Inside the Las Vegas Loop: Transportation Game-Changer, or Complete Waste of Time and Effort?
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2022
- Perhaps you've heard about the Las Vegas Loop, an invention of Elon Musk's THE Boring Company, currently connecting the three main halls of the Las Vegas Convention Center (LVCC) with Teslas as the vehicles of choice. Today's video gives you a first-hand look at the LVCC Loop, looking at how the tunnel system operates, asking whether it's useful, and looking at future plans.
What this video does NOT include -- which you might've seen in viral videos around the time of the 2022 Consumer Electronics Show -- is a Vegas Loop traffic jam. In fact, what your intrepid videographer uncovered was exactly the opposite: either a little-used system on what should have been a busy convention day (the National Automobile Dealer's Association), or a system that was simply shut down for the day.
We'll look at long-range plans for a 51-station network of Tesla tunnels centered around the Las Vegas Strip, and we'll investigate the next phase of Las Vegas Loop: a one-way tunnel from the Las Vegas Convention Center's West Hall to the new Resorts World casino hotel, a quarter of a mile away on the Strip.
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Twitter: @nerd4cities
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Other recommended (and often hilarious) videos on the LVCC Loop:
- "The VEGAS LOOP: Just As Stupid As You Think" @AdamSomething • The VEGAS LOOP: Just A...
- "DEBUNKING THE VEGAS LOOP" @commonsenseskeptic • DEBUNKING THE VEGAS LO...
- "Elon Musk’s Las Vegas Loop could have been great" @Engadget • Elon Musk’s Las Vegas ...
- "First Look & Ride Inside Las Vegas Convention Center Loop" from Las Vegas Sun: • First Look & Ride Insi...
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Other CityNerd Videos referenced:
- Las Vegas trams and monorails: • Getting Around the Las...
- The Exclusive Bus Lane, the Lincoln Tunnel, and the Port Authority Bus Terminal: • What a Tunnel Should D...
- Busiest Bridges and Tunnels in the US: • Busiest Bridges and Tu...
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Resources:
- tunnelingonline.com/lvcva-boa...
- singularityhub.com/2020/02/20...
- techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/elo...
- www.forbes.com/real-time-bill...
- www.fox5vegas.com/2022/04/28/...
- clarkcounty-nv.elaws.us/code/c...
- www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standa...
- files.clarkcountynv.gov/clark...
- www.boringcompany.com/resorts...
- www.wired.com/story/uber-give...
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Image Credits:
- Video credit - "First Look & Ride Inside Las Vegas Convention Center Loop" from Las Vegas Sun: • First Look & Ride Insi...
- New Beetle (green) Image by djedj from Pixabay
- New Beetle (red) Image by Emilian Robert Vicol from Pixabay
- Dirty new beetle By Thomas doerfer - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
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Music:
CityNerd background: Caipirinha in Hawaii by Carmen María and Edu Espinal (RUclips music library)
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Contact: nerd4cities@gmail.com 
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The loop was a game changer. It helped a lot of people to finally realise that Musk is full of bs
Just now?
Not enough people
His rockets are good, his "hyper loop" is a distraction from real transit.
But everyone likes the sound of a golden bullet for all their problems, its just that engineering has taught me that no such things exist. Honestly if the US could just get 100mph trains running regularly as a regional rail that spans the nation it would be nice. From there expand the key corridors to true HSR between major cities.
don't forget this "genius" thinks he'll colonize Mars. Like yea, after you pal.
Not sure why you believe that considering the convention centre loop has been so successful. After all it’s demonstrated it can move up to 27,000 people per day during large conventions which is greater than the daily platform average of pretty much every subway station in Europe.
10:20 Wait, are they really proposing to make the cars travel in groups? Why not just chain them up together? And then add a sort of metal guideway on the ground so that they could move autonomously, with an electric cable running along so that would allow the cars to be constantly charged and never run out of power. After that they could modify the cars to accommodate more passengers, with standing room and seats. And then as a final touch they could just elevate the ground a little to get level boarding, that way it would be accessible to all.
Oh boy, I should create a startup and market this technology ASAP! This is going to revolutionize transit as we know it!!!
but elon is a classist and a racist
🤣🤣
Just add some technobabble to it and call them pods instead of trains and you'll make millions.
This technology doesn't exist yet. Stop reading steampunk novels
Ah, a fan of Adam I see.
If the stations get any closer together they could just run moving sidewalks through them. That would actually be a pretty good use for those tunnels.
moving sidewalks are great, such high cap for the space they take up, super high frequency and is very accessible with level boarding. even has handrails to help with balance.
@@Aliceintraining their maintenance costs are huge and they're pretty unreliable
They're also slow (run them any faster and they'll break even faster...)
Bike tunnels would make more sense
@@ronylouis0 Yes! Bike tunnels would be great, and you wouldn't even have to alter the tunnels to get them converted. Just kick out the cars. In fact, I feel like I've already heard this idea of taking back one or two lanes of traffic from cars and giving them to bikes...
Heck, just have people walk in the tunnels. It's only a few hundred metres.
These can easily be retrofitted into two-way micromobility tunnels with the stations repurposed as bike valet/food cart pods. Luckily
I have to admit, I was a true Elon fanboy for a number of years. I loved how determined he was to bring EV's to the world in a big way. But I've never fallen off of a bandwagon so fast in my life than when I saw this ridiculous idea. This is what we get? This is the future? They had better transit systems in the late 19th century. I've never seen anything so clausterphobia inducing in my life. What a joy it must be to get stuck in traffic in the worlds smallest tunnel.
Just wait until there is a fire in a tunnel. The only fire protection is a fire extinguisher on the wall in the central station.
@Floating Station I am not. The tunnels are death traps. The Boring Company somehow got many code exemptions. Must have saved them a lot on costs but they still ended up being about as expensive as an established tunnelling would be. Turns out that the Boring Company might not be revolutionizing tunnelling after all.
This is just a ploy to sell more teslas
EVs aren't even that good environmentally, they're marginally better than fuel based cars, but even diesel buses are lower emission than EVs, and trolley buses, trams, and trains are all far ahead of EVs.
they had better transit in ancient Egypt: I'm talking horse-and-buggy... and that's taking into account all the horse shit
9:48
The LV loop is truly genius. Why bother going to the hassle and expense of building genuinely high capacity transit when you can simply make the capacity numbers up?
All those cities that actually built trains and metros must be feeling pretty stupid now….
Elon has opened our eyes to new ways and philosophies of doing things and we should all be eternally thankful.
Sadly, there are more than a few people that don't see the snark there.
This is practically indistinguishable from actual praise I've seen on Elon online.
Why bother with capacity in the now when we can be talking about capacity of the FUTURE?
You forgot to turn on your SaRcAsM fOnT! ;-)
I'm glad I've been able to wake people up to the truth.
Elon always tweets about climate change while ignoring the benefits of public transportation (even downplaying its efficiency and usefulness). The boring company loop will be a failed experiment.
yes
It already is a failed experiment
Well I'm pretty sure some of those tunnels may be repurposed for a small gauge metro system
@@herlescraft I was thinking about this myself, but is it actually possible? I'd love to see a video from an engineer going into detail on that and if it would even be worth it to try.
@@AbsolutePixelMaster i mean I'm pretty sure the dimensions are comparable to some of the older lines in London, the alignment might need some rework but if they are ok with a small train with not great top speeds and frequencies it could be done rather cheaply compared to a new one. And a somewhat poor metro system would definitely qonna lot better than... that...
I'd just like to point out that I rode a completely autonomous closed loop car system run by Toyota all the way back in 2007. It only went like 5 miles an hour in a big loop, but it existed and worked. It was in Odaiba just outside of Tokyo, for those who may be curious.
I genuinely don't understand why the Vegas system isn't autonomous already. It's 2022. It would at least start to make a LITTLE sense then, but right now...woof
@@CityNerd Speculation: Autopilot is currently officially Level 2. On a closed and simplified course it might already be Level 4, but perhaps for regulatory purposes it's not allowed to be both. If Tesla wants all available person-hours devoted to the public Autopilot version, then it's spending no time and effort officially forking Autopilot for The Boring Company to get regulator approval.
