Trope Talk: Mentors
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
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Mentors! Those reliable bastions of fiction, always ready to guide and support their protagonist proteges as they navigate the tumultuous world of fiction. Until they die. Bummer.
Got a favorite mentor? Talk about how cool they are in the comments!
EXAMPLES USED IN ROUGH ORDER OF FIRST APPEARANCE: Star Wars IV, Lord of the Rings, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, Kung Fu Panda, Star Wars V, Karate Kid, Star Wars VI, Batman Begins, The Dragon Prince, The Flash, Harry Potter IV, Rurouni Kenshin
Our content is intended for teenage audiences and up.
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Mentor says, "I have nothing left to teach you."
I hear, "Tragedy striking in 10..."
Professor Dragonite 9...
I'm scared for what's to come in MHA
8...
@@vickypedia1308 Oh god please,, anyone but All Might
@@vickypedia1308 To be fair, they don't really need him gone since they already dealt with the "why doesn't he just beat up the villians instead" problem already.
"Mentors always die for their proteges."
*Batman:* _UNO reverse card_
Just Some Guy with a Mustache YOOOOO LMFAOOO 💀💀
Never be the less popular half of a dynamic duo. It doesn’t work out.
Batman doesn't count as a "mentor" character, because he is also the main protagonist of the stories and thus posess the power of plot armor. Actually, students of the hero tend to have a death flag on them, too, although not one as big as that of the mentor, because you can do more with students than that and there is no need to remove them from the story like a mentor who would make the hero's job too easy.
@@KingRyanoles Ron Weasley: *UNO reverse card*
EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Will you teach me how to be a hero?"
"Sure, as soon as I'm finished writing my will."
Sooo you can have a golden snitch, figure it out by YOURSELF.
@@swanandab2484 Dumbledore, the only Mentor to choose long suicide over being a mentor figure any longer.
Then for SnG's decided to up his trolling by giving cursed, or random af gifts without explaining anything.
@@ashannahensley3288 what does "SnG" mean?
@@snaketooth0943shits and giggles
Me: They’ll never kill Ironman
*Tony becomes Peter’s mentor and we haven’t even met uncle Ben*
Me:..... oh no
Peter Parker: dies
Marvel: HA PLOT TWIST!
@@thomasallen9974 Endgame: *Uno reverse*
@Lexi N UNO reverse card
But Ironman's still dead, are Uno reverse cards ineffective after 2 uses?
Does this mean that Peter dies for good once he becomes Morgan's mentor?
At first I was like “What about Iroh?” Then I realized how many tropes Iroh breaks for the better
I think that there are a few reasons why Iroh survives where most other mentors don't. One of the main ones is that he doesn't really have that much in the way of world-changing info for the characters. He's not a mentor in the traditional sense of explaining to characters how the world they're in works, he's more about giving characters, specifically Zuko, advice on how to live their lives and be a better person. Alive, he influences Zuko to become a better person and eventually renounce his evil father and join the good guys. His death wouldn't have led to nearly as interesting a character arc.
Let's say he had died when Azula hit him in "The Chase". Where would that lead Zuko? It would probably lead him on a quest for revenge against her, which could even lead to him working with the good guys, but not as a better person, as an even angrier, sadder, more messed up person than before.
I think that's the important difference between Iroh and other mentors. Most mentors provide a hero who's already on the right path with skills, knowledge, and power that they need to achieve their goal, and once they've imparted some (but not all) of that, their death serves to motivate the hero and to force them to navigate the world they're in on they're own. Zuko already HAS skills, knowledge, and power at the start of the show. He has a motivation too, but it's a bad motivation. Iroh's role isn't to make Zuko a better fighter, it's to make him a better person.
Also his rejection is the thing that finally makes Zuko realize that he is f'n everything up. He, I would say, is the disappointed mentor. Who gives up and decides to go help the good guys himself, like a reverse evil mentor.
Plus, in a way, Zuko's character arc was his character arc. We watched the lessons he gave grow Zuko into the kind of man that could renounce his family, fight for what is right and become the Fire Lord his people needed. By the time that happens, the conflict is over and Iroh's death wouldn't serve any real purpose then.
@@softevilkitten I didn't interpret Iroh's refusal to speak to Zuko for the start of season three as him giving up on Zuko. Personally, I don't think that Iroh would ever really give up on Zuko. What I think happened is that Iroh realized that Zuko needed to figure out that he wasn't happy being his father's son for himself. I think that Iroh's silence was, paradoxically, him doing what he always does, which is whatever is best for Zuko. Iroh had been trying to tell Zuko for years that being his father's obedient prince wouldn't make him happy, but it wasn't sinking in. I think that finally Iroh realized that the only way Zuko would really understand that is to figure it out for himself, on his own.
The way I always saw those scenes in the prison cell was that Iroh desperately WANTED to tell Zuko that he wasn't angry with him, and to tell him what he should do, but he knew that this was something Zuko HAD to do on his own.
@@zoro115-s6b I don't disagree, but there was also a lot of sadnesses, frustration and disappointment on that scene. He acted like a person, a wise one but still. I don't think he was sure Zuko would make the right decision in the end. But I could be wrong, I haven't watched the series in ages.
"A dead character can't grow, can't develop, can't have interesting dynamics with other characters" As a necromancy enthusiast I strongly disagree with this sentiment.
Grin. Although seriously, somebody should do a count of mentors who "die" but still keep interacting through resurrection, plot holes, dreams, visions, you name it... Just because you "died" doesn't mean your Plot Armour doesn't still work! 🙄
Never stopped superhero comics.
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Reminds me of poor King Kai who had to deal with training Goku and his bunch of misfits all the time even after it got him killed...
Mentor: *dies*
You: *rolls 19 in raise death knight*
Mentor: *stares deathly*
Everybody always goes after we necromancers, but sometimes a guy just wants to raise a family...
Alternate ending to the video:
Red: "Wait, by teaching you guys this stuff, that makes me a mentor, doesn't it? Ah crap...."
YES
Red, glancing at Death: "But I haven't finished teaching them yet, or finished my arc with Blue!"
Death: [Shakes scythe in frustration.]
But Red is a trickster mentor, and genre savvy, so therefore the safest. Unless they're wrong about what genre they're in -- then they're in danger. The narrative can be vicious with irony and perceived hubris.
Bye, Red 😔
I hope she sees this XD
Mentor: "I'm gonna be nice and assist young heroes!"
