No comparison between Ruby Rose and those other guys. You each bring something different and I have a tenancy to watch your posts as soon as possible. Keep them coming!
As a world cruiser, helm and engine access issues are a deal breaker, unless you’re planning on mostly coastal cruising. Love that it performs and the finish is beautiful, but safety is much more than just where the life raft is situated, especially on an ocean crossing.
The most sane reviewers (is that even a word ?!?! if not sorry for my english ) on youtube ! Another great video , especialy for someone like me who've been only once on a sailboat , but totaly in love with the sea ! Asking the right questions , and giving simple and straight answers ! Keep up the good job ! Cheers and greetings from Bulgaria !
It's obviously an amazing boat, but I can't help but feel it has been outclassed by the Seawind 1600. It just seems like a more thoughtful design throughout...from the interior to the cockpit to the deck to the sugar scoops. And it flies just as fast, with maybe a better bias toward a broad reach which is more relevant to trade wind cruising than the beam reach bias that the outremer has.
Dont go on polars to see how it performs on the sea. I dont think they take sea state into account, as best I know - others wise there'd be all kinds of polars. See my reply to Robert Weiss also
Thanks for review. (Biased) future O51 owner here who generally agrees with most of the observations including some of the negatives. A few comments: Performance: most focus seems to be on high end performance but the real value (imo) of an efficient boat is the ability to sail well in light winds and to have the option of sailing conservatively while still moving at respectable speeds in moderate winds. Being able to put in 2 reefs in 15-20 knots and sail at 7-8 knots is fantastic. Cockpit: personally, I prefer the safety of the enclosed cockpit recognizing it's a climb to get to the swim steps. This opinion was reinforced when we were pooped on a 5X in big following seas a couple of years ago (that problem could probably be solved with a washboard). Very small chance of something or someone going overboard unless they're outside the cockpit. Helm: it's possible to add a small dodger to protect the helm seat - some O51 owners have done this - but requires the mainsail be cut a little higher and the boom raised. We've chosen not to (for now) as we spend relatively little time at the helm and feel we'll be able to cope ok in an unusual situation. Agree or not, the Outremer view is that most of what you're concerned about can be resolved with clothing. I used to believe helm protection was essential but it just doesn't bother me in practice as much as I thought it would. Btw, the bucket seats are great places to sit when on watch even when not using the tillers (which aren't used often as far as I can tell). Space: definitely less interior space than on a similar length Leopard/Lagoon etc. so if that's highest priority then choose on that basis. We feel the O51 has more than enough space for our needs and we wouldn't trade away the sailing qualities for more interior volume.
Thanks for the inputs, very interesting. I had assumed it would be possible to add a dodger on the top of the helming positions good to know it's indeed the case.
Agree, in the long run, performance is about sailing more and motoring less and lighter stuff. I've talked to several circumnavigators, one said average wind speed was 14 knots, another said they motored or motor-sailed way more than expected. A performance sailboat allows you to sail more in the light stuff.
You should check but if I remember correctly, you can also access the engine from inside through a hatch under the bed from back cabin. Also, 10,9 t. for a 51 is quite lightweight which is synonymous additional security for a catamaran. Distribution of weights and masses is particularly well studied on this ship. Lagoon or Leopard 50 are 20 tons ships.
Another excellent review. Thank you. It seems that it's down to the Seawind 1600 and the Outremer 51. The former has some advantages, the latter is better looking inside and out. The helm position is a problem that can be resolved relatively easily with a dodger. With regard to the space versus performance debate, a boat that makes fast passages is safer, the crew arrives fresher and will be less intimidated about doing it all over again. Thus, what it may lack in volume as a cruising boat it makes up for in easier quicker passages. L.Francis Herreshoff was not wrong when he said that the pleasure of sailing is directly proportional to the speed at which it is done. There are other aspects than speed but for most sailors, a boat that will sail well is a joy.
The Outremer is a true blue water sailing cat and to be that, it needs the hull shape and dagger boards. Comparing it to fat cats..... well they are designed for chartering.. When you sail at twenty knots you need to have someone at the helm station ready to ease sheets or take the wheel at any time.. Of course you can reef it down to keep your speed to 10 to 12 knots, then you can sit inside with the autopilot on... The only bad thing in the design is the engine position and access. I would prefer them under the double bunks so they would be accessible in storm conditions. I think you would buy this boat with your head because it is the safest and best designed for blue water cruising, and it can sail to windward at 10 knots. This is important if you get caught on a lee shore. Cheers Rustie. PS If you've ever tried building a cat you'll know that the price is great value for money..
The engine compartment location in rough seas looks very scary as well as the helm seat without any support or covering. Also I agree about the stove location and many of the points are very much in agreement of what you said and all should be reconsidered from Outremer ! They need to use the 55 flexible helm control on future models.
Probably the best review I've seen. So different from the "reviews" that are really marketing presentations. It was refreshing that you talked about the performance/luxury/price trichotomy. If you want speed and space, then a Gunboat might fit the bill at around $5 to $6 million second hand. I beg to differ about catamarans sailing by the numbers because they don't heel, etc. It depends on the style of catamaran and the sailor. If you're sailing a responsive catamaran, e.g. like using the tiller on an Outremer, you should be able to feel the slightest wind change by the tickle on the back of your ears and the ruffle in the hairs on the back of your neck.
My cruising experience on Cats, when the weather is crap / and often when it's not, the auto-pilot is driving the boat - You hand steer "rarely" on passage. I hand steer much more than most as I like to sail and the Outremer tiller is awesome! Outremer is a high-quality boat, ask an owner and you will find the support is equally as good. Don't apologize about your bias - You two know boats AND sailing, your bias is from the boat being superior in many ways to competitors.
beautifully made. i think this is one of those boats that "just depends" do you want a 2 seat sports car or full size comfort. my attitude is im going to spend a lot more time sitting somewhere than getting there, so giving up a few knots doesn't much bother me. im not a big person but when we toured an outremer i could hardly turn around in the hulls and forget trying to get past someone
Best discussion of the pros and cons of the Outremer cockpit. I came away appreciating the setup a bit more actually, while being initially much more critical.
Great review. I agree with all the good and the bad. For me personally, the helm would be a deal breaker. Shade for me is a must and I would want a hard top and ability for a full enclosure. The bench seat would need to be upgraded per you remarks as well. The engine access was also terrible. I think you guys were kind to them on these two points because the rest of the boat appears outstanding. Thanks for these great reviews.
Impressive sailing polar diagram. There is a lot about the boat that is beautiful. The helm station, engine room access and possibly the price are barriers for me..
We have a FP Orana and the cooktop is right next to the staircase. It makes me nervous every time I think about it but we've never had trouble with someone accidentally stepping off the steps, and we've lived on it for more than a year and had a variety of guests on board.
Edit: Great video guys. I really am not a big fan of the open cockpit though. Another thing that bothered me was all of these new cats that are giving up U shaped galleys!! I don't understand...unless using them as floating apartments U shaped, or at least having an island behind you to brace on in high seas is so important! .... Read in another comment you guys will check out the Balance 526 this year in Annapolis. Hope to see you there! My final list of cats to decide between have come down to the Seawind 1600, the Balance 526, and the Xquiste x5. Two performance and 1 luxury cat....now to see which one the wife likes!
Outremer 51 and Seawind 1600. I've been on Seawind 1600 at Miami 2020 Boat show. I think there is no comparison really. Worked on Cat's in AUS in late '90's. And yes things have changed. But I assure YOU during & after major storm I DO NOT WANT TO GET WET WHILE AT THE HELM STATION. It rained y'day at the boat show . So we got to see first hand how you are protected on Seawind 1600. We loved it ! Seawind 1600 is designed by Reichel Pugh and built by Seawind catamarans and as well by their current owners. Seawind even had enough balls to put that in their new brochure. "Our owners are our harshest critics". Outremer 51 should be charged with offense of just 'pretending' to be in the same category. Not a prayer Outremer 51...you wish that you are Seawind 1600. Speaking to Seawind Owners and their sales team...There are 23 yes 23 orders for Seawind 1600 right now. Contracts signed and waiting...Did I forget to mention that if you order Seawind now that it will not be ready until 2023..that's not misprint . Nick I like you and Terysa and your content. However even my wife who was next to me and she had smile on her face (rare occurrence when talking about boats and $) when she was aboard Seawind 1600. Sorry Nick, but she did laugh at you that you liked this "Pretender" Vs Seawind 1600. AUS Co design wins by common sense. The other boat we fell in love also was Balance 526. WOW. We spent an hour + with Edwin, owner of the boat. Thank you Edwin. He said he is hull #7 and being Engineer he incorporated few changes that he said that all new boat owners after him on Balance 526 are requesting and getting it. And yes it costs more ($1.74m) and it is amazing cat. And of course my wife loved it. After we stepped on different Lagoon's and Fountain Pajot and as we were waiting to 'begin ' to move about the cabin...the boat boards under our feet were cricking...we looked at it each other and started laughing. We left shortly after knowing what our boat is going to be...Seawind 1600 or Balance 526! Great job Nick and Terysa on providing us with amazing content and real life feelings and thoughts. Thank you.
