our old trucks. They really only want about 4-5 psi anyways, so if you take away the parasitic loss from a normal blower, maintaining 4psi at any RPM would be absolutely incredible. In fact I suspect the 2 UZ wouldn't want it below 3300 rpm or so, might start killing rods.... ...
I may order an ESC and a 2028, basic mounts to start playing with them, in the event they disappear, plus cheap ordering requires months of wait on shipping.
That esc is no joke....
Put caps across the economizer when using this, should buffer the current spike
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Now I wanna see a heart rate monitor along with all the rest of the data. Help everyone better appreciate the excitement and stress of running these tests.
I am curious about the amp meter (green) vs. the Hobbywing data logger amperage, so is that showing us battery amps and Hobbywing is showing phase amps? In general whats the rough cost of MGM motor/controller setup vs Hobbywing motor/controller setup, and do you like the software better than Vesc, I personally like Vesc it allows me to change any parameter, which can be a pro and a con. Slap the LTM on there and do a pull with the Hobbywing just to blow some hot numbers around. A little bit of ramp-up time might cure your contactor issue, keep the belt cooler, and it will help with the current spike and you will never notice it in the car. (spool times exhaust vs. pixes) Great Test! by the way I dissect the video frame by frame for the raw data, like you said R&D is a fire hazard. Mine is 23s Lifepo4 84v.
I cant wait to see this in a car, youll need to keep the cooling fan on the esc plugged in in future, and youll need an intercooler for sure
Your going to see it in a car soon. My armma Limitless. Now if the mailman will hurry his ass up!
That small green digital voltage display is probably not very accurate if I'm not mistaken, as it looks like one that I purchased from amazon (potentially) and when plugged into my power supply, the reading was almost 0.5v off. Not sure if that matters but I was going to use one with a momentary switch on top of my battery box for a quick voltage check. If you have a recommendation on a more accurate identical 3 digit display, I'm all ears. I'll mail you one of them just for a comparison. They were cheap.
Do you place the restrictor on the inlet or outlet side?
how about one for daily driving. Im using a honda 3.5 v6 what do we need?
Ok thats all cool, but will this motor esc combo be good on my Limitless for speed runs🤷
You just prove that I c e isn't dead and never will be
Hi Alex I wonder if there's another impeller and housing option for a smaller horsepower, say 300 hp, enigne, thanks.
This would work for 300 hp. The reason why I'm sticking with this is that it's the easiest/cheapest/most commonly available. The issue isn't so much hp, as much as the boost pressure require for that hp. This blower will support 300 hp at anything up to 11 psi. The closer to 11 psi you get, the closer you get to surge. So, in other words, if the base engine is 200hp, you'd need about 7.5 psi to hit 300hp - that would be just fine for this compressor. However, if you have an engine with a base hp of 150, you'd need 14.7 psi of boost to hit 300 hp - this compressor would be in surge at that point. Sizing a compressor for electric boost is a different mindset (though using the compressor map is still required) than a conventional turbo.
💕💜💕💜💕💜💕💜💕💜💕
I think I missed something. Was the Castle ESC not enough for this setup?
You may want to add a capacitor bank to help batteries and deliver more initial power.
Hi thanks for teaching . Is that the 2028 / 800Kv ?
Yes
I have an idea for boosted engines to have a secondary intake that's valved so when the engine isn't in boost, the natural aspiration is pulled through its own less restrictive filter and tube vs being pulled through the inactive charger
Check out the supercharged Ford Thunderbird. They did this back in the 80s.
@@johnroberts9311 yeah I can see pictures of the compartment but I can't find an explanation for what's going on with it. It looks like air is pulled from the passenger side and compressed air is sent out from the driver side into a potential intercooler? Water intercooler? And then sent back into the driver side of the compartment. If that's the case then thats not what I'm talking about...
Almost 3 times less current then the other setup, with only 4krpm less, i would say that is a huge win. And that ESC did'nt even get hot. 38ºC is neglegible
So if I'm looking at the data correctly, this little Castle 2028 and Max4 combo was at ~312 amps at ~44 volts?...13.8 kw?!!
Yes - that's right.
Whats the battery you're suggesting to run with this esc.
Right now I'm leaning towards an SMC Lipo; the LTO cells are great, but they're big, heavy and expensive.
@AlexLTDLX ok sounds great thanks for the reply.
So about that belt.... how many watts of power is going into heat? Timing belts are probably 97-98% efficient at best. My math says you're probably pushing 1/2 hp (~300-400w) of heat it that tiny thing. If you wanted it to make it's life be longer, maybe multiple parallel belts would help or a different belt. I wonder if gears from a 5th scale RC car or a 700 series helicopter might work.
When I did supermileage, we bought saver Gates belts that had carbon fiber tensile strands and the teeth were Teflon coated... claimed to about 99% efficient. The might be a bit large to package it in this situation and I think the smallest sprocket would be ~11 or 12 teeth with a 8mm pitch (~2 - 2.25" in diameter). The larger diameter would provide less tensile load on the belt, but the feet-per-minute would be insane. I'm curious what the max speed on a belt like that would be.
I'm trying not to complicate the drive at all. This timing belt pulley is what comes with the blower so if we can utilize that effectively then that simplifies things dramatically.
