Hey!!! I am listening “ and your private Is on, when you want to have it” thanks for sharing this post, is helpful for the community . Very helpful,interesting channel guys!!! Keep going please!
I have in my long black book, many many clowns that do escenario, and those who do nuevo, and those who do role reversal. So in some communities (that I avoid to patronize) I am blacklisted too.
Very interesting topic guys :) Probably everybody have their little black book - whether they admit it or not. For a long time, I was more like Derek, holding some 'tango grudges' against a couple of people that slighted me in not so nice ways when I was a beginner. To be clear: I have been rejected or ignored hundred of times (and will keep happening, for sure), but those never bothered me. I'm very appreciative when somebody that didn't want to dance with me before, one day they change their mind and decide they want to give me a chance. However, the ones that got in my little black book were specially arrogant and snobby in their rejections. However, I'm convinced that grudges are like little stones that you put yourself in your own shoe. I remembered that tango is my happy space, and I do the best I can to keep it free from drama and bad feelings. So I decided to let those grudges go, and I cleared up my black book. Still, there is very little chance that I would ever dance with those people anyway, because the issue is different now: I dance most of the time with my girlfriend, and I have very limited number of tandas for others. So when I choose to dance with others, there is a priority list: good friends, most compatible followers, new people once in a while. So there's no black book anymore, but there is a priority list... and a couple of people are at the very bottom of that list :D As for the reverse question "whose black book am I in?", I'm sure my name must be in quite a few of them :D Like Robert, I can be very oblivious sometimes, and people may mistake that for bad attitude. You may be standing next to me in line for the snacks, and I don't see you because my mind maybe is thinking about the next Argentina game in Copa America. It happened all my life, and it will only get worse with time lol :D And of course, I'm sure many people just don't like my dancing. But oh well - such is life.
@@guillermoblando9222 I’ve only black listed followers who’ve abused the relationship of being a beginner with their common knowledge of progressing faster than leaders that have started tango around the same time. They get so hot headed they look down on leaders like myself who are going through the greater challenge of learning to lead, and I get passed off when certain followers feel like they’ve blown past me. Now, after over 10 years, those followers have reached a ceiling. While leading has continued to be challenge, as a result benefiting my skill level as a leader in the long run.
Yeah in general my rule is, if someone has said no to me twice at the practica or milonga, I got the message. Now if you want to dance with me, you ask me.
One way is to tell all those calling you, that tonight I’m going to dance with some of the girls I have not danced with in a while. Another way is to split a tanda of 3 tangoes between two and let them know it is what you’re doing. I know it is very untraditional but in certain milonga it is possible. All said with love and reaoect❤
I don't have this kinda book. But, we all definitely have a list! In my case, on top of the list, followers who are actually good at dancing and act nice to me. On the bottom of the list, followers who didn't act that nice & rejected me a lot. Most of the times, I don't dance with the ones who are in the bottom of the list, cause I always go home early.
There is a well known dancer, who danced with me once in 2011, when I was brought to a milonga in Laura’s small dance studio in Glendale. I came in with two friends, and had no idea, what I was doing. I didn’t even know the basic step. That well known dancer danced with me once, and never danced with me again. I see him quite often in milongas - he says hi to me, and that’s it. Doesn’t he think that I’ve learned something in 13 years by taking hundreds and hundreds of classes?… There were people in that milonga, who were very kind and patient with me. I still remember that, and pay it forward.
Some people are selfish. Some people are oblivious. There are times that I've been oblivious to the needs of friends. There are times I've been selfish. I appreciate people talking to me and airing grievances. But that doesn't work with everybody.
Pretty much all the partners that you learned to dance with as a beginner. We have wrestled each other, shouted, and stepped on each other quite literarily. For better or worse, the ladies that you learned to dance with will never look at you as an equal or worthy and will always look up to the more experienced dancers. Eventually you become that experienced dancer. As in tango, as in life.
