"Give me what I deserve" "I've earned the torch/I'm holding the torch" "I'm the only one here that's earned to be able to hold the torch" (sic) "I'll shut this shit down" The guy has a ridiculously outsized sense of self-importance and seems to imply that he has some legitimate role as the final arbiter of what is and isn't acceptable. He literally says: act the way I think you should act and you'll see what a nice/loving guy I can be. It's just like... give me a f*cking break. He went on a 15 minute diatribe and I'm still unclear on what his point was aside from "my way or the highway".
Pretty funny that he looked up to other people so hard that when they died, nobody was left in their tight knit circle of self aggrandizement to praise Snyder, so he set out on a rampage so people knew he was “in charge”.
Respectfully...stop giving this guy a platform. He's just making stuff up to justify his awful behavior. His behavior completely undermines what he's trying to say here, which is illogical to begin with. This is not about conservation, its about his own ego and delusions of grandeur. Also he's being super condescending/patronizing to you and you just laugh it off, you are too nice lol. Bolts don't last forever, so what if you chopped "the first iconic highline bolts." So we should just leave hundred year old garbage on the wall? Since when is replacing old bolts controversial? And was he comparing himself to Dean Potter? Lmao.
Shiiit, side ramble: Once it's 100 years old it may fall into the "historical relics" category.... 😅🤦 ...which is *exactly why* we should clean up the trash of our own hobbies when it is current so that we don't have gnarled "artifacts" cluttered everywhere in our natural spaces. For caves, anything older than 50yrs is considered [potentially] "historic," which means a bunch of caver trash like rusted crowbars and carbide lamp graffiti is now "permanent" ... While these can be neato in some contexts, it isn't exactly awesome in plenty of other cases.
Safety should have Priority, How not 2 Highline tested and showed that those bolts were not safe. Remove those unsafe bolts and put them in the museum in Yosemite valley. Document before and after to preserve history so now the public can see them.
Yeah, I don't want to see any more videos with him in it. I was hoping this interview would be more productive, but all it did is bolster Shawn's twisted sense of grandeur while stepping on Ryan for his attempt to be humble and reasonable. Ryan, I applaud your attempt to close this gap and find a middle ground, but you do not have to give Shawn a voice. He had no interest in hearing you. He had no interest in considering how he could be better himself. He just used this as an opportunity to try to say his piece and to inflate his own sense of self-importance. He was preaching, not conversing.
Like I get were this dude is coming from as far as the historical nature of the first bolts layed down. But you can't exactly leave scabby bolts form the 80s all over its unsafe
I listened very carefully to the rather one sided conversation and once I got past Shauns dreadful sunglasses, his dismissive attitude towards anyone and everyone who would even think about bolting or revolting, I have reached the opinion that he is the one who is needs the attitude adjustment. Ryan and Bobby have been performing a very important and beneficial (bolting) service of helping keep our climbers and slack liners safe, while Shaun has just tried to tear down their efforts, both literally and figuratively, to prop himself up. He talked about passing the torch if he can find anyone worthy, and my question would be who passed the torch to him, and how is he worthy? In terms of respect, I am not being disrespectful of Shaun because I don’t know him, but based on what I saw today, he didn’t earn any large degree of respect. Ryan and Bobby on the other hand have all my respect, because I’ve seen their very positive attitudes and professionalism demonstrated on many, many occasions. I’d trust my life on any of their bolts any day of the week….
He also contradicted himself a lot depending on what agenda he was pushing at the time. One thing his was saying didn't fit with something else so he contradicts himself to make this new point, then goes back on himself later when talking about the original thing. 😎
I am not a climber (I'm a caver). I agree that the rock deserves respect. Once a hole is drilled it can't be undrilled. But I agree that the amount of bravado from Shaun is uncalled for and from what I have seen from Ryan and Bobby I would 10/10 whip on their bolts any day.
This is tough, where can we agree on regulation in parks? What about "leave no trace"? SAR has the body count, is it them who has veto authority on where and what protection gets placed?
I don't agree with everything Shaun is saying and feel a little uncomfortable with his sense of ownership. I do agree with the idea that some commonly accepted standards would be good for everyone involved (the parks, bolters and users). In any case, it's great to see this discussion happening and good on you both for sitting down together - it can ultimately only be a good thing.
This might be an inspiration for 2 new episodes. 1. How to remove different bolts in a good way. 2. The bolting yosemite history. Whom has been bolting major routes and how have they done and learned the skills…
Dude comes across as a massive gatekeeper. Well done for going to talk to him, but I can’t honestly say that my opinion of the guy has improved at all.
@@my_name_is_betty283 in that case, I own the moon and I refuse to ‘pass the torch’ to people like NASA, SpaceX etc who have no idea how to do things properly. Matter of fact imma head over to the moon real quick to remove their incorrectly placed flags /s
"But where are the bodies?" June 8, 1973, Michael Blake falls to his death near the top of El Cap after leaning back on an original Warren Harding bolt and the bolt fails. The first ever death on El Cap was due to a bolt. Bolts do need to be replaced. Shawn's bolt's need to be replaced. Hell, 50-100 years from now all of our (well placed) glue-in bolts will probably need to be replaced. Nobody is perfect, and there is no perfect bolt. We inspect, we replace, and we sure as hell need to be understanding when someone replaces our own work.
While I appreciate you trying to reach across the aisle, you never broached his actions of installing a terribly dangerous via ferrata at the Picnic Lunch wall at Smith or out at the Zoo that will rust and stain the wall. This was vandalism, plain and simple. The sole purpose of which was to force regulation by defacing and destroying the very resource he is claiming to protect. His actions are indefensible and don't deserve a platform. Others will now see this without all the context and think he is just some eccentric, over zealous, fixed gear ethics guru instead of the danger that he is to the pursuit of climbing and our parks. I'm really disappointed in this video.
@@cfedorczak Relax stranger. Sweet summer child is idiom for ignorance. In this context, a piece that has clearly been cut, may contain the information you think he did not ask- but in reality did. Shawn is not my favorite person, to be polite. here's a hug man.
Yeah and uses the message of good bolting practise and his expertise in the field to prop it up. He think's he's infallible and got offended when Ryan didn't think he's old bolts were upto standard. I get that some bolts are historic, however bolts rust, so no bolts will be there forever even if never removed by a person. This whole situation wreaks of a case of the big green monster imo.
Shawn's done some shit that really isn't forgivable, clearly a volatile dude prone to lashing out. I think making him feel heard this way is probably a decent way to curb his terroristic tendencies for the time being. I think his dodge when asked directly about the problem with covering bolt remains with a glue-in illustrates how little substance he really has to share.
Agreed. Never once actually gave valid useful specific information, just ran around in a loop saying the same generic thing over and over. Ryan asked him a direct and specific question and he never answered it.
I think what he was getting at is don't leave corrode-able, non-natural materials in the rock, as 500 or more years from now they may weather their way out. They took thousands of years to form and we should respect that they'll be around that long. However, I will say dudes kind of an ass.
Freedom of speech is more important. I would rather hear him talk and form my own opinion.. He didnt impress by the way. "Better to let an idiot speak and remove all doubt"
He talked so much and said so little. Definitely demonstrated his passion on the topic, though. A 2min concise summary of his stance would be very helpful :).
I thought you handled this well Ryan Now - putting on my ‘route developer with almost 30yrs experience’ hat - I found this other gentleman has some valid points about aspiring to a higher standard. The problem is - he believes he is that standard and I feel delusions of grandeur or ego are getting in the way of what could be a shared mission. The guy is over-thinking and going way overboard on what he feels is right or wrong. The starting point for all bolting practice and materials is in the manufacturer’s install spec - usually geared towards industrial application. We take that and apply to stone to which your testing confirms the tolerances for climbing/slacklining are much greater than original industrial spec. In other words - less than perfect is still plenty good for our sport. I hope your continued videos will convince others to look at the science and facts, refined through The Bolting Bible vs attempting to meet the unrealistic standards of some condescending ‘guru’. Peace out.
He makes fun of you for having reached a lot of people. I don’t know how he can’t make the connection between him wanting to get standardized information out to the masses & your ability to deliver concise and organized information to the masses. If you could produce a video or subsection in the bolting Bible on how to do what in Yosemite according to his standardized point of view, the impact on the area & community would be beneficial to everyone & the drama. But the connection wasn’t made. In my opinion, YOUR (Ryan) ego is pliable but his is not. Mad respect for doing this.
You made a ton of great points but personally I dont believe he deserves space in such a helpful book. Id be down with the park making suggestions but this one man that refuses to join us in the present should not be venerated. His concerns are not the concerns of the community.
