Excellent video. I am very glad for your ongoing videos on the historic Reformed view of baptism and the richness it holds. They are immensely edifying and highly educational! As a current member of a CREC church I think that what we practice is very much in line with what you described here, and while it is downstream of Federal Vision it is distinct and from what I have seen, clearly delineated from Lutheran or other views. It is of course a subject I am still learning more about, and always glad to continue learning in! Thanks again.
My son asked me why he needed to be baptised since he was raised in a Christian household. I could only say "it's commanded by scripture". But I want to go deeper here. So great video.
Something I find interesting about David’s child dying in 2 Samuel. The text explicitly tells us that the child died on the 7th day (12:18). This was one day shy of his son receiving the sign of circumcision, and still, David was confident he would see him again.
Great video. I'd like to see a more detailed comparison of this with federal vision. I was under the impression that this was basically the position of the federal vision folks, but they extended it to things like paedocommunion.
Depending on what branch of what is often called Federal vision you may be correct. As a member of a CREC church currently I can confirm that the things discussed in this vid seem very in line with what we believe. There are however other branches of what is/was Federal Vision (the CREC no longer calls themselves that though they hold to much of the theology that was originally associated with it), which might hold other views.
I believe baptism saves but not in presumptive regen. I think Rutherford is right (as always) that "baptism is a means of regeneration and is said to save us" and is a "hyperphysical means of salvation" (Rutherford's examination of Arminianism) DESPITE the fact that chronologically regeneration frequently comes long after baptism
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I have him downloaded and need to read him on this. One thing I love about the Reformed position is that regardless of where we’d put the Spirit’s normative work of regeneration, baptism still saves. It’s not the moment of administration but the sign itself that remains on the baptized person for all of life. Thanks for sending people over even during the livestream by the way!
@@lucashadd7703 Some could accept it because of his involvement with the Synod of Dort, though confessionally speaking, it would have to be by an exception as his view does stray a bit. Here’s a line from an article written by Michael Lynch who has done some work on Davenant: “Indeed, Bishop John Davenant, a delegate to the Synod of Dordt, along with fellow delegate Samuel Ward, taught that at baptism, all infants are forgiven of original guilt. Others, such as Westminster divine Cornelius Burgess, argued that the seed of regeneration imparted at baptism only extends to elect infants. Still, they all agreed that at baptism, saving grace is given by the Holy Spirit during infant baptism.” There’s crossover, but by not limiting the saving efficacy to the elect only, he strays quite a bit from the Reformed position. You can read the full article here: www.modernreformation.org/resources/articles/baptismal-regeneration-and-ex-opere-operato
@@RevDonBaker that was a great read. It's amazing how differently they describe baptism compared to the lower sacrementology of many of the more modern reformed preachers such as Sproul or other baptist influenced presbyterians.
When I visited my previous Baptist church (I go to a PCA church now) the pastor said that God works through families and cited some statistic that says 90%+ (don't remember the actual number) of Christians have Christian parents. Is there this variance in the reformed tradition concerning adult converts as well? I am mostly thinking about the Church of Christ's teaching that converts are saved at the time of Baptism and whether that comes from the founders' reformed background somehow.
FV adherent here. We actually do have clear categories. I can see how people would see that it gets close to Lutheranism, but if you listen carefully to how terms are defined, FV is indeed orthodox Reformed theology.
I mostly agree with you at least in as much as it is true of the church/tradition I am a part of. As a CREC member I think we do stay clearly and distinctly within the Reformed tradition and away from Lutheranism and other views.
@@tomh3721 Yes it can depend, but even the most 'extreme' FV guys (speaking solely of actual leaders in the movement) still have proper distinctions that avoid crossing the line into Lutheranism.
![The Doctrine of Election, Part 1 (Selected Scriptures) [Audio Only]](/img/1.gif)
Credit to Redeemed Zoomer for recommending this channel and video.
Right, I came here because of Rz.
Excellent video. I am very glad for your ongoing videos on the historic Reformed view of baptism and the richness it holds. They are immensely edifying and highly educational! As a current member of a CREC church I think that what we practice is very much in line with what you described here, and while it is downstream of Federal Vision it is distinct and from what I have seen, clearly delineated from Lutheran or other views. It is of course a subject I am still learning more about, and always glad to continue learning in! Thanks again.
I've been wondering about this for a while, thank you so much for this video
My son asked me why he needed to be baptised since he was raised in a Christian household.
