I'm so glad you pointed this out! I started to avoid bachata parties, a lot of guys use sensual bachata to get too close. When I tell them politely to not do certain moves and explain how it makes me feel they all say "you have to relax". I hate this sentence it's disrespectful to not accept a woman's no. I prefer parties where they dance salsa as well, I feel the salsa scene is much more grounded and polite, maybe because people there are older. Would love to hear more rant videos from you :)
I understand, it sounds so condescending when somebody says relax......😡 Yes I think I cant stop now since I started this conversation, I will continue it 😍.
Omg. Now I’m even more convinced that the first thing they should teach a new student is Honoring boundaries with absolute RESPECT. Sorry about these shitty experiences 😩
Thank you for talking about this! I started my dance journey from bachata at age 19 and didn’t realize how unique the space that I went to social in was (a lot of different ages and pretty much always the same people) and bachata was amazing! sensual moves were used as accents and suited the music. I moved recently and tried to go to socials and classes in a lot of places and I absolutely hated it. I felt so uncomfortable with the leaders, not staying on beat, doing only body waves and bending moves. I stopped going to bachata all together, it feels like a completely different dance, I’m just sticking to kizomba and salsa now
I think I know what you mean... As a leader I used to love bachata in general and sensual but now I don't like to dance sensual songs anymore. I still love bachata songs but I started to avoid sensual songs, now I much rather dance a salsa romantica, kizomba or dominican or a normal bachata. Maybe it's just me getting older but I started to find it a bit vulgar while I see other dances much more elegant and ejoyable.
I agree with everything said. I stopped going to sensual bachata socials for a while, but I do enjoy the dance for its grace and sensuality when done tastefully.
So delighted to hear you talk about this. I used to love dancing bachata and with the popularity of the sensual genre I started to not like it as much. I agree, more people who are uncomfortable with the intensity of the sexuality should openly discuss this. One of the reasons i got into the Latin dances was to stay away from lap dancing that was in the regular night clubs. Now, it’s sad to see how Latin dancing is becoming more and more associated with sexuality. And how about the kids whom we’re trying to attract and teach Latin dancing? Is this kind of sexual dancing we should teach them? We already live in a world full of sexuality and profanity. Thanks for the wisdom you share with us❤️
I do think you are spot on about the culture. I love Sensual bachata and I started out with it, but I realise in some places you really find the leads who just want to touch up a woman. They have their face right in your ear. I think it's the teachers and organisers responsibility to address this in their classes. I go to Bachata musketeers, and they are a very good at telling the leads like DON'T touch your follower here and DON'T stroke her face etc etc. I love the dance because it is sexy but there are definitely levels..and if I'm dancing with someone I know is just there for the dance, I feel more at ease and feel sexier! I think also this is the case in a lot of places, the beginners groups are usually the worst because there you will find the people who just think "omg this is a great way to get close to a woman" whereas when you get more advanced those people usually aren't so dedicated so drop off and you get the more serious dancers.
Wery good point ! Thank you for your input 😉. And yes beginners level so important, that's really where so much of dance culture should be tought and appropriate behaviour 😇
Thank you for this discussion! We have the same issues here in the US, exactly. It’s depends a lot who you dance with, where/venue, and who trained them how to lead.
Thank you for talking about things that not many people voice on social media, but many people are thinking! I think boundaries are SO important to discuss. As a follow sometimes it’s easy to doubt yourself when it comes to standing in your convictions without feeling “rigid” when really, dance should be a conversation. It should actually be the number one thing. I first was attracted to bachata for the music, I never saw a video on you tube or anything, and your right, if I saw what is popular now it would have definitely NOT wanted to dance it. I originally hated salsa and just went dancing for bachata because the music spoke to my heart so much, but now I actually appreciate salsa as its refreshingly light. Sometimes bachata and kizomba can feel too SERIOUS, like the heart is missing. Also, a lot of “bachata dancers” now have literally skipped a level. They just went straight into the sensual stuff and don’t even keep the timing. Or they don’t seem to have respect for the music itself. I could go on and on 😑 And as far as the relationship thing goes, when I first got into one , it was very weird to dance like that, however, now we don’t think much about it because we’ve had some honest conversations and have reached a place of understanding and trust with each other, and dancing bachata is just dancing bachata now. All and all, I think we need to start a boundary revolution ✊
Another dancer I know told me this and I make him right, that the Sensual Bachata, nicked it's moves from the Brazilian Zouk. So now we have a hybrid dance made of two different sexy dances so the sexy has been doubled 😂 the younger lot haven’t found out what a boundary is let alone what their own boundaries are yet. Messy situation but here we are, if you can't communicate your boundaries with your energy alone then communication is the only way like Raza says. Keep the rants coming Raza, your knowledge and insights are incredibly valuable ❤🤗 Xx
MORE RASA RANTS!!! I seem to be having more conversations with friends about this now more than ever. I agree with your points so to add my personal observations. You have 2 elements, first and correctly so, teachers who are coming up and trying to stand out more. Its simple, sex sells more easily particularly to a younger crowd. Already internationally popular teachers a lot of them are couples and therefore don't dance with the same boundaries and also perform more than social dance in their demos. So with everything on social media now how do you stand out? You make things super sexual. Second is society in general, I think people are more so lacking boundaries when it comes to their behaviour and therefore expressing their sensuality on the dance floor. They see these super sexual moves think it's hot and amazing, they want some of that, and want to jump into the deep end. That amplifies the creepiness. Actually writing this I have a 3rd point. Lack of training. You mentioned lack of etiquette being taught. I come across so few teachers that highlight etiquette in their classes. But also so many dancers rush blindly with their learning. Sensual bachata led and followed poorly is so uncomfortable, it just feels like you are awkwardly bumping bodies. The sensual bachata technique takes TIME to get it right. So spend more time learning it from a fundamental level to then be more comfortable dancing. My rant is over now. Thank you if you made it to the end 😜
I made it till the end , and i always love your input, you are such a lovely dancer and very insightful teacher so proud of you 👏 And let's continue ranting 😅
Totally agree about the social media, sex sells, simple as that. But it's bad when somebody don't have right training trying to do that, bad sensual bachata is 🤢, think I have to start making excuse that I only dance Dominican if that continues 😂
and this: "They see these super sexual moves think it's hot and amazing" , not just on social media, in real life, they see something on the dance floor and want to repeat it - maybe it was just between that two people or it could be super uncomfortable you just don't see it by watching, or even they see me dancing with one lead who can do great moves and want to repeat it but it's bad pffff 😤
Absolutely agree. I am married with 2 kids. My husband doesn’t dance but trusts me to go out and enjoy my dance nights (I made it clear from the start that I found dancing before him and needed to keep dance in my life ❤️). I love the sound of bachata music and its rhythm. However, if I don’t think my husband or my girls would be comfortable seeing me dance a certain way with someone else, I won’t do it. Sadly, this means that I’ve given up bachata. Maybe there should be a new type of bachata? “Classy bachata” may sound too judgmental (and possibly repressed!), but something along those lines. When inviting someone to dance, indicate sensual or classy (or whatever the label becomes) and expectations are clear and the person invited to dance can respond accordingly???
That is a very cool idea, just difficult to execute between the world, but an option could be to wear smth that says in bachata do not touch my face, or I don't like Sensual or smth like that 🤣🤣🤣
I started dancing 10 years ago but took a 5 year break when I had my daughter. When I returned this year I was amazed at how much sensual has taken over. It is not my style, I don't enjoy it, it makes me feel uncomfortable and I resent how, as a follow I just am expected to dance the sensual moves. I choose to avoid any bachata rooms now and I REALLY miss dancing Dominican style. I would love to see dedicated Dominican socials and Dominican style bachata rooms at congresses. Also - I agree that sensual is dominated by younger people. I am 38 and have a 6 year old daughter. I hope she will join the latin dance scene one day - but NOT if sensual bachata continues to dominate because I think it opens the door for leads to take all kinds of advantages.
