Repertoire: The IDEAL Mahler Cycle
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Here it is! After discussing all of the symphonies and other major works individually, I present my IDEAL complete list--including Das Klagende Lied and the orchestral songs. As usual, I limit my choices to a single work for each conductor so as to offer the widest range of choices and approaches to this endlessly fertile musical territory. I look forward to seeing your own lists. Have at it!
I’ve been waiting for this one. No argument on your selections. In particular, always glad to see the excellence of the Bernstein Mahler 7 , Karajan Mahler 9 (II), and Haitink Mahler 3 (I) reaffirmed.
Here is an alternate ideal list with no duplication of conductors:
Sym 1- Ozawa (DG)
Sym 2- Klemperer
Sym 3- Bernstein (Sony)
Sym 4- Tilson Thomas
Sym 5- Karajan
Sym 6- Bertini( full disclosure - I wanted to list Haitink/BPO here but for me Haitink’s routine traversal of the first movement is a weak link)
Sym 7- Gielen (SWR)
Sym 8- Nagano
Sym 9- Levine (RCA)
Dad Lied con der Erde - Haitink
I look forward to each video and truly appreciate your commitment and enthusiasm.Major kudos.
Fritz Wunderlich on Das Lied is simply some of the best singing ever... so great.
Ok, here is my IDEAL Mahler cycle (4 and 5 are fairly recent, check them out!):
1. Haitink/Concertgebouworkest, 1972 (Honorable mention: Nézet-Seguin/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra)
2. Blomstedt/San Francisco Symphony (Honorable mention: Tilson Thomas/San Francisco Symphony)
3. Pekka-Salonen/Los Angeles Philharmonic (though for the first movement I prefer Bernstein's second recording with the New York Philharmonic)
4. Nézet-Seguin/Berliner Philharmoniker (Honorable mention: Fischer/Budapest Symphony Orchestra)
5. Battistoni/Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra (Honorable mention: Chailly/Concertgebouworkest, which was my favorite until Battistoni came out)
6. Inbal/Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra (a tie with Bernstein/Wiener Philharmoniker)
7. Bernstein/New York Philharmonic (the first one) (Honorable mention: Haitink/Concertgebouworkest, 1982)
8. Wit/Warsaw National Philharmonic Choir and Orchestra (Honorable mention: Nagano/Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin)
9. Chailly/Concertgebouworkest (Honorable mention: Tilson Thomas/San Francisco Symphony)
10. Wigglesworth/Melbourne Symphony Orchestra (no one seems to be aware of this recording, but it's fabolous)
Das Klagende Lied. Gielen/ORF Vienna Radio Symphony Orchestra
Late to the party as usual, but here goes:
1. Boulez (I'm as surprised as you are). (Honorable Mention: Mehta/NYPO; Kubelik; Horenstein)
2. Blomstedt/SF (Honorable Mention: Jansons/Oslo; Tennstedt/LPO; Walter/NYPO; Vaclav Neumann; Kubelik)
3. Abbado/Lucerne (Honorable Mention: Andres Orosco Estrada/Frankfurt - killer live version on YT; Bernstein/Sony; Levine/Chicago; Boulez/Vienna)
4. Abravanel/Utah (HM: Barbirolli; Szell)
5. Kondrashin (No one else is close)
6. Barbirolli (HM: Mitropoulos/NYPO)
7. Bernstein/NYPO (Again, there is no competition)
8. Tennstedt/LPO (HM: Ozawa/Boston)
DLVDE: Klemperer (HM: Horenstein; Reiner)
9. Abbado/Lucerne (HM: Klemperer; Barbirolli; Bernstein/RCO; and - hear me out on this one - Dudamel/LA).
10. Ormandy/Philly
*To my shame, I'm hazy on DKL and the song cycles, except, of course, Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen (Abbado/Lucerne, with a little musical crush I have: Magdalena Kozena - what she sees in that Rattle bum...)
My list. In some cases, I´m trying to add some (IMHO) worthy performances not yet mentioned:
1: RPO - Carlos Païta
2: BRSO - Klemperer (live in Munich, EMI)
3: Minnesota SO - Tennstedt (live, available in YT)
4: Chicago SO - Reiner
5: USSR SO - Kondrashin
6: St. Petersburgh Philharmonic - Thomas Sanderling
7: NYPO - Bernstein
8: BPO - Abbado
9: BBC PO - Kurt Sanderling (1982, BBC radio classics)
Thanks for your wonderful reviews Dave!
I'm happy to learn that there are so many Mahler lovers tuning in. Looking though the comments it's incredible to see how little consensus there is in recordings. Indeed we are spoiled with an overabundance of almost countless top notch recordings of every work. One for every occasion! Here are the recordings I reach for most often:
1 - Nézet-Séguin, Bavarian radio
2 - Metha, Vienna
3 - Haitink, Concertgebouw
4 - Fischer, Budapest
5 - Bernstein, Vienna
6 - Chailly, Concertgebouw
7 - Abbado, Chicago
8 - Solti, Abbado
9 - Karajan, Berlin
10 - Dausgaard, Seattle
DL - Klemperer, Philharmonia
In agreement with your choice of Haitink & the Concertgebouw for Mahler 3: whilst admitting it’s been imprinted on me since the mid-sixties, I can honestly say I have never heard it equalled (and that includes Bernstein’s earlier NYP version.)
Just a mention for Tennstedt’s Mahler 2 and possibly 8, alongside Solti’s which you have included.
Ah, thank you very much! I was looking forwad to this although I have the feeling I don't know enough Mahler-Recordings :). Anyway, here is my list (without the tenth and the songs):
1. Kubelik live (audite)
2. Klemperer (Emi)
3. Bernstein (DG)
4. Walter (Sony)
5. Tennstedt live (Warner - I think)
6. Mitropoulos - both recordings
7. Rosbaud (SWR-Classics)
8. Solti (Decca)
9. Gielen (SWR)
Great, great, great conclusion of your Mahler-video-cycle! Thank you.
Some recent recordings with two exceptions:
1. Nezet-Seguin (BRSO), 2. Jurowski (LPO), 3. Honeck (PSO), 4. Fischer (BSO), 5. Barshai (JDR), 6. Gielen (SWRS)/ look for Rattle (farewell BP concert), 7. Vanska (MO), 8. Boulez (SB), 9. Gilbert (RSPO), 10. Das Lied - Kubelik/ Baker/Kmnett (BRSO), 11. Song Cycles- Albrecht/Coote (NPO), 12. Wunderhorn- Bernstein (DG with Popp, Schmidt),
Well, here are my favorites...
