Fret Levelling Files vs Fret Levelling Beams (which should you get?)
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- FRET LEVELLING! Nobody's favourite pastime... Having the right tools for the job does make things easier. What do you prefer: fret levelling files, or fret levelling beams?
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As always very helpful, I've only just started using these fretting tools on my guitars, but I never realized how much of a 'must have' they were up until now
Great video, Brad. I liked the close-ups and attention to detail that you provided. I will be having to do this on one of my guitars very shortly so the timing was great!
Glad to hear the timing was good for you!
I'm with you... I like to have both the beams and files within arms reach when I'm doing fret work. It's always amazing to me how quickly you can straighten out a problem guitar and yet most people avoid doing it because it can seem like a scary job.
Yeah, people are always Leary of messing with frets haha.
Depends on how jacked up your frets are. If its just 1 or 2 then a file set. if you have a lot then use a beam. I also saw the difficulty you were having with the allen wrench. long shaft allen wrenches with a T handle make adjusting a truss rod easy and pie brothah.
Thanks so much. I've tried to level in past with a file and had no success. I had given up but decided after watching your video to try to fix a cheap scalloped neck that I had that always gave me problems. I brought the kit and crowned the frets after leveling and it plays perfectly up and down the neck.
Thanks again for your video. Brilliant!
Glad I could help
Dude! Nice and simple and no waffle.
Thank you glad to fine u
Very well presented and easy to follow
Thanks Brad
Thanks; I’m glad you liked it.
Nice refresher Brad.
I don’t have any levelling beams I use a combination of my smooth single cut mill file and a very old short spirit level and use superglue and masking tape idea to attach 400 grit then 800 grit sandpaper. A three corner combination file with the edges ground off for crowning and fret end round over. Then sand to remove scratches and polish using Autosol chrome polish.
Sounds like a very practical setup. How do you like it?
Brad Angove
It works for me. Whether it would be quicker with the correct equipment, or any better I don’t know.
I settled on how to do my fret levelling through trial and error. I couldn’t afford levelling files or beams so I used what I thought would work. I forgot to mention that I sometimes use a diamond coated nail file on fret ends. It was the first thing I used to re-crown my frets but it took ages, the frets were really smooth though.
Thanks as always Brad for your videos and thank you for the reply.
I used to use the nail file too haha. Good choice.
I've switched to using a very long radius sanding block to level my frets. Two to three passes are all it takes. However, it works best BEFORE installing the neck.
Unfortunately my neck rest doesn’t work very well before installing the neck haha.
Ah but that doesn’t let you level under tension does it (unless you just clamp the neck down with a strap which isn’t as true versus actual strings)? It also doesn’t allow a compound radius.
What do you mean? Why would you level under tension?
@@alfaalex101 No, you can't level under string tension using a radius sanding block. I used to level with a StewMac type sting tension simulating jig, but it was more work than it was worth. I get better results faster when I level with the neck flat. You can level the frets on a compound radius fretboard by making a compound radius sanding block, however, the technique requires some practice to get it right.
Very useful. Thanks for this.
Thanks for watching.
Love the videos. I used the link for amazon. Hopefully it worked. Keep them coming.
Thank you
Great video. Thanks!
Just received my Fret Guru leveling beam, looking forward to using it
Awesome. I hope it works well for you.
I didn’t know that Lionel Messi was also a Guitar Technician :) thanks a lot for sharing this information!
Great video as always mate and 90% of the time I use a beam X2 sizes. Tools I use are notched straight edge ( that's a must) fret rocker X2 crimson guitars beams and a crowning file and a end dressing file. Buy them once and they will last you a lifetime! As you say buy from a good retailer ( as they need to be level so I don't trust a £10 straight edge off wish!!) Even high end guitar need some sort of setup and I've seen new £3.5k Gibson's with high frets!! Just do as Brad does and you won't go wrong.. then a set of radius gauges and a Hosco Groobar to cut the nut correctly....love the Tele mate!
I really do need to grab one of those groobars one of these days.
@@BradAngove yeah it does make things simple and I like simple hahaha...
