One reason for the reduction of powder for carbine use was the large amount of not burned powder thrown on the ground in front of the carbine muzzle when shooting the rifle load in it. There was no sense in wasting gun powder that would not be burned if fired in a carbine. I used to believe the difference in muzzle velocity (about 200fps) between the rifle and the carbine when firing the same ammunition in each was about the shorter barrel length, but one day after noticing some unburned cordite in front of the barrel I spread wrapping paper on the ground and learned about 3 - 6 grains of unburnt powder was recovered within 5 feet of the carbine muzzle with less than 1 grain recovered in front of the rifle muzzle. A similar finding was made when testing US 1873 .45-70 Trapdoor rifles and carbines. Both countries introduced carbine loads. Gunwriter myth has been about reduced recoil. I believe that is myth. I believe it was because the bean counters in both nations realized issuing fully loaded cartridges to someone with a carbine was the same as pouring 10% of the powder on the ground and that in the course of a year significant cost savings could be made by developing a round with less gun powder for the carbine.
Usual excellent video. I was interested to hear the wrapped carbine round was given a cardboard liner. That would have been before Kynoch, and others, introduced a cardboard liner in the drawn brass rifle cartridges. (And the drawn brass Snider cartridges). So it wasn't a new development. Great little snippet there. Thank you Neil.
Hello, coming to this video rather late, much enjoyed and educational. Please can you tell me what lead alloy was used for the bullets and were they hardened? I have an old bullet which apparently comes from a battlefield in Africa, it seams to be made of a rather hard alloy. The bullet shape etc is certainly of the type used in the .577/450.
Very informative Neil.Could you please tell me the HEAD OF THE CARTRIDGE THICKNESS.You can see all the sizes complete on youtube,but no head length.It must have been a fairly critical dimension,so as not to give jamming..Thank you for videos.
As a new owner of a Martini Henry long lever I have found your videos exceptionally helpful, especially in the breech block installation which caused me a problem. The question I have is my rifles but stock has several repairs two of which are at the butt plate end. My first thought was to replace the butt stock with a new stock, another collector commented they were well done arsenal repairs and added to the history of the rifle. What is your opinion on this type of repair?
No thats an official repair, done at the RSARF Sparkbrook or the Tower. Mainly using 13.5" stocks taken of MkI rifles in 1874. It normally has the Birmingham 1891 roundel stamped across the joint
those old wrinkled cartridges show just how roughly made something can be and still be effective. three dimensional computer aided design with robotic manufacturing techniques aren't actually necessary...
How do you know the exact time and place each cartridge was fired? The answer is probably obvious, but I am just curious. Great historical collection, I would love to own such a piece of detailed history!
Most likely based on which battlefield the bullet was found in. Most of the Zulu battles lasted less than a day, so if you find a bullet on that battlefield, you basically know when it was fired.
@@vincentlok8894 Also at Rourke's Drift the times are known as the battle moved around to different redoubts as it progressed. So a casing found in the hospital (for instance) was fired earlier than one found at the boxes of biscuits on the last firing line.
Neil, In your description of the Mk.III you say, ".....contained 80 grains of BP......", shouldn't that be 85 grains?. Or did I mishear?. Great video by the way. How do you differentiate between the white paper carbine round & the standard round?
hello there! I was wondering if I could still buy ammo for the Martini in my country by internet (Holland, Amsterdam) I looked up some sites wich actualy do sell the ammo...20x for 60 dollars and shipping they say without a problem. How can I purchase these rounds..lets say 1 box of 20 rounds just for my collection..plz let me know.
One reason for the reduction of powder for carbine use was the large amount of not burned powder thrown on the ground in front of the carbine muzzle when shooting the rifle load in it. There was no sense in wasting gun powder that would not be burned if fired in a carbine. I used to believe the difference in muzzle velocity (about 200fps) between the rifle and the carbine when firing the same ammunition in each was about the shorter barrel length, but one day after noticing some unburned cordite in front of the barrel I spread wrapping paper on the ground and learned about 3 - 6 grains of unburnt powder was recovered within 5 feet of the carbine muzzle with less than 1 grain recovered in front of the rifle muzzle. A similar finding was made when testing US 1873 .45-70 Trapdoor rifles and carbines. Both countries introduced carbine loads. Gunwriter myth has been about reduced recoil. I believe that is myth. I believe it was because the bean counters in both nations realized issuing fully loaded cartridges to someone with a carbine was the same as pouring 10% of the powder on the ground and that in the course of a year significant cost savings could be made by developing a round with less gun powder for the carbine.
