Questions of Suffering - Timothy Keller [Sermon]
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- Опубликовано: 9 авг 2015
- Tim Keller sermons via Gospel in Life: No book in all of literature addresses the questions of suffering and evil with the spiritual wisdom of the book of Job. In this sermon, Timothy Keller demonstrates how the Christian approach to suffering differs from both cynical and moralistic viewpoints. Christians are called to hold onto the mystery and stay in a relationship with a God we cannot control-but whose goodness we cannot doubt when we truly grasp the Gospel.
Download or gift the sermon on MP3 for free: www.gospelinlife.com/questions...
View the series: www.gospelinlife.com/job-a-pat...
This sermon was preached by Rev. Timothy Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian Church on January 6, 2008.
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"Jesus Christ suffered not so that we will not suffer, but that when we suffer we can become like Him. "
Thank you for that Tim Keller!
All things work for good to be conformed to the likeness of His Son .
Thank you for this sermon it couldn't have come to me except by God making sure I hear it! As last night I had a debate about Jesus to 2 atheists. Now...I am disabled and in chronic pain throughout my whole body and in a wheelchair ! There argument is.... if there was a God why do I suffer so much! And all the evil in the world! I tried to tell them the best way I know how but in the end we had to agree to disagree! And they are happy not believing and living there best life now on earth and if that means there going to hell then so be it they said! It saddens me so much! They honestly think I am mad having my faith! I will continue to pray for them and all the rest of the world that are unsaved!
Hi Nikki,
I believe that these two people were impacted by your trust in God . “Father I pray for the two people Nikki was talking to that you would open their eyes and soften their heart they belong to you not the devil bring them into your kingdom. Deal with them Father go after them for good . Comfort Nikki take away her pain completely and give her joy in Jesus’s name Amen!”
Nikkie, may God comfort you in your struggles and eliminate your pain. God bless you. Will pray for you and these two souls you mentioned.
“Christianity is a call to a relationship with a God that you cannot control”
“What god says about me is on audio. What people say about me is on video”
One of the best sermon on suffering!!! Tim embraced mystery. Led by example!
Thank you so much for this message and these profound truths. God is so kind. I hope He comes back soon!
Tim Keller is amazing with anything he teaches on... he gets to the guts on every human condition...
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I agree. I've just started listening to him this week and it's apparent that God has gifted him with amazing intellect and communication skills.
Thank you, Dr. Keller. Lov your teaching.
Thanks for breaking the code with such logical clarity
Every message from Tim Keller is amazing. He exposes God's revealed truth unlike anyone else. He just showed me how much I believe Satan's lies and how important it is for me to not put my hope in earthly things
Message me on watsapp for prayer request,seed sowing and deliverance. +1 (609) 536-3187
Crying. Thank you.
thank you for this message, realization hits me and somehow i feel comforted and loved
So helpful! Incredible insights on Job from this man of God. Thank you so much Lord for Timothy Keller!!
Tim if you suffered like job I will listen. I gone through exruiting suffering for every hour for almost 20 years. People who have never suffered should never be allowed to speak on suffering.
Amen! So greatful to speak with fellow believers on here first and foremost who also are Tim Keller students! How did you hear about and start listening to Tim Keller? And what awesome part of the country are you originally from?
Suffering is something that everyone undergoes and which reaches people of all backgrounds & lifestyles, something that universally affects people from all walks of life and in every situation. Suffering is so far reaching that such even happens in the midst of certain worldly definition of successes which are often seen as the complete and very opposite of suffering. Many of those considered to be the most successful in the world often have sufferings as well. Timothy Keller rightfully points out how the Bible speaks about how we need to avoid easy answers within particular situations why we suffer and embrace that we won't know the ultimate answers to why we suffer in particular situations. He additionally points out how many people have given the wrong answers to questions surrounding our suffering as well. Many times we see suffering as torture in our society. We are asked to accept that we must embrace not finding answers to suffering along with discovering meaning in suffering and how God has a purpose behind all suffering which we may not even be able to fathom. And although we want answers, we need to realize that direct and explicit answers to why we suffer in a given moment or situation are questions not addressed by the Bible. Any Biblical answers to suffering in current situations many people come up with are nothing more than personal interpretations or experiences. In the bigger picture on how we need to deal with suffering, Christianity speaks about how our meaning and goals in life need to be beyond just avoiding suffering. This is the most important aspect! Our culture stresses doing everything to avoid pain and suffering yet many people get dragged into more suffering. Ironically, fear and anxiety arising from a obsession to avoid any suffering leads to more suffering rather than less. Suffering is inevitable but believers serve a God who has dominion over all suffering; and makes good on His promise to use all things for the good of those who believe in Him and have been called according to His purpose!