Thanks Rasa, totally agree that there are definite boundaries and inappropriate touching like you mentioned is definitely not on. It's the teacher's responsibility to teach not just the moves but the culture, nobody wants to have an uncomfortable experience on the dance floor. Having said that, I've not seen this happening but I'm an older Yorkshire country bumpkin, that might be the reason.🤔
Yes I think these things happen mote in big cities and big congresses. I learned my dancing in Leeds , so I was brought up I a mixed loving sceen, big screens tend yo lack that 😇
Great observations but I'd LOVE to hear more RASA RANTS, PLEASE! I personally didn't know there was a Sensual Bacharach movement and for that I'm grateful that I'm in a committed relationship cuz it sounds like "personal boundaries" are getting crossed and/or blurred. Educating the younger dancers sound great, since it looks like they're lacking direction (just my opinion). -San Francisco fan girl
I think that's the thing, too many trying to be what they think is sexy, rather then stop being sexy and just be themselves and trying to connect.. its not suppose to be about being sexy 💗
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic Rasa! You are true and honest and I deeply appreciate it. I totally agree with all of the arguments and thoughts in your video. I find myself avoiding the bachata parties lately because of the too sensual moves the leaders usually use. Leaders usually get into close position too soon in the dance (often from the first move) and they use only body movement with barely steps in between. This make me feel uncomfortable and somehow like loosing my freedom while dancing. Just my thoughts 😸
I had a conversation with someone about some of this and a lot of it lead back to not feeling like people spend enough time on understanding connection, limits and communication. So, now that I have some time and experience with different instructors, I have learned there are certain things I don't like about how certain teachers teach and definitely things I feel people don't spend enough time on. I remember two things in particular from what my first Salsa teacher said. The first thing was, Leads don't tell the follows what to do, they ask them. The second things was, if a follow isn't following sometimes you just have to force them through the turn or crossbody lead. I very much agree with the first one but I feel like the second one is contradicting of the first statement and quite frankly unnecessarily aggressive. Recently at conference, someone was showing some more sensual moves for a style called Zouk and his response to people that seemed uncomfortable was something along the lines of "this is how it is, respect the dance" I learned at that moment, I do not like the phrase "respect the dance." At least not in that context. I am all for respecting the dances and the cultures but it just felt like he was saying "respect the dance, not necessarily your partners." It honestly seemed like he was saying "if you're uncomfortable, get over it." Those two things got me thinking more about the concept of "Leads don't tell the follows what to do they ask them." So I always try and lead with the concept that if I am truly asking and not telling, I should always be leaving them a way out when possible. This means not only is the follow trying to understand my intent I am trying to understand their response (or lack there of) to my intent. This means I have to not just have an understanding of what my body is doing, but theirs as well. I wish there was more focus on that. So for example, if I am trying to go into shadow position and they aren't feeling it or don't understand my lead and decide to go into a full turn I adjust accordingly instead of forcing through it. Hopefully after a few measures I've learned a few things about my partner and can start thinking "Okay, they either don't feel comfortable or don't know shadow position and they don't seem to comfortable with being too close. Okay I won't attempt to do isolations or body rolls or anything that requires really close contact." That said, maybe the next person I dance with is a bit more comfortable doing more things and I'll be the one who has to set limits. Point is, the communication should be two ways and not just one person going, get comfortable cause we're doing things. I'm pretty liberal so I don't really care how people dance with each other as long as the two of them connecting with each other in a way that is not one sided. But instead of normalizing "I know you're uncomfortable but respect the dance" we should normalize No means no and that you can still have a good dance even if you keep everything basic as long as the two of you connect to each other on some level. I will also say that some of the instructors do need to emphasize that not every move you see them do is appropriate for everyone on the dance floor. Some of the more sexy moves you might see them do with each other, they are doing with their spouse or significant other and probably wouldn't do that with just anybody.
@@FFOndra big thank you for really taking your time with your comment, few thing that really stood out for me and I think you are spot on with the taking time and connecting. If 2 people are on the same boat its nice, but one has to allow another to get there,or not 😉. Yes there's too many teachers coming up with no mentoring no higher understanding of what the sceen is about so their struggling to teach the behaviour side by side the moves 💗
Thanks for raising this issue Rasa. Personally, I think people should be expecting quite suggestive moves from a style with the word “sensual” in it. The lyrics are often provocative themselves talking about friends with benefits (amigos con derechos), sleeping together and other romantic themes (which has been the case for the past decade) so anyone not comfortable with that is free to try moderna, traditional, salsa or ballroom dance to name a few other styles. HOWEVER, having said this, setting boundaries and having them be respected is so important especially in an already close dance. I think the problems you mention arise from NEWER not necessarily “young” dancers who have perhaps seen viral videos of Daniel&Desiree and now think they can touch any woman’s face 😂🤦🏽♀️ or are going to these classes solely for “dating” purposes. We need to encourage more open conversations in ALL levels of classes about appropriate touching and the importance of saying no if you feel uncomfortable, I think it’s especially important for women but also for men!!! Some teachers are definitely starting to do more sensual moves and wear more revealing outfits too but that’s because of the demand and a reflection of our image-focused society, the impact of social media (possible opportunities to go viral and get sponsorships/payment which is invaluable in this career) and the interpretation of the saucy lyrics. I agree sensual bachata is pulling in a young crowd at the moment but I’m not sure how many married couples would want their other half intimately dancing with a stranger with a song about “let’s not tell anyone” in the background 😂 nor would I personally want to be doing crazy dips in my 50s. Thanks for reading xx
I also think the lockdowns may have stunted our personal interactions more which is translating on the dance floor. In addition, just another personal opinion, bachata seems to have a faster learning curve/easier to progress than salsa which may be another factor towards younger crowds (the instant gratification).
I started dancing 8 years ago and a lot of these new trends make me so happy that I have my husband as a dancing partner because I would feel uncomfortable with so much intimacy dancing with a stranger
Completely agree. I started dancing 3.5 years ago and I notice a big difference from then. Last time I tried to disuede some inappropriate behavior (literal waist massaging) by saying "not too close" and I was reprimanded by the lead, he said "it was fine". The dance ended and I haven't been back to that social.
Do not let these experiences stop you from enjoying bachata, I know its annoying and hard but I remember how it used to be and I believe if we make a stand we can bring some of the balance back , I can't do it on my own 😅😅😅😅
Yes, yes yes, we need more talks. Definitely, I am having more men [often over 40 or early 20] who try sensual from the very start, and really don't give a f about whether the music is Dominican or else. Also, I have more and more cases when people try to touch my neck, or go forehead to forehead, copying those teachers who do that for the show. I also feel that the teachers don't teach safety and boundaries! I mean I met some great teachers who put safety in the first place as with the sensual we trust our neck, and spine to the leader and many leaders just don't know those rules. I am still not sure if I was harrassed on one kizomba or that was part of strange kizomba. I went to the party, I wanted to dance a bit kizomba, I took classes for 1 months, we were doing walking, steps etc. The guy at the party had me like for 15 mins in the close position for what probably was more like a rubbing his hips with mine, we did a few walks but it was just standing in one place. That time I thought it was some sensual kizomba as he was moving extremely smooth but now I think it was not.
I don’t mind forehead touching for certain moments with a lead that has shown me he is highly respectful and it’s just part of the vibe - but this is rare and only with people I have known for long time.
I remember the small bachata room at the old Salsamania was always dark and sparse because that's where ppl would go to get jiggy. Now bachata has blown up because now we have tons if social media promoting sexual partner dancing where everyone thinks this easy dance is gonna look like these pro dancers.. Sex sells!! I have politely denied bachata dances and have been told to F off more than once. SMH I'm in a serious relationship and my partner gets sexual advances from women about 90% of the time. Sometimes in front of me. So we both have stopped dancing with other ppl because of too much bad behavior. 😢
I think the emerging Sensual Bachata scene is a culture shock to those of us who have been in the existing latin dance scene for some time. On the surface, there are several things that immediately stick out to me - 1) college age/young adult crowd 2) a lot of songs sung in English 3) the overtly flirtatiousness of the dance. I think that 1) is a *byproduct* of 2) and 3). Rasa mentions that 1) is a red flag for her, but for me 2) is the real red flag. I noticed that a lot of the music is remixed American/Latin pop music, so it's no surprise that it appeals to a younger crowd. I agree with Rasa that there is a lot of technique in Sensual, and it can be just as fun and expressive as Salsa or Bachata when both partners have a high level of training. But as Rasa said, those who were turned off by 3) left and never got to that level, and those who remain reinforce the Sensual Bachata cultural norms that many of us don't care for. So what is the big deal? If you don't like it, don't do it, right? I think the reaction we're having has to do with the perception that Sensual is "taking over". In my scene, the Sensual movement has *a lot* of momentum coming out of the covid-19 restrictions. So what are we to do? Sit and complain about it? No, I think the responsibility of us who have experience in Salsa/Bachata is to *dance with beginners* and show them a good time whenever possible. This way we don't lose them to the gravitational forces of Sensual, or lose them altogether if Sensual isn't for them. Unless we actively protect Salsa/Bachata by recruiting new dancers, I think there is a very real risk that Sensual does take over (in areas where there isn't a high concentration of Latin people anyway).
