The only thing this game needs to be perfect is NG+ allow me to keep those bond rings donations and skills I wanna see how much certain skills and rings can break maddening like in 3H
I mean the extra content in wave 4 might just give us that- the only thing that will make this game perfect is to make the final boss theme and actual final boss theme... I will remain pissed at it until I die
Oh the final boss is alear not sombron that's why last engage plays instead. Also please let's us use boss themes for skirmishes and trials I love enforcer of knowledge
yes. also yeah I can never forgive whoever made fire emblem engage for the final boss theme. I do not understand how people actually enjoy it, everyone who says that it's supposed to show alear's character growth... okay that's ridiculous lmao, but even then, that would be say end credits theme... not the music of the guy who will destroy universes if you fail... idk man last engage just hurts me personally
I don't normally change Chloe until around chapter ~22 to martial master. And make sure to give her an engrave on flashing first art for avoid and crit. Normally brings her crit rate at end chapters to about 23% on all enemies and with 4x hits she'll most likely crit at least once. She normally one rounds all mages, archers and sometimes wolf knights without taking any damage and if you use alear engage on her she can use his fist art to one round armored enemies with low res
@@Shipiiiwp yeah I kept Chloe on Griffin knight until a few chapters after you get Eirika, then switched her over. There's probably an optimal time to do it, but I don't know when that would be. Also it was random Maddening growths so maybe I just got lucky but I had great results with MM Chloe in the last ~1/4 of the game Edit: As an addendum, although I had DLC, she never had Tiki or anything to mess with her growths / statboosters
using a really similar team to you and for me personally, chloe was actually really good but only with eirika, she becomes a glass cannon with healing/bond shielding capabilities
Martial masters kinda need Erika’s ring with flashing fist to deal a ton of damage by abusing the lunar brace skill with the brave effect of fist weapons. Though watching this makes me want to do a randomiser where when I get units I use a random number generator to decide what class each unit will go and see if I can make it work.
They also aren’t really meant to do damage I think people just try to do it cause fist were so good in 3H. Chain guarding is great and lucina bonded shield is 100% on qi adepts and also staffs are the most useful they’ve been in the 3D era imo. Great support class only really use them to punch mages or archers if they’re near by
@@noathern my jade is also martial but ya the class in general is so bad it’s not working and her hp is so low. The fact ur a healer class that needs to be melee range to atk is dum it means ur in enemy range more often
7:32 HOLY MOLY. You're right. This outfit really looks amazing on Ivy. (My favourite character btw) It fits her body well, and the colours on the cape are beautiful. The weird thing on her head is still there, which i like. I'm not a fan of the suuuper long dress she wears normally. But i'm not gonna switch off her normal class. Lindwurm class + this outfit would be perfection though. It's a shame we can't change battle outfits at all. Not just Ivy, on a lot of characters i'd prefer a different outfit. Non promoted Louis' armor looks way better than the promoted one. Same with Alear, also prefer the non promoted version. :/
Should do a run where you put units on their worst possible class, use boosters and dlc and w/e else, and try to make them work. I say this because sage Louis would be hilarious
I really don't understand why people consistently misunderstand Martial Master so hard. Let's just do maths : Chloé (who isn't the best unit as a Martial Master, Merrin/Rosado are a bit better than her cause of their base stats) at internal level 30 (10 in her base class, and 20 in her advance one) got : - as a Griffin Knight : 18DMG/31SPD/7BLD. - as a Martial Master : 18DMG/22SPD/8BLD. Martial Master take (STR+MAG)/2 for damage calculation, so she got 18 as her "damage" stat from 17STR and 19MAG. If you give her a Flashing Fist Art (and you should if you want to test her as a Martial Master) you instantly gain +5 speed and the ability to quad, so she go from 22SPD to 27SPD. Now the important part : Flashing Fist vs Brave Lance. Flashing Fist got +4 base damage (9 vs 5), -5 base WT (9 vs 14). And Flashing Fist is way cheaper to upgrade : in raw cost, a Brave Lance +0 to +5 cost around 185000 (if you value silver at 5k, steel at 500 and iron at 50). a Flashing Fist +0 to +5 cost 65000. In maddening, ressource are important. Being able to have a cheap efficient weapon is a must have. If you're more realistic, Brave Lance +3 cost 53500, Flashing Fist +3 cost 14500. So when you play Martial Master, you can either go with a really low investement (14500 for a +3 weapon is dirt cheap), or go for a budget full upgrade weapon and still got plenty of ressources for your others unit's builds. And if you play Griffin Knight, you have to find a way to increase your build or you gonna have to give up the Brave Lance and really tank your damage output (7 build to hold a 14WT weapon ...). When you take all of this in consideration, let's redo the maths at internal level 30 : - Griffin Knight with Brave Lance : 18+5DMG, 31SPD, 7BLD for a 14WT weapon. - Martial Master with Flashing Fist : 18+9DMG, 27SPD, 8BLD for a 9WT weapon. Weapon is cheaper to upgrade, so no reason to not go at least +3 or +5, so the difference might actually be higher for damages. So except if you find a way to make Brave Lance way lighter, Martial Master got in fact more damages, on pair or more speed, and cost you less ressources. Of course you could argue that Chloe as a Griffin Knight don't need a Brave Lance, but you will not consistently ORKO with something else because she can't get 100% crit chance and you will get RNG screw on a crit build. You could also give her +5BLD to handle the Brave Lance, but that's a skill slot, when as a Martial Master you could take Alacrity++ and SPD+5/Speedtaker, and now Martial Master got more speed and hit first. I'm not going to talk about Emblem, but Eirika fit Martial Master very well and let them ORKO almost anything, even high DEF foes (but this could work with anyone who can quad, Martial Master at least got use of the MAG that Eirika give). So, is Martial Master "better" than Griffin Knight ? No, Griffin Knight still a flier with +1 move, and mobility is king in this game. Is Martial Master a "good" class ? No, this class got bad growth rate and an useless passive. Is Flashing Fist Art the most underrated weapon in the game, one of the most broken weapon, and instantly bump Martial Master from D tier to A ? God yes, you got a unit as strong as any Hero/Griffin/Wyvern Brave weapon build, but cheaper. And you can use staves, and chain guard if needed. So no, you don't need DLC ressources, or a lower difficulty to make this work. You just need the right weapon. I don't want to be toxic or offend you, but when i see your Chloe with a Silver-Spirit Art, i just think you didn't understood how to make the most out of Arts. If you had played Griffin Knight Chloe with a Steel Greatlance the entire game, i'm pretty sure you would think she is C tier too. And i will still argue that Merrin is a bit over Chloe for this build, as she come latter into the game (and closer to the moment you will get Flashing Fist if you don't want to waste ressources upgrading for it, so she can be a chain guard/staves bot for chapter 14,15,16 and 17, and then become a real damage unit) and got better base for this build. I will finish this with a fun fact, this is Chloe's stats as a Sage at internal level 30 : 24.95MAG/24.55DEX/24.05SPD/7.15BLD. Against Anna, she got 3.75 less MAG for 2.50 more SPD and 0.5 more BLD. When you know that you got Kagetsu, Alear, Lapis, Fogado, Rosado, Goldmary, Yunaka, Alcryst, Timerra and so much others than can be really strong physical units, Chloe as a Sage is for me a nobrainer : there are only 3 decent "speed mage" in the game, and that's Chloe, Anna, and Pandreo.
Or you could just make chloe a mage knight and kill shit in 2 hits of magic, the class is bad and by the point you get to lvl 30 internally, any other class can 1 round stuff hitting only x2, meanwhile, you have a shitty class on a great unit that does nothing all the early/mid game, okay if you want to meme but in no way this is "high tier"
@@Pokeeko If you had read my entire post, you would see that i agree with you that she is better suit to be a mage. I think sage is just way better mage knight, but whatever. Also, keep in mind that Martial Master can generate infinite amount of XP with chain guard, so you can have your martial master at internal 30 when your entire team is still level 10 (will be tedious, tho). And i'm not sure what difficulty you play, but on maddening my units don't ORKO with only x2 (even Alear, Kagetsu and Lapis who are boosted with Starsphere, except on mage).
I wanna add another thing about Clanne and this also applies to Boucheron bc they perform similar things. You see, they have high spd & dex and as I've stressed about it, you want them to use killer weapons with crit engrave for damage, plus their support bonuses indicate that they're meant to be crit units. They'll always deal less base dmg on average, but then why do you need it as much when you can just double crit with them consistently? I do have thought of a plan b for Clanne. I'd say you can bench him and not give him kills early on until you get a 2nd seal to reclass him into a fighter and do Micaiah strats by then. Regardless of what promotion you put him on, he'll always have those high spd & dex growths, but I'd suggest turning him into a hero bc brave assist is always a good thing to have. Another thing to note that he has great support bonuses bc those further augments his crit and/or dodge tanking capabilities (Jean and Louis for crit, Hortensia and Fogado for avoid, Alear and Citrinne for balanced).
Speedtaker alacrity is a must if u wanna do dmg with martial monk erika’s ring will just make her melt things obviously but without it she 1 round sombron’s whole hp bar in maddening once she stacked 1 -2 speed and stood next to a engaged + alear for the weapon effectiveness but what do i know i am a martial monk simp
I would love to sure a run of just pure meme builds. Like phys units into sages or what I'd love to see is a "Making Vander Viable throughout the entire game" run would be really entertaining
I'm planning on doing a Vander supports only run after I finish my current save. I'm going to test whether or not Vander can be viable as a healer throughout the whole game with DLC. If it goes well, I may try it out without DLC. Even if he does end up being viable, I'll only have access to a few good units. I'll also have to bring Clanne along with me throughout the whole game. The only way he's going to be viable is if I reclass him into an axe fighter at level 1, so hopefully the next wave of DLC gives out a free second seal after chapter 4.
i haven't used dps martial master yet, but I think the key is the flashing fist art, upgrade from silver (+5 spd), prob good with celica ring cuz it gives str and mag
I immediately reclassed Amber to Berserker after my mediocre experience with Halberdier Amber for strength growth. I don't think Halberdier is bad, it's just I like Halberdier Panette WAY more than Halberdier Amber. I feel you on Martial Master Chloe. While she ticks a lot of boxes for min-maxing Martial Master, it feels lame giving up her flying flexibility and easy doubling by nature of Griffin Knight just having a lot more speed. On top of that, it's pretty much mandatory for her to use Flashing-Fist to get any results, cause the Martial Master Chloe build assumes quading to make the most use out of her passive. Since that's the case, she really can't take a lot of hits unless she's got Erika for Gentility and healing from Solar Brace. Martial Master Chloe is just very high effort and specific. That's why I always recommend Martial Master Jade over even Framme and Chloe. The main selling factor of Martial Master Jade is that she's an absolute tank as a Martial Master cause now she has a good Res growth and cap while having tools to fix Defense easily with the Shielding Art. My Jade can tank 45 damage from knives/bows and 46 damage from tomes. Most importantly, she can still leverage good tanking power WITHOUT AN EMBLEM RING. If you throw in either the S rank Ryoma or Xander bond rings for Bushido and Chivalry respectively, you get +2 bonuses to both damage and mitigation which are both very useful for Jade as a Martial Master. I'm going to experiment on Royal Knight Boucheron one day. I just think it's inevitable that's he's going to be weaker than most other characters due to his bad strength growth, so having some staff utility would be useful. While Boucheron literally has no magic growth for heal boosting, he does have the best build growth so he can carry the strongest lances without issue. The biggest reason is just that Boucheron has the highest health growth which will do well for curbing the 11 health demerit from recovering an ally from break status. I also think having an early Royal Knight is just an interesting concept since people generally don't worry about break later on in the game.
Martial Master class will only work with Eirika ring, even then its not that great but mid game it can delete any unit until the speed cap becomes a problem and it can't quad anymore. Eirika just makes brave weapons better and thats why Martial Master is good with it, but its still the worst brave weapon in the game.
