Sir, I have watched almost all your videos, and I have never heard anyone who could describe divergent groups in a way as thorough, accurate, and unbiased as you do. There is no channel on RUclips who does what you do, as well as you do it. Thank you!
Except he predicated it all upon a false division. There are many Orthodox churches, and each one has a Catholic counterpart through the Eastern rites. Consequently, this video is really a comparison between the Latin rite or Roman church and the other 23 sui iuris Catholic churches. So not really an outstanding effort, as the video's fundamental conceit is that what's normative for the Roman church is normative for the whole Catholic Church. It’s not worthless, as I’ve watched all three videos. But it’s also not great as his approach leads to some fundamental misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.
26:51 I used to attend a congregation that was part of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North America. They used a mix of Greek and English, and would honor those in the parish from other Orthodox traditions by reciting the Lord's Prayer in Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Arabic. They even said it in Spanish and Armenian to honor some converts who spoke those as their native tongues.
That was my experience as well when I attended a GOArch parish. My current Antiochian parish does the whole liturgy in English except sometimes the Lord Have Mercy/To Thee, O' Lord/Grant This O' Lord is in Greek, Arabic, Slavonic, or Romanian
8:45 While they are not distinct denominations, I would love to see videos discussing the difference in Catholic orders. Though I do realize it may be less interesting non-Catholics.
Catholic orders would be closer to the concept of being a denomination than the idea the erroneous idea that the Catholic Church is just a denomination of Christianity.
This is probably the best objective Clear, and concise explanation of the differences between the RC and the EO that I have seen so far on RUclips. Hats off to this young man for such an excellent presentation.
This has been an exceptional and serious look at the real differences between these two churches (or branches of the church.) Until I started studying Orthodoxy, I did not realize how much my Protestant faith had been influenced by Catholicism. I am not fully Orthodox, but it is very eye-opening to see how the theology between East and West diverged.
Except there is there is no monolithic orthodoxy, and every one of the Orthodox churches has a Catholic counterpart. So everything in “Orthodoxy” is already in the Catholic faith. What you probably meant to say is how much your Protestantism had been influenced by the Roman church, which when think about is a huge, duh. The Roman Church is the Church in which all Protestant theology developed in opposition, so of course it will have been influential.
Thank you for clarifying that some of these differences are related to the Rites (Latin, Byzantine etc.), which exist and are accpected within the Catholic Church. God bless you!
I was curious so I checked: about 32% of US Catholic parishes run Mass in Spanish at least some of the time (usually they have some masses in Spanish and others in English.)
Very willing to bet that Dante got his story from a native American story, then made it catholic. We can go visit this native American layers of he'll from Dantes . (Mexico)
@27:19 Note how it was the Greek bishops who wanted to use Modern Greek but, when the youth protested that change, they were compelled to keep the traditional language. This may help explain why Latin masses are also filled with youth.
That seems odd to me, probably because many Orthodox youth in the States are leaving ethnic parishes in which English is hardly used. The standard Orthodox practice historically has been to present the faith to new lands in the language of the people, including Bibles, services, and so on. The problem is that translations need to be done by people who are both Holy and educated. There’s no other way to preserve the true spirit of the texts.
He’s talking about Greece. Nowadays there’s no excuse anymore, there is no illiteracy, with a little effort you can understand the Greek in the Church services. Koine Greek is very close to modern Greek. The Greek education system’s curriculum should increase the hours of Ancient Greek classes in stead of restricting them. Internet is also very helpful. If you’re interested in the Faith, you’re gonna make an effort. If not, you’re gonna make excuses.
@@HellenicLegend7 True but many parents do a terrible job of imparting the faith to their children. Oftentimes it’s “Because we’re Greek” or “It’s what we do”. That may be enough for some children. It’s obvious by how many ethnic Orthodox in the diaspora are leaving the faith that this is not enough. Most Gen X or younger adults I know who grew up in Greek-speaking parishes in the US did not understand the majority of the Liturgy until they were old enough to make the decision to take up the faith for themselves. That’s a very efficient way for parents to kill the faith in their children.
@@nathandaniels4823 I agree. Unfortunately secularism is a sneaky and dangerous opponent. At least, if you have the basics you can always return at a later age. I’m placing my trust in God, that there will be events in the future that will shake us up and make us think more seriously about the Faith.
Great series, looking forward to the conclusion. I agree with the statement about 31 - Primacy/Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome as being the most significant difference. Some of the other differences may be seen as more important theologically by some, and others may affect the day-to-day life of the faithful more; but agreement on this one would mean agreement on the organ of teaching that would make all other differences in principle resolvable.
As an Orthodox Christian, you have done excellently describing the differences. Regarding the canon scripture, as you accurately demonstrated, there is some disagreement, especially between some people of Greek Orthodox tradition and those of Arabic, African, and Slavic traditions. Being part of a Slavic church, we generally don't view any canon as being inferior. The short canon is fine, the long canon is fine, and even the canon of the Ethiopian church, which is even longer, is also fine, we can study all of them and take instruction from all of them. It is often falsely believed that the ecumenical counsels established biblical canon, this isn't true. Biblical canon was established by church tradition, and different areas had different traditions, and this was fine. Specific works were rejected for possessing gnostic doctrine or heretical authorship, but none of these were ever widely used by the Orthodox churches.
Medieval Greek is not that hard for Greeks to understand for people who know the text. It's a beautiful rich language, more so than modern Greek I think, and the hymns sound beautiful for those who understand. I fill like I find new ways of thinking while reading medieval Greek is really fascinating to me. Regardless, after the service, the priest will translate and analyze the text anyway.
@@Ggdivhjkjl Finland requires all Christian churches to use the Roman Catholic calendar for fixed feasts and dating Easter. It's actually a national law.
I will say that in Coptic churches in Egypt and in the US, we have pews. So maybe that's an Oriental/East difference too. But my particular orthodox church used to be a Methodist church. We renovated it in the 90s haha I dont think I've ever seen a purpose built orthodox church
Yes that true for many Greek Orthodox Churches. In Cyprus (and I believe Greece too) many churches will use a type of chair with a folding seat and two arm rests of different height. One to use when seated and one for when your standing which can be used to lean on. My dads cousin was married in a Serbian Orthodox Church in the UK, which had been newly built in the traditional Serbian Orthodox style and that’s the only time I’ve been to a church with no pews or chairs of some kind.
@@jeremias-serus that's ignorance from many catholics in the Latin rite. Faith was defined in the first 3 ecumenical councils. Thus, they both recite the nicene Constantinople creed. Thus, it's the same faith. Otherwise, why is their interfaith communion??
@@josephjacob3274 Firstly there isn't interfaith communion from the Orthodox side--Orthodox priests will not administer communion to me. But secondly we're using the word faith differently. Same religion? Maybe, if that's what the Churches agree to. But that's not what I'm speaking to. Simply put, they're not the exact same thing. My side kneels to Rome and the Orthodox do not, among others as you well know. Clearly they're not the same thing.
@jeremias-serus you talk of papal supremacy. Just because orthodox doesn't submit to pope, doesn't mean faith is different. If they profess the same creed from nicene Constantinople, it's no different. Oriental orthodox I know do. Eastern orthodox I hears some do and some don't, depends on the parish priest
There is no Orthodox church for which there isn't an already existing Catholic counterpart. So the only difference is the recognition of the Pope. Literally that's it.