True.
Pastor Kellor's sermon and your word proves that truth transcends all time. I needed your word today, I'm going to reread and let it sink into my heart. Thank you, and praise to Jesus you wrote that 3 years ago.
Wow, what an awesome message!
I thought Derek Thomas is specialist in Job. Now I found another in Timothy Keller
Batman???
Jkjk
I 100% agree with you
Just in time. Thank God for this.
thank you God
Wonderful preaching. God is good!
Amen!
love this thank you
Look for a book titled “Job a man tried as gold”. Excellent
There's millions who suffer each day way worse than job.
Gordon Marshall Job was put through torture, which is popularly thought of as the worst form of living. This passage was written as an example of how Christians should face adversary in the face of the Enemy when he attacks our every weak point.
Our choices will dictate not only where we spend eternity, but where we influence others in their spiritual walk of life as well. That is what is most important, living for our Creator.
Remember suffering is temporary, but where we go in the afterlife is eternal.
@@noble1064 I agree with your comment. I only say you that because I believe I've experienced suffering like job. Blessings
I've suffered like job. The church shouldn't talk on suffering unless they have suffered excruciating spiritual and physical and financial suffering. Blessings.
Beast. Job is so hard to preach on. He just destroys it.
Interested in the quote about God, telling Jesus if he fully obeys him (God) that God will crush him and send him to hell. Any insight on this is helpful, I really enjoyed the sermon, Timothy Keller, thank you
One question in all of this that's not addressed is whether God loves Job (or you and I) for who Job is and not for any glory or gratification or "self-righteousness" that Job can give/bring to God. It goes both ways, but few churches dare ask or ponder openly on this.
But we already know he loves us regardless of what we do. He gave his son to die for us. What more proof do we need. The church does address that.
Starts off saying we made suffering, gets better.
💯💯💯💯💯💯
a translation
Nice presentation of suffering. What is the word you're using at about the 8:00 mark? It sounds like "oscimetrical".
asymmetrical (I think he's pronouncing the "a" differently than I'm used to)
That could be. The dictionary shows the "a" is hard with asymmetrical. I didn't know if this was a theological term that I was unfamiliar with. Thx...
I think it's asymmetrical as well as it makes sense given the context. I had trouble understanding that as well, though!
Job's reply to God was "Naked I came into this world and naked I leave."
Jesus's reply to God was "MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAS THOUGH FORSAKEN ME"
God does not define himself through himself but rather uses the weapon of LOVE to define the meaning of his own existence.
There is no God on one side and Satan on the other , compare creation to energy only been defined by our own willingness to accept it as good or evil. Do you think an almighty God was unable to create a world without evil ?
God is God and evil is necessary so that we can repent and truly forgive. It's so weird how God allows evil to darken our life to illuminate his LIGHT.
Based on this...I DONT want to serve God..
And I don't love God for who he is...i just cant unconditionally love(while im suffering)
Too bad for the servants and the family members that got killed so that Job's loyalty could be tested. Was their life's purpose to be born to die to prove Job's love for God?
Just a random wondering.