Yeah it really bothers me how martial master has no spd growth. Arts seem to be like a lightweight, low dmg brave weapon, so doing quads at lower dmg seems to be the point. But the unit would then need high spd to be able to quad in the 1st place. I've made Jean in a martial master on maddening, and it only works bc of his natural 40% spd growth, plus I gave him Erika, 2 speedwings, and sometimes a spd tonic. Otherwise he'd be too weak late game.
You clearly like Chloé quite a bit, and I can tell by tone of voice it's painful for you to put her in Martial Master. Put her back where she belongs! One thing that annoys me is the schizophrenic nature of the outfits. One outfit for the Somniel, another for combat. Outfit change on class change. Another outfit for cutscenes. Game should have a dressing room where units can accumulate outfits (class change or whatever), then switch at will. So, if the character was ever in a class, they can wear that outfit across their play--in the Somniel, combat, and cutscenes. Otherwise, I'm spending money and resources to unlock outfits that the characters wear only at certain times, before they switch to another outfit outside my control.
Chloe is amazing. I ran her with Lyn and she was a mainstay of my strategy. Run her forward, create 4 copies, often her copies would dodge and counter crit and kill stuff by themselves. Only downside there is you don't get XP from copy kills. I remember a flying unit similar to Chloe being equally amazing back in like....Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones I remember having some flying unit that started off kinda weak then became almost invincible after a bit of leveling.
The big difference between Silver Spirit Art and Flashing Fist Art is actually that Flashing Fist Art is much, much cheaper to refine for some reason. Silver Spirit upgrades like a Silver weapon, but flashing Fist upgrades like a Steel weapon -- it doesn't take any silver ingots to upgrade until +3. Because it is a brave weapon whose upgrades cost like a steel weapon, you can add Mt to it way way before you ever have the resources to upgrade a brave weapon. I would actually recommend you use refining to turn the Steel Fist Art you get in Jade's recruitment chapter into Flashing Fist Art, then start upgrading it. Though, its only really good to have one martial master, and in my opinion Framme is the best option because she can get to level 20 early by chain guarding on a fort or with a renewal ring, and while her str/mag growths are slightly worse than Chloe, her speed is actually even better. Plus, the fact that she doesn't use a second seal early to switch into martial master helps her viability a lot, even if you don't like abusing chain guard for exp (which I personally do not). Flashing Fist Art's weight is 9, BUT because it gives speed + 5 it's weight is effectively 4, except that if you have extra build you get speed equal to the difference. Inheriting Marth's perception skill early can massively help, since its very cheap for sp and bond fragments, gives you avoid when attacking with FFA, and the avoid scales off speed, including the +5 speed you get from FFA. Before enemy phase, you can simply trade swap FFA out of the first slot of the martial Masters inventory and have them equip Shield Art for a +10 defensive swing. These tricks will give you a martial master that can carry you through the midgame, but basically no martial master is viable into the late game without inheriting Lunar Bracelet from Erika. Their utility then switches to being your A rank staff user and late game chain guard provider, both roles of which are still quite good to have 1 of. I don't believe martial Masters should actually be carrying the Erika ring themselves though, as a brave weapon user should be doing that. Roy or Celica are both decent options late game. Roy and Celica provides 1-2 range and resistance buffs (Roy via binding blade) when engaged, and are the only rings that gives Str and Mag. This will give the martial master a bit of combat utility as your team's resistance tank / mage slayer in the late game for stuff like baiting magic ballistas or chain guarding meteor sages as you advance on their position. For these reasons, I don't believe you should build more than 1 martial master in any team composition though. The only martial master that has the str/mag growth to get through enemies in the late game is Jean, and I believe Jean is better suited to other classes. Framme is the perfect confluence of available early, high speed, decent enough str/mag growths, able to level via staff exp on Vander for many chapters that she can be made a strong unit in the mid game. Combined with needing to refine a FFA, which you don't really want to do twice, and it means that exactly 1 good Martial Master can be built. By the time you get to the chapter you're on here, their combat potential will have already started to drop off.
Its not a big hindrance, you overthink the synergies imo. His passive has moments when he uses javelin or spear on someone. Halberdier canter amber is really good
Idea: Try using Chain Guard spam in the early game with Deirdre S bond ring (gives Renewal). You chain guard then instantly heal back all the damage you’d take from it with Renewal. This really allows you to manipulate the AI and allows Alear to absorb aggro very often without taking damage, leading to easy kill setups.
This strategy starts to fall off past the early game. Once your chain guarder hits 30 HP, the static 5 HP from Renewal no longer covers the 20% max HP you take from chain guarding, since it's bumped up to 6 damage and requires 2 turns to heal.
5:12 I’m no expert on her. But I think what they do is give her the Erika ring for the Lunar Brace effect and place her next to Alear and another unit to make use of both their personals for a bunch of true damage while quading.
everyone else has already said it, but the martial master build requires lunar brace (eg. eirika), otherwise it does nothing. I personally think Martial master is not a good idea on Chloe, considering how low the speed cap is, although one could argue the same thing for Mage Knight's low HP cap crippling Chloe's 75% hp growth, but it might not be a problem until you start hitting late game.
The reason why you take Martial master on Chloe is because of her +3 speed cap and +5 speed from flashing fist, on top of her natural strength and mag growths It makes Chloe the only unit who can run martial master and consistently quad - she can even quad the final boss with it
What it worked for me was to put chloe in mage knight and when she maxed hp i changer her back to Griffith with forged levin sword, she has been broken all the game and have a lot of flexibility in what emblem or skills to use, shitty MM needs Eirika, no option at all, dunno why ppl overhype it, if anything i feel there are other units that fit better that class than Chloe
I used Warrior Boucheron in my run, together with Lyn he was a one rounding monster, however it was a hard run, i've no idea how much maddening changes things i'm currently on chapt 5 on my first maddening run.
I have been liking Martial Master Chloe, but it really needs Flashing Fist Art and Eirika for good damage and consistent quading. Because of that, I left her in Griffin until you get both of those, which has the benefit of slightly boosting her speed by the time you swap over and makes her more usable until the build comes online. A damage emblem is really important for it though, and Eirika is the best one for it and also hotly contested. I’m not even sure who you’d use otherwise. Maybe Celica? And I’ve heard of people using Hector for Heavy Attack if you have dlc. It’s a fun build that does real good damage but being reliant on waiting for a specific weapon and a specific emblem are big downsides. Disclaimer: this has been on Maddening with some dlc, but I don’t think what I’ve been using from the dlc should drastically change how my Chloe performs. Its not like I gave her Tiki or Stasphere and I haven’t used the bonus stat boosters.
Halberdier panette with Sigurd has been working well for me. Can one round a lot of enemies (without pincer) using brave lance and the extra movement helps get her into position to quad when I need to melt down a boss. Lance power plus momentum plus brave lance has been quite strong for me
Martial master is definitely a meme. The reason mage night is okay at hybrid is it gives you a crazy passive to support it. MM gives you a bunch of homework to then get into a class with terrible growths and a just okay payoff. Still annoyed it ruined my first Jean
I used martial master Chloe in my most recent maddening run (no DLC), and she was a walking delete button. I used her pretty heavily as a griffin knight early on, so she might have been slightly overinvested in (though it seems like you favor that strategy with her on most of your runs anyway). I swapped her to Martial Master right after I got the Eirika ring, and gave her a forged Flashing Fist Art, I promise you that she goes super hard once she's set up. Having her in griffin knight until about chapter 19 meant that she was relevant for the entire run. Speed cap does kind of become an issue as she can hit 31 relatively early, but that gets increased to 36 with flashing fist art. You can run the speed+ skill or speedtaker from Lyn to push this even higher. She should quad most units until the end of the game. Also, do you have a discord server or anything like that? I've watched most of your videos since Engage came out and would love to talk about strategies and unit builds some time.
I have Jean as my swordmaster on maddening and tbh, I don't know if Swordmaster is a good class for maddening. I didn't use Kagetsu yet, but Jean's avoidance is so high, I usually have to equip a worse weapon than his main if I use him to pull and one round enemys because they ignore him with his main equipped. I don't know if Kagetsu is better or worse, but atm I fell like I've invested a little too much into Jean's weapon and build. But other than the being ignored because of too high avoid, he's banger.
Flashing Fist Art is good because of the cheap upgrade cost it is like a third or less of Silver/Brave weapons so fitting a MM in your team is cheap, but if you ask me Framme is probably the only viable MM
I think the Martial Master build is all based around using her Personal as well for more bonus damage on top of Alear but I haven’t run it personally so idk how good it is.
I did halberdier bros with kagetsu and Zelkov and it was amazing. Wyvern Lapis I also ran on another run and also phenomenal. Dire thunder Citrinne carried my early and mid game. I also tried martial master Chloe with the Eirika ring and she was great until late game ever her damage kinda fell off.
The MM Chloé build works by stacking a lot of true damage on her, with an engaged Eirika being the centerpiece. Get the quad in and the opponent is likely dead. The problem I have with this strat is that MM’s speed is really really bad and you have to patch it up with skills - flashing fist isn’t enough. I looked at the amount of BS you need to do to get this build to work… I just did the same thing but w/ brave Lance on wyvern Chloé. Still frequently gets the quads and high Eirika uptime, and now she has an actual speed stat.
I also ran Amber Halberdier all the way through my last maddening run. Halberdier is not nearly as good as people said. They do good damage against bosses but they have poor defense and often take a shitload of follow-up damage. They're weaker than other units in basically every non boss situation and tbh killing bosses isn't where most teams struggle anyway. Chloe should end up being good if you give her Flashing Fist Art + Erika but that's a pretty high opportunity cost for what ends up being just a good unit.
I can't get enough of Boucheron. Endgame I have him on Berzerker with Ike (Wrath) and Vantage+Speedtaker inheritables. He has over 90 HP and Tiki DLC give him a second health bar, he can solo an entire maddening map with a tomahawk. When his health is low on enemy phase he'll get in two tomahawks with 40% crit. And with Ike's engage special skill I can go in to a complete swarm of enemies, put on a silver greataxe, take half damage on enemy phase and then kill everything within 2 squares and recover all HP at the start of player phase, it's so satisfying. Overall Bouch is kind of a mediocre unit because of his bad starting stats but I like that about Fire Emblem, when you do a run you naturally and inevitably over-invest in certain units and they become broken way more than they should be.
I don't understand how people say boucheron is bad, I'm in maddening up to ch 17 and boucheron, Louis, Chloe and Alear are the cornerstones of my run. My boucheron is a warrior just like here and he does well, I forged him a +3 silver great axe engraved with the 40 avoid emblem gave him a strong arm bond ring with build +3 and perceptive inherited and he does well for me. Also gave him the longbow since it won't slow him down making him the highest strength archer I have. I'm currently waiting for his build to grow higher so I can swap build+3 for something else like vantage or wrath or maybe more avoid idk.
If you want to Martial Master Chloe to work in Maddening, you need important conditions to fullfill : 1- Erika as it adds true dmg on chloe. If you use anything else it will be trash. Magic from Erika is the only thing that helps a brave weapon in this game (Nova is trash, who cares + related to your brave weapon argument) 2- Reclass after chapter 17, which is when you get flashing fist art (+5 speed) 3- Build +3 or Speed +3 as flash fist art is high wt for her low build, this is pretty cheap 4- You need speed levels when on falcon knight since martial master reclass reduces your speed by quite a lot and also has 28 speed cap. So it's better to stay on it till you get flashing fist. 0 reason to change class before that. 5- Speedtaker late game, so you need to save
Your ideas are mighty fine, i think its more of an Stat problem. I noticed your chars have extremely low RES. Never had this low average around this chapter. Early Starsphere really adds up by the looks of it.. The power of dlc xd
Its sad that Martial Master has terrible speed caps. You can give MM good damage potential with Eirika, but in a world where Halberdier Brave Lance exists, Eirika on that simply outclasses MM completely.