No matter how high they are in my black book, if they approach me from a place of sincerity, not because I'm sitting at the high table at milongas (never going to do that!) or gained a reputation as a DJ, I'll give them a chance. (:
Depends on the infraction, no? Like drinking alcohol in my car while I'm driving and refusing to stop after I told them it's illegal is something I won't forgive regardless of how sincere they are.
Answering your request. (Oops, this will be a bit long, sorry !) Dear Derek and Rob / Rob and Derek. of course we have some kind of conscious or unconscious "Black Book" ! And one had better have it. One is not Bob the Builder to go around fixing people with whom we have no connection, or have been hurt, ignored, assaulted, made the object of unfair criticism, and a long etcetera.Of course there are levels of seriousness. Look, I am 75 years old, I started in 1952, born in a family with illustrious tango dancers in the area where Tango was born, in Buenos Aires. My mother is 98, alive, still dancing, the only three-time winner of the gold medal at the "Torneos bonaerenses"... and she has her Black Book! And my cousins, and uncles, and grandparents, and my godmother Carmencita Calderón, Cachafaz's partner, Tango legend... with her black book, somehow. But there would be a lot to talk about. But I wanted to tell you that we are very fond of you, you are really very interesting and your work is transcendent. We are the National Tango Academy of Austria, reated by and belonging to the Academia Nacional del Tango de la República Argentina, which reports to the Presidency of the Nation on Tango Activities around the world, and we are at your disposal to help you with whatever you need. Just let us know how to contact us. Best regards. Greetings from Salzburg, Austria. Carlos "El Tordo".
@@laenciclopediadeltango3123 wow such an incredible and unique journey. So cool to hear how closely connected you are to Tango in practically every way. Must be cool to be around such powerful influences. Thank you for sharing such an intricate and eloquent response. To have a family especially a godmother with so much Tango history is awesome. There must be some pressure to carry the family traditions etc but I guess that comes with a majority of families. Appreciate your kind words and thanks for the encouragement
@@LeftFootRightFootTango Many thanks to you, I'm glad if I can be of service, besides, it's my obligation. You are right about that pressure... although it does not come to me from the family but from the general situation of the Tango Culture (dance is only one of its aspects), which is permanently at risk of being distorted, cheapened, wrongly understood... One of the "secrets" of Tango that gave it its incredible strength in the society that generated it, were the motivations of the men of that society, which now are NOT the same. Thank you. A big hug. If we can help you just write me. Carlos
@@bertle615 To try to answer you better, I will transcribe the "Essences of Tango" of Maestro Horacio Ferrer, poet and lyricist of Astor Piazzolla, creator of the National Tango Academy of Argentina and co-creator of ours, in Austria: You'll see where I'm going ...-You asked a tremendous question! As he describes: "Essence is the proper and necessary nature by which each being or thing is what it is, plus the set of its constituent characters". "The essence of Tango is not one, but several: cultural, social, temperamental, aesthetic, expressive, artistic, temporal, religious and political. The cultural essence of Tango is to be Latin, South American, Rioplatense and citizen. The metaphysical essence of Tango is to be independent of each and every circumstance of its history in order to have life and free existence. The temperamental essence of Tango is to be compadrito (the compadrito was the commoner of the cities, of the marginality of the suburbs.), self-absorbed, individualistic, pilgrim, nochero (fond of the night, who lives in the night) , arrabalero (from the suburbs), and bohemian. The social essence of Tango is to be popular - for being of the people - and for its public seduction in all levels of society -, universal and congregator of small groups.. The aesthetic essence of Tango is to be avant-garde, romantic, baroque, devotee of the forms, devotee of other aesthetics, and plural of styles. The expressive essence of Tango is to be confidential, more interior than exterior, with its nuanced expression of intensities. The artistic essence of Tango is to be theatrical, musical, poetic, danceable and singable.. The temporal essence of Tango is to happen with its content, whatever it may be, alive in the now in which it is interpreted.. The political essence is to be an idealist and free dreamer of just utopias.. The essence of mysticism and religious faith is to be a Christian.« These essences were typical of the idiosyncrasy of the people of those times of the beginning of Tango, and that gave it its identity, among many others. To recover Tango as it really is, in all its Miracle, it is necessary to help those who begin to love it, to understand these essences.
