The Free Cycling Speed That NOBODY Is Talking About | GCN Show Ep. 590
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- This might be the most boring-sounding cycling topic we've ever covered, but it's really NOT, and ...it's super important! That's right - today, we're talking about efficiency and what you can do to make yourself more efficient!
Plus, Dan & Si cover all the latest cycling news from this past week, discuss the very welcome recovery of many pro-cyclists from their recent injuries, the state of the bike industry, discuss your comments on last week's videos, and much more!
Welcome! 0:00
The latest in cycling news 1:00
Is 'efficiency' cycling's most boring topic? 2:46
What can you do to make yourself more efficient? 5:45
Cycling Shorts 12:34
Grease remover: Shampoo? 12:57
Pros recovering well from their injuries 13:37
Gravel routes in the 100-mile wilderness in Maine 14:31
State of the bike industry 15:23
New time trial bike from Giant 16:23
Cycling duvet covers?? 17:14
Check out our new T-shirts, bottles, and Limited Edition jerseys! 18:11
Hack/Bodge of the week 20:47
Comments of the week 28:06
Coming up this week 34:03
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Efficiency ...boring, or food for thought? 😴
Let us know in the comments! 💬
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Спорт
Do you worry about your cycling efficiency? ♻
About " efficientcy", never.
Yes. Every ride. Because I’m not the strongest rider… or on the fastest bike… or necessarily using the optimal tire for conditions.
I’m always looking for whatever free and unfair advantage available.
I find that I'm most efficient when I'm not cycling at all.......😏
No. I aim for consistency-- inefficient at work, marriage, parenting and cycling.
Ofcourse. I been trying to 3d model some aero fairings for my bike so it would be more efficient. 😀
When you are as out of shape as I am, you start thinking about efficiency just walking to your bike.
Together we can do it! 🤗
And aerodynamics is out of the question. I am with you mate!
I will have you know ,I am in shape........of a pear,and pears are aero.@@michaellynch1132
Maybe one aspect of cycling efficiency is off the bike, namely, diet. A good, healthy diet will help you recover quicker and improve overall performance.
Very true! You don't put poor quality petrol in an F1 car!
I go for lots of cola ---- Coke / Pepsi / RC and such
Yes, efficiency! I love taking the small hills like Dan did - well done Dan. Not pedalling downhill only makes sense. Your effort is wasted until you get to the point above which gravity itself gets you going. Much better to take the free recovery time. More Mark Beaumont, please. And yes, I am an engineer who cycles. Ollie never bores me either.
Ollie never bores you! Please tell us your tricks 😉 Are you doing big distances?
@@gcn I just did the math. If I didn't miscalculate, you need to reach 637km/h on the bottom of Mount Ventoux, IFF you neglect wind resistance and rolling resistance (and possible cornering speed).
@@gcn After he makes a point, tell him he is perspicacious then move on quickly. As Ollie says, what is long? I do like to ride around 30 miles on average and have done a century.
Waxed chain + TPU tubes + GP 5000 + aero tuck = Go fast!
Certainly it seems like volume and consistency over months and years is a sure fire thing - ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike.
We couldn't think of a better way to spend our time 🙌
Talking about second laps: Ask Cillian about how cruel it was to be back in Oudenaarde at the feed station but still having to head out again with the Koppenberg, the Taaienberg, the Kwaramont and the Paterberg still to come and all in the rain.
Caption contest: "I'm Alpecin's teapot short and stout, here is my handle, here is my spout. Like all soigneurs hear me shout: this bottle's sticky, hold your hand out!" Go ahead and find a technicality in that, pedants.
Anxiety equals inefficiency. Which was indirectly covered; 'calm'.
Boxers are trained the same way...stay loose, relaxed, focused...and you will be faster, more agile, become less tired. It really works for all sports
@@user-gs3tq6bx2u ...and for life.
I’m all about efficiency. I ride with lots of fast local riders, and many of them are a fair bit stronger than me in terms of pure w/kg etc. On paper I should get dropped on a hard chain gang by these guys, but I don’t, I’m almost always one of the few remaining at the end - and yes I do do my fair share of pulls on the front!
