@@RobertMitchell awesome video as always thanks mate! I somehow started to watch this when you launched it and didn't finish it all the way through probably as I was at the F1 but glad I finished it off all the way through! It makes total common sense re the 2 tyres in the sunshine 🌞 and great you have that forethought to think about it that way. Excellent stuff! I really enjoy the more technical aspect even though I know most of it already within reason, being a life long motorsport and car fan, and your explanations are fantastic and your experience and insight is the great part of it. It's great your using the downtime to do loads of techy videos great work! I can't wait for round 2 of tyre talk as it's such a crucial part of being quick on a lap and sadly under estimated by some people! It's the best mod to a car on a budget in my opinion and then brakes.... keep up the excellent content.... whats on the drink menu tonight?
@@RobertMitchell You're welcome! Exactly the kind of content I enjoy watching. If you'd start a podcast, I'd definitely listen to it. I sometimes listen to your videos while driving 👍
Yeah I learned this the hard way cooking a set of Michelin PS4s at a track day by not paying attention to the changes in temperature on the day. Rookie mistake for sure but learned from it
I think you said most of what is relevant to understand a great bit of how the tire pressure thing is going. What is the biggest mistake of many people is that they try to copy tire pressures from other people running their cars. Tire pressure is an individual thing related to the tire, the car, the weight, the driving style etc... The head of my breaks are influencing a lot my tire pressure on the GTR due to the heavy car which dissipates a lot of breaking head. The alignment has also a big influence on tire wear so bad wear on the outside of the tire is not only a matter of too less tire pressure but might also be caused of too less camber. To high camber can result in strong wear on the tire inside especially if running very stiff tire walls like on run flats. It is a very very complex thing to find out the right balance between all the factors. What I would be interested to hear you speak about, is tire temperature on the contact patch. As many tires need to be run in a specific temperature window for working perfectly and deploying max grip without wearing off to fast.
@@RobertMitchell I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with reliability of the cars (including the rental cars). Any recurring issues, upgrades you have had to make, etc. :)
AC tyre modelling isn't that accurate (according to Aris); and factors like the amount of negative camber, spring and damper rates you are running also impacts the pressures you need. :)
You said what I wanted to hear. " ns2r, front wheel drive, 2,4-2,5 bar" at front. I was always wondering about the low pressures recommended. It doesn't feel right. Bought a digital tyre pressure tool and a thing to check the temperature on the surface of the tyre. It is exactly how you say. As a result, I was right. Thanks for the video.
Understand the reason for selecting GT2RS wheel for ease of instruction. However I would have selected it because it's the meanest baddest wheel around :)
Great great content !!! Love to learn from people that actually have their “hands dirty” ... that are on the real world dealing with real situations... 👏👏👏
all this info applies to us autocrosser's too. would enjoy another video. I was running the PS4S for two years, which was a great tire for the pacific NW, but you are correct - that tire does need extra pressure to keep happy. I have recently bought the A052's and figure I can run a bit lower pressures because of it being a more performance tire with stiffer sidewalls.
As usual Robert, an excellent discussion teaching me things I never knew.... I've never heard anyone explain this...thanx so much!!!! This explains why my '18 NSX requires 38 psi cold. I thought that was quite high, but it's a heavy car at 3800 lbs....now I get it. 😁
Thanks again for another profound and entertaining video! Great to see your enthusiasm for car tech and the support for less experienced drivers. It would be great if you could show an example with a car from your rental fleet. Pressures at start (i.e. recommended by manufactuer), after warmup lap, and how you would adjust the pressures for the next laps. It's clear that this is also depending on the driver and the speed, but this can give an idea of how it works.
When you talk about the sunshine affecting pressures,this is why lots of quick drag cars hang cover flaps over the rear slicks while they are waiting in the fire up lanes.
If you have the time and if there is enough interest, can you make a series called “Apex University.” These tech talks are so in-depth and easy to understand, while making it enjoyable. Keep up the great work, cheers!
alignment issues cause different wear than wrong pressures. pretty easy to detect which one is causing problem by visual inspection. problems with suspension elements are also causing some specific wear patterns. in fact, if you are a tyre professional, you can learn a lot about tyre, vehicle and driver by just inspecting the tread, sidewalls, bead and inner liner ;) what I learned from my experience is that very few people understand importance of tyres but most of them overestimate bigger engine power. first ones gain a lot of seconds for 0 € spent and latter spend thousands of € to be just slightly faster but visiting their mechanic after every track day .
Top technical content as always. Ive been having issues with high tyre pressures as well without being on the track. The cold pressures and in the city were both perfect, but as soon i go to the highway the pressure built by the heat get high enough to increase body roll. So clearly the tyres were running on the center belt. After allowing the pressures to get down a bit, on lower speed agressive driving, i noticed a bit more lateral flex until the temp gets optimal, after reaching optimal temp the behaviour got better but now on higher speeds the car stays planted. Was nice to see you talking about uneven pressures when the car is on the sun. Also noticed it. The more log i do, the better the perception is about the tyre dynamics.
