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Some Beatles Fans Shocked as Found Tape Talks Abbey Road Follow Up
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2019
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lp.constantcontactpages.com/s... Beatles Fans Shocked- Found Tape Talks Abbey Road Follow Up
The quote was, 'This tape rewrites everything we knew about the Beatles' Mark Lewisohn who is an expert on the Fab Four has a tape of their last meeting. It's a tape that has inspired a new stage show.
The meeting happened 50 years ago on September 8, 1969, and shows the tension that led to their breakup but also there was a chance of a followup to Abbey Road. This conversation after “Abbey Road” (which was their last album) was finished but not released yet. The band made a tape because Ringo was in the hospital for an intestinal problem so John bought a cassette recorder to record the meeting so Ringo wouldn't feel left out while they talked at Abbey Road headquarters. As John turns on the tape-recorded John is heard saying, “Ringo - you can’t be here, but this is so you can hear what we’re discussing.”
Lewisohn said, “The books have always told us that they knew Abbey Road was their last album and they wanted to go out on an artistic high. But no - they’re discussing the next album. And you think that John is the one who wanted to break them up but when you hear this, he isn’t. Doesn’t that rewrite pretty much everything we thought we knew?”
The tape also has John suggesting a new formula for the band where George would have more songs on the album where John, Paul, and George would each have 4 songs and Ringo could have four if he wanted them. John also suggests that the Lennon/McCartney writing credits should end and individually credited from that point on. As most of you know everything was Lennon/McCartney no matter if John or Paul wrote it. Concerning George having more tunes Paul is heard saying, “I thought until this album that George’s songs weren’t that good,” to which George responds, “That’s a matter of taste. All down the line, people have liked my songs.” Then John gets involved again telling Paul nobody else in the group like Maxwell’s Silver Hammer from Abbey Road and it should have been given to other artists Mary Hopkin who was signed to the Beatles Apple label. John even suggested that Paul didn't even like it. On the tape, Paul says, “I recorded it because I liked it.”
A new stage play called Hornsey Road looks at the breakup of the Beatles using tape, film, photographs, new audio mixes of the music. Lewisohn says, “It’s a story of the people, the art, the people around them, the lives they were leading, and the break-up,” He has written many books on the Beatles. - by John Beaudin
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In the Anthology, Ringo stated that there was no talk about Abbey Road being the final album.... no last song, no last take.
Quite true, they did record I Me Mine for the LIB album by new year 1970, although wothout John. The three of them also did overdubs for the album version of the song Let It Be. If you count these two songs.
I'm not buying this story until I hear the tape in its entirety myself and see Paul and Ringo interviewed regarding the tape and meeting.
Same here.
I've heard this story from another source
Abbey Road was recorded after Let it Be which was shelved and released later, but Abbey Road was their last album.
And its last track is called "The End".
Brother John! Great job as always! I think that I said in another comment that the first record that “I “ owned was the Ronettes, “Baby I love you “. It was a 45 and I played it till it wore out. Then in November of 1963, Presidential Kennedy was killed. February of 1964 the world was introduced to the Beatles. Anyone who had the remotest interest in music had their hearts healed and their lives changed. I’m now 65 soon to be 66 in December and for one am grateful to have had the experience to be able to share in all of this. I wouldn’t change or wonder about what if’s. It was truly the Wonder Years. Thank you again for the story. Have an awesome day, Brother John. God bless.
Paul said seconds later, now George’s songs are as good as ours.
This is indeed a bit of a revelation, John. I've always believed that what they needed at the end of 1969 was a time-out, some time apart for a while to re-imagine the future of the band. I figured that if CSN&Y can come together once in a while then why couldn't the Beatles? Oh, what could have been!
Johm, both Jack Douglas (producer of Double Fantasy) and May Pang have reported that John wanted to record with the Beatles after the tour for Double Fantasy.
John and Yoko were apparently planning a world tour in 1981, which would have been Lennon’s first solo tour. Too bad it never happened.
May's comment - www.riprense.com/lennonreunite.htm - Jack Douglas's comments on working with John. Go to the bottom to read about the reunion but it appears that Jonh and Paul began secretly working together. - gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/producer-jack-douglas-talks-about-his-last-night-with-john-lennon-some-a-hole-shot-him-when-he-got-home
Lennon was in the right track. A new formula. More Harrison. The Lennon/Mccartney thing ending. It makes sense, especially, with George getting more material.
Nth Degree: I don't know if the 4-4-4 deal would have worked. For instance in the "Get Back"/"Abbey Road" period, John himself probably didn't have 8 full songs ready for those albums, unless you counted "Mean Mr Mustard"/"Polythyene Pam"/ "Sun King" as full songs rather than medley fragments. Plus "I Dig A Pony" and "Dig It" were pretty weak.
I think setting a hard quota for songs probably wouldn't have worked over the long run. For instance, HAD they reformed for a 1970 album, GEORGE would probably have had half the songs (considering how many great songs he had ready for "All Things Must Pass.")
John was a good leader and he was very smart . He knew how to delegate and recognized George’s growth
@@reneaguilar3471 You know, John decided to leave the group the same week as this conversation between the three of them took place. He told them he was leaving twelve days later at Apple. John's proposal was more likely a ploy conducted by Lennon/Ono/Klein to marginalize Paul's power in the group, making an offer he could not accept. Whereas George and Ringo, who were already represented by Klein, would have thought of this as a brilliant idea of John's. Well, at least George would have.
@@JStarStar00 uhhhh are you kidding? On Abbey Road/ Let It Be era and 1969 John Scored some of his best ever songs with Come Together, I want you (she's so heavy) (which is essentially 2 songs in 1), Because, I Dig a Pony (sorry but it's a great song), Across The Universe, Old Brown Shoe, Don't Let Me Down (absolute crime to humanity that this wasn't on let it be where it belonged), The Ballad of John and Yoko, Give Peace a chance and then yes the amazing Sun king, aswell as Polethene Pam and mean mr mustard (One after 909 is from like 1960 and dig it isn't really a song). That's 9 before counting Sun king, Polethene Pam and mean mr mustard. Plus John dropped 2 of the best Beatles solo albums in 70 and 71 so he clearly wasn't lacking in quality content.