Tony & Susan here, I believe from this review Outremer has best in class build quality. The exterior helm can be outfitted for a bit more protection from the elements . Good Job on the review. Heading to Annapolis
Outremere started incorporating some construction techniques used in Gunboat that further reduces weight without sacrificing quality. The company that owns Outremere recently purchased Gunboat.
Regarding the incident in Australia, I read somewhere that the accident was a result of their being hit from the aft by a floating shipping container in very cold and challenging sea conditions. Since so many people who will be seeing this have no experience with catamarans I think it's worth restating just how unusual that sort of occurrence is, and just how many things have to go wrong all at once in order to overturn a modern cruising catamaran. As always, awesome review.
I have enjoyed your Channel and have subscribed . I have lived on Kauai, HI. For past 18 years. Sometimes I have thoughts of buying boat and sailing to South Pacific. The only impediment is my severe seasickness , no mechanical skills and a total lack of seamanship.😂 To compensate I watch your videos. I love the boats but stayed for your great showmanship. Both of you have a great repose.👍😀😷❤️🌴
Another great review of a very nice catamaran. Thank you for sharing the specs and capabilities of that Outremer 51 and for the detailed review of the boat overall. I watched another review of that boat model (BOAT TOUR: The Sailing Family's OUTREMER 51 Blue Water Catamaran - RUclips) and the owners had completely enclosed the back helm with an upper Bimini and a removable flexible enclosure. That configuration would satisfy the exposure issues you mentioned on this boat. You both do such a great job explaining the details of your review and it really helps novice's, like me, understand what the terms and characteristics mean.
In your review of the Seawind 1600 you mentioned having saildrives as a negative, but apparently ignored this aspect with the Outremer 51.Also, I understand the Outremer's salon windows are plexiglass as opposed to the Seawind's glass. However, that said still love your fantastic reviews, just can't wait for more.
love the channel and you guys. 2 points for Nick. 1. your "cautious" approach to sailing doesn't really lend itself to a performance boat does it? How comfortable would u be at 20 knots? but as u said u buy with your heart (just food for thought) 2. your life raft thoughts are bang on. If u have a dinghy at the rear having a life raft at the forward make sense of dividing your options in event u need them. just another reason supporting your idea. keep up the awesome content :)
"If u have a dinghy at the rear having a life raft at the forward make sense" Especially when you consider the potential for the dinghy on davits to create an ungodly tangle of lines and restrict access to the life raft in an emergency. Do you really want to be fighting with a swinging 200Kg mass when you NEED that life raft?
love your reviews, its refreshing that you say it how it is in your opinion, whether we the viewer choose to agree or disagree, you at least get people thinking about what's important or not, well done ....Danny Australia
For me personally two ‘Show Stoppers’ - 1) Helm Position (can you imagine even 48 hours of hand steering in cold/wet weather with just two people on board) & 2) Engine Access (when you really needed to in a crappy sea as you would need a Granny Bar!)
i was going to put in a comment on this excellent video but you pretty much beat me to it. im too old for that helm station and too non-salty to service that engine in a seaway.
Even with a dodger or a Bimini I still think the heels are too far offset and out of range for conversation or such. Plus, you would need two dodgers or Biminis, so why not just go with a total hardtop?
One point worth considering in the value for money category is resale and how well they hold their value. Looking at Yachtworld over the years it appears that well kept Outremers hold their value and sell quickly.
Your point when you were at the Helm inside that you could not see the top of the Mast is very Valid why not ask why they never put a View Point above the steering wheel Uv PROTECTED so no hot sun on you in there.????????? . Great Vlog Guys and having short Arms and Long Pockets never gets what you Won't lol :)
Love these vlogs you guys are doing well. Clear and concise opinions and reasoning behind you views. I'd hate to have you as a motivated salesman.... Very convincing. As a side note you already have the supermodel onboard, so all you need is the fat cigar. Peace and fair winds.
Great watching your reviews . And how you go back and forth to each other thoughts . Thanks for all the work you put in to your shows .from Steve stott in sutherlin Oregon u.s.a.
I do like the Outremers, but while, as you stated, you will be sailing her with a smile, I think the non-sailing time will be less satisfying, due to the small size. For a 51' cat, I don't think it has adequate space. I would personally prefer the space and sacrifice the speed.
Great review. I wonder if Outremer will ever consider a true interior helm position like Gunboat? Maybe their idea of helm protection is good foul weather gear 😁. Outremers are definitely on the short list of our favorite boats of all time though!
The downsides of a fly bridge (e.g. like the McConaghy 50 and 60 and otgers have) are you wind up shortening your mainsheet via raising your boom, and the helm position tends to be very exposed. Also, the further aft the helm is the more turbulent it will be for the pilot in rough seas. Gunboat and some HHs have the forward helm position which is great for minimizing being tossed around in heavy seas, but does leave one fairly exposes to spray and being swamped by heavy waves.
Outremer is very nice, but Seawind 1600 seems the better option for a performance live-aboard. If there is a Nautitech 541 at Annapolis, I'd love to see you guys review that.
Nick, you were talking about the helm station. Have you looked at what "Wildling" did to close in their helm? I thought that would have been a good compromise.
ruclips.net/video/sgQ0Od_xnIM/видео.html Is that the one? Pretty easy and cheap fix, all that is missing is $100 worth of SS side rails on that bench seat
In looking at that, I would say that was more a sunshade than something suitable for long overnight passages. My concern is something like what Jason and Nikki Wynn had to deal with in this video. ruclips.net/video/9_cIj3Lx9BY/видео.html Actually, they had a couple of issues, but you can see that at 3 a.m., in squalls, you don't want to be sitting out in the open without a full dodger or hardtop with enclosures. Notice at about 7:30 when Nikki comes out of the engine room the full enclosure around the helm station, even if it angles outward. I can't see not having that kind of enclosure if I was going to be doing long distance cruising.
My takeaway is that you two would prefer an Amel 55. Or two of them strapped together. 😉 But I will agree that that is a gorgeous catamaran. My biggest question for Outremere is can you get different engines? We’ve watched Riley replace at least three engine control units.
billyl allen Boat comes with factory option of dodger/bimini over helm area. I do not know why it was not known/mentioned in this otherwise great review.
I'm very interested to see where you end up in your budget that seems more realistic for the well off but not luckily rich. Likely the value is on the 2nd hand market.
Jim Wapelhorst Boat comes with factory option of dodger/bimini over helm area. I do not know why it was not known/mentioned in this otherwise great review.
Another great review , just a few simple things for liveaboard , put doors on the shelves on the main cabin near the bed to increase storage . Black mullions look great inside and the cockpit cannot he walked into from the shore like most cats you have to walk over the combing so essentially the cockpit is like a centre cockpit on a monohull giving you more protection . One note,what is the drainage like just Incase you get a big wave in there. ! Take care Darrell
Hi in my work I was lucky to sail the outremer 5x from the factory to stmaartan. I have done lots of sailing on different cats, I think for the easy going family sailor , the outremer is a handful, you have to reef dearly early before your out of control , there is a difference of sailing fast , and holding on for your life, And in 40 in of wind that helm is open,
That’s fantastic to hear mate. Could you possibly let us know any other thoughts you have on this boat as someone who has sailed, but not invested financially? Owners tend to defend their purchases past the point of common sense.
@@sailingrubyrose as you said it's minimalist, no fiddles in cupboards, the oven in a blow is very close to the steps into the hull, I found the 5x isn't a chill out boat , plodding along at 8-9 knots ,as in your review about the helm, and when it's rough you want to shelter, but that's the time you need to Be there ,if something happens at 18 knots, you have to react, All the rigging was connected by dinema, very strong ,but it does still chafe, it did wear through on a reefing line, and I've never had that ever before, and that's holding your rig up, Lots of rig checks, I see on the 51 there is no clear walkway to the transom, safe for children, but walking back at sea you put yourself in an unsafe position, get rid of that myth cats don't move and are flat, If you take a big wave can that area fill ,? I have found that because the spreaders are swept back you cannot put the main out and get a good presenter, there hang system, jars, and groans constantly, The location of any generator put in a forward locker ,awesome when it works, not so when you need it it doesn't work, and you have to open a giant hatch, when waves are coming over, Exciting boats, for a certain market, And they are fun to dock in a blow, Canaries to stmaartan 15 and a half days ,, 3 people ,
The boat is nice, but the compromise of the exposed helm & lack of visibility of the main from the inside position turns me off completely. Thanks for drawing attention to the life raft positioning, had not considered this. Seawind wins 😊. Keep up the great work guys, you’re helping us with our choice tremendously.