@@happyhappy685 Yeah but it's expensive. Speed+3 and Speed+4 are cheaper, good enough to still double any enemy in the late game except MAYBE a Wolf Knight or Griffin, and you can spend the SP you save on Canter or Avoid. I recommend Avoid. My Martial Master Chloe could one round most enemies late game with Eirika due to Lunar Brace, and giving her some more Avoid made her a decent avoid tank.
Interesting, my MM Chloé is actually a beast, Im basicaly at the same point in the game as is this video. I will certainly not deny that the dlc helps, since I put Tiki ring on here, to boost the growths a bit, but I also let her get few levels as griffin knight, mainly because I did not have enough second seals and other units were priority. I dont use silver arts on her yet, right now she is equiped with steel arts +3 with camilla engrave and she crits like hell. I will probably skip the silver arts since I'll soon get the Flashing Fist. Also I love her MM outfit, certainly better than griffin knight outfit. :D
I know this video is "older" and I'm a bit late with this math, but Martial Master Chloé with Eirika ends up the same with the same doubling and damage potential as brave lance griffon knight Chloé. By the end game assuming that the martial Master Chloé doesn't switch until obtaining the flashing fist art. The advantage to Martial Master Chloé is that for about four chapters or so it does more damage. The disadvantage is that it loses flying and range. It's viable because as far as Chloé is concerned it works out about the same. You can do something similar with brave bow bow knight Chloé if you wanted for fun
Depending at what point the reclasses chloe, she might just be bad cause she level 15. Who would have thought that the two characters who are actually at the recomended level for the map would be functioning well. This is most evident on chloe since martial masters due to there weapon being low mt brave weapons with hybrid scaling, are significantly effect by being behind in levels. Effective Dps wise martial master chloe will have higher damage that a grphyon knight due to literally have more offesive growths. Main point is that like brave swords, art weapons are only good if the user has a high str/mag growth and is being given enough exp to be aligned with the curve. You did also identify that martial master is significantly stronger on dificulties below maddening due to how brave weapons interact with the increased defences on maddening. The reasoning for using erika on martial master would be that martial masters cannot use energy drops or magic dust to fix up their poor damage as their only has as effective on them as other units.
Mauvier,Jade,Yunaka and Celiné are the only people I'd say Martial master is like...ok on due to their mixed offenses actually not suffering TOO much in the class(hitting at least 45 growths in both offensive stats). And even then it's...just okay. If fists were magical it would be great(and arguably can be used with Byleth+Vajra Mushti on off-turns or with Eirika,but I feel like Eirika lends better in combination with a brave flier build). Slapping Lucina on a qi adept is also always nice...but it's also sort of giving up on their offense xd
I feel like Warrior Alcryst would be interesting but he won’t get Luna so you’d prob have to give him a crit build to make up for that. Might try that in my third run I’m starting soon.
in my experience, youll need to put something like a leif engrave on amber's lance early because without something to fix his hit he falls off. he generally has below average dex for some reason (prob because they expect him to use his personal skill which just isnt possible with harberdier pincers lol) tbh louis might actually be better as a harberdier just because of better dex (defenses are nice too) but im not sure if he needs more unit favoritism to be viable
I'm using him as a warrior in my second run which patches up his strength and still lets him double , he also has the advantage of being a backup who's able to equip longbows
he's pretty good on warrior, because he has very high speed when he joins and just needs strength (you gain 6 on reclassing). He might be the better Alcryst longterm, because if you give him lyn he can quad with brave axe early on while dealing massive dmg. And his magic is decent, so if you run into any armor knights you just use radiant bow. Alcryst in the midgame seems very luck dependant, and while he has a higher dmg output cealing with Luna, his base dmg is pretty bad.
If you keep him as a cupido give him the raidant bow and then eventually the Erika ring + a brave bow. After you do the Erika prologue and get bond level 18 around ch 19 he pops off and starts one rounding generals with a brave bow, as well as one shooting flyers with the raidant bow. He’s one of my strongest units, although it only works later in the game.
Not sure how you built Chloe, but for me what worked was going to Griffin Knight to level 10-15, before going into Martial Master. She was absolutely mental on my maddening run and could solo areas by herself with Flashing Fist + Eirika. Instead, I found the basic Griffin Knight Chloe to be rubbish since she has no damage at all.
Only way I've made Martial Master work is reclassing late game. Early mid game don't see the worth as I preferably have tons of Berserkers, Wyverns and Sages to give them phenomenal growths and then reclass into a different class with better Maximum stats later on.
Luner brace is one of the only non DLC skills that makes fist fighting really viable damage wise against the late game melee units unless you take advantage of other damage sources. Chloe personal skill and balance growths are the main reason why she is one of the best fist fighters but I do wish the speed cap was at least 30., That why Eirika ring and engraving are the best for martial master plus speed taker skill to make quading easier against some enemies. Weirdly enough the Ike ring also works really well with martial masters because they also have a good defense stats balance so they become all around tanky against all enemies and max wrath is easier to get with the flashing gauntlets. Plus luner brace works really well with great Aether if I remember correctly, this last line might be wrong and if so my bad it been awhile.
What I can guess the reason for fists is that they have the highest base damage with the lowest weight for a brave weapon. The special fist has effective weight 4 and you get speed for any refund build.
I'm a Lapis enthusiast and I can confirm that she pops off in wyvern and Warrior, her speed growth is soooo high she ends up with overkill speed and no strength on any other sword class
I remember when I thought Boucheron's Moved To Tears skill stacked with itself. Thought that would make him incredibly strong on a backup attack focused team. It... didn't work, obviously. I still beat the game, but Boucheron was a liability. Maybe he would have been better with Lunar Brace instead of Axe Power?
Personally I feel High priest scales better eith arts than martial Master on specific units since if they lean into magic, you have the option of using a tome but the average of 15 and 14 is balanced sure but not as good as a 13 and a 25. A lot of my art units have seen better progress on high priest specifically for the better magic. Jean also increases arts to B for high priest allowing silver use which helps
Martial master chloe is really more a late game switch if you feel her strength/magic fell off too much. Its a class to dump characters that aren't cutting it in other classes, like the opposite of halberdier. Halberdiers don't care too much about speed if you're setting up pincer attack so you dump all your low spd no crit physical units in that class. Martial Masters care almost only about speed (despite its low speed cap) to quad hit because lunar brace provides almost all the damage. So its where you dump Chloe, Lapis, Framme, Clanne, etc. if you feel their physical damage fell off too much as maddening enemy units scaled up.
I really think its the team thats bad and not most of these units trying some offbrand build. Doesn't seem like you've considered what to keep bog standard and low investment and like 2 or 3 to go all in on the meme builds. That and I don't know if your mission was to try so many unique builds/tests that you forgot to build a team core like having a good ratio of offense over defense. Might be wrong, but maybe consider 1 or 2 of these unit builds again with a better structured team of units you already know are going to get the job done. Glad Dire Thunder Citrinne is showing you how its done, though! I don't use Halberdier because I just assume its a weaker class than other Backup options, so based on your results I might have the right hunch there. Like at least Sword Master has insane speed growth and cap, so you can go Quads with Eirika and get actual results + breaks. Warrior is just a godly class if you've planned around a few Assist+ and/or Breaking. Shame bosses can't be broken but it'd be too easy. Obviously a Hero or 2 is great for Assist and a decent bruiser. And I've seen Maddening Chloe do some nasty Quad stuff on Eirika's paralogue before these DLC rings were out.
I'm surprised you misunderstood martial master Chloe so bad. Although there are actually a number of other decent candidates (clanne, framme, merrin, mauvier, fogado) Chloé biggest advantage is her personal stacking true damage. Boucheron still needs Marth, and a brave axe with an accuracy boost engrave, plus some addition power from either lunar brace, axe power+ or strength+. He's a late bloomer.
Would you say there are better classes than halberdier for Amber? If so, what would you reccomend? Also,triangle strategy got news yesterday, its going to get an update in the future
Personally i don't feel like halberdier pincer is difficult to set up at all. I have canter on a couple units so it's quite easy to just have a unit hit something then position behind something you wanna nuke. And for bosses you can't one round you're obviously gonna have them surrounded
I went griffon axe boucheron side by side with griffon lance chloe and they are about the same internal level and theyre basically the exact same unit but bouchie has no mag in exchange for more bld, def, and higher mt weapons he just needs an accuracy engrave or siggy's hit +15 and ur golden
chloe martial master needs eirika because you want to quad with lunar brace. shes the best for it because she has balanced growths as well as high speed, allowing her to quad everyone and dodge in between so she doesn't get one tapped.
Rosados base str of 7 is pretty low, if you want to use him his main upside is access to speedtaker. Then I’d recommend either wyvern or warrior to fix his str faster.
I've been trying to follow your guides for my own Maddening playthrough, and it's going well. I see you're using smash weapons on a few of your units, and that's one area I'm having trouble with on Maddening, I'm not sure when or how to deploy them except for engage attacks. How do you use them most effectively?
You can use a ranged weapon (like tomahawk or spear) to break an enemy then get a free smash weapon hit on them. Tanky, low speed units also like them since they can take a hit pretty well.
The only time I ever use heavy smash weapons is on enemy phase with Ike's Great Aether skill to maximize the damage and HP recovery from everything that comes within 2 squares
Every time I've done one of those annoying Miasma maps that make enemies super tanky while they stand in it, I've used Smash weapons to knock them out of those spots so I can actually kill them that turn. I don't like the Miasma. On my current playthrough, I have a Micaiah engraved Smash weapon on my Lapis, who inherited Marth's avoid boosting skills in the early-game. She has the option to slap enemies around for free on Player Phase if I want her to at the time, since they can't hit her. But yeah, just put them on characters who will take little to no damage so they don't need to worry about getting hit first. Smash enemies into walls or other enemies to inflict Break regardless of weapon type. Need an enemy off of that spot and you can't quite kill them? Smack them out of the way so you can do whatever plan you have in mind. The most frequent and practical uses for them are definitely gonna be hitting enemies for big damage on Enemy Phase and making your Engage Attacks hit as hard as possible. Slower, tanky units who likely aren't gonna double anyway lose nothing from having at least one on hand.
Martial Master is a bad class to level in since it has no Spd modifiers. If you want to use fist arts then generally they would stick to Griffin then transition to Martial Master with Eirika and a forged Flashing Fist art in the chapter 20s. I'm pretty sure it was a deliberate decision to make sure fist/arts users aren't too strong in this game, just like they kept Wolf Knight and Thief's strength modifiers low to prevent dagger users from breaking the game
The people that had success with martial Master Chloé built her correctly. You change class at ch17 once you get the speed fist art, and give her Eirika for 20+ true damage from the quad. Speed+ skill, speed taker if you have enough. With Martial Master she cant be broken and can break 4 weapon types Any chapter sooner than that it will feel really bad Though one could argue that griffin Chloé could do the same with a brave lance (well only breaking 2 weapon types to avoid counter attacks, and can be broken herself). Since the build is so specific it's more like a fun second playthrough thing rather than something I'd tell people to try first run
Have you tried flashing fist art instead of silver spirit art on Chloe? The speed loss from Griffin Knight -> Martial Master will be offset by the +5 speed from flashing fist and +1 bld from MM. That would bring her back to effectively Griffin Knight levels of speed. Downside is that you only get the +5 speed on player phase. Edit: oops didn't see the last half of the video lol
@@RenegadeVash Chloe has 18 base speed in the vid with 55% speed growth. MM has speed cap of 28 so she needs around 20 level ups to hit max speed cap. Which I think is possible to hit cap since this is chapter 17 but that would require her taking a lot of exp. AFAIK flashing fist +5 speed goes over speed cap
@@priestessii sure if you feed her and slap on speedtaker with speed bonus, but that applies to everyone. By the last map mid speed enemies like halberdiers have 30-33 spd which means you need 38 or more to quad them which is 10 over mm cap. Also without Erika they can only go after squishy targets which are even faster beside mages. If you like the unit run it but it is only effective as heavily invested Erika quader which you can do with any brave weapon
@@priestessii Kagetsu, Merrin, Fogado, Timerra, any Halberdier with strength to name a few that also get higher strength throughout your run. Or just run Panette and oneshot with only 2 hits and Erika. Even Framme is a better MM lategame, so there really is no reason to ruin Chloe with this build. Just use her on Wyvern Knight and she will snowball in the early game with no investment at all.
