Wow great discussion very interesting. I designed and built a coaxial helicopter powered by a Johnson 60hp two cylinder 2 stroke outboard. The power head weighs 38kg which isn't bad at all, I've had the machine hovering but it will only hover for 1m 30s before getting too hot. I've got an electric water pump and fan with single core radiator. The radiator is bigger than the ones used for a 582 rotax but as mentioned there are obviously design differences in how the two engines are cooled. I'm going to increase the pump flow rate and increase the radiator size plus have a belt driven fan. All this is going to increase the weight of course but I don't think I have another choice apart from adding cooling fins to the cylinder head covers. The Bensen B9 helicopter built in the 1950s used a mercury 70hp inline 4 and could hover without overheating. Rotorway as mentioned used outboards to begin with. I thought I was original in using and outboard to power a helicopter but found out after it had been done lots of times in the past. Thanks for the video regards Ben
@tomcoryell no it doesn't work that way. A radiator might help but these engines require tons of cold water and they get that from the body of water that they're on. They are not designed to dissipate heat like an aircraft engine or an automobile engine
The 150 Merc was the 2.5L engine, and they built it all the way up to 240hp. My 240 Merc "SportJet" would run 6100 rpm all day long. Big 2 strokes didn't care on RPM. AND..... it was 24 gl/hr full throttle. Yes, it was iron sleeves, but it would be a light engine for the power. The down side is.... a 400 hr engine is getting tired.
As a native North Carolinian, this guy is definitely eastern NC out by the coast. There's just a smidge of tidewahdduh Vuhginiuh kinda like a New Awllinns accent.
You WIN the internet with this comment today! Haha! I'm sitting here verbalizing your text OUT LOUD trying to replicate what you wrote here. My dialect sounds more like FOREST reading it though. 😂
Like the thinking , something we have to do ,but generally find if it works its out there . The bullet proof snow mobiles ,that have all the parts and add ons ,aka Mr Henry , does look a good path . an out board motor conversion would be good for catching them flying fish ,combine fishing and sports aviation ,be a winner .. A rotary now your talking, Rob Dham is doing a turbo two rotor 13B putting out 700 HPs, dry sump, two plugs compact ,just need a lot of radiator ,and even with a turbo the sound could kill people ...
In my experience boat motors are the most troublesome, unreliable power sources I've been around. They run great until they leave you reaching for a paddle. They are very problematic if not run for months. If you take flight with one, I will not be riding along.
Yes, I have been thinking about cross-dressing motors to craft.... like the 1000cc Honda flat engine from old Goldwings but it;s like a slab. I wanted to use one in a boat for it's low profile & great power but it would make the below deck area much lower than you'd need to set a V8 in. I've often wondered why a Cycle engine can't go into an aircraft but I think it would not be able to be insured? Perhaps you can use them in the Experimental Class & I saw a guy w/ a Corvette 350 in a Velosity(canard) and it flies & sounds great so I really do not know why you can't do it? peace
I did not know the transmission & all is within this iconic motor..... some last 300,000 miles & they started making the Honda Goldwing Flat 6 six cylinder in 1975 & I think that are still making them? Here's a good video about 8 of the best Japanese Motors ever built ; ruclips.net/video/rY_stNTPqJU/видео.html As for the extra weight I'm not too sure it would be a problem in a boat? It would work well in a boat but I don't know about in airplane? Thanks for letting me know this, I did not know until you said so. peace
Me thinking: Why not use the Rotax snowmachine engine (600 EFI/85hp og 600 E-tec/126hp an 32 kilos both) with the CVT gearing as a gearbox? Rotax CVT gearing runs from 0,75:1 to 3:1 Snow machine two strokes idle at 1500 an tops out at 8000. With a high angle prop setting one would get lots of torque for a big propeller in take off and low rpm in cruise. The belt runs "cool" in the air. Just a thought that keeps revisiting my brain...
Aeromomentum uses Suzuki marine engines, and Viking Aircraft engines are Honda auto engines which is the same engine that Honda has used in their outboards for decades. The Honda Fit is the same engine as the 75-90 hp outboard. The Suzuki engine is 40lbs less than the Honda.