Plot: *So you have chosen.. Death.*
Iroh: *Uno Reverse Card*
No Buddy to be fair Iroh was the an antagonist(Zuko) mentor.
@@CrystalArtest that taught him to teach the better choice
What if there was a story that follows an immortal mentor of heroes that dies for every hero he teaches to give them an angst boost, I could see a webcomic or webnovel about that concept.
@@CrystalArtest
Iroh had little private mentor moments with everyone in the protagonist team as well sprinkled throughout the series usually over a cup of tea, and almost always gave them some sort of insight that would influence them subtly from then on. He even pulled off a post death mentor moment with Korra.
8:08
actually, there is one character role more deadly than any other in fiction
CHILD IN GERMAN FAIRY TALE
D A S K I N D E R S H R E D D E R
They don't actually die that often. They're absolutely put in deadly situations, and a bunch of them get horribly maimed, but the only child I can think of that actually died didn't stay dead very long and avenged his own death through fairy tale weirdness. Unless you count the little match girl but that's still an exception.
Maybe the little mermaid but I can't remember if the story said anything about her age.
There's also a weird trend though of children thought to be dead until fairy tale weirdness confirmed they're still alive.
@@coyraig8332 no no german fairy tales just straight up end in death a good chunk of the time
not like "trapped forever until he gets out" death the child just dies
see: suppenkasper.
as an additional note, german fairy tales sometimes end in "If they haven't died, then they are still living today."
@@ThatOneGuy-wr8rh the floor is made out of floor
Postumbirthermantibabypillen
Mentor: *exists*
Every writer ever: “your free trial of being alive has ended”
Why did you think Silvers Reighley Did not ask Luffy to join his crew? He knows what happens to mentors if they stick around for too long.
@@schwarzerritter5724 one piece has not ended yet! Just... You know...
at least they get a free trial, unlike parents
Please insert McGuffin to continue being alive.
Uncle Iroh begs to differ
Story: And the main character’s mentor is not only his mentor but his *father*
Me: Oh shit so he’s double dead
Nah the hero dies instead.
AdaylaDoorwalt 2002 imagine a blatantly evil father mentor
@@aldergodric4324 Blatantly evil mentor, who is also the protagonist's parent, who has "one last job" to do before retiring from active villainy.
Ooof
Plot twist the mentor is the hero who went back in time to train his younger self so he could save the world from a big bad that the hero accidently created and sent back in time.
Here's a trope variant I don't see often and I think has potential: a mentor who starts out as an Evil Mentor but turns good due to their student's influence... and DOESN'T immediately die in a heroic sacrifice. Basically combine the Reformed Villain and Evil Mentor tropes.
Funnily enough I’m writing a story like that right now and I’d say your right about that potential. He’s actually one of my favorite characters.
I just realized this basically describes the plot of Treasure Planet.
@@BigKlingy OHH YOURE RIGHT!
Half the reason I love that movie
Endeavor.
"Sometimes I light a match and let it burn to the end just so I can feel something."
Spider Noire was wonderful.
@City Watch Guard it's played for laughs
*Match goes out* "Awww!"
@City Watch Guard Least it wasn't Kain in Spiderverse comic levels of edgy
It was so weird hearing Nicolas Uncaged voice him
He WAS the best
_"The only deadlier profession ... _*_mom_*_ "_
I laughed way harder than I should have.
Especially when the sample image given has the classic anime "mom" haircut.
oh, and don’t forget the generic “hidden face” that appears in every mom memory flashback
It is not inaccurate though. I mean... look at Disney how many moms die.
8:07
When your mother is dying so you and your grandpa+His Egyptian friend+Some red hair weirdo you just met few days ago and had a fight with him decided to go on a trip to Egypt and beat up some Blonde hair English dude
"and mom" SHE DID IT SHE GAVE HER THE DEAD MOM HAIRSTYLE
Dead mom or dad. Or both parents in some cases. And THAT gets really juicy when both parents are dead.
My first thought when seeing that frame was "isn't that Trisha Elric?!" She has the same hair AND outfit, too!
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the major subversion to this trope: Kung Fu Panda. Master Shifu's arc is centered around learning to love again and mentoring Po, and the movie has that lovely conflict between him and his son that ends with Shifu being "at peace" after Po saves the day. At the end of the first movie it just feels like a funny fake out, but as the series goes on it becomes clear that his guilt was holding him back from growing as a master, and we see his character develop in a very Gandalf the White way. He's relegated to more of a background character as well, serving mostly as a guide to where Po should look for the next steps in his own arc. But it's a great example of how you don't have to KILL a mentor to have them complete their arc and maybe discover some new ones as the story continues.
I don't know, he just fits the reluctant mentor archetype. In fact, HIS mentor even dies, and Shifu has an arc thanks to it, like Red said about reluctants.
@@Tmanowns That's true as well. The first Kungfu Panda is where he has the most screentime and development, almost like it's equal parts his movie and Po's movie. And just because he's reluctant doesn't make him immune to death as well.
Excellent example!
Don't worry. I'm sure Shifu will spontaneously combust or something as the inciting incident of _Kung Fu Panda 4_ or whatever.
@@MusicoftheDamned He did get turned into a jade zombie in 3, leading to the duel of the father figures.
The worlds most dangerous proffesion
A villainous parental mentor
So, Darth Vader.
@@samanthazellers4620
YES
No Villainous Maternal Mentor!!!
@@samanthazellers4620 Or Viran (Dragon Prince).
Darth Bane
I want a story with a trope-savvy immortal being becoming a mentor in hopes of finally dying.
Yes please! 😁 And then further subvert it by their still being alive at end of story! (So many options there re whether they'd be pissed off, resigned, reconciled to it...)
You know he would only die once he found something worth being immortal for
@@coolgreenbug7551 "You became a vampire, my student? I know being immortal can be hard and lonely. So, I will do my best to teach you and keep you compan--" *dies*
There is a Webtoon about this called “You’re raising a Hero” or something like it
I laughed so much after I read this, I'm writing a story with a character *exactly* like this! I feel called out lol
I swear, when she said “The only more dangerous career is mom”, I couldn’t help thinking of Lisa Lisa. She’s a mentor, a mother, AND in Jojo’s(one of the animes which has killed every sort of character under the Sun, and also the Sun), and she still didn’t die.
