Britain and Europe, eight years after Brexit vote: Could UK election reset ties with EU?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- It's been almost exactly eight years since British voters decided to leave the European Union, although that decision did not become active until December 2020. Much of this last decade has been marked by a turbulent relationship between the UK's ruling Conservatives and the EU. The opposition Labour Party looks poised to win back power in the July 4 election, but are pro-Europeans' hopes of a much closer relationship misplaced? Our guests argue that Labour leader Keir Starmer’s room for manoeuvre would be very limited if he sticks with the current UK-EU agreement.
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My 77 yr old mum admitted voting for Brexit was a mistake. But she’ll vote reform this week. Because she gets fooled by Farage every time. Can’t reason with her. The U.K. is full of people like this.
Please don't get me wrong, but I would rather keep people that can be fooled by Farage safely on an Island away from the EU.
@@RealMash ha. Excellent response
Yes, my mum voted for Brexit but won’t really accept any kind of responsibility. She also gets the Daily Mail because she likes the “tv guide”, she didn’t used to be like this.
NO!!! I was anEU citizen in the UK for 38 years.I WILL NEVER EVER FORGET OR FORGIVE the way they treated EU citizens during that referendum NEVER EVER let them back into the EU ....I left for my own Mental health !!
Thank you this is 100 percent true and very sad
I have a close friend and colleague who is an EU citizen and who felt the same discrimination. I have made it clear that I am pro Europeans and will always protect their place in the UK. Please do not consider all UK nationals as anti-Europeans. You have many friends in the Uk who are supportive of you and respectful towards you. Sadly, only loud ill-informed anti Europeans seem to have been heard. But only a slight majority of those who voted wanted Brexit - the remainder either didn’t know or did not want it. Now it is clear that the lies from politicians has damaged so many people and it’s scandalous.
True talk
Despite the economic pains, the destruction of the NHS, and complete lack of a single benefit from Brexit, far too many Brits still want to stay out, because they want to keep foreigners out as much as they can. Eventually UK will want to rejoin, but it's going to take quite a bit more pain before they learn their lesson.
This is completely true. I just hope that we learn our lesson sooner rather than later. Didn't want brexit, didn't vote for it.
I disagree to a certain extent. The reason why 70% think it was a mistake to leave but only 36% want to rejoin is because of the tremendous damage Brexit caused to the fabric of society. Friendships were lost, families were torn apart, and politically and economically it caused chaos. People just don't want to go through that again. Rejoining won't be on the agenda again until lots of our parents and grandparents have died. They refuse to see it as a mistake as it doesn't really affect them in any meaningful way.
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
Yes, democracy sucks when you don’t get the result you want. Now it appears Europe is sliding to the right.
learn our lesson.. with language like that, I for one am glad we are out.
Brexit mess
The EU is a mess.
Englands hubris = brexit
@@imck357
Perfidious Albion at its most inane, as per usual...
It was a mess to join. I never wanted it. We gave away everything.
@@iansmith2997 I am so glad that we are all worse off, just so you can be happy.
we made a big mistake by leaving, and this will and must change don't give up on us please, and yes we must accept this fact, Brexit will take down any government that tries to make it work, I give the Labour leader 2 years he will bend or be broken by it,
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
I agree with your sentiments, but it won't happen during the next Parliament. I foresee that the earliest that revisiting Brexit will manifest itself mid-way during the following parliament (i.e. circa 2030 or 2031). If support for independence increases as I expect it will in the 2029 General Election to beyond 60%, this will be the catalyst for whoever is PM at the time to revisit Brexit in order to appease the Scottish electorate and try to save the union. At that juncture, if it plays out as I suggest, then it will be too late and Scotland will leave the UK and the rump UK of Wales and England (Northern Ireland will quickly follow Scotland in leaving too) will find themselves picking up the pieces of what is left in much poorer country. That will delay a UK entry to the EU further still.
Speak for yourself, ya wee fanny. There's no chance of us rejoining. Get over yourself.