I know of 3 home built light sport aircraft/microlights in New Zealand and Australia that have 2 stroke outboard engines.....2 of them yamaha 90hp's and one that has a mercury 150hp
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel The merc powered one in New Zealand had the outboard engine removed after it was sold because the new owner didn't want a 'not specifically designed for aircraft engine' in his kitfox, after this it could no longer do VNE going up hill.....dunno about the 2 yamaha powered ones, they were owned by 2 brothers who were stock mustering in Western Australia about 2006 to 2008 when i saw and spoke to them....they were a neat setup, used a homemade pressure lubricated morse chain (like a timing chain) in their reduction drive with a sprag clutch that allowed the engine to declutch from the prop when descending and the throttle was closed, the engine was mounted layed over on its side with the reduction drive at the firewall end and the propshaft went overtop the engine out to the front.....the carbs were standard keihin flatslide 32mm (same as on the bike i had at the time lol) that had bowl vent hoses adapted to allow the float bowls to see a controlled level of vacuum from in the venturi on the carb, this allowed them to individually control/balance their mixtures/EGT's with a needle valve on a tee line to atmosphere for each cylinder and when the throttle was closed and vacuum from the venturi was lost it went back to the standard jetted mixture with no input from the pilot needed....very handy when your altitude density can change 5000ft between dawn and mid day.....they also had complete individual ignition systems for each cylinder so even being single plug they would only lose 1/3 power if they lost an ignition
When I hear someone wanting to put an Harley engine in a plain the only thing that worries me is the fact that they like to break down on you! Nope I'm not going to try that! Sounds like an idea that will lead to a disaster.
Wow great discussion very interesting. I designed and built a coaxial helicopter powered by a Johnson 60hp two cylinder 2 stroke outboard.
The power head weighs 38kg which isn't bad at all, I've had the machine hovering but it will only hover for 1m 30s before getting too hot. I've got an electric water pump and fan with single core radiator.
The radiator is bigger than the ones used for a 582 rotax but as mentioned there are obviously design differences in how the two engines are cooled. I'm going to increase the pump flow rate and increase the radiator size plus have a belt driven fan.
All this is going to increase the weight of course but I don't think I have another choice apart from adding cooling fins to the cylinder head covers.
The Bensen B9 helicopter built in the 1950s used a mercury 70hp inline 4 and could hover without overheating. Rotorway as mentioned used outboards to begin with.
I thought I was original in using and outboard to power a helicopter but found out after it had been done lots of times in the past.
Thanks for the video regards Ben
How about a discussion on motorcycle engines?
Great idea!
It's been tried before it just doesn't work because boat motors has a endless supply of cool water
Modern bike motors have the same can-bus computer problems as autos....
@@christophergagliano2051 Like a radiator?
@tomcoryell no it doesn't work that way. A radiator might help but these engines require tons of cold water and they get that from the body of water that they're on. They are not designed to dissipate heat like an aircraft engine or an automobile engine
Rotorway Helicopters were the first to use outboard motors in aviation.
Volkswagen buses get converted to Subaru power and usually use horizontal belly radiators, so horizontal rads with ducting are proven to work.
Субару ненадежный и тяжелый
The Rotax 582 on my ultralight is basically a boat engine. 65 HP, 2 cylinder 2 stroke, also used in jet skis.
B J Schramm used out boards in early Rotorway Javelin & Scorpion helicopters.
My pops put an Elco boat motor in a racecar
The 150 Merc was the 2.5L engine, and they built it all the way up to 240hp. My 240 Merc "SportJet" would run 6100 rpm all day long. Big 2 strokes didn't care on RPM. AND..... it was 24 gl/hr full throttle. Yes, it was iron sleeves, but it would be a light engine for the power. The down side is.... a 400 hr engine is getting tired.
The P51 Mustang was liquid cooled.
As a native North Carolinian, this guy is definitely eastern NC out by the coast. There's just a smidge of tidewahdduh Vuhginiuh kinda like a New Awllinns accent.
You WIN the internet with this comment today! Haha! I'm sitting here verbalizing your text OUT LOUD trying to replicate what you wrote here. My dialect sounds more like FOREST reading it though. 😂
I Remember the arrow engines from Sun n Fun years ago.
Hadn't thought of them for years.
Good looking engine as I recall
Wasnt there a small kit heli called the scorpion that used an outboard motor?
go with a personal watercraft engine already set to run horizontally 2or4 stroke take your pick?
One thing about boat motors is they have an unlimited amount of water to keep them cool,so they can run different timing and fuel regulation.
Like the thinking , something we have to do ,but generally find if it works its out there . The bullet proof snow mobiles ,that have all the parts and add ons ,aka Mr Henry , does look a good path . an out board motor conversion would be good for catching them flying fish ,combine fishing and sports aviation ,be a winner .. A rotary now your talking, Rob Dham is doing a turbo two rotor 13B putting out 700 HPs, dry sump, two plugs compact ,just need a lot of radiator ,and even with a turbo the sound could kill people ...