Okay, here's my take. As I've told you multiple times, I'm not a sailor, I've never owned a sailboat, never sailed, and I don't have the experience, so my comments MUST be biased around my LACK of knowledge. I still, and will probably forever, be in love with the newer Privilege boats, from 2006 or so on, and particularly the Serie 5, 615, Serie 6, and even a couple of the 40-something footers. That Center Master Suite is just killer, even though, as Nick demonstrated, the headroom in the 510 isn't that great. I can deal with that over the bed, I sleep there, not navigate from there. Having said that, speed is always nice, luxury is always nice, but as Outremer clearly demonstrates, it's not really possible to have both. No walk around berths, a galley that isn't as big, or as safety-minded as I might like (look at the Seawind with the galley down, I'd like that in a higher sea state). I also want to be able to walk around and feel comfortable. Back to the Serie 5/510, you have room on those boats for four staterooms, and they are big and comfortable. Plus, if you wanted to, you can get a full-beam master for a three-cabin setup. Can't beat that. That's MY bias. I do agree that Outremer seems to be a quality built cat, the joinery, woodwork and the small touch of engraving in the Corian is nice. If I'm going to be paying that kind of money for a boat, I expect Rolls Royce, Bentley, Gulfstream (jet airplane) and custom Boeing interiors. From what I've seen from your video, Outremer delivers. It's not a 'production' boat. Far better than Neel, but we won't go into that. Performance. I don't know how I feel about that. I'm single, no significant other, and my sailing companions would probably be feline, and maybe a couple of paid crew (IF I was in the position to do this, I'm not). Maybe get lucky and find a lovely young lady like Terysa, but odds are stacked against me. :) :p So, do I need to get there, wherever there is, quickly and a bit cramped, or a little more slowly and in a lot more comfort? I agree that a daggerboard equipped sailboat is probably a bit more stable, significantly faster, but is also more work to get the results you want. Who wants to trim the daggerboards in 25 knots of shifting wind at 3 a.m. in the morning? Layout. So many cruising cats have the master hull and then the guest hull, and I guess that isn't bad, especially if you have air conditioning and can zone it to certain spaces. But, it does limit you in number of guests or extra crew you might carry. If you were doing long passage, i.e., Panama to Tahiti, France to Florida or the Bahamas, having more than just two onboard would be helpful. Four or five might be a better number, especially if you don't have to pay for them! Yeah, food and stuff, but you know, non-paid crew who is looking for bluewater cruising hours or experience. But, that's just me, the more the merrier? The Helm Station on the 51, to me, is a disaster. I would need to have an enclosure built around it. Either that, or a compete redesign of the hardtop to have an enclosed area extending out past the helm station that can be completely enclosed and heated, if necessary. You've stated on various occasions that a forward-looking interior Nav Station is almost a requirement, but I have to wonder why. Do you really want to do your watch standing inside, with limited visual cues and limited sightlines? Sure, some cats have interior controls for the helm, and that's not bad, but reefing a line, or changing the take up on a sheet can't be done from inside. BUT, you need to have an enclosure outside for it to be best. Interior Nav stations, In my humbled non-experience opinion, are great for planning out the trip, monitoring weather, and looking at making long-distance decisions for the trip, even for as little as 30 minutes out, depending on the requirement. Autopilot is good for that, as is radar and Predict Winds, etc., and probably IS better done inside, but at least a hand AT the wheel, if not on it, makes me feel more comfortable. But, that's just me. I trust the autopilots in the airplanes I used to fly, I most certainly trust the navigation systems in General Aviation aircraft today, but I'm not going to lean the seat back and take a nap. That's kind of how I feel about watch standing. As seen by the recent Sail GP, and America's Cup racing, foiling catamarans are the thing. I'm wondering when we're going to see foiling cats as cruising cats? One main foil on either side amidships, and two smaller ones bow and stern, or one smaller on the bow, and the rudders fitted with small foils. Could you imagine 30 knots or so downwind with a 50' cat using a Parasailor? In a LUXURY cat? Not a LuxoPerf cat, but a true luxury one. Forty knots in something like an Outremer or a Catana? LOL I need to contact Marc Lombard! LOL As to the lifeboat issue, I agree that is shouldn't be stowed somewhere that you have to open a locker to get to it. Also, considering your comments on the cat that capsized down in Aussieland, I will have to go find the video, but I've seen storage on the coachroof, next to the dingy, and some other 'less desirable' places. I DO like the Outremer solution, accessible from either side of the hull, and for a cruising couple, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind it intruding on the trampoline if it is easily deployed to save their lives. Anyway, good review. I'm not as biased as you are, I'm not sure I would give it the high score you did, but it wouldn't be too far off of your mark, either.
Manufacturers will listen if they so desire yet rarely respond directly. They are driven by their sales, R&D and legal department. The advantage is to those who remain silent and they remain free to make inprovemnts.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose Your reviews are all really GOOD. Thank you! One thing I wonder in regards to things like no ends (arm rests) on the helm seat and engine access is that maybe you’re speaking from the perspective of someone that’s been thrashed to and fro on a monohull? I say that because a cat, and especially a high performance one like the Outremer 51, moves with little effort and slices through the water like two knives on edge. Point being - it’s a very SMOOTH RIDE.
It is a beautifully done performance cat, so a very strong choice if you are wanting that type of boat. However, from a cruiser standpoint, I struggle to consider the performance segment a good fit for cruising, as the ride is quite rough. With cruising as a focus, I think comfort trumps performance. That said, I suppose the counterpoint is you will be uncomfortable for a shorter time, as your passages will be quicker! Also, agree with the emphasis on the open helm. That is an absolute cruising no-go in my opinion.
Sailing a 51 full time for 2 years now. The ride is smooth because of hull design and higher clearance. Open helm is ok for us. The downside of enclosed helms is that in an emergency it takes longer to get to the area needing attention as it is a less direct path.
Let’s face it Riley And Elayna put Outremer on the map and quite literally made it a household name. Outremer makes a great boat. Personally I like the older models particularly the 53/55 light.
Good to excellent build quality is expected! I want to know how well its wired, instruments and layout, rigging, sails, motor and galley. The tables cusions, beds and such are so much frufru and relatively unimportant. So tell us about the utilities and propulsion more please. Thanks.🤔😎
Fantastic review. Nick had me laughing with selling a kidney. Narrow hulls equals performance but as I would prefer to live aboard, I prefer space as well as creature comforts. Build quality and fit and finish are amazing. Ryan er Riley (lol) and Alayna could really use the extra space now. They should be upgrading to this larger model. Nick, just come up with something to replace the dangerous mercury fillings that they still use today with something that is safe and you could just write a check for this million dollar masterpiece. Hoping I can make it to Annapolis Boat Show to say hello. Keep up the great work!
I think when comparing this boat to others one aspect is that in terms of interior space, the Outremer 51 is more comparable to productions 44 or 45s. A 44 might even have a more spacious saloon, cockpit, and island berths. What you're really paying for here is performance. Of course it's a massive performance jump from a 45' production boat to this, but that's partly because it only has the cabin of a 44, but the long hulls of a 51'. It does have a simply massive trampoline. You could have a dance party out there. It's beautiful, but outside my price range.
I'm enjoying these reviews even if I am too old to own another boat. Wish boats with all these features and current technology were around 20 years ago when instead of a sailboat I bought a 44' powerboat which I had to give up a couple of years ago. (But the cost of fuel stopped our longer trips long ago.) I saw on Sailing Nahoa (4/14/19) that their bulkheads were breaking loose because many of the manufacturers of catamarans for the charter market fasten them with putty instead of epoxy and fiberglass. Have you considered this issue?
The problem with an open helm station in Australia is that you have no protection from the sun. Death from melanoma is not attractive. I'm sure that there are bimini options that would give shelter. Mind you, the hulls look very nice for performance.
Super series on the cats, Ruby Rose crew. Very, very, very, very good job. As they might say somewhere in the UK, with a throaty royal accent, "Bloody well done, chaps!" (read...Chap and Chapette.)
that would be an interesting one - I got a test sail on Aloni - a Balance 526 and it is an amazing boat. there really isn't much a comparison as build quality and space on 526 is worlds beyond the O51, but so is the cost at over $1.8M kitted out. There's a new Balance model in the makings that is worthy of a look that will compete with the O51 - same space as the 526 (in a 482 format) with about 90 - 95% of the performance - so it's right there with the O51.
