“Yes, and” isn’t the great D&D advice you think it is
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- Is "yes, and" good D&D advice? Yes, but... 😬
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Pre-order the Game Master's Deck of Boons & Banes! Or don't! I'm not your mom! www.ginnydi.com/boonsandbanes
Would have liked to see a sample card, but pre-ordered anyway in thanks to all the great content and because I trust you've made it worth it. Cheers!
@GinnyDi: Preordering 3 - 1 for self, 2 for gifts.
Can add "Professional Published Author, Level 1 (Multiclass)" to your character sheet 🖖🤙
You might not be my mum, but I think the sword might be my dad...gonna look up the UK source for the deck, and support my potential father's new life
EA Games and many other publishers from gaming industry teached us: No preorders.
Always wait for the products being released, so you know if it's worth buying.
It looks pretty cool, I'll need to look up a bit more info on it.
If you plan to make a follow up to put in stores, featuring player housing and social classes, maybe it could be called Barns & Nobles.
‘Yes, and’ Ginny style:
“Do I need a greatsword in order to DM?”
“Yes, and you need a dagger too.”
😂😂 this comment is spot on
Protip: Switching to your dagger is faster than reloading your greatsword.
Yes, and you need a dagger.
Yes, but it will make you feel better to have a bladed instrument near Dave.
No, but you should mention regulary that you can get one at a minute's notice.
No, and poisoning Dave's goblet is way more fun anyway.
You joke but there's a dnd horror story out there about a DM getting stabbed (superficially don't worry) by an angry player and a sword might have prevented that.
I personally find that having a mace at hand does keep players from getting too extravagant with their requests. Somehow invites less dispute than a sword, but your mileage may vary.
Improvisational comedy has different objectives from tabletop roleplay, and for those objectives "yes, and" is the perfect rule. For our ttrpg purposes, sometimes "yes, but" or even "no, wtf" might be needed.
Damn it! I left "no wtf?" off the grid 🤦🏻♀️
@@GinnyDi I'd say you covered it with the "good faith/bad faith" disclaimer :D
@@GinnyDi You can always do a follow-up video.
I loosely use the concept of “yes, and” in D&D a lot, HOWEVER I also use “no, but” a lot! “No, wtf” definitely happens too tho 😂
Implies the existence of a "Yes, wtf", which.... checks out
This video reminded me a lot fo a piece of advice I saw I think from the alexandrian blog that was like "If a player says they want to do something that seems stupid, and they normally act in good faith, it's probably not that they suddenly want their character to jump off the 300 foot tall building, but that there's miscommunication so they don't understand the situation and how tall the building is"
This! It's unlikely that your conscientious player has suddenly become a game-breaking monster overnight 😂
@@GinnyDi I dig get to see that happen once. DUde had been a good solid stable player for well over a decade. Then just somewhere out of nowhere decided that well since we didn't have a hard core powergamer....he was going to roll a new character and do just that. And started an arms race among the table :(
Yes, and you can also soften your "no"s with some narrative, like "With your skills as an assassin you realize this would be extremely difficult, but (perception check) you remember hearing the kitchen staff talking about the minister's order of lizard tongue soup which disgusts everyone else..."
And there's always the trusty "Well you can certainly try..."
Yes, and when the table is going to do something no rational person would even consider: yes, and have you/has everyone brought a backup character?
@@Bacon_and_Busch oof
that's called "yes, but", which is an equally good tool. same with "no, but" or "no, and"
the important thing is to not have "yes" or "no" lead to nothing unless you don't want it to lead to something. "yes, and" leads to a creative decision being more narratively rewarding than it just going through, "yes, but" lets hubris feel like an actually tangible thing in the game, "no, but" leads to opportunities to flesh out your world (ie: "you can't use a gun, but there *are* special wands that rely on physical mana-holding stones, which you could treat like a gun with ammunition. they're in this faraway village, wherein a powerful organization of monsters have taken over. you'll have to save the clerk to get your gun-wand."), and "no, and" lets you really punish terrible decisions and make it feel like your characters can really mess up in ways that ripple out
if you were to tie this back to something mechanical, daggerheart's hope/fear system makes these sorts of things have a bit of a more tangible reason than just "reasoning" for going the way they do, and thus, the aspects of roleplay like rule of cool, punished hubris,
"no" as a shutdown or "yes" as a "fine, sure, it happens, what now" are going to lead to decisions feeling like they don't actually matter to the overall narrative. these four narrative rules are what's important to crafting a more spontaneous, player-driven narrative. "yes, and" being the only one that people share on youtube was an attempt to prevent toxicity, i assume.
You say oof but it happened at my table. They found the equivalent of a magical nuke outside of their understanding. The arcabust git a nat 20 on a knowledge check to understabd its function
I flat out told him he discovered it's a bomb large enough to level the whole city in one blast.
He immediately wanted to take it apart..with both knowledge of how the device works. Kept insisting even thiugh I said anything but a nat 20 to disarm through sheer luck means boom. He said I was bluffing and kept trying to do it until the other players got up to leave the table.
@@justenoughrandomness8989
“Well, you can certainly try…” needs to be accompanied by a devious smile
Ginny and her greatsword. Truly one of the love stories of our time.
isn't that a longsword?
I dunno I think it’s pretty great
It is a great sword tho
@@GinnyDi got the jokes!
Yes. It’s a sword
I especially liked the part about emphasizing that the player usually isn't stupid if they suggest a bad idea, it's just a miscommunication between DM and player to how they see the scene. Far too many DMs are misers with information. There is a fifth terrible DM option beyond the YANB grid, and that's the vague "well you can *try* to poison him", but not giving the player any extra information about how difficult this task seems.
One important lesson I learned: giving the players more information almost always leads to a more enjoyable experience.
But with more information we might miss out on things like this gem from an RPG session from my childhood...
After a short but frenzied melee in the forest at the edge of Glenn Hollow, Justin and Max try to justify their killing of what the GM considered a "key" NPC...
Justin: How many people did he kill with that blast?
Jim: None!!!
Max: But what about that shower of limbs? (the NPC had teleported in 'causing a shower of limbs with his arrival')
Jim: TREE limbs!
And sometimes, the lvl3 players are told the caravan they're looking at consists of:
-Six heavily armed orcs
-Four elite drow guards
-Two drow priestesses
Yet they think it's a good idea to attack.
Any dungeon master who isn’t willing to give the player as much information as necessary is just trying to screw people over. I always try to make sure that my players are very informed within reason about what they’re about to do. Call me crazy, but I don’t think it’s fun to lie to your players. Sure if they fail a perception check or an investigation shack they may not know the whole story but I won’t actively lie to them. Mainly because I want them to come back next week.
Sometimes a DM gives too much information. That DM is me. Apparently telling my players there is only one bridge in this city as most citizens can fly was somehow too much information to take in, leading to the players somehow missing that the citizens can fly... and trying to push a load of them off of a tower. 🤷♂️
@@markbaker465 With that sort of thing it helps to reinforce the information as much as possible. Memory is retained by repetition after all.
The idea behind "Yes, and" is when you're doing improv and your scene partner says, "I have a gun!", you shouldn't say, "No you don't." Because it means the scene hasn't gone anywhere, and you've made their idea into a nonstarter.