@@priestessii let's do some math shall we? If we lvl Framme up to lvl 6 she has 21,25 Hp, 5,5 Str, 8 Mag, 10,25 Dex, 10,25 Spd, 6,25 Def, 11 Res and 7,25 Lck. You can compare these stats with Chloes basestats and you'll see she has overall half a point more dmg, 5 less hp, 3 less speed but 3 more defences. (i put half a statpoint onto any starting stats, cause otherwise the game would give you no stat ups on your first lvl up, but it does, so it seems that that is the case for every unit). Now then Framme also has better growths in martial monk with a combined dmg growth of 90 compared to Chloes 75 and Framme already had higher combined base dmg but has 20 less speed growth, however Framme also has combined 20 more growths in defences, while losing out on Hp, but 1 Seraph robe fixes that easier than multiple talismans/Dracoshields. It is also better to not Master seal her, because Framm would lose 5 Mag growth, therefor it is fine that you don't invest into her at all in the early game and only let her heal/take last hits with alears divine blessing. Throughout your Run Framme will end up with slightly less speed but a lot more might than Chloe, and also more defences compared to Chloes HP. In my opinion, fixing speed is very easy with flashing fist plus Lyn shenanigans, while fixing dmg output requires forging and Master sealing early and using energy drops and these are limited in the early game. So yeah idk how you got that Framme was a worse Martial Master. Her speed cap also is only 1 lower than Chloes.
my suggestion is Ivy since enemies can't often take advantage of her range limitations. Alcryst for me constantly gets attacked by units that he can't counter attack, but Ivy can counter against anything except longbows and thunder mages, and thunder mages do very little dmg to her, whereas if you put her in the sights of a longbow you kinda deserve to die for it if a hit lands
I would say run Lyn on Ivy until you get Celica back, then have Ivy wear that and siwtch Lyn to Alcryst. I did that on my last run and it worked well. I recommend having Ivy inherit Speedtaker, Speed+ and/or Alacrity when you switch Lyn off though.
Nah, the point of Martial Master Chloe is to throw Eirika Emblem on her, or just have her inherit Lunar Brace. The idea is to have Lunar brace proc on as many hits as possible, i.e. Fists or Brave weapons. Maddening foes have fairly high defense, so the buff is non-trivial, and I'm pretty sure the bonus damage is just pure-damage, so it cuts through a lot of different types of opponents fairly effectively. The downsides are lack of range and mobility, and the fact that the class itself is somewhat frail, but, as a glass cannon, it's pretty solid. Should try it out that way to salvage this run, lol.
Lyn ring is best for high strength and low speed users like Panette and Amber best use cases for Lyn Ring for her ultimate move, speedtaker, and ring stats giving dex and speed. Next runners up for Lyn ring is Louis and Etie. The best users for the Lucina ring are dagger holders, preferably wolf knight because of the extra movement = more range for dual assist to reach, because daggers from a chain attack still apply poison stacks = the entire team does more damage. ___________ From my Maddening run S tier rings are: Corrin Lyn Lucina Sigurd (only for Canter) A tier rings are: Tiki (one unit gets slightly better growths, aka slap this on Jean, and Tiki on a general gets ice breath which freezes units in place for a basic engaged attack and provides AoE damage) Soren (C tier for normal/hard, S tier for Maddening to force maddening AI to attack 0% hit / 0 damage units) Leif (because it provides a lot of build for a low build unit) Roy (allows for a glass cannon to not die, +5 levels of stats while engaged, and provides area fire if you need it) B tier ring to mention: Three Houses (it is just kind of a single target nuke ultimate like Leif and the ability to act twice, but the first act with a smash axe, can be useful, but Celica can act twice as well and multiple times per engage, ring stats are decent as well) Camilla (good for Seadall because the engage effect is +2 movement and makes him act like he is flying, and the Qi Adept effect for dragon veins is the only thing different to Corrin which is ice field for +2 movement to up to 3 allies) (her engrave is also 30% crit too, but a worse version of what Corrin gives unless you stick it on a glass cannon) F tier rings are: Ike Hector (though Hector can be pretty good for only Timerra)
What is this ring tier list based on Camilla F Hector F is some wild af take especially if using dragon Alear on Camilla for other dragon veins or AOE nuking, three houses in B when gives strength Dex defense lets you use aoe poison not take damage from range or burn tiles is wild not to mention + attack buff and letting non archers have a powerful bow or spear for 4 turns and having the ability to go multiple times a turn, Ike being that low with strength bonus you get and a lot of extra bulk without any real cost is insane, Leif being higher than Ike is really funny considering Ike provides all that bulk and units shouldn't have as many bld issues unless ruining bad units. Dagger Lucina isn't that good unless on bosses units should be able to one turn majority of enemies and Lucina better on fliers due to fliers being better with bonded shield which is way more offensive, Tiki A when Starsphere + AoE + Revive + 5 stats in everything + buffing party defenses + free heal standing still + if near marth can restore engage meter late game idk what this tier list is based on when majority of it seems off from an outside point of view
Also Soren can tank hits entire time and never die off them if double on enemy phase, + debuff enemies + 9 area nuke if near Ike + Bolting and hexcalibur added onto his marking is easy S
i feel the only 'good' offensive martial master is mauvier, just an extra guy who throw around obstructs and can one round beast units on lowish investment has been worth my while
Martial masters will be bad until you get flashing fist art scroll and boost it to as high as you possibly can, leveling it doesn't take as much resources as other weapons and you want marth or leif engraving on it. Basically you want to take advantage of the inherit doubling from the scroll, the +5 speed on flashing fist to not fall behind and to quad hit, and positioning you want them to be near Alear to deal as much dmg as possible otherwise martial masters will just be relegated to healing duty.
So you are having accuracy problems with a character whose personal skill gives him +20 Hit, but the condition to get that +20 Hit gets nullified if you meet the condition for Halberdier's Pincer Attack to proc. I want to give Amber a try, but I don't think that makes any sense to make him Halberdier.
I don't appreciate this MM Chloe slander lol. My Martial Master Chloe has been such an MVP in my Maddening no DLC run which can one round pretty much anything. You can't just pop her into MM and expect her to do crazy things right away especially on a Lucina ring... IMO flashing fist art quad build is the way to go with Corrin engraving and Erika Ring. Chloe's passive is what makes her better in this role compared to others. I recommend keeping Chloe in Griffin Knight for the speed growths until Ch.17 where you get her best weapon, then class change her for best results. Skills I like are Perceptive from Marth you can get early game and Speed taker from Lyn to help quads are her avoid. SP totals is like 2250 which is very easily doable.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Less investment... Sure, but I highly doubt it would outperform by much if at all. The investment is 2250 SP, Erika Ring, upgrade Flashing Fist Art, and a second seal after Ch.17. I doubt Wyvern/Griffin can one round story bosses/corrupted wyrms/armors/great knights/etc in the late game like the MM can. It's not even that much more investment and it gives a good use to the flashing fist art (which also isn't even expensive to upgrade in comparison to other higher grade weapons). Then you can just make someone else a Wyvern/Griffin on your team to fulfill that team slot if you want since its so easy for anyone to be good at it. Yeah, vanilla MM on anyone is gonna be bad and would have to be delegated to a support role (i.e. Lucina) without proper investment unlike other classes that are easy to use and good right off the bat. Give this a method of using MM Chloe with Erika ring a shot, I promise it won't disappoint!
Rosado and Chloe are far better as fliers here (Might be biased because I always run Rosado and prefer his performance on fliers), Jean kind of want as combat but imo with the amount of good physical units you get prob better as a mage but Anna better investment as a pupil, Amber looks like could possibly be good but I think would be more funny to run Louis Halberdier since similar growths but bulkier. Rosado speed is good enough to double just need killer axe Lyn engraving for weight reduction upgraded if can a bit until Griffin Knight
Martial Master is honestly just a bad class because of the math on fist weapons. I wanted to see if I could make it decent and did a DLC run put tiki on jean for 30 levels and fed him to hell where hes like 26/32 str/magic with the flashing fist weapon alacrity and +5 speed skill and hes still struggling to quad and even when he does he often doesn't kill without erika active. Unlike other brave weapons you cant boost damage of fists with X power and because it's (magic+str)/2 you have to have 50+ growth in both to make it just keep up with any other weapon type.. It's just so bad mathematically.
It sounds like you wanted to try out a bunch of stuff that you weren't sure would be viable or not and a bunch of it turned out to be terrible. Mission failed successfully?
Moment of silence for the amount of second seals used in this playthrough 😂 🙏🏻
"Weird things" - Warrior Boucheron
Well; uh; I guess using Boucheron at all is weird.
The only thing this game needs to be perfect is NG+ allow me to keep those bond rings donations and skills I wanna see how much certain skills and rings can break maddening like in 3H
I mean the extra content in wave 4 might just give us that-
the only thing that will make this game perfect is to make the final boss theme and actual final boss theme... I will remain pissed at it until I die
Oh the final boss is alear not sombron that's why last engage plays instead.
Also please let's us use boss themes for skirmishes and trials I love enforcer of knowledge
yes.
also yeah I can never forgive whoever made fire emblem engage for the final boss theme. I do not understand how people actually enjoy it, everyone who says that it's supposed to show alear's character growth... okay that's ridiculous lmao, but even then, that would be say end credits theme... not the music of the guy who will destroy universes if you fail... idk man last engage just hurts me personally
@@meinman7591 last engage is not great, defective is amazing though
yes
I don't normally change Chloe until around chapter ~22 to martial master. And make sure to give her an engrave on flashing first art for avoid and crit. Normally brings her crit rate at end chapters to about 23% on all enemies and with 4x hits she'll most likely crit at least once. She normally one rounds all mages, archers and sometimes wolf knights without taking any damage and if you use alear engage on her she can use his fist art to one round armored enemies with low res
what class do u have her promoted in for the 22 chapters then? im guessing griff for the speed and magic
Also it’s better to run Erika on her for martial master. She’s a lot better that way
@@Shipiiiwp yeah I kept Chloe on Griffin knight until a few chapters after you get Eirika, then switched her over. There's probably an optimal time to do it, but I don't know when that would be. Also it was random Maddening growths so maybe I just got lucky but I had great results with MM Chloe in the last ~1/4 of the game
Edit: As an addendum, although I had DLC, she never had Tiki or anything to mess with her growths / statboosters
@@ayj1085 oh okie, I rly need to try that, I normally just make her a mage knight with levin sword and Excalibur, super fun
She's awful as martial master bro
Just finished my 2nd maddening run. Thank you for the timerra warp guide for chapter 25 saves me a lot of pain vs my first run
using a really similar team to you and for me personally, chloe was actually really good but only with eirika, she becomes a glass cannon with healing/bond shielding capabilities
Martial masters kinda need Erika’s ring with flashing fist to deal a ton of damage by abusing the lunar brace skill with the brave effect of fist weapons. Though watching this makes me want to do a randomiser where when I get units I use a random number generator to decide what class each unit will go and see if I can make it work.