@@JudeMalachi Also the same for Oriental Orthodox Churches (miaphysites) and the Church of the East (Nestorian), who were declared heretics by the early Church. It’s abundantly clear that the pope doesn’t care for common Faith as long as they submit to him.
@@JudeMalachithat isn’t entirely true. Among the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches, there are various degrees to which each church has been “latinized.” Some, like the Melkite Catholic Church (which traces its history to the early church of Antioch) are much more similar to Eastern Orthodox in terms of theology and practice. Others, like the Maronite Catholic Church, will have more distinctives that “look Roman Catholic.” For examples, Melkites will be very careful to call their service the “Divine Liturgy,” *not* “Mass,” and their recitation of the Nicean Creed does not include the filioque. On the other hand, Maronites will use “Divine Liturgy” and “Mass” almost interchangeably, and do have the filioque.
As a Catholic who has been asked these questions I am loving this most resent series. Would you happen to have any videos on prosperity gospel and it’s history? I have a morbid fascination with that branch of Christianity which is so distinctly American and so in-Christian in its beliefs and I would like to learn more.
Married priests: RUclipsr Taylor Marshall was a married Episcopal priest who converted to Roman Catholicism approx. twelve years ago, and says that he was eligible for a program that would have made him a Roman Catholic priest (although he chose not to pursue that).
Reason Vs Mystery is one of the reasons I admire Orthodoxy as a Protestant. In the West we try to rack our brains trying to figure out God, but the truth is obviously we cannot truly comprehend God.
Ask an Orthodox theologian why the filioque is wrong and you'll get no shortage of reasoning. I think this whole "respect for mystery" thing is overstated, especially when you read the early councils.
Yes but our human reasoning is finite, which is my point, theology has done a great job articulating mysteries and giving sound doctrine but yet it also confuses many
Both denominations have produced good fruit and survived for centuries/millenia. Maybe the almighty approves of both but both may get a slap on the wrist for certain practices. Who knows.
About the Ferrara-Florence council, it was purely for political reasons that the Orthodox agreed to attend. Constantinople was surrounded by the Turks and the Emperor sought military assistance from the pope and the West, that was the condition that the pope made. The Orthodox had to accept the union on the pope’s terms (universal supremacy and the Filioque). That’s why upon return of the delegation in Constantinople the people and clergy didn’t accept it and strongly condemned the union, the same happened in the other patriarchates. The only who upheld the union until the Fall of the City was the Emperor (who was also present at the Council) and a small faction of intellectuals.
One note on Church Slavonic is that it is fairly easy for a Serbian speaker to understand with only learning a few words or grammatical differences. This is likely similar for most other Slavs.
Anglicans don't have much that is fixed, apart from an Episcopal structure. There are Anglicans who would be theologically close to Catholics, and then others that would march to a more Liberal Protestant beat. Still others that would be part of the Evangelical protestant world. So Anglicanism couldn't really be compared to one Church in the same way. One reason for this is its history in the state Church of England. Not too long ago here in England the mentality was that you would be a part of the English Church for English people. You belonged to the same national institution, no matter your theological persuasion.
The Anglican Church in England focuses on this idea of being that nation's church still, but in a different way. It's the open church in the heart of every city centre, and the one there for important national events. In the US I've seen a similar idea, focusing on the care that a church can offer as a community while allowing its members to hold a number of opinions. I think the common thread is the importance of the church's function, rather than the details of what is taught.
There's only a couple of channels on RUclips that I would confidently say show the character of Christ, and yours is one of them. I was recently baptized Seventh Day Adventist and I read all the comments and how you replied to some; I was very impressed with how specific and kind you were trying to be. Thank you for being you my friend.
Well I never expected to show up in one of Joshua's videos (21:35), but glad to see our parish as an example of an Ordinary Form parishes that celebrates mass Ad Orientem (both liturgically and temporally 😂)
Correction on the Biblical canon: there is no definitive list or numbering of OT books. While there are various councils that produce lists and a number of patristic writings on the topic, none of them are dogmatic.
There is no canon of Old Testament books in the Orthodox Church. There are traditions with the principal tradition being the Byzantine, septuigent/LXX tradition. The Vulgate OT was, at one time, also an Orthodox tradition. The New Testament does have a formalized canon. Some years in the past the Romanian Church has included the book of Enoch in the Old Testament. The first formalized canon for the OT in Christianity that was something beyond a tradition handed down was the Protestant reception of “Rabbis,” in rejection of Christian traditions.
On point 36 Hell (and kinda on 37 Limbo) some trad EOs will agree with the trad Caths. They often accept saint Ignatius Bryanchaninov's book "Word on death" as authoritarive, it gives a summary of some trad EO views on various things about death quoting various earlier saints, church fathers, and hymns. That book says that Hell is a physical place in the depths of the Earth, and that after the Second coming, final judgement, and the resurrection - Hell will again be a physical place separate from Heaven, and the suffering in Hell will be physical, including physical flames. Also Bryanchaninov mentions there a trad EO teaching similar to Limbo, namely that of a third place, that is neither Hell nor Heaven, which is for people who cant go to Heaven due to unbelief or sinfulness, but also are not sinful enough to deserve the sufferings of Hell.
I don't think it's even all that fringe for Orthodox to believe in the post-resurrection Second Death / Lake of Fire, as prepared for Satan and the demons and available for anyone who chooses it.
Another great video. If I might add, the difference regarding hell is actually not a difference. While Orthodox today tend to feel more comfortable with the language of hell as God's love towards a sinner, in our Orthodox Tradition we still have visions of hell as an actual place where there is a real fire burning the unrepentant.
Seating: You can tell you are basing this all off reading Church websites. When visiting Mt Athos and Churches around Thessoniki, Greece, there were either Stadia seats or in some cases they also had chairs set up in rows just like pews. This idea that many American Orthodox Christian’s have that traditional means no sitting though is not true in most of the Orthodox world. No, they don’t have pews. They do have seating though. I have heard that in Serbia and many parts of Russia that there is far less seating available (only around outside for elderly). Friends visiting Constantinople also told me there were booth type seats in the Hagia Sofia and seating in the Churches around Constantinople.
17:48 The desire of Westerners to "reason things to the bottom" is why/how we eventually developed the Scientific Method, and progressed so far in material wealth. (Whether or not that is a Good Thing is a different question.)
😊😊❤ very good information. As PROTESTANT SO MUCH OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE FAITH IS CATHOLIC, WESTERN. I BELIEVE WE IN PROTESTANTISM CAN LEARN FROM OUR FAMILY IN ORTHODOXIES
Versus populum can also simply mean that the priest turns toward the people at certain points of the Divine Liturgy or Mass. This happens in the Orthodox Church. The priest mainly faces east, but at certain points he does turn to the people and then turns back.
The same applies in Latin liturgies. There are specific places in the rubrics, even in the current addition of the Roman Missal, that say "stans... versus ad populum ..." I don't remember specifically, but it is called out maybe 5 or 6 times in the post Vatican II liturgy for the priest to "face toward the people".
Mass in Latin is a significantly more reverent and beautiful style while common tongue is more personal and easy to digest. As a new convert I think they are both useful even if I prefer Latin
It's only that because you don't know latin. Latin is not even the language of the scripture, it don't have any special position in religious terms - it's just the language of church administration.
@@prkp7248 The difference is more in delivery than anything else, traditional Latin is generally sung, or recited quietly and away from the congregation, while common tongue is delivered more directly to the congregation.