I have to say, I expected the "dirty little secret" to be about those who keep the *other* kind of "little black book." Not a blacklist of people you never interact with, but a book of contact information for people to call at 3am when you're drunk and horny. On the actual topic, I don't think I have any tango grudges. I can think of two women who I won't attempt to dance with because, the one time I danced with them, they pretty clearly seemed to not enjoy it. There's also one I avoid because she has bad history with a friend of mine, and I don't want to risk hurting that friend by associating with her. Other than that, I'll dance with pretty much anyone who's interested. On the new segment: First off, please remember that internet media is forever. People aren't only going to watch your videos the day they drop, but also a month, a year, even a decade later, so, if you're going to do a news segment, please avoid current events or similar topics that will no longer be meaningful to future viewers. The news topic in this episode is evergreen, so I'm not complaining about that, just saying that something like "who will win the Mundial next week?" would be a bad choice. As for Fernanda's post, I agree with her completely, but I think you guys lost the plot a little when you started talking about elite invitation-only events and starting people off with "razzle-dazzle" and then getting more "traditional" as they get better and become "hardcore". Fernanda's point, as I understand it, was that the close, intimate tango and flashy, noisy nightclubs are two fundamentally different experiences. As such, they appeal to different types of people. If tango had been presented to me as a nightclub-style experience, I would have walked away from it 30 years ago, because I don't enjoy that environment and never have, except in very small doses. I would not have lasted with tango long enough to become "hardcore" and get funneled into the "elite" events where things were more traditional and left room for introspection or a quiet connection with my partner. This is how to dance tango: our breath melding, our eyes closing, the better to listen to the violins telling the bandoneón why Malena has not sung since that one night. - Así se baila el tango, as translated on poesiadegotan.com
I guess my perspective comes more from how i came upon tango. I started with more of a nuevo side listening go alternative music and slowly went from crazy extreme colgadas to a rather respectful simple walking with a few turns. I would say that LA isn't known for being very introspective. But I am more of a person who believes we needs tons of options to fill every niche possible. As people evolve, they choose different niches to suit their needs.
Yes I agree everyone probably has a tango black list. My list has very few "lifers" since most are not on it due to personal non tango reasons. My black list is more who I don't try to cabaceo, and is based on my perception of their desire to dance with me, unless they are physically painful to dance with. Obviously a hard unqualified rejection gains an instant entry😅
Well there was someone once when I was learning. Then, recently (years later), she came over and asked me for a dance. Hmmm, last leader standing? OK, let's move on.
What about… more small business? What about the experience dancers share one tanda with not to experience dancers? What about talk more about what you experience in the tango to random people who don’t know what tango is or they think tango is the rose in the mouth?
@@fernandaghibecauseofmytang4507 I think having a tanda at every milonga where people find someone new for each song definitely can be helpful. Some milongas have an icebreaker tanda and I have seen it work successfully at bigger events like marathons. Definitely
I feel like some my most authentic tandas are with new followers. This is a privilege I have as a leader. Most of the time I see intermediate level leaders (possibly very experienced and respected in community and possibly using terms like advanced or expert to describe themselves) "teaching" moves they are not leading very well and usually with no attention to the music. This does not look like it would be appealing to me if I was a follower. I think there is not a very good community level understanding of tango. Most of the tango dancers who think they are beyond beginner level are probably not for that very reason. I don't think elitism is the answer. Participants end up pursuing status and promoting themselves as opposed to pursuing authenticity. Participants with status shut out others who are a threat to that status. Normal people can figure this out rather fast, and they figure out they don't want to be part of a cult. The pursuit of sharing good tango is the answer.
My perspective may be a bit jaded. When I see great dancers, men and women, share tango with others, I generally see people who then think that they're amazing because they got to dance with a good dancer. This sometimes leads to people not taking classes or practicing and being entitled to dances because they paid their admission. I also found the inverse to be true. When we had house parties and invited our accomplished peers, it seemed that people were more willing to put in the effort to be better dancers in hopes to get an invitation.