@@davidglenn878787 The park should make suggestions, I completely agree. People like him, with a fantasy sense of seniority based hierarchical keeper of nature complex are scary. His “I was born in the park” mentality mentality is one that nobody can reason with. He didn’t really elaborate on what he deemed to be all the “ok” ways of doing things, so no consensus can be made on his way. I wouldn’t do what he wanted blindly anyway, that just makes his type believe they are more powerful than they are.
He seems to want something that he can control. That is what I got out of this. I do understand the reason for having some rules in place, but his attitude says do it my way only and if not I'll mess it up for everyone. Do not agree with that has to be a better way that most people agree with.
Us old folks can be set in our ways for a lot of stuff,(not just talking about high lining/climbing Or the Ethics of bolting) and to see younger generations willing to sit ,chill and have a Discussion is Amazing to me personally. With this we can go far !
He's not really saying my way or the highway. He's saying he wants people to hold these Parks and Nat'l Monuments to a certain standard. He is willing to let other people run with it he just has yet to see that level of standards being practiced.
With the history of Shawn's antics, he's simply not the person who anyone should bother listening to regarding bolting anywhere, especially Yosemite. After having to deal with his violence because he's a thief, Shawn has no credibility whatsoever. And... Shawn isn't friends with all of the original high line folks.
Ryan, you and Bobby have been great ambassadors of the sport. Your pursuit of knowledge understanding and safety in what we do is refreshing and I love it. These battles of the generations are a reoccurring theme in climbing. Good job handling the situation diplomatically, and keep up the great work you have been doing.
Huge gate keeping vibe with this guy. Seems like instead of getting his expertise out to the people who could've used in a positive manner, he took the exact opposite approach and said if nobody is as perfect as him, then nobody should be doing it. So all the credit he could've leveraged, he threw it away because of his ego. Now he's dojng exactly ehat he accused others of. "Majestic area" "Needs regulation" "Look at this beautiful rock." Yeah it is, why are you purposely destroying places you see as "majestic" by putting up via ferrata on restricted areas? If he really believed what he was saying, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. He's only hurting himself and by proxy the community he claims to support and love.
I'm a little apprehensive about commenting on this because of how people often act online but: His stance seems a little hypocritical to me. Maybe I'm misreading things but it seems he wants respect, but isn't really willing to be respectful to others. He wants more for these beautiful areas but hasn't he gone around and smashed or otherwise remove bolts?
I'm glade to see that you 2 guys have finally met and talked in an adult manner, this is good for the sport. It was kind of one sided however. Shawn Snyder is not the only old climber out there. The torch is held up by many.
An integral part of any sport Ambassador’s role is to promote & decimate technical information by gaining the respect of your peers through understanding of another person’s point of view (Ryan does an excellent job here), while allowing for mistakes, errors & omissions and to respectfully go about educating or if necessary, change one’s perspective and or approach. Importantly, it includes advocating for the sport in a friendly, respectful, constructive & non threatening manner. Righteous indignation, no matter how justified, brought forth in a tyrant, bullying, self-anointed, entitled or hostile manner is usually met with defiance or indifference or both.
OK. You need a very good attitude to meet somebody who is not your opinion and is litterly angry on you. It's not easy at all. And all this effort to give this man a ramp for his opinions. I appreciate this.
Honestly the best part of the video that you guys have found a way to create a dialog and i can understand were he is coming from but the ego part is just a mask of fear once its discussed in a safe environment it will all disappear and this needs practice and i believe that you guys have done the first step ,that's when you start to discuss issues not personalities step by step , well done for bringing this up it takes a lot of courage
There's an African proverb, "Don't tear down a man's house if you can't build him a better one." Changed my life. Lots of respect for the two of you meeting together 👍👍
Man, I tried to be very open minded while listening to this. Shaun is a strong personality. I struggled to not feel like the whole misunderstanding was not his personal vendetta because he felt like his work was destroyed, which it wasn't. Any responsible bolter should know that any bolt is going to have to come out eventually. His other points are well taken. Absolutely stand up job for taking your licks from him, eating some humble pie, and mending that gap, regardless of where blame lies.
I appreciate a lot of what he’s saying, I totally agree with the best work possible should be done on these things. But he’s got ownership issues which is causing him to miss the exploration part of the sport.
Mad respect to you both for sitting down together and talking this out in person for first time. It’s obvious you both care about the vertical world and want it to be a sustainable sport moving forward.
Lot of respect to Ryan, you really didn't need to do this. It's good to actually see Shawn speak his mind rather than having everyone speculate as to what he is. I think this short conversation did a pretty good job at showing us what he is really like.
***I mean this information below in the most **polite respectful*** way possible typing on youtube. I am confused. Shawn Snyder destroyed the good bolts that were placed on the lost arrow spire. What are we hoping to learn from someone that destroyed good bolts in the name of rock environmental advocacy? There is space between being respectful, checking one's ego, and forgoing all accountability for the acts of vandalism he has committed. In general, the community wants safe bolts that last as long as possible with the least amount of environmental impact. I think Shawn is a good person who is passionate about environmental policy. From this conversation, none of his ideas on "safe" bolting are back by any specific research or methodology. His logic lacks a scientific process which is a core part of creating a system for safe bolting. Moreover, he seems bound to the idea that his friends were the elders of the park. And for that reason, he has a right to vandalize good bolts. This idea is childish. The park is a human creation. The land was there before humans and will be there long after humans are extinct. In human history, native people were removed from the park to make way for "civilized humans." And the wolves and bears were hunted to extinction. I would be curious to know how Shawn sees himself within that scope of history? I see so much ego in the points he makes about removing "his bolts." or the "First [YNSP] Highline bolts ever" or "his torch to pass." I feel sad that he may not be able to take a perspective beyond his own. Shawn is an adult and he should be prosecuted for his behavior choice to commit acts of vandalism in National Parks. Lastly, please consider using microphones in interviews. The sound quality in this film is substandard.
Nothing but respect for what you do and I love seeing you set a great example for working WITH people instead of continuing these bolt wars and the magnitude of hate that the climbing community unfortunately spreads. Thanks for being awesome!
The issue I have with him is mostly his idea that chopping old and outdated bolts isn’t a good thing because it’s history and therefore you can’t touch it. Sometimes you have to let go and let the next generation or guys doing new things do their thing and progress. Aside from that, I absolutely agree with him about regulating within the community instead of having outside regulators have to step in because they don’t understand a lot of the intricacies of these things.
I’ve been following Ryan and Bobby for some time, and their efforts to spread good knowledge assisted me a lot too understand bolting practices before actually drilling any holes; where I take all the information they provide with a grain of salt (or a shit load to be more accurate). The science they perform in their own slogan is “super good enough”, but the actual root of all this is within Shawn own words. “I earned the torch”, “I haven't found to who pass the torch”. I can see clearly how passionate he is, but this “gate keeping” mindset is probably why Ryan and Shawn never talked before, and I’ inferring here that most likely Shawn doesn't have the same approach of sharing the knowledge like Ryan. I you don't meet his “standards” you are not good enough to be part of the inner circle and receive his knowledge, expertise and experience. In Brazil we have exactly the same mindset from A LOT of (and I say this with respect) old school climber, where they had the same experience to prove them self to the generation before them sso they could receive this knowledge. I had lengthy discussion about this with all many climbers and I always reach the same result that this gate keeping mentality is more damaging to every single person in the community, no matter the intentions. In a perfect scenario how much trouble would be avoided if Shawn had his youtube channel before Ryan where he shared what he know; or had some sort of workshop/training on bolting; and in this scenario how further we as a community would be if more of the climbers with decades of experience shared more proactively their knowledge and knowhow?
His personality and discourse is coercive rather than evaluative. My curiosity thinks working together on vids and content could be great but there may be a tome when the train derails, which would be better well documented than not documented. Time will pass the torch one way or the other. You’ve done a high level good faith effort here. The stakeholders and sweaters in the development community do too. No matter what rules and regs and culture exists there will always be a slight percent of abuse / neglect. Proper documentation and information is the only way forward - which is taking place on your channel and in this exact process.
I have to say... I completely disagree with giving Shawn a platform. Very disappointed in the channel for giving someone a voice who has _consistently_ threatened others with physical harm.
Yep, I've had to defend myself with this guy, it was when I caught him selling my climbing gear he stole from me in TM over 15 years ago. It didn't work out very well for him. He's not to be trusted, don't turn back on him as he's unhinged,violent.