Was going to do this with random growths too
I did this Mauvier and suddenly he was my best unit lol. It’s such a busted build
They also aren’t really meant to do damage I think people just try to do it cause fist were so good in 3H. Chain guarding is great and lucina bonded shield is 100% on qi adepts and also staffs are the most useful they’ve been in the 3D era imo. Great support class only really use them to punch mages or archers if they’re near by
I am doing this with my jade currently cause of the potential with her mixed growths
@@noathern my jade is also martial but ya the class in general is so bad it’s not working and her hp is so low. The fact ur a healer class that needs to be melee range to atk is dum it means ur in enemy range more often
7:32 HOLY MOLY. You're right. This outfit really looks amazing on Ivy. (My favourite character btw)
It fits her body well, and the colours on the cape are beautiful.
The weird thing on her head is still there, which i like. I'm not a fan of the suuuper long dress she wears normally. But i'm not gonna switch off her normal class. Lindwurm class + this outfit would be perfection though.
It's a shame we can't change battle outfits at all. Not just Ivy, on a lot of characters i'd prefer a different outfit.
Non promoted Louis' armor looks way better than the promoted one.
Same with Alear, also prefer the non promoted version. :/
Should do a run where you put units on their worst possible class, use boosters and dlc and w/e else, and try to make them work.
I say this because sage Louis would be hilarious
I really don't understand why people consistently misunderstand Martial Master so hard. Let's just do maths :
Chloé (who isn't the best unit as a Martial Master, Merrin/Rosado are a bit better than her cause of their base stats) at internal level 30 (10 in her base class, and 20 in her advance one) got :
- as a Griffin Knight : 18DMG/31SPD/7BLD.
- as a Martial Master : 18DMG/22SPD/8BLD. Martial Master take (STR+MAG)/2 for damage calculation, so she got 18 as her "damage" stat from 17STR and 19MAG.
If you give her a Flashing Fist Art (and you should if you want to test her as a Martial Master) you instantly gain +5 speed and the ability to quad, so she go from 22SPD to 27SPD.
Now the important part : Flashing Fist vs Brave Lance. Flashing Fist got +4 base damage (9 vs 5), -5 base WT (9 vs 14). And Flashing Fist is way cheaper to upgrade : in raw cost, a Brave Lance +0 to +5 cost around 185000 (if you value silver at 5k, steel at 500 and iron at 50). a Flashing Fist +0 to +5 cost 65000. In maddening, ressource are important. Being able to have a cheap efficient weapon is a must have. If you're more realistic, Brave Lance +3 cost 53500, Flashing Fist +3 cost 14500. So when you play Martial Master, you can either go with a really low investement (14500 for a +3 weapon is dirt cheap), or go for a budget full upgrade weapon and still got plenty of ressources for your others unit's builds. And if you play Griffin Knight, you have to find a way to increase your build or you gonna have to give up the Brave Lance and really tank your damage output (7 build to hold a 14WT weapon ...).
When you take all of this in consideration, let's redo the maths at internal level 30 :
- Griffin Knight with Brave Lance : 18+5DMG, 31SPD, 7BLD for a 14WT weapon.
- Martial Master with Flashing Fist : 18+9DMG, 27SPD, 8BLD for a 9WT weapon. Weapon is cheaper to upgrade, so no reason to not go at least +3 or +5, so the difference might actually be higher for damages.
So except if you find a way to make Brave Lance way lighter, Martial Master got in fact more damages, on pair or more speed, and cost you less ressources. Of course you could argue that Chloe as a Griffin Knight don't need a Brave Lance, but you will not consistently ORKO with something else because she can't get 100% crit chance and you will get RNG screw on a crit build.
You could also give her +5BLD to handle the Brave Lance, but that's a skill slot, when as a Martial Master you could take Alacrity++ and SPD+5/Speedtaker, and now Martial Master got more speed and hit first. I'm not going to talk about Emblem, but Eirika fit Martial Master very well and let them ORKO almost anything, even high DEF foes (but this could work with anyone who can quad, Martial Master at least got use of the MAG that Eirika give).
So, is Martial Master "better" than Griffin Knight ? No, Griffin Knight still a flier with +1 move, and mobility is king in this game. Is Martial Master a "good" class ? No, this class got bad growth rate and an useless passive. Is Flashing Fist Art the most underrated weapon in the game, one of the most broken weapon, and instantly bump Martial Master from D tier to A ? God yes, you got a unit as strong as any Hero/Griffin/Wyvern Brave weapon build, but cheaper. And you can use staves, and chain guard if needed.
So no, you don't need DLC ressources, or a lower difficulty to make this work. You just need the right weapon. I don't want to be toxic or offend you, but when i see your Chloe with a Silver-Spirit Art, i just think you didn't understood how to make the most out of Arts. If you had played Griffin Knight Chloe with a Steel Greatlance the entire game, i'm pretty sure you would think she is C tier too.
And i will still argue that Merrin is a bit over Chloe for this build, as she come latter into the game (and closer to the moment you will get Flashing Fist if you don't want to waste ressources upgrading for it, so she can be a chain guard/staves bot for chapter 14,15,16 and 17, and then become a real damage unit) and got better base for this build.
I will finish this with a fun fact, this is Chloe's stats as a Sage at internal level 30 : 24.95MAG/24.55DEX/24.05SPD/7.15BLD. Against Anna, she got 3.75 less MAG for 2.50 more SPD and 0.5 more BLD.
When you know that you got Kagetsu, Alear, Lapis, Fogado, Rosado, Goldmary, Yunaka, Alcryst, Timerra and so much others than can be really strong physical units, Chloe as a Sage is for me a nobrainer : there are only 3 decent "speed mage" in the game, and that's Chloe, Anna, and Pandreo.
This guy knows the cheat code
Or you could just make chloe a mage knight and kill shit in 2 hits of magic, the class is bad and by the point you get to lvl 30 internally, any other class can 1 round stuff hitting only x2, meanwhile, you have a shitty class on a great unit that does nothing all the early/mid game, okay if you want to meme but in no way this is "high tier"
@@Pokeeko If you had read my entire post, you would see that i agree with you that she is better suit to be a mage. I think sage is just way better mage knight, but whatever.
Also, keep in mind that Martial Master can generate infinite amount of XP with chain guard, so you can have your martial master at internal 30 when your entire team is still level 10 (will be tedious, tho). And i'm not sure what difficulty you play, but on maddening my units don't ORKO with only x2 (even Alear, Kagetsu and Lapis who are boosted with Starsphere, except on mage).
I wanna add another thing about Clanne and this also applies to Boucheron bc they perform similar things. You see, they have high spd & dex and as I've stressed about it, you want them to use killer weapons with crit engrave for damage, plus their support bonuses indicate that they're meant to be crit units. They'll always deal less base dmg on average, but then why do you need it as much when you can just double crit with them consistently?
I do have thought of a plan b for Clanne. I'd say you can bench him and not give him kills early on until you get a 2nd seal to reclass him into a fighter and do Micaiah strats by then. Regardless of what promotion you put him on, he'll always have those high spd & dex growths, but I'd suggest turning him into a hero bc brave assist is always a good thing to have. Another thing to note that he has great support bonuses bc those further augments his crit and/or dodge tanking capabilities (Jean and Louis for crit, Hortensia and Fogado for avoid, Alear and Citrinne for balanced).
Poor Chloe. She disappointed coffee so much he actually called you bad.
Coffee is disappointed in himself.
Speedtaker alacrity is a must if u wanna do dmg with martial monk erika’s ring will just make her melt things obviously but without it she 1 round sombron’s whole hp bar in maddening once she stacked 1 -2 speed and stood next to a engaged + alear for the weapon effectiveness but what do i know i am a martial monk simp
Poor Bencheron ☹
using marshal master is the secret maddening+ difficulty
Vander marshal master
or alfred
I would love to sure a run of just pure meme builds. Like phys units into sages or what I'd love to see is a "Making Vander Viable throughout the entire game" run would be really entertaining
Even Joe Biden couldn’t make Vandar cook
I think secondsealing Vander into armor knight and then abusing great sacrifice's effect with armor type is the only way.
I'm planning on doing a Vander supports only run after I finish my current save. I'm going to test whether or not Vander can be viable as a healer throughout the whole game with DLC. If it goes well, I may try it out without DLC. Even if he does end up being viable, I'll only have access to a few good units. I'll also have to bring Clanne along with me throughout the whole game. The only way he's going to be viable is if I reclass him into an axe fighter at level 1, so hopefully the next wave of DLC gives out a free second seal after chapter 4.
Ivy looks sick as hell as a General
i haven't used dps martial master yet, but I think the key is the flashing fist art, upgrade from silver (+5 spd), prob good with celica ring cuz it gives str and mag
I immediately reclassed Amber to Berserker after my mediocre experience with Halberdier Amber for strength growth. I don't think Halberdier is bad, it's just I like Halberdier Panette WAY more than Halberdier Amber.
I feel you on Martial Master Chloe. While she ticks a lot of boxes for min-maxing Martial Master, it feels lame giving up her flying flexibility and easy doubling by nature of Griffin Knight just having a lot more speed. On top of that, it's pretty much mandatory for her to use Flashing-Fist to get any results, cause the Martial Master Chloe build assumes quading to make the most use out of her passive. Since that's the case, she really can't take a lot of hits unless she's got Erika for Gentility and healing from Solar Brace.
Martial Master Chloe is just very high effort and specific. That's why I always recommend Martial Master Jade over even Framme and Chloe. The main selling factor of Martial Master Jade is that she's an absolute tank as a Martial Master cause now she has a good Res growth and cap while having tools to fix Defense easily with the Shielding Art. My Jade can tank 45 damage from knives/bows and 46 damage from tomes. Most importantly, she can still leverage good tanking power WITHOUT AN EMBLEM RING. If you throw in either the S rank Ryoma or Xander bond rings for Bushido and Chivalry respectively, you get +2 bonuses to both damage and mitigation which are both very useful for Jade as a Martial Master.
I'm going to experiment on Royal Knight Boucheron one day. I just think it's inevitable that's he's going to be weaker than most other characters due to his bad strength growth, so having some staff utility would be useful. While Boucheron literally has no magic growth for heal boosting, he does have the best build growth so he can carry the strongest lances without issue. The biggest reason is just that Boucheron has the highest health growth which will do well for curbing the 11 health demerit from recovering an ally from break status. I also think having an early Royal Knight is just an interesting concept since people generally don't worry about break later on in the game.
Martial Master class will only work with Eirika ring, even then its not that great but mid game it can delete any unit until the speed cap becomes a problem and it can't quad anymore. Eirika just makes brave weapons better and thats why Martial Master is good with it, but its still the worst brave weapon in the game.
Yeah it really bothers me how martial master has no spd growth. Arts seem to be like a lightweight, low dmg brave weapon, so doing quads at lower dmg seems to be the point. But the unit would then need high spd to be able to quad in the 1st place. I've made Jean in a martial master on maddening, and it only works bc of his natural 40% spd growth, plus I gave him Erika, 2 speedwings, and sometimes a spd tonic. Otherwise he'd be too weak late game.
Speedtaker helps you quad things for longer, haven't taken the build to the last few maps yet though.
You clearly like Chloé quite a bit, and I can tell by tone of voice it's painful for you to put her in Martial Master. Put her back where she belongs!
One thing that annoys me is the schizophrenic nature of the outfits. One outfit for the Somniel, another for combat. Outfit change on class change. Another outfit for cutscenes.
Game should have a dressing room where units can accumulate outfits (class change or whatever), then switch at will. So, if the character was ever in a class, they can wear that outfit across their play--in the Somniel, combat, and cutscenes.
Otherwise, I'm spending money and resources to unlock outfits that the characters wear only at certain times, before they switch to another outfit outside my control.
They probably release a free update for that, just like they did with three houses.
Chloe is amazing. I ran her with Lyn and she was a mainstay of my strategy. Run her forward, create 4 copies, often her copies would dodge and counter crit and kill stuff by themselves. Only downside there is you don't get XP from copy kills. I remember a flying unit similar to Chloe being equally amazing back in like....Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones I remember having some flying unit that started off kinda weak then became almost invincible after a bit of leveling.