Never realised there was this much to tire pressures. Looking forward for the next video! And since you call it a ''17 minute tire pressure teaser'', I think i might need to get a day off to watch the next video 🤣
It's amazing how much there is to learn about tires and their pressures. From what i've been seeing lately, investing in a pyrometer is probably one of the best things one can do to help with figuring out pressure and camber/toe settings. After going from a soft sidewall street tire to a more aggressive semi slick with stiffer sidewalls, it took me 3 sessions to get the pressures dialed in somewhat close, primarily due to inexperience. The change in tires also was extreme enough to warrant changes to the alignment and even spring rates/damping, but that's way beyong my capabilities. The Pyrometer should more easily show you shortcomings in both alignment and general pressure settings, it's definitely the next tool i'll purchase.
Great video and with pointing out all the right things. Amazing to see how much higher the pressures are on the Pista with road legal tyres compared to the 488 Challenge with Tropheo slick. We start ata 1.35-1.4 bar Cold which will easily see them up to past 2.5 bar hot. We bleed them off to operate at 1.8-1.9 bar and maybe different side to side depending on the type an direction of circuit.
Thank you for this! Never thought about the sun shining on the tires would have such a drastic effect! Would love a part 2 and maybe you could talk a little more about warming up the tires, getting temps under control on a long Nordschleife lap when you feel them going off and how many heatcycles track tires can typically handle. Thank you! Great content as always.
It all gets further complified with staggered tire sizing (not that rare even for stock OE sizing these days), if one looks just on pressures vs weight/load distribution. From tire pressure related stuff, it's wonderful/easy to use "tool" for small onsite/at track grip bias adjustments, that's easy to revert at that (of course worth making persistent with adjustable roll bars or alignment changes later on). As for even contact patch, maximizing grip, better tire wear/life, predictable handling, imho as much or even more important then pressures is alignment of car that is optimized for use and often undeservedly left out/ignored, but that's probably worth separate video about.
Yes I even mentioned in the video that this discussion has to assume that your alignment is good as there at many factors there that can create temp Issues
I'd like to hear your thoughts on street tire pressures. Not like for driving in town or highway (where I suppose I should have the pressures recommended by the manufacturer), but for mountain roads and "sporty" driving, with "sporty" road tires like the PS4. P.s.: I find this tech talks pretty addictive
I’m really enjoying all these tech videos I’m learning a ton! Also helps that you keep referencing the NS2R’s since I just got a set and I’m running them on a Mk3 Jetta Vr6 so front engine fwd.
Also your tire width and rim width play a role. A tire will have a rim with range for example 7-8 inches, but optimally designed for 7.5 inches. If you run the same tire on a 7 inch rim the side wall will balloon and become soft. If you run the same tire on an 8 rim the side wall becomes stiff giving you a totally different ride. There are so many factors in tires you need to consider.
Here I’m just talking pressures. No matter ein width you still need the right pressure. W that said... Sometimes a wide rim will help stiffen a sidewall as it creates that angle on the sidewall.
I am working on my tire pressures all the time, finally realized that i need more tire pressure on the cup2 on my MK7 TCR, simply i have more weight on the front tire in compare to the rear....but anyway...One of my most seen channels👋🏻😉 great explainations robert
I’m happy I found your channel. Very informative. Could you comment on adjustable coilovers. Specifically, Porsche 997C4S, modified track car. The art of best settings for this car, different track conditions. In general, conventional wisdom seems to suggest compression softer and rebound stiffer in front and the reverse, compression stiffer and rebound softer in the rear. Do you agree or do you have a different perspective. Thanks.
Super interesting and helpful! How about a video on tech essentials for a day at the Nordschleife? What to check before you drive, what tools might be helpful to have at hand, things to have an eye on during the day, etc? I think that would be helpful for a lot of people, especially when they bring their road cars to drive.
Since day 1 of our trackdays we have been keeping record of tyre pressures and temperatures and I am sure we have been working economical with our sets and have influenced times, safety and confidence hugely. Regarding N2 in tyres, don’t forget that every gas expands the same for a given temperature increase. The temp increase caused by compressing is different for every gas, On a smooth track, main temperature rises are caused by the heat getting in the rubber and wheels, not by the small compressions the gas is experiencing. Did you also mention about tyre temperature and so pressure for clockwise and anti-clockwise tracks. It could well be that isn’t really an issie on that huge Nordschleiffe, but it is on smaller tracks. Going clockwise with a front driven, front engined car will give you lower temp increase and pressure increase on the righthand side tyre. That wheel is ‘less’ used, ‘less abused’ and On’t get that same amount of heat.
Great video. I can blame my poor lap times on insufficient tyre pressure knowledge rather than ability. When I was at the ring a few years ago in my E90 M3 and it was 37c my tyres greased up by wipperman. I could only do 2 hot(ish) laps due to tyres going off so quickly with 2 bar.
Have you ever considered running tyre pressure monitors on the Taxis? I think it would be interesting to see how much the pressure changes during a lap.
Thanks for explaining i always thought that i need to run more tire pressure on the rear in a FF car because the rear isnt doing that much and therefore isnt getting up to temperature that good
Robert Mitchell I take it the R&D hours to know the right pressures equates to many hours and laps of the ring regards the feeling of the car..... or would you go on a recommendation in some cases ?