😂😂 I really enjoyed this review. Particularly Nick's attempt to overcome the "negative" Helm position. Outremer have definitely stepped up their craftsmanship in the interior, which now is equal to that used in the 5X, ie; flush cabinet doors. I believe that it's already been mentioned in a comment below, the helm position. There are possibilities to enclose that outdoor position and as for the helm seat, being a separate unit as opposed to a moulded seat, modifications should be easy. At the moment there is a family sailing the world with an Outremer 51 "Archer" which has an enclosed helm dodger. As for the engine bay access, I agree that it's not ideal. I wonder, if they were to rotate the hatch opening so that it opens aft instead of to the side, it would give a greater sense of security? Food for thought. Anyway, Terysa, as for the neck "pop" try siting on the other side next time🤣. Great job, as always good fun to watch. Cheers
Hey Hans! Thanks for watching. Yes, we love our enclosed helm and that is an option if you want one. As for the read engine hatch, it's really not a problem. I had to change a fuel filter in rough conditions. I just turned the boat downwind. There was no threat of water coming up the three steps needed to access the engine room, so I don't see this as an issue. And I'd rather the engines be separate from the cabins to reduce noise and make them water tight. But it's just my perspective having sailed the boat with this particular issue.
A few points I have noticed through this series of reviews which by the way are totally outstanding.#1being none of these expensive vessels are fly by wire meaning I’ve been expecting a joystick control on all of these vessels connected to the navigation station of which you can utilise the boats electronics a lot more easily.#2 why after all these years of yacht and vessel construction design,the manufacturers have never integrated a self inflating bladder design similar to the life vest that would make the vessels unsinkable in any condition,boats shouldn’t sink anymore in this day and age of technology,the human safety factor has to be reviewed in the design and construction phase,after all they want to charge a million dollars for a boat then they need to provide a million dollar guarantee you will survive a mishap.This is not the eighteen hundreds anymore but vessels are still designed on this principle.cheers safe sailing.
Hey mate, thanks for the comment. To address your points, most autopilots allow the boat to be sailed with push buttons. However sailors normally want to feel the boat and enjoy the mechanical connection. Re buoyancy, most cats are positively buoyant. Foam cores and plywood mean that a catamaran will rarely ever sink. Most catamarans that are abandoned at sea, wash up somewhere a few months or years later.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose Hello Nickolas,a lovely reply from you,thanks.My point about fly by wire essentially is that no matter where you are in the area of the helm control area or equally you pick up the remote helm control sand walk forward to the windlass and engage engines while lifting anchor,this option should have been provided by now in my opinion.As for abandoning a vessel at sea,the safety item I described should be inbuilt in vessels much earlier as I thought of this as a teen back in the eighties,this should be mandatory in vessel design in thisage,just my opinion thanks for you reply,much love and respect.
Garcia Explocat might be worth a look, a real go anywhere cat with alluminium hulls ! Failing that I still think the seawind just takes it by a short head :)
Having just watched your review of the Seawind 1600, the Outremer 51 falls short. The helming position is really rather poor and I am surprised that Outremer have not put more thought into that crucial point for any one looking for an ocean crossing vessel. Also I couldn't help notice the position of the throttle controls which are really not great. Last but not least: Engine access! If you are simply coastal cruising this might be ok but again for anyone considering long distance that access is simply dangerous When you see all the rest of the boat there is clearly a lot of attention to detail but these three points are disappointing and Outremer should address them.
This one get my vote. I would look for a used one. I like the Seawind 1600 too but no used one yet. I would ask Outremer owners how they feel about expose help position. From what see, they let the autopilot do the steering and sit inside. As for safety, I sail a lagoon 380 in 4m waves and 30+ wind, and even in those condition you don't feel the need to clip on as you enter the cockpit. The motion is very different and you don't heel enough to loose your footing. Maybe once sitting down at helm at night. Of course, I would clip on if I need to go forward or at the mast. The beauty in a fast cat is that you don't have to take 4m waves and 30 Knots wind, you can sail away from it.
+1 for the liferaft placement, -1 times two for the engine access, so a net loss on simple stuff, exposed cockpit is also a concern stand your watch where you can control the boat, the nav station is nice but actually IMO you don't control the boat there you make request to the autopilot and then if it can it will respond, while at the cockpit if the auto pilot doesn't respond at 2 am and it won't you can take control of the wheel and steer. Mother Nature and Murphy are strange bed fellows they are both optimist, it is not a question of if it will happen it is a question of when, and with boats at sea that is usually in a storm at 2 am.
Good review, I really enjoyed it. :) One thing I don't understand is why "paying for labor" takes away from a boat's score though. That's a good thing I would have thought? The people who built the catamaran aren't having to live off food stamps or whatever, and that would actually be a positive thing for me. I don't see something bordering on indentured servitude as a good thing even if it does result in a bit lower costs for me.
Because it’s value for money my friend. The workers have almost similar qualities of life in different continents. However a worker in South Africa or Vietnam or Taiwan will get paid much less in dollars than a European worker. It means that the boats built in Europe have a much higher cost for labour attributed to the build.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose, Sure but by that logic no one from Europe or other 1st world countries would be able to hold a job. A lawyer in USA costs more than one in Vietnam as well, a CEO makes more in Australia than in Cambodia, a baker makes more in Germany than in Venezuela etc. Aren't they worth the money you think? I know that EU has some of the highest standards, controls, requirement etc. in the world that companies must live up to, and I know that the people building my boat (or whatever I'm buying) isn't just trying to crank out as many products per hour as possible because they're dirt poor trying to make a living. I kinda like that to be honest, and if I was buying a catamaran for 2 million euro we've already left "the land of value for money" I think, so if I'm that rich I'd rather pay a bit more and know that what I'm getting meets all the high EU standards, that the company that made it operates under EU laws and regulation in case of faults, warranty issues or whatever and so on. That's a pretty good assurance to have when you're already paying that much for a boat I think. :)
Access to the engines are unacceptable and the unprotected helm station makes this boat a no in my opinion. But that’s just me. Others may be fine with it.
Robert! You have critical thinking skills. Additionally, did you observe how low the boom sits in relation to the head of someone sitting in the outdoor helm station? It appears to be a close call. I do not see any excuse for such an exposed helm station. That is for day sailors. As for the interior helm station, one cannot see the water closer than what, a 1000 feet? So, what do you do about seeing a buoy or a small fishing boat or other low profile debris in your path? My aesthetic objection to most cats is that the interiors look more like some landlocked apartment whose builder got a good deal from Scan Design. Glaring white plastic complemented by sharp cornered blond wood. Yuck. It's not like you need to brighten the place up considering there are large ports 360 degrees, plus overheads. Cannot the fiberglass be tinted to a beige or something warm and complemented by teak or cherry looking wood? It (well, not just this cat but most) are not warm, inviting or nautical. More like a Motel 6. If I'm going to spend a million dollars, I want that sucker to look like a yacht. And as you noted, I don't want to flood the engine room trying to make a repair in rough seas. Performance looks good though as long as there no heavy weather and you actually have to be outside sailing the boat.
Wanting that enclosed helm sure does suggest the Antares 44GS. That said, I'm very curious about the life raft stowage on that boat, as it just isn't obvious. I love the GS so much courtesy of its engine placement, etc., but the life raft placement is a huge question mark.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Love it. Love it. Love it
No comparison between Ruby Rose and those other guys. You each bring something different and I have a tenancy to watch your posts as soon as possible. Keep them coming!
As a world cruiser, helm and engine access issues are a deal breaker, unless you’re planning on mostly coastal cruising. Love that it performs and the finish is beautiful, but safety is much more than just where the life raft is situated, especially on an ocean crossing.
As a world cruiser, 90% of the time autopilot does it for you 😉
The most sane reviewers (is that even a word ?!?! if not sorry for my english ) on youtube ! Another great video , especialy for someone like me who've been only once on a sailboat , but totaly in love with the sea ! Asking the right questions , and giving simple and straight answers ! Keep up the good job ! Cheers and greetings from Bulgaria !
It's obviously an amazing boat, but I can't help but feel it has been outclassed by the Seawind 1600. It just seems like a more thoughtful design throughout...from the interior to the cockpit to the deck to the sugar scoops. And it flies just as fast, with maybe a better bias toward a broad reach which is more relevant to trade wind cruising than the beam reach bias that the outremer has.
Dont go on polars to see how it performs on the sea. I dont think they take sea state into account, as best I know - others wise there'd be all kinds of polars. See my reply to Robert Weiss also
Thanks for review. (Biased) future O51 owner here who generally agrees with most of the observations including some of the negatives. A few comments:
Performance: most focus seems to be on high end performance but the real value (imo) of an efficient boat is the ability to sail well in light winds and to have the option of sailing conservatively while still moving at respectable speeds in moderate winds. Being able to put in 2 reefs in 15-20 knots and sail at 7-8 knots is fantastic.
Cockpit: personally, I prefer the safety of the enclosed cockpit recognizing it's a climb to get to the swim steps. This opinion was reinforced when we were pooped on a 5X in big following seas a couple of years ago (that problem could probably be solved with a washboard). Very small chance of something or someone going overboard unless they're outside the cockpit.
Helm: it's possible to add a small dodger to protect the helm seat - some O51 owners have done this - but requires the mainsail be cut a little higher and the boom raised. We've chosen not to (for now) as we spend relatively little time at the helm and feel we'll be able to cope ok in an unusual situation. Agree or not, the Outremer view is that most of what you're concerned about can be resolved with clothing. I used to believe helm protection was essential but it just doesn't bother me in practice as much as I thought it would. Btw, the bucket seats are great places to sit when on watch even when not using the tillers (which aren't used often as far as I can tell).