Sounds like a scientific study of what type of bolt and locking method is required for each rock type as proof for the best bolt type per route is required. Then ontop of that, a revision controlled database of open source information for the bolts on each route is required. If you can back it up science no one "should" argue with that.
Before I watch I want to say mad respect to both you and Shawn for actually having an in person conversation, so much contextual information is lost by only communicating online.
Well done to both of you. I have a few friends that Shawn reminds me of. They’re old school, they come off as very loud and they can be a little abrasive. But once you get to know them, you find out that they are extremely passionate, very knowledgeable and at the end of the day, they just want the best out of people and the best for our sport. Im very excited to see what comes of this, and i think it will only elevate the future of bolting. 👍💪
I'd like some Shawn removal technique videos 👍 including his ideas on what to do eventually *when* a bolt snaps during extraction... leave it? camouflage it? Or use a small diameter punch to chisel it out, making a larger hole and what to do then? (assuming a glue in replacement is not the reason for removal) I know you can also drill the stud out with the appropriate dril bit selection, or use cordless 1/4" die grinders with various types of carbide cutters, but while super effective it's only legally feasible if power tools are permitted 🤷♂️🙁
Shawn is right when it comes to style of replacement and certain ethics but absolutely wrong on most everything else.. He really needs to learn how to communicate before he takes actions just like everyone else especially if he's "holding the torch".. Anything you put in a hole can always come out one way or another. Usually the park or forest service will make permits for needed power tools in most areas especially for situations that involve safety and keeping additional holes to a minimum. Basically knowledge and communication is key. and EVERYONE if it isn't your route you should have permission first before you do any sort of rebolting.
@@climbingsnowboarder I feel I have to disagree The original set up with far to many bolts, rusted bolts, and odd rope was utterly hideous, a blight on the rock. The replacement was minimalistic and neat, made of stainless steal to avoid ugly rust and holes were covered to attempt to make the rock look less damaged. I didn't take offence when I was a kid and the rubbish route I spent many hours lovingly setting was removed to reset the gym. It was a hideous thing that was set for someone tiny, was basically jugs all the way because I was too useless to climb anything else and I just wanted a chance to get under the bouldering roof. As a selfish kid It was a climb set for me and my mate, it was there for our fun, not a climb set to benefit the gym goers At the age of 12 I understood that positive change is a good thing. That someone who did a better job than me, put something that was nicer to climb, up on the wall and that was not bad. It was better for the community at the gym, thus it is better for everyone. Ego has no place in the bolting world. If your job is shoddy and messy it should be removed, disguised and replaced by something better as long as the new gear is safe. He claims he wants low impact on the rock, well thats what was done in the replacement. It was safe and minimalistic with a well thought out setup that is useable for as many people as possible. If he actually cared about standards, beatification and minamal impact then explain via ferratta as mentioned in a hundred other comments. TL::DR In my humble option he does not practice what he preaches so he should be ignored and not given a platform. We need REAL bolters who ACTUALLY care about both opening up new routes for climbers/liners AND maintaining a minimalistic impact on our rock while keeping routes safe. These our our champions, the people that might get real regulation in place to maintain safty and avoid carckdowns People who throw their toys out of the pram and ruin a site with rusty rebar just to make a point are not people we should be putting on our shoulders to give us a voice.
@@jamesj4827 i think you may have missed my point. Shawn is completely wrong. He doesn't practice what he is preaching. . but there are ethics and communication is key. No one is championing Shawn
Good for you dude. Way to stand up and treat Shawn with respect. It was cool to see him speak after the whole previous debacle. It's evident the dude really does want what's right for the community. I think he's a little too weighted on the 'old guard' side of things, but it does sound like he's put a lot of thought into issues that pop up as time goes on and best practices. THIS is good for the community. Talking, listening, and doing it all with respect. Great video.
I have zero climbing experience. I started watching your channel because I enjoy your attention to detail and approach to testing gear. I was surprised to hear there are not specific regulations in nation parks regarding the exact type of bolts that can be used. Seems like exact bolt type and installation application should be clearly documented and enforced through permits. You had some tremendous patience during this conversation. Definitely impressed with your ability to discuss concerns from other climbers. I liked the video, but I watch your channel to see your opinion. It was interesting to hear Shawn's viewpoint but I would not necessarily embrace more content with him on your channel.
Writing this before the actual conversation because I want it to be unbiased. I admire your attempt to meet him in person to try and potentially "bury the hatchet". It can always be difficult to try and see eye to eye with someone you disagree with. But I appreciate that you both sat down and tried to resolve this. edit: Seemed like a productive conversation and hopefully things can move forward in a productive fashion.
AWESUME to do this Ryan, this is something more channels / corporations just people in general should take notice of and take as an example. Keep up the GREAT and AWESUME job in informing the communitie(s)
This is pretty cool content. The guy has an ego problem at best, and more likely has NPD... instead of what others have said about legitimizing him and giving him a platform, I propose that you are in fact doing us all a service by displaying his personality in the context of your own, very benign and humble, attitude and environment which you have created on RUclips. You already got the torch... he dropped it.
It is great to see people come together and have an honest conversation about what they are passionate about, especially when there are different opinions and past clashes. You are setting an example
In my experience people live up to your expectations and they're be a lot more amenable to your point of view if you treat them like people. This sounds like a huge step in the right direction and I hope Shawn can come to accept the new generation now that there's a dialogue.
THAT... was awesome. Two passionate guys circling around to a closer understanding. I'm not saying that Shawn doesn't deserve to be the Czar of bolting procedures, but I have a problem with anyone declaring themselves right without other expert's input. There are some people who have no business being the lord of some discipline who have anointed themselves such against the consensus of folks who are in the know. If Shawn can convince you, and other experts that his is the right approach, I would have no problem with him setting the standard that you have to achieve to have the torch passed to you in the future. I'm a know-nothing about these things, but he sure seems like the right person to set the standard that everyone else should have to follow. Good job guys!
You guys are the subject matter experts, and your commitment to having "hard" conversations over contentious topics gives me hope for the future of these parks.
big respect to Ryan, challenging ones ego is incredible inspiring. Ortega Falls is not what he made it sounds, there is some graffiti but it is far from LA. I have seen way more graffiti at some beach crags in Humboldt.
Respect for setting up and having a dialogue here. Shaun seems to really care about what’s going on in the valley. But he just seems like he wants to do it his way or no way.
Glad to hear you guys talked. There's enough conflict in the world without bringing it into our leasure time too. Just like to say thank you for making great videos. Saludos from Spain.
Fantastic conversation, Ryan. Coming from the UK I can certainly sympathise with the concerns over bolting ethics and wanting to see a level of stewardship within the community in order to protect access etc. Really great that you guys were able to sit down like this 👍🏼
Love to see you both putting your egos aside to come together ❤ As for videos between you guys would like to see vids on bolt installation, bolt removal, and when to place bolts and when to remove bolts would be nice:)
As another somewhat old guy, it has been my experience that you can learn some good stuff from people with difficult personalities as long as you go in with an open mind and a forgiving attitude, knowing that nobody is perfect. Always try to learn, take what you can to improve yourself, and let the rest slide off. I hope my kids feel that way about me and my imperfections... but anyway, it's nice to see some real communication instead of the amped up puffery that happens when faceless strangers square off on the net. Kudos to all involved for having the courage to have this conversation and share it.
So Shawm thinks he has never did anything wrong on a mountain from Noob to now. He was just born a very special guy who knew it all from the jump and didn't have to evolve his knowledge or technique. Now he goes around bashing on peeps cuz they should all just know from go and be his idea of perfect. Respecting Nature in Climbing and wanting to leave old gear in a climbing route or Highline etc, are 2 very opposing ideals. A hypocritical conundrum. I would imagine the very climbers you are trying to respect would be opposed to such a slight on the cliff face or rock. What's plainly obvious in Shawn's illogical babbling is his ego and his absolute belief in Old Guard secrecy and gatekeeping. It may all stem from the way he was treated as he started climbing. I highly doubt he wants true regulation for the sake of safety or environment. He wants his beliefs alone to be regulations. I commend you for talking with him, even as he talked down to you. But it seems you have 2 opposing view points. Your channel seems more in line with opening up this Sport for everyone, allaying beginners fears about safety and efficacy, while also putting knowledge in a format and location easy to learn from. Shawn's Position seems more in line with a person that believes this is his personal Sport and playground, it's his it's his, he's "Earned the Torch" whatever that truly means. All other's can go to hell if they don't do it his way. Defacing "Historic Natural Landmarks and Beauty" to prove some stupid ass point shows his Intellectual and Emotional Maturity and all the Anti-Logic that goes along with it. Regulations would be great. But you're going to have to do the work to pass the regulations, get funding, start a non profit to work from, then use that funding to buy the same bolts. Or different bolts for each different Rock face. Work with Parks on permitting and also dipping into funding to pay certified Climbers specialized in Bolt removal and extraction to go about the lengthy process of standardizing all of these routes. Maybe work on a grant from congress to start the Non profit, then an extra permitting fee at the park and donations for the rest. Not an impossibility, but definitely alot of heavy lifting and someone to be the goodwill ambassador to get it started. Love your channel Ryan. Wishing you all the best.