One difference between the Churches is that the Catholic Church sent missionaries throughout the known world such as the Americas, Africa and Asia. The Orthodox not so much.
I speak much like ypu do when describing religions.being I was protestant than nobis order (studied and went to other religions) than eastern rite catholic to Latin rite and I think I'll be at home at rocor. I have always described whetever faith path I took outside myself and independent as possible. I'm really impressed you mostly spot on. To note their is oriental orthdox too. What a confusing mess
Fyi, sui iuris, is pronounced Soo/ee yoo/rees because the i represents the sound ee in the first instance and the sound jay in the second. In older Latin books, it spelled sui juris.
Important to note that the Latin Catholic Church is home to ~1.3 billion and more geographically widespread and ethnically diverse than the ~230 million Eastern Orthodox mostly confined to Russia, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Catholicism is worldwide and 5x the size of Eastern Orthodoxy. The Catholic Church is home to over 50% of Christians… Eastern Orthodoxy is home to barely 10% of Christians and half of these Christians belong to the Russian Orthodox Church (4.5%). ROCOR is home 0.02% of Christians and around the same size as the SSPX.
You failed to mention how that happened. Through the sword and colonialism. Not a very good thing to boast of. While most Orthodox countries were under Ottoman occupation in the same period.
@@HellenicLegend7 Cope. Christians believe history is providential. The accidents of history are meaningful. The majority of the world encountered the kingdom of Christ through the Catholic Church. Eastern Orthodoxy has remained inactive and on the margins.
One is in every history book that ended in tragedy and loss. The same group has many scary stories coming from within. The other feels, smells, and sounds like the real one. It only has one issue that may be a non issue if my information is wrong on evolution in the church.
Revelation makes clear that there is a real division between the saved and the damned. They cannot be in the same place, as the visionary Disco Stu reported, for "nothing unclean may enter" the holy city.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1 ------ He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (And we all know, be the husband of one wife) ------ They will forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, 1 Tim 4 That wasn't hard was it.
In the Levantine area many Arabs (as opposed to Greeks; Armenians; or other minorities) left to join foreign missionaries because they used the vernacular Arabic.
Most adherents to catholicism and orthodoxy are not even aware of these differences. They simply beleive in christ as son of god and that he is the sacrificial lamb . Sometimes the more uneducated you childlike u are the better. Purity of heart is what christ looks for.
This is a two edge sword. You are basically saying that since most of the laity (in just about any denomination) does not know their distinctions, therefore, they don't really matter because it is childlike to be ignorant, and the Lord said to be as children in order to enter the Kingdom of God. Christ said to be wise as serpents, and meek as lambs, however. It's a careful line. We should not be pharasaical, yet, we should not be so open minded that our brains fall out of our heads
@@George-ur8ow Agree some level of shrewdness is necessary. However, my comment was not for any denomination but confined to the subject of differences between catholics and orthodox. I beleive the laity already know that jehovas witnesses, mormons , unitarians etc.... are completely distinct to christianity.
some of us find fascination with the differences from an analytical perspective, and remember the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. a bit strange to suggest that one should be uneducated. blessings
@@Seashellsbytheseashore21 wouldnt say one should be uneducated , afterall many or even most priests have theological degrees. However, sometimes too much analysis can be counterproductive and make us miss the mark. Easter bkessings.
The use of instruments other than Organ, piano, and vocals are very controversial in the Roman Catholic church in the US. Some people would go as far to say that the use of guitar during mass is liturgical abuse.
I'm Roman Catholic, and I absolutely despise the use of guitars (especially electric guitars), drums, and other rock instruments during Mass--it's like they're trying to be "hip."
The desire to feel safe, or protect others, determines all human decisions. Anyone arguing about this or that, is fundamentally about what this or that particular individual needs or wants in order to Feel safe. People trying to convince themself of anything else is BS If they didn't feel safe They wouldn't make the choices they make.
Given the Orthodox understanding of hell, a closely related understanding is that while hell is eternal because God is eternal, anyone may repent and thus, begin to experience God, not as hell, but as heaven.
@@Ggdivhjkjl I assume you are not Orthodox? Many would not see it this way. Why? Because the overwhelming reality is "God is Love" and that God desires ALL to be saved.
@@jukesngambits there are many who are Eastern (or non-Chalcedonian) who would disagree. One such person is David Bentley Hart: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bentley_Hart
I guarantee you that(Virtually) no living Orthodox Christian has ever attended a Liturgy they fully understood, even if it was conducted in their native tongue. I’ve been an Orthodox Christian for over 20 years. If I devoted the rest of my days to studying the Divine Liturgy, I’d die barely having scratched the surface.
The moment where, to a former Roman Catholic now atheist, the Orthodox Church makes much more sense lol. Reason is what got me out of religion in the first place.
Yes you are quite correct in your statement that Western Christians tend to regard Eastern theology and liturgy as acceptable variations but it does not always extend in the other direction. I think is because the West desires reunion while the East for whatever reason seems to want continued separation.
The reason is that there can be no union if we don't believe the same things. The fact that you desire a false union betrays a lot about you though, "just submit to the pope and believe whatever you want" does that sound correct to you?
@@Μπρο nice straw man, that tendency to dishonesty caricature everything is the real problem as is the tendency of the East to disagree simply for the sake of disagreeing. If the Pope were to say that 2+2 = 4 there would be Orthodox who would condemn it as heresy on the grounds that he didn't consider arithmetic modulo 3.
@@ΜπροWhy would the Orthodox be free to believe "whatever they want" if they reunited with Rome? Aren't Eastern Catholics obligated to believe the same dogmas and definitive teachings as the rest of the Catholic Church? This is an honest question.
@@raphaelportelinha1738 They are supposed to but in practice some uniates don't believe the same things. This is not the main point though. I am just pointing out that he is trying to downplay important religious differences by saying "for whatever reason", it's not whatever reason it is the most important reasons! If you actually believe in God these things are more important than just being unified to not be meanies or whatever. You say "This is an honest question" so I fear that I have seemed to you going full debate mode, this was not my intention God Bless you! P.S. I wrote the entire comment and then deleted it by mistake so I had to rewrite it quickly if something doesn't make sense I can clarify
Humm... A lot of it and what was taught in the other two videos looks PRETTY similar to what RZ said on his video about West vs East, just more nuanced.
You can tell that this man is very learned but it's still funny to hear mispronounciations of reasonably common literary words (Such as infirm at 20:36).
To st Martin of tours - Read my latest comment. To say protestant’s are Christian is to say there’s 48,000 protestant churches and that’s blasphemy because only Jesus can found a Church and that’s what his holiness and the Catholic Church are not realising or seeing.
4:06 "There are only Seven Ecumenical Councils" "It is misleading to say the orthodox have not had any further Ecumenical Councils" LMAO, you guys can't even agree at something so important as how many Ecumenical Councils are there
to martinoftours - protestant’s including the orthodox say with Satan WE WILL NOT SERVE the infallible Magisterium of the holy Catholic Church therefore they are anathema - outside of salvation! Only Catholic’s go to Heaven because there’s NO division in paradise
But you're disagreeing with your magisterium about Protestants and Eastern Orthodox. That they took can be saved. And specifically about the Orthodox, that they have valid sacraments. Are you disagreeing with your magisterium?