In my experience boat motors are the most troublesome, unreliable power sources I've been around. They run great until they leave you reaching for a paddle. They are very problematic if not run for months. If you take flight with one, I will not be riding along.
Its been done before. I believe they called them flying boats.
Yes, I have been thinking about cross-dressing motors to craft.... like the 1000cc Honda flat engine from old Goldwings but it;s
like a slab. I wanted to use one in a boat for it's low profile & great power but it would make the below deck area much lower
than you'd need to set a V8 in. I've often wondered why a Cycle engine can't go into an aircraft but I think it would not be able
to be insured? Perhaps you can use them in the Experimental Class & I saw a guy w/ a Corvette 350 in a Velosity(canard) and
it flies & sounds great so I really do not know why you can't do it? peace
У Хонда голд Винг КПП от двигателя неразделимы одно целое а это лишняя масса .
I did not know the transmission & all is within this iconic motor..... some last 300,000 miles & they started making the
Honda Goldwing Flat 6 six cylinder in 1975 & I think that are still making them? Here's a good video about 8 of the
best Japanese Motors ever built ; ruclips.net/video/rY_stNTPqJU/видео.html As for the extra weight I'm
not too sure it would be a problem in a boat? It would work well in a boat but I don't know about in airplane?
Thanks for letting me know this, I did not know until you said so. peace
VW rabbit radiators are like 2x3+.... should be decent size for a small engine
I had a homebuilt with a 60hp mercury outboard.
It's the perfect match, especially the direct injection marine engines. Amazing economy and power.
Something I wanted to see done back in the 1980's,.
Low mass and good output
Me thinking: Why not use the Rotax snowmachine engine (600 EFI/85hp og 600 E-tec/126hp an 32 kilos both) with the CVT gearing as a gearbox? Rotax CVT gearing runs from 0,75:1 to 3:1 Snow machine two strokes idle at 1500 an tops out at 8000. With a high angle prop setting one would get lots of torque for a big propeller in take off and low rpm in cruise. The belt runs "cool" in the air. Just a thought that keeps revisiting my brain...
AT one time I heard about the Weber MPE 750 turbo engine (snowmobile), but what happened to that conversion I don't know.
kiwi guy newcome used a konig out board motor early moto gp he kicked arse
Aeromomentum uses Suzuki marine engines, and Viking Aircraft engines are Honda auto engines which is the same engine that Honda has used in their outboards for decades. The Honda Fit is the same engine as the 75-90 hp outboard. The Suzuki engine is 40lbs less than the Honda.
Aeromomentum are not marine engines, neither are viking!
@@chippyjohn1aeromomentum engine is based off of the Suzuki outboard.
@tdbassman1 No it isn't. What makes you think that?
I know of 3 home built light sport aircraft/microlights in New Zealand and Australia that have 2 stroke outboard engines.....2 of them yamaha 90hp's and one that has a mercury 150hp
Can you send them my way?? Are they still flying today?
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel The merc powered one in New Zealand had the outboard engine removed after it was sold because the new owner didn't want a 'not specifically designed for aircraft engine' in his kitfox, after this it could no longer do VNE going up hill.....dunno about the 2 yamaha powered ones, they were owned by 2 brothers who were stock mustering in Western Australia about 2006 to 2008 when i saw and spoke to them....they were a neat setup, used a homemade pressure lubricated morse chain (like a timing chain) in their reduction drive with a sprag clutch that allowed the engine to declutch from the prop when descending and the throttle was closed, the engine was mounted layed over on its side with the reduction drive at the firewall end and the propshaft went overtop the engine out to the front.....the carbs were standard keihin flatslide 32mm (same as on the bike i had at the time lol) that had bowl vent hoses adapted to allow the float bowls to see a controlled level of vacuum from in the venturi on the carb, this allowed them to individually control/balance their mixtures/EGT's with a needle valve on a tee line to atmosphere for each cylinder and when the throttle was closed and vacuum from the venturi was lost it went back to the standard jetted mixture with no input from the pilot needed....very handy when your altitude density can change 5000ft between dawn and mid day.....they also had complete individual ignition systems for each cylinder so even being single plug they would only lose 1/3 power if they lost an ignition
I was thinking of this not to long ago..a mercury v8 verado in a vans RV10 its 300 horse!
When I hear someone wanting to put an Harley engine in a plain the only thing that worries me is the fact that they like to break down on you!
Nope I'm not going to try that! Sounds like an idea that will lead to a disaster.
Got a radiator?
And it needs an electric water pump as well since the stock one is on the lower unit.
Love to throw a BMW or Harley oil/aircooled in an UL or an X/Amature built....