Well, why yes, JoJo's does kill a lot of characters, it usually kills the "bros" and not really the moms of JoJo's. Like, the only moms that have been killed in JoJo's were either nameless or we haven't even seen their face, so I think this means that Araki supports milfs.
@@poxy5122 Mary Joestar is the only dead JoJo's Mom
Poxy the MILF hunters death wasn't in vain.
never watched it but is Dio the main antagonist or the most popular? if I watched it, it would be for Dio
@Munch Lacks remember, everything happened because some rock people got greedy
ATLA has at least one of each
Classic: Iroh
Scary Badass: Toph
Reluctant: Jeong Jeong
Wacky Trickster: Bumi
Evil: Hama
And none of them die in the series.
@@moniion7415 tbf Avatar isn't really the kind of show that kills developed characters on-screen but the point still stands lol
@@spiritvdc5109 Jet: "Am I a joke to you?"
Listen, there is nothing classic about Iroh. If he seems like a classic mentor, it's because all other mentors were based off him.
My headcanon is that Zuko's honour was up his sleeve the whole time.
Monk Giatso is another classic mentor
I watched Into The Spiderverse while I was getting a cavity fixed on laughing gas and let me just say, i barely remember the plot but it was extremely magical to watch.
🤣
so if i tell you the entire plot, does it count as spoilers?
@@trystanreadman1764 I think so lol, I hardly remember anything past the first 5-10min
I did the exact same thing but with Shrek. I had literally never seen it before and didn't know any of the plot.
Red: makes a trope talk vide about mentors
Red: doesn't talk about Iroh
Me: is that trope subversion?
Thundergozon - Iroh is a very atypical mentor, not terribly trope-y.
@@Ajehy Possibly, but you can always find a trope if you dig deep enough. Anyway, the joke is that Red bringing up Avatar is a Trope Talk trope.
@@thundergozon6439 Maybe Spiderman Into the Spiderverse is gonna be the new trope, it's already come up on another previous video.
@@Ajehy Iroh is kinda like the "evil mentor" in the sense "I used to be evil, and I don't want you to end up like I was." Past tense evil. Growing up in the fire nation greatly affected both Iroh and Zuko, and Iroh doesn't want Zuko to go down a dark path. Zuko early on rejects him as a mentor (like we see in many family mentor dynamics), and part of Zuko accepting Iroh as a mentor and somebody he cares about is Zuko learning to accept Iroh's help and advice.
@@ziggyjg2453 he's more like a combination of evil mentor, classic mentor, and badass mentor
Mentor: _finishes character arc_
CURRENT OBJECTIVE: *SURVIVE*
Mentor: finishes character arc
Mentor: Why do I hear boss music?
I understood that reference
4:52 I'm just picturing a hero breaking into the evil lair and destroying the doomsday device and the villain is just like "You're doing great sweetie!!" and the hero looks at them with this big smile because their parental figure is proud of them
"You cant just kill a character with potential and unfinished plotlines."
Danganronpa: Observe.
Lol, a similar thing happens with one of the characters of Your Turn To Die
His character "developement" happens WHILE HE IS DEAD
GOD DAMNIT MAIZONO
Chihiro, Mondo and Taka :(
@@librasuperstar3779 ah right Mondo and Ishimaru went totally nowhere too (I'm pretty sure the overnight sauna was a gay joke executed with sheer subtlety)
sometimes they get posthumous plot resolutions though. Like Chihiro and (kind of) Chiaki.
Overly sarcastic productions is high schoolers collective mentor.
I'm 25 and haven't been in high school for almost a decade
Don't you put that evil on them!
Who’s planning the funerals then?
It will die when you go to college
Don't you give them that curse! This better be the peter b. Parker version
Something I realized watching this video: Obi-Wan was Vader's mentor AND Luke's. And the self sacrifice was him teaching both of them a lesson: Vader, that death is nothing to be feared, and Luke, that he needs to be able to stand on his own.
"I must go, my dear apprentice. We are approaching the Third Act, and I don't want to die."
Writers, trembling while making a mom mentor: “I-I want to kill them... how soon can I kill them..?”
before the story even begins :)
And then she turns out to be a tough security guard in a pub at night and the villain.
I see this and raise you: grandmother mentor.
I have an idea for a mom mentor. And the answer is:
No. That's dumb. It's a cheap punch for the sake of it. The character has as much of an arc as everybody else, why waste it?
Izumi curtis never died. Even though she pukes blood for gag.
Random thought: why don't comedic relief characters die more often? I feel like their deaths would have the heaviest, most-immediately-felt impact on the other characters in whatever respective group they're part of. Being often the most endearing whether through slapstick or sheer wit, their deaths can be powerful catalysts for complete and total shifts in tone (whether temporarily or permanently). I'm reminded immediately of two examples from drastically different sources (spoilers ahead):
John Lugo from the game Spec Ops: The Line and Maes Hughes from the manga/anime Fullmetal Alchemist. Both were cunning, cheeky characters with endearing streaks a mile long, especially so for Maes Hughes. Their deaths immediately bring down the entire mood, and without their enlightening presence remaining, the gang is left out to dry for quite some time- and in the case of Spec Ops, they're just left out to dry indefinitely. Losing the comedic effect of the group easily sparks downward spirals that are just screaming for plot and through-hardship character development.
I don't know I just think it's a really underestimated trope to have the comedy be the one to die.
Well we kinda get that in Valkyria Chronicles, not so much with comic relief but with a sort of "mascot" character who functions as the moral heart of the unit and thus their death ends up being an emotional nuke to everyone who knew them, and actually ends up skewing and shaping the character development of many other characters (which I actually really appreciated, since that's the kind of impact that losing a close friend would have on people irl instead of the classic thing in fiction of crying for 20 seconds and then going on like nothing happened)
@@spiritvdc5109 yes exactly, what you said in parentheses is exactly why I feel that the trope is underutilized. And glad to see it being used elsewhere too.
I've really only seen this done once myself (at least where they stayed dead): Wash from Firefly. Though Wash wasn't strictly pigeonholed into the comic relief role, he definitely had the most funny lines, and was a lighthearted contrast to the majority of characters who were various stages of serious, jaded, angsty, and violent in tone (the other contrast being Kaylee). His out of nowhere death in the movie Serenity was absolutely heartbreaking and gutwrenching, and the impact was made even greater and more painful by the fact the circumstances in the story prevented anyone from mourning his death properly at the time. He didn't even get any last words or a chance to say goodbye to his wife, just BAM, dead and gone. His death really heightened the tension during the climax of the story too, because if the lighthearted jokester pilot character could be killed like that, then ANYONE could die.