Great rant! Exactly what a lot of us thinking now. Some people want to get famous, and sex sells 😶 And then some people watch and want to to replicate without the right trainings or boundaries. Maybe we should promote Dominican Bachata more where people actually enjoy the music and dancing! (tho I am shock how many sensual dancers' ( even some teachers, and even artists in festivals) ignorance and dismissiveness against Dominican style, just because they don't know enough about it, I can't believe how someone get to a high level can not have that as the foundation). Agree with another point someone made about take it slow, while take it slow with the sensual, learn some traditional steps or Moderna style to have fun! Also one thought - if more of us and more good dancers and teachers start favouring traditional or more traditional fusion styles, then the crowd, hopefully will start to move over to where more great dancers are😛, and leave the bad Sensual to creeps. Based on my observations (could be wrong), it seems in the States this is what is happening, because the level of bachata is not very high, the high level dancers are in Salsa scene and generally look down upon BS, and there is a lot less of a mix than in Europe. I am not against Sensual, I just hope the scene produce more enjoyable dancers for me to dance with 😛
Too sexy? No such thing! Too oversesualized? Sadly yes. Since social media short videos boom, this escalated. Some new bachata couples decided to gain fame by posting cheaply oversexualized choreos, and sex sells (to the worst audience). I wouldn't consider it sexy though. The moves you're mentioning, like touching the face or chest, amongst many others are just gross, lack class and any bachata spirit. Completely unnecessary even from pure styling point of view. I love a good, varied, passionate and at the right times very close dance (when the music is right!), nothing better than hitting those beats with nice isolations and change the tempo with some lovely sensual basico, but all that should be provoked by music and connection, and rooted in technique, not just for the sake of cheap thrills. Not to mention there's boundaries to be found and respected first and foremost in social dancing!
I agree that sensual is to me too raunchy, I'm not a prude but as a 50s married woman I love dancing Bachata romantica/moderna but not my husband as he doesn't dance. But I was always taught the man never touches you with his hands on your body directly. It's always over your hands on your body & he directing those moves. Also I have no problems with close moves but they need appropriate to the music not just for the moves themselves. I'm also found that my male dancing friends have felt the difference. The older feel uncomfortable dancing with younger girls & never felt they before & the younger ones 20+ don't particularly like it either especially they've learned other modern first or in a relationship. There is dance space & etiquette which is really important. I feel especially with closes dances that is also not being taught which can lead to unsafe spece. And it always protected both parties in these close situations not sure if that same security is there for the younger people. Will keep dancing but will stick to modern.
I love sensual bachata. I think youtube/social media videos are where I’ve seen over-sexualized moves used during demos/performances. As I type that, though, I’m recognizing that the line for over-sexual is a very subjective one. I’m sure there are people who find the moves that I do (basic sensual bachata moves like hip isolations in closed position, body waves, etc) overly sexual. 🤔 My personal experience so far from dancing ballroom and salsa/bachata has been that it tends to be the older (most of the time also white) men who are likely to be inappropriate with me. So I personally prefer dancing with a younger-leaning crowd. I’ve also since gotten much better with staying in my frame and doing what I need to do protect and respect myself (ex: walk away) over what is the social norm/caring whether I will offend someone. 💪✌️ I’m still conditioned to be polite though 😵💫. Most recently, i told a guy that I needed to use the restroom and walked away… to the restroom (bc he kept asking for my number even though i had declined). 😅😑
This is amazingly, I love your feedback, I'm like you love Sensual Bachata, just been around for so long so I guess the change for me is a bit on a bigger scale, and since I teach I get exposed to all kind of things....thank you do much for your comment x
I think the main problem is that most people don't understand the difference btw "sensual" and "sexual": sensuality is based on a subtle tension and a constant excitement of what could happen, but doesnt happen. Sexuality is just the physical expression of sex. A dance can be sensual without being too sexual (Tango) or it can be sexual without being sensual (west african dances and all of their children - twerk, raeggaeton etc.). Being sexual is natural, while being sensual is something that has to be learned, and takes time - just like dancing. Most people try to be sensual, but they are not able to...and end up being sexual. I think this is the problem with bachata currently.
I don't think it is a good look when you have professionals such as Daniel and Desiree kissing each other when they are performing in their choreography or in performance. We know they are a partners in real life but I don't think it is a good look for the dance. We need to have leaders in the dance community, who model and communicate appropriate behaviour and etiquette.Top performers are like ambassadors for the dance.It is difficult when I show videos to my non-dance friends and then have to explain how this behaviour is unusual, that this is silly of them 'acting out' like this.
A guy here: yes 🙂 finally . But same with some other styles. Some people might find it sexy but only because it's sexy to the exclusion of everything else including beauty, rhythm and musicality. Ladies who doubt, we men may notice briefly the girls that, as Rasa says, porn, but we don't remember them and we aren't compelled to think good things about them, sad to say. Dancing, I seek things that are beyond words, not living pornography.
@@DanceWithRasa I started to dance bachata just as for the reason I like to move, so for the reason that I can meet girls but what I feel I found is important is not to be concentrated on seducing girls or finding a potential girlfriend but rather concentrate on the movement and enjoy the experience as it´s more enjoyable that way. Also when it comes to those sexy movements and being too close, what comes to my mind is how important role non-verbal communication has in this because you can just feel how much the follower is comfortable and whether as a leader or a follower you´re non-verbally showing what you´re comfortable with. What I don´t get is at one bachata sensual class I attended the teacher said that the leader determines the distance. For me it feels logical that the follower starts pulling away when they get uncomfortable. Also, what intrigues me is every girl is different when it comes to the ¨closeness¨ and from time to time I bump into some girl that dances so close, that would start pulling away if I didn´t like her. Sometimes it boggles my mind whether these girls who dance so extremely close just wanna flirt, whether they just wanna build sexual tension or whether they just like to make the guy blush and nervous lol. Even though I do enjoy encounters full of lust, I am starting to get to the point when I start thinking of working more on the improvisation and complexness of the movements.
I like the more sensual bachata provided it's stylish and aesthetic, but the lead man has to be respectful. I am a sensual bachata dancer. An Artist should be liberated in mind, body & spirit. Only those people should come to sensual bachata who are confident to express themselves.Its not porn. Even there are films where intimate scenes are shot aesthetically and has been part of prestigious film festivals. I am an Actress. Sensuality is very human. Conservative people should be away from kizomba , bachata, tango 😅
@@DanceWithRasa Agree. Even Argentina Tango dance is sensual. Most Ballroom dance is about intimacy, sensuality, and connection. Those who are not comfortable should stay away from sensual souls like us and such ball room dance. Sensuality is the power of male & female energy as it bonds.
On the flip side, It's hard to avoid this vibe if the song is literally about a one-night stand, or just having sx, and you hear phrases like "ride my pony" in the lyrics (very popular bachata song). If you're very uncomfortable with it, sorry, but you will struggle with bachata no matter what. Let's stay classy, but waves in the shadow position is not something I would ever dance with my mother. I can dance "bachata moderna" with everybody, but sensual bachata is… sensual. Of course, the dance is not sx, and you don't cross borders, but still some people are not comfortable even with artistic exploration of those energies.
Since the inclusion of Kizomba and bachata dedicated nights it’s definitely become a pickup science much more and the ageist behaviour it’s completely inappropriate (worse than racism) Plus the influx of very young in experienced and lacking correct techniques etiquette culture lacking completely etc the teachers encouraging the dance science as a pickup science both male and female teachers are sexualisation of the dance particularly this has grown
@@DanceWithRasa I’ve been dancing since I was a child I’m in my 50s now and totally love it How’s I’ve noticed that the current batch of very young teachers have serious ageist behaviour And regardless of male or female very very very sexual orientated particularly with there students they use coercive control undue influence etc to manipulate people It’s a deep Concern
@@michaelb5330 Can you elaborate on the ageist behavior you have experienced or witnessed? For example, have you been denied entry to a class or social due to your age? Were you dropped or not selected for a performance team due to your age?
@@acpjr Yes classes entry Performance removal or denial “Teachers” (young )telling younger not to dance with older people Sweeping statements like all older men are predictors Telling students not to dance at all or interact with the older dancers or they will also be banned or ostracised use it’d coercive control and influence as event organiser or teachers It’s quite common I personally can’t wait until they them self get a little short Oder and reap what toxic seeds they have spread Oh and I’m not a sensual bachata dancer I prefer Dominican and just good old normal bachata The sexualised styles of Kizomba and bachatta are bringing the lowest common denominator to the science Kizomba is a fad and totally been hijacked by people with wrong intentions greed and money focuses elitism huge egos and massive insecurities they projected on to other people and the science
I believe the true problem is that sensual 'bachata' sucks. The motricity and the guides are totally unnefficient, and there are too many figures that are impossible to guide if the follower is not heavily into waves. The new generation of bachata instructors are destructing bachata with the excuse of being 'creative' and some other falacies. What they are doing is corrupting, injunring necks and teaching anything but bachata. It's terryfing.
There is definitely that part, but also there is a part that might look unreadable, but interestingly, with the right technique, it works, just not everybody explains it !
After watching your video, I'm unclear as to what exactly your suggestion is, teachers as a group set out the rules, the lead as it were, students follow. If the association of teachers set out a guide or code to ethics, that would simplify matters rather than asking every girl her boundaries which is simply not practical.
I know , still fresh for me , firstly I'm trying to lead by example in my classes and as a dancer. But more things to have a positive affect will definitely require a team effort, so give me some time and come up with better solutions 😉.