1. Rafael Kubelik, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
2. Simon Rattle, Berliner Philharmoniker
3. Bernard Haitink, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
4. Eliahu Inbal, Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra
5. Daniel Barenboim, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
6. Herbert von Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker
7. Riccardo Chailly, Concertgebouworkest
8. Claudio Abbado, Berliner Philharmoniker
9. Václav Neumann, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
10 not yet a favorite
Some are tough to chose between. Varies per movement... we could do a ‘per movement’ favorite someday 😁🤦♂️🖖
Rattle for 2 and not Bernstein is criminal
I have quite a few complete sets (Bernstein I & II, Haitink, Inbal, Rattle) and lots of loose works by Walter, Barbirolli, Mitropoulos, Abbado, Reiner, Klemperer, Kletzki, Mehta and others. Among the notable performances in the concert hall, I remember the 1st by Mehta with the Youth Symphony Orchestra of the European Community (London, ca. 1989). Mehta killed it to the point where I can since then only listen with curiosity, knowing that I will never experience it the way Mehta served it that one time. Gary Bertini conducted the Spanish National Orchestra in the 5th in Madrid around 2005. The strings in the opening were like velvet and the tears were rolling down both cheeks. Other memorable performances in Madrid include the 2nd under Rafael Frühbeck and Das Lied Von der Erde with Juana Guillem (Juanita para los amigos), who is the flute soloist of the Spanish National Orchestra and she is the single person who has most often brought me to tears in the concert hall, including the first time ever, in Beethoven's 7th conducted by Eliahu Inbal, around 1986 or 87.
Unlike many people, I never come to tears with recordings, only in the concert hall, only when it's live, and only when I'm at my most receptive and the music is great.
You are a mind reader! I was just up late last night doing some work while listening to Karajan's Mahler 9. Afterward I came here looking for your recommendation on a Mahler cycle, only to come away empty handed. And then now this!
I have an ideal cycle but it breaks the rules, I have two conductors that appear more than once.
1. Ozawa, BSO (Blumine is fine and all, I still leave it out)
2. Fischer, Budapest - yep, I've agreed with this since I heard it the first time. It is truly exceptional.
3. Fischer, Budapest - really great, and the trombone is a little more confident in the opening solo than Bernstein.
4. Levi, Atlanta - Really impressive from this orchestra.
5. Barshai, German Youth Orchestra - wow. High schoolers? Yep. Wow.
6. Bernstein, NYPO Sony - A lil rough, but damn if Bernstein doesn't just poor his heart out
7. Gielen, SWR - I just have a rough time getting through the piece regardless of the orchestra. Still this is one of the best.
8. Wit, Warsaw - Blicket auf! First time I heard it, I stopped what I was doing and just let it wash over me.
Das Lied - Bernstein, Vienna - Yeah I know, it's the modified version, but it's just great! If going traditional route, Klemperer is still really hard to fault.
9. Chailly, RCO - The last 2-3 mins of this are just breathtakingly beautiful.
10 and Das Klagende (because it's on the same album). Haitink, RCO.
Not to mention the wonderful cover art on those Phillips deluxe boxes!
OK, I'll have a go. Obviously I haven't heard as many as you Dave :) On some I can't disagree, on some others I admit I looked at the other lists people came up with - great suggestions!- but thought it'd be good to suggest some different recordings here and there for variety and exploration.
So...
Symphony 1 - Maybe Boulez here, it is very good. I think the Bernstein 2 mucks around a bit too much in the second movement, although that is an excellent recording too.
Symphony 2 - Klemperer
Symphony 3 - Chailly, he is really excellent here as some others have pointed out, and the Concertgebouw in great sound.
Symphony 4 - Hmm for a different and rather Mengelbergian view, Gatti's recording with the Philharmonia is very interesting/ arresting. Ruth Ziesack in the finale is pretty perfect. Gatti has had a very spotty career but surely this is a/ the high point (so long as you don't mind the interventionism...)
Symphony 5 - I might go for Bernstein 2 here.
Symphony 6 - Very difficult given the other options I am using up! Let's put in a word for Karajan's performance. Yes I know the Andante is too slow (like some people's Adagietto in the 5th) but man is it beautiful. The whole thing is so dark and scary and well-prepared with that disturbing and beautiful 1970s DG cover art that I will probably always be coming back to it.
Symphony 7 - Abbado in Chicago. I'm not putting Kubelik anywhere here but I'd be happy with his set if it was all I had and in this and the 6th the sonics aren't so great but I'd put in a word for the brisk and exciting performances in both, as he always seems to get cited for 1 and 4. His 9th isn't so bad either, but again I suppose for an ideal list you want better sonics.
Symphony 8 - Well here you want some sense of occasion and good sound so I might be tempted to go with Jansons and the Concertgebouw a couple of years back, if only because its a very good representation of the work with a great orchestra and you get a DVD with it so you can participate in the special ritual this demands.
Symphony 9 - Gielen
Symphony 10 - I've mostly listened to Chailly, but I've cited him already, so maybe the recent Dausgaard recording from Seattle.
I'll be agnostic about the songs (partly as I agree about the Chailly Wunderhorn, partly as I don't know the Klagende Lied).
Das Lied von der Erde - Haitink/ Baker/ King
Phew! Thanks for that video, I know how much that one meant to you.
Dave, just know you are putting a dent in my credit card. 🤣
Thanks for the heads up about Chailly's Wunderhorn.
Great discussion and so many choices. Mine are:
Das klagende Lied - Chailly
1 - Kubelik (DG) even if he skips the first movement repeat. I also like Honeck/BBCSO on a BBC Music cover disc and Lintu (Ondine) for fabulous sound and inclusion of Blumine.
2 - Slatkin (Telarc) great sound and soloists.
3 - Boulez/Vienna Phil. Surprisingly beautiful and he does the oboe glissandos well
4 - I. Fischer. So transparent with Miah Persson, the perfect soloist. Also love Maazel with Battle
5 - Abbado/Berlin live. Also like Rattle/Berlin because he places the solo horn upfront in the third movement.
6 - Tennstedt/LPO his first EMI. It doesn’t get any wilder!
7 - Bernstein (Sony) He owns it and I also like his DG account if only for the horns in the second movement.
8 - Solti/Chicago, the only one I listen to because it’s my least favorite Mahler symphony.
Das Lied von der Erde - Klemperer with Ludwig and Wunderlich, though I think Haitink with Baker and King is its equal.
9 - Karajan’s live account for the reasons David describes.
10 - Dausgaard/Seattle Sym
Song cycles (3): Baker/Barbirolli for female and Fischer-Dieskau/Bohm and Kubelik for male (DG).
Des Knaben Wunderhorn - Szell for the orchestral part. Otherwise, I agree with David on Chailly, but I had already chosen Chailly for Das klagende Lied!
One additional: Berio’s orchestrations of 5 and 6 early songs with Thomas Hampson and Berio conducting the Philharmonia on Teldec. Terrific!
I think Vol. 6 of the Gielen Edition is the one cycle to get. Everything is at least really good, and there are multiple top choices for me in there (3rd!). With Bertini I did not like the 6th or the 8th, and there really isn't a first or top choice in there. Of the individual picks, I've now put Honeck, Haitink, Barbirolli and Chailly on my listening list - all ones I haven't heard yet, and I'll revisit Fischer and possibly even Sanderling (my listening notes from last time say I found it to "lack verve and conviction"). Always interesting and often fun to hear your opinions, expressed with such enthusiasm!