@@flinx Having worked in autonomous vehicles (Trucks/LKW in particular, which is something I'd love to hear the "urbanist" crowd out on, as I think some of my opinions are certainly heretical to the church, so to say), I am thoroughly amused that these aren't autonomous. It's the perfect marketing ploy: single lane, 1 route, relatively simple parking situation, and no non-autonomous actors to deal with. Regulation-wise it should be pretty easy to be approved for it given its a closed course and they are willing to take on the risk themselves (or more likely be insured for it), and the publicity would be worth it I'd imagine considering it would make the ever present line go up. I wonder strongly if they have some nasty oscillation in their ACC algorithm when used on that many vehicles at once in a row, that they just don't see a reason to fix.
@@apz9032 If adaptive cruise control oscillation when there's many vehicles is keeping the system from going autonomous, why wouldn't Tesla see a reason to fix it?
@@apz9032 TBC or Tesla could make tunnel navigation much easier on themselves in a few ways without even needing metal rails, but for whatever reason it seems they're going to solve the hard way. However the hard way is the same-solution for multiple environments including many city streets.
Technology for factory robots and motion control cameras have solved recording and playing back motion for decades. Record the inputs driving through loop tunnels. Vehicles play them back and duplicate those inputs at the correct time.
Augment that with painted optical markers on the road or walls. Program vehicles with marker locations and how they should match up with recorded inputs. Because vehicles will vary tiny amounts in steering alignment, braking and acceleration, program vehicles how much variance is OK, and how to catch up or slow down with the recording. The cars already seem very capable of staying between equidistant painted road lines.
If an uncommon event causes ACC to kick in and adjust follow distance by slowing down or speeding up, mathematically slow down or speed up the input playback speed. When vehicles reach the next station a short distance away, recalibrate.
Can't believe people actually thought this was a good idea, let alone an idea to spend all kinds of money and resources on...
Said the general populace on about 80% of the schemes bureaucrats and the shady parties who bribe them come up with.
If you want to market Teslas, I'd say it's a pretty smart move. It's essentially a sales pitch that takes loads of people from A to B.
As a public transit system, though ... there are better options. Like for instance removing the cars and just letting people *walk* the few hundred meters through the obstacle-free tunnels.
god for bid they *checks notes* meet all of the required performance while costing 1/3rd of the next closest bidder...?
Correct. God did forbid it.
@@somedude-lc5dy probably with "cost overruns" that doubled the original price
I came for the snark, you did not disappoint :)
Question: Are the tunnels large enough for a rail system when this scheme inevitably fail?
No but the infrastructure could still probably be reused and upgraded rather than demolished.
@@macgobhann8712 I wonder. Running another TBM through sounds implausible given the structure in place, which presumably can't be removed without cave-in. Maybe build temporary shoring in segments, then basically mine by hand? It sounds easier to start from scratch.
Actually yes. From information I found on Wikipedia, the tunnel is 12 ft in diameter, while the seven deep-level lines of the London Underground are 11 ft 8 in. diameter. So yes, with special curved-roof trains like the ones in London you could still use the tunnels for actual mass transit.
@@macgobhann8712 standard guage no, but there's all sorts of narrow guage trams out there, and a number of them could be installed in these tunnels, possibly with some modifications.
No. Musk has stated the goal of the boring company is to cut the cost of tunnelling. One of the key cost drivers of tunneling is diameter of the tube. Thus the tunnels can’t be converted to a conventional train.
The most lead-brained move anyone can make is filling a tunnel with a road instead of track. If Elon wasn't a creatively bankrupt conartist he would have seen the potential of the Boring Company in digging cheap and quick metro tunnels in smaller cities without metro lines. But no, he made a shittier, one-lane roadway underground.
Rails don't sell cars.
not like the boring company tunnels are really cheaper or quicker either.
@@cyri96
On the plus side they're smaller without being cheaper or quicker.
Originally it was sold with the idea of shuttles on a track. I think when they first made the tunnel they had carved out space for tracks, the early reporting of the tunnels showed Teslas with bumper car attachments at the corners to keep them centered so they didn't fall in the trench.
@@cyri96 But but it's the potential to improve upon that is interesting. That is if it wasn't just a vapid pet project for a vapid billionaire.
To give a single figure to illustrate the impracticality of this system: For any amount of passenger flow, at any given time, more wheels will be in motion than there are passengers.
I'm not sure that's all that compelling of a measure. By that same measure, bike lanes are stupid because you have twice as many wheels in motion as passengers.
Whether this system is the "best" idea or not it can't possibly be less practical than taxis on a normal street because at the absolute worst all they've done is created a dedicated closed loop taxi service.
I think lots of people are jacked up over what this system isn't rather than what it actually is. I Uber/Lyft around Vegas all the time when I visit. If all they accomplish is to take that same concept and put it underground with reduced travel times, I'll find it useful.
@@woodsie315 It will also necessarily have to be way more expensive than a taxi service, however, as they also have to pay off the cost of building (and maintaining!) that huge underground tunnel network, as opposed to just using the public roads that are already there.
@@Codraroll Well the whole "key" to the thing is TBC figuring out a way to build tunnels cheaply in the first place. Not really any different than how SpaceX changed the economics of space by figuring out how to make rocket launches dramatically cheaper than ever before.
As far as the maintenance of the tunnels goes, I have no clue to be honest. I don't think you do either. I can't think of any particular major maintenance hog in a tunnel over a regular surface street but probably for lack of imagination than anything else.
At the end of the day, the cost thing is going to be proven out one way or another. As far as I know, it's TBC's dollar on the line here to make it work.
@@woodsie315 Nah, I've got a Master's in civil engineering and can tell you with some authority that tunnels are a maintenance nightmare. Groundwater intrusion, protection against subsidence (and earthquakes if applicable), ventilation, fire protection, ensuring adequate escape routes (including emergency lighting, signage, and reflective surfaces, not to mention the real estate cost of the egress to the surface), removal of rain/surface water that makes it into the tunnels, cleaning ... All those things add up to make a tunnel incredibly expensive to operate in the long run. Not to mention that a regular taxi company doesn't have to maintain the streets on which they operate.
@@Codraroll Fair points. I guess we'll see how it turns out. I guess the good news is that we will know one way or another since they are actually building the thing now.
Ah, the Vegas Loop. A great way to combine all the impracticalities of subways and taxis, without the capacity of the former or the destination flexibility of the latter.
Enron Mollusk: _"If it ain't broke, FIX IT 'TILL IT IS!!!!!!!!!"_
The destination flexibility of this system while not as broad as a taxi service will be significantly higher than a subway. Nobody builds a subway system with as many as 3 stops per city block. Subways get you close, this system, as drawn, gets you all the way there.
The unique opportunity in Vegas is the large number of predictable destinations. Your average visitor to Vegas goes from casino to casino, the airport, and downtown. If this system covers all of those points as proposed, it'll provide full destination coverage for a very large swath of Vegas visitors.
I've been to Vegas dozens of times and what they are showing right now covers ever single destination I've ever had on any prior trip other than things which are rental car territory no matter what (Red Rock, Hoover Dam, Valley of Fire ect).
I read in the LA Times that the Boring Co. was also going to build a tunnels system under LA a few years back. As you so gently point out, the whole idea is beyond stupid, but it gets more more attention than it should in our celebrity-centric culture. More generally, I am pleased that you are talking about urban design, and I find your commentaries and tone spot on. Thank you for making your channel. I am very happy to have been directed to it (after "stumbling upon" the Not Just Bikes channel).
The US really lost its way in the orgiastic aftermath of WW2, creating concrete fantasies that simply don't take into account humans and the actual scale at which we live. I wish I had known about urban design when I was younger, as I would have loved to study it, but now I'll make comments from the sidelines. I grew up in suburban Sacramento and LA and always had an unformed feeling that something was wrong with our streets and places, a feeling that began to take shape when I lived for a year in France as an exchange student, where I had my mind blown by the idea that you didn't have to get in a car just to buy some milk.