2 parts. In general no because I know my boyfriend would never cross our agreed lines and hes very much in control of how close he allows people to get to him. Part 2 if she knows he's with me and starts grinning on him or touching his face I would take her on a side and school her like there's no tomorrow 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@DanceWithRasa I tell mine. But I'm vindictive af. If I see that I hurt his machismo by asking him not to dance with someone, I'll ask other ppl to dance til the end of the night and his jealousy will do what my words couldn't. He pretty much knows. You piss me off, I'll retaliate, I won't be sulking in the corner.
I don't think it is possible to change the evolution of bachata. If it weren't for the sensual bachata, the community would die out. What makes the charm of this dance is the combination of the Dominican, the modern and the sensual which vary according to the music. Removing one of these 3 aspects or asking men to practice only one style of bachata makes me laugh. As in any human relationship, there is an ethic, we cannot allow ourselves to plot women or rub against their buttocks on the pretext that it is dancing, these men will naturally disappear from the scene if the women refuse a new dance with them. Bachata is now a dance of seduction where there will necessarily be a physical rapprochement (bodies glued together to guide isolations, make a sensual base, etc.), women in couples who are embarrassed by this should perhaps abandon this dance rather than try to control the leaders (or why not become a leader herself)? I don't speak for Mrs. Rasa, whom I don't know, I happened to dance with bachateras who got together and permanently put their hands up as a barrier (there wasn't even an attempt to the sensual stuck on my side) but it seems that these women are lost once in a couple in their way of dancing the bachata and they hope perhaps to recreate a bachata compatible with their relationship as a couple on the pretext that the bachateros are suddenly naughty predators.
They call this "Batata" 😂 jk... Again, I just think it tends to be what you make it. I can't think of any move specifically that is too sexy from how it is taught. It's how you interpret the move and perform it with someone that makes it too much. With a lot of artists and teachers, they are themselves probably couples so they perform it much more sensually. Performance videos also tend to exaggerate sensual styling for the mtv and beyond generation. And then it's to do with how people are dressed, and that is super-difficult territory! So again, it is what you make it to be. That's probably what people like about Bachata, because you have the freedom to express yourself. People often unfairly perceive bachata to be more sensual than it actually is. Hip and torso connections are really not what people make of them. There is definitely an element of sexiness but that's what people like and Liberal-minded people are open to that. You just have to make sure it's reciprocal. I always say, it can be, it need not be! You are also right about the growing age divide particularly between salsa and bachata, and dominican and sensual and that is a big shame! You can probably make another video about the "style wars" 😉
Absolutely, but also some people have different boundaries. Somebody might respect me but maybe come towards me and do Sensual moves that test my boundaries. That's why important to educate the actual culture of the dance.
@@DanceWithRasa I am married but I love sensual dance with my partners. I think this might all becoming from with in your self. Can you maybe give us an example of the steps you find out of bounds?
@@AsgeirSaem of I love Sensual too, it's not so much the steps it's the extras , like touching my face, like putting forhead against mine for no technical reason, like putting hands in positions where is unnecessary, or using some strange moves that don't work on a social dance 🤔
If you were ACTUALLY dancing bachata then no, its not to Sexy. What you guys are dancing is a perverted version of the Dominican bachata. A europeanized one. I can't wait until the trend is over like Kizomba and us Dominicans can have our dance back.
Exactly the same situation,occured with Kizomba (family dance from Angola, very sweet with lovely tipical Angolan music). Then came: Kizomba fusion, Kizomba urban… very mechanic dancing with « electronical » music. A pity …
This is probably not going to be the most popular comment here, but I'm going to say it anyway. No, sensual bachata is not too sexy! Despite all the taboos of touching, touching can actually be a very powerful tool in creating intimate connection with another person, if done appropriately. As long as two people are very comfortable with each other and are respecting each other's boundaries, the idea of sensual bachata being "too sexy" shouldn't even be an issue. If you're concerned about being touched inappropriately, either go with your other half or don't participate in the activity at all.
I actually agree with you , its not that it's too sexy is that people do the extra touching without knowing if other person likes it, and there is not even one reason why my face would have to be touch to create extra connection, unless I know you and that is the thing we do between each other.
You are right, Bachata Sensual is too sexy for you, because you have become too old as a woman to have a high market value. Since Bachata Sensual is highly competitive, there are high value guys dancing there. With your current market value, you cannot bind any of these guys anymore into a relationship and they would only use you for sex. That means, you have to switch into a less competitive social dance with a higher portion of beta guys - like Salsa, or even Zouk or Dominican Bachata. When the situation becomes even more serious, I can recommend spiritual events like mantra singing and ecstatic dance for you - lots of soft guys there to find.
Actually all soft guys dance Bachata since it the place to find sex deprived woman. Yes tell me now that you enjoy listening to the romantic music all night you head guy...
There is no such a thing as a artistry porn Rasa. ART is supposed to elevate one's (and others') soul, instead of regressing it i a materialistic way...from navel down! To me all the teachers have the responsabilty and the duty to preserve the ART included in the dance (if they wish to present dance as a art form, otherwise simply let's say they are not artist but maybe artisan of movements..) before it comes to late. So, totally agree with you about start talking more about this subject..would be great if this would be discussed in the festivals and congresses helding some around tables with some teacher esponents especially those from the original places this dance come from. About you and your lovely boy🥰 if I would be in a serious relationship, and lucky enough that he already dances too, I'd see actually no need at all to dance Bachata or at least the Sensual one with other people around (if not with some esteemed teachers/big dancers only)..the reason is simply is: thanks to god I could finally express myself fully with him rather than an unknown person, so it's not at all for not hurting his feelings (which would make sense as well)🤩...I repeat, this is my personal way of feeling/being😉Dancy hugs🤗
Thank you so much for your honest comment, it makes the conversation so much more interesting 😊. For me I guess the point is that dance is suppose to be danced with anybody , old yourn family. And I am not a retrieving kind, I'm planning to fight for our bachata sceen 🤣🤣🤣
@@DanceWithRasa ..yes, of course but at what cost I'd ask to myself? 'Suffering', but pretending and smiling? If the one is dancing with me goes out of some boundaries I'd prefer to remain sticked to my chair:-)
I'm so glad you pointed this out! I started to avoid bachata parties, a lot of guys use sensual bachata to get too close. When I tell them politely to not do certain moves and explain how it makes me feel they all say "you have to relax". I hate this sentence it's disrespectful to not accept a woman's no. I prefer parties where they dance salsa as well, I feel the salsa scene is much more grounded and polite, maybe because people there are older. Would love to hear more rant videos from you :)
I understand, it sounds so condescending when somebody says relax......😡
Yes I think I cant stop now since I started this conversation, I will continue it 😍.
Never a girl get pregnant to touch leg with leg
Omg. Now I’m even more convinced that the first thing they should teach a new student is Honoring boundaries with absolute RESPECT.
Sorry about these shitty experiences 😩
@@AM-pt6oy well those things I teach all the time, and I know many teachers who do, we just need more 😇
Thank you for talking about this! I started my dance journey from bachata at age 19 and didn’t realize how unique the space that I went to social in was (a lot of different ages and pretty much always the same people) and bachata was amazing! sensual moves were used as accents and suited the music. I moved recently and tried to go to socials and classes in a lot of places and I absolutely hated it. I felt so uncomfortable with the leaders, not staying on beat, doing only body waves and bending moves. I stopped going to bachata all together, it feels like a completely different dance, I’m just sticking to kizomba and salsa now
Thank you for shared your experience, yes it truelly varies from place to place dramatically...
I think I know what you mean... As a leader I used to love bachata in general and sensual but now I don't like to dance sensual songs anymore. I still love bachata songs but I started to avoid sensual songs, now I much rather dance a salsa romantica, kizomba or dominican or a normal bachata. Maybe it's just me getting older but I started to find it a bit vulgar while I see other dances much more elegant and ejoyable.
I agree with everything said. I stopped going to sensual bachata socials for a while, but I do enjoy the dance for its grace and sensuality when done tastefully.
It really can be a very beautiful dance 💃
So delighted to hear you talk about this. I used to love dancing bachata and with the popularity of the sensual genre I started to not like it as much. I agree, more people who are uncomfortable with the intensity of the sexuality should openly discuss this. One of the reasons i got into the Latin dances was to stay away from lap dancing that was in the regular night clubs. Now, it’s sad to see how Latin dancing is becoming more and more associated with sexuality. And how about the kids whom we’re trying to attract and teach Latin dancing? Is this kind of sexual dancing we should teach them? We already live in a world full of sexuality and profanity. Thanks for the wisdom you share with us❤️
Absolutely, all we can do is set boundaries and educate people 👏
I do think you are spot on about the culture. I love Sensual bachata and I started out with it, but I realise in some places you really find the leads who just want to touch up a woman. They have their face right in your ear. I think it's the teachers and organisers responsibility to address this in their classes. I go to Bachata musketeers, and they are a very good at telling the leads like DON'T touch your follower here and DON'T stroke her face etc etc. I love the dance because it is sexy but there are definitely levels..and if I'm dancing with someone I know is just there for the dance, I feel more at ease and feel sexier! I think also this is the case in a lot of places, the beginners groups are usually the worst because there you will find the people who just think "omg this is a great way to get close to a woman" whereas when you get more advanced those people usually aren't so dedicated so drop off and you get the more serious dancers.
