Why Metal Scabbards are TERRIBLE... Or are they?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Metal scabbards seem really dumb, but they can be improved and in ONE way make a lot of sense.
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35 years or so ago I had an 1833 dragoon sabre. There was a guy that came throgh our neighborhood in a van that sharpened knives for the housewives. I asked him if he could sharpen my sword and he did.
That blade could slice a hair.
Probably made that guy's day.
Interestingly, the Russian army in the 19th century was mainly concerned with another drawback of metal scabbards - noise (mainly regarding the Caucasian war). Metal scabbards were considered ill-suited for "irregular warfare": noise isn't an issue when an entire squadron is charging across the field, but when you have half a dozen men trying to ambush a similarly sized party - you really don't want your scabbards to rattle.
And it was a big deal even officially: in the 19th and early 20th century, scabbards determined whether a weapon was considered a saber or a shashka (sabers had metal scabbards, shashkas - leather ones) and whether a thing had hand protection was irrelevant, contrary to modern definitions.
I wonder whether similar considerations contributed to the British switch back to leather scabbards in the late 19th century. After all, "irregular warfare" certainly existed in the colonies.
Probably a reason for wood and leather scabbards were so prevalent cus heavy armor plus metal scabbard equals metal banging against equals noise plus private purchase probably came to assumption that the buyer would take better care of the thing. People are less cautious with stuff they are issued over stuff they have to fork over there own money for. Also, leather industry for saddles, belts, shoes, bridles, the shell of brigandine, so flip ton of people would some in taking care of leather and wood items.
I have a friend who used to do LARP and is a master plumber who has a sheet metal folding machine. He had a foam&latex katana with a metal scabbard that fitted perfectly the shape and color of the blade. The look on people's faces when he rammed the "foam" sword neatly into the ground with a satisfying steely "scrinch" was priceless.
Horse regiments had blacksmiths, harness makers and such in their train to keep everything serviceable. You can bet the Sergent Majors inspection made sure of that.
Sergeants Major.
Platoon sergeants job actually, as he said these things were in service for a long time ,as an aside the first rifle I was issued as an infantry soldier was 25 years old still worked but well worn
@@maccrage71sergeant major😊
@gorbalsboy yup. Thought he meant the plural, that's what I get for reading too quick.
@@maccrage71 Since it's referring to the _inspection,_ it should really be "Sergeant Major's inspection."
I can honestly say I was very happy with the 1796 from windlass.
But one of the cheap plastic inserts in the sheath tore and fell apart within a week.
Would love an after market wood and leather sheath for it.
Whatever happened to the Windlass 1796 saber? Can’t get my hands one anymore
Both of my Swiss military Sabers M1867 & M1896 have a leather loop, which functions pretty much like a fingerring in earlier sideswords. Maybe such extra features on military sabers would be a good topic for a video some day?
I bought my Cold Steel 1796 Light Cavalry Saber from Atlanta Cutlery with the leather sheath to help keep it sharp. It arrived nicely sharp.
Were there any attempts to use metal reinforcements (kind of like langets on polearms) on leather and wood scabbards to increase durability?
Yes in fact there were! We see this even on some Ming era Chinese swords and on Mongolian swords, and later on Napoleonic era scabbards.
@@scholagladiatoria Exactly, this seems to be the most logical solution. I wonder why it wasn't standard? I was thinking about the reasons why armies wanted only metal and maybe it was a matter of keeping the inside of the scabbard clean? Even if you put a bloody sword or saber inside, can you easily scrub the inside of the metal scabbard, like a gun barrel (?) Wood will always absorb some dirt and it is difficult to remove it, especially from the middle of a narrow channel.
That's why scabbard of Excalibur had the magic to make the wearer invincible, the scabbard itself is harder to maintain than the sword
Troopers swords were in regular use by recruits and inexperienced troopers in training and exercises. Unless you want to reduce your numbers of trained recruits and proportion of ears on horses there were good reasons to keep cavalry swords blunted until they went on campaign.
Were they reblunted for depot training again?
I have always wondered about naval cutlasses. Which were presumably kept ready for immediate use on board ship in boarding parties etc. with neither the time nor kit to sharpen them when issuing them to sailors for use. Did they let inexperienced sailors loose training with sharpened cutlasses or do they accept a blunter edge in action?
By at least the Victorian era, they used leather-&-wood training wasters, I think usually called dussacks at the time...
@@AnimeSunglasses all the photographs of my Yeomanry predecessors show actual service swords in exercises and training right into the 1930s.
@@johnfisk811 hm... Could be they preferred to pose with the real blades, could be I'm missing a detail or two...