This is the sincere and hard hitting journalism I subscribe for.
Just doing my job
The thing is that Elon Musk is a con man on so many levels. He makes predictions off the top of his head with no idea how the tech even works...and then you are evil if you hold him to account for the fact almost all of them are wrong. The simple fact is that autonomous driving tech isn't even close to ready for prime time even for a fixed route in a tunnel. You give way too much deference to the people that got conned into letting this whole thing go forward. Do they know anything about moving people from A to B? This is going to be a big ol waste of money that could have been applied elsewhere to do much better stuff. Why people think Musk is some kind of savant baffles me. He's a con man. That, he monetizes quite well.
Waymo is operating a 120km^2 area around phoenix... are you trolling or just uninformed?
@@somedude-lc5dy Informed enough to know they are 1. still in testing so not in general use, 2. still is having substantial problems, and 3. It's not Tesla, nor Tesla tech ala Elon Musk...so who is trolling
Scott P I think he's taking the piss when he's "giving them credit" 🙂
Watch Tim Dodd's interviews with him at Everyday Astronaut on YT. If that's a con man we need more of them.
@@conveyor2 Here is a better idea...that TED talk debunked ruclips.net/video/KeUvcJUdRK0/видео.html
Oh man you kicked a beehive here. The Elon Musk Fan Club is going to light this comments section up like a firework. "The loop is the most brilliant transit solution in THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!! It has a capacity of 3,000,000 people per second! And cost $500 to build! You are just jealous!"
You forgot DUDE NEEDS TO STOP WORKING FROM HOME AND GO BACK TO THE OFFICE
A couple of usual suspects from other comment sections are already at work here, I see. Still with the same old bunk arguments and fairytale numbers.
*800 comments already, but here's my take:* I LIVE most of the time in Henderson (suburb of Vegas). I just spent 3 days in Amsterdam, 4 days in Barcelona, and 2 days in Valencia Spain. It becomes immediately clear, just from visiting these 3 cities, that there is _Little_ hope for America. _Very Little Hope._ Amsterdam doesn't have a Bicycle Culture, its a Bicycle _CULT!_ Barcelona is less bicycle happy, but is moving rapidly in that direction - probably towards electric-assisted bicycles. Valencia is more like an automobile based structure, but at least the vast majority are compact cars.
The suburban sprawl of Vegas, L.A., and most other American cities was designed around cars. There is no plausible method to change this base infrastructure layout. Work from home is the only model that makes any sense in America.
What American cities can do is eliminate predatory zoning laws that effectively outlaw mixed-use zoning. If they did just that, we'd go a long way to improving our cities.
Also, it would help the suburbs as well since as many of them deteriorate we can build denser developments in their place.
To quote "Not Just Bikes": "American cities were not built that way. They were bulldozed that way."
Move to Chicago. The transit system is quite good (especially compared to the rest of the US). They have buses and train stops every 2 blocks. And they go to every part of the city. 3-6 minute wait times. Unless you’ve got a big family to haul around, there’s no reason to own a car in Chicago, it’s more of a hassle than a convenience. Public transit is easier mostly all the time.
What really bothers me about these tunnels is not that they're so small, and that they just decided to run Teslas through them, it's that they're incredibly unsafe. If anything happens in the tunnel, you can't get out. There's no fire suppression system and no emergency access.
Tunnel fires are fun. Remember when a truck full of margarine and flour caught fire in a tunnel and...
This is dripping with all kinds of sass and I love it
Thanks for the shout out in the comments :)
I don't even know what to make of Vegas anymore. RTC recently released it's BRT corridor plan and they removed the protected bike lanes. When I and other Vegas locals told RTC on twitter that those bike lanes need to be put back into the plans, we just heard crickets. This land is cursed with cowards at all levels of transit policy.
They should remove Car lanes
I remember liking the boring company when they started out. Marketing with the funny flamethrower and the promise of underground what I believed to be PERSONAL (you use your own car) high-speed transportation. Come today they can't even operate their OWN vehicles in a completely weatherless tunnel devoid of practically any external variables. Completely useless company and mission that only seeks to sell more cars and market the Tesla brand. Trains have, do, and will continue to outperform the boring company's vision of transportation. It's like trying to reinvent the wheel when the wheel is perfect for what it needs to do.
Elon: "I invented square wheels to fix parking brakes!"
Musk fans: "GENIUS!!! Take our money!"
@@alexpkeaton4471 Musk: to solve the issue of Square wheels on flat roads i have invented a new road type that is round by having a sinusoidal elevation.
(Somehow makes money selling this rediculous backwards ness of wheel and roads needind 1 to be a circle and the other to be flat)
I do like what he did with SpaceX as actually making "cheep" space travel, and Tesla's are proving that EVs are competitive with gas which has gotten all the major manufacturers in the EV market for real.
I also don't see the point in fanboy-ing over celebrities of any kind, they are still just humans capable of all the same flaws and virtues as anyone else. And defending them online is stupid, they are adults with lawyers, they can handle their own defense.
Tunnels under a city is nothing new either. Look up videos of the underground street network in Helsinki, Finland, the service tunnels that's several city blocks connected underground, acting like delivery access, parking lots, bomb shelters, you name it. And we're to believe that the Boring Company is remotely anything new or ground-breaking?
I wanted to make a flamethrower joke when I got to the part about the County Amusement Ride code, but it was a little on the nose
Don’t forget the Boring Company was supposed to make really strong bricks with all the dirt they dug out making the tunnels!
I love the sarcasm. Hits hard. I actually had 2 classmates who worked for Boring company around 2018 and it was apparently an awful place to work.
Well that's hard to believe
Borowitz ran a headline today: Elon Musk Mystified That Tesla Employees Don’t Want to Spend All Day with Him
*Please ignore the tesla shill in the comments* The snark is so good. My mate was speaking at the vegas convention centre and ended up stuck in a downpour because she is a wheelchair user and they didn't have the lift van running that day. The attendant literally said she could just wheel herself to the building she needed. In a downpour.
The Convention Centre has a separate existing non-Loop service for wheelchair users. However, the full 29 mile 51 station Vegas Loop will have dedicated wheelchair-carrying vans for those users.
@@andrewfranklin4429 You know what is a wheelchair accessible vehicle? A train.
@@thelovewizard8954 yes, but poor wheelchair users have to fight all the crowds to get on those trains and they dare not go too slow and hold up the entire train. In contrast, with the Loop, they get their own dedicated vehicle and they can take as long as they like.
The Loop is even better for them because Loop stations at about $2m each cost between 50 and 350x cheaper than subway stations and you could build between 10-100 miles of Loop tunnels for every mile of subway tunnel.
This means it is possible to put Loop stations right at the front door of every hotel, casino, office block, sports stadium, school, University, shopping centre, Rec centre etc etc for VASTLY better wheelchair access.
And that is exactly what is happening in Las Vegas with 51 hotels, casinos, the University, sports stadium etc all getting their own Loop station.
@@andrewfranklin4429 you know what else is a dedicated wheelchair accessible vehicle that can go literally anywhere? Dial-a-lift buses (or whatever they are called in your area) that can carry at least double the volume and don't have to rely on a tunnel where they still have to use an elevator to get out of, but are dropped off literally at their destination. You don't have to reinvent the wheel here.
@@thelovewizard8954 perhaps you’re not aware that most of the 51 stations in the now under construction 29 mile Vegas Loop are above-ground right at the very front door of pretty much every hotel, casino, University, stadium etc in Las Vegas.
No need of lifts like subway trains require and unlike buses, the Loop EVs don’t get stuck in Vegas gridlock but rather travel at high speed direct to their destinations I stead of having to stop and wait at every single station/bus stop on the line/route.
If you're going to have cars, at least play to their strengths. This takes the weaknesses of cars and mass transit and combines them without the strengths of either!
it does play to the cars strengths, no mention in this video about the system being a non-stop point to multi-point system
Well put
Do you think cars only. Maybe a 12 person electric van made perfectly for the tunnels. Subway in Las Vegas $5.6 billion enjoy that tax bill if you’re in Vegas. Don’t try to ride the subway though you might get shot or stabbed.