Historically there were different Jewish views about most of Scripture. The Sadducees, for example were notable for rejecting everything but the Torah. The compilers of the Septuagint, on the other hand, cast a wider net and included books that later Rabbinical Jews would reject. The fact is that there was no single Jewish canon at the time of Christ and that the physical elimination of rival sects like the Sadducees at the hands of the Romans contributed to the Pharisees' ability to set a Canon for all Jews.
@@jdotoz Didn't Paul use the Septuagint? IiRC he also quotes from one of the Apocrypha (maybe Sirach/Ecclasiasticus?) in one of his letters. Which I suppose makes sense, since everything in the LXX is in Greek.
@@thelasthandbook6704 To be fair, he also quoted from pagan poetry and philosophy, so this isn't quite as strong an argument as it may seem. And as you say, the LXX provided a ready at hand Greek version of the Scriptures which would have been helpful when writing in Greek.
@@thelasthandbook6704 The NT quotes from the Hebrew some passages which are not found in the LXX as well as quoting some which are only found in the LXX. All this shows is that the NT writers knew their Scriptures.
Such an odd question… Orthodox and Catholic are concerned with what the one true church (which church obviously debated) that Jesus founded and gave authority to has to say, not what ancient Jews have to say.
@@jdotoz get rid of the phillioque, stop blessing gay couples, allow priest to be ordained as married, dont give the pope immediate jurisdictions over every one... THEN GO TELL THAT TO ALL THE BISHOPS OF ALL THE ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT HERETIC!!!
@@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUs I honestly wouldn't know...I haven't been to (edit to change "really any" to "a majority of") protestant churches. The only Church I've ever been a member of is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and our bishops and the apostles and prophet (Church leader) all dress the same way as any laymen do when all of us are at Church; a typical suit and tie. (The women typically wear dresses.)
@@EmilyS-gk3st my point is that the vestments used by clergy and acolytes are liturgical and have a spiritual meaning. They also last a long time. The point is not to adorn the individual priest/acolyte. But to be participating ritually in the services of the Church, even through what they are wearing. The vestments reflect those in the old testament priesthood, and also a medic, a shepherd, and a soldier. Also, fun fact, there is a prayer that is recited prior to putting on each of the parts of the vestment of the clergy in Orthodox Church.
We Orthodox hope that Heterodox will come to their senses, repent, reject their heresies and inquire with EOC. We will Baptize them and voila.!... Unity.!
It's not, though. I was Catholic and converted to Orthodoxy. It is a completely different church. I feel a freedom in Orthodoxy that I never felt in Catholicism. And a love I never felt there. Those two arise from genuine differences in theology and practice. But I pray with you that they will unite soon.
The problem is that some of the differences between Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant are of such magnitude that men and women have been willing to die for them OR to kill others for them.
@@pedroguimaraes6094 That's because the videos are pointing out the differences not the similarities. They have been united before and will be again. The Papacy allows the Church to be beyond and above national control and boundaries something highlighted by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
@@thieph @uncivilized4873 is simply pointing out an observation. He does not say any particular sect is right or wrong, only that there appears to be a proclivity for sects to proclaim their veracity to the detriment of those outside a stated standard of beliefs.... Are you stating he is wrong? Do you think he peremptorily presumed he is right and all else are wrong? I recently heard an amusing yet profound statement: "I do not believe in the god that you do not believe in..." Namaste ~ Blessed Be ~~
Sir, I have watched almost all your videos, and I have never heard anyone who could describe divergent groups in a way as thorough, accurate, and unbiased as you do. There is no channel on RUclips who does what you do, as well as you do it. Thank you!
Yeah. He does a great job.
Agreed
Except he predicated it all upon a false division. There are many Orthodox churches, and each one has a Catholic counterpart through the Eastern rites. Consequently, this video is really a comparison between the Latin rite or Roman church and the other 23 sui iuris Catholic churches. So not really an outstanding effort, as the video's fundamental conceit is that what's normative for the Roman church is normative for the whole Catholic Church. It’s not worthless, as I’ve watched all three videos. But it’s also not great as his approach leads to some fundamental misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.
@@JudeMalachi you mean like, not emphasizing the Roman Catholic Church broke off from the Orthadox because it wanted to force the filioque heresy?
26:51 I used to attend a congregation that was part of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North America. They used a mix of Greek and English, and would honor those in the parish from other Orthodox traditions by reciting the Lord's Prayer in Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Arabic. They even said it in Spanish and Armenian to honor some converts who spoke those as their native tongues.
Same at my parish (Greek Orthodox, Great Britain)
That was my experience as well when I attended a GOArch parish. My current Antiochian parish does the whole liturgy in English except sometimes the Lord Have Mercy/To Thee, O' Lord/Grant This O' Lord is in Greek, Arabic, Slavonic, or Romanian
There is only one Orthodox "tradition"
I've been attending Eastern Orthodox Churches in my city the past few months
Pretty Cool Stuff Gotta Say
Please read my comment. God bless.
What a massive undertaking this series is. We are so grateful to you for this labor of love!
8:45 While they are not distinct denominations, I would love to see videos discussing the difference in Catholic orders. Though I do realize it may be less interesting non-Catholics.
Catholic orders would be closer to the concept of being a denomination than the idea the erroneous idea that the Catholic Church is just a denomination of Christianity.
I'm not catholic and I'd be very interested in a video breakdown of the different orders.
In the Scranton PA area, Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Rite churches frequently have pews.
This is probably the best objective Clear, and concise explanation of the differences between the RC and the EO that I have seen so far on RUclips. Hats off to this young man for such an excellent presentation.
Another great and informative video! Thank you! God bless!
This has been an exceptional and serious look at the real differences between these two churches (or branches of the church.) Until I started studying Orthodoxy, I did not realize how much my Protestant faith had been influenced by Catholicism. I am not fully Orthodox, but it is very eye-opening to see how the theology between East and West diverged.
Except there is there is no monolithic orthodoxy, and every one of the Orthodox churches has a Catholic counterpart. So everything in “Orthodoxy” is already in the Catholic faith. What you probably meant to say is how much your Protestantism had been influenced by the Roman church, which when think about is a huge, duh. The Roman Church is the Church in which all Protestant theology developed in opposition, so of course it will have been influential.
Please read my comment. God bless.
@@JudeMalachiplease read my comment. God bless.
Thank you for clarifying that some of these differences are related to the Rites (Latin, Byzantine etc.), which exist and are accpected within the Catholic Church. God bless you!
Please read my comment. God bless.
@@simonslater9024Which comment?
The one that says “please read my comment. God bless” 😁
@@nathandaniels4823 🤣
I was curious so I checked: about 32% of US Catholic parishes run Mass in Spanish at least some of the time (usually they have some masses in Spanish and others in English.)
Thanks for another great channel. Absolutely great work.
Come to Orthodoxy sister. One True Apostolic Universal Church Hristos established 2000 years ago.
You my friend, are the research King. I’m thoroughly impressed.
Unfortunately it seems most people get their wrong ideas of Hell from Dante's Inferno.
Very willing to bet that Dante got his story from a native American story, then made it catholic.
We can go visit this native American layers of he'll from Dantes . (Mexico)
@27:19 Note how it was the Greek bishops who wanted to use Modern Greek but, when the youth protested that change, they were compelled to keep the traditional language. This may help explain why Latin masses are also filled with youth.
That seems odd to me, probably because many Orthodox youth in the States are leaving ethnic parishes in which English is hardly used. The standard Orthodox practice historically has been to present the faith to new lands in the language of the people, including Bibles, services, and so on.