'Resetting' ties with the EU will be possible only on a small scale. British media outlets often mention 'renegotiating' Brexit and altering the TCA, but what's on the EU calendar in 2026 is only a *review* on how the TCA has been implemented so far. European Commission Vice-President Maros Sefcovic warned the UK in back in 2023 that this review would only cover the *implementation* of the deal rather than wholesale changes. Mr Sefcovic said customs checks at the border would likely remain and stressed that the TCA had not been used to its “full potential”. He said the review doesn’t constitute a commitment to reopen the TCA or to negotiate supplementary agreements. “The TCA will simply not be able to recreate any kind of notion of the single market.”
Yes, but that doesn't mean the UK and the EU can't sign deals.
@@johnjanssens8998 Unfortunately, the UK has signed deals. Those with AUS and NZ accept agricultural norms that are not acceptable to the EU. The EU only makes deals that are in the interests of an acceptable to the 27. For any deal it wants to come up with the UK better have something good to put on the negotiating table. Besisides, the UK hasn't fully complied with the TCA. Will it have complied by May 2026 when the TCA comes up for review/audit, not renegotiation? EuroNext that manages a large number of the Stock Exchanges in EU countries is putting in place new trading platforms and enhancing others in order to take over euro clering and other euro based financial transactions. There are some EU countries that have something to gain by keeping the UK very much at arms length and if it is in theier interest that's what they'll use their veto for.
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
@@johnjanssens8998no Cherry picking.
🇪🇺🇳🇱
@@fcassmann It isn't cherry picking if both parties agree. It's called bilateral agreements
Brexit was an insane act of national self-damage. Nothing good - literally nothing - has come of brexit. I really hope that within my lifetime we'll be back to the EU with our European friends and neighbours.
The EU has the same modus operandi as a protection racket, costing us huge to be a part of it and costing us huge to come out of it because of trade negotiations amongst other things being made so difficult. It's effectively a gang strength bullies charter.
That’s not true, despite Brexit not being implemented properly we are doing better than our European neighbours.
Yeah right😂
🇪🇺🇳🇱@@Dana-ml7sy
We're friends with many countries without submitting to supranational government with them.
@@Dana-ml7sy But it is. What we have is the reality of brexit.
Starmer wants to grow the economy but to do so he needs to tackle the drag anchor on it which is costing around 4% of GDP. Closer ties or re entry into the single market is the only way that he will have to make headway but ultimately we will have to rejoin. We are living in a global economy where our isolationist stance is folly.
"re entry into the single market is the only way that he will have to make headway".
After 8 years of having been told, proven by the EU´s rules, regulations, utterances from high level EU persons etc that there is no SM membership for 3rd country Uk, brits persist in coming up with this arrogant and proven misinformed nonsense.
And you wonder how brexit could happen? You are a country that has its eyes closed for reality.
No single market without EU membership, EFTA will not have you, and the UK is unfit to become an EU member. You will take the usual 20-30 years for membership. Get to work!
I have never really understood why UK voters voted the UK out of the EU. But that's their problem.
Well the EU is far right is why.
I've heard stories about Glastonbury coming in the way.
@@ChrisMurray-iw9ij I think the reason was exactly opposite. Far left.
@@janpetersen7440 the structures of the EU are brilliant when it's left or center ran, now I think you're seeing they can be handcuffs in the far rights hand, something we tried to tell you by leaving.
@@ChrisMurray-iw9ij I think many voters voted on the basis of emotions and switch off the brain.
The Scottish people didn't vote to leave the EU! They voted to leave not us
Glad we left, we're doing much better without you guys than with.
You mean the forigners?
hahahhahahhaahhahahhaha
Nice Scottish name, kraut.
Lands don't vote individuals vote. A majority in the UK voted to Leave.
We will return to the EU.
take a breath and repeat slowly.. We...Will...Not .Let that sink in.
You can apply. But the decision is ours in theEU. And at the moment you don't fulfill the conditions to apply. Get to work!
