Hello Derek .that is so cool all last week I was looking on the Internet to find the more information about expansion vessel and what exactly is their job on the line and as you said all those RUclips videos just mentioned g3 documet . you can't see all the information and there are tiny details so glad to know I should read the water regulations book .useful and honestly really helpful information from you . Big shot out like always, dude 🙏🙌
Lowering temperatures in heating and water systems starting to bring in more issues, it does make installing an unvented cylinder with an internal expansion system a lot more attractive.
As a retired heating engineer of 47 yrs and Plumbing and Heating lecturer for many years, I 100 % agree with your views. Generally, legionella on any 'closed' systems is low risk. However 'open' systems especially incorrectly installed f&e cisterns without inhibitor and shower heads that are only used infrequently are a risk and engineers should take care !
Haha, we should have shower heads with chrome garden hose attachments so anybody can take it off and drain it in an event of infrequent use. (Easy to replace, easy to clean, easy to prevent bacterial growth) On a serious note. How do you install the F&E cistern incorrectly?
Excluding cases acquired during travel and hospital legionare's is rare in the UK. About 220 cases per year with about 20 deaths. This is about 4 to 5 times the chance of being struck by lightning. Included in the 220 cases are those acquired at swimming pools, schools, work places etc. To put this in perspective 6000 people a year are killed in domestic accidents 700 from falling down stairs.
Falling down stairs is quite easy to diagnose. Legionella less so. You don't have to die from something for it to have a detrimental health effect. There is probably a lot more legionella around than people think. Any warm standing water is going to grow it.
Excellent video , fitted my first unvented cylinder in 89 when they were pretty much an upgraded foamed cylinder with all the additional bits bolted to it. Could never really get my head around why in the water regs book it showed an in and out on the vessel. Sure , i could see the thinking behind it, but never actually seen it out in the field.
Thanks Derek Thats got me thinking about the budget boiler that you worked on last, Long flexible hose on the expansion vessel,And the low water flow rate on the Hot 🤔
Haha, I like your helmet... I wonder how many plumbers/ heating engineers had legionnaires disease before. I don't know a signal one. Perhaps I wasn't long enough in the trade to know one.
How many instances of Legionella are there being found in central heating systems heated water supplies? Appreciate in theory it could occur but how often does it occur?
It is a bacteria which I believe is most dangerous when in steam - as it can infect your lungs through breathing it in - so steam showers/rooms probably the worst case.
I have what I think is called a heat store or bank - an open vented hot wayer cylinder fed by central heating circuit - with a plate heat exchanger to DHW So no stored pressurised hot water, no legionella, and no pressure vessle regs as hot water side is just vented. I can't understand why this isn't this more popular? Why are new systems all sealled systems with all that entails?
When did it change that the vessel had to bit fitted ridged and not on a flexi. Went to a job last night vessel fell off the wall. To heavy full of water
My thought entirely, isolate it, drain it, oh here's your coffee luv. Valve not reopened, bang! Or is it just me that's forgetful..... Getting old am guessing
Historically (i.e. 1990s) you were not supposed to. Kits came without them and installation instructions said you mustn't fit them (regardless of what the regs might have permitted).However, unventilated HW systems have pressure relief valves that vent into a tundish if the expansion vessel is U/S (as I suspect a significant proportion are). So shutting an isolation valve would still not be dangerous (though somewhat wasteful). On a heating system it may be more problematic.
Seems a bit strange that you shouldn't fit a service valve and drain off on heat only boilers that have external expansion vessels. I don't see the problem as long as the PRV isn't valved too.
Thats a bugger i prefer the book. Easy to keep on hand, plumbers working out in the sticks with no signal will struggle to check stuff and it was a reference text allowed in city and guilds exams. Dunno how students will be affected by this.
I agree when we got the email saying the guide is now on line I thought really how will that work in exams and guess what at the end of the email it said print off copy’s for the exams 🤔
@@tomkatgastraining sounds like a cost saving issue for water regs more than anything else. They could still publish the books with a caveat that the online material should be cross checked when possible as it may have been updated.