1 - Kubelik OR Boulez
2 - Mehta/Vienna
3. Abbado/Vienna (w/ Jessye Norman!)
4. Szell
5. Chailly
6. Karajan
7. Gielen
8. Wit (My least favorite symphony, but you're right about this one! Listened on your recommendation)
Das Lied (Haitink/Royal Concertgebouw)
9. Bernstein/NY Phil
10. Rattle.
My overall fave complete sets are still Gielen and Bernstein/NY Phil.
Thanks for this amazing work - and thanks too for introducing me to some performances (and in the case of Maestro Stenz, performers) that are new to me. But I have to throw in a vote for the Klemperer Mahler 2 - a great performance and also the LPs that introduced me to Mahler. These will always be a part of my life. Thanks again!
Back in 1.960 I was eighteen years old and already quite proud of my then little record collection but yet, there was no Mahler in it, and, living in South America, there was no much chance to hear his music at the radio or in the concert hall. Notwithstanding the fact that I was well aware of his place among the great composers (remember the Schwann Catalog?) I had not yet heard a single note of him. Then, suddenly, his music erupted in my life trough a mesmerizing record of his first symphony. My musical life changed forever and I became another happily obsessive mahlerite. Since then, versions after versions of his extraordinary music have piled up in my now very large record collection. Trough the years I have loved all the crowd of great Mahler conductors and enjoyed many of the wonderful versions of the first mentioned by you, but this, my first encounter with Mahler, cannot be compared to any other, no mater how great may they be. This now very old record has the magical imprint of the firs time, of a peak experience, and, from time to time, I return to it always with a great emotion. The label was Westminster, the conductor was Herman Scherchen.
Scherchens First is a GREAT interpretation! Certainly in my personal top five.
Bernstein's Mahler 7 changed my life. His performance was touched by the hand of Mahler.
These are fascinating choices and bang on in some of it. Really intrigued by the 5th by Stenz. My choices would be
Mahler 1, Tennstedt, LPO Live
2, Mehta, Cotrubas, Ludwig, VPO Decca
3, Boulez, von Otter, VPO DG
4, Bertini, Popp, EMI
5, Levine, NPO, RCA
6, Pappano, ASC, EMI
7, Bernstein, NYPO, Sony
8, Solti, CSO, Decca
9, Barbirolli, BPO but I really like the Karajan one despite being a HvK detractor. It feels rough, rugged and very unkarajan.
10 the two movements Mitropoulos, NYPO
Yes to the Chailly Des Knaben Wunderhorn.
Should have both versions of Das Lied von der Erde; uncontroversial choices
Walter, Ferrier, Patzak VPO Decca
Krips, Wunderlich , Fischer-Dieskau VSO DG, rather have the Decca Bernstein one but that breaks the 1 conductor rule.
Why do you hate the LSO Solti Mahler? I rather love his 3rd with Watts but left it out in favour of the fiery first. Anyway, another great video where I share 98% of your verdicts and musical polemics. Thanks
The Bernstein first Mahler 7 opened that piece up to me, and I haven’t heard one that equaled it in terms of comprehending the work as a whole.
Symphonies: 1 - Gielen, 2 - Paavo Järvi, 3 - Neeme Järvi, 4 - Fischer, 5 - Chailly, 6 - Levine(BSO), 7 - Bernstein (earlier), 8 - Wit, 9 - Harding, 10 - Lopez-Cobos (Mazzeti version).
We agree on 2 and 4. I'm not sure what my fav 6 and 7 are, but those (Livine/BSO, early Bernstein, the one with the pink cover) would be at least on the top 3 for me.
Improved list...
1. Berlin - Abbado
2. SWR SO - Gielen
3. Cincinnati - Lopez-Cobos
4. Frankfurt - Inbal
5. Concertgebouw - Chailly
6. Budapest - Fischer
7. NYPO - Bernstein
8. Philharmonia - Sinopoli
Das Lied. Vienna - Boulez
9. Boston - Ozawa
Das Klagende Lied - Chailly
1. Kubelik
2. Walter
3. Haitink/Concertgebouw
4. Szell
5. Barshai
6. Bernstein/VPO
7. Abbado/CSO
8. Solti
9. Karajan (Live)
Das Lied - Klemperer
10. Sanderling
Song Cycles - Barbirolli
Des Knaben Wunderhorn - Tennstedt
Thanks, Dave, for a richly enjoyable "Ideal Mahler Cycle." I particularly appreciated your point about affirming excellence wherever it is to be found, even where that means setting aside personal preferences. Here is my Ideal Mahler Cycle, reflecting, I trust, both excellence and personal preference:
1: Walter/Columbia Symphony (delightfully atmospheric)
2: Mehta/Vienna (gorgeous playing, singing and sonics)
3: Bernstein/New York/Sony (still the best)
4: Kletzki (Can't remember the orchestra offhand; an underrated version and conductor)
5: Solti/Chicago (first version; thrills and chills all the way)
6: Mitropoulos/Cologne (apocalyptic)
7. Maazel/Vienna (the darkest, scariest version I have heard in Movements I, II and III)
8: Bertini/Cologne (exalted, sublime)
9: Klemperer/Philharmonia (the grimmest, most nihilistic version I have heard)
10: Ormandy/Philadelphia (the first and still the best)
Das Lied: Hoffman/Melchert/Rosbaud (a loveable antique)
The Kletzki 4th was with the Philharmonia Orchestra and Emmy Loose as the soprano. Reissued as a 2-disc with his classic Das Lied, the same orchestra, Murray Dickie and Fisher-Dieskau (his 1st). Both recorded in the late '50s for EMI, so sonically a little dated, but both among my favorites.
Thank you, Richard, for supplying the information that I didn't have on hand concerning the Kletzki Mahler 4. That two-CD issue you referenced resides in my collection, thought I haven't heard it for quite awhile. The Kletzki Das Lied would have gottn my nod on my "ideal Mahler cycle" list, but I had already chosen Kletzki for the Fourth Symphony. In fact, I had used up all my contenders for "ideal" Das Lied condutors, and that's why I chose the obscure (but surprisingly fine) Rosbaud recording, long ago on Vox, but reissued, as I recall, as part of the Rosbaud Mahler box.