This kind of things happen in Europe Hungary 🇭🇺; Romania 🇷🇴 as well, it’s super nice & cool you sit down face to face. Confronting the old & the new in a respectful way can give birth to better solutions for the benefit of all “vertical society”. If you do something do it full hearted & precisely, be maximalist!. Big hug & greetings from Budapest/Hungary 🇭🇺
This was the best video you've done by far. Major respect for both of you for doing this. It's a great example to set for others. Being able to sit down and have difficult conversations and being willing to find a common ground is something we need a LOT more of in modern society.
I can respect where he is coming from but there is always two ways to handle a situation and I think he could have been more 'professional' about it. Big big respect for not just listening to him but actually hearing what he has to say. You are perfect at representing what you are trying to accomplish.
Honestly, he sounds jealous. Shawn sees you doing something that he should have done but his personality and whatever else he's got going on has got in the way. Him saying he wants to pass on the torch was his way of helping himself get over his own ego. I'm sure he has knowledge to pass on but keep on your own path of being open minded and willing to learn.
This is exactly how I see it too. Showed a lot of respect and composure to sit and be talked at like that! The comments would suggest that most people see Shawn the same way
Yeah he kept talking about Ryan "wanting to be the leader of bolting" which I've never gotten from his videos at all. He's just documenting experiments and making information publicly available, not trying to be a "teacher" or "leader".
He treated it like a lecture.. humble of you to sit there Ryan then post it.. I think that's all that old war horse has keep up the good work .. I learned how to climb from RUclips videos . I admire what you do!
That is uncomfortable to watch. Don't like his style, but feel like everyone wants a common path forward. If they are productive you should do future videos.
I would like to say thank you to the bolsters of the world, most of y’all are great and doing awesome things that bring people great joy and bring people outdoors and that’s awesome
There is a huge fallacy in Shawn's logic, in my opinion. According to him, NO ONE is good enough at bolting to bolt properly (or only a handful of people are). You cant bolt without experience, but you also cant gain experience if you don't bolt... If you are that much better at it, you should explain HOW you do it, not yell at people who did it "wrong"
I am surprised over how reasonable this conversation was after hearing all the rumors going around on the internet. Shaun takes great pride in preserving the routes, which I think is good. I also think there should always be a dialog with the original bolter when rebolting. Never the less, I don't agree with Shaun. But he raises some good questions
His actions belie his words. He puts up dangerous routes, chips bolts, puts rebar ladders through existing routes… basically defacing the environment he says he is trying to preserve.
"today's video was sponsored by humility" haaaaaah! Way to step up Ryan. Shawn's delivery and style is imperfect for sure, but I think his heart is in the right place. Anything we can learn from his years of experience that helps us elevate the standards we hold for bolting is a benefit.
I would also like to add it’s amazing what your eyes can be opened to when you close your mouth and open your ears and mind to the other sides perspective. Thanks for that guys really. If the world could come together for common ground setting aside differences then there’s not a problem that can not be solved. That’s just my opinion. Wondering if there’s anyone who agrees sometimes.
I'm late on the train. Glad I got to hear his side of things though. Hopefully, we can get a chance to see what his bolting standards are instead of just critiquing others.
GULP! My stomach felt tight and I was apprehensive starting this vid. But in the end I'm surprisingly more at ease and even though I don't know how things will get better. I believe they will. Thanks Ryan.
Good on you for making this meeting and video. Very humble. He definitely has an outsized sense of pride and protectiveness over something that belongs to all of us, and that he once was new at as well. But, I want to believe underneath it all are good intentions... They're just buried under ego.
I can understand how serviceability of re-bolting existing routes over decades can create tooling and skill set issues. If you have 5 styles and sizes of bolts on a route, how does one person make sure they have the exact equipment and skill set needed to remove and replace that bolt with absolute minimum scarring. When a bolt is placed we think of things like.. Clip position, protecting crux, quality of rock, angle, depth, usage, environmental factors, etc and I think he is trying to get at "long-term serviceability." Something to consider for sure.
Regardless of his "knowledge" he has a major chip on his shoulder. I have a lot of patience for others opinions but, this guy... Who the h is he anyway??? What torch?? Why do guys like this think that they are all that? NOBODY OWNS THESE PARKS. I've never had any respect for guys like this, for thinking that they're "king of Yosemite", that they've earned respect regardless of their attitude, you're just a climber or jumper get over yourself. Don't ever change Ryan.
Mad respect to all parties involved here. Swallowing your pride and trying to reach across the aisle is an example we should all strive to follow Edit: spelling
"Any man who needs to say I am the king, is no king" Tywin Lannister was right when he said it, and someone needs to say it to Shaun. Big respect to both parties for meeting and speaking, would love to see a full length unedited version.
"I have done the best I could to show forth the beauty, grandeur, and all-embracing usefulness of our wild mountain forest reservations and parks, with a view to inciting the people to come and enjoy them, and get them into their hearts, that so at length their preservation and right use might be made sure." JOHN MUIR Martinez, California September 1, 1901
Props for meeting with that guy, I like your attitude to allow other voices on your channel. But, I hope he doesn't show up on your channel too often, I'd neither want to add to his childish ego by adding to the viewcount nor have to try to figure out what the point of his monologue is. He's an old guy with a monolithic self concept based on the respect he get's from 'the' community for whatever he has done. He won't be around forever, so whatever...
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Be respectful or you will be blocked. Thank you!
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Glad to see the comment section is still open , thanks for looking at both sides and giving a man the time to explain in a respectful way .
Blocked ! Are you serious ! ? Pretty sure that will get a lot of people's backs up !! Censored by RUclips is bad enough 🤬
@@onsight2822 Be glad it's that way because commenting on your use of spaces would get me blocked 100%
@@onsight2822 just dont be a dick , it's easy if you try . ✌
Not that I am insinuating that you are , I'm saying for the ,nairdowells of the group lol
"Give me what I deserve"
"I've earned the torch/I'm holding the torch"
"I'm the only one here that's earned to be able to hold the torch" (sic)
"I'll shut this shit down"
The guy has a ridiculously outsized sense of self-importance and seems to imply that he has some legitimate role as the final arbiter of what is and isn't acceptable. He literally says: act the way I think you should act and you'll see what a nice/loving guy I can be. It's just like... give me a f*cking break.
He went on a 15 minute diatribe and I'm still unclear on what his point was aside from "my way or the highway".
Came here for this comment.
Yeah, that "I'll shut this down" thing didn't come across too good for him.
He contradicted him self A LOT in the begining trying to set up for that too.
Pretty funny that he looked up to other people so hard that when they died, nobody was left in their tight knit circle of self aggrandizement to praise Snyder, so he set out on a rampage so people knew he was “in charge”.
Isn’t this how every old guy in climbing acts though???
Respectfully...stop giving this guy a platform. He's just making stuff up to justify his awful behavior. His behavior completely undermines what he's trying to say here, which is illogical to begin with. This is not about conservation, its about his own ego and delusions of grandeur. Also he's being super condescending/patronizing to you and you just laugh it off, you are too nice lol. Bolts don't last forever, so what if you chopped "the first iconic highline bolts." So we should just leave hundred year old garbage on the wall? Since when is replacing old bolts controversial? And was he comparing himself to Dean Potter? Lmao.
Shiiit, side ramble:
Once it's 100 years old it may fall into the "historical relics" category.... 😅🤦
...which is *exactly why* we should clean up the trash of our own hobbies when it is current so that we don't have gnarled "artifacts" cluttered everywhere in our natural spaces.
For caves, anything older than 50yrs is considered [potentially] "historic," which means a bunch of caver trash like rusted crowbars and carbide lamp graffiti is now "permanent" ... While these can be neato in some contexts, it isn't exactly awesome in plenty of other cases.
Safety should have Priority, How not 2 Highline tested and showed that those bolts were not safe. Remove those unsafe bolts and put them in the museum in Yosemite valley. Document before and after to preserve history so now the public can see them.