@@stillaliveplus1forme Across the Universe was rejected as their choice for single in early 1968. Some would say him bringing the song back during the Let It Be sessions is a clear sign of his writer's block.
Mean Mister Mustard and Polythene Pam were also demoed before the white album.
Old Brown Shoe was never a Lennon/McCartney song.
This literally doesn't change a single thing about the break-up. Lennon was known for changing his opinion on a day to day basis, and a few days after this meeting he decided to leave the group and then he told his bandmates hsi decision. Strangely enough on that meeting, Paul suggested they do some gigs, so to call him the reason of the break up is quite silly. They all knew the end was coming and there was no way out from this situation. The way they worked on Abbey Road suggests this. Lewisohn is only being sensationalist here and it's quite gross.
These tapes aren't fully new, Paul's comment can be found in the Barry Miles biography, and just to be clear, when it came to working on George's songs in the studio, Paul was always very cooperative (the bass lines on Something or While My Guitar Gently Weeps, solo on Taxman..) in contrast to John who sometimes decided to not show up for the recordings...
So if you are really a Beatles fan, this doesn't "rewrite everything you knew".
Finally! Someone else that sees through the McCartney / Media charade! Don't get me wrong, I love Paul's work, as well as all Beatles songs and solo material. However, Paul was often the one to cause troubles amongst the Beatles. He is one very self-centered, selfish individual. McCartney Moto- my way or the highway. He must be in heaven these past 8 years now that he and Ringo are the only ones left. Basically can say things were, whatever he wants, and Ringo won't rock the boat. Paul's a typical control freak.
Actually Paul was quite controlling when recording George's song's. George had to let Paul's ideas into his songs so they got recorded. The solo on Taxman was done by George and then he was usurped when George Martin got Paul to do the solo instead. Also George never wanted all the bass runs on ' Something' and instead wanted just a simple bass line. Paul usurped him on that as well.
@@johnbenard9550 And there was never a single trace of self centrerdness in John Lennon. Not at all. He was the saint aboive saints. Halleluja!
I love the Beatles. Always have. Like most fans, I've fantasized about either a hypothetical reunion or, most importantly, never having broke up. But the fact is, and everybody will hate to admit or deny it, that they broke up at the perfect time....on a huge high! Had they stuck it out longer and started getting mediocre, would we really be so obsessed a half century later?
John!!!! Thank you sooo much for posting this video, probably the "Best" new news on the Fab Four I've heard in a long...long time... I just "Subscribed" ….. LM
Very interesting. Love the Beatles.
It sort of did happen. The Beatles first solo albums, all contained songs they wrote when they were in the Beatles.
There will never be another Beatles. I was so happy to discover them in the Seventies. Every paycheck buy a new album. Back then Capital put out a lot. Its good it ended. I think it ended well.
Basically the conventional wisdom on the Beatles' breakup is that John & George both wanted out of the Beatles whereas Paul did everything he could to keep the group from splitting. And even though Paul was the first Beatle to publicly announce he was leaving, he was actually the last Beatle to quit (surprisingly Ringo was the 1st to quit in 1968 but was then coaxed back by the other three). And while this is (for the most part) the agreed upon narrative by scholars & fans & the Beatles themselves, it is an oversimplification of the truth of their breakup.
There are plenty of examples of the individual members at one time or another speaking out in ways contrary to the roles they’ve been historically assigned (John & George wanting out, Paul trying to hold it together). For example, I’ve heard audio tapes from the endless hours recorded for Let it Be where Paul is the one seemingly anxious for the band to break up & John is the one enthusiastic to keep it going.
There’s also conversations where Paul is the one encouraging George’s songwriting & John is giving George the cold shoulder (the last Beatle song ever recorded-George’s I ME MINE-John wasn’t even involved with). George can also be heard saying how he wants to keep the group going but he might just go & make a little solo album in between Beatle projects (which eventually became the album ALL THINGS MUST PASS).
The point being, don’t put too much stock into these hours & hours of recorded conversations they were having at this time. Whatever was said by any one of them in private between themselves was taken with a huge grain of salt by the other three. We should probably do likewise. And as for the big “what if”-I think the Beatles broke up not one moment too soon or too late. Abbey Road is one of the great artistic achievements in rock. The only direction it could’ve gone from there was down.
I do remember Paul referencing discussing the "new formula" John refers to towards the end of the band in past interviews, saying that he wasn't OK with it because it wasn't "the right balance." It was never clear though when this conversation happened, so now that little bit of information has a context. Very cool!
Knowing now what everyone has learned over the intervening 50 years, including history of bands like The Rolling Stones and many others, if all 4 Beatles could go back in a time machine to 1969, they would probably say, let's take one year completely off.
No Beatles activity for a year. In the meantime if any of us want to do solo albums, solo tours, play in groups with Eric Clapton or anybody else, go march in peace marches, go ahead. Do whatever you want. Go sit on the farm in Scotland if that's what you want to do.
After one full year is done -- maybe make it 16 or 18 months -- THEN we get together and decide what, if anything, we want to do as a band. Maybe do a one off single. Maybe a live show at a small club. Maybe do a rough and raw album in 2 weeks, or maybe spend 6 months on another "Abbey Pepper."
Take a whole year off and come back fresh.
But in 1970 the idea of a band taking a whole year off was pretty much unheard of. So if you were suggesting "let's take a year off" people interpreted it as "we're breaking up for good."
Plus the money situation in 1969, due to the fallout of the entire Apple fiasco and Allen Klein screwing them over, they really couldn't "take a year off" -- they had to keep hit records coming.