@@Red-lg9hvwe will not stop until we are back in the EU!!!!🎉😂
@@Trump2024TheOrangeHouse 20 years
Likely not, after all the hate believe me you will struggle to find a single continental European who would accept Britain back.
Absolutely not! The UK can do whatever it wants, but Europe has moved on. Brexit is Brexit… we did not want it, you chose it, you keep it. Europe was never forcing you at gunpoint. After all the hate and lies, there is no place for the UK to come back or expect anyone to want them back.
Uk is not united anymore
We haven't been since 1066.
the union is broken it can be saved only if we are back in the EU otherwise it is dead, the worst thing is we did it to ourselves, shame on us shame
Such a nonsensical comment.
More united than eu will ever be.
@@kmay4963 I see that from your reply you are living in a fairy tale the UK is already broken there is a border between NI and GB. So the union is no more and you lot who voted Brexit did it, you also lie to Scotland do you think that they have forgotten, and lied to the North about evening up, look around you at the homeless and the high roads all the shop which have closed Brexit is destroying the country. and all you can say is BS please get a grip
July 4th seems a new horizon and refreshingly new life and breathe to the UK citizens. The eventual results might be a mix but we wish success to all the constituencies.
"Could UK election reset ties with EU?" Short answer : No.
"Could UK reset ties with EU?" Then the answer is yes. I mean real reset. It will take time for EU to agree the UK is politically stable and committed enough. So a second Brexit won't happen.
BUT it will take a very long time and real change in mindset of political classes and parties.
Second, UK has to keep in mind they will never get the perks they negotiated over more than half a century and gave up on in 2016. They will have to follow the same path and conditions as new applicants.
Being in the UK is depressing.
Despite voting to Remain, I cannot foresee the EU welcoming us back and even EEA, EFTA and Single Market participation will take a generation to achieve.
The UK will have to look successful before that rather than the broken state it is now is.
The Conservatives have left a mess that will take a long time to fix given the size of the debts they have left behind.
We have lots of people who like to blame anyone but themselves for the problems that beset us.
Too many vote Conservative by default and will be prepared to do so again in five years.
Immigration is used a quick fix to get out of jail but is becoming less and less effective through over use and a lack of housing stock, which only exacerbates a real problem we have with housing affordability.
Although we need skilled workers we tend to allow droves of low skilled migrants in to do services sector / gig economy jobs such as mini-cab driving, parcel and food delivery driver / riders. In London alone we have 100k licensed mini-cab drivers. Yes 100,000.
These people need hospitals, doctors and nurses too.
In fact our population has risen from 58m in 2000 to 68m today.
There is hope but our politicians are usually obsessed with re-election to grasp some of the more difficult decisions that are needed so we end up in a spiral.
For example, our engineering disaster, HS2, need not have rocketed in the price from £33bn to £66bn+ but for the fact the politicians wanted more of it built in expensive tunnels to keep voters on side and voting Tory.
I hope the Labour party have to courage to change the voting system to proportional representation to break the cycle of tennis match-like government we currently have.
For example the Conservatives have at pains put in a policy of sending some asylum seekers to Rwanda the in-coming Labour party say they will scrap it.
In Europe (see a piece by Sky News) the German government is readying deportation flights to Iraq for failed asylum seekers, one of which states openly that he is off to France to attempt to reach the UK illegally because he fears deportation. Without the Rwanda plan we may end up like a lavatory.
But our politicians do not see or care about the mess they create.
Given the fact that Labour are now in government after July 4th, what was said in this brief discussion does seem to have been reflected in how Sir Starmer has appointed experts, has approached the immediate tasks at hand and in his first public speech to th media. Some of what Thijs said about stopping the lies and essentially proving that the UK is worth of being part of the European Union. It's only a couple of days, but there is a glimmer of hope from the UK at last.
As a french I am okay with British being out. Immigration change the politics of Europe without the mess of migration maybe the UK guys would never vote for Brexit. And tomorrow maybe the french will vote for the RN and without immigration ( the bad sides ) maybe those guys would have never won.