Never knew there was Soo much into tires.. I mean it's important bc that's what makes contact with the road. I'm beginning to understand why so many ppl with new supercars total them.. they just step on it and go not caring if the tires are warm or the right type
Great content Robert! Thank you for doing it despite being so busy. I have a question for you. How do you handle tire pressure on your taxis? I suppose not every day is a 50+ rounds day so the tires get cold between the laps.
I have one question, i've got a quite heavy car, and just for road use the manufacturer not only lists different pressures for "empty, and loaded" but for below 250 km/h and above (up to 300). So with a lightly loaded car the front would be 2,3bar the back 2,1 but for speeds above 250, up to 300 it lists around 3 bar front and 2,9 in the back. While i had known most of what you explained, i still can't figure out a reason for that difference. 👍 for the great video! I had people think i am joking when trying to explain the pressure difference due to summer sun exposure. (not for racetrack use, but people who checked their tire pressure after the car sitting half of the day in the sun so only one side got full sun)
the tire is generating heat just from friction and from deformation (internal friction) . The less pressure you have, the more deformation you will have on the contact patch and around it. When you are going very fast, you are deformating the tire more often in a shorter time around that contact patch and the tire will also get bigger due centripetal force (forgive me if i confuse centripetal and centrifugal) which makes the deformation in the other direction bigger. This will generate more heat, than the tire can dissipate to the air around it, even without any heavy friction or slip (there is slip in this scenario, but i thinks its not the "heatmaker" in this case)
Thank you Robert for the great content! And recently I am trying to figure out the best setting for toyo r888r on my A45. Tried 2.4 bar last time, but it seems to be too high. Maybe I’ll try 2.0, 2.1 bar next time. Please share some more tips on how to tell whether the tire has the right pressure next time.
After playing with pyrometer and pressure gauge, i can tell you I hate doing it. Its all a bunch of calculated estimation and as the day goes on you are going to make pressure changes. But as long as I have figured out a range in which the tire pressure should be, I just bleed my tires down to that pressure after getting off the track Hot.
Hey man, loving the videos. Could you drive a Kia picanto on the ring. From other reviews I had seen it’s better to drive than the UP and I wanna see what you think.
Robert Mitchell but would it be possible to drive it on the ring with Misha and compare the driving experience to the UP ( in stock form) as I will be choosing between one of the 2 as my first car 🚗
Very interesting video! I love how you explain the physics behind the matter. It does that you understand the topic. I learnt a couple of things I do wrong with my tire pressure. Question: how is the graining related to the tire heat? Do I drive with too low pressure? Too hot? Too cold? Too aggressive? Just right? Cheers. Love your channel that I just discovered yesterday!
This is a really interesting subject. Which is better - heating up the tyres and then reducing the pressures, or reducing the pressures to below normal levels and then letting the tyres heat up, to achieve the "correct" pressures? I have done many BMW Driver Training sessions on the Ring, and I was surprised to hear that they do the latter - run some laps at below normal pressure so that the tyres heat up and achieve the "right" pressure. That seemed counter-intuitive to me - running at lower pressures would surely cause more sidewall flexing and so more temperature build-up, than the other way around. But does it just end up with the same result as reducing the pressures as tyres heat up? And don't manufacturers quote higher pressures for more intense use? High speed/high load pressures are higher than standard, presumably to counter the friction caused by tyre wall flexing?
Great info! I knew some of this but learned a huge amount. How do *you* balance between your tire (tyre) wall stiffness/tire pressure and your suspension ride. Meaning, to keep the car comfortable but quick.
Damn, you sure you've never worked as a tyre engineer in a race team?! Are the OEM tyre pressure sensors in some cars accurate enough to use or would you still have to physically measure each tyre before/after going on the track? Keep the videos coming... loving the in depth details of what goes on behind the scenes..
Excellent conversation Robert - thank you. With reference to your mentioning about the effect of the sun on the tires on one side of the car, I find this happening quite a bit on mine. You have a unique vantage point, being steward of a number of cars that you track regularly. Do you find that the handling of some of your cars is more sensitive to tire pressure differentials than others? (In my 964 differences in tire pressure, esp. the fronts are clearly noticeable.) Do you check your pressures before & after every lap? Do the tires on the heavier cars change pressure more significantly than the lighter ones.
Hi, Robert Which brand of tires, COP 2 R or EAGLE F1 SUPERSPORT RS, will give the fastest time on a dry track. As the tires are mounted on GT2RS MR, PISTA. Thanks!
Would you " finesse " tyre pressures after the chassis adjustments are set? I guess more fixed points you can keep (rebound,compression etc) the better it is to only adjust the minimum of things ,so is the tyre pressure the last thing in the " chain" of adjusting or dialling in the car.
Great video! Do you do any type of temperature monitoring i.e. with pyrometers or sensors? This is really the only true way to dial in the pressures and alignment for a specific car and tire compound.
Tyre pressure. A science for itself. I once spun and nearly crashed because I thought it was a good idea to run 1.6 BAR in a Federal 595 RS-R . Was a good lesson though....