Your timing is perfect because I need to do some fret leveling on one of my guitars..
Glad to hear the timing worked out.
@@BradAngove Did you notice that when you use the leveling tool with sandpaper, the middle frets are "getting more sandpaper action"? One from the part that is in your right hand and then from the part that comes behind it.
Some luthiers propose to actually make a full length leveling beam and file vertically instead of horizontally (from the low E string to the high E).
Also...if you actually play with some relief on the neck, can't you run in some problems with the 12 onwards frets running upwards due to the upbow?
Again I've seen some tutorials level those frets MORE after the first leveling action, by adding masking tape on the 12th fret and back, to kind of simulate that height difference.
If you use the beam correctly the middle frets don’t get worn down more, or at least not enough for it to make a difference. It’s an interesting theory because they’re getting morning sandpaper contact, but it’s still a straight beam so it’s not going to sand in a bow. I like to give the bottom portion of the board a little more sanding though to avoid high fret buzz with a slight relief. Although I use as little neck relief as possible in my setups.
@@BradAngove I understand. The other thing that bugs me is that most players, including myself use the slightest of neck relief. Some say that this is good for the neck to follow the way a string vibrates (more in the middle etc...the opposite of what I said it would be best to try to avoid and why you sand a bit more towards the last frets lol).
BUT, when you fret say the 10th or 15th fret, the new vibrational pattern of the string is not going to follow the slight bow the slight reilef gives. Because it will vibrate with the 10th on the example given fret being the new "nut" or starting point and the new biggest width of vibration will actually be...towards the high frets yet again lol, exactly where the slight uphill may occur due to the upbow. It kind of drives me nuts. A friend of mine insists of going perfectly flat with his necks. No upbow or back bow if possible, levelling the frets and he says he encounters no problems with his guitars. They do play quite good I must say with low action. Not better than other guitars I've setup with low action that don't exhibit fret buzz and have the slightest of relief.
Let alone that some fretboards are never perfectly flat to begin with.
Another thing is, the more tension the rod applies to the neck, I feel the neck changes and with it the sound...I find it stiffer less defined and with less sustain with more upbow but also totally loose or flat I find borderline weird feeling and kind of stringy (those findinds relative to one another). In the end, I prefer the slight relief as a happy medium to the sound as wel.
In Greece where I live, there are mostly old luthiers that insist (and players confirm it) to setup each bouzouki (relatively low tension 6 (3x2) or 8 (4x2) folk instrument with no truss rod, with specific string gauge so as to make it sound better and louder...
They do achieve low action with no buzz as well...
Nice vid. I just did my first fret job recently and surprised myself. It turned out great. But, those tools would have made it easier work. BTW Brad, Those questions I had for you last week I figured out by experimenting on my new build, so I'll get ahold when I need to. Thank as usual! Have an excellent weekend!
Did I miss some questions from you Jay? My notifications having been working properly for some reason.
@@BradAngove no. I never had that chance to ask them because I was really ill this week but I'm finally feeling better today and back on my feet. But when you're stuck in bed for a like a week you got a lot of time to use your mind to figure s*** out so I figured it out. I'm sure I will have some questions for you soon. It all good.
Both? Well that doesn't really require a video longer than 30 second. At the end of the day the answer is the same as all tools: you get the best thing you can afford. Like radiused sanding blocks, straight edges*, etc: machined aluminum/steel are what you get when you can afford it, but they can insanely expensive.
I like 8-12" machined blocks, but if you want to have different course grit surfaces, that can get very pricey. Wood let's you just change the paper, but then you have to be careful that if you're using double sided tape to stick the sandpaper to it, that is has an even surface.
You're also definitely better off spending more money on higher quality blocks of you're going to use wooden ones. Cheap ones many times aren't true to begin with, but even when they are they can warp and twist. You're also better off to get a few at a time if you can. I needed a 12" radius block. I bought an 8" long one from StewMac. I think it was $27-28 (which was about $10 less direct from them than even the cheapest StewMac one on Amazon), but came to $42 with shipping. The shipping would have been the same whether I bought 1 or 6.