Thank you again for this wonderful talk! I had a really hard time choosing between Bernstein's Mahler 2, 6, and 7 because they are all my personal favorites. The same thing also happened between Karajan's Mahler 5 and 9 recordings. I eventually went for the Fifth just for the beautiful Adagietto and exhilarating finale. Here is my list with no duplication:
Symphony No. 1: Seiji Ozawa & BSO (DG)
Symphony No. 2: Mehta & Vienna Phil (Decca)
Symphony No. 3: Haitink & Concertgebouw (Philips 60’s)
Symphony No. 4: Lorin Maazel & Vienna Phil (Sony)
Symphony No. 5: Karajan & Berlin Phil
Symphony No. 6: Thomas Sanderling & St. Petersburg Phil
Symphony No. 7: Bernstein & NY Phil (Sony)
Symphony No. 8: Antoni Wit & Warsaw National Philharmonic (Naxos)
Symphony No. 9: Klemperer & Philharmonia
Symphony No. 10: Ormandy & Philadelphia Orchestra
Das Lied von der Erde: Reiner & Chicago Symphony
Das Klagende Lied: Michael Tilson Thomas & San Francisco Symphony
Des Knaben Wunderhorn: Chailly & Concertgebouw
Let me add my ideal list (most from my own library):
1st. Horenstein / London SO
2nd. Walter / Columbia
3rd. Bernstein / New York PO
4th. Kletzki / Philharmonia
5th. Barbirolli / New Philharmonia
6th. Szell / Cleveland
7th. Tennestedt / London Philharmonic
8th. Solti / Chicago
9th. Karajan / Berlin PO (Digital)
10th. (complete) Ormandy / Philadelphia
Das Klagende Lied - Rattle / Birmingham
Das Lied von der Erde - Haitink / Concertgebouw
Das Knaben Wunderhorn - Abbado / Vienna PO
DKL. Jurowski video
1. Ivan Fischer
2. Bernstein
3. Kubelik (preferably live)
4. Rattle
5. Gielen
6. Rattle
7. Abbado/Lucerne video
8. Tennstedt Live video
DLVDE Sanderling
9. Walter/Vienna (I regret nothing!)
10. Barshai (ditto)
I've been waiting for this! Cheers from Brazil
Nice work - a mammoth task. Just for fun, here's another list - all of them live concert performances. Each symphony is with a different conductor. In a few cases these may not be 'ideal' candidates (for instance, the sound for Rosbaud's No. 5 is primitive), but here goes.
Symphony 1. Kubelik, BRSO (Audite)
Symphony 2. Tennstedt, LPO (LPO own label)
Symphony 3. Haitink, Concertgebouw, Christmas Matinee (Philips/Decca, on DVD or CD)
Symphony 4. Mackerras, Philharmonia (Signum)
Symphony 5. Rosbaud, Cologne Radio SO (ICA Classics)
Symphony 6. Barbirolli, Berlin PO (Testament)
Symphony 7. Kondrashin, Concertgebouw (Tahra)
Symphony 8. Chailly, Leipzig Gewandhaus (Accents, DVD)
Symphony 9. Abbado, Lucerne Festival (Accentus, DVD)
Symphony 10. Berthold Golsdschmidt, Philharmonia (Testament, also includes Cooke's talk before the performance)
Das Lied von der Erde: Bruno Walter, NYP, Maureen Forester, Richard Lewis (Music & Arts)
Really curious about those Kondrashin interpretations...
@@estel5335 That one's particularly worth hearing since it's with the Concertgebouw - as good a Mahler orchestra as it got in the 1970s when he gave that concert.
Very tough…would like to pick Bernstein multiple times.
1. Ozawa/Boston
2. Fischer/BFO
3. Bernstein/NYP (DG, with Christa Ludwig)
4. Maazel/VPO
5. Levine/Philadelphia
6. Karajan/Berlin
7. Gielen/SWR
8. Wit/Warsaw
Das Lied: Klemperer/Philharmonia
9. Chailly/RCO
10. Barshai/Junge Deutsche
The Das Lied with Klemperer on Vinyl just about made me cry.
I heard The Titan live in Pittsburgh with Jansons. Electric! It was the best live concert I've attended out of hundreds. Happy to hear they are still cranking out great Mahler with their new conductor. David, great list.
I post here a list of mainly sleepers, not necessary my absolute favorites but still high ranked list
1. Kocsis
2. Haitink/BPO the DVD live, not the CD
3. Jansons/Oslo
4. Abravanel/Davrath
5. Neumann/Leipzig
6. Jarvi/NHK
7. Bareboim Staatskapelle Berlin
8. Boulez
9. Sanderling/BBCSO
10. Gielen (Hanssler), actually I like Sanderling better but DH has selected it
DLVDE. Mehta/BRSO (it's available in streaming only)
Das Klagende Lied. Rozhdestvensky
Wunderhon: Forester/Rehfuss/Prohaska
Kindertotenlieder+Lider eines fahrenden Gesellen: Haitnk/Prey (OK here I repeat
Thanks for the "Des Knaben Wunderhorn" Chailly recommendation, glad I hung in there until the end. It is interesting to hear the 1899 version compared with the 1902 version that I am familiar with from the Szell EMI recording with Fischer-Dieskau and Schwarzkopf, not only is the song order different but the voices are different as you mention, for a completely charming effect.
1 Walter Columbia SO (or Kubelik)
2 Tennstedt Live LPO
3 Tabakov Sofia PO
4 Reiner CSO
5 Chailly CG
6 Barbirolli Philharmonia
7 Bernstein NYP
8 Solti CSO
LvdE Klemperer Ludwig Wunderlich
9 Giulini Philadelphia Live
10 Barshai
Here's the list that I came up with, after months of listening and switching around recordings. I'm convinced that there are no weak links here:
1.Kubelik/BRSO/Audite (Live)
2.Mehta/Vienna/Decca
3.Fischer/BFO/Channel Classics
4.Previn/Pittsburgh/Warner
5.Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie/Brilliant Classics (Live)
6.Eschenbach/Philadelphia/Ondine (Live)
7.Bernstein/NYPO/Sony
8.Tennstedt/LPO/Warner
DLVDE.Klemperer/Philharmonia/Warner
9.Karajan/Berlin/DG (Live)
In the spirit of recognizing excellence where I've found it, in addition to the awesome Janet Baker + Barbirolli I find much to like in the compiled disc of Fischer Dieskau's Gesellen (Kubelik + Bavarian Radio), and Kindertotenlieder plus Rückert Lieder (Böhm + Berlin). I know many think Dieskau veered toward "barking" late in his career, but these mid 60's 1970's recording have none of that. Just a singer who, for me, really inhabits the words.
My list, keeping with the rules (otherwise there would be a lot more Bernstein haha):
1 - Boulez/Chicago
2 - Tennstedt/LSO live
3 - Bychnov/WDR
4 - Tilson Thomas/San Francisco
5 - Bernstein/Vienna
6 - Sanderling/St Petersburg
7 - Gielen/SWR
8 - Ozawa/Boston
Das Lied - Kubelik/Janet Baker live
9 - Chailly/Concertgebeow
10 - Barshai/Junge Deutsche
I’ve really enjoyed your videos since I discovered them a couple of months ago. I love Mahler, and so your enthusiasm for and knowledge of his music brings me much joy! Thank you!
DKL - Tilson Thomas
1st - Boulez
2nd - Mehta
3rd - Abbado
4th - Szell
5th - Inoue
6th - Karajan
7th - Bernstein (Sony)
8th - Solti
9th - Ozawa (2002 live)
DLVDE - Klemperer
10th - Rattle
There's a great disc of the song cycles (apart from the Wunderhorn) which you may not be aware of: Siegfried Lorenz on Berlin/Edel. Kindertotenlieder and Wayfarer songs are with the Leipzig Gewandhaus and Masur, while the Ruckert songs (in the correct order!) are with the Berlin Symphony and Herbig. Really beautiful warm sound from singer and orchestras, and a goodly amount of emotion. [I have two different CD issues, and only the cheaper one says who conducts what!]
I have it.