I have people bringing politics in tango. Once they know that I stand for humanity and against genocide, they decided not to allow me to cabeceo them. Talk about that in your future episodes.
Bring more people to tango, hmm, for what and at which price? Does not tango have this own unique feature to magnetise people without help? I think it does. If tango magic is not enough on its own, so the external support will not work as well.
Derek, the pettiness is problematic in LA. You yourself are a mirror image of LA culture by playing the same game like everyone else despite everyone's disgust in it. Its not just about inviting people to dance. Its about which group of friends and clique you jive with and moving up on the social ladder. I don't blame you or Robert, it is just the shallow nature of LA you guys have to live with.
Honestly I don't know a group that doesn't jive well with derek and I've seen him dance with people that almost nobody would touch. Just because somebody jives with the "cool kids" doesn't mean they act like snob. Sometimes what we see is only a fraction of the whole. As for pettiness, I'm sure everybody has their own little petty behavior. I don't think I'm above it myself. But I think it's good to admit to it as many people wouldn't. Like I know I'm passive aggressive. Not something I'm proud of, but I'm honest about it.
@@bertle615 The point that I'm making is that most of us who accept this reality is playing the same game to greater or lesser degree which is why a lot of people can sympathize your guys' black book commentary. Nobody is telling you that you are wrong because a lot of us are doing the same thing. Think about how there are actual people who are really hurt by this. Not everyone has built up a defense mechanism to shrug off unkind people, than laugh about it and perhaps one day make it into a podcast commentary.
@@tkurosaka probably not, pettiness and cliquishness exist almost everywhere. But LA has factors that makes it worse than other places. It is a mega city that is dominated by media and entertainment, that alone describes the type of personalities people are influenced by.
Hey!!! I am listening “ and your private Is on, when you want to have it” thanks for sharing this post, is helpful for the community . Very helpful,interesting channel guys!!! Keep going please!
Amazing!!!! Haha thanks for the support and yes one day I will redeem that private lesson 😊
I have in my long black book, many many clowns that do escenario, and those who do nuevo, and those who do role reversal. So in some communities (that I avoid to patronize) I am blacklisted too.
Everyone complains about a black book or black list, but everyone has their own. The entries are there for various reasons.
Very interesting topic guys :) Probably everybody have their little black book - whether they admit it or not. For a long time, I was more like Derek, holding some 'tango grudges' against a couple of people that slighted me in not so nice ways when I was a beginner. To be clear: I have been rejected or ignored hundred of times (and will keep happening, for sure), but those never bothered me. I'm very appreciative when somebody that didn't want to dance with me before, one day they change their mind and decide they want to give me a chance. However, the ones that got in my little black book were specially arrogant and snobby in their rejections.
However, I'm convinced that grudges are like little stones that you put yourself in your own shoe. I remembered that tango is my happy space, and I do the best I can to keep it free from drama and bad feelings. So I decided to let those grudges go, and I cleared up my black book. Still, there is very little chance that I would ever dance with those people anyway, because the issue is different now: I dance most of the time with my girlfriend, and I have very limited number of tandas for others. So when I choose to dance with others, there is a priority list: good friends, most compatible followers, new people once in a while. So there's no black book anymore, but there is a priority list... and a couple of people are at the very bottom of that list :D
As for the reverse question "whose black book am I in?", I'm sure my name must be in quite a few of them :D Like Robert, I can be very oblivious sometimes, and people may mistake that for bad attitude. You may be standing next to me in line for the snacks, and I don't see you because my mind maybe is thinking about the next Argentina game in Copa America. It happened all my life, and it will only get worse with time lol :D And of course, I'm sure many people just don't like my dancing. But oh well - such is life.
@@guillermoblando9222 I’ve only black listed followers who’ve abused the relationship of being a beginner with their common knowledge of progressing faster than leaders that have started tango around the same time. They get so hot headed they look down on leaders like myself who are going through the greater challenge of learning to lead, and I get passed off when certain followers feel like they’ve blown past me. Now, after over 10 years, those followers have reached a ceiling. While leading has continued to be challenge, as a result benefiting my skill level as a leader in the long run.