I really think my biggest strength is being efficient - whether that’s with kit choice, body position, drafting, positioning, cornering, carrying momentum in the right place etc. Rather than trying to outpace people I try to use less energy than they are to travel at the same speed. It doesn’t go unnoticed by other riders either
That's really cool! Sounds like you've learnt some great rising skills and maybe even a bit of race craft 🙌 How did you learn your tricks?
Just practice I guess, I do race and ride with groups quite a lot. Also quite a bit of it comes down to instinct/feel I suspect, probably some people are more sensitive to finding efficient ways of riding than others
It's only my 3rd year as a cyclist (I'm 44) and I just learned to pace myself during longer rides using my heart rate monitor. Staying under a given BPM number helps me to stay disciplined and not to go all-out in the first climbs. This way, I can make it to the end of the ride with a smile on my face instead of struggling for the last 15-20 kilometers. Also, as rides will go by, I'll get to know myself better based on real data, so I'll know when and how to push more or hold back.
The physics are fairly simple. Absent drafting, the work you do to cover a fixed distance on the flat is proportional to the square of the speed. If you only have so many calories in the tank you will run out of gas before the end if you go too fast. However, on a steep climb at a speed where aerodynamic drag is negligible, the work required to climb 1000 metres is the same however fast you ride it. It will take the same amount of calories to ride in 30 minutes as it would in 60 minutes. Hence you will not drain your tank by riding faster up a hill. Of course if you go up too fast you will kill your legs, and have a soaring heartrate, but the number of calories burned to the top is pretty much the same. What this means is that over a long ride the most efficient place to burn your matches is on climbs, not on the flat.
Spot on about the aerodynamics. However, I suspect our muscles are more efficient (energy output per calorie burned) at lower power output.
Efficienzzzz
Guy Smith, you didn't describe efficiency.
Caption Comp:
I'm a little teapot,
Short and stout,
Here is my handle
Here is my spout
So, in my case an accident can lead to loads of more efficiency: a crushed vertebrea left me unable to cycle on my racing bike. Missed it sorely, until I remembered there are recumbent bikes that you can lie down on. And a fast version of such, with an aero tail, makes me cycle at average speeds above 30 kph consistently, just 3 Month of being bedridden for 2 Month.
I am now preparing for an hour time trial in June, want to hit 40 km 😊
Thank you for adjusting the highlights at the start. Dan's lead-in and the sound fx between snippets makes it much clearer.
Caption Contest: "watch out for this new yoga instructor. He can be a bit of a loose 'Canyon' in front of a camera"
Smooth is fast and fast is smooth...
be efficient with your movement
Is this something that you've worked on?
I´ve found an even more efficient technique which is even smoother: not moving at all.
Caption Comp:
With team radios not working, Aplecin has to resort to semaphore to the communicated to the riders
Coast up to traffic lights.
My buddy, who normally rides behind me, hates that, as he is the one that the approaching cars reach before they slow down.
I love getting to the front of the traffic queue just as the lights change.
My buddy prefers to stop and catch his breath.
An aero tuck and free wheeling down a hill are much more efficient than pedaling. Assuming not racing, but for the most efficiency, yes?
what about an aero tuck and pedalling? That would be pretty efficient too? 🤔
@@gcn I guess it depends what you want - if the efficiency is to save energy, then not pedalling is better!
@@gcn Certainly the aero tuck will make it more efficient, but as others have pointed out, air resistance grows proportional to the _square_ of the speed. If you want to be efficient (minimize the total energy required to get to the goal), definitely don't pedal downhill. (If you want to win a race, it's more complicated.)
@@gcn Mark Beaumont says no, just stay aero...
Max efficiency is spin up hills, put it in the 54x11 on the downs and crank.
I like thinking about bunch efficiency as a good mental stimulation during long rides. Thinking about position in the bunch, where to put myself due to the wind, when to change gears, how to approach corners or short climbs so as to not have to accelerate hard. It all just makes several hours much more interesting than it would be solo. It even helps when knowing where to position slightly weaker riders to make the whole group work better.
Some MTB stems have a hole in it for cable routing. So if that is an old school MTB stem that could have been there already for traditional MTB caliper brakes. However, putting drop brake levers on a riser MTB bar with the bar forward and not upward is totally a BODGE!!!!
Yes the drop bar brake levers will probably bottom out on a flat bar. They were far too kind to that bike, 100% bodge!