My Ideal Cycle (without Bernstein - I could pick at least one recording by him for any of them except for 10 and Das Klagende Lied):
Klagende Lied: Tilson Thomas (RCA)
1. Nezet-Seguin (BR-Klassik)
2. Jurowski (LPO Live)
3. Chailly (Decca)
4. Fischer (Channel Classics)
5. Mehta (Teldec)
6. Eschenbach (Ondine)
7. Gielen (Hanssler)
8. Bertini (EMI)
9. Gilbert (BIS)
Das Lied: Kubelik (Audite)
10. Ormandy (Sony)
Song Cycles: Christa Ludwig (EMI)
Des Knaben Wunderhorn: Boulez (DG)
You and I are VERY close. I'd pick Chailly for the 9th and my 3 would go to Bernstein (which indeed, you can pick nearly everywhere)
1. Kondrashin / EMI.
2. Metha / DECCA
3. Abravanel / Vanguard
4. Szell / Sony
5. Chailly / DECCA
6. Mitropoulos / Cologne
7. Rosbaud / Vox
8. Solti / DECCA
9. Bernstein/ Berlin / DG.
10. Sanderling / Berlin Classic
Wow! You're absolutely right about Phillips LP pressings - Phillips and DG LPs were miles better than RCA, Columbia, and Angel, at least in the USA. My most hated was Angel - they used a paper sleeve with a clear plastic lining. That lining would get bunched up and degraded by heat, and it would stick to the surface of the record. I can remember being so angry when I would open a brand-new LP and take it out of the sleeve to find that the surface was damaged for this reason. I could hear a crrrrunchhh crrrrunchhh at 33 rpm in the background of my Angel/Melodiya Shostakovich 6 or my Angel Previn Rachmaninoff 1st Symphony, for example.
The absolutely crudiest pressings right from the factory were for the old RCA record club - you know, the one where you mailed in a card with a penny taped to it, and they would mail you the record of the month even if you turned it down... Those LPs were made of even worse material than the ones in the record stores. And the cassette tapes that would botch the second time you played them in your car.
1 - Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
2 - Slatkin/St Louis
3 - Bernstein/New York (Sony)
4 - Abravanel/Utah
5 - Barbirolli/New Philharmonia
6 - Harold Farberman/LSO
7 - Neumann/Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
8 - Ozawa/Boston
Das Lied - Barker/King/Hatink/Concertgebouw
9 - Karajan/Berlin Live or Ancerl/Czech
10 - Wigglesworth/BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Song Cycles - Barker/Barbirolli or Andreas Schmidt/Lopez-Cobos
Des knaben wunderhorn - Baker/Evans/Wyn Morris/London Philharmonic
Das klagende Lied - Chailly/RSO Berlin
1: Kubelik
2: Bertini
3: Litton
4: Reiner
5: Barshai
6: Pappano
7: Chailly
8: Solti
9: Karajan (Live)
"10": Rattle
Erde: Klemperer
I just moved to Pittsburgh so your 👍 for the horn section are appreciated.
You won't be disappointed. I heard Honeck conduct Mahler 2 a couple of years ago at Heinz Hall. Wow!
Great episode!
Das Klagende Lied - San Francisco/MTT - coincidentally, I listened to this a few hours before watching this video
1. Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra/Chailly (Decca) - at least lately
2. San Francisco Symphony/Blomstedt (London)
3. I can't choose between Los Angeles/Salonen (Sony) or Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra/Haitink (Philips)
4. New York Philharmonic/Bernstein (CBS/Sony) - you changed my mind on this, Cleveland Orchestra/Dohnanyi/Upshaw was my favorite for years
5. Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Abbado (DG)
6. Vienna Philharmonic/Boulez (DG) - I know, most consider it uninteresting to bad but I love it
7. New York Philharmonic/Bernstein (CBS/Sony) - remarkable!!!
8. no opinion
Das Lied - no opinion
9. Berlin Philharmonic/Karajan (DG)
10. no opinion
OK, call it a work-in-progress, but here’s my stab at an “ideal” Mahler box:
1 - Rosbaud
2 - Scherchen
3 - Martinon (So many great records of the 3rd, incl. Barbirolli & Bernstein, that could have filled this slot, but I am sticking to the rule that no conductor should appear twice. Martinon does his usual smart, tasteful work here, a great 3rd from someone who doesn’t usually do Mahler.)
4 - Reiner (Reiner’s one-off is among the greatest recordings of this symphony which, I’ll confess isn’t otherwise a personal fave.)
5 - Barbirolli (I wanted to put Barbirolli in the slot for the 3rd - he delivered one of the greatest 3rds ever - but his 5th is really unchallengeable. No one else comes close in this piece.)
6 - Nanut (Nanut was an excellent Mahlerian but is not taken seriously because his releases are forever trapped in budget disc hell. Nevertheless, Nanut’s 1st, 4th and 6th are all interesting, and his 6th is truly great, a personal fave. Only his 2nd is kind of a dud. There were so many other great contenders here, too, including Barbirolli multiple times, Segerstam, Mitropoulos, etc.)
7 - Bernstein, of course.
8 - Horenstein (sorry, this is my least favourite Mahler work, and Horenstein does as well with it as anyone.)
Das Lied van der Erde - Klemperer
9 - Ancerl (a most thrilling and engrossing take on a work that can easily drag in lesser hands, Ancerl’s is my “desert isle” 9th.)
1. Kubelik
2. Abbado, Lucerne
3. Haitink 1
4. Fischer
5. Gielen
6. Gergiev, LSO
7. Bernstein
8. Tennstedt, LPO (the live one on the orchestra's own label
9. Chailly
Wunderhorn: some cheating here. I love Boulez with Gerhaher and Kozena, but I'll take that one as my pick for the adagio of the 10th, which leaves room for Herreweghe/Connoly/Henschel (period instruments, yes *ghasp*)
Short song cycles: Baker/Barbirolli for female voice, Gerhaher/Nagano for a male option
Das Lied: Klemperer
I've never understood the enthusiasm for the Bertini Mahler cycle. I've tried, given up, tried again, given up, tried yet again, finally given up for good. The performances are certainly consistent; consistently faceless. Surely in Mahler, as with any composer, but especially with Mahler, it's imperative that the conductor take some sort of interpretive stance; it's called INTERPRETATION, for God's sake. Bertini consistently avoids the challenge and ops to wimp out. If anyone wants my copy, I'll be more than happy to unload it. Otherwise, I'll probably start using the discs as drink coasters, lol.
Well, I think you're completely wrong in your characterization, but your taste is what it is and that's fine.
Okay Dave: I think I bent the rules because my song cycle set is missing the Ruckert Lieder but here it goes:
1st Muti Philly. Underrated and amazing.
2nd MTT San Francisco (Lorraine hunt lieberson is divine as is the rest of the SFS Chorus
3rd Bernstein NY Early
4th Kubelik BRSO
5th Metha LA Phil (already used NY Phil but I think one is pretty good too)
6th Barbirolli Philharmonia I love the slow opening.
7th Boulez Cleveland, weird but great
8th Solti Chicago. Best sound,
9th Abbado Lucerne 2010 and it’s a glorious fitting tribute to all he did with them.