I'm old enough to remember the Knife Sharpener who traveled from house to house in 1950s
Not only bronze age, Gaulish Iron Age swords are also typically iron swords in an iron scabbard hung from an iron chain. They loved their iron.
Leather scabbards more or less also returned because of the theatre of war and the way they fought. I would think. Less massive line fights but more skirmish types outside of Europe, where camouflage became more important, often in more humid and hot climates where steel would be more prone to rust.
For example in the Dutch East Indies at the end of the 19th century they swapped to more jungle warfare suitable weapons, with leather scabbards. The previously used weapons and scabbards made too much noise, officers would often ditch their scabbards and just carry the swords.
In Europe, with less humid conditions the Dutch swords used, still had steel scabbards be it blued for mobilisation.
I remember reading about a British cavalry officer that, for whatever reason, was fighting with his metal scabbard. I believe it was during the Crimean war, and to be honest when all you are left with is your metal scabbard then that becomes your weapon of choice. Hopefully he was able to get a better weapon and survive the skirmish. Interesting topic, thank you.
+scholagladiatoria *Steel scabbards for arming swords and sabers had wood liners.*
Depending on the type of wood that is used in the liner will determine how it effects the edge.
Silica is the culprit.
Example ironwood will throw sparks when cutting with a chainsaw.
I wonder if a more modern solution like teflon throat protector or replaceable linings could solve the dulling effects of the scabbards.
What were Roman gladius scabbards made of? And, come to think of it, were the gladius swords edge-sharpened?
Mostly wood and leather with some metal ones once in a while.
And I'm pretty sure that the Legions sharpened their swords, since they were very good cutters even though roman training emphasized the thrust.
Just an additional note to what martins said: Gladii varied considerably in construction, design, and use. Consider the timespan (about 400 years) and vast area (the whole Mediterranean area and large parts of Europe) they were produced and used.
I think some machetes have a sheath with something that sharpens them every time the blade is drawn out.
What good is a saber if you can't rattle it? Mine came pretty sharp. It is very popular when my club has a cutting day.
Mr Easton, have you considered, or have you been asked to create a replica of the 1796 heavy cavalry sabre? For all the fans of Richard Sharpe?
You can make the scabbard strip the edge sharp with a leather liner in the throat or even whole blade
What's with the smooth section of the hilt in the langet area? That's not in any of my antiques .
Yeah that was an error on this prototype, fixed on the production version
I have on old sword that looks like a British 1821 sabre. Only, it has a 2 bar knucklebow. The only identifying mark is the proved slug. The Proved is spelled in the circular way with no other letters or symbols. Can you or someone tell me if it's real or fake? 🙏
Any swords with scabbards designed to have the scabbard use a raised part guiding the sword's fuller such that it holds the edge away from touching anything while in the scabbard?
Matt, question. Would it be possible to fit a bit of sandstone along the blade side of the scabbard interior? Maybe with oiled fabric or cloth on both ends to keep it properly lubricated?
Interesting. That would require the user to draw the sword in a particular manner in order to engage the whetstone properly.
It seems like carefully adjusting the shape and size of the lining and throat you could prevent the edge from touching the metal. Is there some reason that this is impractical?
I simply store my sharp saber in her original cardboard box. Of course, once I have the need to travel with her due to the zombie apocalypse, etc., then she'll go into the scabbard. Simple as that!😁
My Bastard Sword came with a steel throated scabbard it really grinds when I draw it, luckily I don't keep it sharp anyway 🫤
Blacksmiths profiled. Sharpeners and grinders sharpened.
I think the only real use for a metal scabbard is as a secondary weapon if you don't have one. You could use it as a blocking or bludgeoned weapon
Interesting video!
I came to the conclusion many, many years ago that a sheath/scabbard that rubs against the edge of the blade is a very badly designed piece. It isn't difficult to make them so the edge is protected--it just takes a little common sense. If, historically, many or most sheaths/scabbards do rub against the edge, I'd say many people weren't so bright.
I love my edge
just keep them in cardboard sheath when you don't plan to show them off
I wonder if a sword is more likely to become frozen to a metal scabbard in cold weather.
No, it is the reverse
👍
metal scabbards make them more fool proof in 1 area but less so in others
Damn those bot accounts!
Nice vid though, as always!
😀😀😀
Wouldnt better internal geometry fix this? Like a hollow tube like space where thetip of the edge is at any time
🗿👍
LK Chen used a wood lining on their 1860 LC saber. I was surprised to see that on a mid range sword. I wonder if their 1796 does as well.