Honestly, I kind of whole heartedly agree because I'm a sucker for tragedy and emotional torture but the comedic character often is a well loved character. You would probably lose a lot of invested fans and leaving the story in a downward spiral isn't often welcome. Comedic characters exist for a reason lol. It also depends on how the comedic character relates to the main character and plot. Also if the comedic character is temporarily gone, as in they die or get replaced or something... That's just awkward... People get really invested in the comedic characters and if you swapped them out, you probably wouldn't get the same fanfare. However, I definitely think this is something that should be done more often.
J.K Rowling kinda did that by killing Fred Weasley. Sure he is not Ron in the sense of importance for Harry but it still influenced quite a lot
Mentor: "I have taught you everything you need to know. There is nothing more I can do for you."
Writers: *_"You have alerted the horde."_*
Mentor: you know kiddo, I think you have learned everything tha-
Plot: looks at mentor tapping at its watch.while.holding a baseball bat
Mentor: nevermind, have you heard of the tragedy of Darth plaugus the wise?
"Mentors die a lot"
Chiron in the Percy Jackson series: None for me, thanks!
Underrated.
Well, he already died because of Heracles, so does that count?
@@errorcrj110 Hercules didn’t kill Chiron. That was a different centaur. I THINK Chiron is immortal considering he’s a son of Chronos.
@@moonwatcher4047 In the original myth Chiron didn't die, but he WAS shot with an arrow dipped with Hydra's poison and combined with his immortality, it meant an enternal agonizing pain.
After his wound swelled up like a massive ballon, he asked the gods to change him into a constellation, which they did.
So I guess Hercules techincally didn't kill him?
@@acehardware2823 oh I didn’t know about that bit. All I knew about was the centaur who Hercules had wine with, and when the centaur accidentally touched one of Hercules poison arrows he died within minutes.
"Villains and mentors are the two deadliest career paths in fiction."
To that I raise you... THE HERO'S PARENTS!
And to that I raise the bad ass secretly evil trickster mom mentor. :P
@@Dragrath1 Does Kreia from KOTOR 2 count as that?
@@Dragrath1 The kind who lets her child who she shouldn't know is actually the chosen one out into a hurricane while also pushing her down the stairs? The kind who talks to her chosen one of a child about the fun of drinking alcohol after basically telling her to screw something up intentionally?
"I have spent the last twenty five years of my life preparing for this day."
"Mom, I'm fifteen."
"What, you thought I would just accept any random man to be your father? That I didn't need to cultivate the skills I would need to teach you? To prepare the resources and the ground for your victory today?"
"So what, you've never loved me?"
"Sweet child, I do love you. I just value victory more than either of our lives. That's why this is an illusion and right now I'm paving the way to your destiny, with our enemies blood. Finish this, and it will all have been worth it."
Shout out to the greatest mentor of all time: uncle iroh, he’s literally everyone’s mentor, even the villain who he guides to becoming a hero, and he doesn’t die in the series
Edit: wow 2.3K likes
I forgot how much I loved him, if he had died in the series I would have cried so hard
i feel the only reason this wasn't brought up is so that red has some plausible deniability about trope talk not being about how good avatar is
HOT LEAF WATER
Uncle Iroh is the greatest character in all of animation and nothing can ever change that
@@greekblade9376 Uncle, that's what ALL tea is!
Iroh’s a great example of a mentor that doesn’t die, he has his own character arc outside of his hero
No, Iroh's arc finished before the series even started, his only role in the show is as Zuko's mentor
In a way, he does.
The Great General Iroh, the Dragon of the West and hailed legend of the Fire Nation dies. Iroh’s whole arc is about burying that old version of himself, and making up for the past by not only being a father figure to Zuko and raising him to be better than Ozai, but also in the sense that he joins the Order of the White Lotus, and spearheads the assault on Ba Sing Se to free it from Fire Nation rule.
@@TheBingusBongus he was, I believe, already a longtime member of the order of the white lotus before the series even began. I mean, hes literally one of the head honchos of the organization
Iroh can't die because he's everyone's mentor and it'll be a while before he gets to the bottom of that list
"All mentors have tragic deaths"
*laughs in Uncle Iroh*
yeah and also kakashi this guy mentored both naruto and sasuke and went on to be hokage like a boss
dog technically he did die in his fight with Pain from chakra overuse. He was then revived.
Plot Twist: Uncle Iroh's tragic death wasn't his, it was his son's
@@joefloggg3257 Didn't Pain Ninja Magic a nail through his forehead?
chuckles in izumi curtis
You even draw the Moms with the "anime dead moms hair" 10/10
Yeah, I caught that too
There's a way to do this without killing the mentor: the mentor has taught them all they can offer in terms of teaching and they can't live the hero's life for them. Yep classic gut punch truth where the mentor has to just straight up tell them like it is no matter how difficult it is to hear or accept. No death needed but definitely making it clear that they're no longer the mentor. The students has now become their equal or even surpassed the mentor.
Example: *almost* all of Goku’s mentors
Edit: except grandpa Gohan lmao I’m such a basket case
Or another one would be like Gyro in jojo part 7 : the mentor has lot of knowlodge to teach but that knowledge doesnt make them overpowered and they cant solve the plot alone. They tag along with the protagonist who despite starting as a weaker caracter brings their own set of skill to the table and some minor additionnal firepower. As the plots goes the protagonist becomes equal or superior in power to the mentor but still understands that just like the mentor they cant handle the plot alone, so the protagonist still keeps the mentor with him.
So, sifu from kung fu panda
I was thinking Callahan in big hero 6 ot Toph or Jeong Jeong or Pakku, or even arguably Oazi in regards to azula from avatar the last airbender. None of them died but you can damn well bet that they lived to fight another day.