Wery good point ! Thank you for your input 😉. And yes beginners level so important, that's really where so much of dance culture should be tought and appropriate behaviour 😇
Thank you for this discussion! We have the same issues here in the US, exactly. It’s depends a lot who you dance with, where/venue, and who trained them how to lead.
Absolutely, it's now a problem everywhere, and I think even outside dancing 💃 🤔.
Thank you for talking about things that not many people voice on social media, but many people are thinking! I think boundaries are SO important to discuss.
As a follow sometimes it’s easy to doubt yourself when it comes to standing in your convictions without feeling “rigid” when really, dance should be a conversation. It should actually be the number one thing.
I first was attracted to bachata for the music, I never saw a video on you tube or anything, and your right, if I saw what is popular now it would have definitely NOT wanted to dance it.
I originally hated salsa and just went dancing for bachata because the music spoke to my heart so much, but now I actually appreciate salsa as its refreshingly light. Sometimes bachata and kizomba can feel too SERIOUS, like the heart is missing.
Also, a lot of “bachata dancers” now have literally skipped a level. They just went straight into the sensual stuff and don’t even keep the timing. Or they don’t seem to have respect for the music itself.
I could go on and on 😑
And as far as the relationship thing goes, when I first got into one , it was very weird to dance like that, however, now we don’t think much about it because we’ve had some honest conversations and have reached a place of understanding and trust with each other, and dancing bachata is just dancing bachata now.
All and all, I think we need to start a boundary revolution ✊
Skipping the levels really resonates with me ! And also honest conversations with your partner also very close to my heart 🥰
Another dancer I know told me this and I make him right, that the Sensual Bachata, nicked it's moves from the Brazilian Zouk. So now we have a hybrid dance made of two different sexy dances so the sexy has been doubled 😂 the younger lot haven’t found out what a boundary is let alone what their own boundaries are yet. Messy situation but here we are, if you can't communicate your boundaries with your energy alone then communication is the only way like Raza says. Keep the rants coming Raza, your knowledge and insights are incredibly valuable ❤🤗 Xx
Sexy has been doubled , that made me laugh out loud 😁😁😁
MORE RASA RANTS!!! I seem to be having more conversations with friends about this now more than ever. I agree with your points so to add my personal observations. You have 2 elements, first and correctly so, teachers who are coming up and trying to stand out more. Its simple, sex sells more easily particularly to a younger crowd. Already internationally popular teachers a lot of them are couples and therefore don't dance with the same boundaries and also perform more than social dance in their demos. So with everything on social media now how do you stand out? You make things super sexual.
Second is society in general, I think people are more so lacking boundaries when it comes to their behaviour and therefore expressing their sensuality on the dance floor. They see these super sexual moves think it's hot and amazing, they want some of that, and want to jump into the deep end. That amplifies the creepiness.
Actually writing this I have a 3rd point. Lack of training. You mentioned lack of etiquette being taught. I come across so few teachers that highlight etiquette in their classes. But also so many dancers rush blindly with their learning. Sensual bachata led and followed poorly is so uncomfortable, it just feels like you are awkwardly bumping bodies. The sensual bachata technique takes TIME to get it right. So spend more time learning it from a fundamental level to then be more comfortable dancing. My rant is over now. Thank you if you made it to the end 😜
I made it till the end , and i always love your input, you are such a lovely dancer and very insightful teacher so proud of you 👏
And let's continue ranting 😅
Amen about the the taking TIME to get it right. And high five on everything else
@@AM-pt6oy 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Totally agree about the social media, sex sells, simple as that.
But it's bad when somebody don't have right training trying to do that, bad sensual bachata is 🤢, think I have to start making excuse that I only dance Dominican if that continues 😂
and this: "They see these super sexual moves think it's hot and amazing" , not just on social media, in real life, they see something on the dance floor and want to repeat it - maybe it was just between that two people or it could be super uncomfortable you just don't see it by watching, or even they see me dancing with one lead who can do great moves and want to repeat it but it's bad pffff 😤
Keep ranting and ranting! It is all so appreciated! new to dancing scenes here and love all the rants insight and experiences talks!
Fantastic , welcome to the dance world 😁
You definitely are not the only one that feels like that. Thank you! ❤I connect a lot with you because you speak your mind. Besos Bella 😊
Gracias Milka 🥰🥰
Absolutely agree. I am married with 2 kids. My husband doesn’t dance but trusts me to go out and enjoy my dance nights (I made it clear from the start that I found dancing before him and needed to keep dance in my life ❤️). I love the sound of bachata music and its rhythm. However, if I don’t think my husband or my girls would be comfortable seeing me dance a certain way with someone else, I won’t do it. Sadly, this means that I’ve given up bachata.
Maybe there should be a new type of bachata? “Classy bachata” may sound too judgmental (and possibly repressed!), but something along those lines. When inviting someone to dance, indicate sensual or classy (or whatever the label becomes) and expectations are clear and the person invited to dance can respond accordingly???
That is a very cool idea, just difficult to execute between the world, but an option could be to wear smth that says in bachata do not touch my face, or I don't like Sensual or smth like that 🤣🤣🤣
@@DanceWithRasa 🤣yep, and you could sell whatever it is in your shop! Thanks again for the video and response! xx
@@heidipeachey1245 look at that, an idea and a business in one 🤣
@@DanceWithRasa I’m thinking T-shirts….#don’t toucha my face! 🤣
@@heidipeachey1245 omg so funny 😅😅😅😅
I started dancing 10 years ago but took a 5 year break when I had my daughter. When I returned this year I was amazed at how much sensual has taken over. It is not my style, I don't enjoy it, it makes me feel uncomfortable and I resent how, as a follow I just am expected to dance the sensual moves. I choose to avoid any bachata rooms now and I REALLY miss dancing Dominican style. I would love to see dedicated Dominican socials and Dominican style bachata rooms at congresses. Also - I agree that sensual is dominated by younger people. I am 38 and have a 6 year old daughter. I hope she will join the latin dance scene one day - but NOT if sensual bachata continues to dominate because I think it opens the door for leads to take all kinds of advantages.
Thank you for sharing 🥰. And Dominican Bachata is slowly coming back in some London places, Italy , few places in Spain, 5 more years 🤣🤣🤣
Agreed
There are not only the leads that take advantage but predatory women as well. So predatory people in general...
Thanks Rasa, totally agree that there are definite boundaries and inappropriate touching like you mentioned is definitely not on. It's the teacher's responsibility to teach not just the moves but the culture, nobody wants to have an uncomfortable experience on the dance floor. Having said that, I've not seen this happening but I'm an older Yorkshire country bumpkin, that might be the reason.🤔
Yes I think these things happen mote in big cities and big congresses. I learned my dancing in Leeds , so I was brought up I a mixed loving sceen, big screens tend yo lack that 😇
Great observations but I'd LOVE to hear more RASA RANTS, PLEASE! I personally didn't know there was a Sensual Bacharach movement and for that I'm grateful that I'm in a committed relationship cuz it sounds like "personal boundaries" are getting crossed and/or blurred. Educating the younger dancers sound great, since it looks like they're lacking direction (just my opinion).
-San Francisco fan girl
😅😅😅oh Rasa can rant and rant, let's not encourage me 🤣🤣🤣
It's not too sexy. It's trying too hard to be sexy in the first place but isn't.
I think that's the thing, too many trying to be what they think is sexy, rather then stop being sexy and just be themselves and trying to connect.. its not suppose to be about being sexy 💗
Good intervention!
😉😁
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic Rasa! You are true and honest and I deeply appreciate it.
I totally agree with all of the arguments and thoughts in your video. I find myself avoiding the bachata parties lately because of the too sensual moves the leaders usually use. Leaders usually get into close position too soon in the dance (often from the first move) and they use only body movement with barely steps in between. This make me feel uncomfortable and somehow like loosing my freedom while dancing.