Even 9 months....from 1963 to 1969 they hardly had two or three months away from each other.....you're right, take a year off in the '70's and your career might be in jeopardy (not with the Beatles though, fans would have been patient) and to think 20-30 years later U2 used to bring out an album every four or five years.
I agree with you, but I don’t think Paul would have gone for it.
The Apple money problem is why they resurrected the Winter 1969 "Get Back" project in January 1970. The now-titled "Let It Be" album, released May 1970, was the result.
The quote "The books have always told us that they knew Abbey Road was their last album" seems to me a history rewrite in itself. I was never under the impression that they recorded Abbey Road knowing it would be their last.
In the Anthology, George Martin said: “Nobody knew for sure that it was going to be the last one, but everybody felt it was.”
Ringo: “It was always a possibility we could have carried on. We weren’t sitting in the studio saying okay this is it, last record, last track”
alot of what you're talking about is covered in a book about JOHN LENNON written in the late 70's by one of his assistants named ANTHONY FAWCETT but the book is not very well known amongst BEATLES fans since it's actually a book about JOHN LENNON and not them but this "final meeting" was actually recounted in that book but like i said it's not very well known so it's not surprising it slipped most people's notice.
Anthony Fawcett entered the London art world shortly after attending Abingdon School, when he became an assistant at the Robert Fraser Gallery.
Fawcett later joined Lennon and Ono in the spring of 1968, as they made their first joint forays into avant garde art during the first flush of their romance (including two acorns planted near Coventry Cathedral, and Lennon's You Are Here, which consisted first of helium balloons with attached cards released into the English sky, then a room of charity collection boxes at the Robert Fraser Gallery surrounding the message "YOU ARE HERE" in Lennon's handwriting), Fawcett served as their personal assistant until their departure for New York City at the end of 1971.
Fawcett witnessed firsthand many of the goings-on at Apple's Savile Row headquarters (also chronicled in The Longest Cocktail Party by Richard DiLello), and many of the business and interpersonal breakdowns that marked the end of the Beatles as a group.
He later wrote a biography, John Lennon: One Day at a Time, published by Grove Press in 1976.[1] A 1980 reissue (with updates) of this book inadvertently played a role in Lennon's murder, as Mark David Chapman bought and read a copy, discovering Lennon wasn't living in retirement at Tittenhurst Park as Chapman had thought, and that Lennon had resumed his musical career in New York.[citation needed]
"What if" indeed! Although I love all the Beatles' albums, Abby Road is my favorite, probably because it set the stage for '70's progressive rock. It was, as John pointed out, their most refined effort, with its early use of interplaying synthesizers and its extended compositions that contained multiple time changes. So if that's the direction they were headed, the next album in line might have been another blockbuster!
I don´t like how The Guardian portrays the conversation, is tendentious. Paul wasn't alone in that view. Lennon didn't think much of George's earlier songs either, and neither did George Martin. And I don´t understand why Lewisohn sees this tape as evidence that John didn't want to end the band. Lennon was asking for a divorce two weeks after this tape was made.
John barely even played on George's songs from 68 and on. And anyone who bought Anthony Fawcett's book had a transcript of this meeting 40 years ago. www.amazon.com/John-Lennon-One-Day-Time/dp/0394177541/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=Anothy+Fawcett+Lennon&qid=1568506629&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Truth.
Negotiation tactics. That is what it was. If Klein had called that meeting Paul would of course see through it. Good old Brian Epstein never interfeared in how the band was organising things and put their albums toghether. He was all in for the band and the unity unlike Klein who was hored basically to be Johns "divorce lawyer".
John Lennon created the Beatles wether people like it or not and Paul was very good at taking over instead of trying to keep things in humility . Lennon was not very humble either so he was going to take control back of the Beatles or that was it . Evidence that Paul did not like it was he did not accept the formula . Which Lennon knew was going to happen knowing that Paul was a egomaniac who by then thought himself the undisputed leader . 😂😂😂😂or what?
Now I wanna hear this tape...
Captain Robert April
You and me both !
That meeting was reported in Anthony Fawcet's Lennon book from the early 70s.
Nicholas Schaffner mentions this in his book "The Beatles Forever" (1977). Apparently Andy Warhol was hanging around Apple a lot at the time (along with lots of other hangers-on) and had a habit of letting tape recorders eavesdrop on private meetings. According to Schaffner, during this particular meeting, John and George told Paul that from now on the three of them must each be given precisely four song per album. With Ringo getting to add one or two if he so desired. Paul's response was, supposedly, that sort of arbitrary regimentation was more suited to the military than to the Beatles. But John and George said it was the only way to guarantee a fair shake for all. I can't confirm if the Andy Warhol part is accurate. Some sources say John made the tape so Ringo could hear the discussion due to his absence.
Why am I just hearing about this now 3 years later??
All four Beatles actual "very last meeting" was Sept 20, 1969. Lennon announced he "wanted a divorce." Audio tape is from Sept 4th 1969. Also, This news is old. Read John Lennon: Days of our lives (1975) and The Beatles Forever (1978). The transcribed audio recording is in the 1975 book and mentioned in the 1978 book. Mark Lewisohn is strategically working the Abbey Road 50th anniversary to boost ticket sales to his live talks about the Beatles. Hardcore Beatle fans have known about this audio recording for decades.
Thought the book was “One day at a time”.
George said that the break up started in 1966. No one to blame.
That's when Paul died ...
@@Tonetwisters lol idiot
@@Tonetwisters took the word right out of my mouth
I think in many ways George was right -- I know he always spoke very highly about the RUBBER SOUL and REVOLVER sessions, and said that's when The Beatles were really working together as a band -- but then PEPPER came along and they seemed to adopt an assembly line approach where songs would take weeks to put together and they weren't all playing together then -- plus George was getting more deeply into all things Indian. Everyone blames Yoko for the split but that's baloney -- it was more a case of three very different artists growing apart (and poor Ringo trying to be the peacemaker).