Yeah, I don't want to see any more videos with him in it. I was hoping this interview would be more productive, but all it did is bolster Shawn's twisted sense of grandeur while stepping on Ryan for his attempt to be humble and reasonable.
Ryan, I applaud your attempt to close this gap and find a middle ground, but you do not have to give Shawn a voice. He had no interest in hearing you. He had no interest in considering how he could be better himself. He just used this as an opportunity to try to say his piece and to inflate his own sense of self-importance. He was preaching, not conversing.
Like I get were this dude is coming from as far as the historical nature of the first bolts layed down. But you can't exactly leave scabby bolts form the 80s all over its unsafe
I listened very carefully to the rather one sided conversation and once I got past Shauns dreadful sunglasses, his dismissive attitude towards anyone and everyone who would even think about bolting or revolting, I have reached the opinion that he is the one who is needs the attitude adjustment. Ryan and Bobby have been performing a very important and beneficial (bolting) service of helping keep our climbers and slack liners safe, while Shaun has just tried to tear down their efforts, both literally and figuratively, to prop himself up. He talked about passing the torch if he can find anyone worthy, and my question would be who passed the torch to him, and how is he worthy? In terms of respect, I am not being disrespectful of Shaun because I don’t know him, but based on what I saw today, he didn’t earn any large degree of respect. Ryan and Bobby on the other hand have all my respect, because I’ve seen their very positive attitudes and professionalism demonstrated on many, many occasions. I’d trust my life on any of their bolts any day of the week….
He also contradicted himself a lot depending on what agenda he was pushing at the time. One thing his was saying didn't fit with something else so he contradicts himself to make this new point, then goes back on himself later when talking about the original thing. 😎
Very eloquently put.
I am not a climber (I'm a caver). I agree that the rock deserves respect. Once a hole is drilled it can't be undrilled. But I agree that the amount of bravado from Shaun is uncalled for and from what I have seen from Ryan and Bobby I would 10/10 whip on their bolts any day.
This is tough, where can we agree on regulation in parks? What about "leave no trace"? SAR has the body count, is it them who has veto authority on where and what protection gets placed?
Well said . 💯it’s gatekeeping. And it’s ego
I don't agree with everything Shaun is saying and feel a little uncomfortable with his sense of ownership. I do agree with the idea that some commonly accepted standards would be good for everyone involved (the parks, bolters and users). In any case, it's great to see this discussion happening and good on you both for sitting down together - it can ultimately only be a good thing.
For sure.
I agree w this
100%
This might be an inspiration for 2 new episodes.
1. How to remove different bolts in a good way.
2. The bolting yosemite history. Whom has been bolting major routes and how have they done and learned the skills…
This part
Dude comes across as a massive gatekeeper. Well done for going to talk to him, but I can’t honestly say that my opinion of the guy has improved at all.
@@my_name_is_betty283 in that case, I own the moon and I refuse to ‘pass the torch’ to people like NASA, SpaceX etc who have no idea how to do things properly. Matter of fact imma head over to the moon real quick to remove their incorrectly placed flags /s
The Marine in me loves a good fist fight and that's the kind of personalities in the bars id look for to poke on to get one.
@@charliemiller4975
Dude just for that, I’m going to SHUT THE MOON DOWN SO HARD!
"But where are the bodies?"
June 8, 1973, Michael Blake falls to his death near the top of El Cap after leaning back on an original Warren Harding bolt and the bolt fails.
The first ever death on El Cap was due to a bolt.
Bolts do need to be replaced. Shawn's bolt's need to be replaced. Hell, 50-100 years from now all of our (well placed) glue-in bolts will probably need to be replaced. Nobody is perfect, and there is no perfect bolt. We inspect, we replace, and we sure as hell need to be understanding when someone replaces our own work.
I’d really like to see the both of you demonstrating what you believe is best practice on real rock
Yes! Bolting olympics! Battle of the bolters!
😁 Love this idea.
This would go farther than anything
I second this motion.
While I appreciate you trying to reach across the aisle, you never broached his actions of installing a terribly dangerous via ferrata at the Picnic Lunch wall at Smith or out at the Zoo that will rust and stain the wall. This was vandalism, plain and simple. The sole purpose of which was to force regulation by defacing and destroying the very resource he is claiming to protect. His actions are indefensible and don't deserve a platform. Others will now see this without all the context and think he is just some eccentric, over zealous, fixed gear ethics guru instead of the danger that he is to the pursuit of climbing and our parks. I'm really disappointed in this video.
Dude, for real. I honestly don't understand why we should give Shaun the benefit of the doubt when he installed a vengeance-based via feratta.
You think this is everything from the interview eh? sweet summer child.
@@cfedorczak Relax stranger.
Sweet summer child is idiom for ignorance.
In this context, a piece that has clearly been cut, may contain the information you think he did not ask- but in reality did.
Shawn is not my favorite person, to be polite.
here's a hug man.
@@v0hero691 Sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks for explaining.
@@cfedorczak all good my dude!
He seems more concerned about the ego around his own bolts than anything else.
Yeah and uses the message of good bolting practise and his expertise in the field to prop it up. He think's he's infallible and got offended when Ryan didn't think he's old bolts were upto standard.
I get that some bolts are historic, however bolts rust, so no bolts will be there forever even if never removed by a person.
This whole situation wreaks of a case of the big green monster imo.
Well ooooobviously it's his ego that holds the bolts into the wall, not the quality of the hardware!
/s
Shawn's done some shit that really isn't forgivable, clearly a volatile dude prone to lashing out. I think making him feel heard this way is probably a decent way to curb his terroristic tendencies for the time being.
I think his dodge when asked directly about the problem with covering bolt remains with a glue-in illustrates how little substance he really has to share.
Agreed. Never once actually gave valid useful specific information, just ran around in a loop saying the same generic thing over and over. Ryan asked him a direct and specific question and he never answered it.
I think what he was getting at is don't leave corrode-able, non-natural materials in the rock, as 500 or more years from now they may weather their way out. They took thousands of years to form and we should respect that they'll be around that long.
However, I will say dudes kind of an ass.
Freedom of speech is more important. I would rather hear him talk and form my own opinion.. He didnt impress by the way. "Better to let an idiot speak and remove all doubt"
Hard to watch him throw dirt on Ryan and poke him in the arm… made me want to punch that guy in the face through my phone.
He talked so much and said so little. Definitely demonstrated his passion on the topic, though. A 2min concise summary of his stance would be very helpful :).
have you watched the whole video?
@@lorygod1541 yes - I listened to the whole video.
did I miss the summary?
@@fishandchips3340 don't put bolts in if you don't know what your doing
I thought you handled this well Ryan
Now - putting on my ‘route developer with almost 30yrs experience’ hat - I found this other gentleman has some valid points about aspiring to a higher standard. The problem is - he believes he is that standard and I feel delusions of grandeur or ego are getting in the way of what could be a shared mission.
The guy is over-thinking and going way overboard on what he feels is right or wrong. The starting point for all bolting practice and materials is in the manufacturer’s install spec - usually geared towards industrial application. We take that and apply to stone to which your testing confirms the tolerances for climbing/slacklining are much greater than original industrial spec. In other words - less than perfect is still plenty good for our sport.
I hope your continued videos will convince others to look at the science and facts, refined through The Bolting Bible vs attempting to meet the unrealistic standards of some condescending ‘guru’.
Peace out.
Props to you for listening to someone with an opposing view . That's something I think a lot of people, myself included, struggle with.
Glad you managed to create a dialogue, and thanks for sharing his point of view which many of us were curious about!
“Get off my lawn!”
He makes fun of you for having reached a lot of people. I don’t know how he can’t make the connection between him wanting to get standardized information out to the masses & your ability to deliver concise and organized information to the masses. If you could produce a video or subsection in the bolting Bible on how to do what in Yosemite according to his standardized point of view, the impact on the area & community would be beneficial to everyone & the drama. But the connection wasn’t made. In my opinion, YOUR (Ryan) ego is pliable but his is not. Mad respect for doing this.
You made a ton of great points but personally I dont believe he deserves space in such a helpful book. Id be down with the park making suggestions but this one man that refuses to join us in the present should not be venerated. His concerns are not the concerns of the community.
@@davidglenn878787 The park should make suggestions, I completely agree. People like him, with a fantasy sense of seniority based hierarchical keeper of nature complex are scary. His “I was born in the park” mentality mentality is one that nobody can reason with. He didn’t really elaborate on what he deemed to be all the “ok” ways of doing things, so no consensus can be made on his way. I wouldn’t do what he wanted blindly anyway, that just makes his type believe they are more powerful than they are.