However in a roleplaying situation, the scene is already set. You've created the world and circumstances around the players, and it's their part to "Yes, and" the scenario you've presented them. Likewise, the rules constrain what can and can't be done. You're player can't say "I have a gun!" unless there actually is a gun in their inventory. As both the one setting the scene and the one arbitrating the rules, you do in fact have to say no sometimes.
But this isn't entirely true. If there's an abandoned desk in an old building, I may have planned on whether or not there is a clue in the desk, but if the player asks something off the wall, like "Is there a red pen in the desk?" I don't have a background "reality" to fall back on. Even if I wrote "standard old desk stuff" on a sheet somewhere, that may or may not include a red pen. And "my character takes exactly 47 cents out of his pocket" is something that may or may not be possible, even if we know he has exactly $1.95 based on the character sheet.
"yes, and" can be used as a way to force people in to a situation that they are uncomfortable with. I love the focus on being placed on "help them achieve" or something to move the scene along.
There's also the cousin to "yes, and" which is "yes, but", and both advances the scene while keeping things within scope.
To use your example, if having a gun would ruin the scene, you could respond "Yes, but it's a water gun". This both solves the impending issue while giving your partner something to work with (eg: why do they have a water gun? Why are they attempting violence with such an obvious unfitting tool? etc.) It also politely reminds them they've jumped the shark and should rein things back in.
Professional improviser and coach for 16 years, dnd player for 3.
I think "Yes, and" is one of the most misunderstood rules in improv. "Yes, and" relates to acknowledging the reality of the scene and playing within the same setting. For example "this house is old" - "yes, and it might be haunted", is a good example of this, because both players agree on the reality of the house.
"Yes, and" doesn't mean everything in the scene is possible. It also doesn't mean that characters should agree on the same issue. Conflict and misunderstandings exist in real life, therefore they should exist in your improv too. In your rubber duck factory example, the second character could be happy working there instead of being distressed. That would not be a denial, in improv terms. Players agree, characters don't.
Hope this clarifies "yes, and"-ing a bit.
I listen to a lot of improv comedy, and there is no greater screw you than "yes, this house is old and I heard you say earlier that you wrote a poem/song about how old it is!"
Almost never builds the scene and accomplishes little more than putting someone on the spot. Which sometimes works, if the performers have very good relationships and it's used sparingly, but overall..
I came here to say just this and you did it earlier and better than I could have. It's a framework for players to build a common reality
Was Michael Scott right about adding a gun to a scene.
yeah I hard disagree with her take. fundamental misunderstanding of "yes and". "No, but" is perfectly valid and helpful in both improv and dnd when done correctly.
@@paperip1996 I hear you there, and at the same time I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Adversarial improv players might try to dunk on one another by making a "pimping" move like you suggest. In some performances, that'll get a hit with the audience both for being fairly fourth-wall breaking and for revealing that antagonism which can be pretty unexpected.
A good team, however, is playing this meta level for the audience just the same as the direct scenes. Maybe you make someone sing a song because they're actually a really great singer and it's fun to send them opportunities. Or maybe they're a really *bad* singer, but they also like playing low status and failing because it always gets a laugh.
In my personal style, I'd argue that the fourth wall breaking moves like this one-moves where there's absolutely no grounded reason for a player to call for a song-are kind of lame. I also think pimping a teammate and making them personally uncomfortable as a player is Not Fun. But maybe this is a moment to establish a base reality that the characters are in a musical and everyone should get prepared for lots of singing!
At this point, it's a really powerful move to "yes, and" the call out to song. Whether you're good at it or not, sending another song back to your teammate or just reaching for other tropes from musical theatre will seriously strengthen this choice and likely make for a good show.
My player: what do you mean the royal advisor can't sit?
Me, sweating: well I've been watching this video that said your campaign should have no butt... *nervously checks notes*
Your mind is so beautiful
@@drakeoh2 That's one unusual compliment, thank you!
common rookie mistake 😂
It's good to see a high profile RPG influencer making this point -- over the last few years professional actual play shows have heavily affected some people's expectations about how games should be played and how GMs should run their games, and many of those assumptions & expectations (such as "yes, and") can be really unhelpful in the home games & FLGS pickup games most people play in. And, as a management consultant, it's nice to see the YNAB grid... there really is a 2x2 matrix for everything
This is a very important point. Actual play games are, in large part, a performance for the audience - player/dm enjoyment is important but it's not the main aim!
It's a small but extremely impactful difference.
@@GinnyDientertainingly, I recognize YNAB as ... You Need A Budget.
As a fellow management consultant I am partial to a 2x5 or even a 4x5, then again I do problem analysis rather than game theory most of the time. I think providing enough detail for players to understand how the world works to an internally consistent ruleset is far more important than improv flow.
Then again, I find narrative to be more a product of play than an objective. Also making sure there is enough blank or plain space between high impact things happening seems to make the game more engaging. A lot of DMs seem to be obsessed with action movie pacing in a genre of games that needs lulls for character development. WOTC's obsession with 6 combats a day doesn't help.
"Sometimes you need a dagger."🤣
😂
@@DannyboyO1 looks like a short sword next to Ginny
😘👌SO well delivered
Dagger. Deals 1d4 damage. Fireball, though.
I was expecting her to pull out a battleaxe or a crossbow or something.
All excellent points, and I'd add (yes, and...) that a game in which every player idea works (even with complications) as long as the dice land rights is sort of like a game in which the DM *always* contrives to let players win every combat. Pretty soon the satisfaction of succeeding is leached away: You don't get to feel all that clever about your creative solution to a problem if ANYTHING you said would have worked with a good roll. It's when you hear why your first couple ideas won't work and then come up with an innovative way to get around those obstacles that you get to feel like your ingenuity actually matters to the game. If the content of your solution doesn't matter, because good and bad ideas equally get a "yes, and" then ultimately you're just playing "roll to see if the RNG allows you to progress."
This is a great point too!
Just "yes, and"-ing everything really does take away from the satisfaction of a good plan well executed
@@normative I had never thought of that but it’s amazing
But isn’t RNG the normal way RPGs resolve tests where the outcome isn’t guaranteed?
@@Wilhuf1Yes, but sometimes the outcome should be a guaranteed "no."
@@HSuper_Lee Agreed . My take on it is to give the players the agency to try. And guaranteed failure could be an outcome. Generally I prefer having agency when I play and of course permitting it as a GM.
An incredibly based take and something I've learned over time. There's a time for a hard no. Contextual, yes, but they do exist. Hell yeah, let's go.
YNAB
Can we use that as a name for a fiend pretty please with d4s on top
Based on what?
In my opinion as a DM, if you need to say no then someone has *already* done something wrong. If your players are playing well and you are informing them correctly then you should *never* have to say no.
I feel like that's a wet blanket statement though. Not that you're being a wet blanket, I just thought it was clever.
Now, this is more hyperbolic than most use cases, but like, what if the requested task or action just plain can't be done? Barbarian wants to hold concentration whilst raging, ranger wants to surfboard on their armadillo familiar, etc? Imo no has a place. It's the same use case for failure versus success.
@@garrettsweet9826 There's a reason we're playing an RPG with rules, after all. It's what separates us from children playing pretend. If you keep trying to do impossible things and expecting the DM to allow it, you just become the kid no one wanted to play with.