Immigration without any control and rules created a solution that is making democracy as risk of populist. But the problems are real.
= I am black .
I know it wil be worst and bad before it gets better.
I am currently bracing for impact. The Whole Europeans continent might go feral for maybe 2 decades before it become calm and civilised again. All that because of bad immigration policies.
The French always despised the British, even before Brexit.
If it does so and note this is an EU in a massive mess it wont be by consent.
A very interesting discussion, and I very much agree with Graham Watsons views.
But failure to agree a solution for musicians has devastated the music industry. It was entirely foreseeable and sheer incompetence on the part of the U.K. negotiators on Brexit on this and other matters including fishing and agriculture.
The lying needs stop. How politicians, salesmen or lawyers get work then? I do agree though.
@4:00 something along the lines of …”we think there is an easy solution” for the movement of artists
Well…the evidence is showing otherwise…the UK reaps what it sows, you can’t have your cake and eat it too…
Indeed, there's an easy solution of including artists on the allowed professionals list, but that does nothing in terms of the 90/180 day rule or in terms of the customs processes - and it includes the possibility for each member state to define who they class as an artist and to opt-out altogether. That is, it would change practically nothing.
There is an easy solution. Move to the continent and apply for citizenship. See? Fixed it for you.
With a far-right Europe? 🤷♀️
No
Been there done that
There is zero appetite for return to the U.K., you’ve just been through a massive divorce with so many other options why of why do you want to get into bed with someone who’s just given you 40 years of headaches. The U.K. was not happy with all its opt outs what serious person thinks it’s going to take the Euro, Schengen and other demands any new entrant must sign up to.
Those revolving moving images and footage in the background are very disturbing!
Funny how no-one is talking about Putin's influence in the Brexit referendum.
The son of an Oligarch in the upper chamber?What is left to discuss.
We know.
People are confusing recognising Brexit being a mistake, as the same thing as People wanting to Rejoin. Being asked how would you vote in a referendum now, is different to being asked should we even have another referendum. Most people I know who voted remain, would have rather we stayed in, but are no longer particularly interested in re-running the debate. Hence the stance of the Labour Party. If another referendum was the overwhelming popular opinion amongst the voters, the Labour Party would have made a second referendum a part of its manifesto.
Many of us voted for Brexit as we all wanted to contribute to an improvement of the UK on many levels especially for more equality. However, Brexit has been (ab)used by the Tories and their peers to widen the gap between the wealthy and the rest of the country.
It will take years for the UK to recover. The Tories should be held accountable for the disastrous outcomes. The UK should rejoin the EU, as the EU, is undergoing changes. Countries like Hungary, Poland, and more to come resist the present EU agenda. There will be a new composition as to how the EU parliament will develop and hopefully for the better.
The things that contributed to inequality in the UK were never in the hands of the EU. People voted for the wrong reasons in that case. The economic Brexit proposition was based on deregulation, i.e. lowering of rights and standards.
@@samhartford8388 In FACT it was based on the desire to avoid transparency rule for shady deals in the Londongrad laundromat. It was just sold to the voters with a mixture of jingoism, hope for climbing the class society, xenophobia and greed. Everybody with one working brain cell could see through the lies. No excuse there.
England needs serious education on how the world really functions. Unfortunately, relying on 18th century fantasies doesn’t work. The Euro and Schengen are words I suggest you begin using more frequently. You have no choice.
No other part of the world has tried to mimic the EU. Are Canada and Mexico desperate to join a customs union or political union with the US? Remember “in 2008, the eurozone and the US had equivalent gross domestic products (GDP) at current prices of $14.2 trillion and $14.8 trillion respectively (€13.1 trillion and €13.6 trillion). Fifteen years on, the eurozone's GDP is just over $15 trillion, while US GDP has soared to $26.9 trillion.”
Le Monde.
you can shove your croissant where the sun doesn't shine pal
@@aleph8888
Brexit troll alert!