I’m shaped like Chris Froome but minus all the fitness and talent, so I have to think about efficiency. I’m nearly always “the weakest link” in my group rides so I have to draft smartly and think about wind direction to conserve energy as much as possible so I can hold my turn at the front before returning to drafting and recovering and questioning my life choices
Sounds like you've built up some great race and riding skills! 👌
Efficiency thoughts: as it’s spring here in 🇨🇭 and we’re getting back at it, a friend of mine and I decided to ride the same route 7 days in a row to get our legs back. Nice 25k ride with about 450 meters of climbing. Anyway, on day 3 I decided to focus on my tuck during the descents and not push so hard; boom, PR. But I do agree with the push at the bottom of a descent or flat leading into a small climb. Absolutely works well. And on the 77k ride a few of us did today (998 meters of climbing) I desperately held the wheel of one of the better riders on the flats to regain some energy. Happy to mooch off his efforts!
I once read in an RV magazine that drivers could save fuel by gradually easing a bit off the gas while driving uphill, then easing back down on the gas on downhills. The infernal [sic] combustion powered vehicle thus goes slower when gravity works against it and faster when gravity works with it. I wonder if it works for human engines.
This!
Caption Comp:
Let's leave the door open to vent the smell, now, point out who farted in the car without letting the gassy fella knowing...
Regarding what you mentioned on riding efficiency makes a ton of sense and I proved that for myself this past weekend when I rode in the Texas MS150 here in the US, which was 158 miles (254 km) in 2 days, through lots of hills. Speeding down hill never lead to riding faster up hill, because I was gassed pretty much every time. However, starting pedaling early at the bottom of a short’ish climb, definitely makes my speed up the hill much faster. I’m glad you talked about overall efficiency riding, because I haven’t seen it anywhere on other channels, but have heard it only from my local group riders.
Both of the captions you mentioned for last week should have won a bottle. For this week, “I’m a little tea pot…” 🎼🤣
#CaptionCompetition This Alpecin Deceuninck mechanic used to be addicted to the Hoky Poky, but he turned himself around. And that's what it's all about!
One leg workouts up gradual climbs is a big key to efficiency. It enabled me to make the podium in a 30+ crit series in Austin when I was 50.
Interesting! What was it about the one leg efforts that you think helped you?
@@gcn The day after you try one leg workouts you will have sore muscles you never knew you weren't using. When those muscles are fit your sprint muscles can be saved for big efforts.
Bloody love this programme it’s the highlight of my cycling week laughing out loud watching the banter 😂 keep up the fantastic work 👏
Efficiency is drafting a farming combine vehicle heading into a fairly brisk headwind.
Hahahaha that's every ride in the Uk 🚜
Caption comptition: "Do you think Mathieu can beat Tadej at Liege?" "No chance mate, maybe the podium at a stretch!"
So cool that my home state of Maine made Cycling Shorts for something positive. It doesn’t help me much because I’m a road guy, but it is awesome to see.
Could you show the ride efficiency in some presenter rides? Maybe putting in the hints from this video, eg. freewheeling, lower power output etc? The main focus could be is there a sweet spot for best efficiency/speed, and how does that relate to endurance? Awesome show again!
Great suggestion! Let's see what we can do 👍
I have a lot of fun riding the steep rolling hills here in Michigan, USA. I always pedal downhill running through the gears until my speed overcomes the gears. It takes 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the next climb , during which I'm running my gears down. Up the gearing starts to go at the summit, then repeat! Lots of fun, efficient, and comments about my climbing!
Glad I wasn't at the coffee machine when this conversation took place! 😂
🤣
29:28 it's all in the delivery!
I don’t have a bike computer. Do they calculate efficiency? E.g., watts per kph?
With a power meter you get the data. You would need air speed meter too if you want to remove wind as variance.
1:25 those time trial helmets are ridiculous!
Race/ride craft, love it. Once you know the tricks of the trade, it all makes sense and gets easier!
As for that valve extender, the ultimate in finding a solution to a problem that could end in a problem again! I LOVE IT
Maybe concise advise for training efficiency (a better word is learning) would be: Pick a route you ride regularly, one that isn't flat and ideally goes multiple directions so the wind relative to you changes. Ride the same average power trying different reasonable ways of applying the power. Try tips provided. See which gives the highest average speed. Consider perceived exertion. Test on different routes. Learn to become more efficient.