7:09 The "sometimes they are not stupid, they just can't read your mind" is very true 😅
In the first campaign I played, we were playing a certain vampire campaign and were down one PC who was abducted by an Aboleth. *In order to give them back to us, the Aboleth asked us to go on a suicide mission:* to bring back ALIVE (so they could feed on her mind) the evil witch that lived in the nearby bog, that we already knew was VERY powerful (for those who know what I'm talking about, yes, it was Baba Lysaga). *As expected, our characters were on edge, trying to sneak into the bog, expecting it to be riddled with traps and watchful familiars.*
That was when our DM describes how we see a light, blinking. Our PCs immediatly hide and guard up. We ask what happens to the light after we hide. The DM says it just keeps blinking.
Us players speculate amongst ourselves it might be some kind of detection ward, like a magical flashlight, and that we should sneak up on it.
As we close in, we ask about 3 times what we see, and the DM answers about the same everytime "it seems like there's someone there making the light". In our heads, considering we came here alone without telling anyone and this is a place nobody dares come close to, we assume it was an enemy.
*Only after we jumped them and attacked, the DM describes it was a young woman. Suddenly, a pair of were-ravens (who we helped before in a previous quest) who apparently were following us without saying anything, came down screaming "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! YOU KILLED HER!".*
Long story short, the were-ravens, after we helped them, did say they would help us if we ever needed. Apparently, without telling us, they sent her alone to scout the area and she was supposed to fill us in on the situation. To reiterate, we never told them we were going there. It seems they just kept following us from the sky without our knowledge and never approached us. *The light was from a lantern she would cover with a cloth to make a blinking signal, but none of us got that and were vocally talking amongst ourselves it seemed like something magical in nature from the description.* In the end, we used the only diamond we had access to to revivify her, and from then on we lost much favor with the were-ravens.
I argued for a whole hour with the DM on how unclear the description was and that they had many chances to clarify it considering how clearly we, as players, did not understand what they described.
*In any case, that experience is why now, no matter who I play with, I tend to ask several times for clarification on what the person is INTENDING to describe, including whether or not they are intentionally making it vague.* Because no matter how much you think you understand the prompt, there's a non-zero chance the situation is wildly different from what you might have gotten from the description.
Ginny ripped the wings off a 🧚♀️ fairy to make earrings. 😢
No fairies were harmed in the making of this video!!
As a fairy I can confirm no fairies were harmed in the making of the video.
@@GinnyDi that's what they always say...
@@GinnyDi That we know of...
Lies and slander. We know Ginny always gets her fairy wings ethically sourced.
As a professional improv teacher/director I approve this message. "Yes and" can often result in as many unintended consequences as it fixes, even in the improv world. At my theater we've sort of replaced the "yes and" mantra with the phrase "see what others are doing and help them do it". Ginny points out a useful to understand difference between TTRPGs and improv theater when she points out that players don't always see the same things the GM is hoping they're seeing. Her grid of yes/no and/but is a wonderful way of explaining some of the tools at your disposal as a GM to help your players better see the world you are trying to paint.
I frequently tell my players "let me know what you're trying to do, and I will help you do it." These are the main characters in my story; I want them to be flashy, effective and utterly cool just as much as their player does. Unfortunately, my group is entirely chaos gremlins and/or poster squirrels for ADHD so none of them has any idea what they're actually trying to do.
I feel like a lot of people forget that “Yes, And” comes from improv **comedy.** if you aren’t aiming for a comedic tone, why would you assume that tool is the best fit?
THANK YOU!
"Yes, and" is a concept used in situations other than comedy. It can also be a tool for sharing ideas, team building, and managers/executives to improve their communication skills.
You can absolutely use "yes, and" in a dramatic narrative. BUT! you need everyone on the table to be on the same page, and the more improv you get, the more derailing it's gonna get if players are "yes, and"-ing out of nowhere, with nothing to bring to the situation and derailing it more than anything else.
(On another note on the good use of "yes, and": I'm following an actual-play made by French comedians in which the players that aren't in a scene often improv background characters... Which usually is wonderful, great comedy. But lately they've been WILD with the improv both in term of the tone used and the importance of the characters they hijack, for example making secondary characters absolute bimbos when the intent was that they were more than decent vampire hunters and end up stretching a ten minutes scene to a whole hour. And for me, that was going too far, even the GM commented that they barely finished a scene that episode)
@@sirturtle2839 sure, it CAN be used in different contexts but that doesn’t change that the primary use of it is to constantly up the scene. If you’re going for a grounded tone, too many yes ands will quickly wreck that tone
it isn't used in improv comedy alone. Improvised one-hour dramas use the same principle.
"Know the rules before you break the rules" is an important concept here. "Yes and" is a very useful rule for beginners (especially in comedy improv - perhaps less so in D&D), but that doesn't mean you are absolutely bound by it if you know a better way in a given situation.
It's the Chesterton's Fence principle. Know why the rule is there before you take it down. :)
Improv acting is incredibly hard and a lot of people don't understand that
The most important advice I give to players in my games is “creativity cannot be found on your character sheet.” Instead of seeing character sheets and options as examples of possible play, players see them as exhaustive; if it isn't on their sheet, they can’t do it. But is that really true? No! Whether you want to give a roll for the players to do the thing they want to do or just let them succeed on the action, they are in control of their own behaviors as players.
My players have no trouble with creativity. Their weak points are making decisions and having to be reminded that their characters are subject to the laws of the land.
In my campaigns, I have adventurer oversight boards that reward good behavior like following local laws and leaving a good impression on the locals. They will also only reward the good members of a party at first to see if the worse members will fall in line, but then they’ll stop rewarding anyone if the entire party isn’t compliant. I’ll also say that this group is pretty easy to spice up with some internal corruption if you ever want members to accept bribes from players to hide their actions.
This is why I frankly enjoy rules lite. Polyhedrals are such fun little dice but the most fun I've ever had playing has been with d6 systems.
@@LunamrathP I used to enjoy playing with a rainbow of D12 and starting sessions by saying things like, ok, today the red die is lucky and you'd best avoid sevens if you can. You have all the fun of rolling fistfuls of dice, but you're never actually pinned down by a result ;).
This is why I prefer SWADE now... Though players don't seem to grasp the creativity of simple alter skill lists....
it's the BAYN of problem players
"The YNAB" okay i KNOW this wasn't intentional but that's the same acronym as a budgeting app i use (You Need A Budget) and when i tell you seeing that was such a jumpscare 😭
SAME tho. 😆 Love YNAB!
I knew I was going to like this video just from the title. Excellent way to apply "Yes, but" to the common advice to "Yes, and."
Yep I totally agree, I had a player who always tried to cheat at the game, to make things fair I would give a little leeway but not a lot, which resulted in some really creative plays.
He had a "summon furniture" gem that I made for a home decor segment of a homebrew, and one time he used it to summon a bed under him to break his fall. Awesome use, really creative!
But he also tried to argue that he could make a grappling hook out of it. Hard no lololol, we all had a little laugh about it
Yes! And I think constantly saying 'yes' to ideas actually makes players *less* creative. They realize they can get lazy and not think so hard about their ideas.
It's a fine line though because you don't want to say 'no' so often that they give up!
Thanks you for providing a balanced take on the improv side of DMing- when “yes, and” is treated like gospel, it can give the impression that it’s never ok to say “no” to the chaos gremlin at your table.
