Is Easter Historical?
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2020
- Christians have commemorated Easter for almost 2,000 years, but is the story actual history?
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All serious scholars agree that there was a historical Jesus who was executed by the Romans in the early 1st century AD. The canonical gospels give a detailed account of Jesus’ final week, from his triumphal entry into Jerusalem to overturning the money-changer’s tables, his celebration of the last supper, his betrayal by Judas, his trial, and his crucifixion. But how much of these accounts are historical? What if there were evidence that most of the story is myth?
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I just really enjoy your presentations. Educational and edifying! If I were allowed back in Canada, I know which church I'd be going to! Thanks so much!
you ditch out on a large bar tab?
John, I absolutely adore all of the stuff you and your colleagues do. I'm an atheist, but your stuff is so open and honest from my sceptical perspective I'm seriously impressed.
I don't know if you welcome atheists into your community, and I live in England not Canada, but I do feel I sulport your Centre Pade community in spirit at least.
Thanks for tye education :)
He welcomes anyone. Atheist or not, people still need something spiritual to follow otherwise all that's left is the materialism of most atheists. I think it's good your here trying to find your spiritual self.
Your spirit self knows its good!
Why doyou suppose yourself to be an " atheist" ?
Hi Bro John, Am back . As I wrote you before, am a muslim from Indonesia, but I always enjoy the way you laying every subject down for RUclips people. Especially the power of your graphic you were designed is very different. Its an erichment presentation ! May Allah send you more guidance for your life. Ameen Yaa Kareem Yaa Kareem ......🙏🤲🤲🙏
May Allah send you the Truth. Jesus was crucified. You believe Jesus escaped crucifixion and the Romans crucified someone else mistake. Nonsense. Jesus was crucified.
@@70AD-user45 Centre Place is about openness, acceptance, community, and critical thinking. You may be on the wrong RUclips channel
@@cae02
Is Centre Place really about all those things. Well the Muslim doctrine is that Jesus ascended to heaven without being crucified and the Romans crucified someone else by mistake. The Romans were professional killers, so that's not a doctrine of critical thinking. The pastor (long haired hippy) has also made some basic mistakes about St.Paul's and the biblical doctrine on the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection of the dead never happened the way your hippy pastor explained it.
@@70AD-user45hippy just because he has long hair..how lame…hairstyle should dictate anything but personal style, what inside regards to spirit is completely different. Guess you need heard about the saying about beauty in the inside?
I love these lectures. But what the heck is Centre Place? It looks like a Canadian spaceship of some kind. Are you in low orbit and how can I join you guys?
Came across you very recently, really enjoying these lectures. Thanks
Super amazing. Thank you for your lectures like this! ❤ ❤ :-)
Very well presented and important events. Congratulations.
I am really learning valuable soul cleansing information...very enlighting
What a fantastic episode. Deserves more views.
Growing up LDS, 3 years of seminary in high scholl, major brainwashing. In liberal Southern California, late-60s,we were psychedelic Mormons. I blessed the sacrament high and felt reverence. 5 years in federal prison gave plenty of time to dive in to all theologies, very cosmopolitan. You haven't mentioned Steven Fry, Douglas Adams, brilliant modern day philosophers. I like your pop culture approach to ancient literature and history. I would enjoy a discussion between you and Richard Carrier. Americans are Americans and we have a very wide-ranging point of view. You are actually creating a new religion I've never heard of you guys. So far so good.
“Americans are Americans and have wide ranging views” thats ALL nations 🤡
Mormonism is a cult, and like most cults they are American creations.
Steven Fry the actor?
@@eriklucasmusic steven fry the actor is quite the philosopher
Carrier is still too hyper and he's like 45
Great lecture as usual!
I think many scholars believe that there was an earlier passion narrative gospel (perhaps oral) that was used differently in Mark and John.
Joseph Campbell helped to teach me that Historical truth and Mythological truth should not be confused with each other, and that Mythology has universal truths that go beyond simple truth!