Yeah in general my rule is, if someone has said no to me twice at the practica or milonga, I got the message. Now if you want to dance with me, you ask me.
One way is to tell all those calling you, that tonight I’m going to dance with some of the girls I have not danced with in a while. Another way is to split a tanda of 3 tangoes between two and let them know it is what you’re doing. I know it is very untraditional but in certain milonga it is possible.
All said with love and reaoect❤
I don't have this kinda book. But, we all definitely have a list! In my case, on top of the list, followers who are actually good at dancing and act nice to me. On the bottom of the list, followers who didn't act that nice & rejected me a lot. Most of the times, I don't dance with the ones who are in the bottom of the list, cause I always go home early.
Cool microphones btw
There is a well known dancer, who danced with me once in 2011, when I was brought to a milonga in Laura’s small dance studio in Glendale. I came in with two friends, and had no idea, what I was doing. I didn’t even know the basic step. That well known dancer danced with me once, and never danced with me again. I see him quite often in milongas - he says hi to me, and that’s it. Doesn’t he think that I’ve learned something in 13 years by taking hundreds and hundreds of classes?… There were people in that milonga, who were very kind and patient with me. I still remember that, and pay it forward.
Some people are selfish. Some people are oblivious.
There are times that I've been oblivious to the needs of friends. There are times I've been selfish.
I appreciate people talking to me and airing grievances. But that doesn't work with everybody.
Thank you for all the insight !
Pretty much all the partners that you learned to dance with as a beginner. We have wrestled each other, shouted, and stepped on each other quite literarily. For better or worse, the ladies that you learned to dance with will never look at you as an equal or worthy and will always look up to the more experienced dancers. Eventually you become that experienced dancer. As in tango, as in life.
people who have rejected me at practicas (with bad excuses) when i was a beginner are the only ppl in my black book
Good episode
No matter how high they are in my black book, if they approach me from a place of sincerity, not because I'm sitting at the high table at milongas (never going to do that!) or gained a reputation as a DJ, I'll give them a chance. (:
Depends on the infraction, no? Like drinking alcohol in my car while I'm driving and refusing to stop after I told them it's illegal is something I won't forgive regardless of how sincere they are.
Answering your request. (Oops, this will be a bit long, sorry !) Dear Derek and Rob / Rob and Derek. of course we have some kind of conscious or unconscious "Black Book" ! And one had better have it. One is not Bob the Builder to go around fixing people with whom we have no connection, or have been hurt, ignored, assaulted, made the object of unfair criticism, and a long etcetera.Of course there are levels of seriousness. Look, I am 75 years old, I started in 1952, born in a family with illustrious tango dancers in the area where Tango was born, in Buenos Aires. My mother is 98, alive, still dancing, the only three-time winner of the gold medal at the "Torneos bonaerenses"... and she has her Black Book! And my cousins, and uncles, and grandparents, and my godmother Carmencita Calderón, Cachafaz's partner, Tango legend... with her black book, somehow. But there would be a lot to talk about. But I wanted to tell you that we are very fond of you, you are really very interesting and your work is transcendent. We are the National Tango Academy of Austria, reated by and belonging to the Academia Nacional del Tango de la República Argentina, which reports to the Presidency of the Nation on Tango Activities around the world, and we are at your disposal to help you with whatever you need. Just let us know how to contact us. Best regards. Greetings from Salzburg, Austria. Carlos "El Tordo".
@@laenciclopediadeltango3123 wow such an incredible and unique journey. So cool to hear how closely connected you are to Tango in practically every way. Must be cool to be around such powerful influences.
Thank you for sharing such an intricate and eloquent response. To have a family especially a godmother with so much Tango history is awesome. There must be some pressure to carry the family traditions etc but I guess that comes with a majority of families.