+1
He seems to want something that he can control. That is what I got out of this. I do understand the reason for having some rules in place, but his attitude says do it my way only and if not I'll mess it up for everyone. Do not agree with that has to be a better way that most people agree with.
That's what I got out of it, too.
Yep. Sounds a bit like Big Wall Pronouns
Us old folks can be set in our ways for a lot of stuff,(not just talking about high lining/climbing Or the Ethics of bolting) and to see younger generations willing to sit ,chill and have a Discussion is Amazing to me personally. With this we can go far !
He's not really saying my way or the highway. He's saying he wants people to hold these Parks and Nat'l Monuments to a certain standard. He is willing to let other people run with it he just has yet to see that level of standards being practiced.
@@bm669 So you're saying, to him, it's NOT super good enough? 😔
With the history of Shawn's antics, he's simply not the person who anyone should bother listening to regarding bolting anywhere, especially Yosemite.
After having to deal with his violence because he's a thief, Shawn has no credibility whatsoever.
And...
Shawn isn't friends with all of the original high line folks.
Ryan, you and Bobby have been great ambassadors of the sport. Your pursuit of knowledge understanding and safety in what we do is refreshing and I love it. These battles of the generations are a reoccurring theme in climbing. Good job handling the situation diplomatically, and keep up the great work you have been doing.
Huge gate keeping vibe with this guy. Seems like instead of getting his expertise out to the people who could've used in a positive manner, he took the exact opposite approach and said if nobody is as perfect as him, then nobody should be doing it.
So all the credit he could've leveraged, he threw it away because of his ego. Now he's dojng exactly ehat he accused others of. "Majestic area" "Needs regulation" "Look at this beautiful rock."
Yeah it is, why are you purposely destroying places you see as "majestic" by putting up via ferrata on restricted areas? If he really believed what he was saying, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. He's only hurting himself and by proxy the community he claims to support and love.
I'm a little apprehensive about commenting on this because of how people often act online but:
His stance seems a little hypocritical to me. Maybe I'm misreading things but it seems he wants respect, but isn't really willing to be respectful to others. He wants more for these beautiful areas but hasn't he gone around and smashed or otherwise remove bolts?
Also apparently got caught installing a rebar ladder at Smith
He probably has some type of personality disorder.
He still has something that erks me...Haven't figured out what it is, but it's really good to see you guys communicating lol
I'm glade to see that you 2 guys have finally met and talked in an adult manner, this is good for the sport.
It was kind of one sided however. Shawn Snyder is not the only old climber out there. The torch is held up by many.
Can't say I'm impressed. I'm outside the outdoor climbing community but Shawn seems more opinionated than educated.
Who gave Shawn this torch to wield over the entire climbing world?
Sounds like he gave it to himself
GAWD!
Zach Martin flawed
@@kiefmanning7394 what rhymes with flawed? Mod prod, is dod a word?
Zach Martin lawd ah mercy
You’re a real one. Keep doing what you do, you make your own path. The library of information y’all have provided on this channel is so valuable.
An integral part of any sport Ambassador’s role is to promote & decimate technical information by gaining the respect of your peers through understanding of another
person’s point of view (Ryan does an excellent job here), while allowing for mistakes, errors & omissions and to respectfully go about educating or if necessary, change one’s perspective and or approach. Importantly, it includes advocating for the sport in a friendly, respectful, constructive & non threatening manner.
Righteous indignation, no matter how justified, brought forth in a tyrant, bullying, self-anointed, entitled or hostile manner is usually met with defiance or indifference or both.
OK. You need a very good attitude to meet somebody who is not your opinion and is litterly angry on you. It's not easy at all. And all this effort to give this man a ramp for his opinions. I appreciate this.
Honestly the best part of the video that you guys have found a way to create a dialog and i can understand were he is coming from but the ego part is just a mask of fear once its discussed in a safe environment it will all disappear and this needs practice and i believe that you guys have done the first step ,that's when you start to discuss issues not personalities step by step , well done for bringing this up it takes a lot of courage
A great conversation albeit one sided, unfortunately, This guys ego stands in the way of his message. solid message, poor delivery.
There's an African proverb, "Don't tear down a man's house if you can't build him a better one." Changed my life.
Lots of respect for the two of you meeting together 👍👍
Man, I tried to be very open minded while listening to this. Shaun is a strong personality. I struggled to not feel like the whole misunderstanding was not his personal vendetta because he felt like his work was destroyed, which it wasn't. Any responsible bolter should know that any bolt is going to have to come out eventually. His other points are well taken. Absolutely stand up job for taking your licks from him, eating some humble pie, and mending that gap, regardless of where blame lies.
I've never rock climbed or high lined but these videos are oddly fascinating. 😂
Never related so hard to a comment
Same, id never do either but I really enjoy these videos, maybe because I love the outdoors and hiking.
Thanks for bridging the gap, meeting, and sharing. World would be a better place if everyone could do this.
I appreciate a lot of what he’s saying, I totally agree with the best work possible should be done on these things. But he’s got ownership issues which is causing him to miss the exploration part of the sport.
Mad respect to you both for sitting down together and talking this out in person for first time. It’s obvious you both care about the vertical world and want it to be a sustainable sport moving forward.
Lot of respect to Ryan, you really didn't need to do this. It's good to actually see Shawn speak his mind rather than having everyone speculate as to what he is. I think this short conversation did a pretty good job at showing us what he is really like.
***I mean this information below in the most **polite respectful*** way possible typing on youtube.
I am confused. Shawn Snyder destroyed the good bolts that were placed on the lost arrow spire.
What are we hoping to learn from someone that destroyed good bolts in the name of rock environmental advocacy?
There is space between being respectful, checking one's ego, and forgoing all accountability for the acts of vandalism he has committed.
In general, the community wants safe bolts that last as long as possible with the least amount of environmental impact.
I think Shawn is a good person who is passionate about environmental policy. From this conversation, none of his ideas on "safe" bolting are back by any specific research or methodology. His logic lacks a scientific process which is a core part of creating a system for safe bolting.
Moreover, he seems bound to the idea that his friends were the elders of the park. And for that reason, he has a right to vandalize good bolts. This idea is childish. The park is a human creation. The land was there before humans and will be there long after humans are extinct. In human history, native people were removed from the park to make way for "civilized humans." And the wolves and bears were hunted to extinction. I would be curious to know how Shawn sees himself within that scope of history?
I see so much ego in the points he makes about removing "his bolts." or the "First [YNSP] Highline bolts ever" or "his torch to pass." I feel sad that he may not be able to take a perspective beyond his own.
Shawn is an adult and he should be prosecuted for his behavior choice to commit acts of vandalism in National Parks.
Lastly, please consider using microphones in interviews. The sound quality in this film is substandard.
Nothing but respect for what you do and I love seeing you set a great example for working WITH people instead of continuing these bolt wars and the magnitude of hate that the climbing community unfortunately spreads. Thanks for being awesome!
The issue I have with him is mostly his idea that chopping old and outdated bolts isn’t a good thing because it’s history and therefore you can’t touch it. Sometimes you have to let go and let the next generation or guys doing new things do their thing and progress. Aside from that, I absolutely agree with him about regulating within the community instead of having outside regulators have to step in because they don’t understand a lot of the intricacies of these things.
I’ve been following Ryan and Bobby for some time, and their efforts to spread good knowledge assisted me a lot too understand bolting practices before actually drilling any holes; where I take all the information they provide with a grain of salt (or a shit load to be more accurate). The science they perform in their own slogan is “super good enough”, but the actual root of all this is within Shawn own words. “I earned the torch”, “I haven't found to who pass the torch”.
I can see clearly how passionate he is, but this “gate keeping” mindset is probably why Ryan and Shawn never talked before, and I’ inferring here that most likely Shawn doesn't have the same approach of sharing the knowledge like Ryan. I you don't meet his “standards” you are not good enough to be part of the inner circle and receive his knowledge, expertise and experience.
In Brazil we have exactly the same mindset from A LOT of (and I say this with respect) old school climber, where they had the same experience to prove them self to the generation before them sso they could receive this knowledge. I had lengthy discussion about this with all many climbers and I always reach the same result that this gate keeping mentality is more damaging to every single person in the community, no matter the intentions.
In a perfect scenario how much trouble would be avoided if Shawn had his youtube channel before Ryan where he shared what he know; or had some sort of workshop/training on bolting; and in this scenario how further we as a community would be if more of the climbers with decades of experience shared more proactively their knowledge and knowhow?