Just my thoughts 😸
I like that, I feel like loosing my freedom to dance , I think that's such a good expression, really can relate 💗
I had a conversation with someone about some of this and a lot of it lead back to not feeling like people spend enough time on understanding connection, limits and communication. So, now that I have some time and experience with different instructors, I have learned there are certain things I don't like about how certain teachers teach and definitely things I feel people don't spend enough time on. I remember two things in particular from what my first Salsa teacher said. The first thing was, Leads don't tell the follows what to do, they ask them. The second things was, if a follow isn't following sometimes you just have to force them through the turn or crossbody lead. I very much agree with the first one but I feel like the second one is contradicting of the first statement and quite frankly unnecessarily aggressive. Recently at conference, someone was showing some more sensual moves for a style called Zouk and his response to people that seemed uncomfortable was something along the lines of "this is how it is, respect the dance" I learned at that moment, I do not like the phrase "respect the dance." At least not in that context. I am all for respecting the dances and the cultures but it just felt like he was saying "respect the dance, not necessarily your partners." It honestly seemed like he was saying "if you're uncomfortable, get over it." Those two things got me thinking more about the concept of "Leads don't tell the follows what to do they ask them." So I always try and lead with the concept that if I am truly asking and not telling, I should always be leaving them a way out when possible. This means not only is the follow trying to understand my intent I am trying to understand their response (or lack there of) to my intent. This means I have to not just have an understanding of what my body is doing, but theirs as well. I wish there was more focus on that. So for example, if I am trying to go into shadow position and they aren't feeling it or don't understand my lead and decide to go into a full turn I adjust accordingly instead of forcing through it. Hopefully after a few measures I've learned a few things about my partner and can start thinking "Okay, they either don't feel comfortable or don't know shadow position and they don't seem to comfortable with being too close. Okay I won't attempt to do isolations or body rolls or anything that requires really close contact." That said, maybe the next person I dance with is a bit more comfortable doing more things and I'll be the one who has to set limits. Point is, the communication should be two ways and not just one person going, get comfortable cause we're doing things. I'm pretty liberal so I don't really care how people dance with each other as long as the two of them connecting with each other in a way that is not one sided. But instead of normalizing "I know you're uncomfortable but respect the dance" we should normalize No means no and that you can still have a good dance even if you keep everything basic as long as the two of you connect to each other on some level.
I will also say that some of the instructors do need to emphasize that not every move you see them do is appropriate for everyone on the dance floor. Some of the more sexy moves you might see them do with each other, they are doing with their spouse or significant other and probably wouldn't do that with just anybody.
@@FFOndra big thank you for really taking your time with your comment, few thing that really stood out for me and I think you are spot on with the taking time and connecting. If 2 people are on the same boat its nice, but one has to allow another to get there,or not 😉.
Yes there's too many teachers coming up with no mentoring no higher understanding of what the sceen is about so their struggling to teach the behaviour side by side the moves 💗
Some sensual moves are acceptable, not all though. But for expressing one’s musicallity the moves are very useful.
True 😉
Thanks for raising this issue Rasa. Personally, I think people should be expecting quite suggestive moves from a style with the word “sensual” in it. The lyrics are often provocative themselves talking about friends with benefits (amigos con derechos), sleeping together and other romantic themes (which has been the case for the past decade) so anyone not comfortable with that is free to try moderna, traditional, salsa or ballroom dance to name a few other styles.
HOWEVER, having said this, setting boundaries and having them be respected is so important especially in an already close dance.
I think the problems you mention arise from NEWER not necessarily “young” dancers who have perhaps seen viral videos of Daniel&Desiree and now think they can touch any woman’s face 😂🤦🏽♀️ or are going to these classes solely for “dating” purposes.
We need to encourage more open conversations in ALL levels of classes about appropriate touching and the importance of saying no if you feel uncomfortable, I think it’s especially important for women but also for men!!!
Some teachers are definitely starting to do more sensual moves and wear more revealing outfits too but that’s because of the demand and a reflection of our image-focused society, the impact of social media (possible opportunities to go viral and get sponsorships/payment which is invaluable in this career) and the interpretation of the saucy lyrics.
I agree sensual bachata is pulling in a young crowd at the moment but I’m not sure how many married couples would want their other half intimately dancing with a stranger with a song about “let’s not tell anyone” in the background 😂 nor would I personally want to be doing crazy dips in my 50s.
Thanks for reading xx
I also think the lockdowns may have stunted our personal interactions more which is translating on the dance floor. In addition, just another personal opinion, bachata seems to have a faster learning curve/easier to progress than salsa which may be another factor towards younger crowds (the instant gratification).
@@awilliams7796 very good points in deed 👏
Thats very insightful and quite right I believe, thank you for sharing 😊
Thank you Rasa🥰🥰🥰
🤩🤩🤩
I started dancing 8 years ago and a lot of these new trends make me so happy that I have my husband as a dancing partner because I would feel uncomfortable with so much intimacy dancing with a stranger
That really is a beautiful thing to have your husband to dance with 🥰.
Completely agree. I started dancing 3.5 years ago and I notice a big difference from then. Last time I tried to disuede some inappropriate behavior (literal waist massaging) by saying "not too close" and I was reprimanded by the lead, he said "it was fine". The dance ended and I haven't been back to that social.
Do not let these experiences stop you from enjoying bachata, I know its annoying and hard but I remember how it used to be and I believe if we make a stand we can bring some of the balance back , I can't do it on my own 😅😅😅😅
Hi Rasa, please make a video about bachata styles and what are the differences between them. Thank you!
ruclips.net/video/XnI2npMWLSg/видео.html
You might find this useful 🤩
@@DanceWithRasa Yey! that's what I need 🎆
Yes, yes yes, we need more talks.
Definitely, I am having more men [often over 40 or early 20] who try sensual from the very start, and really don't give a f about whether the music is Dominican or else. Also, I have more and more cases when people try to touch my neck, or go forehead to forehead, copying those teachers who do that for the show.
I also feel that the teachers don't teach safety and boundaries! I mean I met some great teachers who put safety in the first place as with the sensual we trust our neck, and spine to the leader and many leaders just don't know those rules.
I am still not sure if I was harrassed on one kizomba or that was part of strange kizomba. I went to the party, I wanted to dance a bit kizomba, I took classes for 1 months, we were doing walking, steps etc. The guy at the party had me like for 15 mins in the close position for what probably was more like a rubbing his hips with mine, we did a few walks but it was just standing in one place. That time I thought it was some sensual kizomba as he was moving extremely smooth but now I think it was not.
Oh I understand you so much ! Many of us including me give people a benefit of a doubt but leaving the dance more confused then anything else 😶🌫️
I don’t mind forehead touching for certain moments with a lead that has shown me he is highly respectful and it’s just part of the vibe - but this is rare and only with people I have known for long time.
@@DanceWithRasa giving the benefit of a doubt to leads just made me almost leave dance altogether sadly
I remember the small bachata room at the old Salsamania was always dark and sparse because that's where ppl would go to get jiggy. Now bachata has blown up because now we have tons if social media promoting sexual partner dancing where everyone thinks this easy dance is gonna look like these pro dancers.. Sex sells!! I have politely denied bachata dances and have been told to F off more than once. SMH I'm in a serious relationship and my partner gets sexual advances from women about 90% of the time. Sometimes in front of me. So we both have stopped dancing with other ppl because of too much bad behavior. 😢
I think the emerging Sensual Bachata scene is a culture shock to those of us who have been in the existing latin dance scene for some time. On the surface, there are several things that immediately stick out to me - 1) college age/young adult crowd 2) a lot of songs sung in English 3) the overtly flirtatiousness of the dance. I think that 1) is a *byproduct* of 2) and 3). Rasa mentions that 1) is a red flag for her, but for me 2) is the real red flag. I noticed that a lot of the music is remixed American/Latin pop music, so it's no surprise that it appeals to a younger crowd. I agree with Rasa that there is a lot of technique in Sensual, and it can be just as fun and expressive as Salsa or Bachata when both partners have a high level of training. But as Rasa said, those who were turned off by 3) left and never got to that level, and those who remain reinforce the Sensual Bachata cultural norms that many of us don't care for. So what is the big deal? If you don't like it, don't do it, right? I think the reaction we're having has to do with the perception that Sensual is "taking over". In my scene, the Sensual movement has *a lot* of momentum coming out of the covid-19 restrictions. So what are we to do? Sit and complain about it? No, I think the responsibility of us who have experience in Salsa/Bachata is to *dance with beginners* and show them a good time whenever possible. This way we don't lose them to the gravitational forces of Sensual, or lose them altogether if Sensual isn't for them. Unless we actively protect Salsa/Bachata by recruiting new dancers, I think there is a very real risk that Sensual does take over (in areas where there isn't a high concentration of Latin people anyway).
Oh such good feedback ! Definitely agree with dancing with beginners and standing up for Latin sceen ! 😇
Great video and totally agree with your perspective. xx dominican bachata makes things easier 9;
I love Dominican Bachata 🇩🇴.
Great rant! Exactly what a lot of us thinking now. Some people want to get famous, and sex sells 😶
And then some people watch and want to to replicate without the right trainings or boundaries.
Maybe we should promote Dominican Bachata more where people actually enjoy the music and dancing! (tho I am shock how many sensual dancers' ( even some teachers, and even artists in festivals) ignorance and dismissiveness against Dominican style, just because they don't know enough about it, I can't believe how someone get to a high level can not have that as the foundation). Agree with another point someone made about take it slow, while take it slow with the sensual, learn some traditional steps or Moderna style to have fun!