If I only have a few spots that need leveling I'll definitely a go with a file. If it's a bunch then the leveling beam is the way to go.
Have you seen that new “fret kisser” tool for leveling individual high frets?
@@BradAngove No, I will check it out tho, thanks!
@@BradAngove I sent you a question in a separate post. Maybe you can give me a hand, I'm pretty proficient in leveling frets but came across a new situation today. I've got a dead note on a Les Paul and used my fret rocker to narrow down the high one and found two in a row that are rocking. My concern is, what are the chances one is high and the next one even higher? Could one actually be low, like the third one? I'm not too sure how to go about this one and I am worried taking one down could cause a mess. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
@@BradAngove Actually I have seen the fret kisser, just looked it up. It looks great but for $125 I think I'll stick to what I have. Stew Mac makes some great stuff, just a bit pricey.
If I were in your situation, where it’s a bit confusing what’s high and what’s not, I would probably just straighten the board and do a gentle full leveling with a beam.
I use a belt sander. But I have depleted uranium frets 🤘🏻
Those must be fun to polish.
Only use a file to bevel the edges and after that use sandpaper to remove the file scratches. To level I only use a beam with sandpaper no coarser than 320grit. If you leveled the fingerboard right and installed the frets properly you can start with 600 grit. Files just remove too much material too fast and leave nasty scratches that must be remove with coarse sandpaper that removes even more material.
Totally agree with you - files are a bit too harsh for leveling IMHO.
Unfortunately, if you’re not the one who installed the frets (like in this case) sometimes you have no choice but to remove a bit more material. As you could clearly see from the sharpie lines in the video.
Brad Angove That really sucks man, even with pretty bad necks I’ve never had to go lower than 320 grit. You should really get into doing your own frets. Even with just a fret hammer you could probably do better work than what was done on that neck. These days I only use the rubber side of the hammer as that doesn’t damage the frets at all. Once you get the fretwork down you should be able to just run some 600grit and 1000 grit papers over the frets then polish with steel wool. I’m going to order those fret erasers because I’ve heard really good stuff about them. That way I should be able to get by with 400 and 600grit papers and do the polishing with the fret erasers.
Excellent thank you
Level frets with a beem or radiused sanding block. Use files to crown. It is soooo easy to level frets with a beam and get 100% accurate results
Don’t use a radius block. It never works properly. Flat beams are great.
Hmm, you are apply enough pressure to the neck while using the beam that you're actually deflecting the neck and causing it to warp under the pressure throwing off the leveling work.
If the beam is long enough that’s not a concern.
How can you be certain the neck is perfectly flat when you have it under tension? That guitar station supports the top of the neck and the body weight is creating tension. I find the best way is to remove the bolt on neck to assure the flatness. Ona Neck through you can lay the body flat and hang the headstock of the table or bench.
I use the notched straight edge to make sure it’s flat. That’s how I’m sure. That’s the point of the tool.
I've found that sharpie ink gets on my fingers and then soaks into the wood on the back of the neck like a stain as soon as I touch it. Maybe just me, but I always tape off the back of the neck when I do this for that reason.
Interesting. I’ve never encountered that before.
Great to have those tools, but it's too much of an outlay for one or two guitars at home. A (new) builders spirit level, some masking tape and a strip of 600 grit does a fine job. If you're doing a number of guitars, like you are, then the outlay would be worth it.
That’s certainly a fair point. Luckily many beams aren’t all that expensive and you can true them up yourself if necessary.
my notched straight edge was made from a scrap piece of baseboard and it does the job very well! Total cost: 0.00$
I’m glad it works for you and I hope it doesn’t warp.
@@BradAngove been using it 3 years and there is no warp... I however check for warp every once in a while and I will sans it back straight if needed.
Nice tools man!
Thanks man.
Turning the truss rod always confuses me. You said turn to the "left" but left or right changes depending on which side or perspective of the guitar you are facing, no? For the way you are positioned it would be a turn towards you or away from you, there is no "left", so which way did you turn it?
It’s the same as any screw or bolt (other than the rare left hand thread types). Counter clockwise to loosen.
