So I'll preface this by saying that I am a bigger fan of santarelli than I am of limardo, so this is perhaps why I feel like defending santarelli more. Part 1. Disrespect can be both passive and active. Limardo throwing off his mask was obviously out of excitement, and it must have been an amazing feeling to know he would win after the comeback. At the same time, the match wasn't finished and if I am correct it goes against the rules to throw your mask off. Of course that doesn't stop anyone from doing it, but rules be rules, and it was disrespectful as a result. Part 2: I think Limardo began to tease Santarelli and that's my main issue here. He was not a good sportsman, doing a mocking en guard position etc
@@sportsmen4569 @Paddy C I totally get where you both are coming from. For the mocking thing there comes a point where someone acts so ridiculous that personally I find enjoyment in reflecting that to further highlight it. I personally know someone who acted a fool on the piste regularly with his complaints every point so I may be biased to Limardo's response since that is how I dealt with said person. I find Santarelli was being a poor sport (with the lens of the mask was due to excitement) hence being amused at the comical response by Limardo. Not doing so is the better option and I respect it. Cheers to you gentlemen! I am glad that people like you exist :)
Technically it is correct but after every touch you can put off your mask without problems because in that way you're not interrupting the match and besides is a common way to celebrate your touches Limardo is a show x'd.
Technically, Santarelli’s appeal was valid, but there was no way the ref was going to have the guts to make that call. Typical épée bout where the fencers know the rules better than the ref. Limardo is a great fencer, but he can sometimes be less than magnanimous in victory. Weird ending to a terrific bout.
You should both see how Santarelli reacted after defeating Bas Verwijlen in the t08 of the 2019 Budapest GP. He has no right to tell anyone about "disrupting the peace". He was just clinging onto anything in vain. If you compete at the highest international level, treat others how you want to be treated, and accept the result like a man.
@@aristhomas3983 False equivalence. In 2019 the bout was over as it had been tied and was in sudden death overtime. In 2022, there was still time on the clock. Big difference.
@@damianip must beg to differ. Although this one between Limardo and Santarelli was not officially over, there is no way Santarelli could have won. Limardo's fate was sealed on scoring that 13th hit.
@@aristhomas3983 This is not the point. The point is that Santarelli asserted that Limardo began his celebration and dropped his mask between touches. A strict interpretation of the rules would put him in black card territory. It wasn’t going to happen because the ref wasn’t going to have the guts to call it. Another ref might. It was a point of rules, not the score. I’m absolutely sure that Santarelli knew that merely annulling the final touch would have gotten him back to a chance. He was looking for a "fencer excluded" situation.
some ppl are loud when they win and some ppl dont...tht doesnt make loud ppl assholes for celebrating tht much, the mask is a thing MOST fencers do, they drop it and celebrate cause in 0.12 seconds left is imposible to do ANYTHING. Santarelli played it dirty like a sore loser and thts tht
Limardo was absolutely in the right. Look, fencers celebrate all the time by throwing off their mask when they have won, and Limardo had won. With 1.95 seconds left at 12-11 ahead, it is still possible for a fencer to get a single on you, which is why he did not celebrate at that point. But when there is only 0.12 seconds, and you are 2 ahead, not even Usain Bolt could run that fast to the end of the piste to even get one point in that interval let alone 2. At 13-11 ahead with only 0.12 seconds, Limardo knew that he was guaranteed to win, so he had every right to celebrate. Santarelli just did not like to lose and felt that Limardo was rubbing his face in it. But that is not true, as Limardo is always gracious in victory and defeat. Limardo was in the right in my opinion.
So he didn't want to fence, he wanted limardo-gascon to get a black card for throwing mask in celebration (which happens quite a lot) and limardo-gascon just decided to be an asshole. Why should we respect either way to act? I get where you're coming from but I gotta disagree, they were both equally in the wrong.
it doesn't happen often that a fencer gets a black card for throwing his mask after winning a tight bout at this stage of this competition. Santarelli played it quite dirty by trying to win like that, it is understandable that Limardo Gascon reacts like that as Santarelli is acting like a dick
@@pierred3646 They are both acting like dicks. When I said "happens quite a lot" I was referring to the throwing of mask. I don't think it was worth giving black card. It's still allowed to make an appeal of that and the ridicule of it wasn't needed and was not understandable imo. He was also really rubbing it in with his prolonged celebration. So my opinion is not changing. I still think they are both equally in the wrong.
I agree Ok throw a mask celebrate your victory as much as you want but always celebrate on Your part of the piste and with respect towards opponent on the other hand not shaking is unaceptable in our sport
In this case excessive celebration definetly rose to the level of taunting and disrespect. There is no other reasonable description of Limardo's antics. Growing demonstrations of these actions is now evident even in adolescent fencing. It has damaged the sport and puts it on the path to cage fighting. Don't bother to criticize this comment as antiquarian dribble. I don't intend to respond.
![The Match That Changed Fencing Forever [Epee]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qy-1m5jxYCI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Match That Changed Fencing Forever [Epee]](/img/tr.png)
Limardo on the basic fencing stance is the best thing I've ever seen from him 😂
I kinda love Limardo's response to Santarelli's attempt to use the rules to save himself. The mask coming off was due to excitement not disrespect.
So I'll preface this by saying that I am a bigger fan of santarelli than I am of limardo, so this is perhaps why I feel like defending santarelli more.
Part 1. Disrespect can be both passive and active. Limardo throwing off his mask was obviously out of excitement, and it must have been an amazing feeling to know he would win after the comeback. At the same time, the match wasn't finished and if I am correct it goes against the rules to throw your mask off. Of course that doesn't stop anyone from doing it, but rules be rules, and it was disrespectful as a result.