@@JohnCee754 Couldn't disagree more. Yoko was a major part of it all. Telling them what they should be doing, sitting in a bed in sessions...PLEASE. The others are on record as not liking that nonsense, or John's dumb nude album cover.
The Beatles should have done a live album at the end, they were very good live...
Let it Be was supposed to be that. But ultimately there wasn't enoigh interest to make that a reality
In the late seventies when Paul McCartney signed with Columbia Records he had the exclusion that released him to record with the Beatles. And before John's death he had suggested setting aside songs for a Ringo album from the other two Beatles as well. It was thought that this would be a stealth way to collect songs for a Beatles album without causing too many eyebrows to be raised. And of course John's murder ended that. And some of the songs that were written for Ringo ended up on his Stop and Smell the Roses album
John's song for Ringo, "Nobody Told Me" and George's song for Ringo, "All Those Years Ago", that might have been a great Ringo album.
What if we basically know some of the best songs that they all released after they broke up so just imagine that the best of them were on an album. If you think about there done that for the early 70s damn they still would’ve been really good.
Very interesting 👍👍😎
The existence and content of this tape has been known within Beatle expert circles. It’s not new, but there was prominent publicity this week to promote that show. It’s not the last meeting. And the Beatles, like many partnerships, would tape meetings when a partner is not present. This is a few days before John goes to Toronto to play in the Live Peace festival. The next meeting is Sept 20 after his return. It is also taped, this time due to George’s absence. In it, John says he wants a divorce. He may have been bluffing and half expect Paul to round them up for the next record as he had done in the past. But this time Pail took him up on it and worked on a solo album, announced the following Spring. John Lennon abruptly changing his mind is a consistent theme in his life story, this is merely another example.
There is some truth in this, but as ever, not wholly so, and truth of this nature is often subjective. You are right in that taping meetings for missing bandmates was commonly done, and usually by John, though Paul was the big tape fiend. What you say about the Plastic Ono Band Toronto gig is also true - that did change John's mind about the possibilities of life after the Beatles. If there was ever a distilling moment in the break up of the Beatles, then that is the clearest one there is. There were others, Yoko attending studio sessions, but when Paul started bringing first Jane Asher, then Linda, and George Patti and Ringo Maureen, that became less of an issue...at least until George slept with Maureen.
The other two big issues at this point were the hiring of Allen Klein (Paul was proven right about him), Paul going behind John's back to buy extra shares in Northern Songs (His father in law Lee Eastman had told him he and John should own them outright, Paul didn't tell John). George's claim that the Beatles started breaking up when they finished touring in '66 doesn't hold a lot of water, they merely went their own ways for 3 months as they figured out who they were going to be now they were not merely 'fabs', but the real kernel if someone is looking for a starting point was the death of Brian Epstein. His influence meant they all thought anything was possible - his death brought doubt and an innate sense of insecurity, especially to John and Ringo.
Of the idea the Beatles on completion of Abbey Road thought another album down the line was possible, there can be no doubt. It was a happy session overall, in which John exerted himself more than he had for 'Get Back/Let it Be' and George was given some space - Even George Martin enjoyed it for the first time since Sgt Pepper. So if you're looking for a key moment which effectively slammed the brakes on, it was 13 September 1969 in Toronto, when John Lennon realised he no longer needed the band he had formed in Allerton all those years ago.
That was likely Lennon putting his best spin as a happy gesture given Ringo's circumstances. People like to think life can be lyrical as in there being just one last discussion or statement between band members. But life tends to be a little messier than that. Being such dear friends for so long likely pulled on that chain allot at the end. Breaking up is actually hard to do.
Agree .....There will never be another BEATLES . Ringo the least of the 4 have 5 solo singles in the top 40 and played guitar , bass, drums and keyboards. We will never that again.
Daniel,if you like the Beatles,get the Cd "Hayman's Green "of the Pete Best band, you will love it 👍🎵
I think they were all hot and cold over the idea of staying together from mid-1968 to late-1969.
I think the one biggest factor in the breakup was Allen Klein's mismanagement and ripping off the band members. As this situation continued and continued to get worse the temptation had to be too much or Paul to resist saying, "I told you so," which would obviously piss the hell out of the other three. And since the management alternative Paul offered was Lee Eastman, his new father in law, the other three had to have the feeling the whole thing was just subterfuge for Paul to take complete control.
Of course as it turned out in the next several years it turned out Paul was completely right, Klein was ripping them all off, but the other 3 didn't want to admit it.
John Lennon, talking to Weekend World, April 1973:
Q: John, can you tell me what happened with Allen Klein, why you and the other two[George and Ringo] finally try to get rid of him?
John: Well, there are many reasons to finally give him the push. Although I don't want to go into details of it...let's say that..possibly Paul's suspicions were right ...and the time was right.
EmileGilbert There were still lawsuits going on in 1973 and John George and Ringo agreed at that time Klein had screwed them.
John makes some comments in his 1980 interviews following Double Fantasy that there are some aspects of Beatles reunion talk he really can't talk about because lawsuits were still ongoing.
The lawsuits surrounding Apple Corps and Klein were not finally settled until the early 90s I believe. The Anthology project was not really possible until Klein was effectively out of the picture.
Paul's refusal to show up for the RNRHOF induction ceremony in 1987 was still related to this.
@@JStarStar00 George's legal wranglings over My Sweet Lord lasted until 1993, or something like that, so it sounds familiar. All for the sake of having a #1 single... Linda wasn't too happy about Paul not showing up at the ceremony in...1988, I think you'll find.
Paul: George’s songs weren’t that good...
George: Hold My Beer
Yeah, had they made that album, Harrison would have had "My Sweet Lord", Lennon "Imagine" and "Jealous Guy". Paul's early solo songs weren't so strong.