Also one thought - if more of us and more good dancers and teachers start favouring traditional or more traditional fusion styles, then the crowd, hopefully will start to move over to where more great dancers are😛, and leave the bad Sensual to creeps.
Based on my observations (could be wrong), it seems in the States this is what is happening, because the level of bachata is not very high, the high level dancers are in Salsa scene and generally look down upon BS, and there is a lot less of a mix than in Europe. I am not against Sensual, I just hope the scene produce more enjoyable dancers for me to dance with 😛
I think it is amazing foundation is we learn more Dominican and Moderna thats for sure 🥰.
Thank you so much for your comment 😊.
Totally agree....that's why I gave up although I was a good dancer
I'm sorry to hear that 💓
Too sexy? No such thing!
Too oversesualized? Sadly yes. Since social media short videos boom, this escalated. Some new bachata couples decided to gain fame by posting cheaply oversexualized choreos, and sex sells (to the worst audience).
I wouldn't consider it sexy though. The moves you're mentioning, like touching the face or chest, amongst many others are just gross, lack class and any bachata spirit. Completely unnecessary even from pure styling point of view.
I love a good, varied, passionate and at the right times very close dance (when the music is right!), nothing better than hitting those beats with nice isolations and change the tempo with some lovely sensual basico, but all that should be provoked by music and connection, and rooted in technique, not just for the sake of cheap thrills.
Not to mention there's boundaries to be found and respected first and foremost in social dancing!
Such good insights, from all the comments I really feel like we have more like minded people then I thought ❤
Your channel is amazing!!
Thank you so much ❤️
I agree that sensual is to me too raunchy, I'm not a prude but as a 50s married woman I love dancing Bachata romantica/moderna but not my husband as he doesn't dance. But I was always taught the man never touches you with his hands on your body directly. It's always over your hands on your body & he directing those moves. Also I have no problems with close moves but they need appropriate to the music not just for the moves themselves. I'm also found that my male dancing friends have felt the difference. The older feel uncomfortable dancing with younger girls & never felt they before & the younger ones 20+ don't particularly like it either especially they've learned other modern first or in a relationship. There is dance space & etiquette which is really important. I feel especially with closes dances that is also not being taught which can lead to unsafe spece. And it always protected both parties in these close situations not sure if that same security is there for the younger people. Will keep dancing but will stick to modern.
Very good observations 👍
I searched non sensual bachata and this came up, need to start a new trend with no exagerated sensual moves for those who don't like to do that
Oh I agree , a nice mix of non crazy Sensual stuff 😇
I love sensual bachata.
I think youtube/social media videos are where I’ve seen over-sexualized moves used during demos/performances. As I type that, though, I’m recognizing that the line for over-sexual is a very subjective one. I’m sure there are people who find the moves that I do (basic sensual bachata moves like hip isolations in closed position, body waves, etc) overly sexual. 🤔
My personal experience so far from dancing ballroom and salsa/bachata has been that it tends to be the older (most of the time also white) men who are likely to be inappropriate with me.
So I personally prefer dancing with a younger-leaning crowd.
I’ve also since gotten much better with staying in my frame and doing what I need to do protect and respect myself (ex: walk away) over what is the social norm/caring whether I will offend someone. 💪✌️
I’m still conditioned to be polite though 😵💫. Most recently, i told a guy that I needed to use the restroom and walked away… to the restroom (bc he kept asking for my number even though i had declined). 😅😑
This is amazingly, I love your feedback, I'm like you love Sensual Bachata, just been around for so long so I guess the change for me is a bit on a bigger scale, and since I teach I get exposed to all kind of things....thank you do much for your comment x
Hi Raza, sensual bachata for dancers over 40 … an explanation: our bodies are less flexible 😂 specially for followers 🙃
Absolutely, but it should be possible to dance to all 😇
I think the main problem is that most people don't understand the difference btw "sensual" and "sexual": sensuality is based on a subtle tension and a constant excitement of what could happen, but doesnt happen. Sexuality is just the physical expression of sex. A dance can be sensual without being too sexual (Tango) or it can be sexual without being sensual (west african dances and all of their children - twerk, raeggaeton etc.). Being sexual is natural, while being sensual is something that has to be learned, and takes time - just like dancing. Most people try to be sensual, but they are not able to...and end up being sexual. I think this is the problem with bachata currently.
I agree that people mix sensual with sexual, that's so true.
I don't think it is a good look when you have professionals such as Daniel and Desiree kissing each other when they are performing in their choreography or in performance. We know they are a partners in real life but I don't think it is a good look for the dance. We need to have leaders in the dance community, who model and communicate appropriate behaviour and etiquette.Top performers are like ambassadors for the dance.It is difficult when I show videos to my non-dance friends and then have to explain how this behaviour is unusual, that this is silly of them 'acting out' like this.
I agree with you , the kissing is unnecessary, everyone already knows they are together 😉
A guy here: yes 🙂 finally . But same with some other styles. Some people might find it sexy but only because it's sexy to the exclusion of everything else including beauty, rhythm and musicality. Ladies who doubt, we men may notice briefly the girls that, as Rasa says, porn, but we don't remember them and we aren't compelled to think good things about them, sad to say. Dancing, I seek things that are beyond words, not living pornography.
Thats nice to hear, and there are a lot of men like you , we just need those who make things uncomfortable to be less 🤣 finding a middle some how lol.
@@DanceWithRasa I started to dance bachata just as for the reason I like to move, so for the reason that I can meet girls but what I feel I found is important is not to be concentrated on seducing girls or finding a potential girlfriend but rather concentrate on the movement and enjoy the experience as it´s more enjoyable that way.
Also when it comes to those sexy movements and being too close, what comes to my mind is how important role non-verbal communication has in this because you can just feel how much the follower is comfortable and whether as a leader or a follower you´re non-verbally showing what you´re comfortable with. What I don´t get is at one bachata sensual class I attended the teacher said that the leader determines the distance. For me it feels logical that the follower starts pulling away when they get uncomfortable.
Also, what intrigues me is every girl is different when it comes to the ¨closeness¨ and from time to time I bump into some girl that dances so close, that would start pulling away if I didn´t like her. Sometimes it boggles my mind whether these girls who dance so extremely close just wanna flirt, whether they just wanna build sexual tension or whether they just like to make the guy blush and nervous lol. Even though I do enjoy encounters full of lust, I am starting to get to the point when I start thinking of working more on the improvisation and complexness of the movements.
@@MusicAndParkour you are so spot on! Very well said 👏
More respectful guys as you are on the dance floor 👍👍
It’s becoming vulgar the way they are trying to make it sensual!
Some of those things most definitely 🤐
I like the more sensual bachata provided it's stylish and aesthetic, but the lead man has to be respectful. I am a sensual bachata dancer. An Artist should be liberated in mind, body & spirit. Only those people should come to sensual bachata who are confident to express themselves.Its not porn. Even there are films where intimate scenes are shot aesthetically and has been part of prestigious film festivals. I am an Actress. Sensuality is very human. Conservative people should be away from kizomba , bachata, tango 😅
🤣🤣🤣 bachata tango 😅😅😅
I agree as long as its artistic and respectful, just few people are artis who understand what it means 😉
@@DanceWithRasa Agree. Even Argentina Tango dance is sensual. Most Ballroom dance is about intimacy, sensuality, and connection. Those who are not comfortable should stay away from sensual souls like us and such ball room dance. Sensuality is the power of male & female energy as it bonds.
On the flip side, It's hard to avoid this vibe if the song is literally about a one-night stand, or just having sx, and you hear phrases like "ride my pony" in the lyrics (very popular bachata song). If you're very uncomfortable with it, sorry, but you will struggle with bachata no matter what. Let's stay classy, but waves in the shadow position is not something I would ever dance with my mother. I can dance "bachata moderna" with everybody, but sensual bachata is… sensual. Of course, the dance is not sx, and you don't cross borders, but still some people are not comfortable even with artistic exploration of those energies.
I dance shadow positions with my mother 🤣
Since the inclusion of Kizomba and bachata dedicated nights it’s definitely become a pickup science much more and the ageist behaviour it’s completely inappropriate (worse than racism)
Plus the influx of very young in experienced and lacking correct techniques etiquette culture lacking completely etc the teachers encouraging the dance science as a pickup science both male and female teachers are sexualisation of the dance particularly this has grown
When I started dancing over 15 years ago we had kizomba and bachata , but it was lovely and inclusive ❤️ things definitely took a big turn recently.
@@DanceWithRasa
I’ve been dancing since I was a child I’m in my 50s now and totally love it
How’s I’ve noticed that the current batch of very young teachers have serious ageist behaviour
And regardless of male or female very very very sexual orientated particularly with there students they use coercive control undue influence etc to manipulate people
It’s a deep Concern
@@michaelb5330 Can you elaborate on the ageist behavior you have experienced or witnessed? For example, have you been denied entry to a class or social due to your age? Were you dropped or not selected for a performance team due to your age?