Like the hero becomes dependent on the mentor for guidance and is unable to make confident decisions on their own? Thats brilliant
Mentor: You taught me to have hope again
Author: Now let’s kill that hope in the most painful way possible
Death flag: *Ah yes my time has come once more!*
What show is your profile from
Better idea
Fake out death with the protagonist
The mentor was taught how to love, to care and to hope again… and then kill off the protagonist for a gut punch, sure they can be brought back near seconds later, just saved from the death from the power of Love or friendship but it’ll nearly shatter the mentors heart into pieces
Nagito shaking rn
Mentor= Kanan Jarrus
Author= Dave Filoni
Mentor: *exists*
The story 3-6 years later:
“I diagnose you with death”
My favourite quote from _Star Wars Heirs of the Empire_ is about mentor deaths: "Luke was orphaned three times"... I mean, what is the Hero's Journey if not a constant cycle of losing surrogate parents untill you become fully self-relliant?
1:16 "turns out death is a social construct"
I laughed WAY too hard at that
Death is a concept invented by the Jedi
*Social construct
Social contract also makes sense lol
@@nobuddy5442 thought I typed that, too tired rn lol.
“Death is a social construct”
Best thing in the vid
"Pants are an illusion and so is death"
-Huu the Swamp Bender
Man, I hope that Red will be OK, since she's mentoring us so good.
"Mentors always die for their proteges"
All Might: *chuckles* I'm in danger
Well one of the MHA abridged series did kill him off (granted they rewrote they story completely)
There's no point in killing him off. He's already "died" as in, he can no longer be a hero.
He’s in a weird case where he can either Die or Survive and it’ll be an interesting story
Plot Twist- but if all might gets rewind by Eri.. Then whats deku's purpose ??
*Reference to trope talk sequels ;3
I watched that episode where it was revealed, and now am scared fricking Shigaraki is going to kill him in front of Deku...
Dedliest occupation in fiction:
Parent in a superhero movie
Mother in a Disney film
Mentor
uncle in a spiderman movie
Nah a villain parent in a Disney superhero film who is a secret mentor and is trying to be good
Who's more likely to die, a cartoonishly evil villain or a really complex one? Complex villains are more likely to have a redemption arc and become a hero or at least hero-adjacent, but they're also more prone to noble sacrifices
Mother in general is a deadly job in fiction
Red shirts in Star Trek.
What's cool about uncle Iroh and why he's one of the best mentor figures is that he's basically all five of these. He's always happy, cheerful, easy to love and get attached to like the classic mentor. He's a man with a lot of actual baggage and tragedy in his past and subtly evolves as a character like the reluctant mentor but can be absolutely wacky and silly like the wacky mentor too. But when shit gets serious and he stops screwing around he genuinely becomes scary like the scary mentor and he was once evil or at least morally questionable in his past to making him a former evil mentor.
Uncle Iroh is basically the ultimate mentor figure.
I really love how at 8:15 Red made sure to give the "Mom" the infamous side ponytail. If you're a mom and you have the side ponytail, your death in that narrative all but assured.
So that means Trisha Elric was doomed to die from the start and it had no way to be averted? My poor boys!🙈
Yuna McHill pretty sure she’s the one who started the trend. If not, she’s at least the one that made everyone start noticing it.
@@alenazwiep2996 yup. Trisha Elric started the "Dead Mom" fashion trend. Many mom's soon followed suit
Uh, what about Kagome's mom in Inuyasha?
Samantha Zellers
She has a different kind of Death:
The death of Screen Time and Importance.
I like how the "mom" imagage IS using the death hairstyle. If you see a mom anime character with that hair, they will die.
What hairstyle is that?
The stereotypical hairstyle of an anime mother, who have a habit of dying to motivate the main character.
@@mirjanbouma A side ponytail. also known as "The mom's hairstyle of death"
Cries in fma
@@matheusm.santana6527 thank you
For me, I've been writing the Main Character as a mentor, who was responsible, in a way, that caused his apprentices to be captured by an Empire.
Now I realised that I had intended to kill him off in the first place and am slightly depressed about it.
Tropes are tropes for a reason :/ I subvert this trope primarily by not having mentors, rather my characters are all peers with different perspectives who learn from each other through mutual development arcs
just because youre following a trope doesnt mean youre writing wrong, its how the story comes out that matters
Subvert it. Death isn’t the only meaningful impactful way for a character to vanish. Heck it can be worse if they just vanish for 30 years and who knows if they are alive or not. All the main characters want to do is find out but unfortunately the crappyness of the world never given them the chance to breathe
@Tom Ffrench lol that's what I thought too
In my biased opinion there's no problem with having more Obi-Wans though 😁
as mentioned in the video, what matters is if you implement tropes effectively. after centuries of storytelling, it’s inevitable that certain reoccurring story beats work really well and show up in pretty much every story. just focus on writing a good story and don’t worry too much about tropes :)
Those arrows of death in the background constantly coming after those different types of mentors had me dead XD
You and every mentor out there
Thank you whoever liked this comment, thanks to you I got to take TWO WHOLE MINUTES, to get my own joke, and laughed at It like a dumbass
LMAO
@@boitata2617 LOL
Peter B Parker
As in “choice B” to prime-peter’s choice A.
Why am I only realizing this now.
Also Peter Ben Parker
@Tom Ffrench that’s his canon middle name tho
Actually, the B stands for bacon. No seriously, look it up. It’s great.
Ok, the "mom" frame with the classic anime side ponytail of every dead mom ever was very good, I applaud you, Red.
Red, as a fellow writer, you didn't mention the most important reason why mentors die: it makes the hero stand on their own rather relying on the mentor. Sometimes stories get around this by having the mentor retire, but by killing off the mentor, it permanently cuts off that lifeline. It's a theme of independence that is an extremely important part of including a mentor. The hero must now use everything the mentor taught them, without the mentor's guidance.
Indeed, a very good example of that is Giles' song "Standing" in Buffy's musical comedy episode "Once more with feelings" (I think in the 5th season).
@@atlantefou566 6th season, but excellent example!
I have to admit that Iroh surviving all the plot of Avatar TLA was a beautiful surprise!!
Also, nice to see you quoting The Dragon Prince!
And, I DIED with the MOM image... you got the hairdo right for the "mom of a protagonist in an anime"
Iroh survived the curse but his voice actor didn't. Rip Mako
Yeah, finally some The dragon prince appearing here, it is a great cartoon AND works with lots of tropes. I was kinda startled with its absense in this channel
*"WAIT I HAVE TO HEROICALLY SACRIFICE MYSELF NOW"*
"aw BEANS"
"You see, main characters don't usually die that often."
George R. R. Martin: I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that.
An Author Who Knows Nothing.