Great job, Ryan! I really admire the fact that you decided to meet, talk and discuss with Shawn! Shows true greatness and strength.
His personality and discourse is coercive rather than evaluative. My curiosity thinks working together on vids and content could be great but there may be a tome when the train derails, which would be better well documented than not documented.
Time will pass the torch one way or the other.
You’ve done a high level good faith effort here. The stakeholders and sweaters in the development community do too.
No matter what rules and regs and culture exists there will always be a slight percent of abuse / neglect.
Proper documentation and information is the only way forward - which is taking place on your channel and in this exact process.
I have to say... I completely disagree with giving Shawn a platform. Very disappointed in the channel for giving someone a voice who has _consistently_ threatened others with physical harm.
Yep, I've had to defend myself with this guy, it was when I caught him selling my climbing gear he stole from me in TM over 15 years ago.
It didn't work out very well for him.
He's not to be trusted, don't turn back on him as he's unhinged,violent.
This guy has threatened people? Then he is a child of so.
Sounds like a scientific study of what type of bolt and locking method is required for each rock type as proof for the best bolt type per route is required.
Then ontop of that, a revision controlled database of open source information for the bolts on each route is required.
If you can back it up science no one "should" argue with that.
Whos gonna pay for the work to do this?
Many jurisdictions are at play, and they all get managed differently and by different agencies.
Climbing is exploding in popularity and I believe there will be much more regulation in the future.
Before I watch I want to say mad respect to both you and Shawn for actually having an in person conversation, so much contextual information is lost by only communicating online.
Well done to both of you. I have a few friends that Shawn reminds me of. They’re old school, they come off as very loud and they can be a little abrasive. But once you get to know them, you find out that they are extremely passionate, very knowledgeable and at the end of the day, they just want the best out of people and the best for our sport. Im very excited to see what comes of this, and i think it will only elevate the future of bolting. 👍💪
excited to listen and see the view points shared by both!
I'd like some Shawn removal technique videos 👍 including his ideas on what to do eventually *when* a bolt snaps during extraction... leave it? camouflage it? Or use a small diameter punch to chisel it out, making a larger hole and what to do then? (assuming a glue in replacement is not the reason for removal) I know you can also drill the stud out with the appropriate dril bit selection, or use cordless 1/4" die grinders with various types of carbide cutters, but while super effective it's only legally feasible if power tools are permitted 🤷♂️🙁
Shawn is right when it comes to style of replacement and certain ethics but absolutely wrong on most everything else.. He really needs to learn how to communicate before he takes actions just like everyone else especially if he's "holding the torch".. Anything you put in a hole can always come out one way or another. Usually the park or forest service will make permits for needed power tools in most areas especially for situations that involve safety and keeping additional holes to a minimum. Basically knowledge and communication is key. and EVERYONE if it isn't your route you should have permission first before you do any sort of rebolting.
@@climbingsnowboarder I feel I have to disagree
The original set up with far to many bolts, rusted bolts, and odd rope was utterly hideous, a blight on the rock.
The replacement was minimalistic and neat, made of stainless steal to avoid ugly rust and holes were covered to attempt to make the rock look less damaged.
I didn't take offence when I was a kid and the rubbish route I spent many hours lovingly setting was removed to reset the gym.
It was a hideous thing that was set for someone tiny, was basically jugs all the way because I was too useless to climb anything else and I just wanted a chance to get under the bouldering roof.
As a selfish kid It was a climb set for me and my mate, it was there for our fun, not a climb set to benefit the gym goers
At the age of 12 I understood that positive change is a good thing.
That someone who did a better job than me, put something that was nicer to climb, up on the wall and that was not bad.
It was better for the community at the gym, thus it is better for everyone.
Ego has no place in the bolting world.
If your job is shoddy and messy it should be removed, disguised and replaced by something better as long as the new gear is safe.
He claims he wants low impact on the rock, well thats what was done in the replacement. It was safe and minimalistic with a well thought out setup that is useable for as many people as possible.
If he actually cared about standards, beatification and minamal impact then explain via ferratta as mentioned in a hundred other comments.
TL::DR
In my humble option he does not practice what he preaches so he should be ignored and not given a platform.
We need REAL bolters who ACTUALLY care about both opening up new routes for climbers/liners AND maintaining a minimalistic impact on our rock while keeping routes safe. These our our champions, the people that might get real regulation in place to maintain safty and avoid carckdowns
People who throw their toys out of the pram and ruin a site with rusty rebar just to make a point are not people we should be putting on our shoulders to give us a voice.
@@jamesj4827 i think you may have missed my point. Shawn is completely wrong. He doesn't practice what he is preaching. . but there are ethics and communication is key. No one is championing Shawn
@@climbingsnowboarder ah fair play man my bad, clearly misunderstood, cheers for clarifying and you have a grand day
Good for you dude. Way to stand up and treat Shawn with respect. It was cool to see him speak after the whole previous debacle. It's evident the dude really does want what's right for the community. I think he's a little too weighted on the 'old guard' side of things, but it does sound like he's put a lot of thought into issues that pop up as time goes on and best practices. THIS is good for the community. Talking, listening, and doing it all with respect. Great video.
I have zero climbing experience. I started watching your channel because I enjoy your attention to detail and approach to testing gear.
I was surprised to hear there are not specific regulations in nation parks regarding the exact type of bolts that can be used. Seems like exact bolt type and installation application should be clearly documented and enforced through permits.
You had some tremendous patience during this conversation. Definitely impressed with your ability to discuss concerns from other climbers. I liked the video, but I watch your channel to see your opinion. It was interesting to hear Shawn's viewpoint but I would not necessarily embrace more content with him on your channel.
Writing this before the actual conversation because I want it to be unbiased. I admire your attempt to meet him in person to try and potentially "bury the hatchet". It can always be difficult to try and see eye to eye with someone you disagree with. But I appreciate that you both sat down and tried to resolve this.
edit: Seemed like a productive conversation and hopefully things can move forward in a productive fashion.
AWESUME to do this Ryan, this is something more channels / corporations just people in general should take notice of and take as an example. Keep up the GREAT and AWESUME job in informing the communitie(s)
This is pretty cool content. The guy has an ego problem at best, and more likely has NPD... instead of what others have said about legitimizing him and giving him a platform, I propose that you are in fact doing us all a service by displaying his personality in the context of your own, very benign and humble, attitude and environment which you have created on RUclips. You already got the torch... he dropped it.
It is great to see people come together and have an honest conversation about what they are passionate about, especially when there are different opinions and past clashes. You are setting an example
In my experience people live up to your expectations and they're be a lot more amenable to your point of view if you treat them like people.
This sounds like a huge step in the right direction and I hope Shawn can come to accept the new generation now that there's a dialogue.
Once again. Your channel is a class act.
THAT... was awesome. Two passionate guys circling around to a closer understanding. I'm not saying that Shawn doesn't deserve to be the Czar of bolting procedures, but I have a problem with anyone declaring themselves right without other expert's input. There are some people who have no business being the lord of some discipline who have anointed themselves such against the consensus of folks who are in the know. If Shawn can convince you, and other experts that his is the right approach, I would have no problem with him setting the standard that you have to achieve to have the torch passed to you in the future. I'm a know-nothing about these things, but he sure seems like the right person to set the standard that everyone else should have to follow.
Good job guys!
Much respect on the acknowledgment or opposing viewpoints. This is how it should be done.
You guys are the subject matter experts, and your commitment to having "hard" conversations over contentious topics gives me hope for the future of these parks.
big respect to Ryan, challenging ones ego is incredible inspiring. Ortega Falls is not what he made it sounds, there is some graffiti but it is far from LA. I have seen way more graffiti at some beach crags in Humboldt.
Last time I was there in broad daylight. We had to kick the kids out there were spray painting the rocks lol.
Respect for setting up and having a dialogue here. Shaun seems to really care about what’s going on in the valley. But he just seems like he wants to do it his way or no way.
Glad to hear you guys talked. There's enough conflict in the world without bringing it into our leasure time too. Just like to say thank you for making great videos. Saludos from Spain.