@@aleph8888 Ever heard of NAFTA or CPTPP? Boris the nincompoop, even got the UK to apply to CPTPP post Brexit.
One choice is to not try to join the EU and that's what's happening right now.
I never wanted to join in the first place. Shoved in by Ted Heath. 1973 i was 17 years old. The worst thing that we ever did was join.
Hope it’s been rubbish here out of brexit we need eu for support we don’t have to join just better co operation and trade
She was probably right about exit but it should have been NATO. You would have avoided blowing your money on Ukraine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and the numerous American wars that encouraged you to strut around as if you were still an Empire. The most stupid thing was to forsake Russian oil and gas.
If you think Starmer is cautious because he doesn’t want to upset the electorate but really he wants to rejoin then he is not being honest. We have Brexit. I don’t believe the Brits want to re join & there will be uproar if he tries to do it through the back door.
I agree. If there was a referendum on rejoin, I am sure it would be all about the opt-outs that 'would be in the EU's interest to give the UK because the EU needed the UK more than the UK needed the EU'.
@@samhartford8388 I always ask myself how many old houses exist in the UK that were for people 20cm shorter-so that modern Brits always hit their head when entering the house...that could explain the attitude..constant head trauma does have consequences...I am at a loss to explain their attitude otherwise.
I ate frogs in Bangkok
Oh, just give it a few years, and they will in the UL, too.
@@RealMash Not frogs legs. Actual whole baby frogs. Crunchy BBQ
Honestly i find this show patronising against the majority who voted leave. Why wknt the wu and pur politicians just understand that we voted leave, we dont regret anything and dknt want to join. How many times our keaders trued to sabotage brexit and came up with an ultra soft brexit. Labour needs to respect the will of the people.
Absolutely
Slightly half the people voted for it. You spell like most reformers, poorly, but at least you didn't write it in caps lock.
@@olibirkett331 I DUNT GE WHA YA MEANMAN.
We need to keep the UK arms reach. France was right to have concerns about the uk ever joining in the first place.
Barge pole length, just to be sure ;-)
UK should re-join EU!
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
Was the best thing Britain ever did was leave the EU look at the state of it now france will leave nxt
😂😂😂😂🎉 partytime😂😂
Brexit disaster
Bad for the EU's finances, yes. Miss our money do you??
@@paullarneThe transition period for the services ends in june 2025 and it's the beginning of the real brexit. 🍿
@@larsbjrnson3101 Yes, and then the loans from the City of London to EU industries get called in. Your move.
@@paullarne Euro clearing is moving to the Eurozone with 1 trillion transactions a day from London. Your turn.
@@larsbjrnson3101 Not really. You have tried many times and failed. EU business owes London trillions. Your go.
All is open for discussion when we get rid of the Conservative government. The Tories have poisoned any rational debate. The biggest disaster to befall Britain sincerely the V1 and V2 attacks, but all self inflicted. British young people have been stuffed on working, studying and travelling across the EU. The blow lamp will be applied to Starmer's feet. Negotiations for rejoining the Single Market by the end of the decade.
EU membership is a prerequisite for single market entry, Google the Copenhagen Criteria abn see how many of them the UK doesn't meet. What's the UK going to do about its Australia deal ignores EU standards. Besides, the Eu seems content with the TCA for the foreseeable future. It's up for a review/audit, not renegotiation,in May 2026- As yet the UK is not in full implementation and compliance mode. Will it be by 2026? The EU 27 approve deals that are in theier interest and to theier advantage. What will the UK have to offer in a decade? Too many ifs and buts.
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
You do not negotiate, you apply. And before that you fulfill article 49, and as max wrote Copenhagen criteria. And then the EU decides if it will accept the application. There is no room for your illusion of negotiations. You fulfill obligations (yeah, that is hard on the UK populace) or you don't and are not elligible for even discussion.
that is how it is.
You are a third country like every other.