Space: definitely less interior space than on a similar length Leopard/Lagoon etc. so if that's highest priority then choose on that basis. We feel the O51 has more than enough space for our needs and we wouldn't trade away the sailing qualities for more interior volume.
Thanks for the inputs, very interesting. I had assumed it would be possible to add a dodger on the top of the helming positions good to know it's indeed the case.
Thought ive seen a little Outremer dodger on the 45
Agree, in the long run, performance is about sailing more and motoring less and lighter stuff. I've talked to several circumnavigators, one said average wind speed was 14 knots, another said they motored or motor-sailed way more than expected. A performance sailboat allows you to sail more in the light stuff.
You should check but if I remember correctly, you can also access the engine from inside through a hatch under the bed from back cabin.
Also, 10,9 t. for a 51 is quite lightweight which is synonymous additional security for a catamaran. Distribution of weights and masses is particularly well studied on this ship.
Lagoon or Leopard 50 are 20 tons ships.
You are arguably the best looking couple on youtube talking about sailboats. Thank you!
Another excellent review. Thank you. It seems that it's down to the Seawind 1600 and the Outremer 51. The former has some advantages, the latter is better looking inside and out. The helm position is a problem that can be resolved relatively easily with a dodger. With regard to the space versus performance debate, a boat that makes fast passages is safer, the crew arrives fresher and will be less intimidated about doing it all over again. Thus, what it may lack in volume as a cruising boat it makes up for in easier quicker passages. L.Francis Herreshoff was not wrong when he said that the pleasure of sailing is directly proportional to the speed at which it is done. There are other aspects than speed but for most sailors, a boat that will sail well is a joy.
The Outremer is a true blue water sailing cat and to be that, it needs the hull shape and dagger boards. Comparing it to fat cats..... well they are designed for chartering.. When you sail at twenty knots you need to have someone at the helm station ready to ease sheets or take the wheel at any time.. Of course you can reef it down to keep your speed to 10 to 12 knots, then you can sit inside with the autopilot on... The only bad thing in the design is the engine position and access. I would prefer them under the double bunks so they would be accessible in storm conditions. I think you would buy this boat with your head because it is the safest and best designed for blue water cruising, and it can sail to windward at 10 knots. This is important if you get caught on a lee shore. Cheers Rustie.
PS If you've ever tried building a cat you'll know that the price is great value for money..
The engine compartment location in rough seas looks very scary as well as the helm seat without any support or covering. Also I agree about the stove location and many of the points are very much in agreement of what you said and all should be reconsidered from Outremer ! They need to use the 55 flexible helm control on future models.
Probably the best review I've seen. So different from the "reviews" that are really marketing presentations. It was refreshing that you talked about the performance/luxury/price trichotomy. If you want speed and space, then a Gunboat might fit the bill at around $5 to $6 million second hand. I beg to differ about catamarans sailing by the numbers because they don't heel, etc. It depends on the style of catamaran and the sailor. If you're sailing a responsive catamaran, e.g. like using the tiller on an Outremer, you should be able to feel the slightest wind change by the tickle on the back of your ears and the ruffle in the hairs on the back of your neck.
My cruising experience on Cats, when the weather is crap / and often when it's not, the auto-pilot is driving the boat - You hand steer "rarely" on passage. I hand steer much more than most as I like to sail and the Outremer tiller is awesome! Outremer is a high-quality boat, ask an owner and you will find the support is equally as good. Don't apologize about your bias - You two know boats AND sailing, your bias is from the boat being superior in many ways to competitors.
Nice - looking forward to that Seawind 1260 review!
beautifully made. i think this is one of those boats that "just depends" do you want a 2 seat sports car or full size comfort. my attitude is im going to spend a lot more time sitting somewhere than getting there, so giving up a few knots doesn't much bother me. im not a big person but when we toured an outremer i could hardly turn around in the hulls and forget trying to get past someone
Best discussion of the pros and cons of the Outremer cockpit. I came away appreciating the setup a bit more actually, while being initially much more critical.
Great review. I agree with all the good and the bad. For me personally, the helm would be a deal breaker. Shade for me is a must and I would want a hard top and ability for a full enclosure. The bench seat would need to be upgraded per you remarks as well. The engine access was also terrible. I think you guys were kind to them on these two points because the rest of the boat appears outstanding. Thanks for these great reviews.
Impressive sailing polar diagram. There is a lot about the boat that is beautiful. The helm station, engine room access and possibly the price are barriers for me..
We have a FP Orana and the cooktop is right next to the staircase. It makes me nervous every time I think about it but we've never had trouble with someone accidentally stepping off the steps, and we've lived on it for more than a year and had a variety of guests on board.
Edit: Great video guys. I really am not a big fan of the open cockpit though. Another thing that bothered me was all of these new cats that are giving up U shaped galleys!! I don't understand...unless using them as floating apartments U shaped, or at least having an island behind you to brace on in high seas is so important! .... Read in another comment you guys will check out the Balance 526 this year in Annapolis. Hope to see you there!
My final list of cats to decide between have come down to the Seawind 1600, the Balance 526, and the Xquiste x5. Two performance and 1 luxury cat....now to see which one the wife likes!
Wonderful review. Love the conversational format and the interaction of the two of you. Anxiously waiting for a review of the Discovery Cat.
Outremer 51 and Seawind 1600. I've been on Seawind 1600 at Miami 2020 Boat show. I think there is no comparison really. Worked on Cat's in AUS in late '90's. And yes things have changed. But I assure YOU during & after major storm I DO NOT WANT TO GET WET WHILE AT THE HELM STATION. It rained y'day at the boat show . So we got to see first hand how you are protected on Seawind 1600. We loved it ! Seawind 1600 is designed by Reichel Pugh and built by Seawind catamarans and as well by their current owners. Seawind even had enough balls to put that in their new brochure. "Our owners are our harshest critics". Outremer 51 should be charged with offense of just 'pretending' to be in the same category. Not a prayer Outremer 51...you wish that you are Seawind 1600. Speaking to Seawind Owners and their sales team...There are 23 yes 23 orders for Seawind 1600 right now. Contracts signed and waiting...Did I forget to mention that if you order Seawind now that it will not be ready until 2023..that's not misprint . Nick I like you and Terysa and your content. However even my wife who was next to me and she had smile on her face (rare occurrence when talking about boats and $) when she was aboard Seawind 1600. Sorry Nick, but she did laugh at you that you liked this "Pretender" Vs Seawind 1600. AUS Co design wins by common sense. The other boat we fell in love also was Balance 526. WOW. We spent an hour + with Edwin, owner of the boat. Thank you Edwin. He said he is hull #7 and being Engineer he incorporated few changes that he said that all new boat owners after him on Balance 526 are requesting and getting it. And yes it costs more ($1.74m) and it is amazing cat. And of course my wife loved it. After we stepped on different Lagoon's and Fountain Pajot and as we were waiting to 'begin ' to move about the cabin...the boat boards under our feet were cricking...we looked at it each other and started laughing. We left shortly after knowing what our boat is going to be...Seawind 1600 or Balance 526! Great job Nick and Terysa on providing us with amazing content and real life feelings and thoughts. Thank you.
Tony & Susan here, I believe from this review Outremer has best in class build quality. The exterior helm can be outfitted for a bit more protection from the elements . Good Job on the review. Heading to Annapolis
Guys I love your work !! It is so complete from a to z !
Thanks for putting all this info together !!!
Another awesome review you guys! Gotta love that speed potential :-)
Outremere started incorporating some construction techniques used in Gunboat that further reduces weight without sacrificing quality. The company that owns Outremere recently purchased Gunboat.
The weight is double that of a TS5.
Regarding the incident in Australia, I read somewhere that the accident was a result of their being hit from the aft by a floating shipping container in very cold and challenging sea conditions. Since so many people who will be seeing this have no experience with catamarans I think it's worth restating just how unusual that sort of occurrence is, and just how many things have to go wrong all at once in order to overturn a modern cruising catamaran.
As always, awesome review.
I have enjoyed your Channel and have subscribed .
I have lived on Kauai, HI. For past 18 years. Sometimes I have thoughts of buying boat and sailing to South Pacific. The only impediment is my severe seasickness , no mechanical skills and a total lack of seamanship.😂
To compensate I watch your videos. I love the boats but stayed for your great showmanship. Both of you have a great repose.👍😀😷❤️🌴
Ah thanks is so much mate. Welcome
To our channel
Such great reviews thank you. I'm sure that all this is helping you to examine boats objectively. Wishing you safe sailing
Looking forward to your videos next spring from aboard your new Seawind 1260 :)
Great review!
FYI:
Opaque = no light passes through
Translucent = light only passes through
Transparent = light and images pass through
Opaque = Contents can't be seen. In this case it was used correctly.