We would call this concept a "House Boat": Not a good house, and not a good boat.
It plays in cars strengths. Ie making Elon money
The Boring company sent an unsolicited bid to make a tunnel in San Bernardino county California (to ONT airport) then pulled out because they couldn't meet the requirements they themselves made up in their initial proposal. I'm SHOCKED that the Las Vegas loop is also vaporware.
that's not true.
@@somedude-lc5dy Go listen to the SBCTA January 2022 Transit Committee meeting (the relevant section is around minute 24 of the recording) as well as the January 2022
Board of Directors meeting (starting around minute 48). It's pretty stark. They county transit agency seems rather frustrated with them backing out on promises in the unsolicited proposal.
@@MartinHoeckerMartinez I live near ONT airport, thank the force/god/etc. that Musk's vaporware isn't gonna be a thing.
"Hey, city, we will build this to-good-to-be-true transport system that will revolutionize your city, practically for free!"
"Oh, you will? Sweet, go ahead!"
"... oh crap! We- ... we thought you'd say no, so we'd be able to brag about our proposed figures without having to prove them! We were just kidding! Offer withdrawn!"
I'm reminded of the phrase, "Build a fucking train!"
It seemed kind of an afterthought in this video, but I appreciated your mentioning the perennial "cost control" debate among very-online transit ppl. Having grown up in the DC Metro area & seen the damage that kind of austerity budgeting can do to a transit system, I always find these arguments frustrating. But I'd love to hear more from someone with actual professional expertise what the impact of austerity budgeting looks like from the inside, rather than just from the rider's perspective.
The Las Vegas Loop is a taxi service in a short, closed system. If a passenger paid the full cost of a trip, there would be a savings by sharing the vehicle with strangers, and the ride is faster than walking. But that's it.
If it attempts to expand along The Strip it will need to use much larger vehicles (requiring larger tunnels), and it will have to observe all the safety laws governing public subways. For large-volume public transit, it makes more sense to invest in a driverless rail system (I'm thinking like London's DLR), perhaps improving on today's successful technology.
Not just a taxi service, but also a Tesla marketing scheme. That's probably why they bid so far below cost: they're getting tons of people to sit in a Tesla and chat with a sales representative for a few minutes, while also moving them from A to B.
Adding some rubber-tired higher capacity vehicles like the 16 passenger Pods or small-ish rubber tyre trams or buses could certainly be useful in the Loop for high traffic routes - particularly pre and post events at the Stadium or on very busy routes between high traffic destinations during peak hour.
However, it would be important to retain probably a majority percentage of small capacity vehicles such as the 4-7 passenger Teslas to realise the benefits of personalised point-to-point transit.
As soon as you have to start using larger capacity vehicles, you either have to ensure everyone on that vehicle is going to the same destination or you need to have that vehicle stop at multiple destinations on the way like a bus, tram or train.
Either of those options is certainly possible but they do have the disadvantages of slowing down the transit for those passengers. No longer do they walk into the station, jump into the first available EV and immediately drive off to their destination at high speed with no stopping in between.
Instead they have to wait for a bus/pod/tram that is going to their destination and/or wait to fill it with other passengers also going to the same destination or be forced to go to potentially many other stations (10, 15, 20?) on the way to their destination. All of this adds extra time to their trip and slows down the average speed of the vehicle with frequent stops.
With only 1-4 people in an EV you don’t have to go to other stops on the way to your destination. And if some sort of allocation/ride-share system is introduced, throughput efficiency can be improved even more.
Outside of peak hours, instead of having to wait 30 minutes or an hour for an infrequent bus/tram/train, with individual EVs always waiting at every station, you have instant access to a whole EV to yourself to go directly to your destination at high speed.
it occurs to me that the biggest advantage of self driving cars in the US is that it will finally let us break the 1 occupant per vehicle barrier and get down as low as .25 occupants per vehicle, assuming we have old fuddy-duddies who insist on riding along while their car is out driving around for no good reason.
LV Monorail: "Man, I'm such a complete POS! A waste of space, nobody likes me...." LV Loop: "Hold my Beer, Son!"
Your undying sarcasm fuels the flame of the transit revolution. Long live low-capacity, high cost transit options for high income individuals.
RealLifeLore trying to paint CA High Speed rail as a failure, meantime, CityNerd tackling real failed systems of transit. Keep up the good work! And it may not be in your wheelhouse, but having been looking into how roads are funded, and that much of it is funded through general funds has been eye opening for how little roads cater to all modes of transport
reallifelore doing such an awful job he deleted the video out of embarrassment.
@@winspaarkiebarkiebarker oh shit really?!
I will admit, the California HSR project does look like a "failure" when compared to HSR projects in China, Europe or Japan, but this is how nearly every single large infrastructure project goes in the US. There are valid gripes to be made with what's been going on, but like I said, every other large infrastructure project in this country has had the same exact issues. What people and Americans in specific aren't understanding is that HSR or the project itself isn't the problem, it's how this country has tackled projects like these that is the real issue.
@@chromebomb apparently so.
I know the project has lots of issues because California is worse than the rest of the US at running this sort of thing but i wouldn't call it a failure yet, just horribly managed for now.
both can be failures, and for the same reason: despite the promises made when they were planned and advertised, they have not been built, and we see no real signs that anything close to the promises made then will be fulfilled in years to come.
Imagine if instead of Teslas in the Vegas Loop, you had a bike sharing service ala Citibike or Divy bikes and the tunnels are for the bikes.
Well it would be nice to protect bike riders from the scorching sun of Nevada, as long as it has good ventilation
@@cardenasr.2898 If it has cars (even EVs) then it should have to have good ventilation or it gets declared a "confined space" and those require special permission to enter (low oxygen hazards are no joke)
That would kill
The problem is that the Loop is being extended 29 miles down and around the Vegas Strip as we speak.
Tourists carrying luggage or tired children are not going to want to ride bikes those sorts of distances.
@@andrewfranklin4429 It's not, though. It's stuck in the paperwork stage. No actual construction is taking place. Watch the damn video.
As a resident of Northwest Arkansas I would love to see a video on bicycle trail systems in cities. Keep up the great work.
As a resident of Edmonton? I agree! Our city is currently on its way to building out its bikeway system on top of its river valley bike trail system... The best way to decarbonize transit for the masses!
Does NWA have a reputation for good city trail networks? I stayed in Fayetteville for a summer and was impressed by the network there, even if it didn't go to many useful places.
@@AssBlasster We are more known for MTB trails, but a huge surge of paved traffic during the pandemic and increase in ebike ownership.
Ditto except for Las Vegas. Also a mixture of paved and off road trails.
Agree. If City Nerd needs a woman travelling around one of the best cycling infrastructure in the word (Amsterdam), count on me!
Here’s one thing I don’t understand. Why don’t we have autonomous trams, trolleys or subways already? They are on dedicated paths so really only have to stop or go and don’t have to worry about pedestrians or other vehicles very much. And operators are paid a lot so it would save a ton of money. How can we be closer to autonomous cars on a normal highway than to an autonomous metro train in DC or subway in NYC?
In Santiago Chile we've had self driving trains a few years now.
as a Vegas local...I'm embarrassed. Plain and simple.
Oscar Goodman and the Raiders didn't embarrass you before this?????
As well as that Bagel store?
As someone whose parents are from Argentina and grew up watching those teams, you're stadium selection and jersey made my day!
Haha, I might have to go down there if Messi comes back
The true power of CityNerd's anger and sarcasm is finally coming out in this video. Love the saga so far and excited for the full emergence.
So if one of the cars breaks down in a tunnel, the entire system fails, right?
Also, do you get to deduct the NOB shirt as a business expense?
My first time ever riding any kind of transit was a tram in an airport, I think it was in Atlanta, and I mean, it worked just fine. Loads of people used it and it was really fast. Vegas could've built something just like that and it'd be way better.
But Boring Co underbid so they could market Teslas to convention-goers
@@CityNerd I wonder what the cost overruns were like.