I love the ongoing Sword bits, but I think Dagger deserves to come out to play more!
Saying no is also part of the role of a fair DM. No but is a good tip. I like the expanded grid.
Just be mindful that players never say their favorite moment of a session was when you shot down their idea. Default to yes.
@@kotor610 ideas being rejected is simply part of the teambuilding and decision-making process and doesn't just amount to "shooting down their idea". As DM you arbitrate what can and can't be done given the rules, the setting, and the way the idea is posited to you. You can - and in some cases actually should - say outright that an idea, as presented, won't work. Smearing ice cream on a gear won't make it spin by itself. If you were to rephrase or reinterpret that idea and bounce it back at the player, you can have a discussion and reach a more agreeable approach that works better. Might not work 100%, but would _work,_ as compared to the original. So in this case maybe you use the ice cream to lubricate the gear for a round or whatever.
I'm busy on Tuesday, rain check for foam swords? I'll bring the cardboard shields too when I come.
It's so hard to get everyone together to play foam swords nowadays 😑
@@GinnyDi Welll...... it might be that streak of competitive blood lust you get..... Food for thought! 😀
I saw this title and I absolutely agree with you. Both DMs and players need to know that they can always say no, especially if a someone is going too far, acting in bad faith, or being inappropriate. If your player says “I, a 376 year old elf with a wife and two adult children, roll to seduce the 15 year old prince” you don’t have to say “yes, and”, you just say “no, never do that again”. Putting your foot down and saying no is not bad DMing or bad role playing.
For a second I thought you were mad because the dude has a wife and kids, and then I realized that you said "15 year old". I was like "what, a player isn't allowed to cheat on their fake wife? Oh wait..."
@@spongecakes1986 yeah I added the wife and kids bit as a way to drive home that the hypothetical PC here is grown adult with no business being romantically involved with a minor. Whether or not infidelity should be a Yes or a No would probably depend on context. If it’s only going to affect that PC and their storylines, I’d say go for it. If it’s going to fuck over the rest of the party, like say if the spouse is a powerful mage or politician that the whole party relies on and losing their favor could fuck up the whole party, I would say no or at least ask the other players if they’re okay with that risk. If the spouse is another PC who isn’t ok with dealing with in game infidelity or if someone at the table is dealing with a cheating partner irl then I would say no.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 yeah definitely. And although 15 is the age of maturity for dragonborns (I don't know about other races but I love dragonborns), I'd still say no to that cause it's like an 80 year old man getting with an 18 year old. I'm currently playing a bard who cheats on his girlfriend all the time because he doesn't think he's good enough (of course creating a cycle of self loathing), but the girlfriend isn't even on the same continent as us, so I think I'm fine for now. I'll try not to get too out of hand with the NPCs though
"No, and ... I need your IRL full legal name."
"There's a list on the internet I need to check."
This is less a case of yes versus no and more about setting boundaries for sensitive subjects in general. It's pretty easy for D&D to go into some pretty dark places. It is after all a game of adventurers that walk around with swords and murder things (sometimes people), and they're supposed to be the good guys.
"No but...almost certainly not sir mix-a-lot's favorite option" 😂 It's true, she can not lie.
This is the comment I needed today, fighting a cold.
That was so subtle it almost got by me. Thankfully I made my perception check.....😂
I was literally looking through the comments hoping someone else mentioned this. I died laughing when she said that
Last session I was asked “Can we make nukes?” “Could we send this cat into low Earth orbit?” “Could we turn the cat into a nuke?” “If we can’t turn the cat into a nuke, can we launch it at God? From low Earth orbit?”
You know for comedy purposes, I think those were some good questions.
You might have just changd my mind about space sci-fi rpgs...
@@magdalena1752 this was set in medieval fantasy
@@thod-thod *Was*
@@thod-thod the only difference between medieval fantasy and space sci-fi is a couple science books and a couple wired machines
I think it's good to realize that "yes and" isn't necessarily literal! I really like how the RPG Gameplay Guide by James D'Amato frames it. The "yes" is about accepting that someone has introduced something that they think is cool, or interesting, or funny. And the "and" is about adding on, building off of, and acknowledging their contribution, making connections with what YOU like. You can say "NO!" and do both of those things! I think the YNAB tool is a cool way to frame those ideas for cute lil babby GMs! And other players too?
This is spot on. I saw someone else mention that "yes and" is more like giving your scene partner a gift. You can use the gift however you like, but the important part is not to reject it outright.
My favorite version of “Yes, but” is explaining the stakes to your player. “Yes you can try to poison the goblet but if you roll bad, you will be spotted and probably arrested.” If the player goes through with it, the added tension is fun for everyone!
I think the spectrum would benefit from one more box: "Yes, if...", meaning the players need to change the conditions in order to have a shot at success. In your example, maybe the table is currently too well-guarded for a single Sleight of Hand check, but maybe they could succeed if there was a distraction (the gnome starts a fight! the Fighter and the Bard start a juggling routine involving axes!) or the Rogue finds an excuse to approach the head table (steal a waitstaff disguise! Find a mid-tier nobleman to take you up for an introduction!).
There are times when I would say no to a simple skill check, but "let's see what the dice say" to some creative problem solving.
I'd categorize that under "yes, but" - as in "yes, but only if you can create a distraction first." But hey, use whatever combination of words and boxes helps you play better!
The problem is, "yes, and" really just means one thing: don't reject your partner's premise. Go with it. It's more of a principle than anything else
What a great video! Having listened to some really good Improvisers talk about their process in interviews I think most people don't understand (and I'll include past me here) is that "Yes, And" is actually very complex and nuanced. It means accepting the reality the initiator has introduced and building on it, not just literally saying yes to every in-character choice without challenging it. In my opinion too many of us have an awareness that most of the popular Actual Play Casts have professional improv backgrounds but we don't realize how sophisticated the rules of improv are allowed to be. There's literally an episode of D20's "Escape from the Bloodkeep" where Amy Vorpahl pitches a WILD use of her Cleric's healing abilities and Brennan Lee Mulligan listens patiently before saying "I'm going to FULLY disallow that." I LOVE the visual of the YNAB square and I'm kind of wondering if a trained, experienced improviser might look at YNAB and consider it all part of the correct understanding of "Yes, And." Thanks Ginny, excellent as always 👍
Ive been doing improv for a couple of years and a lot of people seem to misunderstand what "Yes And" actually means.
It's not asking you to literally say "yes", it's asking you to accept the reality that your scene partner is offering and developing the scene from it.
So yes, i think Yes And has its place in a DM's toolbox sometimes, but I think it's a much more essential tool for players who receive offers from the DM constantly.
@@ahand091 that’s a really good point.
One very helpful way of making this easier is to not think of it as improvisating, but as adjudicating. You are using your judgment of the situation to determine whether an action is possible or not, and what are its consequences.
Only when the players deviate so hard of the path that you need to totally redesing the adventure on the fly, that i would call it improvisation
Improv acting is incredibly hard and a lot of people don't understand that.
Not only do most people not understand that good improv is incredibly difficult, it’s compounded by most players simply not having either the ability or desire to try it. Read the room…read the table…read your players - then decide if it’s doable in your game. There’s a reason why a great, talented character-driven RPG group is a rare find - and if you’re in one, hold on tight!