@@leslieholmes2899 translucent is correct - light still passes through
Another great review of a very nice catamaran. Thank you for sharing the specs and capabilities of that Outremer 51 and for the detailed review of the boat overall. I watched another review of that boat model (BOAT TOUR: The Sailing Family's OUTREMER 51 Blue Water Catamaran - RUclips) and the owners had completely enclosed the back helm with an upper Bimini and a removable flexible enclosure. That configuration would satisfy the exposure issues you mentioned on this boat. You both do such a great job explaining the details of your review and it really helps novice's, like me, understand what the terms and characteristics mean.
I absolutely love this series it reviews. Well done!!!
In your review of the Seawind 1600 you mentioned having saildrives as a negative, but apparently ignored this aspect with the Outremer 51.Also, I understand the Outremer's salon windows are plexiglass as opposed to the Seawind's glass.
However, that said still love your fantastic reviews, just can't wait for more.
love the channel and you guys. 2 points for Nick. 1. your "cautious" approach to sailing doesn't really lend itself to a performance boat does it? How comfortable would u be at 20 knots? but as u said u buy with your heart (just food for thought) 2. your life raft thoughts are bang on. If u have a dinghy at the rear having a life raft at the forward make sense of dividing your options in event u need them. just another reason supporting your idea. keep up the awesome content :)
"If u have a dinghy at the rear having a life raft at the forward make sense"
Especially when you consider the potential for the dinghy on davits to create an ungodly tangle of lines and restrict access to the life raft in an emergency. Do you really want to be fighting with a swinging 200Kg mass when you NEED that life raft?
love your reviews, its refreshing that you say it how it is in your opinion, whether we the viewer choose to agree or disagree, you at least get people thinking about what's important or not, well done ....Danny Australia
Thanks mate. Appreciate the comment
For me personally two ‘Show Stoppers’ - 1) Helm Position (can you imagine even 48 hours of hand steering in cold/wet weather with just two people on board) & 2) Engine Access (when you really needed to in a crappy sea as you would need a Granny Bar!)
Paul Boat comes with factory option of dodger/bimini over helm area. I do not know why it was not known/mentioned in this otherwise great review.
i was going to put in a comment on this excellent video but you pretty much beat me to it. im too old for that helm station and too non-salty to service that engine in a seaway.
Even with a dodger or a Bimini I still think the heels are too far offset and out of range for conversation or such.
Plus, you would need two dodgers or Biminis, so why not just go with a total hardtop?
I prefer the speed offered by the Outremer. Personally, I don't feel performance is weighted enough when making a purchase.
Unless you are racing like using TS Cats or custom, space is important specially if the difference in time over passage is not significant.
Looks like The Sailing Family’s 51....so based on what the owner said about it, this boat is fast, stable, and blue water capable....
One point worth considering in the value for money category is resale and how well they hold their value. Looking at Yachtworld over the years it appears that well kept Outremers hold their value and sell quickly.
I am SO enjoying this shopping experience with you guys!
I'll be happy when you guys decide!!
Now I know how to pronounce 'Outremer'! Thanks Nick!
Your point when you were at the Helm inside that you could not see the top of the Mast is very Valid why not ask why they never put a View Point above the steering wheel Uv PROTECTED so no hot sun on you in there.????????? . Great Vlog Guys and having short Arms and Long Pockets never gets what you Won't lol :)
Love these vlogs you guys are doing well. Clear and concise opinions and reasoning behind you views. I'd hate to have you as a motivated salesman.... Very convincing. As a side note you already have the supermodel onboard, so all you need is the fat cigar. Peace and fair winds.
Great watching your reviews . And how you go back and forth to each other thoughts . Thanks for all the work you put in to your shows .from Steve stott in sutherlin Oregon u.s.a.
I do like the Outremers, but while, as you stated, you will be sailing her with a smile, I think the non-sailing time will be less satisfying, due to the small size. For a 51' cat, I don't think it has adequate space. I would personally prefer the space and sacrifice the speed.
Great review. I wonder if Outremer will ever consider a true interior helm position like Gunboat? Maybe their idea of helm protection is good foul weather gear 😁. Outremers are definitely on the short list of our favorite boats of all time though!
The downsides of a fly bridge (e.g. like the McConaghy 50 and 60 and otgers have) are you wind up shortening your mainsheet via raising your boom, and the helm position tends to be very exposed. Also, the further aft the helm is the more turbulent it will be for the pilot in rough seas. Gunboat and some HHs have the forward helm position which is great for minimizing being tossed around in heavy seas, but does leave one fairly exposes to spray and being swamped by heavy waves.
Love your channel and well done. You might look at a Royal Cape Majestic 530 when you get to Annapolis. Hope to run into you there.
Outremer is very nice, but Seawind 1600 seems the better option for a performance live-aboard.
If there is a Nautitech 541 at Annapolis, I'd love to see you guys review that.
she looks very nice!!! your presentation was spotless .........love it!
Great review as always love your comparisons on the detail keep up the great work I’m truly enjoying them
This boat has amazing technical specs, it can only be a super fast rocket, go for it!
Extremely helpful video for us newbies!
Nick, you were talking about the helm station. Have you looked at what "Wildling" did to close in their helm? I thought that would have been a good compromise.
ruclips.net/video/sgQ0Od_xnIM/видео.html
Is that the one?
Pretty easy and cheap fix, all that is missing is $100 worth of SS side rails on that bench seat
In looking at that, I would say that was more a sunshade than something suitable for long overnight passages. My concern is something like what Jason and Nikki Wynn had to deal with in this video.
ruclips.net/video/9_cIj3Lx9BY/видео.html
Actually, they had a couple of issues, but you can see that at 3 a.m., in squalls, you don't want to be sitting out in the open without a full dodger or hardtop with enclosures. Notice at about 7:30 when Nikki comes out of the engine room the full enclosure around the helm station, even if it angles outward.
I can't see not having that kind of enclosure if I was going to be doing long distance cruising.
My takeaway is that you two would prefer an Amel 55. Or two of them strapped together. 😉 But I will agree that that is a gorgeous catamaran. My biggest question for Outremere is can you get different engines? We’ve watched Riley replace at least three engine control units.
What a great review I really like that boat. Wish you were also reviewing, comparing and contrasting to similar priced mono hulls.
My big issue has always been, being exposed at the helm, I would rather have a cover area to sit at the helm. A place out of the sun or weather.
billyl allen Boat comes with factory option of dodger/bimini over helm area. I do not know why it was not known/mentioned in this otherwise great review.
ruclips.net/video/sgQ0Od_xnIM/видео.html
I'm very interested to see where you end up in your budget that seems more realistic for the well off but not luckily rich. Likely the value is on the 2nd hand market.
Helm and engine access- Deal Breaker
Jim Wapelhorst Boat comes with factory option of dodger/bimini over helm area. I do not know why it was not known/mentioned in this otherwise great review.
Another great review , just a few simple things for liveaboard , put doors on the shelves on the main cabin near the bed to increase storage . Black mullions look great inside and the cockpit cannot he walked into from the shore like most cats you have to walk over the combing so essentially the cockpit is like a centre cockpit on a monohull giving you more protection . One note,what is the drainage like just Incase you get a big wave in there. ! Take care Darrell
Hi in my work I was lucky to sail the outremer 5x from the factory to stmaartan.
I have done lots of sailing on different cats,
I think for the easy going family sailor , the outremer is a handful, you have to reef dearly early before your out of control , there is a difference of sailing fast , and holding on for your life,
And in 40 in of wind that helm is open,
That’s fantastic to hear mate. Could you possibly let us know any other thoughts you have on this boat as someone who has sailed, but not invested financially? Owners tend to defend their purchases past the point of common sense.
@@sailingrubyrose as you said it's minimalist, no fiddles in cupboards, the oven in a blow is very close to the steps into the hull,
I found the 5x isn't a chill out boat , plodding along at 8-9 knots ,as in your review about the helm, and when it's rough you want to shelter, but that's the time you need to
Be there ,if something happens at 18 knots, you have to react,
All the rigging was connected by dinema, very strong ,but it does still chafe, it did wear through on a reefing line, and I've never had that ever before, and that's holding your rig up,
Lots of rig checks,
I see on the 51 there is no clear walkway to the transom, safe for children, but walking back at sea you put yourself in an unsafe position, get rid of that myth cats don't move and are flat,
If you take a big wave can that area fill ,?
I have found that because the spreaders are swept back you cannot put the main out and get a good presenter, there hang system, jars, and groans constantly,
The location of any generator put in a forward locker ,awesome when it works, not so when you need it it doesn't work, and you have to open a giant hatch, when waves are coming over,
Exciting boats, for a certain market,
And they are fun to dock in a blow,
Canaries to stmaartan 15 and a half days ,, 3 people ,
The boat is nice, but the compromise of the exposed helm & lack of visibility of the main from the inside position turns me off completely. Thanks for drawing attention to the life raft positioning, had not considered this. Seawind wins 😊. Keep up the great work guys, you’re helping us with our choice tremendously.