The problem is that translations need to be done by people who are both Holy and educated. There’s no other way to preserve the true spirit of the texts.
He’s talking about Greece. Nowadays there’s no excuse anymore, there is no illiteracy, with a little effort you can understand the Greek in the Church services. Koine Greek is very close to modern Greek. The Greek education system’s curriculum should increase the hours of Ancient Greek classes in stead of restricting them. Internet is also very helpful. If you’re interested in the Faith, you’re gonna make an effort. If not, you’re gonna make excuses.
@@HellenicLegend7 True but many parents do a terrible job of imparting the faith to their children. Oftentimes it’s “Because we’re Greek” or “It’s what we do”. That may be enough for some children. It’s obvious by how many ethnic Orthodox in the diaspora are leaving the faith that this is not enough. Most Gen X or younger adults I know who grew up in Greek-speaking parishes in the US did not understand the majority of the Liturgy until they were old enough to make the decision to take up the faith for themselves. That’s a very efficient way for parents to kill the faith in their children.
@@nathandaniels4823 I agree. Unfortunately secularism is a sneaky and dangerous opponent. At least, if you have the basics you can always return at a later age. I’m placing my trust in God, that there will be events in the future that will shake us up and make us think more seriously about the Faith.
Also... Well done. really good rapid fire list of differences. very unbiased. Super well done.
Great series, looking forward to the conclusion. I agree with the statement about 31 - Primacy/Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome as being the most significant difference. Some of the other differences may be seen as more important theologically by some, and others may affect the day-to-day life of the faithful more; but agreement on this one would mean agreement on the organ of teaching that would make all other differences in principle resolvable.
What a mouthful. Good job.
As an Orthodox Christian, you have done excellently describing the differences. Regarding the canon scripture, as you accurately demonstrated, there is some disagreement, especially between some people of Greek Orthodox tradition and those of Arabic, African, and Slavic traditions. Being part of a Slavic church, we generally don't view any canon as being inferior. The short canon is fine, the long canon is fine, and even the canon of the Ethiopian church, which is even longer, is also fine, we can study all of them and take instruction from all of them.
It is often falsely believed that the ecumenical counsels established biblical canon, this isn't true. Biblical canon was established by church tradition, and different areas had different traditions, and this was fine. Specific works were rejected for possessing gnostic doctrine or heretical authorship, but none of these were ever widely used by the Orthodox churches.
Please read my comment. God bless.
Excuse me but the Ethiopian Orthodox are not part of our Church.
Medieval Greek is not that hard for Greeks to understand for people who know the text. It's a beautiful rich language, more so than modern Greek I think, and the hymns sound beautiful for those who understand. I fill like I find new ways of thinking while reading medieval Greek is really fascinating to me. Regardless, after the service, the priest will translate and analyze the text anyway.
very interesting comparison, can't wait for part 4
Today is the first Sunday of Great Lent, the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy. Wishing a blessed fast to all.
It's Palm Sunday in the Finnish Orthodox Church.
@@Ggdivhjkjl Finland requires all Christian churches to use the Roman Catholic calendar for fixed feasts and dating Easter. It's actually a national law.
2nd Sunday of Lent in the Coptic Church
Good strength!
@@jec1nythat's messed up...
This is how I learn that St George's that I drive by all the time in my hometown is one of the rare Greek Orthodox churches with an organ
I will say that in Coptic churches in Egypt and in the US, we have pews. So maybe that's an Oriental/East difference too. But my particular orthodox church used to be a Methodist church. We renovated it in the 90s haha I dont think I've ever seen a purpose built orthodox church
Do you also have microphones?
Yes that true for many Greek Orthodox Churches. In Cyprus (and I believe Greece too) many churches will use a type of chair with a folding seat and two arm rests of different height. One to use when seated and one for when your standing which can be used to lean on. My dads cousin was married in a Serbian Orthodox Church in the UK, which had been newly built in the traditional Serbian Orthodox style and that’s the only time I’ve been to a church with no pews or chairs of some kind.
Nothing but love to our Orthodox brothers and sisters watching ❤✝How beautiful are our two faiths!
It's the same faith.
@@josephjacob3274 If it was exactly the same then there would be no division, hence separate faiths 😅
@@jeremias-serus that's ignorance from many catholics in the Latin rite. Faith was defined in the first 3 ecumenical councils. Thus, they both recite the nicene Constantinople creed. Thus, it's the same faith. Otherwise, why is their interfaith communion??
@@josephjacob3274 Firstly there isn't interfaith communion from the Orthodox side--Orthodox priests will not administer communion to me.
But secondly we're using the word faith differently. Same religion? Maybe, if that's what the Churches agree to. But that's not what I'm speaking to. Simply put, they're not the exact same thing. My side kneels to Rome and the Orthodox do not, among others as you well know. Clearly they're not the same thing.
@jeremias-serus you talk of papal supremacy. Just because orthodox doesn't submit to pope, doesn't mean faith is different. If they profess the same creed from nicene Constantinople, it's no different. Oriental orthodox I know do. Eastern orthodox I hears some do and some don't, depends on the parish priest
Would it be possible to have this whole series in written form? It would be very useful.
Eastern Catholic vs Eastern Orthodox would be interesting
There is no Orthodox church for which there isn't an already existing Catholic counterpart. So the only difference is the recognition of the Pope. Literally that's it.
@@JudeMalachi Also the same for Oriental Orthodox Churches (miaphysites) and the Church of the East (Nestorian), who were declared heretics by the early Church. It’s abundantly clear that the pope doesn’t care for common Faith as long as they submit to him.
@@JudeMalachithat isn’t entirely true. Among the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches, there are various degrees to which each church has been “latinized.” Some, like the Melkite Catholic Church (which traces its history to the early church of Antioch) are much more similar to Eastern Orthodox in terms of theology and practice. Others, like the Maronite Catholic Church, will have more distinctives that “look Roman Catholic.”
For examples, Melkites will be very careful to call their service the “Divine Liturgy,” *not* “Mass,” and their recitation of the Nicean Creed does not include the filioque. On the other hand, Maronites will use “Divine Liturgy” and “Mass” almost interchangeably, and do have the filioque.
Both are the same thing.
@@JudeMalachi also, as far as I know, there is no Catholic equivalent for the Romanian Orthodox Church
As a Catholic who has been asked these questions I am loving this most resent series.
Would you happen to have any videos on prosperity gospel and it’s history? I have a morbid fascination with that branch of Christianity which is so distinctly American and so in-Christian in its beliefs and I would like to learn more.
I second this
Dial 1 800 GIV CASH for a promise into heaven. The church needs a brand new jet so I can go on vacation.
Married priests: RUclipsr Taylor Marshall was a married Episcopal priest who converted to Roman Catholicism approx. twelve years ago, and says that he was eligible for a program that would have made him a Roman Catholic priest (although he chose not to pursue that).
That program does exist.
He is also very much among the anti-Pope Francis crowd. For that I simply can not respect him
There are thousands of married Roman Catholic priests. The Ordinariate has greatly boosted their numbers too.
and you're braggin' this?
@@JudeMalachi Braggin' what?
Reason Vs Mystery is one of the reasons I admire Orthodoxy as a Protestant. In the West we try to rack our brains trying to figure out God, but the truth is obviously we cannot truly comprehend God.