There is an exception to every rule
nah ,once john snow became the main protagonist he developed a thick plot armor he even pulled a revive from the dead
Martin did it by hiding who the main character was as hard as he could, and even then basically only John Snow seemed like a proper protagonist other than Daenerys who had some screws loose, as badly as her turn was handled there were signs that she wasn't really... protagonisty in the conventional sense... not that I think those signs should have led to what happened no matter what, but at least they were present.
He is the exception to the rule XD
As others have said, Stark wasn't really the protagonist of the story. Martin just set us up by playing on the expectations people have for medieval fantasy stories. But he actually spends a lot of time in the first book characterizing all of the other characters who do end up being way more important so he's actually being very clever there. And then because he pulled this really unexpected thing in the first book he keeps us on our toes for the rest of it because now to the audience it seems like everyone could die, especially when it really looked like Stark was gonna be rescued at the last second. But he actually pulls a lot of the same things you find in other stories to save some of the other characters but that just now has tension because the audience knows that there are some actual stakes in this story.
"Aaron is moonlighting as the Prowler."
The moment when you remember that Aaron's VA Mahershala Ali won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for a movie called "Moonlight".
The man has an awesome voice.
and then theres All Might who finishes his own arc, gets depowered, and gets outgrown by his student, but still stays in the story as a good character
He really should've died tbh
Also: Saitama. He as a mentor is like THAT professor with 500+ publications under his belt without the capability of ACTUALLY teaching.
Besides Saitama not being an actual S-rank as all professors should be, he's THAT.
Not to mention that he's pretty much completely unkillable, so he's safe from that narrative pothole.
I have a physics prof in school with a PhD in physics
Almost no one actually understands him because he barely explains anything
@@idndyzgaming many professor in my college are so old that they predate the requirements
For the last time "Just hit him really hard and don't die" is not helpful advice, Saitama.
Obi-Wan has to be the Best Mentor of all time: he trains both Father & Son in the Skywalker saga..
...and he only dies when he _chooses_ to die.
A Jedi is never late, nor is he early. He dies precisely when he means to.
Uncle Iroh knocked. He wants to drink some tea with a fellow amazing mentor who also chose when to die because he wouldn’t fight another person for no reason and both are fairly chill.
He also had the most powerful weapon, the high ground.
Your welcome
@@kanalithviper4744 Didn't Iroh just not die?
I haven't read the latest two comics yet, but last thing I remember he was still drinking tea in the spirit world not aging a day since he entered.
A mentor who gets bored of just teaching the hero and actually joins them in their party as the "badass old man". Now THAT'S a trope I'd like to see more
That’s basically Halt from the Rangers Apprentice.He starts off as the mentor then keeps going on these adventures. They are really good books and all of them 100% worth reading.
@@pineconeconeybear7172LITERALLY THOUGHT OF HALT BEFORE OPENING UP THE REPLIES - this is amazing
Ahem
Izumi kinda follows this
Also Thorn from Brotherband
"Why do Mentors die so often?" Given the nature of the stories etc, there is the expression "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword"
should really be spears instead of swords... since swords were often rarer as they were more expensive, associated with officers, who would high tail it since they were worth more... and spears were the most common weapon.
@@ilikedota5 Common but not as iconic, the expense and status associated with swords made them symbolic of power, whether noble or destructive, therefor the expression "the sword" more heavily emphasizes the concept of a violent way of life than "the spear", which is typically associated more with the phrase "tip of the spear", i.e. taking the initiative and being the first one in to do something
@@spiritvdc5109 @Chinese court dress to US Civil War officers. Heck Frederick the Great gave George Washington a sword as a congratz for screwing over the British (even though the credit isn't shared enough). Baron Von Steuben and Thaddeus Kosciusko don't get enough credit.
From UCLA professor Howard Suber's book The Power of Film:
"As long as the mentor is around, the danger is that the mentee will remain a student and not become a hero."
Or that the drama around the student is undermined because if all seems hopeless the mentor can swoop in to bail them out.
Then there’s just Dumbledore who fits every category and can be seen as either totally mental and callous or honestly one of the nicest people ever. What a character.
dumbledore just saw all the options and like ticked of every check and jumped off a giant tower.
But his death was a kind of senseless one.
"I'm a Verifiable super genius, who has people talking about my genius and skill above all other wizards. I have books written about my genius. I'm even the only being Voldemort has ever shown fear towards.
"Now! Let's throw all that out the window to activate a Death Trap I know is a Death Trap. Fail to get my Mook to give me a noble suicide, so I'll just get a child to assassinate me for the lolz.
"Oh! Did I forget to mention my Super Geniusness!? I know I'm dying, so I'll give teenagers things needed to defeat the evil overlord, that I could have had done in moments. But will do so now, without a clear explanation or a heads up."
=========
Even in death. The guy was a troll.
@@ibrahimbinimran4320 "Alas, it seems mentors are meant to die before the chosen one may fulfill their destiny. Oh Snaaaaape"
Red: "...the mentor usually dies..."
Me: *glances to Izumi Curtis* She's too scary to die, though.
If you watched The Conqueror of Shamballa, her Mentor arc came full circle, sadly.😢
Don't forget Iroh
@@yunamchill9169 Well that's not Brotherhood continuity ;) So she can be Schrodinger's Mentor - both alive and dead!
@@Soenel7 I'm very surprised that Red didn't mention Iroh at all. She never gets tired of referencing Avatar: the Last Airbender.
When most people ask me what I am, I usually say a housewife. But in this instance, I think I should call myself something different. I am... A MENTOR WHO SURVIVES THROUGH THE WHOLE PLOT! D
_"A mentor is someone who allows you to see hope inside yourself."_
*~ Oprah Winfrey*
" /I. Love. Bread./ "
*~ Oprah Winfrey*
@@breakfastsquad9871 -I grow my own avocados. Oprah Winfrey
And that is exactly why I don't like Luke in the Last Jedi.
Sounds kinky.
you know what I want as a trope reversal of the evil mentor?
the first half of the story starts out as a standard hero story, but then in the second half it turns out the "hero" was evil and the perspective shifts to the mentor having to stop them.
yes, the evil mentee
“Not always, this is sometimes a villain origin story”
CLAUDIA NOOOOO
I DIDN’T WANT TO BELIEVE IT
BUT NOW YOU SAID IT OUT LOUD AND I HAVE NO CHOICE
Wait, what was that show? Kind of interested but I must have missed the title.