@@RobertMitchell It was at the auto slalom so I wasn't really fast, still came pretty close to one of those concrete bunkers the Air Force parks their planes in. I had a few spinners in the auto slalom but I learned so much since you are in a a state of weigt transition nearly all the time. That knowledge even saved my butt a few times on the Nordschleife. ;)
@@RobertMitchell That is what mistakes are there for, right? ;) For driving I try to be there once a month and do some laps. Did four laps last sunday. Since last year I started working as a track marshall on the side so I can be at the Nurburgring more often. So usually two to four times a month, at the moment a little bit less for the known reasons.
i guess low tire pressures first came from F1, where tires have so much rubber that having less pressure, and high downforce increases contact patch of the tire.
Hi,Robert! FIRST:Would you consider to buy,road legal track toy like:RADICAL,ULTIMA GTR,DALLARA STRADALE,BAC MONO? SECOND:Come to Croatia on vacation! There is a, fantastic"The most beautiful"coast road,down to Dubrovnik! Just like in Callifornia,plus over 1000 islands! (Travel VLOG) Also,maybe TEST the new RIMAC c2!! Btw,greetings from the beach in Dubrovnik! #KingsLanding #GOT #StarWars #Coronafree #SAVEtourism #TODAY WE SHOULD BEAT ENGLAND AGAIN,AT WEMBLEY #EURO2020!!😂👍
Hi Robert, great content as always. Could you please tell me what hot tire pressures would you run on the Nurbugring on a C63 with PSS/P4S 245 40 18 fronts and 265 40 18 rears? Have been getting conflicting answers so hope you clear it up for me, thanks a lot!
Robert, thank you for your videos. What are/will run on a Jaguar Project 8 with Cup2 & R? What's the best tire will be for the project 8 as well? Thank you for sharing your experiences. Max
The main thing about tire pressure is the heat management. If you don't overdrive the car heavily, more pressure can mean colder temperatures. this is something I consider very important, especially, many people overheat their tires. There are many semi slicks which do not really work good above 60°C. But no one believes it. And then there are the guys Running 90°C running 2 bar in a ultraheavy f82 M4. This is dangerous :( But a question: Do you have problems of AR1s spinning on the rim when you run to low tire pressure (something like 2 bars). i'm constantly balancing my wheel because the tires move. Maybe the wheels are the problem, but it was very confusing until i marked the valve position on the tire. And no im not running something super heavy and powerful with 1.5 bar :D
![Tyre Pressure | How To FIND Your Perfect Tire Pressures [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-59jhbWDwkM/mqdefault.jpg)
Can you perform Under Pressure?
- No, but I can do Bohemian Rhapsody.
I thought you’d be pumped on this topic
King of Memes 🤣
No, but I want to break free ;)
Introducing "Tyre Pressure 2" the retirement.
Okay now I'm just getting tired of these jokes 😉
Misha and Robert is killing it on YT. Very refreshing to see quality content and no selling stuff.
Well, they’re selling the Apex brand - it’s just a lot less in your face than other channels
@@dreamcrusher112 well, no shavers, car raffles, crypto mastermind with maximum value or shoe apps. :)
Dont jinx it now
This was 17 minutes well spent!
I’m glad you enjoyed! Thank you so much
I'm up early and awake for Apex university!
I can barely believe we're getting ACTUAL high-quality content here on YT. Keep'em coming, guys!
I’m glad you’re enjoying it!
@@RobertMitchell awesome video as always thanks mate! I somehow started to watch this when you launched it and didn't finish it all the way through probably as I was at the F1 but glad I finished it off all the way through! It makes total common sense re the 2 tyres in the sunshine 🌞 and great you have that forethought to think about it that way. Excellent stuff! I really enjoy the more technical aspect even though I know most of it already within reason, being a life long motorsport and car fan, and your explanations are fantastic and your experience and insight is the great part of it. It's great your using the downtime to do loads of techy videos great work! I can't wait for round 2 of tyre talk as it's such a crucial part of being quick on a lap and sadly under estimated by some people! It's the best mod to a car on a budget in my opinion and then brakes.... keep up the excellent content.... whats on the drink menu tonight?
Never really thought about the difference in pressure from being sat in the sun, nice little snippet of valuable info there for me 👌 thanks Robert
Glad you enjoyed !
First: Like. Then: Watch 😊👍
Thank you for the high level of support 🤣🤣
@@RobertMitchell You're welcome! Exactly the kind of content I enjoy watching. If you'd start a podcast, I'd definitely listen to it. I sometimes listen to your videos while driving 👍
I could darn near just upload these as podcasts lol
@@RobertMitchell 100% just add a cool intro with engine noise or something 😄
Yeah I learned this the hard way cooking a set of Michelin PS4s at a track day by not paying attention to the changes in temperature on the day. Rookie mistake for sure but learned from it
I think you said most of what is relevant to understand a great bit of how the tire pressure thing is going. What is the biggest mistake of many people is that they try to copy tire pressures from other people running their cars. Tire pressure is an individual thing related to the tire, the car, the weight, the driving style etc... The head of my breaks are influencing a lot my tire pressure on the GTR due to the heavy car which dissipates a lot of breaking head. The alignment has also a big influence on tire wear so bad wear on the outside of the tire is not only a matter of too less tire pressure but might also be caused of too less camber. To high camber can result in strong wear on the tire inside especially if running very stiff tire walls like on run flats. It is a very very complex thing to find out the right balance between all the factors. What I would be interested to hear you speak about, is tire temperature on the contact patch. As many tires need to be run in a specific temperature window for working perfectly and deploying max grip without wearing off to fast.