@@CityNerd TBC’s bid was $150 million less than the competing bids for elevated and underground trains. How much of that was taking a loss in order to sell teslas to convention-goers? And how many teslas will they have to sell to people who wouldn’t otherwise buy one to make up for it?
It’s possible that TBC undercut the competition on the convention center loop, and there is no question they are lowballing with their $0 bid to build the 29 mile Vegas loop. But their primary purpose isn’t to sell cars. It’s to sell tunnels.
The Boring Co has just submitted a bid to the city of Miami for a 6.2 mile Loop with 7 underground stations in a straight line from the city to the beach which has some more interesting figures on capacity and costs of Loop type networks.
It will handle 7,500 passengers per hour with the option of scaling it up to 15,000 people per hour.
Estimated cost is around $185-$220 million which gives us a cost per mile of a remarkably cheap $30m - $35.5m per mile for a dual tunnel, a cost which in this case also includes an underground station every mile instead of the much cheaper above-ground stations of the 29 mile Vegas Loop.
In contrast, an above-ground, much slower light rail would cost over $1.2 billion while a subway would cost upwards of $3 billion.
@@andrewfranklin4429 7,500 pax/hour/ 2.5 pax/vehicle = 3000 vehicles/hr = ~1.2 seconds between vehicles. That's the dispatch frequency it needs to achieve that number, using the recognized way to count. It's equivalent to a highway lane running at capacity. Underground. Stopping at several stations to pick up passengers. Pardon me for considering that number to be utter bunk.
And the cost estimates too. The reason why everyone else submits bids in the billions is because *that's how much it costs* to do a project like this. There's land acquisition, and soil testing, and mapping of affected infrastructure, and planning, and engineering, and maintenance, and HR, and depositing the excavated soil, and all the whatnot; fixed costs that are completely independent from the digging of the tunnel itself, and those easily run into the hundreds of millions for a project this size. The digging process is only a very small part of it, and it's the only one The Boring Company are addressing.
This is pretty much guaranteed to end like the San Bernardino project somebody mentioned in another comment: A proposal made for the publicity, turning into vapourware as soon as somebody begins to crunch the actual numbers and not the fairytale ones.
Your sense of humour, sir, is, as always, on point. You slay me.
For the first minute I watched in horror as I thought you were serious about the Vegas Loop being great and a game-changer, then your weapons-grade cynicism kicked in. Awesome video.
I came for the informative videos but stayed for the snark. Bravo.
They could use Glasgow or London Underground style trains in those tunnels - heck, even the Glasgow subway tunnels are smaller in diameter. I hope they wise up and convert them to train/tram tunnels
londons is grandfathered in, you shouldnt build new tunnels like that
but why? until the system reaches capacity, smaller vehicles are better. lower wait time, EVs actually use less energy than trains on a per passenger-mile basis, and EVs can bypass intermediate stops. capacity isn't everything. high ridership areas need trains, low ridership areas still have demand for grade-separated transportation but won't exceed the capacity of 2-3 fares in an EV.
Why indeed would you put trains in those tunnels which are 5x slower than the Loop, less comfortable and VASTLY more expensive? The 29 mile 51 station Loop is now being built at ZERO cost to taxpayers compared to around $15 billion for an equivalent subway.
With the LVCC Loop handling 27,000 people per day across the 3 stations, we are looking at 9,000 people per day per Loop station. As there are around 8 Loop stations for every subway station per mile through the busier parts of Las Vegas that means the Loop is capable of handling 8 x 9,000 ppd = 72,000 people per day which is double even the busiest subway station DUAL platform averages in Europe (Paris’s Gare de Nor) which handles 38,888 people per day per dual platform on average.
Even if we ignore peak period increases on the Loop and assume every hour had exactly the same number of people per hour, over the 8 hours of operation, that works out as 72,000/8 = 9,000 people per hour for those 8 Loop stations compared to only the 3,950 pph average at Oxford Circus Station (2,160 pph per line) the busiest Tube-only station on the London Underground.
I am a transporter for rentacar center who lives at the loopy loop. I found your work way interesting and complete. Good job. Way informative.
I really enjoyed the level of sarcasm reached in this video, especially when you suggested talking to the airport operators.
Oh for a show with CityNerd, Thunderf00t, and NotJustBikes. Turn in the mics and cameras, let 'em talk, and we all win.
Trade thunderfoot for climate town
I love this Gen X youtuber shit we need way more of it
Charlotte NC is probably one of the largest cities with a pathetic public transit. The challenge is the layout with 5 directions away from center and scattered neighborhoods. Bus routes are mostly hub and spoke, having to go far longer than necessary to traverse neighborhoods. They have a single light rail that covers 2 of the 5 directions away from the city center and a new trolley that covers some of 2 more directions. The finally have added an outer loop that helps avoid the busy city center. But the only thing that’s saved total gridlock is the large remote workforce the last 2 years. Many won’t go back to a daily commute, no matter the method.
I've been waiting for you to cover the Loop! Your sarcasm is in this one is off the charts lol. Also love your cat. Hey Charles!
I was in Vegas a few weeks ago for a trade show and rode the Loop to get between halls at the LVCC. It was always fun telling other attendees asking how to get to the other halls that they could take a free chauffeured Tesla to get there.
Here's a thought: Let's make the Teslas bigger and link several of them together. And since they're traveling on a closed loop, we can replace the rubber tires with more efficient metal ones that can run on a track. And since they won't leave the tunnels... we can replace the battery with a pantograph and negative terminal line. And Elon, being the pro at naming, can come up with a cool, snappy name like Metro or SubWay...
Have you seen the planned map? It has a lot of loops and shortcuts, which lets individual vehicles take the best route to their destination. A train wouldn’t be able to use these tunnels very well. So even if you like stopping at every station along the way, and you enjoy doing transfers, it’s not going to work in those tunnels.
Bets are open now for following:
- How much the 51 Station plan will be downscaled?
- How much of the 51 Station plan will actually be build?
- How long until the whole system get abandoned?
- How long until they install a track for some kind of train?
Why do you think that Pascal? The Loop is already handling 27,000 people per day during large conventions which is higher than the platform average of every subway station in Europe.
@@andrewfranklin4429 Paris automated subway line 14 moves 550,000 people per day over 13 stations, that's 23,000 people per platform per day, with an inter-station distance average of 1 km. Peak capacity is at 35,000 people per hour per direction, with a maximum waiting time of 85 seconds. Speed averages at 45 km/h
The line 1 moves 715,000 people per day over 25 stations, that's 15,000 people per platform per day, with an inter-station distance average of 700 m. Peak capacity is at 25,000 people per hour per direction, with a maximum waiting time of 105 seconds. Speed averages at 30 km/h. At rush hour it is unbearably saturated.
The loop has three stations, so that's 6750 people per day per platform, for an inter-station distance of 700 m. Peak capacity is sold to be about 4000 people per hour per direction. Speed averages at 56 km/h.
The loop kinda works as a fairly costly people mover within the convention center, but it is no mass transit system.
Point to point transportation can on paper help with travel time and make potential stops more frequent, but it does not help much with capacity : if 35,000 people need to cross some point in one hour in one direction, the starting and ending point of their journey is irrelevant.
I would also like to note that signalisation failures are a common cause of delays in train based transit systems, an issue that would be exponentially worse for the absolute nightmare of synchronisation that the loop project requires.
@@jeanf6295 hi Jean. If you have a look at the map of the now-under construction 34 mile, 55 station Vegas Loop, you will see there will be around 8 Loop stations for every subway station per mile (17 in the 2 miles of the CBD) through the busier parts of Las Vegas
The existing convention centre Loop is a prime example of this fact as it already has 3 stations serving that one venue and the fourth LVCC station (LVCC North) has just been constructed and there are three other stations within a few hundred metres of the centre as well, meaning that the LVCC will effectively have 7 Loop stations servicing large convention crowds.
With a subway, there would only be a single station typically serving such a destination.