Thanks for putting this video together. I'm going to give this a shot on one of my guitars this weekend. Help me understand something, please. You adjusted the truss rod with the strings off to make sure the neck was straight while you leveled the frets. Am I right in assuming that when you eventually put the strings back on you will have to adjust the truss rod again? Beautiful guitar, btw.
When the strings go back on it will introduce tension and create some curve. I’ll have the check the action at that point to decide if it needs a truss rod adjustment, but I often find that it doesn’t.
Very nice and informative video! I have an inexpensive Stratocaster copy that have some uneven frets. Would you still recommend a long beam? I'm a total noob about this fret leveling, although I know how to setup a guitar. I can only find those short level beams online. Is that sufficient enough? The cheapo strat only has some few uneven frets.
I also saw that you were using a fret rocker, will a regular string action height ruler do the same to check the uneven frets?
Thanks in advance for your knowledge! 😃
I will have to do this to my Tele Kit guitar as well soon so this was great timing. After watching this I guess I learned I shouldn't just get out my Bosche Grinder and start hitting the board? Lol.. I have some of these tools, now I know what they each do lol.
Haha well, if you do take a grinder to the board, make sure you video it!
@@BradAngove lol, no there will be no witnesses LOL.
what do you do if you're working with an old guitar without truss rod and it isn't completely straight, almost straight, but not completely?
I would probably clamp it straight if it were me, but there is another leveling system out there built to work on a neck that has relief. I think it may actually be made with a thin piece of metal attached to a truss rod.
A radius block will give you uneven edges.....the bass and treble "E" string fret area's will be uneven.
Don't take my word....try it and see. This came from a master luthiar. I've proved it to myself numerous times. You can get away with a few swipes but if you do a major level the edges will not be level.
I think using a file first is a great idea.....you can check the frets with a rocker and get the bad frets locally to get them close (3 or 4 fret areas...just the very high spots (3 to 5 thousandths))....not the frets that are only 1 or 2 thousandths high......this reduces the amount of metal you remove on the whole neck.....then do the whole neck with the file...then the sanding beam.
Yes, I never use a radius block for levelling. It always takes too much off at the outside strings.
When you say do the whole neck with a file, are you referring to a flat file like the one he's using? In every video I've seen they recommend using a flat beam to sand but it never made sense to me since I don't want to destroy the radius of the frets. Using a flat file seems like it would leave angles though. I'm not sure what route to take now. It seems a radius block would make the most sense. Do they have slightly curved smaller files? I'm torn on what equipment to order since I want to do this all myself. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!
@@graphicartdude
You will preserve the radius if you slowly move the flat sanding beam back and forth across the neck. There are plenty of video's online of this.
High frets are going to be the hardest part of learning to refret and level. (if the frets are too high you may want to pull the fret clean the slot and put another in first.) Do only the high spots over the whole neck with the short flat file.....I didn't word the last post right. Only the high spots with a short flat file....maybe 5 or 6 inches....you're only hitting 4 or so frets.
Concentrate on getting the fingerboard wood perfectly level before installing the frets and you'll have less problems with high frets....you'll always have some.
It took me years to figure out you must deal with the few high frets with a small beam first before using a big beam. If you initially use a big beam you will grind a lot of material off all the frets. Get the frets below .036 and it's a mess. They do not play well the lower you get from .036.
Get the high frets dealt with first....the big beam will tilt back and forth continually making the frets unlevel in different spots if you don't deal with the high frets first.
If you're just leveling frets and it played well at one time you need to check for a popped up fret first. The link below talks about how to glue in frets I believe.....I glue all my frets in.....it keeps them in place forever and isn't hard to remove them on a refret....need a good soldiering iron. 75 to 150 watts.
This guy talks about using a radius block in reference to radiusing the fingerboard. This is a very good website. Click below.
www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Frets/00028Refret/00028refret01.html
I've tried it and you will get uneven edges doing the fingerboard or frets with a radius block. You can do a quicky with a few swipes but I wouldn't grind on the frets with a radius block. A level of less then .001 to clean up frets may be okay. I use a long beam even for that.