This series is so helpful. Can we get a "daily" tech talk, please? ;)
I would love to try but that’s a lot of work haha
Just kidding. But I am literally waiting for the next one already 😂
right...sell the consulting firm then you have plenty of time for youtube haha
@@RobertMitchell I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with reliability of the cars (including the rental cars). Any recurring issues, upgrades you have had to make, etc. :)
All this tech talk makes me better at setting up my cars on Assetto Corsa haha. All jokes aside big thanks for free education Robert :)
Hehe I guess it should help there too:-)
AC tyre modelling isn't that accurate (according to Aris); and factors like the amount of negative camber, spring and damper rates you are running also impacts the pressures you need. :)
You said what I wanted to hear. " ns2r, front wheel drive, 2,4-2,5 bar" at front.
I was always wondering about the low pressures recommended. It doesn't feel right. Bought a digital tyre pressure tool and a thing to check the temperature on the surface of the tyre. It is exactly how you say.
As a result, I was right. Thanks for the video.
Great talk. Learning can be fun I know now. And a second ralk about tire pressure, hell yeah
Understand the reason for selecting GT2RS wheel for ease of instruction. However I would have selected it because it's the meanest baddest wheel around :)
I love the intelligent and factual no nonsense approach with no gimmicks or bs. Keep it coming! 👍
Thank you!!! We will do our best :-)
Great great content !!! Love to learn from people that actually have their “hands dirty” ... that are on the real world dealing with real situations... 👏👏👏
Thank you for the comment and for checking out the video:-)
Not going to lie, I like your videos as soon as they load and start playing; they’re just guaranteed to be solid gold.
Best guy with proper information 👍
all this info applies to us autocrosser's too. would enjoy another video. I was running the PS4S for two years, which was a great tire for the pacific NW, but you are correct - that tire does need extra pressure to keep happy. I have recently bought the A052's and figure I can run a bit lower pressures because of it being a more performance tire with stiffer sidewalls.
Let me know how it does on the 052!
Hi Robert and the Apex Team, Great job on the Volgs!
As usual Robert, an excellent discussion teaching me things I never knew.... I've never heard anyone explain this...thanx so much!!!! This explains why my '18 NSX requires 38 psi cold. I thought that was quite high, but it's a heavy car at 3800 lbs....now I get it. 😁
Awesome to hear:-).
Thanks again for another profound and entertaining video!
Great to see your enthusiasm for car tech and the support for less experienced drivers.
It would be great if you could show an example with a car from your rental fleet. Pressures at start (i.e. recommended by manufactuer), after warmup lap, and how you would adjust the pressures for the next laps. It's clear that this is also depending on the driver and the speed, but this can give an idea of how it works.
I think we could do that for sure!!!
15:50 wow didnt even think of that... thanks
Interesting facts which can be applied for road use to improve safety and to prolong tire life too.
When you talk about the sunshine affecting pressures,this is why lots of quick drag cars hang cover flaps over the rear slicks while they are waiting in the fire up lanes.
It’s a serious thing to consider !
If you have the time and if there is enough interest, can you make a series called “Apex University.” These tech talks are so in-depth and easy to understand, while making it enjoyable. Keep up the great work, cheers!
Great point about measuring pressure considering the Sun. We've seen 1 bar drop from the hot lap to the the pits.
Very useful. So i can also take from that a car with uneven tyre wear doesnt necessarily have to have suspension or alignment problems. Thanks Robert👍
Correct uneven wear can also be from pressure! Much to balance in a car
alignment issues cause different wear than wrong pressures. pretty easy to detect which one is causing problem by visual inspection.
problems with suspension elements are also causing some specific wear patterns. in fact, if you are a tyre professional, you can learn a lot about tyre, vehicle and driver by just inspecting the tread, sidewalls, bead and inner liner ;) what I learned from my experience is that very few people understand importance of tyres but most of them overestimate bigger engine power. first ones gain a lot of seconds for 0 € spent and latter spend thousands of € to be just slightly faster but visiting their mechanic after every track day .
@@spirod.7076 cheers mate👍
Top technical content as always. Ive been having issues with high tyre pressures as well without being on the track. The cold pressures and in the city were both perfect, but as soon i go to the highway the pressure built by the heat get high enough to increase body roll. So clearly the tyres were running on the center belt.
After allowing the pressures to get down a bit, on lower speed agressive driving, i noticed a bit more lateral flex until the temp gets optimal, after reaching optimal temp the behaviour got better but now on higher speeds the car stays planted.
Was nice to see you talking about uneven pressures when the car is on the sun. Also noticed it. The more log i do, the better the perception is about the tyre dynamics.
cool to see you working the pressures on the road and learning!!!!
Never realised there was this much to tire pressures. Looking forward for the next video!
And since you call it a ''17 minute tire pressure teaser'', I think i might need to get a day off to watch the next video 🤣
It's amazing how much there is to learn about tires and their pressures. From what i've been seeing lately, investing in a pyrometer is probably one of the best things one can do to help with figuring out pressure and camber/toe settings. After going from a soft sidewall street tire to a more aggressive semi slick with stiffer sidewalls, it took me 3 sessions to get the pressures dialed in somewhat close, primarily due to inexperience. The change in tires also was extreme enough to warrant changes to the alignment and even spring rates/damping, but that's way beyong my capabilities.