10th Rattle Berlin
Das Lied von der Erde: Wunderlich Fischer Dieskau Krips Vienna Symphony. Sound isn’t as good as Klemperer but they both sing the crap out of it.
Other song cycles that happens to have another Das Lied von der Erde: :
Haitink and Concertgebouw w/ Hermann Prey, JSQ and Jessye Norman.
Kalgende Lied Chailly DSO Berlin
Whereas I'm with you all the way on the question of attempts at completing Bruckner's 9th, Mahler 10 is a very different kettle of fish. The problem is that the last movement contains for me his greatest and most heart-felt tune and frankly, even though of course he'd have more fully orchestrated it and no doubt other things, you cannot ignore it. At least you chose Sanderling whose commitment and lack of pretentiousness shines through in every bar. With the others it's far too complicated to make a list but I'm in the Kubelik for the early symphonies camp, particularly no. 1 which otherwise often seems unsatisfactory.
Wonderful discussion as ever, thank you. I recently heard your discussion of Tchaikovsky's symphonies, where you said that there are almost no good modern performances, and I wanted to ask whether you heard currentzis in the sixth and what you thought of it and of his performance of the mahler six? I loved both of them, but I really like currentzis and his quirky and different approaches to the pieces he performs. He's unique, for better or worse, in just about everything I've heard from him.
You can find reviews of those titles on ClassicsToday.com. Just run a search under Currentzis.
I just realized realised i must have 40 cds of Mahler. Do i need more suggestions?
It's your call!
You already know the answer.
Of course you do.
Wouldn't mind another 2nd.
@@scagooch Have you listened to Järvi?
@@janouglaeser8049 no. I have mp3s of bernstein and ozawa. Thanks for the suggestion.
Had the most 'fun' during the beginning, because I have the same choices for nos. 2, 3 and 4. Haitink really owns the Third, he made more great recordings of that one. And his vision on the Finale is awesome. One gorgeous flow, up to the climax. I think I would also pick KIemperer for Das Lied, his two soloists are awesome and Ludwig was in better shape than with her recording for Von Karajan. I don't know Honeck's no. 1 and Gielen's no. 6, for the rest some very understandable picks (imho) for f.i. no. 5 and no. 7. My favourite for no. 1 is Judd (Florida Phil), no. 5 would probably be Bernstein (Wiener Phil), no. 6 I just don't know (Barbirolli maybe), no. 7 Haitink & Concertgebouw (Live Christmas Matinée), no. 8 Ozawa, no. 9 Solti (London SO) and no. 10 (Cooke version) maybe Inbal. The Lieder Cycli? I would go for Thomas Hampson & Bernstein.
Since it's apparently allowed to 'honour' a conductor only once... then no. 5 is Barshai (Junge Deutsche Philharmonie), and no. 7 is Abbado & Chicago SO. And I forgot Das klagende Lied... not easy to choose between Rattle and Chailly, but let's go for the latter. For the Wunderhorn cycle: Tennstedt (with Weikl and Popp).
Yaaay! Now you have to do bruckner
no
@@ilikeplayingffftonecluster851 yes!
My Ideal Mahler Cycle (I admit that the more Mahler recordings I have (and there are a lot), the more "imperfections" I find in all of them):
Das Klagende Lied: Boulez (CBS/Sony)
1: de Waart/Radio Filharmonisch Orkest (RCA)
2: Kubelik/Bayerischen Rundfunks (Audite)
3: Haitink/Concertgebouworkest (Philips)
4: Inbal/RSO Frankfurt (Denon)
5: Chailly/Concertgebouworkest (Decca)
6: Bernstein/Wiener Philharmoniker (DG)
7: Klemperer/New Philharmonia (EMI)
8: Solti/Chicago Symphony (Decca)
Das Lied von der Erde: Giulini/Berliner Philharmoniker (DG)
9: Abbado/Berliner Philharmoniker (RNW-Mahler-Feest 1995)
10: Gielen/SWR Baden-Baden und Freiburg (Hänssler)
David, thank you so much for your Mahler experience! Brilliant! Opened me up to listening to recordings I hadn't considered before!
I really had fun doing my (current) list!
1: Kubelik
2: Rattle
3: Boulez
4: Haitink
5: Bernstein
6: Zinman
7: Solti
8: Tilson Thomas
Das Lied: Klemperer
9: Karajan
Song Cycles: Chailly
Which Rattle 2? CBSO or BPO?
@@stephenjcarr1 CBSO. That's the one that hooked me first, years ago!
Which Haitink 4? RCO or BPO?
@@estel5335 RCO
Of all the Mahler symphonies, No. 8 is the hardest for me. I just don’t get the musical argument and I dislike the excessive chromaticism. However, I agree with you about Wit and am going to listen to this as soon as I can.
1.- Kubelik / SOBR (DG)
2.- Haitink / Staatskapelle Dresden (Profil)
3.- Bernstein / NYPO (DG)
4.- Szell / Cleveland (Sony)
5.- Neumann / Gewandhaus (Brilliant)
6.- Farberman / LSO (VOX)
7.- Abbado/Chicago SO (DG)
8.- Bertini / Kölner RSO (EMI)
9.- Karajan / Berliner Philharmoniker (DG)
10.- Sanderling / Berliner Sinfonieorchester (Brilliant)
11.- DLVDE: Klemperer/Philharmonia (EMI)
12.- DKL: Chailly / RSO Berlin (DECCA)
My selection:
Das Klagende...: Boulez.
1: Kubelik DG
2: Tennstedt LSO EMI
3.: Haitink RCO Philips
4: Abravanel USO
5: Barshai
6: Barbirolli EMI.
7: Sinopoli DG
8: Solti Decca
9: Karajan DG live 82.
10: Rattle 2 (could I repeat Barshai?)
Song cycles: Baker/Barbirolli (I'm sorry. I should repeat Sir John).
DKW: Chailly.
DLVDE: Walter/Ferrier/Patzak.
I thought you'd never do a Mahler cycle! Nevertheless I'm thankful you did good sir!
Dave's days have only 24 hours too...
Now we need an ideal Nielsen cycle.
Let's start my try. I do the symphonies first, then all other works. And I exclude Bernstein. Why? Because I like his cycles so much, his Mahler is so near and so dear to me that it would be unfair to name him just once. I know that there are flaws, and the idea, to give the solo of the 4rd to a boy soprano was grotesque. Nevertheless, even in his strange moments Bernstein seems so right to me that either I must nominate him more often or not at all. This said, here is my list:
- 1st symphony: Boulez / CSO. Is this really Boulez? The one, who rips the flesh from the bones and presents the skeleton of music? This recording is so fresh and lively and colourful that I cannot resist to start with this one. I think, it's one of the best things Boulez did.
- 2nd symphony: Kubelik / Bavarian Radio, 1st recording (but the 2nd is also very good!) For me, it's just the best 1st movement ever. And the intensity gets not lost. No false smell of incense in the last movement. A hymn to eternity with conviction rather than piety.
