I have watched all your videos and I have 2 statements to make: 1. Your method of violin making is certainly the one that seems to follow the ones of the great violin makers from the past! 2. Thank you for your soul that is making possible for us to see such interesting and amazing things!
It is great explanation of method for acoustic instrument. I agree that plates do not need to be perfect measuring, but the finger board, bridge and tail must be exact in millimeters because of violinists. thank you
Hi Peter I found your bit about science quite interesting. As a student/scientist, let me just say that I don't think your method is all that unscientific, actually. I wouldn't call any method I've seen scientific as such, but yours simply measures a different factor than those based on shape or pitch. I don't agree that science is all about numbers and certain quantities, because that way we couldn't ever scientifically examine anything new, simply because it is something new that we don't kow about... That's the topic for a much larger discussion somewhere else of course, but the point is, science allows uncertainty, as long as you are aware of it. You are essentially working after a theory you have made based on observing that violin archings seem to have this certain characteristic. The nature of a theory is that it is good until disproven, so for now I would say you can almost call your method a valid theory in some sense. Of course there is more to it, but we'll leave that for now. You accept the fact that you don't know the characteristics of the wood and why it turns out a certain shape etc., and that is fine. You are aware of it, and that might be an area of research to one day be able to predict the shape based on the wood structure. I bet with your 400 instruments, if you were able to 3D-scan the plates, analyse the wood and maybe provide a somewhat exact measurement of the scratch/rub/brush tone, you could actually make a very good training set for an algorithm which could then with time learn to generate a 3D shape based on grain structure and send that off to a CNC router to cut the plate. It wouldn't be perfect, but certainly a very interesting thought! Now, I don't like the idea much compared to the current practice of violin making, and as a musician I would much rather have a hand made instrument, as a craftman I wouldn't want to hand out one of the more enjoyable parts of making a violin to a machine. The only reason I write all this is that I've heard you say a few times that you don't care about the science behind all this as long as it works, yet I see you working a bit more scientifically than you seem to think. I have tried your method, and it annoys me greatly that it seems to work. Not because I dislike it or anything, but because I don't understand why it works. To me, a sound must be generated by a vibrating object, and I can't figure out how the tone can be determined by the outer shape independently of the mass, thickness node points etc., and certainly not how it changes based on which side of the piece you're on... I'm not great with physics, so I probably won't ever understand it, but I sure find it fascinating and will continue thinking about it! I'm not sure if you find all this rambling interesting at all, but I have throroughly enjoyed your videos on the violin! I hope I'll get to try one of your cellos some day, as I'm very interested to see if they behave differently than cellos made with more "conventional" methods. Best regards, Tobias
Thank you for your interesting thoughts. Concerning my dismissal of the science, it is a not a strict opinion of mine, but a way of regarding some comments from the science-buffs that needs to have proof before going into the "wilderness of the unknown". Being an ex-math- and chemistry-teacher I have a pretty good relation to science as well. :)
Ah, that makes sense then! And yes, I understand what you mean... Some people aren't very daring and/or are very loyal to their beliefs and feel almost violated when presented with new ideas. I may sometimes appear like that when asking questions, but really I'm just quite curious and might not always have the ability to try out everything for myself. I will say, I didn't use my best pieces of wood to try out your method, and I'm glad I didn't because I think I made a bit of a mistake on the top. I won't be able to tell how it would work on a really nice piece of wood of course, but I might get an idea and at least be able to practice. Actually, do you know of any luthier around Copenhagen who has one of your cellos currently? I visited Ulf Eriksson a month or so ago, and I think he had one, but it was on loan. Unfortunately for me, nice for you ;-)
I think the existence of wolf tones in some of history's most celebrated instruments is a clue that you are onto something. It makes perfect sense that uniformity of pitch is more important than the frequency of the pitch itself. Makers like Stradivari and Guarneri del Gesu were certainly skilled enough to prevent wolf tones, but perhaps that wasn't the priority. If they let the wood determine the outcome, rather than measurements, then they wouldn't be aiming for (or avoiding) any particular pitch. That would make the occurrence of a wolf tone not an error in workmanship but more a byproduct of letting each piece of wood lead the way.
Wolves are bad, whether it is on a x-million dollar violin or a junk violin. My experience is that the interplay between fingerboard resonance and body resonance is a major player there.