As such, comparing the average daily passengers through the turnstiles of the three stations of the LVCC Loop during large conventions is actually unfair to the Loop as we need to be comparing all 7 (or 8) of those stations (once they are completed) against each subway platform-pair for a more accurate comparison. But even with just three stations it still compares remarkably well.
@@jeanf6295 so the 27,000 people per day of the Convention centre Loop is:
- greater than the number of passengers that 65% of the stations on the London Underground individually handle daily which with 1.8 million passengers per day across 272 stations averages only 6,617 passengers per day PER STATION.
- more than the 24,858 passengers per day per line pre-pandemic average of Kings Cross station, the busiest station on the Tube which pre-pandemic had 149,150 entries per day across 6 lines.
- more than the average of 13,684 people PER STATION per day of the entire Paris Metro which had a pre-pandemic ridership of 4.16 million per day over 304 stations.
- about 70% the 38,888 people per day per platform pair average of the busiest station on the Paris Metro, the Gare Du Nord which pre-pandemic handled 700,000 people per day across 36 platforms.
- more than the 14,000 passengers per day per line average of the Stuttgart Main Station S-Bahn which pre-pandemic saw 140,000 passengers across 10 lines through the turnstiles daily.
And that is ignoring the fact that most of the subway figures above were from pre-pandemic times. Now, most subways are running at half of those capacities so the performance of the pandemic-affected Loop is even more impress
@@jeanf6295 now if you refuse to call the Loop “public transport” then what is Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) and light rail which transport less than the Loop?
Bus Rapid Transit (at grade) has very low capacity:
90 passengers per vehicle * 15 vehicles per hour = 1,350 pph.
And low average speed of 9mph due to city traffic and having to stop and wait at every stop.
$0.68 - $9m per mile
Bus Rapid Transit (grade-separated) has low capacity:
90 passengers per vehicle * 30 vehicles per hour = 2,700 pph.
And but still slow average speeds of 12-22mph.
$13-50m per mile
Light Rail Transit (at grade) has medium capacity:
90 passengers per vehicle * 3 vehicles per train * 15 vehicle sets per hour = 4,050 pph.
But slow speeds of 9mph -12mph due to city traffic and having to stop and wait at every station.
$50m - $100m per mile
Light Rail Transit (grade-separated) high capacity:
90 passengers per vehicle * 3 vehicles per train * 30 vehicle sets per hour = 8,100 pph.
And still pretty slow average speeds of 15mph due to having to stop and wait at every station.
$201m per mile
Subways have very high capacity:
100 passengers per vehicle * 10 vehicles per train * 30 vehicle sets per hour = 30,000 pph.
But still slow average speeds of 17-22mph due to having to stop and wait at every station.
$600m- $1 billion per mile
$100m - $1 billion per station
The 34 mile Vegas Loop (2.5 passengers per EV) will have high capacity:
2.5 passengers per vehicle * 4,000 EVs per hour = 10,000 pph
AND very high average speeds of 60mph thanks to direct point-to-point travel at high speeds.
$20m per mile (dual tunnel)
$1.5m per above-ground station
The 34 mile Vegas Loop (4 passengers per EV w ride sharing) will have higher capacity:
4 passengers per vehicle * 4,000 EVs per hour = 16,000 pph
AND very high average speeds of 60mph thanks to direct point-to-point travel at high speeds.
$20m per mile (dual tunnel)
$1.5m per above-ground station
But the Vegas Loop isn’t just one line down the centre, but up to 3 separate arterial tunnel pairs (6 tunnels in total) in parallel at times - particularly around the Allegiant Stadium to assist with handling the peaks pre and post games. That gives a throughput of 30,000 pph one way (or 48,000 pph with 4pax per car) or 60,000 (96,000pph w 4pax) bi-directionally over those high traffic sections. And there are several other sections where small loops come off to serve groups of stations through the heart of the city so the numbers continue to multiply.
And the great thing about the Loop topology is that if there is more demand, more tunnels and stations can be built at a cost vastly cheaper than a subway.
The Boring Co has actually rated the 34 mile, 55 station Loop at a minimum of 57,000 people per hour and is actually being built at ZERO cost to taxpayers vs $10 billion for a subway.
Whichever way you look at it, the Loop absolutely is ”public transport”.
Transit is expensive because it's regulated.
Regulators never even considered the possibility that someone would be dumb enough to put giant lithium batteries in a tunnel so narrow that you can't open your vehicle doors if you get stuck in say... a lithium battery fire.
Your sarcasm is on point :D Thank you for the fantastic content, as always
11:50
If it's such a short tunnel why don't they put in moving walkways instead of using vehicles?
12:29 the convention center is the first step. In phases 29 miles will happen.
Because that wouldn't sell any Teslas.
@@colormedubious4747 In fact Tesla intends to take Teslas off the market intentionally after autonomous driving is commonplace. For rent only.
@@conveyor2 So, Zipcar with Teslas, then?
Moving sidewalks only travel at 1.4mph. That means it would take over an hour to get you to the other end of the 1.7 mile convention Center instead of 2 minutes on the Loop!
That is even worse once the rest of the 29 mile 51 station Vegas Loop is constructed - a moving sidewalk would take you 10 hours to travel from one side of the city to the other!
When I listen to you talk about this, I get a strong feeling of someone at “peak meh”. I love it! You sir, have earned one like for this video. Well done.
I absolutely love your sense of humour. And your cat pause😄
Given the distances these tunnels cover I'm pretty sure they could drastically increase capacity by just investing in a few hundred bikes and getting rid of the cars. It's like, 3kms. A bike does that in 10 minutes easy anyway. It would also likely be cheaper, more energy efficient and unlike cars not cause traffic jams. A big enough fleet of bikes probably could move 4400 people per hour too.
I believe I saw somewhere in the plans for the Loop that they want to expand it into autonomous autobuses that hold 12-15 passengers per ride. Still can’t compete with a real subway system
A subway's largest cost is the massive stations, with the escalators and elevators needed to get passengers to the surface. The trains are confined to the tracks, so you need a fleet of busses to get passengers to and from the stations. Overall it's very inefficient.
I don't know why I get so excited when I see NJ transit buses in videos
That fire protection thing is what I've been wondering about. What happens if there's a bunch of cars in the tunnel and one catches fire? Smoke gets everywhere pretty quick and I think temperature can peak too, spreading the fire. I don't think there are emergency exits or such. I suppose though that the stations are close together so maybe its thought that people can just get out that way.
Anyway the really interesting thing here is what is really the logic for each party. What is the business interest for boring company, is this just marketing and they make their money some other way (how?). And for the convention center, I guess they just got it cheap and the need for transport wasn't that big to begin with? It's pretty weird though. The whole loop is like one of those things that when someone came up with them they seemed futuristic but a couple of decades later they are just so outdated and a remnant of something that never really became anything. Except that the loop is like that from day 1.
They do have plans for fires. They'd of course evacuate the tunnels, and the drivers are trained to drive in reverse if they receive a certain signal, such as the tunnel lights turning solid red. One driver said they wouldn't hire you unless you demonstrated you could drive in reverse (not that it's difficult in a modern car with a backup camera). They have powerful ventilation that would blow smoke and heat away from the evacuating cars.
This system makes me think something like an Airport style peoplemover would have been so much better.
Also an Idea for a video about best Airport People movers, for example when I flew from Pittsburgh to Tokyo via Dulles in DC, I was surprised that while Pittsburgh has an on Rail People Mover, Dulles has Bus like people movers, although there is a Train now, so I guess Dulles has gotten with the times.
Doppelmayr bid $215 million for a people mover like the Oakland Airport Connector to BART. The Boring Company bid $48.7 million.
someone bid that. it was 3x the price. the boring company is providing a service that meets the needs of the LVCC for less money.
I'd be interested when they are able to make the swith to autonomic cars. Because at the moment they are likely burning money and not really able to turn a profit with the 46m
The second lowest bid for the LVCC was actually 4x the cost of the Loop and it was for an above-ground light rail, so it wasn't even underground.
Thanks for putting taxi & rideshare drivers out of business assholes !!