- 3rd symphony: Abbado / Vienna Philharmonic (his 1st recording) I like this recording so much because of it's speaking brass in the first movement - it's like monologue and dialogue in the theatre. The Vienna Philharmonic s gorgeous, the strings in the last movement never stop to sing; and Abbado has a fine ear for details without overemphasize them.
- 4rd symphony: What a pity that in Brittens recording the soprano has a bad moment, and here and there some orchestra players too. Otherwise it would be my choice because of it's fresh and in the best sense naive musicality. I think that Britten understood perfectly, what Mahler wanted. But because of the flaws of this BBC-live-recording, my final choice may be a surprise also: Herbert Kegel. His view resembles very much to Brittens: It's a fresh, childlike, playful interpretation with some dark and grotesque moments.
- 5th symphony: I tend to Bruno Walter / NYP, because Walter has in my opinion the right balance of tempi. His Adagietto is reasonably flowing, all other movements go forward, and he has an intensity of a special kind, which I do not find in other interpretations.
- 6th symphony: Kondrashin / Leningrad. This is nearly insane hysteria. I know no other recording of any music, which has this intensity. It's an outcry of the soul. One of my most beloved recordings. (To be honest, I must add that Kondrashin does not make the exposition-repeat, but this interpretation is so great that I accept this decision.)
- 7th symphony: Avoiding Bernstein, I tend to Jansons. His performance is clear, fresh, the pacing seems right to me; he has a fine ear for the nightly colours and for the glaring finale also. Moreover, Jansons manages that the finale works as a steady rise to a climax without disintegrate in tiny bits.
- 8th symphony: Wit with wholehearted appreciation of Davids argument.
- 9th symphony: Karajan live. Again, David has said all. Nowhere Karajan was less karajanish than here.
- 10th symphony: And here is my Gielen. Oh dear, is this dark and disturbing and nihilistic. But it has tension, and colour. A great recording of this deeply moving farewell.
- Das klagende Lied: I disagree with David, I must confess. I do not a Bruckner to Mahler, but I think that in this case it's essential to differ the versions. The first is the stroke of a young genius, but full of a certain romanticism, as if Mahler tried to create a style out of remembered fragments of Weber and Marschner and other pre-Wagner-romantics. The second version has more of an opera for the concert hall, the scoring has much more ironic colours, the naivety is broken. That's in my opinion the cause, why Mahler cut the 1st movement: It was not only a question of a personal tregedy but also of an aestetic quality: The movement has no place for irony. This said, I think one has to have both versions, but each one in the correct state of what Mahler wrote. The 1st version is recorded just by Nagano, and it's a very good recording, lively and full of romanticism. The 2nd version is much easier to get, because all other conductors, who do the 3-movement-version, do the 2nd and 3rd movement in the 2nd version, so one can start with movement 2 and gets the 2nd version. And the best of these is in my opinion Chailly, because he understands the romantic irony best.
- Das Lied von der Erde: Klemperer, because of all what David stated (and it's marvellous conducted too, I think).
- Rückertlieder: Fricsay with Maureen Forrester - oh, what a beauty this is! Forrester has the endless legato, Mahler wants, and what Fricsay does with the ochestra is a marvel of breathing with the singer.
- Geselle: Tilson-Thomas with Thomas Hampson seems to me to have the right balance between stylized folk song and schubertian soul without becoming oversweet.
- Kindertotenlieder: Klaus Tennstedt with Brigitte Fassbaender (profil/hänssler). Very intense and dark and heartfelt. A wonderful recording! It's a pity that the 5th symphony on this CD is not the best Tennstedt did.
- Wunderhorn: I must bend the law, because of Chailly and all what David said abouhis recording. Otherwise I tend in this case (forgive me, David) to Wyn Morris, because of a for once good conducting (maybe, he was sober) and an especially fine singing of Janet Baker and geraint Evans.
1. Kubelik live (audite)
2. Tennstedt (LPO Live)
3. Honeck
4. Fischer
5. Abbado/CSO
6. Zinman
7. Abravanel
8. Wit
9. Gilbert/Stockholm
10. (adagio only) Boulez/Cleveland
DLVDE: King, Bernstein, Vienna
Songs of a Wayfarer, Kindertotenlieder: Ludwig
Rueckert Lieder: Baker
Des Knaben Wunderhorn: Mackerras
Klagende Lied -- don't care for it
Dave, which 6th of Gielen are you recommending as there seems to be two. The earlier 6th or the later live one ? Listening to the first recording the opening movement its a lot faster and sounds far better than the remake, at least to my ears ! It's exciting... I like Mahler to catch fire from the opening chords and Gielen does it for me when he is faster. Like the opening of the 2nd, it has to have explosive forward momentum from the off, and this is where Rattle (and many other conductors) fall down in these works. It's stillborn from the start ! But at least Gielen gives us two views, all equally valid.
Actually, there are three--I am talking about the one in his Mahler cycle, not the set with the double performance (one very fast, one very slow).
Dave, how about doing a series "Build your own symphony"? By this I mean selecting a symphony by a composer, then "building" your favorite movements from different recordings. For example, for the Mahler 1st I would build Walter/CSO for the first movement, the Bernstein/NYO for the 2nd movement, the Leinsdorf/LPO for the 3rd movement, and the Horenstein/LSO for the 4th movement.
That's not for me, although I could see the fun in it.
It's not for any music lover. UUrgh.
@@thomasmcgorry2176 Speak for yourself.
Well here goes:
Das Klagende Lied Tilson Thomas
1st. Bernstein Concertgebouw
2nd Klemperer Bavarian Radio
3rd Honeck Pittsburgh
4th Bertini Cologne
5th Sinopoli Philharmonia
6th Boulez Vienna Phil
7th Abbado Chicago
8th Tennstedt LPO
9th Chailly Concertgebouw
10th Rattle Bournemouth
I've been listening to Karajan's studio ninth recently (which is my favourite version). Funny you should mention the e-flat clarinet. I must say (as a former player myself) I cannot believe how that guy (if it was a "he") kept his job! It has often seemed to me that Karajan has something of a blind spot for "auxiliary" instruments -- and, in this performance, the e-flat comes, by some margin, the closest to ruining the whole effort. I must admit -- I hadn't noticed the missing of the cue incident; but: some really horrible sounding, out-of-tune, sloppily fingered, generally ghastly noises throughout (like a third-rate student, or something). I'm not sure how much input Karajan had with personnel with the BPO, but seemed to have an amazingly high tolerance level in this area!
Excellent talk and excellent choices, David. While I acknowledge that Karajan's 9th is, in principal, a great performance, I've always found it too objective to be truly moving. Of all of Karajan's Mahler recordings, I think I like the 6th the best, because I think that symphony can withstand that kind of treatment. Personally, I've always found Klemperer the most moving in the 9th. Sanderling's 10th, on the other hand, it incredible. I've never heard it played so vividly before, especially after hearing Rattle's ghastly Berlin version. Thanks for turning me on to that one.