Citrinne Dire Thunder is fun.
The big difference between Silver Spirit Art and Flashing Fist Art is actually that Flashing Fist Art is much, much cheaper to refine for some reason. Silver Spirit upgrades like a Silver weapon, but flashing Fist upgrades like a Steel weapon -- it doesn't take any silver ingots to upgrade until +3. Because it is a brave weapon whose upgrades cost like a steel weapon, you can add Mt to it way way before you ever have the resources to upgrade a brave weapon.
I would actually recommend you use refining to turn the Steel Fist Art you get in Jade's recruitment chapter into Flashing Fist Art, then start upgrading it. Though, its only really good to have one martial master, and in my opinion Framme is the best option because she can get to level 20 early by chain guarding on a fort or with a renewal ring, and while her str/mag growths are slightly worse than Chloe, her speed is actually even better. Plus, the fact that she doesn't use a second seal early to switch into martial master helps her viability a lot, even if you don't like abusing chain guard for exp (which I personally do not).
Flashing Fist Art's weight is 9, BUT because it gives speed + 5 it's weight is effectively 4, except that if you have extra build you get speed equal to the difference. Inheriting Marth's perception skill early can massively help, since its very cheap for sp and bond fragments, gives you avoid when attacking with FFA, and the avoid scales off speed, including the +5 speed you get from FFA. Before enemy phase, you can simply trade swap FFA out of the first slot of the martial Masters inventory and have them equip Shield Art for a +10 defensive swing.
These tricks will give you a martial master that can carry you through the midgame, but basically no martial master is viable into the late game without inheriting Lunar Bracelet from Erika. Their utility then switches to being your A rank staff user and late game chain guard provider, both roles of which are still quite good to have 1 of. I don't believe martial Masters should actually be carrying the Erika ring themselves though, as a brave weapon user should be doing that. Roy or Celica are both decent options late game.
Roy and Celica provides 1-2 range and resistance buffs (Roy via binding blade) when engaged, and are the only rings that gives Str and Mag. This will give the martial master a bit of combat utility as your team's resistance tank / mage slayer in the late game for stuff like baiting magic ballistas or chain guarding meteor sages as you advance on their position.
For these reasons, I don't believe you should build more than 1 martial master in any team composition though. The only martial master that has the str/mag growth to get through enemies in the late game is Jean, and I believe Jean is better suited to other classes. Framme is the perfect confluence of available early, high speed, decent enough str/mag growths, able to level via staff exp on Vander for many chapters that she can be made a strong unit in the mid game. Combined with needing to refine a FFA, which you don't really want to do twice, and it means that exactly 1 good Martial Master can be built. By the time you get to the chapter you're on here, their combat potential will have already started to drop off.
amber would be good for warrior because he can use bows and murder fliers, problem with halberdier is that he cannot use his hit rate passive
Its not a big hindrance, you overthink the synergies imo. His passive has moments when he uses javelin or spear on someone. Halberdier canter amber is really good
Idea: Try using Chain Guard spam in the early game with Deirdre S bond ring (gives Renewal). You chain guard then instantly heal back all the damage you’d take from it with Renewal. This really allows you to manipulate the AI and allows Alear to absorb aggro very often without taking damage, leading to easy kill setups.
This would be hilarious but potentially too long to RNG abuse bond ring creation to get that many rings
This strategy starts to fall off past the early game. Once your chain guarder hits 30 HP, the static 5 HP from Renewal no longer covers the 20% max HP you take from chain guarding, since it's bumped up to 6 damage and requires 2 turns to heal.
If only we had NG+ huh
@@IcedCoffeeGaming you can also mess around with forts for framme for that in the 1 early map
@@shadowfate05 it does, but by that time you’ll have access to bonded shield making this mostly redundant. It is fun in the early game until then
"His damage has started falling off.. his accuracy has started falling off.. standard Boucheron things." Damn. More like Boucheroasted.
5:12 I’m no expert on her. But I think what they do is give her the Erika ring for the Lunar Brace effect and place her next to Alear and another unit to make use of both their personals for a bunch of true damage while quading.
everyone else has already said it, but the martial master build requires lunar brace (eg. eirika), otherwise it does nothing. I personally think Martial master is not a good idea on Chloe, considering how low the speed cap is, although one could argue the same thing for Mage Knight's low HP cap crippling Chloe's 75% hp growth, but it might not be a problem until you start hitting late game.
The reason why you take Martial master on Chloe is because of her +3 speed cap and +5 speed from flashing fist, on top of her natural strength and mag growths
It makes Chloe the only unit who can run martial master and consistently quad - she can even quad the final boss with it
What it worked for me was to put chloe in mage knight and when she maxed hp i changer her back to Griffith with forged levin sword, she has been broken all the game and have a lot of flexibility in what emblem or skills to use, shitty MM needs Eirika, no option at all, dunno why ppl overhype it, if anything i feel there are other units that fit better that class than Chloe
Been enjoying Lucina and Sedall. Just having that unit contribute as a backup while having the choice of dance or bonded shield is functional.
now i'm wondering how will the run with the best unit but with worst compatibility class will be
I’ve found Warrior Bucheron really needs Lunar Brace from Erika in order to stay relevant late game
I used Warrior Boucheron in my run, together with Lyn he was a one rounding monster, however it was a hard run, i've no idea how much maddening changes things i'm currently on chapt 5 on my first maddening run.
I have been liking Martial Master Chloe, but it really needs Flashing Fist Art and Eirika for good damage and consistent quading.
Because of that, I left her in Griffin until you get both of those, which has the benefit of slightly boosting her speed by the time you swap over and makes her more usable until the build comes online.
A damage emblem is really important for it though, and Eirika is the best one for it and also hotly contested. I’m not even sure who you’d use otherwise. Maybe Celica? And I’ve heard of people using Hector for Heavy Attack if you have dlc.
It’s a fun build that does real good damage but being reliant on waiting for a specific weapon and a specific emblem are big downsides.
Disclaimer: this has been on Maddening with some dlc, but I don’t think what I’ve been using from the dlc should drastically change how my Chloe performs. Its not like I gave her Tiki or Stasphere and I haven’t used the bonus stat boosters.
Halberdier panette with Sigurd has been working well for me. Can one round a lot of enemies (without pincer) using brave lance and the extra movement helps get her into position to quad when I need to melt down a boss. Lance power plus momentum plus brave lance has been quite strong for me
Martial master is definitely a meme. The reason mage night is okay at hybrid is it gives you a crazy passive to support it. MM gives you a bunch of homework to then get into a class with terrible growths and a just okay payoff. Still annoyed it ruined my first Jean
I didnt got caught in the meme but i was about to do the same for my first Jean, im happy i didnt, its just an awful class
I used martial master Chloe in my most recent maddening run (no DLC), and she was a walking delete button. I used her pretty heavily as a griffin knight early on, so she might have been slightly overinvested in (though it seems like you favor that strategy with her on most of your runs anyway). I swapped her to Martial Master right after I got the Eirika ring, and gave her a forged Flashing Fist Art, I promise you that she goes super hard once she's set up. Having her in griffin knight until about chapter 19 meant that she was relevant for the entire run. Speed cap does kind of become an issue as she can hit 31 relatively early, but that gets increased to 36 with flashing fist art. You can run the speed+ skill or speedtaker from Lyn to push this even higher. She should quad most units until the end of the game.
Also, do you have a discord server or anything like that? I've watched most of your videos since Engage came out and would love to talk about strategies and unit builds some time.
I have Jean as my swordmaster on maddening and tbh, I don't know if Swordmaster is a good class for maddening. I didn't use Kagetsu yet, but Jean's avoidance is so high, I usually have to equip a worse weapon than his main if I use him to pull and one round enemys because they ignore him with his main equipped. I don't know if Kagetsu is better or worse, but atm I fell like I've invested a little too much into Jean's weapon and build. But other than the being ignored because of too high avoid, he's banger.
Flashing Fist Art is good because of the cheap upgrade cost it is like a third or less of Silver/Brave weapons so fitting a MM in your team is cheap, but if you ask me Framme is probably the only viable MM
I think the Martial Master build is all based around using her Personal as well for more bonus damage on top of Alear but I haven’t run it personally so idk how good it is.
I did halberdier bros with kagetsu and Zelkov and it was amazing. Wyvern Lapis I also ran on another run and also phenomenal. Dire thunder Citrinne carried my early and mid game. I also tried martial master Chloe with the Eirika ring and she was great until late game ever her damage kinda fell off.
The MM Chloé build works by stacking a lot of true damage on her, with an engaged Eirika being the centerpiece. Get the quad in and the opponent is likely dead.
The problem I have with this strat is that MM’s speed is really really bad and you have to patch it up with skills - flashing fist isn’t enough. I looked at the amount of BS you need to do to get this build to work… I just did the same thing but w/ brave Lance on wyvern Chloé. Still frequently gets the quads and high Eirika uptime, and now she has an actual speed stat.
With all of you're experience what would the best team be in maddening?
I also ran Amber Halberdier all the way through my last maddening run. Halberdier is not nearly as good as people said. They do good damage against bosses but they have poor defense and often take a shitload of follow-up damage. They're weaker than other units in basically every non boss situation and tbh killing bosses isn't where most teams struggle anyway.
Chloe should end up being good if you give her Flashing Fist Art + Erika but that's a pretty high opportunity cost for what ends up being just a good unit.
I can't get enough of Boucheron. Endgame I have him on Berzerker with Ike (Wrath) and Vantage+Speedtaker inheritables. He has over 90 HP and Tiki DLC give him a second health bar, he can solo an entire maddening map with a tomahawk. When his health is low on enemy phase he'll get in two tomahawks with 40% crit. And with Ike's engage special skill I can go in to a complete swarm of enemies, put on a silver greataxe, take half damage on enemy phase and then kill everything within 2 squares and recover all HP at the start of player phase, it's so satisfying. Overall Bouch is kind of a mediocre unit because of his bad starting stats but I like that about Fire Emblem, when you do a run you naturally and inevitably over-invest in certain units and they become broken way more than they should be.
I don't understand how people say boucheron is bad, I'm in maddening up to ch 17 and boucheron, Louis, Chloe and Alear are the cornerstones of my run. My boucheron is a warrior just like here and he does well, I forged him a +3 silver great axe engraved with the 40 avoid emblem gave him a strong arm bond ring with build +3 and perceptive inherited and he does well for me. Also gave him the longbow since it won't slow him down making him the highest strength archer I have. I'm currently waiting for his build to grow higher so I can swap build+3 for something else like vantage or wrath or maybe more avoid idk.
If you want to Martial Master Chloe to work in Maddening, you need important conditions to fullfill :
1- Erika as it adds true dmg on chloe. If you use anything else it will be trash. Magic from Erika is the only thing that helps a brave weapon in this game (Nova is trash, who cares + related to your brave weapon argument)
2- Reclass after chapter 17, which is when you get flashing fist art (+5 speed)
3- Build +3 or Speed +3 as flash fist art is high wt for her low build, this is pretty cheap
4- You need speed levels when on falcon knight since martial master reclass reduces your speed by quite a lot and also has 28 speed cap. So it's better to stay on it till you get flashing fist. 0 reason to change class before that.
5- Speedtaker late game, so you need to save
Amber as Axe Wolf Knight is a game changer for me patches up his speed gives him access to the best weapon type
Your ideas are mighty fine, i think its more of an Stat problem. I noticed your chars have extremely low RES. Never had this low average around this chapter. Early Starsphere really adds up by the looks of it.. The power of dlc xd
Its sad that Martial Master has terrible speed caps. You can give MM good damage potential with Eirika, but in a world where Halberdier Brave Lance exists, Eirika on that simply outclasses MM completely.
Chloe can still quad everything end game with the speed+4 skill and a tonic, so at least it's not all doom and gloom.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 I think speed taker also ignores the speed cap?