Appreciate your kind words and thanks for the encouragement
@@LeftFootRightFootTango Many thanks to you, I'm glad if I can be of service, besides, it's my obligation. You are right about that pressure... although it does not come to me from the family but from the general situation of the Tango Culture (dance is only one of its aspects), which is permanently at risk of being distorted, cheapened, wrongly understood... One of the "secrets" of Tango that gave it its incredible strength in the society that generated it, were the motivations of the men of that society, which now are NOT the same. Thank you. A big hug. If we can help you just write me. Carlos
@laenciclopediadeltango3123 that's awesome. What is one thing you wish everybody understood so that tango can both grow and maintain its identity?
@@bertle615 To try to answer you better, I will transcribe the "Essences of Tango" of Maestro Horacio Ferrer, poet and lyricist of Astor Piazzolla, creator of the National Tango Academy of Argentina and co-creator of ours, in Austria: You'll see where I'm going
...-You asked a tremendous question!
As he describes: "Essence is the proper and necessary nature by which each being or thing is what it is, plus the set of its constituent characters".
"The essence of Tango is not one, but several: cultural, social, temperamental, aesthetic, expressive, artistic, temporal, religious and political.
The cultural essence of Tango is to be Latin, South American, Rioplatense and citizen. The metaphysical essence of Tango is to be independent of each and every circumstance of its history in order to have life and free existence. The temperamental essence of Tango is to be compadrito (the compadrito was the commoner of the cities, of the marginality of the suburbs.), self-absorbed, individualistic, pilgrim, nochero (fond of the night, who lives in the night) , arrabalero (from the suburbs), and bohemian.
The social essence of Tango is to be popular - for being of the people - and for its public seduction in all levels of society -, universal and congregator of small groups.. The aesthetic essence of Tango is to be avant-garde, romantic, baroque, devotee of the forms, devotee of other aesthetics, and plural of styles. The expressive essence of Tango is to be confidential, more interior than exterior, with its nuanced expression of intensities.
The artistic essence of Tango is to be theatrical, musical, poetic, danceable and singable.. The temporal essence of Tango is to happen with its content, whatever it may be, alive in the now in which it is interpreted.. The political essence is to be an idealist and free dreamer of just utopias.. The essence of mysticism and religious faith is to be a Christian.«
These essences were typical of the idiosyncrasy of the people of those times of the beginning of Tango, and that gave it its identity, among many others. To recover Tango as it really is, in all its Miracle, it is necessary to help those who begin to love it, to understand these essences.
I have to say, I expected the "dirty little secret" to be about those who keep the *other* kind of "little black book." Not a blacklist of people you never interact with, but a book of contact information for people to call at 3am when you're drunk and horny.
On the actual topic, I don't think I have any tango grudges. I can think of two women who I won't attempt to dance with because, the one time I danced with them, they pretty clearly seemed to not enjoy it. There's also one I avoid because she has bad history with a friend of mine, and I don't want to risk hurting that friend by associating with her. Other than that, I'll dance with pretty much anyone who's interested.
On the new segment:
First off, please remember that internet media is forever. People aren't only going to watch your videos the day they drop, but also a month, a year, even a decade later, so, if you're going to do a news segment, please avoid current events or similar topics that will no longer be meaningful to future viewers. The news topic in this episode is evergreen, so I'm not complaining about that, just saying that something like "who will win the Mundial next week?" would be a bad choice.
As for Fernanda's post, I agree with her completely, but I think you guys lost the plot a little when you started talking about elite invitation-only events and starting people off with "razzle-dazzle" and then getting more "traditional" as they get better and become "hardcore". Fernanda's point, as I understand it, was that the close, intimate tango and flashy, noisy nightclubs are two fundamentally different experiences. As such, they appeal to different types of people. If tango had been presented to me as a nightclub-style experience, I would have walked away from it 30 years ago, because I don't enjoy that environment and never have, except in very small doses. I would not have lasted with tango long enough to become "hardcore" and get funneled into the "elite" events where things were more traditional and left room for introspection or a quiet connection with my partner.
This is how to dance tango:
our breath melding,
our eyes closing,
the better to listen
to the violins
telling the bandoneón
why Malena has not sung
since that one night.