@@adelkharisov No, it is taken away from the under side. Try to separate the air tone from the finger board tone. If they are too close they "take turns on vibrating". This causes the wolf.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 thank you and sorry, cause I meant under side of the fingerboard for sure. English is not my native language. I asked, because some luthiers told me that ebony is so neutral wood, that they do not have to tune the ebony parts, just scoop the fingerboard until the neck to make it lighter and form a rigid U-shape structure, that will prevent neck from bending.
@@adelkharisov Well, neutral or not, it does not matter as everything hard enough can be forced to vibrate. The fingerboard as well as the tailpiece vibrates quite a bit.
Maestro, I have a questions about the ‘tones’ of the plates: every plate has its own tone. And the tone is not interesting. But what is the difference in tone between the top and back plate? Do you respect the about 1,5 tone in difference? And in another video you take away material to even the tone of the outer and inner sides. Do you than also get the thickness pattern like the ones of Guarneri, which you showed from the book? Thank you!
I stribe to get the pitch the same in both top and back. If you get a difference, my guess is that the highest spot on one of the plates is too high. You can detect that by rubbing or tapping from the underside along the center joint. If the pitch goes up, when passing through the middle section, it is left too highly arched. The answer to your second question is -Yes! I do.
why is it that when you say higher, i hear a lower pitch sound? if you download an app called master violin tuner and tap the wood at about one feet away from the phone, it gives you a pitch reading. when i tapped a wood at one place it gave me 612 hz and at another 580...so to me the 580 is lower. but in your videos it sounds the other way around. could you test this and revert pls? thanks
I have had this remark from several people. A scientist had theories about it being a microphone issue. I have also had people in my workshop claiming that the tones were the opposite but I hear what I hear. A sign of being right is that when you spot a place where it is "higher" pitch and you take away wood, it comes to sound as the adjecent parts. If it was the other way around, the removal of wood should increase the gap in tones.
Can someone with a background in acoustics please explain how taking material away lowers the tap tone? Maybe I'm being dim, but this seems counterintuitive. Normally we associate less mass with a higher tone, which is why an E string is many times lighter than a G string.
Seeing it as mass, it should be as you suggested. However, I see it as a surface, where a bulge is like a hill to climb, which takes more energy. A high-pitch spot is like an "arc on an arc" which "comes to rest" if just the main arc is un-troubled and the extra bulge is removed.
Thanks again for this expressive series. May i ask you for video instructions of your way of set up and sound adjustment? I`d like to hear your No 400! Another question: is the plane you use for rough arching a unique made plane or is it available in a shop?
Thank you very much for this saga of violin making; it was extremely interesting. If you make another series someday, could you please talk about the characteristics of the different viola models you use, and your thought process in designing your own model?
Thank you very much for making these series of videos. I have been trying to obtain some of the stains you use, I find them but am having difficulty in purchasing them. Would it be possible to leave a link to your supplier? Hopefully you will be showing more violin videos 👍👍👍 I forgot to say it’s the German stain Complex Farben Complett that is difficult. I have found a web page showing the colours available but cannot seem to be able to place an order. Perhaps I am a little stupid anyway hope you can help thank you.
Westerlunds Violinverkstad AB Peter Westerlund I am in England and the web site was the manufacturer of the stain and it seemed you had to buy it from elsewhere and not directly from them.
Muito interessante sua teoria / método. Resolve mistérios envolvidos aos grandes mestres. Será que depois deles se perpetuou e se perpetuará um metodo errado de construir? Vou intentar traduzir. Very interesting your theory. Resolv misthery envolving great masters. Is it possible that after masters , a wrong method in perpetuum occur? Your videos can change this perhaps.
I don´t claim to have found "Strad´s secret". I am just fascinated by this method, as it brings the same "result" without slavishly copy. I still think that there are many more things to find on this path.
I have watched all your videos and I have 2 statements to make:
1. Your method of violin making is certainly the one that seems to follow the ones of the great violin makers from the past!
2. Thank you for your soul that is making possible for us to see such interesting and amazing things!
Thanks!
Thank you Peter, appreciate very much your sharing of your method !
I can't thank you enough for this series.
Thank you very much for this very interesting series. I hope we will get to hear the finished violin!
It will come up shortly.