I could only say "it's commanded by scripture". But I want to go deeper here. So great video.
Another great video! Thank you.
Keep doing the lords work! Greetings from Greece. ❤
Even as a firm non-Calvinist, I must say that your videos are fantastic!
Hi there! By non Calvinist, do you mean Baptist, Arminian, Roman, Lutheran, or something else?
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching!
Something I find interesting about David’s child dying in 2 Samuel. The text explicitly tells us that the child died on the 7th day (12:18). This was one day shy of his son receiving the sign of circumcision, and still, David was confident he would see him again.
Incredibly helpful. Thank you!
Great video. I'd like to see a more detailed comparison of this with federal vision.
I was under the impression that this was basically the position of the federal vision folks, but they extended it to things like paedocommunion.
Depending on what branch of what is often called Federal vision you may be correct. As a member of a CREC church currently I can confirm that the things discussed in this vid seem very in line with what we believe. There are however other branches of what is/was Federal Vision (the CREC no longer calls themselves that though they hold to much of the theology that was originally associated with it), which might hold other views.
I believe baptism saves but not in presumptive regen. I think Rutherford is right (as always) that "baptism is a means of regeneration and is said to save us" and is a "hyperphysical means of salvation" (Rutherford's examination of Arminianism) DESPITE the fact that chronologically regeneration frequently comes long after baptism
Thank you both for the PCUSA content
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I have him downloaded and need to read him on this. One thing I love about the Reformed position is that regardless of where we’d put the Spirit’s normative work of regeneration, baptism still saves. It’s not the moment of administration but the sign itself that remains on the baptized person for all of life. Thanks for sending people over even during the livestream by the way!
Do you think john davenant's view of baptism is acceptable in reformed theology?
Yes it's Augustinian
@@lucashadd7703 Some could accept it because of his involvement with the Synod of Dort, though confessionally speaking, it would have to be by an exception as his view does stray a bit. Here’s a line from an article written by Michael Lynch who has done some work on Davenant: “Indeed, Bishop John Davenant, a delegate to the Synod of Dordt, along with fellow delegate Samuel Ward, taught that at baptism, all infants are forgiven of original guilt. Others, such as Westminster divine Cornelius Burgess, argued that the seed of regeneration imparted at baptism only extends to elect infants. Still, they all agreed that at baptism, saving grace is given by the Holy Spirit during infant baptism.” There’s crossover, but by not limiting the saving efficacy to the elect only, he strays quite a bit from the Reformed position.
You can read the full article here: www.modernreformation.org/resources/articles/baptismal-regeneration-and-ex-opere-operato
@@RevDonBaker that was a great read. It's amazing how differently they describe baptism compared to the lower sacrementology of many of the more modern reformed preachers such as Sproul or other baptist influenced presbyterians.
Reformed Anglicans winning at the end there
When I visited my previous Baptist church (I go to a PCA church now) the pastor said that God works through families and cited some statistic that says 90%+ (don't remember the actual number) of Christians have Christian parents.
Is there this variance in the reformed tradition concerning adult converts as well? I am mostly thinking about the Church of Christ's teaching that converts are saved at the time of Baptism and whether that comes from the founders' reformed background somehow.
Do you have those statistics? I'd be very interested to see them. Thanks!
@@tategarrett3042 No I just remember it being cited
@@maxxiong I getcha. is the sermon posted anywhere?
you are SO much better than redeemed zoomer
Both are on the same team so it's all good
@@Xairos84 it is RZ livestream reference
Oooh I take it back 😂
@ yeah ahahha he said "unsubscribe from my channel and subscribe to this guy, he is much better than me" so i just followed with his joke
I think this would be much easier for you if you just become Lutheran.
FV adherent here. We actually do have clear categories. I can see how people would see that it gets close to Lutheranism, but if you listen carefully to how terms are defined, FV is indeed orthodox Reformed theology.
Think that depends on the FV advocate you’re talking too!
I mostly agree with you at least in as much as it is true of the church/tradition I am a part of. As a CREC member I think we do stay clearly and distinctly within the Reformed tradition and away from Lutheranism and other views.
@@tomh3721 Yes it can depend, but even the most 'extreme' FV guys (speaking solely of actual leaders in the movement) still have proper distinctions that avoid crossing the line into Lutheranism.
Here before redeemed zoomer????
I swear this doctrine doesn’t comport with reformed Soteriology.