@@patricialock1862 The Dragon Prince. Very good show, it's getting a fourth season next month I believe. It's on netflix and I highly recommend.
I always love it when Red uses the “oh no, who could have foreseen this” line. It always makes me laugh! Keep up the good sarcasm Red! 👍
Oh, and “Into the Spiderverse” is awesome!
Man, 2018 was a really good year for Spider-Man. Most painful death scene of the year, one of the best games of the year in the PS4 Spider-Man game, and a damn good film with Into the Spider-Verse.
Th whole “dead characters cannot grow is why I like the Magnus Chase series so much. The plot only really gets going when the main character (magnus) gets killed when the big bad guy Surt chucks a ball of melting asphalt into his chest and magnus takes him off of the side of a bridge into a freezing river. Then the real crazy stuff starts.
Really a Shame Surt didnt even appear after Book 1, the Magnus Chase Series had so much potential
If you think Magnus Chase failed at its premise, you forget that Surt was just the Catalyst, not the main villain. Loki is the villain.
Mentors are killed off almost as often as parents.... So don't be a mentor or have kids, kids
Nah the trick is to stock up on so many death flags that the story can't kill you!
Nah troll the reader and make the protagonist a mentor
.... by giving us this advice aren’t you essentially acting as a mentor?
Do I have to worry about your death?
Mentor your kid
"Lancers don't die."
Cu Chulainn: *Laughs in dead*
Also Cù Chulainn: Laughs in solo’d Herc and Gilgamesh
Lancer Ga Shinda!
Imagine being a Lancer
@@JarloftheNorth true but he was able to hold out against Gil in one route for like a day I think
@@beastkingthe1st771 I was talking about FGO's Nerofest, actually.
Look up Honako Green's channel. He manages to beat super bosses in the form of Herc and Gil with ONLY Cù
I want “Turns out death is a social construct” on a t-shirt please.
7:52 "Lancers don't usually die"
Tell that to the Fate series.
I came looking for this.
LMAO.
*cries in Diarmuid and Cu Chulainn because they deserved better*
another proof that Fate does things wrong
They fixed that in FGO (gameplay, not story).
E rank Luck.
Goku: "were you killed?"
Roshi: "Sadly, yes... BUT I LIVED!"
I read this in the DBZA voices.
@Young Man Both literally and narratively, unfortunately.
@Young Man Except Mr. Satan.
Nerdytimes Well...Frieza did blow up the planet...
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache ...that was Namek? Mr. Satan has never been there?
*checks*
Ah, you're talking about Super. That explains it.
"The only deadlier profession is mom"
Lisa Lisa from Jojo being both the main character's mom and mentor: push up sunglasses
In Jojo the deadliest job is being a jobro. In the part 1 there's a 50% death rate. In part 2: 100%, part 3: 60%. part 4 has a near zero death rate for jobro's. Haven't watched part 5 or 6.
@@thekicker2517
In terms of pure jobros and not just main cast members, Part 3 has a 50% death rate and Part 4 has a 0% death rate.
Part 5 & 6... oof... I'm not gonna say who, but people die. Good people.
@@thekicker2517part 5 has like a 70% death rate and part 6, has.... well technically like an 80% death rate but imma call it 95%
@@fangsabre not quite. One character doesn't count as a jobro in part 5.
@@thekicker2517 part 5 has a 50% I think death rate
"main characters don't die that often but mentors die like it's going out of style"
*Hirohiko Araki writing Phantom Blood:* _MULTI-TRACK DRIFTING!!_
literally like 2 and a half people survived that part tbf. 3 if you count lisa
but also this comment made me snort through my snack lmfaooo
(Paraphrasing from vid)
"There's no potential of a character being dead."
Magnus Chase: *laughs in dead*
Dead... and also not dead at all, because it turns out like 96% of all Norse God related supernatural stuff is handled by people already dead.
We all gonna ignore that all the respective gods of death in Rick Riordan books show up in the plot as a major character?
@@derpfluidvariant0916 They don't count as being *dead*. Gods aren't dead, gods can't even die except for the Norse, because the Norse have to be able to properly die.
@@selonianth dude.i meant the ones that control death
@@derpfluidvariant0916 They aren't dead though. That's... completely different.
Iroh and Qui-Gon are two mentors that very much subvert the mentor tropes but in two drastically different ways
Iroh subverts tropes by a) not dying obviously and b) not serving as the entry point into the story for anyone. He serves as a mentor for Zuko but while he does teach Zuko to firebend, Zuko is already a great firebender at the start of the series. And Zuko is already well versed in the world he lives in. Those traditional mentor tasks have already been taken care of. Iroh serves to make Zuko a better person. The culmination of that is to see Zuko be the king Iroh always thought he could be. Iroh actually can't die without seeing his character arc fulfilled because that would mean he never gets to see Zuko become the person he always believed he could be
Qui-Gon is similar to Iroh. His role as a mentor is to raise Anakin, train him, and teach him to become the best most balanced Jedi he could be. However his role in the story is the exact opposite. In the story, his role is to die before he can fulfill his role as a mentor for Anakin. Most mentors die once their role is finished but Qui-Gon dies long before and is forced to dump the responsibility on the lap of Obi-Wan, who didn't really want to be Anakin's teacher but accepted the responsibility to his fallen master. As a result, Anakin doesn't have the person he needs to raise him. Obi-Wan doesn't really know what he's doing and while he does his best, he is unable to do what Qui-Gon would've been able to do. As a result Anakin goes down the wrong path and becomes Darth Vader
"Well, as an older mentor figure, the most likely scenario is that I'd return only to be randomly killed by an enemy of yours so that you can cradle my dying body while swearing revenge so don't take it personally if I say that I sincerely hope we never cross paths again." - Captain Julio Scoundrél, Order of the Stick
Ah yes, but as a chaotic good character, he just _loved_ flying in the face of tradition.
And boy did he!
Thank you so much for acknowledging OOTS, I love that comic and none of my friends read it!
Also Julio is amazing
Order Of The Stick? Is that a comic or manga and who did it? Tells me more so I can find and enjoy this intresting story.
Order of The Stick is a webcomic.
@@zidaryn its a webcomic based on D&D, just google it, its on the website Giant in the Playground
"Lancers don't usually die"...
unless we're talking about Fate Series.
Lancer ga shinda!
Kono hito de nashi!