Especially for those of us that are introverts.
Speaking as someone with a lot of maths/comp sci experience, _most specialised skills_ are much harder than most people assume lol, but the creative arts do seems pretty susceptible to that pitfall
@@Imperial_Squid I think the humanities in general are more susceptible because there's less direct and obvious feedback that you did it wrong or right. A beginner writing code will know immediately when they've made a terminal error. The output will look bizarre, the code throws an exception, or it won't even compile. Conversely, an actor or comedian might not find out until told by a coach or an unhappy audience, and even then there's leeway because tastes are so subjective.
D&D doesn't require improv acting. What it DOES require is for players and GM to improvise and interact with the campaign world.
If you really don't want to act, you can always start with the magic words "My character tries to do X" instead of acting out X yourself.
It might not be quite as entertaining as good improv acting, but as long as someone can get the point across how they want their character to interact with the world as described by the GM, that's sufficient.
The BANY Grid (But, And, No, Yes)
It's not Zanny, but Ban...oh whatever.
Yes, and
Yes, but
No, and
No, but
"(Insert player name) Roll me a d4!"
Always gets the table riled up, and the dice gods can take more weight off your shoulders!
It's important to say "No".
I have a player whose character was a established member of a warrior guild, and came into the party as a later addition.
As an ad-lib, he told the rest of his party "If you take up jobs with my guild, you'll be paid with a great deal of platinum for each job".
I never told him that. And this was a level 6 party.
It's important to say "No".
"Roll insight (low DC).... You look over this guy's armor and guess he's probably never held a platinum coin." Or some variation based on their character description. It doesn't shut down the possibility of taking guild missions, puts the pay expectations at a more reasonable level, and if the player chooses can be a fun foundation for them to play the boastful bragger.
One thing to note about "yes and" is that it doesn't necessarily mean the second person _has to agree_ with the first. "Yes and" is more about accepting the *premise* the first person lays out.
For example, if the first person sets the scene as, say, a pair of laborers at a medieval soap factory, it's not really "yes and"-ing it to carry the scene saying how lucky they are that that time traveling stranger gifted them a space ship.
Conversely, if we still use the above-mentioned soap factory example, and the first person talks about how much fun they are having, it's still "yes and"-ing the premise if the second person starts to grumpily list all the things that suck doing that job. Then it's a scene where two laborers talk about their job.
This is a common thing with oracles for solo play, you'll typically ask the oracle a yes or no question and roll some dice and get some variation on this exact spread of options. Playing a decent amount of solo roleplaying legitimately made me a better GM and was really useful for honing my improvisation skills when running games with other people.
Sometimes you need to say no to players, like when they try to adopt a hound of Tinderlous.
Thanks for this advice. When I started DM'ing I watched a lot of videos. This "yes, and" advice was paired with "never tell your players no". If I followed that advice, my players would be firing off 2 leveled spells, drinking a potion, and moving anywhere on the battlefield all in one turn by now.
"Never tell your players no" is crazy. I would say a better way to put it is "Try to tell your players yes more than no."
"D&D is not improv" is the best advice you can possibly give someone. D&D is a game.
There are similarities but it is distinctly different in many ways!
@@GinnyDi Not least of which is you have a DM! Even if you leave the game rules aside, roleplaying within a context set by someone else is a major difference from back-and-forth between equals within the story.
@@epicazeroth plus if your going role play you mind as well just get rid of the dice and the board
Finally, a dungeon tuber that acknowledges the space in between "yes and" & "no that isn't possible".
I myself tend towards the "yes but" side of things, though the but part is usually context of the DC of the check.
The "You can certainly try" option is a nice eacape hatch from the YNAB framework. As in "before we talk about the outcome, are you certain you want to commit to this?" - neother yes or no, but "are you asking seriously? Give me more justification"
I am a fan of this option. I like Giny's grid, but often I am unsure myself if something will work or not. My only caveat is that you should give the player a little information regarding how difficult the attempt might be. Not giving them the DC but hinting at it.
I also like the idea of, where applicable, making a random result roll. Maybe the advisor does not pick up their cup again or their neighbor accidentally takes the wrong cup. If you roll behind your screen the players will know that the plan had a shot and won't feel that you just shut it down because you wanted to railroad them.
I think "you can certainly try" is an invaluable GM tool! But I view it as separate from the decision-making process laid out in this video, because if they try, they're making a roll and you need to be prepared to accommodate the outcome. I don't ever want to allow someone to make a roll for something that I KNOW is impossible, or let them take an action before they understand the context.
To me, "you can certainly try" means letting players attempt something even though they know it's difficult/consequential, whereas the YNAB grid is more about making sure they have the information they need in order to decide IF they want to try it.
I think "you can certainly try", but with an extra step, makes a good "yes, but" option. "Yes, but" there is some obstacle in your way. If they're trying to poison the king's advisor, like in the example in the video, you might point out that there are some guards watching who might get wise to what's going on. Then the player gets to decide what they do to address that obstacle -- maybe they try to act stealthily to avoid the guards' notice, or maybe they create a distraction. That might involve a skill or ability check, but what skill or ability depends on how the player chooses to solve the problem. And then you've established a framework for what the consequences of failure might be.
@rossjennings4755 I like this method also, provide a bit more information and sprinkle in hints on how they can improve the DC of the roll. Then, depending on how the rest has gone, they may still back out and try something else or be sure of their success.
If a player ‘yes and’s a direction you don’t want to go in to, you can recontextualize it by having your character disagree with them.
If a player says “I don’t like the innkeeper he is so stingy and I think he stole my candy!”
You can play along and have the innkeeper be rude, or you could contest the statement with “I saw you eat that candy!”
Improvised character statements can be used to build up the world but it can also be used to flesh out a character ESPECIALLY if another character disagrees with their statement.
Ginny, you're so good at explaining tools like this from new perspectives. I've been hearing (and using) "Yes, and" (and some of its YNAB siblings) for awhile now, but you're the first to really make me think about what each word really represents in the context of play (e.g. And = explain *why* yes/no). Thanks! Never stop swording!
Finally a guide to "Yes, And" I can understand.
I've heard so much about it and thought it was missing out on it. All the guides didn't help me at all. I'm finally relieved to know it was something I have done for years.
I was hoping you'd touch on the reason for 'yes, and' in improv.
'Yes, and' exists to teach people to engage with a scene. This is common with younger people especially, but anyone in improv can do this.
One person sets up a scene with a line "oh man, this drive-through sure is taking forever!" and the other person refuses to engage with that scene, like "we're standing up" or "actually we're eating in" or "I don't want fast food" or whatever. You get the idea.
It's to encourage people to not just say 'no' and refuse to engage with a scene. To say 'yes, and' makes you build on the scene. It's not even that you need to say those exact words, it's a mindset of taking whatever idea the other person has presented (no matter how crazy it is) and rolling with it, and then adding to it. Heightening, often, but not always.
Anyway yeah that's why a dm shouldn't always 'yes, and', because a dm should not always be accepting and engaging anything a player says. The rest of your video stands perfectly.
Maybe people simply need to say - build on this scene - "yes and" is kind of jargon
What I love about Gennie Di is that even when she's wrong, she usually wrong in a way that makes you think.
As others note, "yes and..." in improve is for setting a scene. That makes sense for D&D sometimes. But even if you use "yes and..." for setting the scene, you use rules and narration to resolve the scene.