@@tomkatgastrainingall the heat pump training I’ve had they all say we’ve never had a legionella incident domestically when they go through the legionella cleansing cycle.
@@tomkatgastraining basically there trying to say that the legionella cycle of getting the hot water cylinder above 60 degrees a minimum of once a wk isn’t required. Not that I’m in agreement but the trainers say we’ve never had a legionella case in this country domestically.
@@jamesasprey2092 we will see if your trainer is correct in the coming years when heat pumps have been around longer. All the training material I have for heat pumps says you must have an anti legionella cycle on the cylinder being active at least once a week
The most dangerous thing about plumbing is the pretend plumber doing the job a good pretender can level your house flat in seconds and a lesser pretender will just piss your house through but I thank those sacks of shit fkin jobs up I make a good living going round putting your work right so cheers for that 👍
Hello Derek .that is so cool all last week I was looking on the Internet to find the more information about expansion vessel and what exactly is their job on the line and as you said all those RUclips videos just mentioned g3 documet . you can't see all the information and there are tiny details so glad to know I should read the water regulations book .useful and honestly really helpful information from you . Big shot out like always, dude
🙏🙌
Another excellent video, we must stop customers drinking heating water, that is the real problem, regards George Staszak 🥰👍
Thanks for reading all the documents for us and making a nice video to save us the hassle of researching it.
Lowering temperatures in heating and water systems starting to bring in more issues, it does make installing an unvented cylinder with an internal expansion system a lot more attractive.
As a retired heating engineer of 47 yrs and Plumbing and Heating lecturer for many years, I 100 % agree with your views.
Generally, legionella on any 'closed' systems is low risk. However 'open' systems especially incorrectly installed f&e cisterns without inhibitor and shower heads that are only used infrequently are a risk and engineers should take care !
Haha, we should have shower heads with chrome garden hose attachments so anybody can take it off and drain it in an event of infrequent use. (Easy to replace, easy to clean, easy to prevent bacterial growth)
On a serious note. How do you install the F&E cistern incorrectly?
F&E Cistern would make no difference without inhibitor. It's the deadleg on the mcw to ballvalve I would be more worried about.
Excluding cases acquired during travel and hospital legionare's is rare in the UK. About 220 cases per year with about 20 deaths. This is about 4 to 5 times the chance of being struck by lightning. Included in the 220 cases are those acquired at swimming pools, schools, work places etc. To put this in perspective 6000 people a year are killed in domestic accidents 700 from falling down stairs.
Falling down stairs is quite easy to diagnose. Legionella less so. You don't have to die from something for it to have a detrimental health effect. There is probably a lot more legionella around than people think. Any warm standing water is going to grow it.
Excellent video , fitted my first unvented cylinder in 89 when they were pretty much an upgraded foamed cylinder with all the additional bits bolted to it. Could never really get my head around why in the water regs book it showed an in and out on the vessel. Sure , i could see the thinking behind it, but never actually seen it out in the field.
Brilliant informative vlog .
Thanks Derek
Thats got me thinking about the budget boiler that you worked on last, Long flexible hose on the expansion vessel,And the low water flow rate on the Hot 🤔
Combi boilers are never mentioned with legionella as they are instantaneous water heaters
Haha, I like your helmet...
I wonder how many plumbers/ heating engineers had legionnaires disease before.
I don't know a signal one. Perhaps I wasn't long enough in the trade to know one.
How many instances of Legionella are there being found in central heating systems heated water supplies? Appreciate in theory it could occur but how often does it occur?
Never been recorded in a domestic system
Yer But there was a restriction on the hot water flow rate through the boiler, That gets me thinking of a few things why they did that
Nice one, I thought legionella came from drinking water (who drinks heating water) and damp air.🤩👍
It is a bacteria which I believe is most dangerous when in steam - as it can infect your lungs through breathing it in - so steam showers/rooms probably the worst case.
You don't get it from drinking water.
@@jablot5054 thanks for your comment 🤩
There has never been a recorded outbreak of legionella from a domestic system in the U.K. - ever !