After the Beatles ended, but *before* John got murdered(Maybe I'm Amazed wasn't even released as a single):
#1 Singles, Billboard[Hot 100]; Paul: Uncle Albert(Admiral Halsey), My Love, Band on the Run, Listen To What the Man Said, Silly Love Songs, With a Little Luck and Coming Up.
*Seven in total* [Live and Let Die got to #2]
John, George *and* Ringo: My Sweet Lord, Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth), Photograph, You're Sixteen and Whatever Gets You Through the Night.
*Five in total* [For whatever reason, the Imagine single only got to #3 on Billboard in 1971[behind Cher and Theme from Shaft]; in Britain it was released in 1975 and got to #6, then re-released in *1981* and got to #1]
#1 Albums, Billboard; Paul: McCartney, Red Rose Speedway, Band on the Run, Venus and Mars, Wings at the Speed of Sound and Wings Over America.
*Six in total* [Ram and London Town got to #2]
John, George *and* Ringo: All Things Must Pass, Imagine, Living in the Material World and Walls and Bridges.
*Four in total* [The Concert for Bangladesh and the Ringo album got to #2]
In Britain Paul only had one #1 single - Mull of Kintyre. George had one as well - My Sweet Lord. John and Ringo had none.
Paul and the others did equally bad[Although Another Day, Silly Love Songs, Let 'Em In and Coming Up got to #2; as did Give Peace a Chance back in 1969 and Back Off Boogaloo in 1972]
#1 Albums in Britain; Paul: Ram, Band on the Run, Venus and Mars and McCartney II.
*Four in total* [McCartney and Wings at the Speed of Sound got to #2]
John, George *and* Ringo: All Things Must Pass, Imagine and the Concert For Bangladesh.
*Three in total* [Living in the Material World got to #2]
They knew they had hit a homerun with Abbey Road, especially with George's songs. I'm sure there had been talk about doing another but the wounds were just too deep. No doubt it would have been great!
Good point! The success of Abbey Road was probably the catalyst for their fleeting enthusiasm.
I seem to remember part of this interview in print, years ago-
The discussion of 4 songs each
(except for Ringo, 2 if he wants them:) - and the exchange RE: Maxwells Silver Hammer- but
further on in the discussion it became more contentious and
John blurted our his famous
“I want a divorce” - in the same interview! Granted I’ve probably read more on this stuff than I should, but I kinda feel that this ‘newly discovered interview’ is being used for promotion (Lewisohn’s Show, abbey road anniversary) ...and that it may be out of context & misleading, because of how it was edited.
I agree. None of this is new info. But this seems to be spun against Paul. Why haven’t they released the entire tape - just snippets that make Paul the bad guy. Suspicious to say the least. Also, they never released a single or new music again other than finishing up Let it Be. They may have been going thru the motions at this meeting and they all knew Abbey Road was the last hurrah. I will only believe the spin if I get to hear the whole tape and not a few quotes taken out of context by someone with an agenda. And since this has been known for sometime it doesn’t change the history at all.
It was the Toronto Rock and Roll Revival that Lennon played at a few days later that effectively changed his mind. There he played with new people, and got a real rush from it, after being so nervous and doubtful before. It's no coincidence that only a few days after the concert, Lennon announced privately he was leaving the group. Being a Beatle was all he knew for years, and it dawned on him after that concert that he didn't need to be. Interviews the next year, before the official breakup, show that Lennon was open to play with the Beatles again but they'd have solo outings mixed in between. After Paul announced he was leaving, both George and Ringo assured the public it wouldn't be permanent, and they'd all be back playing Beatles music again in the near future. The fact that Lennon went half a year without going public goes to show he just wanted some space, and I'm sure if Paul hadn't made it official, the band would have continued. A late 1970 or 1971 album would've been terrific as a deep depression and despondency gave Paul some writers block with the actual scenario that happened.
Nah, he had played the RnR Circus well before that.
Yaeh, he got a rush from the gig but unfortunately nothing much came out of it. He only did stage show 2 times more before his death and had long periods with no creativity at all. I think he did regret breaking up The Beatles by the mid-70s although he never said so openly. But it is clear if you read between the line in interviews he gave at that time.
That is very interesting.
Harrison's songs were amazing "Taxman", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "Something" and "Here comes the Sun". But he wasn't prolific.
John T he couldn’t be prolific because of Lennon/McCartney. What I mean is he probably was but I didn’t show on the beatles albums. His album All Things Must Pass was comprised of a back log of music he had written. Even the song all things must pass was on the beatles anthology 3. Wah Wah was written I think during the beatles years too.
Not quite true as most of the songs on 'all things must pass' were from rejected Beatles songs. He also had a number of other songs that were left out of the album and either discarded, recorded later or given away to other artists.
@@dannyvine3605 Most of the songs? Isn't It a Pity had been rejected once or twice[possibly as early as 1966]. And then probably the title track. But there are 20+ songs on the album, which he didn't even start recording until late May 1970, eight months after John's announcement, and a month and a half after Paul's. Plenty of time for George to come up with a good dozen of new songs. [Reading the wikipedia entry on All Things Must Pass suggests that about half a dozen George songs had been rejected by the band. But we're talking about a triple album!]
Interestingly enough, if you look at the songs that were introduced in the Abbey Road sessions, but didn't make it onto the album, you can see several familiar solo titles, like: Hear Me Lord, Give Me Some Truth, Back Seat Of My Car, Let It Down, Child Of Nature (which became Jealous Guy), Every Night, Hot As Sun, Another Day, Isn't It A Pity. And of course there were outtakes from 1968 as well: Not Guilty, Teddy Boy, All Things Must Pass, and Junk. Lots of material from George and Paul, and a little John.
Most of those songs are from Let it Be / Get Back session. And I really think John was spent after his tremendous output from The White Album. The last thing he needed was sessions as quickly as Jan 1969.
Back Seat of My Car would have worked great somewhere in the AR Medley, the George songs were fine for a solo outing but didn't fit The Beatles at all. "Isn't It A Pity" starts strong but goes nowhere, turns into one long dirge. Not Beatles. On the other hand "What Is Life" would have been nice as a Beatles outing but didn't fit Abbey Road very well, way too Phil Spector laden.