Example:
GM: You hear eerie from the room
Players: I open the door, is the troll that escaped earlier in the room?
GM: Yes and he's disco dancing...
Then: If the players choose to attack or to dance with the troll or whatever, the players need to describe exactly how they do their action and various rolls need to be made.
So I'd do it different but Gennie forced me to at least think about what I do.
oh my god, i remember literally doodling the yes/and/no/but grid in my own dm notes one time because i was so frustrated at how an improv RP was going. i love hearing that other people do it too!
for me, No And has always been about creating interesting consequences going forward -- opening up alternate pathways in a sort of "failing forward" manner. maybe it's impossible to do that specific thing, but maybe the _way_ that specific thing fails opens up an interesting wrinkle to the encounter in some way -- adds a new enemy or new mechanic to combat, changes the party's understanding of a situation, etc.
I'm glad someone else came to this conclusion! I love using "yes, but" and "no, but" at my table to try and keep the story moving.
As a comedy improvisor, I have found the most valuable D&D tips to be "Listen to your fellow players, Commit to your fellow players, Support your fellow players (GM included)". Pay attention to them and help them out. Take the game just as seriously as they do.
Some other important ones: enjoy watching your fellow players succeed, and also know that failure can be just as, if not more fun, than success. It's ok to lose.
Glad to see someone saying this. To me a huge part of the joy of D&D, and games in general, is pushing at the boundaries, seeing what's possible and what's not, figuring out how to surmount the constraints and accomplish seemingly impossible things. If everything I want to do is already possible by default, it can feel a little pointless.
My girlfriend an I are part of Loose Moose Theatre in Calgary, Which was founded in part by Keith Johnstone (one of the creators of Improv) And even he would say that Saying yes isn't always the right thing. It is good for newbies as a tool to keep them from slamming the brakes on (usually out of fear) but as saying yes can actually be refusing an offer.
take for example a scene set with 2 people in a dark alley, where two people are walking and they encounter a mugger. this mugger pulls a gun and says "do you want me to kill your friend?" Saying Yes (while it may be funny and get a laugh) is actually blocking the offer, but saying "NO NO Wait, I'll do anything you want!" is more accepting because it pushes the story forward.
That is the real Litmus test in Improve "which answer pushes the story forward" and that should also be the goal of a good DM
"Do you want me to kill your friend?"
"Yes, and... er... and have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"
Personally, I never interpreted "Yes, and" as literally saying the words "Yes, and" in response, but rather the acceptance of the scenario. Even if you tell the mugger, "No," you have still accepted the premise that a mugger is threatening you. To me, "Yes, and" simply means accepting the scenario and building on it.
In D&D, even that looser interpretation is often too far. "I grab a random person on the street and make an intimidation check to get their money," doesn't need to be met by the DM with any acceptance of the scenario. It's completely fine for the DM to say, "The streets are empty at this time of day."
Players acting in good faith is so important. It's the difference between players trying to participate in the setting, and players treating a campaign as their playground.
I've had to walk (after trying to make things work!) on a few groups over the (many) years DMing. Like players landing their airship at a city in a steampunk setting, and immediately just having the idea of "nah we don't want to help the city, we want to take it over!" And all six of them decide to fight the people at the docks. And then the closest city guard squad. And I keep letting them roll checks to suggest "based on your knowledge, the city does have some pretty powerful mages protecting the royal family, and you're likely drawing their attention". Sure if they tried to fly off then it wouldn't have made sense. Cannons / magic / pursuing ships would have taken them down. But I would have let them retreat and just have to leave the area. I could transplant most of the campaign to another nation if I needed to.
And the moment they all got hit with various disabling spells out of nowhere after like 10 rounds of causing chaos and thrown in prison, even then I was willing to continue the campaign, but it'd mean they'd lost their airship, all their loot, and would now be following a totally new campaign that I'd have to figure out. I was even willing to run an evil campaign where they work as bloodthirsty mercenaries who hate the ruling family or something.
But no. They were angry that I took their toys away and that there were consequences to their actions. They couldn't understand why they couldn't just do what they want / fight an entire army and win / etc. I tried to point out that I'd been going soft on them the entire battle and they really should have just gotten TPK'd already, but.
And you just can't work with that kind of player. I had to end the game a couple hours early and let them know in an email that they'd be needing to find another DM.
This is great advice, and something I'll really need to try and keep in mind - I'm not afraid to say no to an idea, but it does feel bad when you have to do. Coming up with the "and" or "but" twists on the fly is still going to be a challenge but I do need to try and improv more/better.
I totally get where you’re coming from!
I often find it helpful to consider why I need to say no. What’s the obstacle or blocker to their idea? Maybe there’s a watchful dog guarding the entrance or a 300-foot drop they can’t cross. Once I can clearly identify the issue, it’s much easier to come up with a “no, but"!
If I’m struggling to think of something on the spot, I’ll ask my player a question like, “What’s your goal here?” or “How do you intend to achieve that?” This not only buys me a bit more time to think but also gives me insight into their thought process!
There are so many things in improv class that help you DM more than the “yes and” notion. So much of improv training is just getting out of your head, listening, choosing to care, accepting the gifts of information and emotion, and making strong choices. Improv is like an exercise that builds muscles you use in different ways at the table.
If I may, I humbly submit "YNAB" be as pronounced "why-knob". It's got all the letters and sounds just close enough to "why not?" to satisfy my bad-pun-loving heart 🤣
In some contexts, it could be short for "Why (are you being such a) Knob?" 😉
Thanks for this! Too many players think that "player agency" translates to "I should be able to get away with any random nonsense that pops into my pointy head". If it doesn't pass the "smell test", you ain't doing it, no matter how many Nat 20s you roll.
Sometimes, you MUST say, "No, and I do not WANT you to completely derail my game by doing this sort of thing," or "No, and this is NOT an evil campaign. We can DO an evil campaign, but EVERYBODY at the table must agree to it BEFORE we begin the evil campaign."
The second one there, about evil campaigns, should only be said aloud at the table AFTER two things have happened. 1) The character has done some questionable acts in game, and met with some in-game consequences, and 2) the DM has had a chat with the player about their goals for the game ("This is supposed to be a heroic game. Why is your character insisting on mugging old ladies? You've already broken your holy symbol. What next?!") and why you do not want to allow this derailment at this particular table, in this particular campaign.
And finally, there is the dreaded, "No, and you are banned from my table. That behavior is WRONG and INAPPROPRIATE and HURTS THE OTHER PLAYERS." In game, this can be stated as, "No, and rocks fall, and ONLY YOU die. Everyone else is left entirely unscathed. Your body is immediately destroyed and cannot be resurrected, but all your gear is unharmed and ready to be looted by your party members. After all, they know that putting it to full use is what you would have wanted."
The "No, this is not an evil campaign" and "No, that behavior is unacceptable at this table" are responses to PLAYERS operating in BAD FAITH.
The "No, and I do not want you to completely derail my game by doing that sort of thing," is in response to a player operating in good faith, but you can't think of an in-game explanation, at the moment, for why you can't "go with the flow," when they present Door #37, when you have only prepared Doors #1-5.