@seawind does indeed tick so so many boxes
Okay, here's my take. As I've told you multiple times, I'm not a sailor, I've never owned a sailboat, never sailed, and I don't have the experience, so my comments MUST be biased around my LACK of knowledge.
I still, and will probably forever, be in love with the newer Privilege boats, from 2006 or so on, and particularly the Serie 5, 615, Serie 6, and even a couple of the 40-something footers. That Center Master Suite is just killer, even though, as Nick demonstrated, the headroom in the 510 isn't that great. I can deal with that over the bed, I sleep there, not navigate from there.
Having said that, speed is always nice, luxury is always nice, but as Outremer clearly demonstrates, it's not really possible to have both. No walk around berths, a galley that isn't as big, or as safety-minded as I might like (look at the Seawind with the galley down, I'd like that in a higher sea state). I also want to be able to walk around and feel comfortable. Back to the Serie 5/510, you have room on those boats for four staterooms, and they are big and comfortable. Plus, if you wanted to, you can get a full-beam master for a three-cabin setup. Can't beat that.
That's MY bias.
I do agree that Outremer seems to be a quality built cat, the joinery, woodwork and the small touch of engraving in the Corian is nice. If I'm going to be paying that kind of money for a boat, I expect Rolls Royce, Bentley, Gulfstream (jet airplane) and custom Boeing interiors. From what I've seen from your video, Outremer delivers. It's not a 'production' boat. Far better than Neel, but we won't go into that.
Performance. I don't know how I feel about that. I'm single, no significant other, and my sailing companions would probably be feline, and maybe a couple of paid crew (IF I was in the position to do this, I'm not). Maybe get lucky and find a lovely young lady like Terysa, but odds are stacked against me. :) :p
So, do I need to get there, wherever there is, quickly and a bit cramped, or a little more slowly and in a lot more comfort? I agree that a daggerboard equipped sailboat is probably a bit more stable, significantly faster, but is also more work to get the results you want. Who wants to trim the daggerboards in 25 knots of shifting wind at 3 a.m. in the morning?
Layout. So many cruising cats have the master hull and then the guest hull, and I guess that isn't bad, especially if you have air conditioning and can zone it to certain spaces. But, it does limit you in number of guests or extra crew you might carry. If you were doing long passage, i.e., Panama to Tahiti, France to Florida or the Bahamas, having more than just two onboard would be helpful. Four or five might be a better number, especially if you don't have to pay for them! Yeah, food and stuff, but you know, non-paid crew who is looking for bluewater cruising hours or experience. But, that's just me, the more the merrier?
The Helm Station on the 51, to me, is a disaster. I would need to have an enclosure built around it. Either that, or a compete redesign of the hardtop to have an enclosed area extending out past the helm station that can be completely enclosed and heated, if necessary.
You've stated on various occasions that a forward-looking interior Nav Station is almost a requirement, but I have to wonder why. Do you really want to do your watch standing inside, with limited visual cues and limited sightlines? Sure, some cats have interior controls for the helm, and that's not bad, but reefing a line, or changing the take up on a sheet can't be done from inside. BUT, you need to have an enclosure outside for it to be best. Interior Nav stations, In my humbled non-experience opinion, are great for planning out the trip, monitoring weather, and looking at making long-distance decisions for the trip, even for as little as 30 minutes out, depending on the requirement. Autopilot is good for that, as is radar and Predict Winds, etc., and probably IS better done inside, but at least a hand AT the wheel, if not on it, makes me feel more comfortable. But, that's just me. I trust the autopilots in the airplanes I used to fly, I most certainly trust the navigation systems in General Aviation aircraft today, but I'm not going to lean the seat back and take a nap. That's kind of how I feel about watch standing.
As seen by the recent Sail GP, and America's Cup racing, foiling catamarans are the thing. I'm wondering when we're going to see foiling cats as cruising cats? One main foil on either side amidships, and two smaller ones bow and stern, or one smaller on the bow, and the rudders fitted with small foils. Could you imagine 30 knots or so downwind with a 50' cat using a Parasailor? In a LUXURY cat? Not a LuxoPerf cat, but a true luxury one. Forty knots in something like an Outremer or a Catana? LOL
I need to contact Marc Lombard! LOL
As to the lifeboat issue, I agree that is shouldn't be stowed somewhere that you have to open a locker to get to it. Also, considering your comments on the cat that capsized down in Aussieland, I will have to go find the video, but I've seen storage on the coachroof, next to the dingy, and some other 'less desirable' places. I DO like the Outremer solution, accessible from either side of the hull, and for a cruising couple, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind it intruding on the trampoline if it is easily deployed to save their lives.
Anyway, good review. I'm not as biased as you are, I'm not sure I would give it the high score you did, but it wouldn't be too far off of your mark, either.
I'm assuming the manufacturers are watching these reviews. Love to know their responses.
Manufacturers will listen if they so desire yet rarely respond directly. They are driven by their sales, R&D and legal department. The advantage is to those who remain silent and they remain free to make inprovemnts.
Outremer have seen the video and said they were happy with the review 😀
@@sailingrubyrose ... I bet , y'all looking for a deal... hahaha...
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose Your reviews are all really GOOD. Thank you! One thing I wonder in regards to things like no ends (arm rests) on the helm seat and engine access is that maybe you’re speaking from the perspective of someone that’s been thrashed to and fro on a monohull? I say that because a cat, and especially a high performance one like the Outremer 51, moves with little effort and slices through the water like two knives on edge. Point being - it’s a very SMOOTH RIDE.
Great review, as a mono hull cruiser we enjoy seeing how the other half live.
It is a beautifully done performance cat, so a very strong choice if you are wanting that type of boat. However, from a cruiser standpoint, I struggle to consider the performance segment a good fit for cruising, as the ride is quite rough. With cruising as a focus, I think comfort trumps performance. That said, I suppose the counterpoint is you will be uncomfortable for a shorter time, as your passages will be quicker! Also, agree with the emphasis on the open helm. That is an absolute cruising no-go in my opinion.
Sailing a 51 full time for 2 years now. The ride is smooth because of hull design and higher clearance. Open helm is ok for us. The downside of enclosed helms is that in an emergency it takes longer to get to the area needing attention as it is a less direct path.
Let’s face it Riley And Elayna put Outremer on the map and quite literally made it a household name.
Outremer makes a great boat. Personally I like the older models particularly the 53/55 light.
So true! Now, with Lenny... lol
And honestly I feel like most people would much rather share a beer/wine/meal with them, then some overly smug londoners. Lmfao. :P
@@ayungfab3834 but would they want you any where near their boat .... very doubtful
Good to excellent build quality is expected! I want to know how well its wired, instruments and layout, rigging, sails, motor and galley. The tables cusions, beds and such are so much frufru and relatively unimportant. So tell us about the utilities and propulsion more please. Thanks.🤔😎
Fantastic review. Nick had me laughing with selling a kidney.
Narrow hulls equals performance but as I would prefer to live aboard, I prefer space as well as creature comforts. Build quality and fit and finish are amazing. Ryan er Riley (lol) and Alayna could really use the extra space now. They should be upgrading to this larger model. Nick, just come up with something to replace the dangerous mercury fillings that they still use today with something that is safe and you could just write a check for this million dollar masterpiece. Hoping I can make it to Annapolis Boat Show to say hello.
Keep up the great work!
I think when comparing this boat to others one aspect is that in terms of interior space, the Outremer 51 is more comparable to productions 44 or 45s. A 44 might even have a more spacious saloon, cockpit, and island berths. What you're really paying for here is performance. Of course it's a massive performance jump from a 45' production boat to this, but that's partly because it only has the cabin of a 44, but the long hulls of a 51'. It does have a simply massive trampoline. You could have a dance party out there. It's beautiful, but outside my price range.
i think the seawind 1260 is for you guys 560,000 dollars live aboad with lithium and all the goodies
I'm enjoying these reviews even if I am too old to own another boat. Wish boats with all these features and current technology were around 20 years ago when instead of a sailboat I bought a 44' powerboat which I had to give up a couple of years ago. (But the cost of fuel stopped our longer trips long ago.) I saw on Sailing Nahoa (4/14/19) that their bulkheads were breaking loose because many of the manufacturers of catamarans for the charter market fasten them with putty instead of epoxy and fiberglass. Have you considered this issue?
The problem with an open helm station in Australia is that you have no protection from the sun. Death from melanoma is not attractive. I'm sure that there are bimini options that would give shelter. Mind you, the hulls look very nice for performance.
Super series on the cats, Ruby Rose crew. Very, very, very, very good job. As they might say somewhere in the UK, with a throaty royal accent, "Bloody well done, chaps!" (read...Chap and Chapette.)