I will believe when archaeologists discover first century Easter eggs
History of Jesus/ Story of Jesus
30:16 timeline / what happened when / what was written when
32:37 “The Poor of Jerusalem” / “Jesus People: the congregation of the unclean” before the destruction of the (2nd) Temple 70 AD: The teachings are the important stuff, let’s reform Judaism: You gotta include the ritually unclean and the poor, you rich bastards: change your ways, we told you thrice, but you wouldn’t listen; see what happened?
41:06 Q on the Passion: take your cross and follow me; Prophets are always Martyrs, as they never get listened to... - you heard it all before, but the “Son of Man” will put an end to it, when he returns! Just you wait!
56:14 Paul on Christ: death and resurrection happened “according to the scriptures”; the guy himself is the message; this time it’s different: he already returned (from the dead); history already changed for the better. If you believe it - that’s all it takes. This, and living it, like he lived it.
((That’s the nature of “the word” / “the spirit” / ideas and ideals (and memes) in general: as long as you remember them, they live on and have the potential to change the world; probably already did change the world, if they were lived in actuality.))
1:07:53 the Passion account is largely the creation of Mark (... so that the events fit scripture)
1:08:49 Mark echoes and fills in Paul / The Lord’s Supper gets to become The Last Supper (rather than the other way round)
1:12:11 Mark uses scripture / the Hebrew Bible to fill in / fit in details about what should probably / must have happened to Jesus during his last week.
1:16:47 What does it matter? Not much to the believer.
1:19:45 Q&A: no historical record of a trial (is left / is even expected to be left), but a “trial of the innocent sufferer” is a thing / blueprint / philosophical/ theological Gedankenexperiment. - While historical rebels against Rome more likely would just have been killed outright without a trial / public philosophical musings
P.S.: I love how he calls himself a mapmaker! He’s really good at making maps through the terrains of history and philosophy and religion. Easy to follow, fun to follow even! I keep returning to his talks and presentations.
This is my favorite. I am coming to Toronto. Hope I can come to your live lecture soon.
How'd it go? Did you see one of John's lectures live?
@@miyojewoltsnasonth2159 ugh I still haven't made it up. One day soon I hope!
Yes… no bombardment of questions
Mark has some hints of an eye witness, such as the moment when Simon of Cyrene, forced to carry the cross for a while, is casually introduced as "the father of Alexander and Rufus".
Great 👍
Q has chapter and verse numbers now?
Elsewhere I learned that the chapter and verse numbers used for Q are those in Luke.
@@FrancisCWolfe I think the chapter and verse are from Matthew rather than Luke but I may be mistaken. I think it is reasonable to assume that Q is basically an early form of Matthew i.e. that Matthew started out as a sayings gospel (pace Thomas) and evolved into its later form. The idea is that Q didn't "survive" because it became Matthew. So, Luke had Mark and Q (a sayings proto-Matthew). Matthew was constructed out of Q (with the help of a copy of Mark?).
Skip to 6:00
Play @ X1.25
I love the dialogues of Play-doh!
Plat-Toe
10:04 As an active pagan in the US. Trying to get us to agree on anything is like herding cats.
Most people I know that practice reconstructed Hellenistic practices don't mind you calling the stories myths for the most part.
I have the same stance, Hellenic, Norse, Celt or Christian. As a Polytheist I recognise all mythologies as a sacred narrative.
Once you decide that the conceit has greater weight than "historical fact" you've cut yourself free from truth and can be blown anywhere. Which is fine, but you never know where you will end up.
John, you are an inspiration. You are so well-informed and totally lacking in bigotry. And you come across as both learned and kindly. I wish you were my pastor. Your lectures reassure me that it is possible to have an intelligent faith, rather than a narrow-minded biblicist literalism.
There were 2 apostles named James.
Jude was the brother of James.
Inot the James who was The leader of the Jerusalem Church. Who was the brother of the Lord
James the Less, James the Greater, James the brother of Jesus all DIFFERENT
Equivocation aside, I enjoy your lectures.
Jesus answers the why of His baptism so how can there be a question as to why?....
Matthew 3:15 KJV
[15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
i'd really like this channel to engage with richard carrier's work.
This channel slaps
What??