The Pyrometer should more easily show you shortcomings in both alignment and general pressure settings, it's definitely the next tool i'll purchase.
Keep the knowledge flowing... thanks Robert
Anytime!
Great video and with pointing out all the right things. Amazing to see how much higher the pressures are on the Pista with road legal tyres compared to the 488 Challenge with Tropheo slick. We start ata 1.35-1.4 bar Cold which will easily see them up to past 2.5 bar hot. We bleed them off to operate at 1.8-1.9 bar and maybe different side to side depending on the type an direction of circuit.
Thank you for this! Never thought about the sun shining on the tires would have such a drastic effect!
Would love a part 2 and maybe you could talk a little more about warming up the tires, getting temps under control on a long Nordschleife lap when you feel them going off and how many heatcycles track tires can typically handle.
Thank you! Great content as always.
Just noted this as a cool video idea
@@RobertMitchell bump 😅😉
Robert is best under pressure.
It all gets further complified with staggered tire sizing (not that rare even for stock OE sizing these days), if one looks just on pressures vs weight/load distribution.
From tire pressure related stuff, it's wonderful/easy to use "tool" for small onsite/at track grip bias adjustments, that's easy to revert at that (of course worth making persistent with adjustable roll bars or alignment changes later on).
As for even contact patch, maximizing grip, better tire wear/life, predictable handling, imho as much or even more important then pressures is alignment of car that is optimized for use and often undeservedly left out/ignored, but that's probably worth separate video about.
Yes I even mentioned in the video that this discussion has to assume that your alignment is good as there at many factors there that can create temp Issues
I'd like to hear your thoughts on street tire pressures. Not like for driving in town or highway (where I suppose I should have the pressures recommended by the manufacturer), but for mountain roads and "sporty" driving, with "sporty" road tires like the PS4.
P.s.: I find this tech talks pretty addictive
What type of car?
I’m really enjoying all these tech videos I’m learning a ton! Also helps that you keep referencing the NS2R’s since I just got a set and I’m running them on a Mk3 Jetta Vr6 so front engine fwd.
Who is good with math has an advantage! And that you feel the difference in tire pressure also helps.
Videos like this get me thinking thanks Robert
Awesome to hear!!
Also your tire width and rim width play a role. A tire will have a rim with range for example 7-8 inches, but optimally designed for 7.5 inches. If you run the same tire on a 7 inch rim the side wall will balloon and become soft. If you run the same tire on an 8 rim the side wall becomes stiff giving you a totally different ride. There are so many factors in tires you need to consider.
Here I’m just talking pressures. No matter ein width you still need the right pressure. W that said... Sometimes a wide rim will help stiffen a sidewall as it creates that angle on the sidewall.
I am working on my tire pressures all the time, finally realized that i need more tire pressure on the cup2 on my MK7 TCR, simply i have more weight on the front tire in compare to the rear....but anyway...One of my most seen channels👋🏻😉 great explainations robert
Been waiting all morning for this video. Love your content and keep up the good work 👌🏻
Thank you for the education. You answered alot of questions I had that I never asked about.
Awesome
I’m happy to hear it’s beneficial
I’m happy I found your channel. Very informative. Could you comment on adjustable coilovers. Specifically, Porsche 997C4S, modified track car. The art of best settings for this car, different track conditions. In general, conventional wisdom seems to suggest compression softer and rebound stiffer in front and the reverse, compression stiffer and rebound softer in the rear. Do you agree or do you have a different perspective. Thanks.
Super interesting and helpful! How about a video on tech essentials for a day at the Nordschleife? What to check before you drive, what tools might be helpful to have at hand, things to have an eye on during the day, etc? I think that would be helpful for a lot of people, especially when they bring their road cars to drive.
Maybe we could to that and even apply it to any track day !
Since day 1 of our trackdays we have been keeping record of tyre pressures and temperatures and I am sure we have been working economical with our sets and have influenced times, safety and confidence hugely.
Regarding N2 in tyres, don’t forget that every gas expands the same for a given temperature increase. The temp increase caused by compressing is different for every gas, On a smooth track, main temperature rises are caused by the heat getting in the rubber and wheels, not by the small compressions the gas is experiencing.
Did you also mention about tyre temperature and so pressure for clockwise and anti-clockwise tracks. It could well be that isn’t really an issie on that huge Nordschleiffe, but it is on smaller tracks. Going clockwise with a front driven, front engined car will give you lower temp increase and pressure increase on the righthand side tyre. That wheel is ‘less’ used, ‘less abused’ and On’t get that same amount of heat.
Great video. I can blame my poor lap times on insufficient tyre pressure knowledge rather than ability. When I was at the ring a few years ago in my E90 M3 and it was 37c my tyres greased up by wipperman. I could only do 2 hot(ish) laps due to tyres going off so quickly with 2 bar.
Robert, could you do a technical video on coilovers lifespan, maintenance periods, defects and miscellaneous? Preferred coilovers and why
Have you ever considered running tyre pressure monitors on the Taxis? I think it would be interesting to see how much the pressure changes during a lap.