Usual excellent video. I was interested to hear the wrapped carbine round was given a cardboard liner. That would have been before Kynoch, and others, introduced a cardboard liner in the drawn brass rifle cartridges. (And the drawn brass Snider cartridges). So it wasn't a new development. Great little snippet there. Thank you Neil.
Hello, coming to this video rather late, much enjoyed and educational. Please can you tell me what lead alloy was used for the bullets and were they hardened? I have an old bullet which apparently comes from a battlefield in Africa, it seams to be made of a rather hard alloy. The bullet shape etc is certainly of the type used in the .577/450.
Very informative Neil.Could you please tell me the HEAD OF THE CARTRIDGE THICKNESS.You can see all the sizes complete on youtube,but no head length.It must have been a fairly critical dimension,so as not to give jamming..Thank you for videos.
Excellent. Thank you for taking the taking the time to make this. Highly informative.
Outstanding, Neil.
As a new owner of a Martini Henry long lever I have found your videos exceptionally helpful, especially in the breech block installation which caused me a problem. The question I have is my rifles but stock has several repairs two of which are at the butt plate end. My first thought was to replace the butt stock with a new stock, another collector commented they were well done arsenal repairs and added to the history of the rifle. What is your opinion on this type of repair?
No thats an official repair, done at the RSARF Sparkbrook or the Tower. Mainly using 13.5" stocks taken of MkI rifles in 1874. It normally has the Birmingham 1891 roundel stamped across the joint
Great video...very informative.
Great information. Thanks for sharing.
Brilliant thanks.
Excellent video ,,thanks for the info 👍
where did you get the one from rourks drift
those old wrinkled cartridges show just how roughly made something can be and still be effective. three dimensional computer aided design with robotic manufacturing techniques aren't actually necessary...
Very informative!
wow you got way better condition than mine, good buy! mine was pretty badly rusted with split/rotted wood :/
Some time back, I read that these cartridges were used with a Spitzer tracer bullet, in WW1, for shooting at Zeppelins.
Can anyone verify that ?
I have heard the same story mate .
How do you know the exact time and place each cartridge was fired? The answer is probably obvious, but I am just curious. Great historical collection, I would love to own such a piece of detailed history!
Most likely based on which battlefield the bullet was found in. Most of the Zulu battles lasted less than a day, so if you find a bullet on that battlefield, you basically know when it was fired.
@@vincentlok8894 Also at Rourke's Drift the times are known as the battle moved around to different redoubts as it progressed. So a casing found in the hospital (for instance) was fired earlier than one found at the boxes of biscuits on the last firing line.
Excellent Many Thanks can you please upload videos about ammunition boxes.
Thank you.
Just curious how do you know the exact date that the bullets were fired?
I know right? I was wondering the same thing.
Neil, In your description of the Mk.III you say, ".....contained 80 grains of BP......", shouldn't that be 85 grains?. Or did I mishear?. Great video by the way.
How do you differentiate between the white paper carbine round & the standard round?
On his website he says 85 grains of 2F black powder
Also the carbine cartridge is a little lighter
hello there! I was wondering if I could still buy ammo for the Martini in my country by internet (Holland, Amsterdam) I looked up some sites wich actualy do sell the ammo...20x for 60 dollars and shipping they say without a problem. How can I purchase these rounds..lets say 1 box of 20 rounds just for my collection..plz let me know.
Is it actually legal to own the live bullets without a license?
What a bootlicker you are
Have a friend who has just recently been to the drift.
Thanks for a great video :)
Nice one. Many thanks Neil, as in Zulu I presume?
Bu mermilerin çapı kaç kaç kalibre bunlar
Bayram gülcü 5:20 577/450 martini henry mermisi. 45 kalibre.
Great info. Ive got some kynoch to fire.
nise vid
HellFighteR .557
*nize