This truly is innovative. It manages to bring together transit advocates and car lovers, by disappointing both of them. It has none of the freedom or ownership that comes with a car - or even the flexibility of a taxi. Meanwhile it has none of the resource efficiency, throughput, or convenience of public transit. Truly, it is the worst of both worlds - a special kind of awful.
And yet, as a passenger, it promises to get me where I want to go with less wait time and less travel time. Individual passengers don't matter of course. A train can take me all kinds of places I don't want to go before I get to where I want to be. Since passengers are going to spend so much more time on the train, and waiting for the train, the trains and the stations have to have more capacity.
Bro. That 51-station system they got approval to build could have been an actually good, high capacity mode of public transit in a city that could really use it, but instead we get cars in tunnels. I hope the city gets smart and pulls the plug before they dump any more money on this thing.
The city isn’t dumping any money. TBC is paying for the tunnels. The venues are paying for the stations.
TBC will operate the system and pay a portion of the fares they collect TO the county as a franchise fee.
Sarcasm is spot on, as usual. Love it. Keep em coming!
'hey lets put these cars in a tunnel so small they cant open their doors or flee in the event of a fire or accident"
Wow! Your video-making skills improved a lot over the past year!
It took me till halfway to realize you had a tone of sarcasm. Love it though. Your channel is incredibly informative and enjoyable
This video was sooooo good! I’ve been a subscriber for almost a year now and your videos never disappoint! Keep up the great work buddy!
Cheers from St. Louis, MO
Putting the fridge in the hallway right outside the kitchen doorway is a space savings strategy I've never seen before. Does it work well?
This was long awaited, and superbly executed. Well done Mr. City Nerd. The level of sarcasm was off the charts, i have no idea how you were able to keep a straight face in some of the passages 😂
i would like to buy you a beer haha. really enjoy it when a new video comes out. Growing up in Australia i never knew what public transport was until i moved to Germany. Its like a whole new world has opened i had never seen before. cheers.
The loop is critical to making people think the monorail is worthwhile.
So... if the full system is built and I'm waiting at a stop... I just gotta hope that when a car comes at least one of the three people are trying to get out at that station? You could argue that "Full subway cars have the same problem" but I'm more willing to squeeze into a full subway car than I am a full sedan.
Cars will come about every 6 seconds. Only some will stop at mid-line stations if that's an occupant's destination. A bus is high capacity but if most of the time every bus stop has someone waiting to get on or off, the bus makes tons of stops and has a slow unappealing average speed.
@@flinx So if you're standing on the mid-line station, is there any way to hail a passing car? And won't the passengers already in the car roll their eyes and lament the fact that they have to share a ride with strangers? What if one of those passengers is getting off on the next station, so the car stops again to let him off and pick up a new one who's also not going to the same place as his fellow passengers so even more stops are scheduled, essentially creating the same issue as a bus would have?
@@Codraroll Smartphone app and kiosks in station are two possible ways to hail a car. TBC in Las Vegas plans to charge per vehicle not per person so if someone doesn't want to pay more for a totally private ride they'll share it and maybe make a few stops along their trip. It will still be faster than a bus.
Check out MIT CSAIL research that used public data from NYC taxi rides to develop an algorithm that can replace 14,000 taxis with only 3,000 four-seat vehicles. Applying that to The Boring Company loops, algorithmically the first vehicle with an open seat may not stop to pick someone up if that person's destination would slow down other occupants more than it would save the person's time. So instead some number of seconds later another vehicle with an open seat stops to pick the person up.
A Norwich City reference in a prior video, and now a Newell's Old Boys article of clothing in this one... I like your style, sir!
Love the shirt gag! My video suggestion this time around isn't a topic suggestion, but a suggestion to do a collaboration/crossover episode with another urban/transportation channel. Those are always fun and are great for attracting new viewers.
The Vegas loop is basically the Ford Magic Skyway but you have to drive the cars yourself.
I'll pass and ride on The Carousel Of Progress #theresagreatbigbeautifultomorrow
WEDway People Mover or GTFO.
A video on a walking walkway network would be nice. Don't really know if it's feasible to make that an important part of a public transit system but it would definitely be cool to at least theoretically see how it would work
A one-way, one-lane transit system fulfills the common phrase: "What goes on in Vegas, stays in Vegas" and quoting the Eagles: "You can check out, but you can never leave"
Being recommended this channel is the highlight of my week
The aim of the system is to have point-to-point transit which will only really become useful when a larger part of the system has been built. So it could be some time (many years) before we will see if it makes sense to have this kind of system. The jury is out on it for the moment. If it does work then you'll be able to travel from any one point to any other point without any stops or changes. If it doesn't then they'll repurpose the tunnels to something more useful.
This is the start of a genius, revolutionary idea. We just need to make the cars into larger pods to carry more people, with seats and room to stand. We can attach a bunch of them together to carry even more people. Let's replace rubber tires with steel wheels on steel tracks, less resistance so less energy needes to move them. We can add platform boarding. I suggest trying it out in New York. I even thought of a name: Subterranean Underground Bypass for Wagons Accelerating You, we can call it SUBWAY for short.
Genius.
That’s going to cost a lot of money, and make the system less useful for passengers. Better to take some of your ideas, such as larger pods mixed in with the smaller ones. When you have groups of people all going from point A to point B, it makes sense to put them in larger pods. But putting people into pods indiscriminately means each pod has to stop several times (once for each passenger destination). Hook all the pods together and it’s going to have to stop at every station just in case someone there wants to board one of the chained pods and go somewhere else.
That really cuts into your level of service!
@@kevinbailey8827 ruclips.net/video/2sRS1dwCotw/видео.html
@@electric7487 Explain.
When I first heard about the Vegas tunnels I thought they would have the capacity to carry at last 5-7 adult passengers per trip. I just don't see waiting in a line of people for a 3 passenger car. Guess I would only wait in line if the loop is open that day!
It was originally pitched showing much larger capacity vehicles. But now it's just mass market Teslas. Curious
3 passengers assuming you're all fine with sitting together, that is. One of the selling points of the Loop was that sitting with other people is icky. Worst case, the queue ahead of you will consist solely of people who want a vehicle to themselves.
The nice thing about the Loop is that it was able to move 27,000 people per day with just 2.5 people per vehicle on average. That's excellent capacity while still retaining the option to have a whole EV to yourself if you wanted to. And the wait times averaged only 15 seconds so virtually zero queues.
@@andrewfranklin4429 This is not true...several people have stated they had to wait a while for cars during peak demand.
@@rajnadar6555 I’d be interested to know what sort of wait time those people indicated? Do you happen to know Raj? Was it anything like the 3, 5, 10 or 30 minute waiting times of light rail or subways?
The LVCVA reports that “the LVCC Loop’s average ride time was under 2 minutes during CES 2022. The average passenger wait time was below 15 seconds” and in the many videos of the Loop in action, I haven’t ever seen any videos of queues of people standing waiting to get into any of the stations.
Have you seen any such videos by any chance?
this must win an award for most sarcastic video ever. i can only imagine coming across this video without knowing the background and being so confused at the tone and affect vs the words
Not saying that billionaires name really made me like this channel. Showing a little thumbnail of his face for a couple seconds is acceptable. Subbed!
Thanks for your reporting on this joke of a "transit" system. I can't imagine Elon Musk is so dim not to recognize how pointless and inefficient this is.I feel he thinks he can make up any statistics he wants, and gets to have videos of Teslas running through "cool" tunnels. The benefit of the outside perception is what he's aiming for. Impressing City Nerds is low on his priority list.
The plan was always to have cars travel through cheaply built tunnels. The Vegas thing is just a marketing gimmick, and not a very good one. There's nothing wrong with taking cars underground in certain areas.
Elon Musk is no fool though. He knows that actual results don't matter that much, it's hype that matters.
Given your video on the monorail, how accessible and visible is the station at Resorts World?
(BTW, I’ve walked from the Strip to the North Hall. It was long, hot, no shade, and mostly empty of buildings.)