It is great explanation of method for acoustic instrument. I agree that plates do not need to be perfect measuring, but the finger board, bridge and tail must be exact in millimeters because of violinists. thank you
Thank you !!!
Hi Peter
I found your bit about science quite interesting. As a student/scientist, let me just say that I don't think your method is all that unscientific, actually. I wouldn't call any method I've seen scientific as such, but yours simply measures a different factor than those based on shape or pitch. I don't agree that science is all about numbers and certain quantities, because that way we couldn't ever scientifically examine anything new, simply because it is something new that we don't kow about... That's the topic for a much larger discussion somewhere else of course, but the point is, science allows uncertainty, as long as you are aware of it.
You are essentially working after a theory you have made based on observing that violin archings seem to have this certain characteristic. The nature of a theory is that it is good until disproven, so for now I would say you can almost call your method a valid theory in some sense. Of course there is more to it, but we'll leave that for now.
You accept the fact that you don't know the characteristics of the wood and why it turns out a certain shape etc., and that is fine. You are aware of it, and that might be an area of research to one day be able to predict the shape based on the wood structure. I bet with your 400 instruments, if you were able to 3D-scan the plates, analyse the wood and maybe provide a somewhat exact measurement of the scratch/rub/brush tone, you could actually make a very good training set for an algorithm which could then with time learn to generate a 3D shape based on grain structure and send that off to a CNC router to cut the plate. It wouldn't be perfect, but certainly a very interesting thought!
Now, I don't like the idea much compared to the current practice of violin making, and as a musician I would much rather have a hand made instrument, as a craftman I wouldn't want to hand out one of the more enjoyable parts of making a violin to a machine. The only reason I write all this is that I've heard you say a few times that you don't care about the science behind all this as long as it works, yet I see you working a bit more scientifically than you seem to think.
I have tried your method, and it annoys me greatly that it seems to work. Not because I dislike it or anything, but because I don't understand why it works. To me, a sound must be generated by a vibrating object, and I can't figure out how the tone can be determined by the outer shape independently of the mass, thickness node points etc., and certainly not how it changes based on which side of the piece you're on... I'm not great with physics, so I probably won't ever understand it, but I sure find it fascinating and will continue thinking about it!
I'm not sure if you find all this rambling interesting at all, but I have throroughly enjoyed your videos on the violin! I hope I'll get to try one of your cellos some day, as I'm very interested to see if they behave differently than cellos made with more "conventional" methods.
Best regards, Tobias
Thank you for your interesting thoughts. Concerning my dismissal of the science, it is a not a strict opinion of mine, but a way of regarding some comments from the science-buffs that needs to have proof before going into the "wilderness of the unknown". Being an ex-math- and chemistry-teacher I have a pretty good relation to science as well. :)
Ah, that makes sense then! And yes, I understand what you mean... Some people aren't very daring and/or are very loyal to their beliefs and feel almost violated when presented with new ideas. I may sometimes appear like that when asking questions, but really I'm just quite curious and might not always have the ability to try out everything for myself.
I will say, I didn't use my best pieces of wood to try out your method, and I'm glad I didn't because I think I made a bit of a mistake on the top. I won't be able to tell how it would work on a really nice piece of wood of course, but I might get an idea and at least be able to practice.
Actually, do you know of any luthier around Copenhagen who has one of your cellos currently? I visited Ulf Eriksson a month or so ago, and I think he had one, but it was on loan. Unfortunately for me, nice for you ;-)
@@Tostra1997 I can help you, but it is a delicate thing to leave names here. If you contact me on FB or mail I shall see what I can do.
Oh yes, this is not exactly the place. I'll leave you a message on FB :-)
I think the existence of wolf tones in some of history's most celebrated instruments is a clue that you are onto something. It makes perfect sense that uniformity of pitch is more important than the frequency of the pitch itself. Makers like Stradivari and Guarneri del Gesu were certainly skilled enough to prevent wolf tones, but perhaps that wasn't the priority. If they let the wood determine the outcome, rather than measurements, then they wouldn't be aiming for (or avoiding) any particular pitch. That would make the occurrence of a wolf tone not an error in workmanship but more a byproduct of letting each piece of wood lead the way.
Wolves are bad, whether it is on a x-million dollar violin or a junk violin. My experience is that the interplay between fingerboard resonance and body resonance is a major player there.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 does it mean that you tune fingerboard somehow by taking away material from the outer side?