I would say it’s true that we cannot *fully* understand God. It does not mean we cannot use logic and reason to understand Him more
Love God with all your heart, soul, and MIND, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Ask an Orthodox theologian why the filioque is wrong and you'll get no shortage of reasoning. I think this whole "respect for mystery" thing is overstated, especially when you read the early councils.
Yes but our human reasoning is finite, which is my point, theology has done a great job articulating mysteries and giving sound doctrine but yet it also confuses many
Both denominations have produced good fruit and survived for centuries/millenia. Maybe the almighty approves of both but both may get a slap on the wrist for certain practices. Who knows.
Great discussion! I would like to see the discussion on the Catholic development of doctrine, and the Catholic teaching on created grace.
You should mention that the Orthodox did attend some of the councils they later rejected, most famously Ferrara Florence
And the Catholics of Constantinople V 879-880
About the Ferrara-Florence council, it was purely for political reasons that the Orthodox agreed to attend. Constantinople was surrounded by the Turks and the Emperor sought military assistance from the pope and the West, that was the condition that the pope made. The Orthodox had to accept the union on the pope’s terms (universal supremacy and the Filioque). That’s why upon return of the delegation in Constantinople the people and clergy didn’t accept it and strongly condemned the union, the same happened in the other patriarchates. The only who upheld the union until the Fall of the City was the Emperor (who was also present at the Council) and a small faction of intellectuals.
Thank you for this! Very helpful.
One note on Church Slavonic is that it is fairly easy for a Serbian speaker to understand with only learning a few words or grammatical differences. This is likely similar for most other Slavs.
Excellent job as always! Any chance you could do a differences between Catholics and Anglicans or Orthodox and Anglicans? Thanks!
A video on the differences between Anglicans and Anglicans would probably require a year long series.
@@Ggdivhjkjl haha!!! As an Anglican, I concur! 😅
Anglicans don't have much that is fixed, apart from an Episcopal structure. There are Anglicans who would be theologically close to Catholics, and then others that would march to a more Liberal Protestant beat. Still others that would be part of the Evangelical protestant world. So Anglicanism couldn't really be compared to one Church in the same way. One reason for this is its history in the state Church of England. Not too long ago here in England the mentality was that you would be a part of the English Church for English people. You belonged to the same national institution, no matter your theological persuasion.
The Anglican Church in England focuses on this idea of being that nation's church still, but in a different way. It's the open church in the heart of every city centre, and the one there for important national events. In the US I've seen a similar idea, focusing on the care that a church can offer as a community while allowing its members to hold a number of opinions. I think the common thread is the importance of the church's function, rather than the details of what is taught.
There's only a couple of channels on RUclips that I would confidently say show the character of Christ, and yours is one of them. I was recently baptized Seventh Day Adventist and I read all the comments and how you replied to some; I was very impressed with how specific and kind you were trying to be. Thank you for being you my friend.
Well I never expected to show up in one of Joshua's videos (21:35), but glad to see our parish as an example of an Ordinary Form parishes that celebrates mass Ad Orientem (both liturgically and temporally 😂)
Could you plesse get the Oriental Orthodox into the mix? Your videos are of the highest quality! Thanks.
Correction on the Biblical canon: there is no definitive list or numbering of OT books. While there are various councils that produce lists and a number of patristic writings on the topic, none of them are dogmatic.
Hi Joshua, can you make the same series for deep differences between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox?
There is no canon of Old Testament books in the Orthodox Church. There are traditions with the principal tradition being the Byzantine, septuigent/LXX tradition. The Vulgate OT was, at one time, also an Orthodox tradition. The New Testament does have a formalized canon. Some years in the past the Romanian Church has included the book of Enoch in the Old Testament. The first formalized canon for the OT in Christianity that was something beyond a tradition handed down was the Protestant reception of “Rabbis,” in rejection of Christian traditions.
Amazing work! Thank you! I honestly only seek the fullness of God and I pray the Lord reveals it to me
A video about churches claiming to be catholic would be interesting like the Palmarian Christian Church or Society of Saint Pius
The Society of St Pius is part of the Church. The Palmarians are not.
@@richardounjian9270 SSPX is loosely. SSPV questions if the holy see is occupied
@@alexmaria2929 correct. SSPV isn't recognized by Rome. Rome does recognize SSPX now
Please do an Eastern Orthodox vs Oriental Orthodox and Catholic Church vs Oriental Orthodox Church.
On point 36 Hell (and kinda on 37 Limbo) some trad EOs will agree with the trad Caths. They often accept saint Ignatius Bryanchaninov's book "Word on death" as authoritarive, it gives a summary of some trad EO views on various things about death quoting various earlier saints, church fathers, and hymns. That book says that Hell is a physical place in the depths of the Earth, and that after the Second coming, final judgement, and the resurrection - Hell will again be a physical place separate from Heaven, and the suffering in Hell will be physical, including physical flames.
Also Bryanchaninov mentions there a trad EO teaching similar to Limbo, namely that of a third place, that is neither Hell nor Heaven, which is for people who cant go to Heaven due to unbelief or sinfulness, but also are not sinful enough to deserve the sufferings of Hell.
I don't think it's even all that fringe for Orthodox to believe in the post-resurrection Second Death / Lake of Fire, as prepared for Satan and the demons and available for anyone who chooses it.
Thank you brother. Great vid
Thank you, Joshua 🌹⭐🌹
Another great video. If I might add, the difference regarding hell is actually not a difference. While Orthodox today tend to feel more comfortable with the language of hell as God's love towards a sinner, in our Orthodox Tradition we still have visions of hell as an actual place where there is a real fire burning the unrepentant.
Those in Adelaide Australia (or who want to visit), our diocese has now set up two parishes 100% in English :)
There is also a 100% English parish in ROCOR in Adelaide. Glory be to God for them all.🙏
Yes there is Father Barnabas, a incredibly loving man. Adelaide is very blessed! @@MsConnie131
If you would like another group to do. The NEW IFB is a sect that seems to be branching off of IFB.
Scott hahn is a convert. I personally do not quote him or take his advice
Seating: You can tell you are basing this all off reading Church websites. When visiting Mt Athos and Churches around Thessoniki, Greece, there were either Stadia seats or in some cases they also had chairs set up in rows just like pews. This idea that many American Orthodox Christian’s have that traditional means no sitting though is not true in most of the Orthodox world. No, they don’t have pews. They do have seating though. I have heard that in Serbia and many parts of Russia that there is far less seating available (only around outside for elderly). Friends visiting Constantinople also told me there were booth type seats in the Hagia Sofia and seating in the Churches around Constantinople.
I've been to some really old Roman Catholic churches in Quebec.
One example, no pews or kneelers for the laity, just individual chairs.
Some Western monasteries still don't have pews.
Some Western monasteries still don't have pews.
@@Ggdivhjkjl which ones? And do they not have seating at all, or just not pews?
17:48 The desire of Westerners to "reason things to the bottom" is why/how we eventually developed the Scientific Method, and progressed so far in material wealth. (Whether or not that is a Good Thing is a different question.)
Outstanding!
I did not know we did not believed hell was a place
😊😊❤ very good information. As PROTESTANT SO MUCH OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE FAITH IS CATHOLIC, WESTERN. I BELIEVE WE IN PROTESTANTISM CAN LEARN FROM OUR FAMILY IN ORTHODOXIES
Versus populum can also simply mean that the priest turns toward the people at certain points of the Divine Liturgy or Mass. This happens in the Orthodox Church. The priest mainly faces east, but at certain points he does turn to the people and then turns back.