It’s always hard to interpret life’s purposes when suffering, especially mortal suffering occurs in our lives or the lives of others. In fact we may never know life’s purpose until our company with God. We should remember that suffering is not purposeless. Job teaches us that. Amidst the suffering God uses it to, as Tim Keller explains, accomplish the total opposite and defeat the evil meant in our life. With the servants and children, the “household” as defined in those times would include the children and the servants that work in it. The New Testament also teaches us that it is possible for the “whole household to be saved” so in dying they get to enjoy eternal company with the God the Father and free from pain and suffering. A place all Christians long for. It is also important to note that, as Tim Keller explains, God is not the source of suffering. He allows it and defines it but has a purpose for it that will abound in blessings that far outweigh any harm and suffering that could be done. If we hate injustice we must look to the source of it-which is the devil’s work. Again, as Tim Keller says, if God is our center when we encounter suffering it will only propel us into our joy of God. And through that joy we will get a better understanding of him and his plan. Hope this helps.
@@josephsedarski8510 Well expressed reply.
If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate to reach out, I’m always open.
“And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:17 NKJV
Love, Truth, Good, Light, Life , Sovereign ,is God.
God’s children have been made the target in a war.
To “curse God and die” seems to me to forsake Love, Truth, Good ,Light, Life.
The response and context of the battle seems to be beyond a transactional relationship of keeping God’s commands and having the blessings of Job.
The appropriate context and response to the wounds received on the battle field may to be ;
“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.””
Revelation 12:11-12 NKJV
When involved on the battlefield in a war is it common to ask “why did I get wounded” ?
“Though he slay me, I will hope in him; yet I will argue my ways to his face.”
Job 13:15 ESV
Doesn’t easily support a transactional relationship?
Consider "The Hero's Journey" and think: The seminaries and pastors are missing it by a mile! By a galaxy?
Fighting Leviathan, With a Puny Wooden Sword!
Fighting Leviathan, With a Puny Wooden Sword!
By Robert Winkler Burke
Book #8 of In That Day Teachings
Copyright 5/25/11 www.inthatdayteachings.com
Notes from Nelson’s Quick Reference Bible Dictionary:
“The book of Job is not only one of the most remarkable in the Bible, but in literature. As was said of Goliath’s sword, ‘There is none like it,’ none in ancient or in modern literature.” - Kitto. “A book which will one day, perhaps, be seen towering up alone far above all the poetry of the world.” - J. A. Froude. Nelson’s comments say that the true identity of who wrote Job has remained throughout time: a mystery.
“Do not break the person, break his desire to attack you. Provide the illusion that your opponent still has control, but make sure he does not.” - Mikhail Ryabko, Russian Martial Art Systema Master
I must not hurt huge Leviathan,
As it swoops down on me!
Dragon’s flame kills and maims,
I’ll soon be history!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
Yet, I must not hurt Leviathan,
Its skin is tough and brittle!
His pride is ridiculous big,
And I am less than little!
We fight for hours,
Oh, we fight for days on end!
Then, when it’s over,
The beast gets up again!
My puny wooden sword damages it not,
I’m like a grasshopper against a giant!
Then it lays down, coughs up its heart,
Upon its tongue, now on me: reliant!
Leviathan now relies on me,
To treat its heart with care!
No longer enemies, but fast friends,
I approach on God’s dare!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
With my too-small wooden sword,
I walk into the danger zone, such biting teeth of dread!
To the heart, now on the tongue,
I gently touch my sword, out gush bright drops of red!
From the sword come good drops,
Of God’s ancient-wisdom self-sacrifice,
Then Beast wakes up changed,
Swallows heart and renews its old vice!
Cruelly taking advantage of my nearness,
Leviathan scorches me in full-blown rage!
I fight him off again with wooden sword,
Behold! Beast doth weaken! says my Page.
For my Page greatly knows what’s going on,
Not long ago, HE was THE bad Leviathan!
You see, we fought for years! Way too long!
His dual was an excruciating marathon!
But after a thousand drops from God’s cross,
My Page was, of Beast, set free!
Now he’s learning to be God’s Man-of-War,
Who fights evil, just like me!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
After days and months and years,
My Page and I have succeeded!
Leviathan whom we fought,
Is full humble now: defeated!
My Page has become a Swordsman,
That Leviathan: HIS own Page,
I have left off sword for pen,
That you understand this age!
So then, pride of religion and its blinding selfish-rigidness,
Is killing man!
Just as loving kindness, humility, patience and flexibility,
Kills Leviathan!
Job learned this In That Day,
Of his: long ago!