I'd be interested to hear your comparison of the Outremer 51 and the Balance 526.
that would be an interesting one - I got a test sail on Aloni - a Balance 526 and it is an amazing boat. there really isn't much a comparison as build quality and space on 526 is worlds beyond the O51, but so is the cost at over $1.8M kitted out. There's a new Balance model in the makings that is worthy of a look that will compete with the O51 - same space as the 526 (in a 482 format) with about 90 - 95% of the performance - so it's right there with the O51.
Just watched a review of the Antares 44 and it looks spankingly good. Any plans for you guys to do a review on it ?
Outremer announces it's newest salesman of the Year, NICK just kidding obviously he really likes these woods
Really enjoying this series. When are you going to buy a cat? Can’t wait to watch your transition
😂😂 I really enjoyed this review. Particularly Nick's attempt to overcome the "negative" Helm position. Outremer have definitely stepped up their craftsmanship in the interior, which now is equal to that used in the 5X, ie; flush cabinet doors. I believe that it's already been mentioned in a comment below, the helm position. There are possibilities to enclose that outdoor position and as for the helm seat, being a separate unit as opposed to a moulded seat, modifications should be easy. At the moment there is a family sailing the world with an Outremer 51 "Archer" which has an enclosed helm dodger. As for the engine bay access, I agree that it's not ideal. I wonder, if they were to rotate the hatch opening so that it opens aft instead of to the side, it would give a greater sense of security? Food for thought. Anyway, Terysa, as for the neck "pop" try siting on the other side next time🤣. Great job, as always good fun to watch. Cheers
Hey Hans! Thanks for watching. Yes, we love our enclosed helm and that is an option if you want one. As for the read engine hatch, it's really not a problem. I had to change a fuel filter in rough conditions. I just turned the boat downwind. There was no threat of water coming up the three steps needed to access the engine room, so I don't see this as an issue. And I'd rather the engines be separate from the cabins to reduce noise and make them water tight. But it's just my perspective having sailed the boat with this particular issue.
@@TheSailingFamily Thanks for the feed back. Hope the repairs workout quickly for you!! Cheers
"You buy a boat with your heart" agree.....a BIG heart 😊
A few points I have noticed through this series of reviews which by the way are totally outstanding.#1being none of these expensive vessels are fly by wire meaning I’ve been expecting a joystick control on all of these vessels connected to the navigation station of which you can utilise the boats electronics a lot more easily.#2 why after all these years of yacht and vessel construction design,the manufacturers have never integrated a self inflating bladder design similar to the life vest that would make the vessels unsinkable in any condition,boats shouldn’t sink anymore in this day and age of technology,the human safety factor has to be reviewed in the design and construction phase,after all they want to charge a million dollars for a boat then they need to provide a million dollar guarantee you will survive a mishap.This is not the eighteen hundreds anymore but vessels are still designed on this principle.cheers safe sailing.
Hey mate, thanks for the comment.
To address your points, most autopilots allow the boat to be sailed with push buttons. However sailors normally want to feel the boat and enjoy the mechanical connection.
Re buoyancy, most cats are positively buoyant. Foam cores and plywood mean that a catamaran will rarely ever sink. Most catamarans that are abandoned at sea, wash up somewhere a few months or years later.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose Hello Nickolas,a lovely reply from you,thanks.My point about fly by wire essentially is that no matter where you are in the area of the helm control area or equally you pick up the remote helm control sand walk forward to the windlass and engage engines while lifting anchor,this option should have been provided by now in my opinion.As for abandoning a vessel at sea,the safety item I described should be inbuilt in vessels much earlier as I thought of this as a teen back in the eighties,this should be mandatory in vessel design in thisage,just my opinion thanks for you reply,much love and respect.
I like your boat review series. you do a good job with this format. maybe you can do a mono hull review series?
We probably will review a few monohulls
Garcia Explocat might be worth a look, a real go anywhere cat with alluminium hulls ! Failing that I still think the seawind just takes it by a short head :)
John Baskerville agree - the SEAWIND is better value too..and possibly better performance once you add a cruising payload...
@@towhitby1 ++ for the seawind!
Having just watched your review of the Seawind 1600, the Outremer 51 falls short.
The helming position is really rather poor and I am surprised that Outremer have not put more thought into that crucial point for any one looking for an ocean crossing vessel.
Also I couldn't help notice the position of the throttle controls which are really not great.
Last but not least: Engine access! If you are simply coastal cruising this might be ok but again for anyone considering long distance that access is simply dangerous
When you see all the rest of the boat there is clearly a lot of attention to detail but these three points are disappointing and Outremer should address them.
Glad You agree my friend
This one get my vote. I would look for a used one. I like the Seawind 1600 too but no used one yet. I would ask Outremer owners how they feel about expose help position. From what see, they let the autopilot do the steering and sit inside. As for safety, I sail a lagoon 380 in 4m waves and 30+ wind, and even in those condition you don't feel the need to clip on as you enter the cockpit. The motion is very different and you don't heel enough to loose your footing. Maybe once sitting down at helm at night. Of course, I would clip on if I need to go forward or at the mast. The beauty in a fast cat is that you don't have to take 4m waves and 30 Knots wind, you can sail away from it.
Have you guys had a look at Sunreef?
+1 for the liferaft placement, -1 times two for the engine access, so a net loss on simple stuff, exposed cockpit is also a concern stand your watch where you can control the boat, the nav station is nice but actually IMO you don't control the boat there you make request to the autopilot and then if it can it will respond, while at the cockpit if the auto pilot doesn't respond at 2 am and it won't you can take control of the wheel and steer. Mother Nature and Murphy are strange bed fellows they are both optimist, it is not a question of if it will happen it is a question of when, and with boats at sea that is usually in a storm at 2 am.
There is a factory option for a small Bimini over the helm
hope you get to check out the Maverick in Annapolis.
Sounds like those labor rates are justified when workmanship is top notch.
I would like to see you add interior height in your reviews. My husband and I are both tall and love watching your reviews.
The Volvo-Penta has been a constant problem on other boats. Has this issue been addressed? If it had Yanmar - that would make me more comfortable.
Good review, I really enjoyed it. :)
One thing I don't understand is why "paying for labor" takes away from a boat's score though. That's a good thing I would have thought? The people who built the catamaran aren't having to live off food stamps or whatever, and that would actually be a positive thing for me. I don't see something bordering on indentured servitude as a good thing even if it does result in a bit lower costs for me.
Because it’s value for money my friend. The workers have almost similar qualities of life in different continents. However a worker in South Africa or Vietnam or Taiwan will get paid much less in dollars than a European worker. It means that the boats built in Europe have a much higher cost for labour attributed to the build.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose, Sure but by that logic no one from Europe or other 1st world countries would be able to hold a job. A lawyer in USA costs more than one in Vietnam as well, a CEO makes more in Australia than in Cambodia, a baker makes more in Germany than in Venezuela etc.
Aren't they worth the money you think?
I know that EU has some of the highest standards, controls, requirement etc. in the world that companies must live up to, and I know that the people building my boat (or whatever I'm buying) isn't just trying to crank out as many products per hour as possible because they're dirt poor trying to make a living. I kinda like that to be honest, and if I was buying a catamaran for 2 million euro we've already left "the land of value for money" I think, so if I'm that rich I'd rather pay a bit more and know that what I'm getting meets all the high EU standards, that the company that made it operates under EU laws and regulation in case of faults, warranty issues or whatever and so on. That's a pretty good assurance to have when you're already paying that much for a boat I think. :)
Did you consider a HH50?
Great information, beautifully presented, well done!
Access to the engines are unacceptable and the unprotected helm station makes this boat a no in my opinion. But that’s just me. Others may be fine with it.
Robert! You have critical thinking skills. Additionally, did you observe how low the boom sits in relation to the head of someone sitting in the outdoor helm station? It appears to be a close call. I do not see any excuse for such an exposed helm station. That is for day sailors. As for the interior helm station, one cannot see the water closer than what, a 1000 feet? So, what do you do about seeing a buoy or a small fishing boat or other low profile debris in your path? My aesthetic objection to most cats is that the interiors look more like some landlocked apartment whose builder got a good deal from Scan Design. Glaring white plastic complemented by sharp cornered blond wood. Yuck. It's not like you need to brighten the place up considering there are large ports 360 degrees, plus overheads. Cannot the fiberglass be tinted to a beige or something warm and complemented by teak or cherry looking wood? It (well, not just this cat but most) are not warm, inviting or nautical. More like a Motel 6. If I'm going to spend a million dollars, I want that sucker to look like a yacht. And as you noted, I don't want to flood the engine room trying to make a repair in rough seas. Performance looks good though as long as there no heavy weather and you actually have to be outside sailing the boat.
We agree, helm enclosure is needed!
Wanting that enclosed helm sure does suggest the Antares 44GS. That said, I'm very curious about the life raft stowage on that boat, as it just isn't obvious. I love the GS so much courtesy of its engine placement, etc., but the life raft placement is a huge question mark.