@@adelkharisov No, it is taken away from the under side. Try to separate the air tone from the finger board tone. If they are too close they "take turns on vibrating". This causes the wolf.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 thank you and sorry, cause I meant under side of the fingerboard for sure. English is not my native language.
I asked, because some luthiers told me that ebony is so neutral wood, that they do not have to tune the ebony parts, just scoop the fingerboard until the neck to make it lighter and form a rigid U-shape structure, that will prevent neck from bending.
@@adelkharisov Well, neutral or not, it does not matter as everything hard enough can be forced to vibrate. The fingerboard as well as the tailpiece vibrates quite a bit.
Maestro, I have a questions about the ‘tones’ of the plates: every plate has its own tone. And the tone is not interesting. But what is the difference in tone between the top and back plate? Do you respect the about 1,5 tone in difference?
And in another video you take away material to even the tone of the outer and inner sides. Do you than also get the thickness pattern like the ones of Guarneri, which you showed from the book? Thank you!
I stribe to get the pitch the same in both top and back. If you get a difference, my guess is that the highest spot on one of the plates is too high. You can detect that by rubbing or tapping from the underside along the center joint. If the pitch goes up, when passing through the middle section, it is left too highly arched.
The answer to your second question is -Yes! I do.
Thank you
why is it that when you say higher, i hear a lower pitch sound? if you download an app called master violin tuner and tap the wood at about one feet away from the phone, it gives you a pitch reading. when i tapped a wood at one place it gave me 612 hz and at another 580...so to me the 580 is lower. but in your videos it sounds the other way around. could you test this and revert pls? thanks
I have had this remark from several people. A scientist had theories about it being a microphone issue. I have also had people in my workshop claiming that the tones were the opposite but I hear what I hear. A sign of being right is that when you spot a place where it is "higher" pitch and you take away wood, it comes to sound as the adjecent parts. If it was the other way around, the removal of wood should increase the gap in tones.
Can someone with a background in acoustics please explain how taking material away lowers the tap tone? Maybe I'm being dim, but this seems counterintuitive. Normally we associate less mass with a higher tone, which is why an E string is many times lighter than a G string.
Seeing it as mass, it should be as you suggested. However, I see it as a surface, where a bulge is like a hill to climb, which takes more energy. A high-pitch spot is like an "arc on an arc" which "comes to rest" if just the main arc is un-troubled and the extra bulge is removed.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 Once again, thanks for your generous insights!
Thanks again for this expressive series.
May i ask you for video instructions of your way of set up and sound adjustment? I`d like to hear your No 400!
Another question: is the plane you use for rough arching a unique made plane or is it available in a shop?
Thanks for your kind words.
Sound samples are coming.
The plane is made by Mr Tommy Jakobsson. You can mail him at info@violin.se
Thank you very much for this saga of violin making; it was extremely interesting. If you make another series someday, could you please talk about the characteristics of the different viola models you use, and your thought process in designing your own model?
Thank you! It may be a challenge to tell what the heck is going on in my brain when designing a viola.. :)
Thank you very much for making these series of videos. I have been trying to obtain some of the stains you use, I find them but am having difficulty in purchasing them. Would it be possible to leave a link to your supplier? Hopefully you will be showing more violin videos 👍👍👍 I forgot to say it’s the German stain Complex Farben Complett that is difficult. I have found a web page showing the colours available but cannot seem to be able to place an order. Perhaps I am a little stupid anyway hope you can help thank you.
I guess it depends a bit on where you live. I ordered from Hesse Lignal in Germany and got served from a Danish company.
Westerlunds Violinverkstad AB Peter Westerlund I am in England and the web site was the manufacturer of the stain and it seemed you had to buy it from elsewhere and not directly from them.
Muito interessante sua teoria / método. Resolve mistérios envolvidos aos grandes mestres. Será que depois deles se perpetuou e se perpetuará um metodo errado de construir? Vou intentar traduzir. Very interesting your theory. Resolv misthery envolving great masters. Is it possible that after masters , a wrong method in perpetuum occur? Your videos can change this perhaps.
I don´t claim to have found "Strad´s secret". I am just fascinated by this method, as it brings the same "result" without slavishly copy. I still think that there are many more things to find on this path.