@@happyhappy685 Yeah but it's expensive. Speed+3 and Speed+4 are cheaper, good enough to still double any enemy in the late game except MAYBE a Wolf Knight or Griffin, and you can spend the SP you save on Canter or Avoid. I recommend Avoid. My Martial Master Chloe could one round most enemies late game with Eirika due to Lunar Brace, and giving her some more Avoid made her a decent avoid tank.
Interesting, my MM Chloé is actually a beast, Im basicaly at the same point in the game as is this video. I will certainly not deny that the dlc helps, since I put Tiki ring on here, to boost the growths a bit, but I also let her get few levels as griffin knight, mainly because I did not have enough second seals and other units were priority. I dont use silver arts on her yet, right now she is equiped with steel arts +3 with camilla engrave and she crits like hell. I will probably skip the silver arts since I'll soon get the Flashing Fist.
Also I love her MM outfit, certainly better than griffin knight outfit. :D
I know this video is "older" and I'm a bit late with this math, but Martial Master Chloé with Eirika ends up the same with the same doubling and damage potential as brave lance griffon knight Chloé. By the end game assuming that the martial Master Chloé doesn't switch until obtaining the flashing fist art.
The advantage to Martial Master Chloé is that for about four chapters or so it does more damage. The disadvantage is that it loses flying and range.
It's viable because as far as Chloé is concerned it works out about the same.
You can do something similar with brave bow bow knight Chloé if you wanted for fun
Depending at what point the reclasses chloe, she might just be bad cause she level 15. Who would have thought that the two characters who are actually at the recomended level for the map would be functioning well.
This is most evident on chloe since martial masters due to there weapon being low mt brave weapons with hybrid scaling, are significantly effect by being behind in levels.
Effective Dps wise martial master chloe will have higher damage that a grphyon knight due to literally have more offesive growths.
Main point is that like brave swords, art weapons are only good if the user has a high str/mag growth and is being given enough exp to be aligned with the curve.
You did also identify that martial master is significantly stronger on dificulties below maddening due to how brave weapons interact with the increased defences on maddening.
The reasoning for using erika on martial master would be that martial masters cannot use energy drops or magic dust to fix up their poor damage as their only has as effective on them as other units.
Mauvier,Jade,Yunaka and Celiné are the only people I'd say Martial master is like...ok on due to their mixed offenses actually not suffering TOO much in the class(hitting at least 45 growths in both offensive stats). And even then it's...just okay. If fists were magical it would be great(and arguably can be used with Byleth+Vajra Mushti on off-turns or with Eirika,but I feel like Eirika lends better in combination with a brave flier build). Slapping Lucina on a qi adept is also always nice...but it's also sort of giving up on their offense xd
I feel like Warrior Alcryst would be interesting but he won’t get Luna so you’d prob have to give him a crit build to make up for that. Might try that in my third run I’m starting soon.
in my experience, youll need to put something like a leif engrave on amber's lance early because without something to fix his hit he falls off.
he generally has below average dex for some reason (prob because they expect him to use his personal skill which just isnt possible with harberdier pincers lol)
tbh louis might actually be better as a harberdier just because of better dex (defenses are nice too) but im not sure if he needs more unit favoritism to be viable
I've been wondering how good Fogado can be if you reclass him, since I really like him as a character.
I'm using him as a warrior in my second run which patches up his strength and still lets him double , he also has the advantage of being a backup who's able to equip longbows
I used him as a warrior and he has been solid for me.
he's pretty good on warrior, because he has very high speed when he joins and just needs strength (you gain 6 on reclassing). He might be the better Alcryst longterm, because if you give him lyn he can quad with brave axe early on while dealing massive dmg. And his magic is decent, so if you run into any armor knights you just use radiant bow. Alcryst in the midgame seems very luck dependant, and while he has a higher dmg output cealing with Luna, his base dmg is pretty bad.
@@darkgrundi9543 Think I'd probably go without Alcryst if I did another run. Mine did eventually "pop off" in like chapter 25. Bit late by then 😂
If you keep him as a cupido give him the raidant bow and then eventually the Erika ring + a brave bow. After you do the Erika prologue and get bond level 18 around ch 19 he pops off and starts one rounding generals with a brave bow, as well as one shooting flyers with the raidant bow. He’s one of my strongest units, although it only works later in the game.
Not sure how you built Chloe, but for me what worked was going to Griffin Knight to level 10-15, before going into Martial Master. She was absolutely mental on my maddening run and could solo areas by herself with Flashing Fist + Eirika. Instead, I found the basic Griffin Knight Chloe to be rubbish since she has no damage at all.
I still wish they added some kind of random or randomizer unit mode or something.
Only way I've made Martial Master work is reclassing late game. Early mid game don't see the worth as I preferably have tons of Berserkers, Wyverns and Sages to give them phenomenal growths and then reclass into a different class with better Maximum stats later on.
Luner brace is one of the only non DLC skills that makes fist fighting really viable damage wise against the late game melee units unless you take advantage of other damage sources.
Chloe personal skill and balance growths are the main reason why she is one of the best fist fighters but I do wish the speed cap was at least 30., That why Eirika ring and engraving are the best for martial master plus speed taker skill to make quading easier against some enemies. Weirdly enough the Ike ring also works really well with martial masters because they also have a good defense stats balance so they become all around tanky against all enemies and max wrath is easier to get with the flashing gauntlets. Plus luner brace works really well with great Aether if I remember correctly, this last line might be wrong and if so my bad it been awhile.
What I can guess the reason for fists is that they have the highest base damage with the lowest weight for a brave weapon. The special fist has effective weight 4 and you get speed for any refund build.
How is Jean as a Royal Knight? Maybe with a flame lance. And at least he can still use staves.
I'm a Lapis enthusiast and I can confirm that she pops off in wyvern and Warrior, her speed growth is soooo high she ends up with overkill speed and no strength on any other sword class
I remember when I thought Boucheron's Moved To Tears skill stacked with itself. Thought that would make him incredibly strong on a backup attack focused team. It... didn't work, obviously. I still beat the game, but Boucheron was a liability. Maybe he would have been better with Lunar Brace instead of Axe Power?
Personally I feel High priest scales better eith arts than martial Master on specific units since if they lean into magic, you have the option of using a tome but the average of 15 and 14 is balanced sure but not as good as a 13 and a 25. A lot of my art units have seen better progress on high priest specifically for the better magic. Jean also increases arts to B for high priest allowing silver use which helps
I wonder if the worst possible Engage team would be just the first 12 recruits of the game? So up to Alcryst, without Citrinne and Lapis.
Maybe. It's hard for me to believe that Jean is worse than, say, citrinne or fogado or bunet given a reasonable amount of training
People are doing a run like that. I think someone said it’s hard but you won’t softlock at least.
Halberdier on a decently fast units was alright because it allowed them to double extremely fast units they wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Martial master chloe is really more a late game switch if you feel her strength/magic fell off too much. Its a class to dump characters that aren't cutting it in other classes, like the opposite of halberdier. Halberdiers don't care too much about speed if you're setting up pincer attack so you dump all your low spd no crit physical units in that class. Martial Masters care almost only about speed (despite its low speed cap) to quad hit because lunar brace provides almost all the damage. So its where you dump Chloe, Lapis, Framme, Clanne, etc. if you feel their physical damage fell off too much as maddening enemy units scaled up.
I really think its the team thats bad and not most of these units trying some offbrand build. Doesn't seem like you've considered what to keep bog standard and low investment and like 2 or 3 to go all in on the meme builds. That and I don't know if your mission was to try so many unique builds/tests that you forgot to build a team core like having a good ratio of offense over defense.
Might be wrong, but maybe consider 1 or 2 of these unit builds again with a better structured team of units you already know are going to get the job done. Glad Dire Thunder Citrinne is showing you how its done, though!
I don't use Halberdier because I just assume its a weaker class than other Backup options, so based on your results I might have the right hunch there. Like at least Sword Master has insane speed growth and cap, so you can go Quads with Eirika and get actual results + breaks. Warrior is just a godly class if you've planned around a few Assist+ and/or Breaking. Shame bosses can't be broken but it'd be too easy. Obviously a Hero or 2 is great for Assist and a decent bruiser.
And I've seen Maddening Chloe do some nasty Quad stuff on Eirika's paralogue before these DLC rings were out.
I'm surprised you misunderstood martial master Chloe so bad. Although there are actually a number of other decent candidates (clanne, framme, merrin, mauvier, fogado) Chloé biggest advantage is her personal stacking true damage.
Boucheron still needs Marth, and a brave axe with an accuracy boost engrave, plus some addition power from either lunar brace, axe power+ or strength+. He's a late bloomer.
Would you say there are better classes than halberdier for Amber? If so, what would you reccomend?
Also,triangle strategy got news yesterday, its going to get an update in the future
hell yeah triangle strategy :)
As for Amber, he could potentially run Warrior very well and end up like Panette but with front loaded investment
Source? Very exciting if true
Is Jean a good Halberdier?
Personally i don't feel like halberdier pincer is difficult to set up at all. I have canter on a couple units so it's quite easy to just have a unit hit something then position behind something you wanna nuke. And for bosses you can't one round you're obviously gonna have them surrounded
I went griffon axe boucheron side by side with griffon lance chloe and they are about the same internal level and theyre basically the exact same unit but bouchie has no mag in exchange for more bld, def, and higher mt weapons he just needs an accuracy engrave or siggy's hit +15 and ur golden
chloe martial master needs eirika because you want to quad with lunar brace. shes the best for it because she has balanced growths as well as high speed, allowing her to quad everyone and dodge in between so she doesn't get one tapped.
Rosados base str of 7 is pretty low, if you want to use him his main upside is access to speedtaker. Then I’d recommend either wyvern or warrior to fix his str faster.
citrinne and lapis has twice the level of bucheron and amber, whats up with that?
1 rounding enemies yields more XP and over time units that 1 round enemies will out level other units
I've been trying to follow your guides for my own Maddening playthrough, and it's going well. I see you're using smash weapons on a few of your units, and that's one area I'm having trouble with on Maddening, I'm not sure when or how to deploy them except for engage attacks. How do you use them most effectively?
You can use a ranged weapon (like tomahawk or spear) to break an enemy then get a free smash weapon hit on them. Tanky, low speed units also like them since they can take a hit pretty well.
The only time I ever use heavy smash weapons is on enemy phase with Ike's Great Aether skill to maximize the damage and HP recovery from everything that comes within 2 squares
Every time I've done one of those annoying Miasma maps that make enemies super tanky while they stand in it, I've used Smash weapons to knock them out of those spots so I can actually kill them that turn. I don't like the Miasma.
On my current playthrough, I have a Micaiah engraved Smash weapon on my Lapis, who inherited Marth's avoid boosting skills in the early-game. She has the option to slap enemies around for free on Player Phase if I want her to at the time, since they can't hit her.
But yeah, just put them on characters who will take little to no damage so they don't need to worry about getting hit first. Smash enemies into walls or other enemies to inflict Break regardless of weapon type. Need an enemy off of that spot and you can't quite kill them? Smack them out of the way so you can do whatever plan you have in mind.
The most frequent and practical uses for them are definitely gonna be hitting enemies for big damage on Enemy Phase and making your Engage Attacks hit as hard as possible. Slower, tanky units who likely aren't gonna double anyway lose nothing from having at least one on hand.
Boucheron+Hero+Lucica= maybe can be awesome with his passive will it trigger +2 per chain attack join??
Its not per attack its +2 damage on his attacks when anyone joins a combat he initiates.
Martial Master is a bad class to level in since it has no Spd modifiers. If you want to use fist arts then generally they would stick to Griffin then transition to Martial Master with Eirika and a forged Flashing Fist art in the chapter 20s.