The same applies in Latin liturgies. There are specific places in the rubrics, even in the current addition of the Roman Missal, that say "stans... versus ad populum ..." I don't remember specifically, but it is called out maybe 5 or 6 times in the post Vatican II liturgy for the priest to "face toward the people".
I hope u do a video about the indipendant Catholicism like the old catholic church(s)
There does seem to be some anecdotal evidence of Mass Ad Orientum becoming more popular in Novus Ordo parishes too
It wouldn't take much for it to become more popular, but it is certainly done in some parishes.
They often say, that book is not canonical. What makes a book canonical ?
Mass in Latin is a significantly more reverent and beautiful style while common tongue is more personal and easy to digest. As a new convert I think they are both useful even if I prefer Latin
It's only that because you don't know latin. Latin is not even the language of the scripture, it don't have any special position in religious terms - it's just the language of church administration.
@@prkp7248 The difference is more in delivery than anything else, traditional Latin is generally sung, or recited quietly and away from the congregation, while common tongue is delivered more directly to the congregation.
One difference between the Churches is that the Catholic Church sent missionaries throughout the known world such as the Americas, Africa and Asia. The Orthodox not so much.
25:18 Though it is only a title of honour and not commonplace the title Primate can be considered equivalent to Orthodox Patriarchs.
I speak much like ypu do when describing religions.being I was protestant than nobis order (studied and went to other religions) than eastern rite catholic to Latin rite and I think I'll be at home at rocor. I have always described whetever faith path I took outside myself and independent as possible. I'm really impressed you mostly spot on. To note their is oriental orthdox too. What a confusing mess
Fyi, sui iuris, is pronounced Soo/ee yoo/rees because the i represents the sound ee in the first instance and the sound jay in the second. In older Latin books, it spelled sui juris.
Important to note that the Latin Catholic Church is home to ~1.3 billion and more geographically widespread and ethnically diverse than the ~230 million Eastern Orthodox mostly confined to Russia, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Catholicism is worldwide and 5x the size of Eastern Orthodoxy. The Catholic Church is home to over 50% of Christians… Eastern Orthodoxy is home to barely 10% of Christians and half of these Christians belong to the Russian Orthodox Church (4.5%). ROCOR is home 0.02% of Christians and around the same size as the SSPX.
You failed to mention how that happened. Through the sword and colonialism. Not a very good thing to boast of. While most Orthodox countries were under Ottoman occupation in the same period.
@@HellenicLegend7 Cope. Christians believe history is providential. The accidents of history are meaningful. The majority of the world encountered the kingdom of Christ through the Catholic Church. Eastern Orthodoxy has remained inactive and on the margins.
One is in every history book that ended in tragedy and loss. The same group has many scary stories coming from within.
The other feels, smells, and sounds like the real one. It only has one issue that may be a non issue if my information is wrong on evolution in the church.
With regards to hell, I think we all can agree that it is a good place to avoid no matter how you want to describe it.
Revelation makes clear that there is a real division between the saved and the damned. They cannot be in the same place, as the visionary Disco Stu reported, for "nothing unclean may enter" the holy city.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said:
“Do not be afraid.
I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And
I hold the keys
of death and Hades. Rev 1
------
He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (And we all know, be the husband of one wife)
------
They will forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods,
1 Tim 4
That wasn't hard was it.
In the Levantine area many Arabs (as opposed to Greeks; Armenians; or other minorities) left to join foreign missionaries because they used the vernacular Arabic.
Historically, the roodscreen fulfilled a similar role in the West to that of the iconostasis.
Most adherents to catholicism and orthodoxy are not even aware of these differences. They simply beleive in christ as son of god and that he is the sacrificial lamb . Sometimes the more uneducated you childlike u are the better. Purity of heart is what christ looks for.
This is a two edge sword. You are basically saying that since most of the laity (in just about any denomination) does not know their distinctions, therefore, they don't really matter because it is childlike to be ignorant, and the Lord said to be as children in order to enter the Kingdom of God.
Christ said to be wise as serpents, and meek as lambs, however. It's a careful line. We should not be pharasaical, yet, we should not be so open minded that our brains fall out of our heads
@@George-ur8ow Agree some level of shrewdness is necessary. However, my comment was not for any denomination but confined to the subject of differences between catholics and orthodox. I beleive the laity already know that jehovas witnesses, mormons , unitarians etc.... are completely distinct to christianity.
some of us find fascination with the differences from an analytical perspective, and remember the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. a bit strange to suggest that one should be uneducated. blessings
@@Seashellsbytheseashore21 wouldnt say one should be uneducated , afterall many or even most priests have theological degrees. However, sometimes too much analysis can be counterproductive and make us miss the mark. Easter bkessings.
The use of instruments other than Organ, piano, and vocals are very controversial in the Roman Catholic church in the US. Some people would go as far to say that the use of guitar during mass is liturgical abuse.
Just as the use of the organ was outright condemned in ancient times.
I think you'll find the piano was specifically disallowed by one Pope who insisted upon the use of the organ.
Psalm 150 disagrees.
I'm Roman Catholic, and I absolutely despise the use of guitars (especially electric guitars), drums, and other rock instruments during Mass--it's like they're trying to be "hip."
@@mournblade1066
"One thing I'll say for him, Jesus is cool."
-Caiaphas, "Jesus Christ, Superstar"
The Nuncio is as or more important than the conference chair.
The desire to feel safe, or protect others, determines all human decisions.
Anyone arguing about this or that, is fundamentally about what this or that particular individual needs or wants in order to
Feel safe.
People trying to convince themself of anything else is BS
If they didn't feel safe
They wouldn't make the choices they make.
Given the Orthodox understanding of hell, a closely related understanding is that while hell is eternal because God is eternal, anyone may repent and thus, begin to experience God, not as hell, but as heaven.
Not when "time shall be no more" (as The Revelation says). Once time ceases to exist, repenting becomes impossible.
@@Ggdivhjkjl I assume you are not Orthodox? Many would not see it this way. Why? Because the overwhelming reality is "God is Love" and that God desires ALL to be saved.
@@jimbobjones5972 It's the consistent teaching of orthodoxy that there is no repentance after death
@@jukesngambits there are many who are Eastern (or non-Chalcedonian) who would disagree. One such person is David Bentley Hart:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bentley_Hart
@@jimbobjones5972DBH is not presenting an Orthodox view with his turn into Universalism
The Universe is Not a Hierarchical Pyramid of Mathematic Quantities
The Universe is a Holarchic Sphere of Consciousness Qualities Spheres ❤️ 💚 💜
I guarantee you that(Virtually) no living Orthodox Christian has ever attended a Liturgy they fully understood, even if it was conducted in their native tongue.
I’ve been an Orthodox Christian for over 20 years. If I devoted the rest of my days to studying the Divine Liturgy, I’d die barely having scratched the surface.
Also I commend the work you’re doing.
The moment where, to a former Roman Catholic now atheist, the Orthodox Church makes much more sense lol. Reason is what got me out of religion in the first place.
Yes you are quite correct in your statement that Western Christians tend to regard Eastern theology and liturgy as acceptable variations but it does not always extend in the other direction. I think is because the West desires reunion while the East for whatever reason seems to want continued separation.
The reason is that there can be no union if we don't believe the same things.