Fantastic conversation, Ryan. Coming from the UK I can certainly sympathise with the concerns over bolting ethics and wanting to see a level of stewardship within the community in order to protect access etc. Really great that you guys were able to sit down like this 👍🏼
Love to see you both putting your egos aside to come together ❤
As for videos between you guys would like to see vids on bolt installation, bolt removal, and when to place bolts and when to remove bolts would be nice:)
As another somewhat old guy, it has been my experience that you can learn some good stuff from people with difficult personalities as long as you go in with an open mind and a forgiving attitude, knowing that nobody is perfect. Always try to learn, take what you can to improve yourself, and let the rest slide off. I hope my kids feel that way about me and my imperfections... but anyway, it's nice to see some real communication instead of the amped up puffery that happens when faceless strangers square off on the net. Kudos to all involved for having the courage to have this conversation and share it.
So Shawm thinks he has never did anything wrong on a mountain from Noob to now. He was just born a very special guy who knew it all from the jump and didn't have to evolve his knowledge or technique. Now he goes around bashing on peeps cuz they should all just know from go and be his idea of perfect.
Respecting Nature in Climbing and wanting to leave old gear in a climbing route or Highline etc, are 2 very opposing ideals. A hypocritical conundrum. I would imagine the very climbers you are trying to respect would be opposed to such a slight on the cliff face or rock.
What's plainly obvious in Shawn's illogical babbling is his ego and his absolute belief in Old Guard secrecy and gatekeeping. It may all stem from the way he was treated as he started climbing. I highly doubt he wants true regulation for the sake of safety or environment. He wants his beliefs alone to be regulations.
I commend you for talking with him, even as he talked down to you. But it seems you have 2 opposing view points. Your channel seems more in line with opening up this Sport for everyone, allaying beginners fears about safety and efficacy, while also putting knowledge in a format and location easy to learn from.
Shawn's Position seems more in line with a person that believes this is his personal Sport and playground, it's his it's his, he's "Earned the Torch" whatever that truly means. All other's can go to hell if they don't do it his way.
Defacing "Historic Natural Landmarks and Beauty" to prove some stupid ass point shows his Intellectual and Emotional Maturity and all the Anti-Logic that goes along with it.
Regulations would be great. But you're going to have to do the work to pass the regulations, get funding, start a non profit to work from, then use that funding to buy the same bolts. Or different bolts for each different Rock face. Work with Parks on permitting and also dipping into funding to pay certified Climbers specialized in Bolt removal and extraction to go about the lengthy process of standardizing all of these routes. Maybe work on a grant from congress to start the Non profit, then an extra permitting fee at the park and donations for the rest.
Not an impossibility, but definitely alot of heavy lifting and someone to be the goodwill ambassador to get it started.
Love your channel Ryan. Wishing you all the best.
This kind of things happen in Europe Hungary 🇭🇺; Romania 🇷🇴 as well, it’s super nice & cool you sit down face to face.
Confronting the old & the new in a respectful way can give birth to better solutions for the benefit of all “vertical society”.
If you do something do it full hearted & precisely, be maximalist!.
Big hug & greetings from Budapest/Hungary 🇭🇺
This was the best video you've done by far. Major respect for both of you for doing this. It's a great example to set for others. Being able to sit down and have difficult conversations and being willing to find a common ground is something we need a LOT more of in modern society.
I can respect where he is coming from but there is always two ways to handle a situation and I think he could have been more 'professional' about it. Big big respect for not just listening to him but actually hearing what he has to say. You are perfect at representing what you are trying to accomplish.
He’s like my dad telling me I didn’t tidy my bedroom up to his army standard
Mad respect for doing this guys
You respect them for platforming a power tripping thief whos putting peoples lives in danger? lmfao
Honestly, he sounds jealous. Shawn sees you doing something that he should have done but his personality and whatever else he's got going on has got in the way. Him saying he wants to pass on the torch was his way of helping himself get over his own ego. I'm sure he has knowledge to pass on but keep on your own path of being open minded and willing to learn.
This is exactly how I see it too. Showed a lot of respect and composure to sit and be talked at like that! The comments would suggest that most people see Shawn the same way
Yeah he kept talking about Ryan "wanting to be the leader of bolting" which I've never gotten from his videos at all. He's just documenting experiments and making information publicly available, not trying to be a "teacher" or "leader".
He treated it like a lecture.. humble of you to sit there Ryan then post it.. I think that's all that old war horse has keep up the good work .. I learned how to climb from RUclips videos . I admire what you do!
That is uncomfortable to watch. Don't like his style, but feel like everyone wants a common path forward. If they are productive you should do future videos.
It appears they used a microphone on its own tripod with a sock as a wind-dampener.
I would like to say thank you to the bolsters of the world, most of y’all are great and doing awesome things that bring people great joy and bring people outdoors and that’s awesome
Important thing is to keep growing...
You both showed that it is posible, respect for that...
Keep up the good work!!!
There is a huge fallacy in Shawn's logic, in my opinion. According to him, NO ONE is good enough at bolting to bolt properly (or only a handful of people are). You cant bolt without experience, but you also cant gain experience if you don't bolt... If you are that much better at it, you should explain HOW you do it, not yell at people who did it "wrong"
I am surprised over how reasonable this conversation was after hearing all the rumors going around on the internet. Shaun takes great pride in preserving the routes, which I think is good. I also think there should always be a dialog with the original bolter when rebolting.
Never the less, I don't agree with Shaun. But he raises some good questions
His actions belie his words. He puts up dangerous routes, chips bolts, puts rebar ladders through existing routes… basically defacing the environment he says he is trying to preserve.
"today's video was sponsored by humility" haaaaaah! Way to step up Ryan. Shawn's delivery and style is imperfect for sure, but I think his heart is in the right place. Anything we can learn from his years of experience that helps us elevate the standards we hold for bolting is a benefit.
I would also like to add it’s amazing what your eyes can be opened to when you close your mouth and open your ears and mind to the other sides perspective. Thanks for that guys really. If the world could come together for common ground setting aside differences then there’s not a problem that can not be solved. That’s just my opinion. Wondering if there’s anyone who agrees sometimes.
I'm late on the train. Glad I got to hear his side of things though. Hopefully, we can get a chance to see what his bolting standards are instead of just critiquing others.
GULP! My stomach felt tight and I was apprehensive starting this vid. But in the end I'm surprisingly more at ease and even though I don't know how things will get better. I believe they will.
Thanks Ryan.
I’m impressed all the way around, well done.
That was great to see, we need more of this in the world today ❤️
Good on you for making this meeting and video. Very humble. He definitely has an outsized sense of pride and protectiveness over something that belongs to all of us, and that he once was new at as well. But, I want to believe underneath it all are good intentions... They're just buried under ego.
I can understand how serviceability of re-bolting existing routes over decades can create tooling and skill set issues. If you have 5 styles and sizes of bolts on a route, how does one person make sure they have the exact equipment and skill set needed to remove and replace that bolt with absolute minimum scarring. When a bolt is placed we think of things like.. Clip position, protecting crux, quality of rock, angle, depth, usage, environmental factors, etc and I think he is trying to get at "long-term serviceability." Something to consider for sure.
Eye opening, I would hope that bolting sober is part of the "good ethics".
Once again Ryan, you have proven you can be the bigger man. Keep up the good work.
Respect for doing this. Bring the community together and show the way by accepting mistakes.
Regardless of his "knowledge" he has a major chip on his shoulder. I have a lot of patience for others opinions but, this guy...
Who the h is he anyway??? What torch?? Why do guys like this think that they are all that? NOBODY OWNS THESE PARKS. I've never had any respect for guys like this, for thinking that they're "king of Yosemite", that they've earned respect regardless of their attitude, you're just a climber or jumper get over yourself. Don't ever change Ryan.
wished everyone who disagrees with someone could sit down like these two guys and listen to each other as they are doing
edit: i deleted my original comment asking for details, after reading about the guy i want to know nothing more of him
Mad respect to all parties involved here. Swallowing your pride and trying to reach across the aisle is an example we should all strive to follow
Edit: spelling
"Any man who needs to say I am the king, is no king" Tywin Lannister was right when he said it, and someone needs to say it to Shaun. Big respect to both parties for meeting and speaking, would love to see a full length unedited version.
Wow Ryan, props to you for managing a difficult discussion
"I have done the best I could to show forth the beauty, grandeur, and all-embracing usefulness of our wild mountain forest reservations and parks, with a view to inciting the people to come and enjoy them, and get them into their hearts, that so at length their preservation and right use might be made sure." JOHN MUIR Martinez, California September 1, 1901
Props for meeting with that guy, I like your attitude to allow other voices on your channel. But, I hope he doesn't show up on your channel too often, I'd neither want to add to his childish ego by adding to the viewcount nor have to try to figure out what the point of his monologue is. He's an old guy with a monolithic self concept based on the respect he get's from 'the' community for whatever he has done. He won't be around forever, so whatever...