What I find is talking to fellow cyclists and getting advice on pedaling techniques is surprisingly few mention _pulling up the pedal on the upstroke_ - I only seem to do this going up steep climbs but now have incorporated the technique on the flats - it really feels like my efficiency has much improved even if the upward pull is slight.
I personally think this is a no brainer as each leg is working 95% of the time instead of 50%.
Now using resistance bands for leg pulling exercises i'm sure increases leg strength in the 'negative' direction.
Hope this is new thinking and not everyone was doing this anyway 😆
And the bottom of the pedal stroke should be like scraping mud off the bottom of a boot! 👍😂
@@gcn Yes I heard the _wiping of the feet_ at the bottom of the downstroke but never actively _pulling up_ the pedal.
Competition comment:
"I knew I shouldn't have drank the venti on such a long car ride. It feels like I have to pee from my belly up past my head. How do you do it?"
"Easy, I just squeeze it with both my hands."
Gaffer tape: duct tape or Wisconsin chrome.
I found the efficiency conversation interesting. I’ve always equated efficiency with energy conservation. I definitely free wheel down descents and power up short climbs. If I get bogged down, I struggle
Love the efficiency part, like speeding into a shortish climb , always tried this and it is so much easier …. Free wheeling downhill , mm will need to see what this can help with … thanks for bringing this up….
Train sitting up to force you to work harder, have medium low tire pressure , stay clear of drafting , brake for cars at intersections , ride in the grass for added difficulty ,
I'd be interested in the efficiency thoughts of old pro's - before all the tech started - to see if many happened across efficiency by experiment / feel.
Not peddling on a downhill? The advice I’ve been given by many people is never stop peddling, potentially to stop lactate building up?. Which is better?
this sounds like something for GCN Does Science!
yes thats what also pros do
If you're riding an 18000 mile race like Mark Beaumont did, the milliseconds you gain from pedaling downhill are not as important as having enough energy to cycle for 78 consecutive days.
on a long (20+ miute) descent you occasionally pedal to prevent your muscles from tightening. Lactate is not a concern from muscles that are not being taxed.
I’m riding the Ragbrai post stroke so I’m very interest in how to minimize effort. Also it’s amazing how much gas I save being aware of braking , how to only brake when necessary.
The Rene Herse stem has a hole in the middle for the front brake cable.
25:28 I've seen thumb shifters before but here I see thumb brake levers.
I think we need a video testing that hack/bodge saddle...
I think its great Dan is getting back to fitness. You guys are still pretty young and able to make power and recover. It would be great to see something on cyclists 50-75+ and maintaining fitness as well as building fitness and making gains for people that were not elite back in the day. Many take up road cycling at an older age (myself) for fitness, racing and helping fitness in other sports. Forest Velo here on RUclips has a good channel for the basics and is a great example of an older extremely fit rider. Love the show keep up the great work!
I've found that efficiency is largely positional, as Si mentions around the 11-minute mark. I ride exclusively indoors on a Zwift-based trainer. The power goes up by about 10 watts if I get into the drops from the hoods. All else constant, my leg power increases simply by being more weight-centered over the cranks. The momentum into the short humps is a great tip, for sure.
If you want to know if going into the drops gives you more efficiency you would need to measuring your oxygen consumption while you do this experiment. Heart rate might be a reasonable proxy as well. Most likely it is just psychological, you go into the "Attack" position and are more motivated to push hard. I feel this same perception when I drop into aerobars, because I love aerobars. But I know from experiment I"m not getting free power.
@@JackMott this is a very interesting topic, it could be that you are engaging different muscles temporarily that allow a bigger power output. Either way, great to see conversation around it! 👍
@@gcn @JackMott even if X only provides purely placebo effect, if the rider feels it, X can yield gains.
Regardless - out on the road, in the drops is generally far more aerodynamically efficient than tops. It is never bad to spend quality time training in the more slippery position!
Best part of the show... no more microphones!
Personally, we liked the caption comp this week 😉
How is better audio quality so offending?
@@piripiro If I were watching Luciano Pavarotti sing about cycling efficiency with the audio piped through a Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure system, then the audio quality may be something to consider. But the distraction of the mics on what amounts to a video podcast (I love the show GCN) is unnecessary. I am not offended.