The fact that you desire a false union betrays a lot about you though, "just submit to the pope and believe whatever you want" does that sound correct to you?
@@Μπρο nice straw man, that tendency to dishonesty caricature everything is the real problem as is the tendency of the East to disagree simply for the sake of disagreeing. If the Pope were to say that 2+2 = 4 there would be Orthodox who would condemn it as heresy on the grounds that he didn't consider arithmetic modulo 3.
@@ΜπροWhy would the Orthodox be free to believe "whatever they want" if they reunited with Rome? Aren't Eastern Catholics obligated to believe the same dogmas and definitive teachings as the rest of the Catholic Church? This is an honest question.
@@raphaelportelinha1738 They are supposed to but in practice some uniates don't believe the same things.
This is not the main point though. I am just pointing out that he is trying to downplay important religious differences by saying "for whatever reason", it's not whatever reason it is the most important reasons! If you actually believe in God these things are more important than just being unified to not be meanies or whatever.
You say "This is an honest question" so I fear that I have seemed to you going full debate mode, this was not my intention God Bless you!
P.S. I wrote the entire comment and then deleted it by mistake so I had to rewrite it quickly if something doesn't make sense I can clarify
@@Μπρο Thank you for answering. May God bless you!
Latin postu be use drurting Holy Mass it say in a Constitution about Holy riturgy.
Catholic 💗✝️🙏🏻
❤
to raphaelport look below -
Humm... A lot of it and what was taught in the other two videos looks PRETTY similar to what RZ said on his video about West vs East, just more nuanced.
You can tell that this man is very learned but it's still funny to hear mispronounciations of reasonably common literary words (Such as infirm at 20:36).
people tell me i say words wrong, as well. take the word "potato." no such thing. it's a potatah. :) naked, what's that? neckid.
To st Martin of tours - Read my latest comment. To say protestant’s are Christian is to say there’s 48,000 protestant churches and that’s blasphemy because only Jesus can found a Church and that’s what his holiness and the Catholic Church are not realising or seeing.
So, then the magisterium is not required to be served and revered? Got it.
4:06
"There are only Seven Ecumenical Councils"
"It is misleading to say the orthodox have not had any further Ecumenical Councils"
LMAO, you guys can't even agree at something so important as how many Ecumenical Councils are there
Our Greek brothers are making sure you do not understand the Orthodox phronema...
Limbo is the Realm the Soul goes When Dies an Unconscious Death... like in Euthanasia
Mr.Josh can you explain how the Trinity teaching is invented by a councils agreements. And the madness of Christianity over God's identity.
There is a glaring mistake in your thumbnail. It should be “Roman Catholic” and “Orthodox Catholic” instead of what you have.
to martinoftours - protestant’s including the orthodox say with Satan WE WILL NOT SERVE the infallible Magisterium of the holy Catholic Church therefore they are anathema - outside of salvation! Only Catholic’s go to Heaven because there’s NO division in paradise
But you're disagreeing with your magisterium about Protestants and Eastern Orthodox. That they took can be saved. And specifically about the Orthodox, that they have valid sacraments. Are you disagreeing with your magisterium?
I realize you are focusing here on Roman Catholic vs. Eastern Orthodox, but what do Jews say about the Apochrypha?
Historically there were different Jewish views about most of Scripture. The Sadducees, for example were notable for rejecting everything but the Torah. The compilers of the Septuagint, on the other hand, cast a wider net and included books that later Rabbinical Jews would reject. The fact is that there was no single Jewish canon at the time of Christ and that the physical elimination of rival sects like the Sadducees at the hands of the Romans contributed to the Pharisees' ability to set a Canon for all Jews.
@@jdotoz Didn't Paul use the Septuagint? IiRC he also quotes from one of the Apocrypha (maybe Sirach/Ecclasiasticus?) in one of his letters. Which I suppose makes sense, since everything in the LXX is in Greek.
@@thelasthandbook6704 To be fair, he also quoted from pagan poetry and philosophy, so this isn't quite as strong an argument as it may seem. And as you say, the LXX provided a ready at hand Greek version of the Scriptures which would have been helpful when writing in Greek.
@@thelasthandbook6704 The NT quotes from the Hebrew some passages which are not found in the LXX as well as quoting some which are only found in the LXX. All this shows is that the NT writers knew their Scriptures.
Such an odd question… Orthodox and Catholic are concerned with what the one true church (which church obviously debated) that Jesus founded and gave authority to has to say, not what ancient Jews have to say.
17:09
St Gregory the Theologian hearing this 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Holy orthodoxy is The church Christ established and has preserved the Truth ☦️ 👑
Where's Peter?
@@jdotozthe church triumphant.
@@batrickpateman2086 The Fathers at Chalcedon recognized Leo as Peter's successor.
@@jdotoz get rid of the phillioque, stop blessing gay couples, allow priest to be ordained as married, dont give the pope immediate jurisdictions over every one...
THEN GO TELL THAT TO ALL THE BISHOPS OF ALL THE ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT HERETIC!!!
is there an actual argument for that belief or is it more of an emotional outburst?
One thing I've noticed: both love to adorn their bishops with expensive, silky clothes.
I've seen the same in protestant churches. But for non-liturgical/ritual reasons.
@@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUs I honestly wouldn't know...I haven't been to (edit to change "really any" to "a majority of") protestant churches. The only Church I've ever been a member of is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and our bishops and the apostles and prophet (Church leader) all dress the same way as any laymen do when all of us are at Church; a typical suit and tie. (The women typically wear dresses.)
@@EmilyS-gk3st my point is that the vestments used by clergy and acolytes are liturgical and have a spiritual meaning. They also last a long time. The point is not to adorn the individual priest/acolyte. But to be participating ritually in the services of the Church, even through what they are wearing. The vestments reflect those in the old testament priesthood, and also a medic, a shepherd, and a soldier.
Also, fun fact, there is a prayer that is recited prior to putting on each of the parts of the vestment of the clergy in Orthodox Church.
Eventually the churches will unite. Basically it's the same faith, the differences being political, cultural and historical.
We Orthodox hope that Heterodox will come to their senses, repent, reject their heresies and inquire with EOC. We will Baptize them and voila.!... Unity.!
It's not, though. I was Catholic and converted to Orthodoxy. It is a completely different church. I feel a freedom in Orthodoxy that I never felt in Catholicism. And a love I never felt there. Those two arise from genuine differences in theology and practice. But I pray with you that they will unite soon.
The problem is that some of the differences between Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant are of such magnitude that men and women have been willing to die for them OR to kill others for them.
They look very different to me.
@@pedroguimaraes6094 That's because the videos are pointing out the differences not the similarities. They have been united before and will be again. The Papacy allows the Church to be beyond and above national control and boundaries something highlighted by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
The Orthodox Church didn't have an emperor to call for an Ecumenical Council while the Catholic Church has the Pope for that.
one thing humans are good at: competing to see who is more wrong... :D
I can say the same about you right now, ironically
@@thieph @uncivilized4873 is simply pointing out an observation. He does not say any particular sect is right or wrong, only that there appears to be a proclivity for sects to proclaim their veracity to the detriment of those outside a stated standard of beliefs.... Are you stating he is wrong? Do you think he peremptorily presumed he is right and all else are wrong?
I recently heard an amusing yet profound statement:
"I do not believe in the god that you do not believe in..."
Namaste ~ Blessed Be ~~
@@cindiloowhoo1166 his point is useless, that was my point