"No, and I have NO IDEA how to deal with the thing you just tried, so props for creativity, but I can't keep up with it, so please color within the lines for the present, and I'll look into it for a future session. IF I can figure out a way to go there, I'll let you know, OK? In the meantime, it's just beyond my skill as a DM to run a Stilton-fueled fusion reactor that is NOT magical and has some sort of scientific basis for NOT setting off "Detect Magic" alarms all over town." Or, "No, and I have built an entire continent and an ocean surrounding it. I am NOT going to allow you to dig a hole all the way to the other side of the world and come out upside down on an entirely new continent that I just pull out of my hat TODAY." both can be applied to overzealous players who are operating in good faith, and just don't understand your limitations.
very raw idea for a board game (dungeon crawler type) mechanic to resemble D&D. have a D4 die where each side corresponds to a square of the YNAB grid and perhaps 4 decks of cards (1 for Y, 1 for N, 1 for A and 1 for B) and then you draw 2 cards, 1 from either the Y or N and 1 from either the A or B, depending on what your D4 determined. anyway, your YNAB idea is great.
4:13 the improv punnet square?
Best comment in my heart
Because YNAB (You Need A Budget) is taken
This video added even more to my appreciation for Blades in the Dark, because the position/effect system already does a lot of this heavy lifting while (properly used) almost guaranteeing that a player will never feel cheated to discover that the situation was not as amenable to their idea as they thought. If a player asks to make a Finesse roll to poison the vizier's drink and you quote Desperate/Limited when they expected Controlled/Standard, they know long before they're committed that there's a huge mismatch of expectations and they're invited to ask clarifying questions and try to figure out how the situation differs from what they thought and what they can do to tip the odds.
This is why I HATE HATE HATE "you can certainly try". I'm not asking if I'm allowed; I already know I'm allowed in an open sandbox world. I'm asking if my character would think it's a viable option.
AYO CONGRATS ON THE PRODUCT DROP!!!!! SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!!!
Thank you!! 🥰
a fun one before using YNAB (which I love) ask the player "what are you doing as you think about this"? I love taking that outcome and formulate more options for the table and the Player. Great Work.
Sometimes this sort of situation can crop up in player interaction, too! I was playing alongside a friend who said "My character hands you these documents...they're obviously forged."
I think "Hang on a minute, not only did you roll REALLY well on your forging tools, but part of my integration of my dwarf's low INT has manifested through struggling to read anything except Dwarvish. On top of that, he doesn't initally have any reason to suspect you!" I personally rolled an investigation check before responding, and said "Oh, thank you! I didn't know you were set up to make these official documents!"
The other player went "Oh, yeah...definitely..." which, if my dwarf was even remotely suspicious, would have put him on edge, but since he had no reason to be, he wasn't!
And then my character will continue to obliviously give out these documents as if they're official, because he 100% believes they are. It will lead to an interesting character moment if someone manages to pass the 22 DC to notice they're fake...
I think that taking care as a player to make sure you respond to situations in-character, even if you have to go back a bit on what someone else says, can be quite important!
Never DMs but this seems like such good advice actually
Sing it with me: You can't always get what you want... but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need!
Even works for mechanics on a meta level - simply replace "No and" with a "No because" and explain, why something gamebreaking shouldn't be allowed.
As someone who is both a TTRPG player, and a comedy improviser outside the game table, I think this is a great message. In improv, "yes, and" is a straightforward rule for beginners who are just starting to build improv scenes. As an improviser becomes more experienced, I tend to care less about the mechanics of "yes, and" and more about the spirit of "giving gifts" to your scene partner, usually in the form of added information that helps move the scene forward. The examples in this video of "no, you can't poison the cup, but you could get access to the soup bowls" is a great example of "giving a gift" of more knowledge to your players. So yes, I would say this video applies to both TTRPG improv AND comedy improv :)
I'll definitely preorder those cards. Also, I love that you don't just say, "this is bad advice" instead it's more "This is how to make that advice more applicable to more situations" which I appreciate. Also, Sword Friend: +2 longsword, grants advantage on Wisdom Saving throws against loneliness.
I think one of the best "yes, and" campaigns that I've watched and is currently ongoing are Once Upon a Witchlight and Uprooted from the Legends of Avantris team. "Yes, and" can absolutely work if you know the people you're playing with well enough and if they also know the rules the DM is running with. And it can turn into some amazing DnD! I also think that a lot of people out there misunderstand what "yes, and" actually means. It doesn't mean that you get to do whatever the hell you want but it means that you get to work with what you're given in a realistic manner. Again, just look at LoA.
I'm more of a player not a DM but I agree with this advice, also I appreciate the Sir Mix-A-Lot joke
Good video!
I've found myself using "no, but" the longer I GM. Because earlier on, I wanted to do EVERYTHING to make sure my players felt creative and impactful, so I used "yes, and" as much as possible. And just like Ginny said: that ultimately got out of hand and wrecked the game.
Saying "no, but" gives you a chance to focus less on the specific thing the player is trying to do and more on why they're trying to do it and what their end goal is. Their idea of what to do might just be so specific/narrow that it doesn't fit the game, but there's an easier way to get there. You just need to talk it through with your player so you both get what's in the world and what they want to get done.
Improv teacher here --- this video relies on a very popular misconception of what "Yes, And" means and how it should be deployed in improv.
The yes in 'yes, and' simply means that you agree to exist in the same universe as your scene partner. If one actor opens with, "This is my favorite Wendy's," then it's a given that the scene takes place in a Wendy's. The 'yes' here only means that we're affirming we're at a Wendys. And the 'and' only requires you to add a bit of specific information about that Wendy's, "I prefer McDs nuggets, but it's your post-prom meal." A violation of 'yes' here would be, "No, this is an Office Depot." That's a denial -- and a big no-no in improv.
The 'Yes" in 'yes, and' DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE AGREEABLE ALL THE TIME. It does not mean you have to accept any offer. It does not mean your character should constantly be saying "yes.'" At all. You can hate the Wendy's. You can tell your scene partner that the Wendy's is cursed. You can refuse to enter the Wendy's. These are all executions of 'yes, and.'
Hope that clears things up.
I think this video is more a takedown of how "Improv" as a discipline is unnecessary in RPG spaces despite being lauded as the ideal in many parts of those spaces, as well as critiquing it's popular implementation in many RPG communities. It's hard to explain to someone not really familiar with how roleplaying games and their audience have expanded and evolved over the past few years, especially DnD thanks to the like of Critical Role and all that, but a misuse and overuse of stage theater principles and entertainment best practices have really become overbearing in the space. I hope that clears up some of your frustration as well!
I just want to point out that YNAB is an actual acronym for You Need A Budget. Which really should be YNB since articles aren't abbreviated, but I'm not in charge of naming their products.
As a 1e/2e player, I've learned sometimes you gotta just lay the ruling and that's it.
with only "Yes and"
its hard to reach resolution which is why
"I know because"
is also an important improv tool to bring to D&D
I think this is a great tip. I often struggle with telling my players 'no' and it's fantastic to have som tools. Thanks!