Amazing list! Here’s mine:
1. Gielen (Hänssler)
2. Ozawa/Saito Kinen (Sony)
3. Chailly (Decca)
4. Ádám Fischer (C-Avi)
5. Stenz (ABC Classics)
6. Jansons/LSO (LSO Live) [I flip the inner movements to make it scherzo/andante]
7. Bernstein #1 (Sony)
8. Bertini (EMI)
Das Lied: Haitink/Baker/King (Philips)
9. Gilbert (BIS)
10. Dausgaard (SSO)
LefG: Nagano/Gerhaher (Sony)
Rückert: Gardiner/Otter (DG)
Kinder: Barbirolli/Baker (EMI)
DKW: Boulez/Kožená/Gerhaher (DG)
Recognizing that I can have some weird observations... when I hear Mahler's Sixth I hear either a wordless treatment of Romeo and Juliet (wouldn't Shakespeare and Mahler have made a wonderful combination had Mahler lived to a ripe old age)... or the consolidation of a dictatorial regime. I see naive innocence being devoured by the cynical application of power... oh, is that bleak. I could never bring myself to listen to it when you-know-who was President.
Ah yes, Dynagroove (better known to some of us as Dynaflop) ... brings back memories. I'm convinced this genius vinyl-saving innovation was inspired by the Dali painting "The Persistence of Memory." Belongs in the marketers' hall of fame along with the Edsel and New Coke.
What a great video. Thanks! It is so refreshing to hear a critic who loves the music. Your enthusiasm throughout this project has given me hours of enjoyment; things to laugh about, and things to think about. Concerning Mahler 9, I was surprised that you never talked about the history of the two Karajan recordings, vis-a-vis the Bernstein/Berlin 1979 live performance and recording. The background is both hilarious, gossipy, and also musicologically interesting - as told in John Mauceri's book, Maestros and their Music, and also to me personally by members of the Berlin Phil...
Go on, do tell...! Cannot leave us hanging like that--- may be a matter of slightly prurient interest, but how on Earth could the entire trombone section not enter in the critical part of the final Adagio, and how could critics be so deaf as to award the recording a Grammy when it was so fundamentally flawed by that breakdown? If, as one rumour goes, the trombone section was actually assisting an audience member in the choir loft who was "in extremis", well, obviously a human life is more valuable than a fleeting concert, but if as other rumours go, there was an element of sabotage at work, the truth should be firmly established one way or the other, once and for all...
Two of my all-time favorites are mono.
I've never found a stereo alternative that completely satisfies me.
Mahler 4 - Mengelberg
Lieder eines Fahrenden Gesellen - Fishy Dieskau with Furtwangler
Ahhh rca dyngroove, made your tone arm hop and jump! Also angel records (emi), were so badly pressed when you did find an original emi UK pressed LP of the same recording, it sounded so much better !
Paul G
I remember a company named Andre Puerrot that used to advertise the UK EMI catalog. They would collect the orders and send for them as a batch.
Ah yes -I ordered many titles from Andre Perrault back in the day. One of the few ways to get British and/ or German pressings of good performances ruined by atrocious domestic vinyl and processing.
Here goes: 1 Ormandy (RCA) 2 Walter (Columbia) 3 Bernstein (Columbia) 4 Szell (Columbia) 5 Solti (Decca) 6 Maazel (Sony) 7 Abbado/Chicago (DG) 8 Tennstedt (EMI) 9 Haitink (Philips) 10 Levine (RCA) Song Cycles Fischer-Diskau/Kubelik (DG) Das Lied Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer (EMI) Klagende Lied Boulez (Columbia)
And totally agree on Bernstein for 7, but if I have to pick one, well, his 3s (both of them) are by far my favorites (although Haitink is indeed beautiful).
Mine's a contrarian's list, to be sure, but my Mahlerian rapture has always been of the modified variety (in my formative years Sibelius and Strauss got there first, and Mahler has never quite toppled them)!
Klagende Lied: Nagano (original version) / Haitink (revised 2-movt. version). Having one's cake and eating it, Mahler-style!
1: Kondrashin - North German Radio SO (leaving aside the fact that Kodrashin died mere hours afterwards, with all the macabre connotations implied therein, this is a crackerjack perf.).
2: Agreed on Fischer (though I'll pull out Stokowski's live 1963 Prom for a really wild ride - vastly better than his later studio rec., and with a young Janet Baker in Urlicht, to boot!).
3: Tennstedt - LPO. I imprinted on this one, and I remain very attached to it - Klaus caught the work's 3-way tug-of-war between primordial darkness, Wunderhorn fun and Pantheism like few others, and even the odd imperfections sound all of a piece.
4: Britten - LSO. I'm not kidding! There are more polished versions around (and Joan Carlyle does get one entry wrong in the last movement), but Britten took in the work's sense of childlike wonder in a way that other, more 'knowing' performances miss, and he never slobbers over the music in the way that some others do (I'll keep Walter as an alternate).
5: Barshai - Junge Deutsche Philharmonie. A real sleeper. And with a youth orchestra at that (they play like Gods)!
6: Karajan - Berlin. Another Mahler Symphony that HvK did not smooth over. It's like one of those nightmarish John Martin frescoes come to life!
7: Levine - Chicago. Delivers all the lunacy without overplaying his hand (Lenny corrals Das Lied - that's the only reason I leave him aside here).
8: Abbado - Berlin. I've never warmed to Solti's overcaffeinated version, and Abbado tempers the brashness with poetry and nobility to where I can actually tolerate the work (my least favourite Mahler in any case).
Das Lied von der Erde: Lenny in Vienna, with FiDi and James King. Enough said!
9: Maderna - BBC SO. The craziest Rondo-Burleske in captivity, amongst much else.
10: Rattle with the Berliners. Deryck Cooke's edition, natch. As an aside, I take a much looser stance on composers' unfinished works posthumously completed by other hands. In my experience, it's best to take them on a case-by-case basis, and in this case, I much prefer to have the whole thing. Besides, there's more Mahler in 10 than there's Mozart in his Requiem, but nobody seems ever to have suggested sweeping the latter in its various completions under the carpet, unless I've missed something...........
Song cycles: Agreed on Janet Baker with Glorious John.
Knaben Wunderhorn: Agreed on Chailly.
I guess I like my Mahler with dirty fingernails these days.........
I happen to have bought the Mahler 3 under Haitink when I was in New York, in 1978 (I'm from The Netherlands)!
Such a coincidence, Haitink being in NY at that very time too!
@@basilpeewit3350 Ha! That's funny. I bought it in July, at Macy's...
I'm not a big fan of Haitink's 3rd. To me, it sounds like everyone is just going through the motions. Both conductor and orchestra do so competently, but there's no spark. But in fairness, I'm a bit disappointed with all the recordings I've heard of the symphony because they'll never match the magical live performance I heard with Claudio Abbado and the Chicago Symphony in the late '60s or early 70s.
as much as I love Mahler, I hate to say it but I think we've reached the point where he's overperformed and recorded ad nauseum - and what's next for orchestras wishing to satisfy audiences with a sweet tooth for late Romanticism that also sounds somewhat modern ? - nothing really - so perhaps they have to keep clinging to Mahler for dear life !
No, now the problem is Bruckner. Mahler is already old news.