@@piripiroi would be okay with the mics if they'd just fixed the background hiss issue they had. It was so distracting.
🥱
A frame that planes increases your efficiency compared to a frame that doesn't plane for you. That's what Jan Heine is talking about since many years. That's his incredible finding. It's not necessarily or barely about comfort. It's about encouraging and allowing the legs to work harder but not fatigue more - because you're in sync with your bike.
Should we get Jan on the show? See if he can convert us to the supple life 😉
caption comp: Looks like the Alpesin team's stretching routine has hit a snag! Here we have the driver channeling his inner flamingo with a one-armed overhead stretch while his teammate contemplates whether to join in or call for backup. Talk about 'reaching' for that podium finish!
Just turned the dial on 40. The last two seasons have been all about efficiency. Mostly, staying calm. Good topic.
Also, Maine! Great you guys picked this up. MILES of gravel, gorgeous country. Go!
I had a stinking stroke so managing my effort became essential to keep riding.
Perfect timing! Just got home
Just for you this one John!
What about MdVP as the model for efficiency in the pro peloton. He always seems completely relaxed, often near the back before he launches his blistering winning attack. (Mind you, it didn’t seem to work for him in L-B-L… getting caught behind a crash and all).
OMG I love Hacker Bodge. Luv those handlebars
21:25 correct me if I'm wrong but this style of saddle is meant to remove pressure away from the male sensitive part (you know what). Some say riding long term on a traditional saddle could affect fertility etc.
Sounds like b*llocks to me 😂
I agree with you about riding hard on climbs, but not about waring wind. God, I hate headwinds. I just ficus on keeping a high cadence until I've reach my route apex. Rhen j give it my all riding with the wind, attacking the hills and free wheeling on descents.
Caption competition: The last team car was a Mini Cooper and the effects linger.
Top tip for more speed with less effort: heading out with a nice tailwind and hoping for the wind direction to change. Bonus tip: have some money with you for a train ticket, if it doesn't happen.
I rode the same route everyday (up and down a mountain road)....knowing every single bump, rise, hole, curve, line really makes you faster.
Did you get really quick on the climb?
@@gcn I'm 66 but I still get the greatest pleasure uphill passing a weekend lycrist one third of my age riding a bike that is 3 times lighter than mine lol
I still ride up there everyday (when it's not raining) and have good days and tough days. It's 90% stand up, handle bar clenching, loud breathing, sweat in your eyes grinding uphill in the sub-tropics.
My main focus is having a sweat not beating my fastest time but I blast up and down there as fast as I can most days.. I do it under an hour every time. If I'm passed I try and latch onto their wheel for as long as I can.
I never realized this 'til I got to this age but when you get older, you are still the same person who basically thinks the same way ( I just look older lol)..sure, you mellow but I still get a big kick giving it my all, especially when going downhill like a maniac...there's nothing better than getting the speed, the line, the tuck and momentum perfect, it's like riding a wave.
Keep up the good work GCN...I learn something new every episode, big thanks!
Do you still have the rim brake death timer running? Surprised that hasn’t come back yet.
Top work from Stefan this week: Cat Herder to the show! 😂
GCN's very own content shepherd 🐑
that butt-speaker saddle thingy: definitely a hodge.
Caption competition: Safety dance! (Men without hats video) go to 1:20 !!!! was a very big thing for us in Canada!!!
I have a friend who is blind and wants me to go cycling with her, which got me thinking. How about more inclusive videos with people with disabilities. It would be interesting to see how we act with them while cycling and the types of bikes that can be used to ride with them. Would love to know more about this topic.
It’s great to see Dan’s sense of humor has returned with a vengeance. I’ve missed that so much.
It never left 😈
Caption competition:
Alpecin team driver testing begins with the daunting head pat/tummy rub drill.
I'm non-competitive cyclist riding FG just for fun. Last summer I started to do few hour rides on flat to rolling hills terrain in strong headwind and during winter discovered my swimming has improved - I can maintain effort and do laps just like pedaling in headwind. I haven't analyzed if there's any connection but enjoy rides and swimming more than before.