- Así se baila el tango, as translated on poesiadegotan.com
I guess my perspective comes more from how i came upon tango. I started with more of a nuevo side listening go alternative music and slowly went from crazy extreme colgadas to a rather respectful simple walking with a few turns. I would say that LA isn't known for being very introspective. But I am more of a person who believes we needs tons of options to fill every niche possible. As people evolve, they choose different niches to suit their needs.
Yes I agree everyone probably has a tango black list. My list has very few "lifers" since most are not on it due to personal non tango reasons. My black list is more who I don't try to cabaceo, and is based on my perception of their desire to dance with me, unless they are physically painful to dance with. Obviously a hard unqualified rejection gains an instant entry😅
Well there was someone once when I was learning. Then, recently (years later), she came over and asked me for a dance. Hmmm, last leader standing? OK, let's move on.
What about… more small business? What about the experience dancers share one tanda with not to experience dancers? What about talk more about what you experience in the tango to random people who don’t know what tango is or they think tango is the rose in the mouth?
@@fernandaghibecauseofmytang4507 I think having a tanda at every milonga where people find someone new for each song definitely can be helpful. Some milongas have an icebreaker tanda and I have seen it work successfully at bigger events like marathons. Definitely
We have some future ideas involving random people. Hope we will have some good results.
I feel like some my most authentic tandas are with new followers. This is a privilege I have as a leader. Most of the time I see intermediate level leaders (possibly very experienced and respected in community and possibly using terms like advanced or expert to describe themselves) "teaching" moves they are not leading very well and usually with no attention to the music. This does not look like it would be appealing to me if I was a follower. I think there is not a very good community level understanding of tango. Most of the tango dancers who think they are beyond beginner level are probably not for that very reason. I don't think elitism is the answer. Participants end up pursuing status and promoting themselves as opposed to pursuing authenticity. Participants with status shut out others who are a threat to that status. Normal people can figure this out rather fast, and they figure out they don't want to be part of a cult. The pursuit of sharing good tango is the answer.
My perspective may be a bit jaded. When I see great dancers, men and women, share tango with others, I generally see people who then think that they're amazing because they got to dance with a good dancer. This sometimes leads to people not taking classes or practicing and being entitled to dances because they paid their admission.
I also found the inverse to be true. When we had house parties and invited our accomplished peers, it seemed that people were more willing to put in the effort to be better dancers in hopes to get an invitation.
I have people bringing politics in tango. Once they know that I stand for humanity and against genocide, they decided not to allow me to cabeceo them. Talk about that in your future episodes.
Bring more people to tango, hmm, for what and at which price? Does not tango have this own unique feature to magnetise people without help? I think it does. If tango magic is not enough on its own, so the external support will not work as well.
I think tango has magic, but some people in community leadership roles make it difficult to stick with tango.
Derek, the pettiness is problematic in LA. You yourself are a mirror image of LA culture by playing the same game like everyone else despite everyone's disgust in it. Its not just about inviting people to dance. Its about which group of friends and clique you jive with and moving up on the social ladder. I don't blame you or Robert, it is just the shallow nature of LA you guys have to live with.
Honestly I don't know a group that doesn't jive well with derek and I've seen him dance with people that almost nobody would touch. Just because somebody jives with the "cool kids" doesn't mean they act like snob. Sometimes what we see is only a fraction of the whole. As for pettiness, I'm sure everybody has their own little petty behavior. I don't think I'm above it myself. But I think it's good to admit to it as many people wouldn't. Like I know I'm passive aggressive. Not something I'm proud of, but I'm honest about it.
@@bertle615 The point that I'm making is that most of us who accept this reality is playing the same game to greater or lesser degree which is why a lot of people can sympathize your guys' black book commentary. Nobody is telling you that you are wrong because a lot of us are doing the same thing. Think about how there are actual people who are really hurt by this. Not everyone has built up a defense mechanism to shrug off unkind people, than laugh about it and perhaps one day make it into a podcast commentary.
I don't think this is LA specific.
@@tkurosaka probably not, pettiness and cliquishness exist almost everywhere. But LA has factors that makes it worse than other places. It is a mega city that is dominated by media and entertainment, that alone describes the type of personalities people are influenced by.