How about playing the tape ...
Good question. Apple apparently does NOT want it released #WPRPN
It's a interesting journey right now !
Well in the "McCartney" deluxe remaster set, Paul says "Believe me, I went back and George went back and we all went back and said 'Hey, should we not break up?'" So maybe that was a veiled reference to this tape? You know how Paul is. You'd ask him now and he'd be like, "Well it could've been....I'm not too sure."
Well it was 50+ years ago, Paul's old now and he probably doesn't even remember about the tape.
As always thx for the very informative history John. You’d have a million subscribers if it were done on merit.
Everything The Beatles did including their breakup was perfect. The Beatles were told to break up. Some things we will never know...
This meeting was a few weeks before the meeting where John said he wanted a divorce from the group. After that time, John showed no interest in anything Beatles and only kept quiet about his intentions to help the sales of the upcoming releases of the Let It Be movie and album. By the spring of 1970, six months had gone by and Paul realized that John wasn't being simply melodramatic. He decided to announce his departure as a way to end the charade. Paul caught all of the flack for breaking up The Beatles. John was furious. He started the group and he wanted to officially end it. Actually, Paul did him a favor. John didn't need any more bad press and hits to his reputation. He was looked upon by many at the time as a fallen idol. His politics, antics with Yoko and his sharp tongue rubbed a lot of people wrong at the time. Time and his murder has washed away many of those negative feelings towards him.
What if a new tape is discovered and a new Beatles album comes out. 🙃
It really doesnt feel like 50 years since abbey road, we are still getting new news AND a possible last beatles album
George had mentioned when doing the 30th Anniversary edition of 'All Things Must Pass" that 'Isn't It a Pity' would have been a Beatles Song
Like that track but the fade out is a little bit too close to 'Hey Jude'.....'What is Life', 'Ballad of Sir Frankie Crisp', 'Beware of Darkness', 'I Dig Love' could have been great Beatles tracks.
I have a theory, given this new information. I think the Beatles wanted to do other things but yet not break up the Beatles. I feel like they were nervous about the idea of ending this musical and personal support system. The band of brothers since childhood. So even though they didn't want to be around each other much at that time, they were hesitant to rip off the bandage and face the facts. So they were even willing to change their formula and stay together just so that they don't have to face the impending break up. Once they broke up, they realized things were gonna be ok and they didn't have to worry
They should have just took a couple of years off and done other things. Then got back together again.
I’ll remain skeptical about this, until the tape is released. Maybe the conversation did take place, and the things that were reported as being said were actually said. But as of right now - Sept 17, 2019 - there are only two people who have PURPORTEDLY heard this tape; Beatles biographer Mark Lewisohn, and Richard Williams, reporter with The Guardian.
Part of my skepticism on this is because Lewisohn is also working on a play, which is described by him as being centered around this tape and it’s conversational content...
Which seems to be... well... “interesting timing”.
Lennon’s part in this alleged conversation doesn’t sound at all like where John was, and how he was feeling and thinking at that time. His main focus was Yoko, and his own music, which he knew would never be recorded by The Beatles, and didn’t really want them to be. He’s said in many interviews in the past that the Beatles were long overdue for a “divorce”, that he didn’t want to be in the group anymore. McCartney’s end of the alleged conversation does seem to be on par with his overall sentiment when it came to George’s songwriting - which was stupid, as Harrison had written plenty of great songs during the years of The Beatles (Don’t Bother Me, Happy Just To Dance With You, If I Needed Someone, Taxman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps...not counting his stunning stellar contributions to Abbey Road)...
Perhaps this tape is real, perhaps it does contain what is reported. All that said, (including what I’ve said above) even if it IS real, and DOES contain what Lewisohn claims, what does it really matter now? It doesn’t change anything, it certainly doesn’t bring them back, but it also doesn’t change all the great music that they gave us, music that we still enjoy listening to over a half century later.
The Beatles as a band are dead. They died when they broke up in April 1970.
Long may they live. 🙏
FWIW
Happy Just To Dance With You is a Lennon/McCartney song.
That was a good tease
Wow it's so sad to here the lads final hooora with a bang as we treasure the songs the love and the best music of love any one band could make a thank you to the Fab 4 forever you will be loved God Bless The Beatles "All You Need Is Love" 🎉
This comes out 50 years later ? Let's hear it then ! There's been a lot of impersonation stuff through the years
I'm starting to think that with all these newly mixed reissues, and this "newly discovered" tape, this could be a big lead up to something...perhaps a final recording??? One can dream, no?
Man. I wanna hear that tape.
This has to be put in context and also one has to take into consideration lennon,s personality and sarcasm. The facts speak for themselves: after Abbey Road, the four of them never again reunited in one single place. Too much interpretation and rewriting of history. The facts speak for themselves.
Ironically, I think this confirms that Paul, the one who most wanted them to stay together, was the real catalyst for the breakup. His controlling and dominating attitude is clearly evident, especially in his attitude toward George. If he had lightened up a bit, they may have lasted for several more years.
If it wasn't for Paul, the rest of the Beatles would never have worked. It was paul who got them back in the studio recording.
Are you kidding me lmao. From Sgt Pepper on Paul was the one holding the band together and literally like a week after this meeting Lennon announced he was leaving the group. The guy was all over the place. Paul even suggested that they should do some small gigs, it's ridiculous to say that he was the reason behind the break up. If John and George wouldn't have been so up in their own asses and hadn't been blinded by Allen Klein's fake manouvering they could have lasted.
I wanted to jump on this, fly off the handle, and call BS - that John had always claimed the Beatles were his and only his to break up, but a cooler take is needed. I can agree with you: Paul, more than any of them, desperately wanted the band to stay together and when it appeared that wasn't going to happen, then "alas! Vengeance will be mine!" and he walked. Y'know, there are several well-documented times since where 2 or 3 of them got together, and on pleasant terms. Makes you wonder if there were times when all 4 were back together in one room just spilling truth and telling lies.