If you like a super low action then good luck......super level frets and low actions are the two things that will make you pull your hair out when you're learning. Another thing is capoing. To me a luthiar isn't a master unless he can level the frets so you can capo up the neck to at least the 7th fret without buzzes. When you start doing this, in time, you will hear buzzes you didn't know existed.
@@cugir321 Wow, thank you! You mentioned a couple things I wasn't aware of (ex: the capo trick). I just took notes of all of your mentions and perused the frets.com article and site you referenced. There are a couple of things I'm still uncertain about and wanted to get clarification on if you don't mind:
1) In the beginning of your comment you mentioned maintaining the fret radius by moving the flat sanding beam back and forth across the neck. Do you mean running the beam across the neck (as in E string to E string) or down the neck vertically (ex: from headstock to bridge)?
2) I'm not exactly sure when to use the 5-6" file and when to use a small sanding beam. Lets say I have 5 high frets scattered along the fretboard. Should I use the file to get them lower and then use a small sanding beam to finish leveling them, and then follow up with the large sanding beam to make sure everything is then level?
3) To maintain the fret radius (curve) I assume I do that after all of my frets are leveled. In other words go back through and use either the hand file or a small sanding beam on the outer edges of the frets?
I watched a few videos and they don't really cover the keeping of contour well, or there are conflicting arguments. Some say just use a sanding beam (which I don't want to do because I want to maintain the curve). Some (like in this video) seem to use only the hand file for leveling and contouring. And the Frets.com article kind of skips a lot of this.
Sorry for my being a bit slow here. I just want to make sure I do this right. I have a couple of guitars that need fret leveling but I'd rather learn how to do this myself instead of paying $300 to have a tech do so. Thanks for any further clarification you can provide.I really appreciate your advice already shared, so if you don't have the time to add more I understand.
@@graphicartdude For the long sanding beam...Move it... headstock to bridge a few times then move over an inch or so. Keep working your way over the frets.
For the high frets...You can use a small file or small sanding beam with sand paper (I use a 1" x 1" piece of rosewood I bought....trued up the edge)......A file will cut the extra metal off quicker for the high spots.
No....you don't have to worry about the edges with a sanding beam. The small file just knocks down the few high spots them go to the large sanding beam....mark the frets and sand.
I hate to say it but save your good guitars for after a couple trys......get a few cheapo's to learn with. Pawn shops or craigs list.
The key is don't go crazy filing.....you can put a piece of metal across two frets and slide feeler gauges under the metal....this will give you approximate height of frets.....
The cheaper guitars use medium frets.....they are about .040 usually.....that doesn't leave you much to file off. Occasionally the mediums are .045 to .047 for a new guitar.
Ideally, straighten the neck with the truss rod and leave the guitar for a few hours as the neck will continue moving. Don't start levelling until the neck is straight and not moving.
That’s why you will have seen me applying pressure to the neck with my hands after each truss rod adjustment. To get all that moving out of the way at the beginning.
I never understand the using of a beam since it seems like it will flatten a curved radius of the neck. Won't the flat file you're running 3 passes with leave angles? I guess I'm confused on why a radius beam won't work better if you keep checking your work. And aren't all necks different radiuses? So confusing with the conflicting info in each video I watch. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!
Sounds like a topic that may warrant a video. I will put it on the list for the near future, because you raise some points that I think confuse a lot of people.
I like the beam personally
Good choice.
Quick question for you, my fret rocker is showing 2 high frets right next to each other. Of all the guitars I've fret leveled this is the first time this has happened. They are properly seated and the notes are clearly buzzing but I'm concerned I may be getting a false positive on one of the frets. Could this be the case or do I just have one high one and one really high one?
If you had one really high one, the one next to it would read low. Are you using a fret rocker or a straight edge?
@@BradAngove fret rocker. I'm getting rocking on the 12th and 13th fret.
@@BradAngove to be more clear, when I use the fret rocker over frets 10,11,12 and 13,14,15 I get no rock. Over 11,12,13 and 12,13,14 I'm getting rocking. So its telling me 12 and 13 is high. I just find it strange. Seems like if 12 is high, when I check over 12,13,14 it should not rock. The note at 11 is dead, 12 buzzes and 13 is clear as a bell.