Catholic Priest~! *shakes fist impotently*
*a wild Sehai-kun appears*
I wasn't looking for this but *good Lord I'm ecstatic* I found it!
Thank you!
One of my favorite things about mentors is that they're usually far more badass than the heroes in the beginning -- they can't beat the Big Bad, but they can save the heroes until someone else can.
I'm fully expecting Iroh in this.
We gotta keep The Last Airbender in every single Trope Talks after all.
Edit: My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Preach
The dragon prince is becoming good enough to also appear in every trope talk
@@tijn0770 Nah it's mediocre
You got Hello Future Me mixed up with OVP
Kamikaze Jump Okay Companion Imbecile
Seeing all the talk on how mentors die, Magic: The Gathering actually had a good example of what happens when the Mentor outlives the student. Ajani Goldmane is one of my favorite characters, and before the War of the Spark fiasco, he was one of the best mentors available. The thing is, he outlived his student Elspeth. Ajani even lampshades the trope when he wishes that he would have died in her place. The thing is, this reignites his character, and he begins to mentor the gatewatch, specifically the pyromancer. As for the rest of the story, and how magic story took a plunge recently, Ajani is still an excellent Mentor who outlived the student.
Yeah its cool but its sucks how much the storys fallen apart since then :/
So about Elspeth being dead...
Well, "Elspeth is dead" was always a temporary state of affairs, they made sure we knew her death was uniquely temporary years in advance of her coming back, but otherwise yes, that's basically Ajani until MtG got hit with the bad writing bug.
tl;dr: "Aye," said Ajani, grinning his leonin grin.
Not been keeping up all that much on the MTG story. I know that the war of the spark novel was a hot mess and that Gatewatch/Planeswalker avengers feels kinda "meh" as a premise (at least to me). Oh yeah, and mind magic is too powerful, memory manipulation and time travel are both plot devices that in my experience results in plot spaghetti a majority of the time. Oh and there was the whole debacle regarding Chandra's sexuality. Don't outsource to writers who don't know your characters, yikes.
Other than that what has been bad?
(I know this is kind of akin to saying "I know about the poor seasoning, bad chef and strange spices but why did the food taste bad? More curious about varying viewpoints here).
D E C I D E D L Y M A L E
Nice to see Red bring up the Dragon Prince. I feel like the show isn't talked about as much as it should be and that it has the potential to be just as good as ATLA (especially from a writing standpoint).
Thank goodness at least one person in the comments is talking about this. Viren is such a great antagonist. Soren is such a great example of a redemption arc. Claudia is thus far such a great example of a character fallen from grace - her core character trait of trying to protect and keep her family together has never changed. I really hope someday Red will be using The Dragon Prince as whole as an example of tropes done well. Fingers crossed!
Is true, definitely has potential. I would like to see mentioned more often
I always thought of Gandalf's motivation as a mentor was general recruitment: we always need more strong swords and clever adventurers to fight off Sauron and the menaces of Middle Earth. He mentored Aragorn as well as Bilbo and Frodo, capitalizing on each of their strengths.
"Lancers don't usually die."
Cu Chulainn: are you sure about that
Hence "usually".
Lancers always die man
RANSA GA SHINDA
Should've summoned him as a Caster instead
Wrong kind of lancer lol
When you realize Iroh didn't die because the writers originally meant for him to be an evil mentor who betrays zuko at the end. I'm so glad he didn't go evil, I have enough trust issues on my own thanks
Holy crap, is that true? I would've lost it if Iroh had turned evil. I mean, come on! He's Iroh!
"I was never angry at you. I was sad because I was afraid you'd lost your way."
@@nicoski6347 no. This isn't true at all
Wait...
WHAT
Mhmm! Him becoming an Avatar Obi Wan off screen and living in the Acid Trip spirit world as a Bad Ass, immortal spirit Mentor. Is pretty cool.
Kind of sad that the Immortal Mentor was never covered though.
The only kind of Mentor that the Mentor Death Curse, can't touch. (Examples include Princess Luna (LunaVerse MLP), Princess Celestia (MLP), and Merlin (Immortal, and simply disappears in fiction).
The term "mentor" comes from the Odyssey, namely an old man literally named Mentor who acts as an adviser to Odysseus' son.
Kinda surprised you didn't mention that Red.
Indeed!
And he doesn't even die! (By the way, Mentor isn't even really the mentor figure in the Odyssey, it's actually the goddess Athena disguised as Mentor.)
I was going to say that Mentor was Athena in disguise but someone beat me to it
MagnuMagnus: So it is not derived from the verb “to ment”? Darn!
Tbf, it's not important to the way the trope functions. It's just a nice piece of trivia.
You called the entire first mentor type "The Obi-Wan"! I feel so honored and appreciated!
i think red wanted to avoid calling it 'The Qui-Gon' for your sake.
I just realised that in the She-Ra remake, the main character has not one, but two evil mentors, one blatantly evil and one secretly evil. Everyone on that show needs so much therapy, I swear.
I mean they're kinda both blatantly evil tbh she's just too trusting to realize it
Oh wait I just realized you were talking about light hope nevermind
"Lancers don't usually die"
(Cries in Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid)
I see the pun
"Lancer has died"
"You aren't human!"
*RANSA GA SHINDA*
Knew it would come up
Literally just read the part about the second yesterday....
When you’re so early, the mentor is still alive.
Red: *mentions scary badass mentor*
The MHA fandom: GET YOUR SLEEPING BAGS AND SCARVES EVERYBODY
1:33 Don’t think I didn’t notice that ATLA reference
No mention of Iroh but she had to sneak the show in somewhere XD
I would've rather heard her talk about Iroh subverting the dead mentor trope, but at least we got something
Obi-wan regular mentor
:dies
Luke reluctant mentor: dies
Yoda trickster mentor: dies
Palpatine evil mentor: dies
Yikes
Vader: hey Luke, want me to be your mentor?
*dies*
Luke becomes reluctant mentor to Rey: dies
han solo potential mentor: dies
Kylo ren/ben solo evil mentor that turns into good love interest: dies
Leia relunctant mentor: dies
Han Solo badass mentor: dies
ghi gon jin, mentor: d i e s
I already love Spider-verse so much, and hearing you break down the excellence of the storytelling in that movie just made me love it more. Thank you! :)
Simply put
Character: *Is a mentor, in some way*
Author: "So you've chosen death"