Actually Paul this tape recording doesn't really confirm anything, there are many conversations that were put on tape where John, Paul and George express different views on the band splitting up / staying together depending on what mood they were in that particular day, and George said in interviews years later that John often showed no interest in his songs and didn't play on them. I've read several books about The Beatles and it's clear that at times all three of them could be a bit spikey with each other ( John and George almost came to blows on one occasion ). I think the truth is there were several factors in the break up and in my opinion the main one was the appointment of Alan Klein as their financial manager.
True
Hi, I heard some of the interview and John Lennon, George and Paul, John is quite clear about their intentions. McCartney is out if it, John and George can be heard quite clearly, no suspicion at all.
I agree, we heard nothing about the tape except part of it is in the book by Bob Gruen where some of it was used in his book on John Lennon. Apple only allowed what was in the book to be broadcast, not only that Apple were not happy Mark was doing so many gigs about the Tape recording. Mark was doing it to earn cash as he is still working on Part two of the Trilogy and was low on cash. Hope that helps👍😃
Ken
Wow! 🍏🍏🍏🍏
I can remember wanting to go by the music isle, when ever we went to the mall. I knew that "their" 45s had this orange sun swirl look. If I am remembering it correctly.
I love "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"!!!!
THE proposed 4-4-4-(2?) song division has been known for 40 years.
I had read Paul had "Maybe I'm Amazed" waiting in the wings for a possible Beatles album after Abbey Road. Imop, you can't base their 1970 solo work to say that's what they would've put out. I think they would've put out stronger material than that.
To add to your comment with george Martin and the other 3 that song may have sounded way different if they did it as the Beatles. When you do solo work whatever song you record is done the way you hear it as the writer .So without input from at least John it is what it is.
The reason it didn't happen and they the Beatles didn't go along with Lennon's plan because they, the other three knew John was trying to monopolise Yoko into the band and that's what would have happened if the others had gone along with what John was suggesting. As George said about John's plan 'John could be a manoeuvring swine when he wanted to be', how do you think, a Beatles album would sound with Yoko's cat-a-walering on 4 of Lennon tracks and him being a number one member of the group. If that had happened I don't think we would have remembered them how we do today!
If there is such a record why didn't Mark Lewison make it public? Why are these intrigues? As for the next band's album which `discussed`, I don't think Lennon was going to record anything. I draw this conclusion from his formal and meaningless proposals. In the era of smart concept rock albums it was madness to keep releasing hits in compilations of 14 songs. And it was even more insane to divide the number of songs between the members. It seems to me that Lennon proposed all this knowing in advance that McCartney would refuse to discuss nonsense. Thus, Lennon had a reason to leave the group. At the same time he remained a dove of peace and had a record to confirm this.
Ringo in the Anthology documentary did in fact state at the time the mindset of the band was they were considering the possibility of more recordings in the future
But George Harrison and George Martin both said they knew Abbey Road was the last.
John wanted to take credit for breaking up the Beatles but he actually only ever said (December 1969) that he was thinking of/intending to leave the group. This was in hindsight after Paul initiated the court case to break up the Beatles, with John leading the opposition. When Paul won the case, John, George and Ringo drove to his house and John climbed over the fence and threw a brick into the window.
I’m crying
Scott Anderson ok
I remember a Rolling Stone Magazine interview with McCartney in the 80's where he said he asked John why he wanted to leave the band, and McCartney said Lennon responded "because I think you're nuts"!
I remember listening to an early 1970 interview with John Lennon, where John Lennon does suggest this (four songs for himself, four songs for Paul, four songs for George, and a song or two for Ringo), but he said this was turned down during the interview we gave. I also remember many times George Harrison state that he would join a band if John Lennon was in it, but he would never join a band that had Paul McCartney in it (maybe George felt resentment for Paul McCartney I’m not appreciating his music). In addition, maybe this is why John Lennon felt so hurt in the early 70s when he spoke about Paul McCartney, as John get the public blame for breaking up the Beatles, when actuality maybe that really never happened the way we believed. Also in the middle of 1969, did not Paul McCartney go behind all the Beatles backs, and purchase additional stock in their company to have controlling interest over the other three. Maybe John wasn’t as bad as people believed, and maybe Paul was a saint as people always gave them credit for.
Quite the opposite. George's closest friend was probably Paul, whom he'd known since a young child.
That wasn't Paul. It was Billy.
I think that like you, surely most of us know a story about this that has nothing to do with the truth. Now I stopped seeing John and Paul in the same way, especially Paul, since I don't think he was the most involved in keeping the band together, since they have made us believe so far.
Maybe they were all human? My imperession is that more people look upon John Lennon as the saints of all saints and of Paul as bad.
Didn’t know iron man liked beatles
It was probably a polish up of Let it Be. John had the tapes that he gave to Spector in abbey road in 1970. They booked studio time in April 1970, where only 3 of them turned up. That’s probably it.
I always thought that it was Paul running to the press and saying he was leaving that truly broke up the band. All of the guys had left at certain points and gotten over it. John probably wasn't completely serious when he told them he wanted a "divorce." He said in later interviews that he wanted Cold Turkey to be the next Beatles single....
Subsequently, no Beatle ever said that any of them thought that Road was the last album. That was just made up by the fans and others because it sounded good and tied everything up in a nice package. But at the time, this was not their thinking.
That explains GH's comment that it FELT like the end by the time of Abbey Road, but not that it was THE END
That's not what George Martin says in the Anthology
I will defend Maxwell's Silver Hammer until my dying day.
great tune and incredibly morbid. never have understood why LENNON and HARRISON hated it so much.