The lk chen 1796 light cav sabre comes with a wood lined metal scabbard.
@@christopher29051987 Thanks, I was hoping so. Might get it eventually.
LKchen also makes the 1796 light cavalry saber, and its just as good as the windlass one.
Do you know if theirs has a wood liner inside the metal scabbard? I have their 1860 LC saber and it does.
@@mysticmarbles I don't know. 🥲 I don't have the cash, I've only seen skalls thoughts on sabers where he showed the monstrous distal taper.
@@mysticmarbles "Stainless Steel fittings
Stainless Steel Scabbard with wood lining
Handle core - carved walnut "
@@dashcammer4322 dang. I kinda wish I had gotten the LK instead of the Windlass, but it wasn’t out yet. The wood core is a big upgrade and I prefer stainless for fittings/scabbards anyway.
Anyone who's had a katana/tachi, even an ito, will be familiar with the occasional need to add extra material to the throat of the scabbard, tp maintain the blades friction fit that holds the sword in.
Good point about the point not needing to be super-sharp. After all the WWII British "pigsticker" bayonet had practically no edge to speak of and worked well enough.
Any idea where you can buy replacement Katana scabbards here in Europe ? I have become very skilled at repairing those of my son and other members of the school, but some are reaching a point where it becomes impossible.
@@ducthman4737 Afraid not my friend. Sorry.
@@ducthman4737 ebay, although those are for mass produced katanas
an ito, (糸) a thread? Or an iato? (居合刀)
just playing with ya! :P anything stabby remains stabby for a long-time, definitely. I was attacked with a rather poorly-maintained screwdriver once. It still stuck me!
I'm surprised all metal Scabbards didn't come with a piece of bone or wood in period times or plastic in modern times in the locket of the Scabbard to protect the edge from hitting the metal.
Some have wooden liners and softer metal liners - Mr Easton goes over the softer "German silver" which sort of achieves this. Working bone so finely would be very difficult, but I'm no bone craftsman so maybe I'm wrong!
if it's got wood inside, over time that could cause trouble. The wood could warp, expand, or any of other problems that wood faces when dealing with moisture and humidity
I thought that in the Penninsular the light cavalry had leather scabbards? And when after 1815 the British Army went back to metal there were a lot of complaints...
1-As already covered that the swords would get blunted by being drawn but also by clinking against the inside?
2-This clinking noise could give away their position if trying to sneak up on an enemy?
Cheers!
I have this sword from Windlass and the scabbard is just dreadful. There’s some kind of plastic liner inside that feels like it won’t last. It’s terribly difficult to draw the sword without marring the edge and you have to do it so gingerly. I love the sword, it’s nearly perfect, but the scabbard needs help.
Oof. I was worried you'd lost your edge, Matt, but I'm glad I was wrong.
Originaly, the difference between the Russian sabre and Shashca is the scabbard. Saber have mettal one. holds the blade down so they blunt the blade and also create noise. Shashcas scabbards are made from wood and covered by leaver. was worn as Kattana - blades up, also those scabbards do not create noise.
You could call it a difference in doctrine. A unit with a lot of shiny metal tack is aiming to intimidate, a unit who takes pains to eliminate shiny things and noise is trying to maximize the number of enemy they kill
Why didn't they put a leather lip around the mouth to prevent the steel from scraping the edge on draw?
That's kinda what I was thinking, just cover it with leather or wood on the inside. Preferably wood because leather will get sliced after a few draws and it will eventually contact the steel. Wood would be perfect.
On my Windlass 1796 Light Cavalry Saber, the blade wasn't even straight! It was pointing to the left. Not goot at all. My Cold Steel version was still much better.
And I mean, it was attached to the hilt in that way. The edge of the blade was pointing to the left, and not in the middle like it supposed to be.
Very informational and enjoyable video as always. If I were a solder if I was able or allowed I would have replaced the scabbard. Have you ever owed a leuku or a puukko? I'd love to see you do a video about Scandinavian knives.
Since it will only get progressively less sharp as it is used. You should try to get your sword as sharp as possible when it is being sharpened. Your sword doesn't need to be shaving sharp to be effective on a battlefield, but you should require it to be when freshly sharpened.
I don't know how it works in a battlefield but, in a cornfield, an excessively sharpened knife goes dull quickly.
What do you use to treat/maintain the leather of a scabbard? shoe polish?
Limmer Boot Grease - specificaly as it is lanolin based, not beeswax based, as that leads to leather cracking.