I have read
but my google-fu is not helping me find it again
that there was an historical difference in the calendar btwn Jerusalem and Galilee,
thus making it correct that they held their Galilee-Saturday sabbath meal on Jerusalem-Thursday
They used the same 7-day week. The difference is that Jews used a lunar-solar calendar which has a different number of days each year.
Mind stories
Tung and check
He has a Church where he debunks all Religion? His Church is designed to get its members to not believe in anything religious. Brilliant concept.
Truth and historicity are different. It is the spiritual meaning that is the important thing in religion.
The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD WAS the spiritual return of Jesus. It's consistent with the Hebraic mindset that God uses nations to pass judgement on other nations. Matthew 26,64, is saying, Jesus will return "on the clouds of heaven". This is Hebraic apocalyptic language meaning to come spiritually in judgement against apostate Jerusalem. Fulfilled in 70 AD.
If the author of mark was not a native Greek speaker I wonder why he/ she would use a Greek translation of the Hebrew scripture.
This. Mark mastered his Greek so much so, that he could wield it in the style of his intended target audience.
He was the GOAT among the evangelists.
Er, no...
Easter is all pegan worship , Jesus celebrated The Jewish pass over, that is the Easter i would rather celebrate even though i am not Jewish.
So is Christmas 🇨🇦
@@deborahhebblethwaite1865 yep
There is a passover in the New Testament, so you don't have to be Jewish. The Old Covenant was only for the Hebrews. The New Covenant went to all nations. Pascha (passover) is correctly used by eastern Christianity. Easter is only used in the west.
If a tree fell in the forest - did a tree fall in the forest?
- yes.
What if it didn't?
- no.
Really? It IS a forest.
- ye..[?] .. mmmn!
Which is true - 'a tree fell in the forest?'' a tree didn't fall in the forest?'
- bo' ..I'm not talking to you anymore!
Fair enough.
That truth is so difficult to 'pin down' means that in any 'normal' conversation we have to 'suspend' our disbelief and take so much 'in good faith' in order to get to the conclusion being presented. If we move to respond but are cut short with something like 'Way wait, n no wait, I haven't finished..." we either give tacit agreement to the first part by once more suspending any doubts (especially if this person is also a dissembler or fast talker who has no sense or care for the natural cadences of a two way exchange - I'm thinking Jordan Peterson) and be taken down a rabbit hole to maybe arriving at a pleasing destination. So it is then, that we can be persuaded and yet never do due diligence to the 'truth claims' that persuade us.
This is just one among dozens of ways that truth can be 'framed' and/or be made unproblematic and easy to digest or accept. But it seems to me that if ANY God exists who has any sympathy for our varying levels of truth knowing then our interactions with him would be vastly different. So I am not surprised at all that 'faith' is such a huge component in the persuasive techniques of religious coversions or indoctrinations. Faith in God is one thing but it is only arrived at after exercising faith in the story/stories and the many storytellers and lesser actors who nevertheless point, refer to, and reflect those many 'events' (and the truths assigned to them) that are taken 'on faith' while our 'suspension of disbelief' is otherwise disabled.
I hate when people equivocate the word truth like the pastor here. You're using it like truth means the moral of the story or something.
That is exactly how people told stories 2000 years ago. Truth back then was a story was not not factually based told to attest to the character of the person. Parables are such stories. They are not necessarily based in fact. We do not call this truth in these modern times🇨🇦
What about the gospel of John? Some scholars claim it's a forgery, filled with antisemitism and a pretensious superiority of the author as the favorite disciple.
none of the gospels name themselves. The authors of ALL of them are unknown
There is a line in John that specifically says the writer was NOT the Beloved Disciple, but that he wrote the gospel based on the recollections of the Beloved Disciple. There's another line that implies the Beloved Disciple was already dead when the gospel was being written.
Oh the poor kinderlander Elsies they really do suppose that there is Magic in words, or certainly more magic than the words themselves will bear.
Historical meely meaning ans*No_more* than merely meaning having to do with a story about the past or pre_Now.
The dead *Remain* dead, and it is poor lie that flies in the face of experience and common sense, so the resurrection lie was a verly silly lie to invent
Wish you’d stop with the woke stuff. You’re smarter than that!
Historicity isn't a real word. Not even in my spell check.
Is this a joke of some kind?