I'm pretty sure it was a deliberate decision to make sure fist/arts users aren't too strong in this game, just like they kept Wolf Knight and Thief's strength modifiers low to prevent dagger users from breaking the game
Question: Does critical hit calculate and/or proc independently for each hit if your unit quads?
Yes
The people that had success with martial Master Chloé built her correctly. You change class at ch17 once you get the speed fist art, and give her Eirika for 20+ true damage from the quad. Speed+ skill, speed taker if you have enough. With Martial Master she cant be broken and can break 4 weapon types
Any chapter sooner than that it will feel really bad
Though one could argue that griffin Chloé could do the same with a brave lance (well only breaking 2 weapon types to avoid counter attacks, and can be broken herself).
Since the build is so specific it's more like a fun second playthrough thing rather than something I'd tell people to try first run
Have you tried flashing fist art instead of silver spirit art on Chloe? The speed loss from Griffin Knight -> Martial Master will be offset by the +5 speed from flashing fist and +1 bld from MM. That would bring her back to effectively Griffin Knight levels of speed. Downside is that you only get the +5 speed on player phase. Edit: oops didn't see the last half of the video lol
By late game that won't help because mm spd cap is low which makes no sense.
@@RenegadeVash Chloe has 18 base speed in the vid with 55% speed growth. MM has speed cap of 28 so she needs around 20 level ups to hit max speed cap. Which I think is possible to hit cap since this is chapter 17 but that would require her taking a lot of exp. AFAIK flashing fist +5 speed goes over speed cap
@@priestessii sure if you feed her and slap on speedtaker with speed bonus, but that applies to everyone. By the last map mid speed enemies like halberdiers have 30-33 spd which means you need 38 or more to quad them which is 10 over mm cap. Also without Erika they can only go after squishy targets which are even faster beside mages.
If you like the unit run it but it is only effective as heavily invested Erika quader which you can do with any brave weapon
@@priestessii Kagetsu, Merrin, Fogado, Timerra, any Halberdier with strength to name a few that also get higher strength throughout your run. Or just run Panette and oneshot with only 2 hits and Erika. Even Framme is a better MM lategame, so there really is no reason to ruin Chloe with this build. Just use her on Wyvern Knight and she will snowball in the early game with no investment at all.
@@priestessii let's do some math shall we? If we lvl Framme up to lvl 6 she has 21,25 Hp, 5,5 Str, 8 Mag, 10,25 Dex, 10,25 Spd, 6,25 Def, 11 Res and 7,25 Lck. You can compare these stats with Chloes basestats and you'll see she has overall half a point more dmg, 5 less hp, 3 less speed but 3 more defences. (i put half a statpoint onto any starting stats, cause otherwise the game would give you no stat ups on your first lvl up, but it does, so it seems that that is the case for every unit). Now then Framme also has better growths in martial monk with a combined dmg growth of 90 compared to Chloes 75 and Framme already had higher combined base dmg but has 20 less speed growth, however Framme also has combined 20 more growths in defences, while losing out on Hp, but 1 Seraph robe fixes that easier than multiple talismans/Dracoshields. It is also better to not Master seal her, because Framm would lose 5 Mag growth, therefor it is fine that you don't invest into her at all in the early game and only let her heal/take last hits with alears divine blessing. Throughout your Run Framme will end up with slightly less speed but a lot more might than Chloe, and also more defences compared to Chloes HP. In my opinion, fixing speed is very easy with flashing fist plus Lyn shenanigans, while fixing dmg output requires forging and Master sealing early and using energy drops and these are limited in the early game. So yeah idk how you got that Framme was a worse Martial Master. Her speed cap also is only 1 lower than Chloes.
Just started my maddening run and i wondering if I should give lyn to ivy or alcryst ?
my suggestion is Ivy since enemies can't often take advantage of her range limitations. Alcryst for me constantly gets attacked by units that he can't counter attack, but Ivy can counter against anything except longbows and thunder mages, and thunder mages do very little dmg to her, whereas if you put her in the sights of a longbow you kinda deserve to die for it if a hit lands
I would say run Lyn on Ivy until you get Celica back, then have Ivy wear that and siwtch Lyn to Alcryst. I did that on my last run and it worked well. I recommend having Ivy inherit Speedtaker, Speed+ and/or Alacrity when you switch Lyn off though.
Nah, the point of Martial Master Chloe is to throw Eirika Emblem on her, or just have her inherit Lunar Brace.
The idea is to have Lunar brace proc on as many hits as possible, i.e. Fists or Brave weapons.
Maddening foes have fairly high defense, so the buff is non-trivial, and I'm pretty sure the bonus damage is just pure-damage, so it cuts through a lot of different types of opponents fairly effectively.
The downsides are lack of range and mobility, and the fact that the class itself is somewhat frail, but, as a glass cannon, it's pretty solid. Should try it out that way to salvage this run, lol.
Doesn't Lunar Brace cost 3k SP? I can get this by chapter 22 on a no DLC run.
Lyn ring is best for high strength and low speed users like Panette and Amber best use cases for Lyn Ring for her ultimate move, speedtaker, and ring stats giving dex and speed.
Next runners up for Lyn ring is Louis and Etie.
The best users for the Lucina ring are dagger holders, preferably wolf knight because of the extra movement = more range for dual assist to reach, because daggers from a chain attack still apply poison stacks = the entire team does more damage.
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From my Maddening run S tier rings are:
Corrin
Lyn
Lucina
Sigurd (only for Canter)
A tier rings are:
Tiki (one unit gets slightly better growths, aka slap this on Jean, and Tiki on a general gets ice breath which freezes units in place for a basic engaged attack and provides AoE damage)
Soren (C tier for normal/hard, S tier for Maddening to force maddening AI to attack 0% hit / 0 damage units)
Leif (because it provides a lot of build for a low build unit)
Roy (allows for a glass cannon to not die, +5 levels of stats while engaged, and provides area fire if you need it)
B tier ring to mention:
Three Houses (it is just kind of a single target nuke ultimate like Leif and the ability to act twice, but the first act with a smash axe, can be useful, but Celica can act twice as well and multiple times per engage, ring stats are decent as well)
Camilla (good for Seadall because the engage effect is +2 movement and makes him act like he is flying, and the Qi Adept effect for dragon veins is the only thing different to Corrin which is ice field for +2 movement to up to 3 allies) (her engrave is also 30% crit too, but a worse version of what Corrin gives unless you stick it on a glass cannon)
F tier rings are:
Ike
Hector (though Hector can be pretty good for only Timerra)
Dodgy characters are good for lyn clones and alacrity
What is this ring tier list based on Camilla F Hector F is some wild af take especially if using dragon Alear on Camilla for other dragon veins or AOE nuking, three houses in B when gives strength Dex defense lets you use aoe poison not take damage from range or burn tiles is wild not to mention + attack buff and letting non archers have a powerful bow or spear for 4 turns and having the ability to go multiple times a turn, Ike being that low with strength bonus you get and a lot of extra bulk without any real cost is insane, Leif being higher than Ike is really funny considering Ike provides all that bulk and units shouldn't have as many bld issues unless ruining bad units. Dagger Lucina isn't that good unless on bosses units should be able to one turn majority of enemies and Lucina better on fliers due to fliers being better with bonded shield which is way more offensive, Tiki A when Starsphere + AoE + Revive + 5 stats in everything + buffing party defenses + free heal standing still + if near marth can restore engage meter late game idk what this tier list is based on when majority of it seems off from an outside point of view
Also Soren can tank hits entire time and never die off them if double on enemy phase, + debuff enemies + 9 area nuke if near Ike + Bolting and hexcalibur added onto his marking is easy S
@@thatoneguy78228 Obviously Nos tanking, especially with any tome, has not and will never be viable.
@@shadowfate05 i did it 2 playthrough agos on Anna in maddening with 0 stat boosters, its even easier to set up if you get holdout
I love the chaos in this team.
i used chloe and erika on martial master, been dealing big damage with her. no regrets
i feel the only 'good' offensive martial master is mauvier, just an extra guy who throw around obstructs and can one round beast units on lowish investment has been worth my while
Martial masters will be bad until you get flashing fist art scroll and boost it to as high as you possibly can, leveling it doesn't take as much resources as other weapons and you want marth or leif engraving on it. Basically you want to take advantage of the inherit doubling from the scroll, the +5 speed on flashing fist to not fall behind and to quad hit, and positioning you want them to be near Alear to deal as much dmg as possible otherwise martial masters will just be relegated to healing duty.
So you are having accuracy problems with a character whose personal skill gives him +20 Hit, but the condition to get that +20 Hit gets nullified if you meet the condition for Halberdier's Pincer Attack to proc. I want to give Amber a try, but I don't think that makes any sense to make him Halberdier.
I'm having nightmares about Sage Pandreo 💀
Why?
@@happyhappy685 looks ultra cursed
MM Chloe needs Eirika to function.
I've been making Yunaka the Martial Master instead of chole
I don't appreciate this MM Chloe slander lol. My Martial Master Chloe has been such an MVP in my Maddening no DLC run which can one round pretty much anything. You can't just pop her into MM and expect her to do crazy things right away especially on a Lucina ring... IMO flashing fist art quad build is the way to go with Corrin engraving and Erika Ring. Chloe's passive is what makes her better in this role compared to others. I recommend keeping Chloe in Griffin Knight for the speed growths until Ch.17 where you get her best weapon, then class change her for best results. Skills I like are Perceptive from Marth you can get early game and Speed taker from Lyn to help quads are her avoid. SP totals is like 2250 which is very easily doable.
But how is this better than Wyvern/Griffin? Both require significantly less investment/setup and likely even outperform this
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Less investment... Sure, but I highly doubt it would outperform by much if at all. The investment is 2250 SP, Erika Ring, upgrade Flashing Fist Art, and a second seal after Ch.17. I doubt Wyvern/Griffin can one round story bosses/corrupted wyrms/armors/great knights/etc in the late game like the MM can. It's not even that much more investment and it gives a good use to the flashing fist art (which also isn't even expensive to upgrade in comparison to other higher grade weapons). Then you can just make someone else a Wyvern/Griffin on your team to fulfill that team slot if you want since its so easy for anyone to be good at it. Yeah, vanilla MM on anyone is gonna be bad and would have to be delegated to a support role (i.e. Lucina) without proper investment unlike other classes that are easy to use and good right off the bat. Give this a method of using MM Chloe with Erika ring a shot, I promise it won't disappoint!
Rosado and Chloe are far better as fliers here (Might be biased because I always run Rosado and prefer his performance on fliers), Jean kind of want as combat but imo with the amount of good physical units you get prob better as a mage but Anna better investment as a pupil, Amber looks like could possibly be good but I think would be more funny to run Louis Halberdier since similar growths but bulkier. Rosado speed is good enough to double just need killer axe Lyn engraving for weight reduction upgraded if can a bit until Griffin Knight
Amber might suck, but honestly the halberdier armor is pretty sick.
Martial Master Chole is just depressing. She's just _unfinished_ without a flying mount: ruclips.net/video/5xZ_KQhv8T8/видео.html
People use Eirika on Chloé Martial master to make her viable, not Lucina
Martial Master is honestly just a bad class because of the math on fist weapons. I wanted to see if I could make it decent and did a DLC run put tiki on jean for 30 levels and fed him to hell where hes like 26/32 str/magic with the flashing fist weapon alacrity and +5 speed skill and hes still struggling to quad and even when he does he often doesn't kill without erika active. Unlike other brave weapons you cant boost damage of fists with X power and because it's (magic+str)/2 you have to have 50+ growth in both to make it just keep up with any other weapon type.. It's just so bad mathematically.
It's interesting that you found jean bad because i had him as one of my hardest hitters, guess I got lucky
It sounds like you wanted to try out a bunch of stuff that you weren't sure would be viable or not and a bunch of it turned out to be terrible. Mission failed successfully?
A few things worked most of it was bad hahaha. Funny enough CH17 wasn't too hard thanks to map tactics though