Sounds like 13 is high and 11 might be low.
@@BradAngove Thank you.
It's a shame these are short videos brad as your just getting into them they Finnish so frustrating
You would prefer longer ones? That’s very interesting. I also get many complaints about my videos being too long haha.
@@BradAngove should put to a vote brad to me it's like reading a book getting to the best bit then saying that's it and put the book down till tomorrow 😊
Do you have a recommendation for replacement strips of sandpaper?
I use the masking tape and superglue trick or double sided tape to attach new paper, but you can get the adhesive stuff at a lot of auto paint shops.
Hey Brad, I recently bought a solo EXK kit and I have a stupid question for you. Solo said I should contact you about this. As I said I bought a Solo EXK Kit and it has a poly resin coating on it, would I need to wood grain fill it? Not sure so I thought I would ask the Pro.
Very unlikely that you would need to fill it. Give it a light sanding at 320 grit and I bet it will feel nice and smooth.
@@BradAngove Great thanks for the help. Ill let you knolw how it comes out
You said that you don't like radius blocks to level frets. Why is that? Thanks!
They are radiused for the board and the frets have a slightly larger radius than the board, so those blocks will always sand the ends of the frets down more than the middle.
@@BradAngove well that makes complete sense. The radius of the tip of the frets should be the radius of the fretboard plus the height of the fret, assuming that the bottom of the fret follows the radius of the fretboard. However, since the difference of the two radii is lower that 1%, we should be able to assume it negligible - just thinking out loud here. I wonder how much smaller of an error we can achieve with a leveling beam
@@BradAngove sorry for needing out like that on your videos. I just can't help it for some reason
That’s fair. And to each their own of course. I don’t like to take excess off the edges of my frets because it increases the chances of the string slipping off the side of the board in some circumstances.
Yep - beam all the way for me - mine is a solid chunk of machined aluminum which requires no pressure at all - the weight alone does all the work!
Oh, very nice. A good piece of billet would work great for that as long as you don’t need to lug it around haha.
Hey brad (or who ever else) I have started sanding both the front and back of my flame maple body (180 the 220 sandpaper), should I use some spackling paste to grain fill or what?
Don’t do that in the flamed maple part. It’s will ruin it. What’s the rest made of?
It's weird, it looks to have a mahogany strip and the rest is I think basswood,
I was considering purchasing the Mohawk grain filler and solvent
(M6084206)
Also on another note, I wanted to dye the flame maple a light gray. Any ideas what I should use to get such a color (I've only seen primary color dyes)
Mahogany should definitely be grain filled. Just a standard water based filler is usually adequate.
There are grey stains out there. They’ve got more opacity to them than most stains though.
Ooh... "Purview"... Brad's becime a lawyer. :-D
Just kidding. Great video, as usual.
Can you spend a minute in the next video to explain why you don't like radiused blocks, or point me to an old video where you already explained it? Logic wiuld seem to indicate a radiused block wiuld take the guess work out of respecting the fret board radius, so there's something I don't know about them to refute that logic.
Thanks!
I wouldn’t necessarily say I don’t like radius blocks (hopefully I didn’t say that in the video haha), I don’t mind them, I just prefer these other options. For radius blocks you need to have one for each radius, you can still mess up the frets a bit if you don’t apply even pressure, and they can’t be used on compound radius boards at all.
@@BradAngove Perfect, thanks. I supposed you said they aren't your preference, and I badly paraphrased. Now I understand ahy you feel that way, and it makes sense. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
There’s no need to remove the nut....
Love the channel. A bit off topic for this post but perhaps you, someone can help. I've got a kit telecaster with a thin flamed maple veneer that i'm going to stain with 'stunning stains' but I don't want to add the pick guard. However it has already been drilled for the pick guard screws. Is it possible to fill these in such a way that they will take the stain or, like one of the other videos, should I go buy some coloured crayons?
You can tint the filler with some of the stain if they’re the same base type (both water based for example).
Brad can i use this technique on a compound radius? 12"-16".
Yes, you just need to adjust the angle that you level at.