I’m thinking about minutes, not seconds and a land speed record with Ardema Braun . I’m certain it’s crazy but possible. You ever see Greg Quirin and his videos of those guys. Homemade engines and land speed, probably no class for them…. Yet
What lipo battery's are you talking about
These aren't LiPos - they're LTO cells. Specifically Lishen 18ah LTO cells. I have yet to find a LiPo that can compete with them, output-wise.
holy carap!!! my rc car has 600 Hp...... if i had a 5.3 LS hot glued to it.........
❤ the content. I have a 1100kv and 1700kv 2028 if you want to test them for free as long as you share for all of us to see. ❤❤❤
1.6 engine which motor recommend
It depends on the power level, not the engine displacement. Anything naturally aspirated from 200-450 hp hp, the Castle 2028 800kv motor is a good choice.
So by my calculations, based on simple current and voltage, the motor was drawing about 82 kW of power, or 109 horsepower. That is really impressive for the motor's size. Wow.
Show math please? If possible
@@tiagobraga1480 Power = current * voltage
Both are available in the video.
This is all geeky a fun gadgetry making spinning whizzing noises with big amp numbers and shiny c&c metal parts, and if it could produce double of what you’re saying it is now I could see it being worth talking about.
But 600hp when that’s achievable n/a with junkyard LS’s and cams and intakes? And 1400-1500hp with LS 427s and torqustorm superchargers.
I don’t get it.
Is this thing ever going to rev the impeller up to the compressor map and make any boost worth measuring?(like above 10psi)
24krpm is yard leaf blower speeds.
Must be a Ford thing.
Little hp numbers get all exciting.
…but 1200, that would be something.
600?
Once you perfect this now you can double up and power a 1300 horsepower monster
I can build it and install it. But I need a parts list. I cant paint I cant trace but I can beauitifully install.
32kW, yeah? That's around 43HP if my estimates are correct - and it's moving 600HP of air....proof that electric and ICEs go hand-in-hand!! ;)
Hi mate.
Take a look at this video from Steve morris. You might find it interesting once he starts running the charger fully open to atmosphere.
ruclips.net/video/lXCRyils0D8/видео.html
Hi Alex, using 2028 motor watch out for cable - can desolder. I know that was with 1700kV motor and more than 500A but better be careful
ruclips.net/video/fEtYxJts5Eg/видео.html
In my test push to motor about 6kW and cable warm up to 100⁰C in 10 seconds
ruclips.net/video/sv75F5LGCZU/видео.html.
Better monitor cable temp during test, and in real car will be hot around engine.
Thanks. I didn't know that they were just relying on a PCB inside. I'm going to have to look into that.
@@AlexLTDLX some messages YT not show.... check email ;-)
There is a much better option. You don't need to draw all that line current. Use an ebike controller that can handle the erpm and current required. Run it between 36v-126V. I'm sure you know the math.
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, such an ebike controller doesn't exist. Remember, we're talking about at least 14kW on this unit; and our bigger unit is pulling 33-35kW: ruclips.net/video/nlTVHkfSQXM/видео.html Can you imagine an ebike with 44hp?
Why not use the battery’s that’s in a gold kart they are cheep chargers a motor that’s way bigger and the battery last way longer
Most won't supply 300 amps running without heavy sag. I have other videos comparing the LTO cells to other batteries, and so far nothing has beat the LTO cells.
Golf Cart battery?
Dude you're on a completely different dimension if you think any standard 36V/48V golf cart battery (or the individual 6V/12V batteries in series it is composed of) has a chance at powering this setup.
There really isn't ANYTHING out there that compares to LTO cells and the Lishens are considered to be some of the best if not the best. Despite being less than half the size of the 40Ah YinLongs they perform similarly.....so paralleling these cells to almost match d Ah capacity of other LTO cells shows these things are anywhere from twice as powerful to about 25% more powerful...
The only other LTO cells I can think of that MIGHT outperform these Lishens is Toshiba SCiBs...I haven't found a real datasheet yet but Sriko Batteries claims the 10Ah cells are rated for 75C peak discharge. So 750A from a 10Ah cell....or a 6S "12V" battery would be able to burst 10kw of power while still maintaining an acceptable "12V" voltage.
Supercapacitors with extremely low ESR can burst similar (and sometimes more) current but you have to remember that even 3000F Maxwell Boost Caps have the watt hour capacity of like a AA alkaline battery....they can dump it almost instantaneously but this is an application that requires more than just occasional bursts measured in
sooner o later I think you are going to use a motor controller from an EV :D
Please don't make the cost of this esc go up.
lol
@@AlexLTDLX 🤣
It's technically not a super charger. A supercharger by definition is mechanically connected to the engine
I love what you're doing with this but all the test ive watched you do on the bench are almost useless besides getting it to work and make sure the wires are good. Everything will be operating with a vaccum and your readings will be way off.
You will probably draw less amps in the car than on that bench
If you need any help with turbo or boost or anything on the esc let me know
@@travisharrington9857 Summary of your post. "Your test sucks. Let me know if I can help m'kay?"
LOL. Looking forward to your test vid bro.