We have them in the gt2 not in the m3. We know exactly how the pressures change through the laps
Thanks for explaining i always thought that i need to run more tire pressure on the rear in a FF car because the rear isnt doing that much and therefore isnt getting up to temperature that good
Hope it helps! More pressure on a lighter axle will creat a high Spot on the middle and smaller contact patch:-)
Tyre pressure tech talk 2...👌🙏
Loves these tech talks learning so much
Glad you’re enjoying them!!
Robert Mitchell I take it the R&D hours to know the right pressures equates to many hours and laps of the ring regards the feeling of the car..... or would you go on a recommendation in some cases ?
Great info ! Thanks for sharing. Round two anytime !
Never knew there was Soo much into tires.. I mean it's important bc that's what makes contact with the road. I'm beginning to understand why so many ppl with new supercars total them.. they just step on it and go not caring if the tires are warm or the right type
Another great informative video!! Thanks Robert! Very useful information 👍 will be back soon!
Looking forward to that Vincent!!
@@RobertMitchell always welcome to tag along 🙂
I can't wait to receive my diploma from "Robert Mitchell's autosports academy" :)
Hehe
Ready for part two! :)
Thank you for watching and let me know what questions you may have for another round
Hi Robert. what about doing some tests with dry air ? the water can be easily removed with membrain compresed air dryers, mounted on your compressor.
We could but our current set up manages the pressures so well that we don’t have a huge need to try for new Systems. Maybe some day for fun:-)
Please give us more content like this
Will do 100%
In my notes I have that tyre pressure changes approximately a minimum of 1 psi per 5°C depending on moisture content obviously.
Again, a nice informative video 👌 Keep it going Robert!
We will def try to keep it up!! Still learning when and what to post :-)
Thats some next lvl tirepreshure thinking with the sun on the right and shade on the left side :O
I asked Robert on the previous video what tyre pressures they are running and he went on and started an entire tech talk series about them!
That’s service:-)
Very interesting and informative. Thank you, Professor Mitchell. ;)
Thank you for checking in!!!
Fantastic video. Thanks
Great explanation! Love it
Great content Robert! Thank you for doing it despite being so busy.
I have a question for you. How do you handle tire pressure on your taxis? I suppose not every day is a 50+ rounds day so the tires get cold between the laps.
I’ll do that in a q and a. Good question
I have one question, i've got a quite heavy car, and just for road use the manufacturer not only lists different pressures for "empty, and loaded" but for below 250 km/h and above (up to 300). So with a lightly loaded car the front would be 2,3bar the back 2,1 but for speeds above 250, up to 300 it lists around 3 bar front and 2,9 in the back. While i had known most of what you explained, i still can't figure out a reason for that difference. 👍 for the great video! I had people think i am joking when trying to explain the pressure difference due to summer sun exposure. (not for racetrack use, but people who checked their tire pressure after the car sitting half of the day in the sun so only one side got full sun)
the tire is generating heat just from friction and from deformation (internal friction) . The less pressure you have, the more deformation you will have on the contact patch and around it. When you are going very fast, you are deformating the tire more often in a shorter time around that contact patch and the tire will also get bigger due centripetal force (forgive me if i confuse centripetal and centrifugal) which makes the deformation in the other direction bigger. This will generate more heat, than the tire can dissipate to the air around it, even without any heavy friction or slip (there is slip in this scenario, but i thinks its not the "heatmaker" in this case)
Thanks so much, learning lots, thank you!
My pleasure
Thank you Robert for the great content! And recently I am trying to figure out the best setting for toyo r888r on my A45. Tried 2.4 bar last time, but it seems to be too high. Maybe I’ll try 2.0, 2.1 bar next time. Please share some more tips on how to tell whether the tire has the right pressure next time.
dont know if youre going for strictly educational content, but i would like to hear your "must drive" cars and why. ex: e30 m3, lotus exige, etc
14:37 I'm checking my supra's tires pressure right away! I've had this problem for some time but never thought of this.
Thanks! Sub right away
welcome to the channel!!!!! let me know any ideas you may have for vids!
@@RobertMitchell I think GR Yaris is a hot topic now ;)
Brilliant video.
Thank you!!!
After playing with pyrometer and pressure gauge, i can tell you I hate doing it. Its all a bunch of calculated estimation and as the day goes on you are going to make pressure changes. But as long as I have figured out a range in which the tire pressure should be, I just bleed my tires down to that pressure after getting off the track Hot.
Hey man, loving the videos. Could you drive a Kia picanto on the ring. From other reviews I had seen it’s better to drive than the UP and I wanna see what you think.
Hehe we saw one yesterday on track!!! Video w Misha and I hot hatch spotting and we came across a picanto
Robert Mitchell but would it be possible to drive it on the ring with Misha and compare the driving experience to the UP ( in stock form) as I will be choosing between one of the 2 as my first car 🚗
Excellent - well explained! Anyone knows where to go to re-adjust tire pressure after TF? ARAL Adenau or somewhere else?
Yes for example the ED station near Meuspath has air lines for pressure adjustment after tracking!
Very interesting video! I love how you explain the physics behind the matter. It does that you understand the topic.
I learnt a couple of things I do wrong with my tire pressure.
Question: how is the graining related to the tire heat? Do I drive with too low pressure? Too hot? Too cold? Too aggressive? Just right?