It's the turd in the punch bowl that is abbey road. Harrison had tons of better songs available at the time
MACABRE L.A. AND RINGO! He hated it too!
subg88 I love “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer,” but I totally agree...George had some killer songs that I believe could have easily been used instead if it wasn’t for large egos. Still, “Abbey Road” is my favorite album & “All Things Must Pass” is my favorite solo Beatles’ album, so I’m pretty damn happy with how things turned out regardless! 😄
Maxwell was a corny song n Paul would prove later on that he had an unfortunate inclination to “corn ball”
Hence the miserable miserable band wings...John was right
No 1. Don’t put George’s shit down when yer recording garbage like maxwell
No 2. If you need to go cornball because it’s trapped in yer system...give it to cornball pop artist on our label
•very sound advice
It's interesting to hear about an album which they never made and which only existed as a passing thought that was probably forgotten even by them.
The fact that many are now squealing about a non-existent album tells me that some people need to get a life already.
Eric Campbell Shrewd first sentence, better stand alone.
The people who needs to get a life are those people 50 years after this are "siding" with John post-mortally in a conflict that was BURIED in 1974, 45 f*king years ago and go on about bowoho Paul is an arshole for what he did half a century ago. They buried that conflict in 1974!! Why cant you?
Gosh, now i really wonder !
Hi. Was that a TEAC A3300 reel deck I spotted behind you ?
I could have cared less about another Beatle Album . As a Fan i were looking for a Farewell Tour of sorts . We deserved one i feel anyway .
You most likely mean you "couldn't have cared less."
This is very interesting ,I wonder what the new albums name would have been?
How about "Everest."
"Everyday Chemistry?" 😉
In the BW picture at about 1:24, George looks almost exactly like Keith Richards.
OMG YES
They all said at the Anthology vídeos that they knew Abbey Road would be the last one.
The power of hindsight, though...
Its a good news story but Im highly skeptical and the surving Beatles would have mentioned this. The Beatles last released album was "Let It Be" but the actual last recorded one was "Abbey Road" and they went out with a bang! Enough said.
Nobody from The Beatles didn't mention it because they forgot about it or the tape is bogus.
Honestly, wasn't Plastic Ono Band earliest sessions with George and Ringo, but Paul refusing to show up?
No, they wasn't part of the first lineup of the band, which where for the recording of Give Peace a Chance. They wasn't even in the second line up, which was the live gig at Toronto Rock and Roll Revival Festival.
Paul never much cared for Yoko, and that is one of the biggest reasons for the breakup of the band. Unlike John, Paul never saw the need to have his girlfriend at the time (Linda) sit in on any recording sessions. He believed that was unnecessary. Eventually, the band had all their girlfriends there for Abbey Road. They even put a bed in the recording studio where all the girls could lay down or whatever while the band was recording. There are pics of the girls all sitting on the bed while John and Paul are recording.
@@cgvapors963 Ringo and especially George didn't like Yoko being in the studio, either.
The Plastic Ono Band was never to be a real band, with a stable, continuing line-up of musicians. It was John's outlet for his own non-Beatles recordings. The POB was whatever musicians (and semi-musicians) were around when John recorded his tunes.
Tired of it all. All the rehashing. Can't wait for the 75th Anniversary Sgt Pepper remastered release. Let it be.
“What if they had stayed together?” Much less klunky than “What if they would have stayed together?”
Even on the beatles anthology Ringo himself states that they were aware it was that last album... so did he misremember? Or maybe there were talks then John Lennon decided he wanted a “divorce.” His drug use had a lot to do with it too.
Supressed painfull memories I guess. Anthology is pretty much regarded as a whitewash, at least the episodes covering the last two years. Lots of good footages though but no real revelations at all. John was quite unstable in this periods so it is not that shocking if he wanted a new album one day and "divorce" the other.
I think you should re-watch the Anthology. Ringo states that there was always the *possibility* of continuing, saying something along the lines of: We didn't sit down and say this is the last track, the last take...etc.
If anything, the conversations on that mystery tape seem to have been the icing on the cake for the break up. I've heard those points before regarding "more George songs" on albums, and ending the Lennon-McCartney writing credits. These seem like nails in the coffin. They never agreed on any of that, so why would you conclude there would be more albums? These were all contributing reasons to the break up.
I have also seen interviews with George Martin saying he thought John and Paul were unfair to george also. That he should have had more songs on albums . My Guitar gently weeps is a great george song.
Everyone, I am not sure what the fuss is about. We all got our "What If" and it was Klaatu. Sorry, I had to say it. bad joke, I know....LOL
Good one! 😄
Yes, it's a matter of taste. Appart from the Abbey Road long track, in my own top ten songs, I've got 5 Lennon's songs, 2 Harrisson's and 3 McCartney's.
Paul said: "No" and that was the end.
@Dave Brewer: they in fact did a farewell tour...in 1966!
A farewell tour to stop touring, not recording. Can't blame them they sounded bad because they couldn't hear themselves. Today that would be no problem.
I always assumed the breakup of the Beatles was a result of John and Paul losing control over their publishing. In fact I think it was the day after that happened that John told the group he was leaving?
The beatles thinking this was their last album is a myth. Even the beatles themselves said "it was just another album"...
Maybe the tape will be made public, maybe not. If the source is Mark Lewisohn, I don't think it should be doubted. Would change our outlook of him and his books if he lied.
Or if he - the worlds leading Beatles expert - has been trolled by a Stevie Riks parody.
Okay, so where is the tape then? I think it would be much more believable if it was heard. I said "What if" all through the 70's like the rest of the world. Then John Lennon was killed and the game was over.
Yes, I agree. If such a tape really exists, why just talk about it? Maybe this Lewinshon is afraid he'll get sued by Paul and Ringo? It's fun to consider, but until we actually "HEAR" something, it all hearsay IMO.
What if The Beatles recorded another album (either after Abbey Road or in the late 70’s/early 80’s) and it wasn’t very good? They got out at the perfect time with their reputation and legacy intact. A poor album may have damaged that.