I know how you feel! But I just try to remember that sometimes "no" makes for a better story 🥰
I'm SO glad to find someone who echoes all of my sentiments about the oversaturation of improv comedy and stage theater concepts in the RPG space. CR and other shows like it are fantastic, but recognizing that shows and personal games have different atmospheres, goals, and structure is something a lot of people introduced to RPGs by those shows don't often understand. I don't believe capital I Improv experience makes you a better RPG player, and improvisation in the general sense doesn't have much to do with that subset of live performance despite sharing a name. I think a lot of folks have shot their own enjoyment in the foot by trying to capture what they see on the screen and genuinely believing that actors or comedians play the best RPGs inherently due to some skill they have.
The games I have with my friends are some of the most simultaneously dramatic, engaging, hilarious, and impressive feats of storytelling and fun I've ever had despite none of us being trained in any other skills, none of us trying to actively improv our way into a skit or a narrative. All of us just reading the room socially and putting our understanding of what makes RPGs such a special form of entertainment to use. It's hard to put into words, but when you find a perfect group who just gets it on the same wavelength you do, artificial constructs of what "good RPG play" is melt away in favor of that natural and all-importantly comfy dynamic that invalidates a lot of prescriptive "best practices."
You've earned a sub from me, and I hope you keep up the amazing work! More voices like yours in this space, especially the charisma and kindness with which you talk about it, are incredibly important.
“No, and” is dnd lmao. The trick is to find another path, not to think your goal you want to achieve is impossible or that the dm is being unfun
Explanation, elaboration, annotation, and jokes thrown in without disrupting the flow. All in under 10 minutes. Superb video! Very engaging and informative. I look forward to bingeing this content!
Common misconception: "yes and" doesn't mean answering questions with "yes and", it's simply the premise that we all need to agree on a base reality. Dms need to keep the world consistent and players should avoid arguing, with the dm or other players, that things are other than how they've been described. The act of adding new information to the map that hasn't already been stated is totally normal and answeting questions in improv with no is totally normal. If its already been established, for instance, that a dragon doesn't hang out near a town, neither an improvisor nor a dm would say yes there is a dragon because of the inconsistency.
Great video and great advice, even if it doesn't use "yes and" in its original, TECHNICALLY COOORECT context.
i love the idea of telling the players, 'yes, but check to see if you can distinguish between the advisor's wine glass and the king's'
totally stealing it. that kind of situation is also one where i'd ask the player to hide their roll under a cup before they choose a course of action, adding to the tension, uncertainty (and comedy) of the decision point
and yeah, sometimes 'no' is just the most appropriate answer. a straight-up hard 'no'. this is what you do every time you fudge a die roll, afterall - you know the result would suck so you change it for the sake of drama and keeping the game fun
Not sure why I feel the need point out that “YNAB” (pronounced why-nab) is the acronym for a popular budgeting app and stands for You Need A Budget.
I agree with other saying BANY for But And No Yes.
Because it is an excellent budgeting app, and needs pointing out. I did the same thing lol.
@@stacya7627 I saw a BANY comment. I missed yours going through things. It is an awesome app.
Turns out makers of great RUclips videos not always know each other, but yea, I had the same "yes but no, and..." reaction ;)
When I was DMing for Dragonlance and my player found out that the Red Dragon Army had a camp in the woods near the city they were in, I had to say no when they suggested a plan to burn down the entire forest.
No, but has helped me through so many DM moments, especially with my chaotic party. I love them to bits but man do they have crazy ideas.
I fully agree. As a GM we need to improvise based on players actions - but we don't have to "Yes and" everything. If a player asks "Could I reasonably do this" I will have to judge and tell him. If he says "I'm going to do this" I might point out the inherent risk. Maybe give negative modifiers to his dice rolls - or up the DC.
Matt Mercers "You could certainly try" line is part of this. It's a "yes, but" because he's saying "yes, you can try, but it's risky."
As for the "did my father teach me - or do I know something about this" - I usually ask for a roll unless I want the players to have the knowledge. Heck I even gave vague answers to a player who rolled really high on a medicine check, because they are in an unknown land dealing with unknown ailments.
Ginny you have my curiosity with these cards, but I need some example cards before I commit money to them. I play a homebrew system, so compatibility is always a challenge for me 😅
I’m planning a short video that explains the deck and its uses in more detail! I’ll definitely include an example of two in there!
@@GinnyDi Looking forward to it 😁
@@GinnyDi I'm really looking forward to that!
This is something I outlined with and for my players during session 0, and it has been so helpful! I strive to be a DM that promotes open and honest communication (within reason, no spoilers) and this helps provide a lot of context and insight for the options and viability of the world we are building together.
Within 15 seconds I was firing off a comment about "yes, and". But I held off and resigned myself to watch the whole thing before opening my mouth. Love this video. Ginny hit every point I would have made about DMing with control and boundaries. Kudos.
sometimes the DM needs to tell a player "No, thats not possible. You can't make an athletics check to flap your arms and not die of fall damage because you literally jumped off a giant cliff I warned you about."
See, I disagree here. Let them do it and roll if they really want to.
The 'no' comes in when you tell them they didn't survive. It still gives the player agency, despite being a stupid idea.
@@granthamlin8126 I don't think you should ever call for a roll that has no effect. It's just generally bad practice and leads to the "Make an open doors roll to open the doors into the tavern" style of play where you're tossing meaningless rolls around and wasting everyone's time.
@@taragnor What you're describing is completely different though.
Opening a door is usually just that. It would never really need a roll. However, if a player wants to try something, it isn't the DMs job to tell them they can't.
It's up to the player to describe what they are going to do and how they want to do it. As the DM, you can say no if you want, but all that tells the players is that it's a waste of time to try anything out of the ordinary. Again, it's about agency.
Obviously, flapping your arms is a bit of a ridiculous circumstance, but that isn't the point I'm making.
@@granthamlin8126 It's fine to let players do what they want, but don't call for a roll if the roll can't succeed. You'd just declare they tried to do something and it had no effect. "You try to jump to the moon, try your best, but the effort is futile."
Don't call for a roll, it's pointless. What are you going to do if the guy rolls a natural 20? Just tell him he failed anyway? If it's impossible, just be honest and tell the player that outright. Don't bother wasting time with a check to try to create the illusion the bad idea might have worked if only he'd rolled higher.
@@taragnor I'm not calling for a roll, I'm telling them they can if they want.
If you can't be creative, why are you DMing at all?
If the player really, truly wants to try and they actually do it and roll a natural 20... Guess what? You can still be creative and tell them what happens, and there are other things that can happen even if they fail.
This is what I said in a different comment. You guys are all so rigid, and people are getting burned out. In my situation, the player is happy they got to try and a memorable moment was made.
If you don't see that? That's a you problem.
"Yes and" brings me back to my high school theater class, where everytime I introduced a concept there was one lil shit that just went "No".
The YNAB spectrum seems like a good tool to have, but one that should be deployed carefully. There's always that one player that'll try to take a mile when you give them an inch. Congrats on the new item, it IS a big deal to see something you worked hard on out in the real world. Hope it does gangbusters.
hmm, I'm not sure I understand why you think the YNAB grid will let players overreach. in my opinion, it's "yes, and" that allows players to walk all over their DM - being able to say "no" means, quite literally, NOT giving players an inch 😅
@@GinnyDi Fair enough.
I know this as "rolling with it" and some of those scenes can turn out fantastic! But indeed it needs to be organic. You can do weird things like when someone makes up something absurd, even if you aren't the DM yourself, you can just be like "ok man, come out of your fantasy world, we're in Narnia right now, not your silly little fantasy land!"