Cheers. Love your channel that I just discovered yesterday!
Excellent!! Thank you
My pleasure
This is a really interesting subject. Which is better - heating up the tyres and then reducing the pressures, or reducing the pressures to below normal levels and then letting the tyres heat up, to achieve the "correct" pressures?
I have done many BMW Driver Training sessions on the Ring, and I was surprised to hear that they do the latter - run some laps at below normal pressure so that the tyres heat up and achieve the "right" pressure. That seemed counter-intuitive to me - running at lower pressures would surely cause more sidewall flexing and so more temperature build-up, than the other way around. But does it just end up with the same result as reducing the pressures as tyres heat up?
And don't manufacturers quote higher pressures for more intense use? High speed/high load pressures are higher than standard, presumably to counter the friction caused by tyre wall flexing?
Great info!
I knew some of this but learned a huge amount. How do *you* balance between your tire (tyre) wall stiffness/tire pressure and your suspension ride. Meaning, to keep the car comfortable but quick.
We can go into it but it’s very complex and you have to do it by feel at a certain point
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Damn, you sure you've never worked as a tyre engineer in a race team?!
Are the OEM tyre pressure sensors in some cars accurate enough to use or would you still have to physically measure each tyre before/after going on the track?
Keep the videos coming... loving the in depth details of what goes on behind the scenes..
I start at 25 psi on Pirelli 680 slick cold. And run hot at 30 psi in my 2013 mustang gt race car. 3200 lb car
Cool video 👍🏻
the intelligent man's youtuber :-)
Excellent conversation Robert - thank you. With reference to your mentioning about the effect of the sun on the tires on one side of the car, I find this happening quite a bit on mine.
You have a unique vantage point, being steward of a number of cars that you track regularly. Do you find that the handling of some of your cars is more sensitive to tire pressure differentials than others? (In my 964 differences in tire pressure, esp. the fronts are clearly noticeable.) Do you check your pressures before & after every lap? Do the tires on the heavier cars change pressure more significantly than the lighter ones.
Hi, Robert
Which brand of tires, COP 2 R or EAGLE F1 SUPERSPORT RS, will give the fastest time on a dry track. As the tires are mounted on GT2RS MR, PISTA. Thanks!
Would you " finesse " tyre pressures after the chassis adjustments are set?
I guess more fixed points you can keep (rebound,compression etc) the better it is to only adjust the minimum of things ,so is the tyre pressure the last thing in the " chain" of adjusting or dialling in the car.
You sort of have to do it all together. You’ll find that the pressure is sometimes easiest to set hehe
Great video! Do you do any type of temperature monitoring i.e. with pyrometers or sensors? This is really the only true way to dial in the pressures and alignment for a specific car and tire compound.
In the video I actually talk about this;-)
Tyre pressure. A science for itself.
I once spun and nearly crashed because I thought it was a good idea to run 1.6 BAR in a Federal 595 RS-R .
Was a good lesson though....
Yeah I think it was a lucky lesson
@@RobertMitchell It was at the auto slalom so I wasn't really fast, still came pretty close to one of those concrete bunkers the Air Force parks their planes in.
I had a few spinners in the auto slalom but I learned so much since you are in a a state of weigt transition nearly all the time.
That knowledge even saved my butt a few times on the Nordschleife. ;)
PFCKruger sits great you learned from to!!!! How often you getting to the ring?
@@RobertMitchell That is what mistakes are there for, right? ;)
For driving I try to be there once a month and do some laps. Did four laps last sunday.
Since last year I started working as a track marshall on the side so I can be at the Nurburgring more often.
So usually two to four times a month, at the moment a little bit less for the known reasons.
Good video
Good comment
Good thread
I feel like Dunning Kruger just told me to go check my tyre pressures.
If you ask me.... you should run two bar of pressure.
i guess low tire pressures first came from F1, where tires have so much rubber that having less pressure, and high downforce increases contact patch of the tire.
thoughts about weight of tire itself and a comparison would be cool
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Hi Robert, great content as always. Could you please tell me what hot tire pressures would you run on the Nurbugring on a C63 with PSS/P4S 245 40 18 fronts and 265 40 18 rears?
Have been getting conflicting answers so hope you clear it up for me, thanks a lot!
Robert, thank you for your videos. What are/will run on a Jaguar Project 8 with Cup2 & R?
What's the best tire will be for the project 8 as well? Thank you for sharing your experiences. Max
The main thing about tire pressure is the heat management. If you don't overdrive the car heavily, more pressure can mean colder temperatures. this is something I consider very important, especially, many people overheat their tires. There are many semi slicks which do not really work good above 60°C. But no one believes it. And then there are the guys Running 90°C running 2 bar in a ultraheavy f82 M4. This is dangerous :(
But a question: Do you have problems of AR1s spinning on the rim when you run to low tire pressure (something like 2 bars). i'm constantly balancing my wheel because the tires move. Maybe the wheels are the problem, but it was very confusing until i marked the valve position on the tire. And no im not running something super heavy and powerful with 1.5 bar :D
100% on tire heat management. Yes. Sadly spinning the ar1 on all cars is a problem with 2 bar. You have to be careful til things are warm....
@@RobertMitchell thank you for the answer