I have what I think is called a heat store or bank - an open vented hot wayer cylinder fed by central heating circuit - with a plate heat exchanger to DHW So no stored pressurised hot water, no legionella, and no pressure vessle regs as hot water side is just vented.
I can't understand why this isn't this more popular? Why are new systems all sealled systems with all that entails?
What about the expansion vessel bracket that you reviewed not long ago when technically the heating expansion vessel is upside down
what about it, the manufacturer has carried out tests on the product and found it exceptable.
When did it change that the vessel had to bit fitted ridged and not on a flexi. Went to a job last night vessel fell off the wall. To heavy full of water
Out longer than that vessel was on the wall 😜
Strange that you can fit isolation to unvented cylinder expansion but not to the heating one.
My thought entirely, isolate it, drain it, oh here's your coffee luv. Valve not reopened, bang! Or is it just me that's forgetful..... Getting old am guessing
Historically (i.e. 1990s) you were not supposed to. Kits came without them and installation instructions said you mustn't fit them (regardless of what the regs might have permitted).However, unventilated HW systems have pressure relief valves that vent into a tundish if the expansion vessel is U/S (as I suspect a significant proportion are). So shutting an isolation valve would still not be dangerous (though somewhat wasteful). On a heating system it may be more problematic.
@@ColinMill1 yes. On a sealed heating system you’d have a pressure relief valve too that would operate if the pressure built up.
So if you recharged a expansion vessel on a unvented system and the hot water ran a rusty colour doe that mean vessel bag has a hole in in it
Or between plumbing engineers and gas fitters?
No. Plumbers are not engineers
Seems a bit strange that you shouldn't fit a service valve and drain off on heat only boilers that have external expansion vessels. I don't see the problem as long as the PRV isn't valved too.
Are you allowed to take cold water draw off from directly below expansion vessel to a cold water tap over a sink so doesn't be come a dead leg
no because you would be drawing the hot water out of the cylinder because the expansion vessel is after the none return valve
no link to the trapex ? in the description
ruclips.net/video/vnT6HEUQLZo/видео.htmlsi=5ibDAJkh9Ss1pnqe
Sorry 😔
@@tomkatgastraining
thanks
It says you're the head trainer - do we have to wear that helmet to train our heads too?
With a comment like that you could do with your head testing
Thats a bugger i prefer the book. Easy to keep on hand, plumbers working out in the sticks with no signal will struggle to check stuff and it was a reference text allowed in city and guilds exams. Dunno how students will be affected by this.
I agree when we got the email saying the guide is now on line I thought really how will that work in exams and guess what at the end of the email it said print off copy’s for the exams 🤔
@@tomkatgastraining sounds like a cost saving issue for water regs more than anything else. They could still publish the books with a caveat that the online material should be cross checked when possible as it may have been updated.
So basically a dead leg?
❤❤❤❤❤
Don’t you mean wholesome poison
🤘😎🤘
the outfit 😁
You have a greater chance of dieing travelling to your next job!
shame he doesn't wear that hat when hes lecturing!
Who said I didn’t 😜
Has there ever been a confirmed case of Legionella in a domestic property? No, there has not.
Sorry mate there has been
@@tomkatgastrainingall the heat pump training I’ve had they all say we’ve never had a legionella incident domestically when they go through the legionella cleansing cycle.
@@jamesasprey2092 you didn’t make that clear in your question/answer
@@tomkatgastraining basically there trying to say that the legionella cycle of getting the hot water cylinder above 60 degrees a minimum of once a wk isn’t required. Not that I’m in agreement but the trainers say we’ve never had a legionella case in this country domestically.
@@jamesasprey2092 we will see if your trainer is correct in the coming years when heat pumps have been around longer. All the training material I have for heat pumps says you must have an anti legionella cycle on the cylinder being active at least once a week
The most dangerous thing about plumbing is the pretend plumber doing the job a good pretender can level your house flat in seconds and a lesser pretender will just piss your house through but I thank those sacks of shit fkin jobs up I make a good living going round putting your work right so cheers for that 👍
Look at you showing off your big hard helmet. 😂🪖