Now we must all learn the same!
You do not know?
Holy flexibility,
Is where Christ-in-You is at!
You’ll remember the fight,
When the Rigid lose all that!
You’ll remember the fight,
When, as rigid Leviathan, you with great enmity: hated your betters!
Who took your blows nobly,
And with kind, wooden, bloody swords, removed your blind fetters.
How you’ll hate that forgiving blood of Jesus,
Applied drops at a time on your stony heart!
Until you see it is not the end,
But the Christ-in-You: Page-Warrior start!
You’ll then, Rigid Ones, be on the,
Other side of the sword!
You’ll say, as Job did, I repent!
In dust and ashes, Lord!
And if you were particularly mean,
And hurtful to your dear-brave Warrior-Savior,
God will give you a willow-wimpy sword,
To fight Leviathan, inside of your neighbor!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
You might say,
Well, it serves me just about right!
Rip me up,
Leviathan! It’s time to fight!
I shall not return evil for evil,
From proud, religiously-rigid man,
He may hurt me, but me never: him,
He’ll get what I have in me: I AM!
The great I AM,
Wants to live in us all!
In That Day it’s,
A strange work: yet not small!
It’s a BIG thing,
When Leviathan pride dies!
And Christ-in-You,
Trumpets: loud victory cries!
Yet and even much so,
Your pride in all this will be choked: by your own reins,
By the smallish sword,
You’ll be given, to do the large work that remains!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
You might ask me, where did I learn all this?
That it’s a pride-fight and that Leviathan isn’t a dinosaur true!
I learned it by reading the Book of Job,
From the Warrior-Prophet, not a Page, whose name is Elihu!
This great, but young, Warrior-Prophet,
Had heard so much talk of churchy-religious pride,
Elihu wrote all of Job’s book,
Yet pride in work: egoless, he did prodigious hide!
Elihu hid his authorship,
And prophetic voice with Job!
That following Workmen,
Would put this in their brain’s globe…
Religious-Pride is Leviathan! (It’s a smallish issue with beginners!)
Leviathan is Religious-godly-Pride! (Clericalism makes biggest sinners!)
I write this, as your proud author,
Oops! That beast is hard to hide!
Where is my bent, old wooden sword?
God, I lay my heart upon my swag tongue!
Knowledge puffeth me up… in pride,
Touch me now, oh blood of God’s Son!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
But you protest,
Only Jesus! Jesus alone! He alone (ALONE!) is your Savior!
Never you’d let,
Yourself acknowledge: He can be greater in your neighbor?
Can you, then, see now,
What has been your, and all of milk Churchianity’s, problem?
Sub-taught leaders vow,
To never slay their damnable, supercilious, god-pride goblin?
Even tho you say: just reading the bible sans leaven,
And listening to, or becoming, another Milk-way, Mandarin Madman,
And with Jesus, stuck somehow (by you?) in heaven,
Works to expunge pride? Nope! It makes naught but bad-bad bad-men.
So swallow your pride, oh religious daughter or son,
Prepare to meet your shorter, younger, older, taller… Much Betters,
Where dead body is, vultures on you will pick on,
Your religious pride. So honor who removes necrotic, hubris fetters.
You know, only Christ-in-You (in one) can do it,
Almost kill a soul, non-violently, to get rid of religious pride… to move it,
Eyes to see, ears to hear… are a better shoe fit,
Pride kills. Humility heals. Hear ye, All pride-bots so ill-begot… get to it!
Oh, woe is me! Oh, woe is me!
I have but a wooden sword!
From the cross, that victory tree,
Of Christ, my humble Lord!
Isaiah 27:1-4 (MSG) - “At that time (a time in the future when conditions are ripe) God will unsheathe his sword (ITDTs?)… his merciless, mighty sword… (and) he’ll kill [Leviathan - religious pride!] that old dragon [debauched clericalism living in harmony and support of Progressive Slavery or Tribal Slavery] that lives in the sea [of minds.]”
Vs.
The sad but extremely typical early Twenty-First Century Milk Church Leadership meme: “You have everything to learn from us; we have nothing to learn from you!”