Part 2: I think Limardo began to tease Santarelli and that's my main issue here. He was not a good sportsman, doing a mocking en guard position etc
I don't. I prefer staying respectfull, no matter what the opponent is trying.
@@sportsmen4569 @Paddy C I totally get where you both are coming from. For the mocking thing there comes a point where someone acts so ridiculous that personally I find enjoyment in reflecting that to further highlight it. I personally know someone who acted a fool on the piste regularly with his complaints every point so I may be biased to Limardo's response since that is how I dealt with said person. I find Santarelli was being a poor sport (with the lens of the mask was due to excitement) hence being amused at the comical response by Limardo. Not doing so is the better option and I respect it. Cheers to you gentlemen! I am glad that people like you exist :)
@@paddyc5168 I replied below but my attempt to tag you did not work haha!
Technically it is correct but after every touch you can put off your mask without problems because in that way you're not interrupting the match and besides is a common way to celebrate your touches
Limardo is a show x'd.
You know for sure who was the best at the end
i love the attempt for a handshake :(
Technically, Santarelli’s appeal was valid, but there was no way the ref was going to have the guts to make that call. Typical épée bout where the fencers know the rules better than the ref. Limardo is a great fencer, but he can sometimes be less than magnanimous in victory. Weird ending to a terrific bout.
Technically correct but definitely not black card worthy!
You should both see how Santarelli reacted after defeating Bas Verwijlen in the t08 of the 2019 Budapest GP. He has no right to tell anyone about "disrupting the peace". He was just clinging onto anything in vain. If you compete at the highest international level, treat others how you want to be treated, and accept the result like a man.
@@aristhomas3983 False equivalence. In 2019 the bout was over as it had been tied and was in sudden death overtime. In 2022, there was still time on the clock. Big difference.
@@damianip must beg to differ. Although this one between Limardo and Santarelli was not officially over, there is no way Santarelli could have won. Limardo's fate was sealed on scoring that 13th hit.
@@aristhomas3983 This is not the point. The point is that Santarelli asserted that Limardo began his celebration and dropped his mask between touches. A strict interpretation of the rules would put him in black card territory. It wasn’t going to happen because the ref wasn’t going to have the guts to call it. Another ref might. It was a point of rules, not the score. I’m absolutely sure that Santarelli knew that merely annulling the final touch would have gotten him back to a chance. He was looking for a "fencer excluded" situation.
They both don't know how to win or lose, you just gotta watch their other fencing bouts
Santarelli is a a very good fencer, but he cannot accept defeat with dignity ....
Drama
If you get beat, you get beat, just suck.it up and let the winner enjoy his victory.
Yeah he can go crazy and no problem but on his side of the piste mocking the opponents half is as disrespectful as not shaking hands
Sam, tu indiques qu'il reste moins d'une seconde au début du vidéo, mais c'est moins de 2 (1.91) ;)
If someone was to catch my mistake, I'm glad it was you!
@@GPFencing 😂
This was very based
This would be a cool bout for you to analyze overall in a video imo
Have no fear ! This one is in the world with The fencing coach joining me !
@@GPFencing awesome! Loving the recent content!
i think that it wasn't limardo's fault at all
some ppl are loud when they win and some ppl dont...tht doesnt make loud ppl assholes for celebrating tht much, the mask is a thing MOST fencers do, they drop it and celebrate cause in 0.12 seconds left is imposible to do ANYTHING. Santarelli played it dirty like a sore loser and thts tht
I find dirtier this keyboard warrior like comment
skill diff LMAO
Limardo was absolutely in the right. Look, fencers celebrate all the time by throwing off their mask when they have won, and Limardo had won. With 1.95 seconds left at 12-11 ahead, it is still possible for a fencer to get a single on you, which is why he did not celebrate at that point. But when there is only 0.12 seconds, and you are 2 ahead, not even Usain Bolt could run that fast to the end of the piste to even get one point in that interval let alone 2. At 13-11 ahead with only 0.12 seconds, Limardo knew that he was guaranteed to win, so he had every right to celebrate. Santarelli just did not like to lose and felt that Limardo was rubbing his face in it. But that is not true, as Limardo is always gracious in victory and defeat. Limardo was in the right in my opinion.
ooof, these egos and attitudes ... not pretty to witness
So he didn't want to fence, he wanted limardo-gascon to get a black card for throwing mask in celebration (which happens quite a lot) and limardo-gascon just decided to be an asshole. Why should we respect either way to act? I get where you're coming from but I gotta disagree, they were both equally in the wrong.
it doesn't happen often that a fencer gets a black card for throwing his mask after winning a tight bout at this stage of this competition. Santarelli played it quite dirty by trying to win like that, it is understandable that Limardo Gascon reacts like that as Santarelli is acting like a dick
@@pierred3646 They are both acting like dicks. When I said "happens quite a lot" I was referring to the throwing of mask. I don't think it was worth giving black card. It's still allowed to make an appeal of that and the ridicule of it wasn't needed and was not understandable imo. He was also really rubbing it in with his prolonged celebration. So my opinion is not changing. I still think they are both equally in the wrong.
I agree Ok throw a mask celebrate your victory as much as you want but always celebrate on Your part of the piste and with respect towards opponent on the other hand not shaking is unaceptable in our sport
@@Archerman-bd1nr Yes I agree, I think Santarelli tapped limardos blade but he should have just shaked his hand
In this case excessive celebration definetly rose to the level of taunting and disrespect. There is no other reasonable description of Limardo's antics. Growing demonstrations of these actions is now evident even in adolescent fencing. It has damaged the sport and puts it on the path to cage fighting. Don't bother to criticize this comment as antiquarian dribble. I don't intend to respond.