To us it sounds like you are getting fitter and stronger! We love that 🙌
Riding efficiency is a smart tool and I have used it to great effect in 10 mile TTs this year. Knowing when to put the power down and where to conserve energy has allowed me to break the 25 minute barrier for the first time. For someone extremely time crunched and only started riding 6 years ago and racing in the last 3, riding smart is a must!
TT are always won by those that know how to pace 👌
That first saddle that looks like two oven burners, reminds me of nutcracker by the fire.
Hold on - that;s killed the Wattbike pedal stroke efficiency. That’s okay, we can all just use MyWhoosh, or Zwift if you are minted and mash away. A top video and thanks chaps.
My day started with Zwift and ended with you two (the bit in the middle was pretty rubbish) thanks for making me smile 😊
Glad we could help! Are you part of the GCN club? 👀
Of course!
You can stop to fully "cross chain" to be more efficient (talking about the guy in the riding sequences @6:57 🙂). It's probably ok if your chain is waxed 🤣.
I do very much so, since I am quite new to the sport and old. And fat. Every bit counts.
I started around 2 years ago, dropped more than 30kg and now slowly getting fit. I did a 40km ride every week for the last year and a half and now it is time to notch things up a little bit.
I am starting to do half of my commute on bike, 20km one way, 180m of elevation. That is after a day of manual labour (joiner) plenty of exercise. And I want to do it on most days (I hate rain), on a Merida Speeder 200, fitted with mud guards and a rack.
Thats an incredible achievement! Keep going! 👍
I missed last weeks caption but I would have submitted... 'accio jacket'!
Better late than never 🧙
Big riders and small riders with the same VO2 sees the smaller rider on the limit at the same speed on the flat. Vis a versa on climbs - is that due in part due to some sort of physiological efficiency?
Caption: With that kind of shape, it's no wonder that Deceuninck lost its Quick Step.
Caption competition
A young Hugh Grant and his hearse posing for the film that made him a a star - ‘four bikes at a funeral’
Interesting to hear u say about the average speed as i have been trying to ignore it as there are so many variables. But thinking about it now I can see a trend. This time last year I dreamed of a 30km/h average now it’s normal. I think it’s just down to the volume of riding I do.
Ride ride ride! It's the best way to get better 🙌
Caption contest
"Alpiss off mate! You rub n tap" it's harder than it looks
you two make your work very interesting. great stuff.
Most of my rides are zone 2 rides, so it's hard to know how I'm doing in terms of efficiency. I can say that in a couple of months my zone 2 has gone from around 25kmh for 110-150watts to 27kmh. So I'm going to assume that whilst my power output is in the same range, pure speed-wise, I'm a bit faster than I was 6 weeks ago - cycling efficiency improved?
The scary handlebar bodge: is the intention to use your thumbs to brake?
Efficiency, is minimising waste.
Most of the energy waste for a cyclist is WindChill.
I was training the other day and my plan was insistent on doing low wattages which I found frustrating at first, then I decided to see how fast I could go by sticking to the low power but hunkering down and trying to create the least amount of drag.
I hate to admit it but the aero weenies were right, I was able to put out pretty decent speeds whilst putting out not much power (this was on a mostly flat surface though)
It's why the pros try and become as slippery as possible, beat the wind with as little effort as possible! Good bit of experimenting you've been doing! 👍
Not sure I'd fancy doing a TT on that road in the intro...! In fact, don't think I'd like to do a TT on any road!!
Love the show. Could you guys make a video about racing techniques? For example, what is the advantage of having a teammate on a climb rather than your opponent’s team? 😊
We've got this video 👉 ruclips.net/video/ghVLx6ilERc/видео.html But we're always up for new ideas! Do you struggle to understand race tactics?
I've made the mistake many times in the past of being at the front of a small bunch on a descent coming up to shortish power climb after, and then have everyone behind, sail past and gap me using my draft by the top. Then have to waste lots of energy chasing back on.
We've all been there... someone's got to sit at the front 😉
@@gcn Haha, now as a older mamil as long as it's not me, I'm all for it!😅
It's called, "zoom the transitions". I'm big and I zoomed the transitions (cycling and XC skiing) for max overall efficiency.
Ah, so that's what it's called!
I am incredibly efficient when riding downhill with a tail wind behind a big truck.
Caption contest: “Sorry to bother you, but can any of us stop to use someone’s bathroom, or is that only available to van der Poel?”