Public transport, dry wit, Bielsa and football 🤩 subscribed 👌🏿
I just watched the video on the busiest tunnels and buses. It’s amazing that 9 of them are heading into Manhattan, and 6 of them are crossing the East River. Is there any other commuting pattern with similar people crossing a similarly large body of water? I’d love to see a video showing commutes across large bodies of water. How does the East River compare to the Bosphorus, San Francisco Bay, Victoria Harbor, Thane Creek (Mumbai), the Nile, etc?
Up to you on which bodies of water count. I would think it would need to be at least a major river: for example the Hudson counts as it’s a major river; the Harlem river doesn’t.
@Citynerd love the video, I think while cars through a tunnel is pretty stupid, the unique selling point of boring company is how fast they can drill a tunnel. Which also can be used for subways. They used to drill using diesel generators which has way lower torque, a lot of pollution and highly flammable. This is where the boring company really shines!
This is often cited but so far hasn't been backed up. The tunneling speed in Las Vegas was about as fast as on other TBM projects, and that's despite having such a small scale and no unreasonable difficulties (like building through water levels or whatever).
I find it interesting you didn't bring up the Morgantown PRT (Motown Represent!) but still a good video, and loved the dry humor as always. Ignoring the immediate obvious flaws and assuming they'll be fixed (autonomous vehicles and dedicated loop vehicles with higher capacity), I think the Las Vegas loop could actually work*
*As a someone who had to ride the Morgantown PRT several times a week, I had a lot of time to think about its role. I always thought the PRT was idiotic, as its entire purpose from the start was to move students back and fourth between the new and downtown campuses, 3 miles apart. I always thought that they should have just put in a bus lane (I still think this) but I thought it had no advantages and was just more expensive.
The thing that made me realize the PRT actually succeeds at its job (besides frequent mechanical failures due to its age) is that it's designed for *frequency*, not capacity. Criticizing the PRT or the Loop for its low capacity sorta misses the point in my opinion, because its not trying to compete on that front. The PRT has more than enough capacity for its job, while providing only a 5 minute wait, and this wait is artificial, sorta like calling an elevator when its already at your floor but still having to wait with the doors open. A fully functioning Loop with AVs and something like 15-20 people per car would have a pretty descent capacity, but the frequency can scale to demand to be as low as possible. I personally think that trade off isn't that worth it, especially in a city as big as Vegas and with all the added complexity it requires, but I do understand why some people do, and in a resort city setting like Vegas it does make some sense. I'm honestly very interested to see how a fully functioning Loop performs with proper vehicles. Even if they aren't replacing subways anytime soon, It'll still be an interesting system to observe.
Automated trains are legit a thing. Vancouver Skytrain has been running since 1985 and can run at 75 second headways (although typically is about 110ish seconds during rush hour). You don't need to invent something like PRT or as dumb as Teslas in tunnels. Vancouver and Las Vegas have similar populations, so it's not like LV couldn't have built out a transit system with proven technology.
The Morgantown GRT (Group Rapid Transit) was one of four demonstration projects authorized during the Nixon Administration. It was not built to "move students," it was built as proof-of-concept and it was built at WVU because Byrd had a lot of pull.
The Las Vegas Loop, on the other hand, was built as a last-ditch attempt to salvage the failing Boring Company and as a gimmick to sell cars.
@@agntdrake , you're not understanding what OP is saying. what happens if you don't have the demand to fill entire trains? even automated trains have very high operating costs. your choice is either A) really expensive service per passenger-mile, or B) you make passengers wait 10-15 minutes between trains, which makes for very poor quality service. an EV with a single person in it costs less per passenger mile than the DC metro and also uses less energy, assuming they can automate and eliminate the driver from the EV. so, what is the advantage of a train if it is slower, costs more, and uses more energy? trains are incredibly cost effective and incredibly efficient when they're full, but when ridership isn't high, it is a crap service. a city could run buses, but buses have to deal with all of the slowdowns of surface streets, whereas PRT/Loop can be grade-separated so you can go straight to your destination without being stuck in traffic, stopping at lights, or needing parking when you get to the destination.
you have the exactly correct take on the issue. everyone assume that capacity is everything, but my local light rail moves fewer people than the Morgantown PRT but is a much bigger city, has much lower frequency, and overall worse service.
not all corridors need high capacity
@@somedude-lc5dy I understand completely what the OP is saying. With Skytrain and other automated light metro systems (like in Copenhagen) you can run much shorter train consists (e.g. on the Canada Line the trains are 40 meters long with 5 minute or less headways). If the line is successful, you can add larger trains (which is what happened on the Expo and Millennium lines). The marginal cost of dispatching another train is negligible because there's no driver associated with it and you can surge dispatching more trains when you need to (like during a conference or when there is a sportsball game). The other benefit to shorter trains is that you don't have to build giant stations, so it ends up being far cheaper to build. The Canada Line was about $1.5 billion USD for a 12 mile stretch of track including 15 stations and tunneling for about half the line (with both bored tunnel and cut and cover).
The problem I think is that a lot of the Tesla fanboys don't realize that this kind of infrastructure already exists outside of the US. It's amazingly efficient and doesn't have high maintenance costs from replacing things like rubber tires and cars which get worn out because they're not not designed for this kind of service. It's also the reason why places like Vancouver have extremely high transit ridership compared to US cities.
That loop would probably move more people if they just ditch the teslas and have people use electric scooters.
I think everyone is missing the purpose here. This loop idea is an amenity, for convention attendees and later, people going from one hotel to another. No one would call the existing people movers on the strip mass transit. The monorail can be, but its in a sub-optimal location. The traffic engineers and resort operators are not stupid people. They know what mass transit is. They have chosen to do something different.
Another point is the resorts don't want to make it easy for you to leave their property. The existing people movers are free but only go to other properties owned by the same company.
all of these problems even before thinking of the small problem of what the hell do you do if there's an accident. How do you get out? How will they take the veihicle out, since the tunnel is too small for a tow truck. Can the people escape without being at risk of being run over by the cars going in there. All of these and more need to be awnsered for this to even be a gimmick and not a danger to everyone involved
The LVCC Loop has a tow vehicle (also a Tesla) to quickly and easily extract broken-down cars. The 29 mile 51 station Vegas Loop will have multiple such tow vehicles.
If for some reason, an EV can’t simply be towed. Loop EVs could easily bypass the disabled vehicle by going down one of the many parallel tunnels and mini-loops in the 29 mile 51 station Loop, or if the incident is between the exit and entry spur tunnels to a station, traffic could divert through the station.
But unlike a thousand passengers crammed in a burning train, there are only 2-3 people to evacuate from a Loop EV and they simply get out and jump into the EV that’s stopped just behind them in the tunnel while the tunnel’s high capacity smoke exhaust fans blow any smoke away in the opposite direction.
And the Teslas have huge HEPA filters and carbon activated filters running on re-circulate creating positive pressure in “Bio-weapons defense” mode to keep all toxic gases out for the few minutes it takes for the EV to drive to the nearest station.
Much safer than a thousand passengers trying to get out of that burning train and then having to walk thousands of feet to a narrow escape tunnel and stairs/ladders to get out.
One thing that can improve the Vegas Loop is to simply change the vehicles used. For example, at Calgary's YYC airport, there are little shuttle buses that transport passengers across the terminal similar to golf carts found in other airports except that they have higher capacity, up to a dozen people I think, level boarding, room for luggage, accessible for people with physical disabilities, and a dedicated lane so that it doesn't have to contend with people walking in the way. Something like the trams found in Disneyland that transport people from the parking structure to the parks would be even better as they act like trains! Of course, nothing can beat and actually train, but I can't help but feel concerned as the tunnels for the Vegas Loop are WAY too narrow, heck I don't think you can even open the doors of the Tesla cars. But the Elon Musk cultist will just attack anyone who dares to question their supreme leader. At the very least, there are some ideas on how we can convert the Vegas Loop into something more useful when it fails if it isn't destroyed in a car battery fire.
Great video, as always. Would you ever considering doing a video on “the best” implemented interchanges in America?
This is what happens when someone with way too much money comes up with an idea which is not well thought-out, and no one around them can tell them, "No".