You should be a lot more concerned with your own country, get out of the eu, and watch the far right fade away, look at uk next week for example
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
Scotland never voted for brexit...Scots knew you couldn't get you're cake n eat it like little Englanders said
Not everyone is a federalist, the problem with Brussels/Strasbourg is that they're detached from their own culture and people.
yes but look what happened to the UK, please don't go down that road the other is far better, and there are a lot of advantages to being a Federalist
You could level the same accusation at every Parliament on the planet.
@@WinstonMelbourne-vt2vtThe EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
No. Our future lies in the big wide world outside the narrow focussed EU. If there are small improvements to be made to the TCA then all well and good provided they are in no way detrimental to our many deals outside the EU.
The speakers are so out of touch with both the sentment and the economic data of what is going on in the UK. Economically, Brits are niether better nor worse off after Brexit. Further, the sooner people understand that it's not Brexit itself that was damaging, it was the ruling elite cenerist politicians in the UK that didn't use the freedoms Brexit gained. Nor did the Centerist politicians from Tory/Labour/Lib Dems have a desire to leave, it was the people. So this debate is so EU centric and out of touch
What freedoms? Do you trade in gold?
Brexit has cost the UK £200bn a year in trade. That's pure Putin/Farage damage.
The Brexit vote was deemed illegal in British courts due to the illegal campaign methods used by Leave.
Cameron removed 5 million voters from the Referendum to ensure it was pushed through.
The elite in the UK, such as Trump's baby Farage, Mogg, the ERG etc are all extreme right and are paid by US lobbyist groups to ensure the UK is decimated (especially the NHS), so that US and Saudi investment conglomerates can buy up the UK on the cheap.
@@seriousoldman8997 Freedoms to banish the overburdening red tape/regulation that stifles businesses the Tories said they'd do but didn't. Freedom to take the City of London and it's financial services completely out the remit/orbit of the EU and ECJ rulings, Freedom to assert to the EU that Britain will not accpt a customs boarder down the Irish sea.
@@nickelroof6727 I think the Tories found out that is in reality it is actually pretty impossible to generate economic benefits based on those freedoms. 🦄🦄🦄
UK should join BRICS!
Still don’t miss being told what to do by the EU. Happy to trade in the manner the EU started, but each country needs to be proud of themselves and not try to tell others to live as they do. We are all different. It is the EU who should be ashamed for punishing us for standing up for what we believe in.
Ridiculous whining. The UK chose to leave the single market and the customs union, as in you voted for your own punishment. And if you childishly believed you could keep the benefits of the club when out, I suggest you seek therapy for your narcissistic personality disorder.
Could French elections make the EU more acceptable to the UK?
If you vote in Reform UK it may be a match made in (far right) heaven.
@@peabase it is growing french nationalism and EU scepticism that might make the EU more attractive. It's the pressure of migration that is re-establishing the borders in Europe.
Reforms apologists for Putin make them unacceptable. The new paradigm is a difference between a federalist Europe and a collection of sovereign states working together for mutual protection and common interest.
No. The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
More countries in Europe need their sovereignty, and decision making back from Brussels, as the EU parliament are a bad deal for democracy.
That's because you don't really understand democracy.
naaah, naaah. that's just populist Putlerite talk. we just need better regulation.
@@DacianRider The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. And anyone who doesn't realise this has been successfully scammed.
Nope, France should of been nicer up until this point.
"Should of been". Maybe France should teach you English.
@@peabase A true English speaker will be able to know what region of the UK I am from because I wrote it such as I did, that's mastery.
@@ChrisMurray-iw9ij I couldn't care less which region of the UK serves as your excuse.
@@peabase maybe we should teach you to understand English better.
@@ChrisMurray-iw9ij Your poor English? No thanks.
Thirty years of watching the EEC become the anti-democratic monster that is the EU. I never thought we'd be given the opportunity to express an opinion, but when we did I rejoiced in finally being able to vote to LEAVE! No regrets whatsoever about leaving, although I do despise the idiots in Parliament who spent four years trying not to honour the democratic decision.
Not with a cruella like Vin der Layern in the EU.
Better than "cabbage" liss Truss, me thinks.