@@acpjr
Yes classes entry
Performance removal or denial
“Teachers” (young )telling younger not to dance with older people
Sweeping statements like all older men are predictors
Telling students not to dance at all or interact with the older dancers or they will also be banned or ostracised use it’d coercive control and influence as event organiser or teachers
It’s quite common I personally can’t wait until they them self get a little short Oder and reap what toxic seeds they have spread
Oh and I’m not a sensual bachata dancer I prefer Dominican and just good old normal bachata
The sexualised styles of Kizomba and bachatta are bringing the lowest common denominator to the science
Kizomba is a fad and totally been hijacked by people with wrong intentions greed and money focuses elitism huge egos and massive insecurities they projected on to other people and the science
@@michaelb5330 yes I notice that as well and it is really sad for me to see ..
I believe the true problem is that sensual 'bachata' sucks. The motricity and the guides are totally unnefficient, and there are too many figures that are impossible to guide if the follower is not heavily into waves. The new generation of bachata instructors are destructing bachata with the excuse of being 'creative' and some other falacies. What they are doing is corrupting, injunring necks and teaching anything but bachata. It's terryfing.
There is definitely that part, but also there is a part that might look unreadable, but interestingly, with the right technique, it works, just not everybody explains it !
After watching your video, I'm unclear as to what exactly your suggestion is, teachers as a group set out the rules, the lead as it were, students follow. If the association of teachers set out a guide or code to ethics, that would simplify matters rather than asking every girl her boundaries which is simply not practical.
I know , still fresh for me , firstly I'm trying to lead by example in my classes and as a dancer. But more things to have a positive affect will definitely require a team effort, so give me some time and come up with better solutions 😉.
Would it trouble you If a girl got too close to your boyfriend while dancing sensual bachata?
2 parts. In general no because I know my boyfriend would never cross our agreed lines and hes very much in control of how close he allows people to get to him. Part 2 if she knows he's with me and starts grinning on him or touching his face I would take her on a side and school her like there's no tomorrow 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@DanceWithRasa 😂😂😂, this is my man! Not for you!
Will you tell him not to dance with certain woman who do these things?
@@leprechaun130 never, he will not do it if they inappropriate anyway 😉
@@DanceWithRasa I tell mine. But I'm vindictive af. If I see that I hurt his machismo by asking him not to dance with someone, I'll ask other ppl to dance til the end of the night and his jealousy will do what my words couldn't. He pretty much knows. You piss me off, I'll retaliate, I won't be sulking in the corner.
@@tacubocu well to each their own but that's a bit too string for me 🤣 if I would talk like that I probably would be single now 🤣🤣🤣
I don't think it is possible to change the evolution of bachata. If it weren't for the sensual bachata, the community would die out. What makes the charm of this dance is the combination of the Dominican, the modern and the sensual which vary according to the music. Removing one of these 3 aspects or asking men to practice only one style of bachata makes me laugh. As in any human relationship, there is an ethic, we cannot allow ourselves to plot women or rub against their buttocks on the pretext that it is dancing, these men will naturally disappear from the scene if the women refuse a new dance with them. Bachata is now a dance of seduction where there will necessarily be a physical rapprochement (bodies glued together to guide isolations, make a sensual base, etc.), women in couples who are embarrassed by this should perhaps abandon this dance rather than try to control the leaders (or why not become a leader herself)? I don't speak for Mrs. Rasa, whom I don't know, I happened to dance with bachateras who got together and permanently put their hands up as a barrier (there wasn't even an attempt to the sensual stuck on my side) but it seems that these women are lost once in a couple in their way of dancing the bachata and they hope perhaps to recreate a bachata compatible with their relationship as a couple on the pretext that the bachateros are suddenly naughty predators.
They call this "Batata" 😂 jk... Again, I just think it tends to be what you make it. I can't think of any move specifically that is too sexy from how it is taught. It's how you interpret the move and perform it with someone that makes it too much. With a lot of artists and teachers, they are themselves probably couples so they perform it much more sensually. Performance videos also tend to exaggerate sensual styling for the mtv and beyond generation. And then it's to do with how people are dressed, and that is super-difficult territory! So again, it is what you make it to be. That's probably what people like about Bachata, because you have the freedom to express yourself. People often unfairly perceive bachata to be more sensual than it actually is. Hip and torso connections are really not what people make of them. There is definitely an element of sexiness but that's what people like and Liberal-minded people are open to that. You just have to make sure it's reciprocal. I always say, it can be, it need not be!
You are also right about the growing age divide particularly between salsa and bachata, and dominican and sensual and that is a big shame! You can probably make another video about the "style wars" 😉
Thank you for your input 😊. And great idea about dance wars between styles 😁.
does it not all come down to respect on the floor?
Absolutely, but also some people have different boundaries. Somebody might respect me but maybe come towards me and do Sensual moves that test my boundaries. That's why important to educate the actual culture of the dance.
@@DanceWithRasa I am married but I love sensual dance with my partners. I think this might all becoming from with in your self. Can you maybe give us an example of the steps you find out of bounds?
@@AsgeirSaem of I love Sensual too, it's not so much the steps it's the extras , like touching my face, like putting forhead against mine for no technical reason, like putting hands in positions where is unnecessary, or using some strange moves that don't work on a social dance 🤔
Crappy teachers.
Some...
If you were ACTUALLY dancing bachata then no, its not to Sexy. What you guys are dancing is a perverted version of the Dominican bachata. A europeanized one. I can't wait until the trend is over like Kizomba and us Dominicans can have our dance back.
I understand what you mean and really appreciate it...must be hard to see the European bachata danced the way we do 🤗
@@DanceWithRasayes it is terrible. Dancers really look stupid doing it
@Ptah Hotep nobody can take this dance from you, its in your roots 💗
Exactly the same situation,occured with Kizomba (family dance from Angola, very sweet with lovely tipical Angolan music). Then came: Kizomba fusion, Kizomba urban… very mechanic dancing with « electronical » music. A pity …
This is probably not going to be the most popular comment here, but I'm going to say it anyway. No, sensual bachata is not too sexy! Despite all the taboos of touching, touching can actually be a very powerful tool in creating intimate connection with another person, if done appropriately. As long as two people are very comfortable with each other and are respecting each other's boundaries, the idea of sensual bachata being "too sexy" shouldn't even be an issue. If you're concerned about being touched inappropriately, either go with your other half or don't participate in the activity at all.
I actually agree with you , its not that it's too sexy is that people do the extra touching without knowing if other person likes it, and there is not even one reason why my face would have to be touch to create extra connection, unless I know you and that is the thing we do between each other.
You are right, Bachata Sensual is too sexy for you, because you have become too old as a woman to have a high market value. Since Bachata Sensual is highly competitive, there are high value guys dancing there. With your current market value, you cannot bind any of these guys anymore into a relationship and they would only use you for sex. That means, you have to switch into a less competitive social dance with a higher portion of beta guys - like Salsa, or even Zouk or Dominican Bachata. When the situation becomes even more serious, I can recommend spiritual events like mantra singing and ecstatic dance for you - lots of soft guys there to find.
You need to take a break of watching these videos with high low value men and women 🤣🤣🤣.
Actually all soft guys dance Bachata since it the place to find sex deprived woman. Yes tell me now that you enjoy listening to the romantic music all night you head guy...
So Salsa is for loosers. 😂
@@shutting88 Yeah kind of.
Troll
There is no such a thing as a artistry porn Rasa. ART is supposed to elevate one's (and others') soul, instead of regressing it i a materialistic way...from navel down! To me all the teachers have the responsabilty and the duty to preserve the ART included in the dance (if they wish to present dance as a art form, otherwise simply let's say they are not artist but maybe artisan of movements..) before it comes to late. So, totally agree with you about start talking more about this subject..would be great if this would be discussed in the festivals and congresses helding some around tables with some teacher esponents especially those from the original places this dance come from.
About you and your lovely boy🥰 if I would be in a serious relationship, and lucky enough that he already dances too, I'd see actually no need at all to dance Bachata or at least the Sensual one with other people around (if not with some esteemed teachers/big dancers only)..the reason is simply is: thanks to god I could finally express myself fully with him rather than an unknown person, so it's not at all for not hurting his feelings (which would make sense as well)🤩...I repeat, this is my personal way of feeling/being😉Dancy hugs🤗
Thank you so much for your honest comment, it makes the conversation so much more interesting 😊.
For me I guess the point is that dance is suppose to be danced with anybody , old yourn family. And I am not a retrieving kind, I'm planning to fight for our bachata sceen 🤣🤣🤣
@@DanceWithRasa ..yes, of course but at what cost I'd ask to myself? 'Suffering', but pretending and smiling? If the one is dancing with me goes out of some boundaries I'd prefer to remain sticked to my chair:-)