Renaissance Wax Polish - for display pieces
the other advantage of metal scabbards is they make a way cooler *schwing* sound when drawing
Hard for us to imagine the wear and tear on scabbards in period. Wearing a sword for martial classes twice a week for 2 hours is only about sixteen days of wear to a medieval person. And attending a reenactment event once a month only 12 days of medieval wear and tear. If we wore swords every day, the scabbards would wear out much faster!
Thanks for the emberleaf link, Matt. 👍
And I love how many things got connected or mentioned (especially the sword pattern change 😅) from the simple premise of the metal scabbard.
Could you show the edge? I am curious about the differences beeeecause i have some thinking about manufacturers works.. Not "bad bad" but "better". 👀 Modern knifes hav the same problem... Some kydex sheets destroy the sharpness
I'd never thoguht of metal scabbards as an experiment.
With British military sabres we're obviously talking about the peak period of empire, with a massive range of contexts and environments - some hot and arid, some hot and humid, some cold and damp, and perhaps involving exposure to salt water as well. Was there any variation of scabbards according to the parts of the globe in which the military units were serving?
Fifty years ago edged tools, including knives, did not come fully sharpened, they came ready to sharpen as the user wanted. If you bought your tool from an ironmonger, he would sharpen whatever it was for a fee. ( Some people always took their knives to the ironmonger to sharpen) The Services would have had their own Cutlers/ Armourers to do this, There is of course, the theory that officers should not be trusted with sharp things ! cutting the tops off champagne bottles must be bad for the edge...
I would speculate that most of the abrasion caused by wood or leather scabbards is probably due to grit embedded in the scabbard rather than the wood its self.
I am curious about chipping vs abrasion. Resharpening a blade is usually pretty quick if you don't have any chips to deal with. I wonder if these original steel scabbards have features intended to reduce the likelyhood of chipping the blade?
Any sword that is differentially hardened may not suffer the same effects of abrasion against wood.
The edges of differentially hardened blades are made of martensite which you could sort of say is like glass.
Not trying to be contrarian, I agree with you.
Unless you're drawing and sheathing your sword dozens of times per day, it's hard to imagine that's a source of wear that's significant compared to the actual use of the sword.
Video idea: discuss statistics of kills in duels especially rates of mutual kills, maybe also frequency of deathless duels
Is the fragility of keen hair splitting edges and wood scabbards another reason why medieval scabbards were kinda loose like for double edged swords, there is no blunt bit to press down against the inside of the scabbard. You are going to slightly damage the edge and scabbard with a tight fit no matter how you draw?
I feel like prioritizing sheath durability over sharpness is really like losing the forest for the trees when youre talking about something designed and intended for cutting
Did anyone ever make scabbards with inserts made of soft metal, like lead, to provide a bearing surface that would not blunt edges?
A lot of fantasy fiction has some number of soldiers or adventurers that sharpen their blade immediately before battle. Sometimes they talked about it being relaxing in a stressful time, but it definitely makes a bunch of sense.
You talk a lot about swords of the era, and often enough about the tretise. Did the navy have sword drill treatise, did they just swipe the army ones, or did they just say "figure it out?"
Why not increase the wall thickness of the wood (at least near the edge) so that there's space between the edge and the metal scabbard? Or remove a bit of steel near the edge so that it's just wood at that corner? It seems so simple, but if it were that easy, they would have done it, right?
where i live german silver is another name for nickel. is that what he means by german silver?
While looking at period photos & paintings of US Civil War officers I noticed that often they wore their sabers backwards/upsidedown with the edge up. I do wonder if they might have done this for the purpose of protecting their edge or if it was just convenience or to protect the horse or all 3? Idk just a thought. Lol
Those sabres had two ways to hang them. "Backwards" carried it higher and more vertically with the edge to the rear, so it stayed out of the way when you were walking about, not expecting to need it. Note it is fairly difficult to draw the sword in this position, but you aren't wracking neighbors in the knees or getting hung up in doorways if you turn.
If you're mounted or planning on needing the sword soon, you unhook it from.the belt and just let it hang, and now it hangs lower, edge down, and is easier both to wear in the saddle and to draw (whether mounted or not).
Thanks for the video! Do we know roughly how long it would have taken for a culter to sharpen the 1796 from butter knife blunt to sharp and useable?
Any idea where you can buy replacement Katana scabbards here in Europe ?
1899p wood and leather scabbard has a metal mouth with a non metallic insert where the blade edge would ride.
Would it have been possible to make the throat out of, or at least line it with, the material whetstones are made from? Essentially building in sharpening ability to the scabbard?
Wiltshire Stay-sharp :P
they are so terrible that gauls had metal scabbards
How gaulling.