I'm good at knowing monster lore, so I got to roll two dice and fail twice as hard. After all, everyone knows that direbears are very friendly and love it when you steal their honey.
I had a character who did something kinda like this. The way I stated it in his backstory to make weird failures like that make sense is that it was all book learning, and he'd only recently gotten out to actually see the world. And in doing so, he found out that his books weren't always right.
@@commentsectionuser577 Yeah I feel like WOTC is becoming to TTRPGs what Games Workshop is to tabletop wargaming, and that's definitely not a good thing.
The proficiency doce thing reminds me of the pathfinder mobile game that I liked to play for a few years, nothing like rolling 5 dice to hit a monster as a barbarian. Very satisfying.
@@aeoluskingofthewinds276 Yeah every time I make a pathfinder character they feel different, every time I make a 5e they play pretty similair. I've done entire pathfinder campaigns without combat and it was fun. Couldn't imagine that in 5e
For negative traits, instead of giving disadvantage or subtracting proficiency (which would make you get worse at higher levels), you could use a concept I came up with that I call "deficiency". The idea was that in addition to choosing skills that you were good at, you'd also choose skills that you were bad at. As for how it works mechanically, it's pretty simple: you actually do add your proficiency bonus to the roll, but you also have a -8 penalty. This makes "deficiency penalty" a perfect mirror to proficiency, going from -6 at 1st level to -2 at 17+. It has the same penalty range as subtracting your proficiency bonus, but the scaling is backwards so that the penalty becomes less severe at higher levels instead of more severe.
This is genius! Absolutely keeping this in my back pocket, this is an amazing mechanical suggestion. Genuinely thank you for sharing, I'd never have thought of something this cool
I think the most appealing aspect of proficiency dice is the ability to revamp certain abilities around it. For example: Replacing the flat Rage damage bonus with a Rage Damage *Die,* allowing it to be added to more things like initiative or intimidate checks. Not to mention, it’ll make brutal critical and even better feature.
Except that brutal critical, when going full barb, already gives up to 3 extra dice. And critical hits double ALL DICE ROLLED. You have a great sword, which is 2d6 and it deals 2d6 cold damage as a frostbrand? That's 8d6 damage on crit. If you add rage dice, and that die goes up by, say, 1 die value per time that rage increases, then that means you get a 1d4, 1d6, extra extra die. That's not just a brutal critical, that's a fatal attack. That would make barbs the literal best class in the game. Besides, brutal critical is as follows: Beginning at 9th level, you can roll one additional weapon damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee attack. This increases to two additional dice at 13th level and three additional dice at 17th level. WEAPON DIE. Rage is not a weapon, it's a feature.
One proficiency mechanic I loved (and IDK how easy this would be to port over to D&D) is from 1e Hc Svnt Dracones. You have IIRC 4 main skill groups (IIRC grouped by stat) and assign one of 4 different dice to it. So the stuff you're strongest in, you're rolling the mighty D12, but for your weak skills, you're down to a D6. And since it's a dice pool system (a-la World of Darkness) that D6 has only 1 passing result, but those D12s are a 50/50! Very interesting to denote what you're supposed to be good and bad at IMO
I'm glad the 2nd edition made money-focused characters more powerful...and expanded a bit on lore, amped their horror section of creatures instead of kinda hand-waving it... Honestly, what power gamer WOULDN'T want an LMG while having a BACK-MOUNTED Homing RPG?
if I'm not mistaken kids on bikes is also like that. you have 5 different stats, and each of them you roll with a different die. something that I think is fun is if you roll the highest number on the dice die it explodes and you can roll another one and add to the result. so smaller dice are more likely to explode, but roll lower, and bigger dice are less likely to explode but roll higher.
Hey zee if you haven't heard of it through the breach is a nice breath of fresh air at my rpg table. It uses a deck of cards instead of dice meaning that a lot of tension can build in a session if players get a lot of low or high flips. Cause even subconsciously youll realize that if you've been having low flips that just means they're gone from the deck and the highs are in the deck somewhere. You cant be unlucky all night. Anyway its a ton of fun and id recommend you give it a look through if your interested in mythical dystopian cthulu horror westerns
Second this. It's the main rpg me and my friends play. It provides so much player choice and creativity. Classes are pursuits which have branching paths that can differ widely from each other, and it has huge lists of things called "general talents" which are like more advanced and well developed feats. It also has a badass setting.
@@MrDrewwills its very unique take on character creation will hands down be some of the best ideas to put to paper ever. The pursuits are varied and useful in ways that ive not seen in other games. I mean name me a game whose core rule book has classes like nerd, supervisor, and gambler, sitting next to necromancer sorcerer and bounty hunter. All of whom are equally powerful in their own right
@@MrDrewwills destiny steps and getting to choose between an attribute increase and a manifested power was a super interesting choice as well. On one hand increase an attribute and you will have an high impact on a lot of skills and since the cards range from 1-13 an increase of one is a lot bigger deal than it is to a d20. On the other hand a manifest power is a taylor made ability just for your character with the gm and yourself making it just how you wanted. Btw thanks for nerding out with me over it. Game needs some damn love lol
Background proficiency is basically 13th Age. Instead of skills you have backgrounds that are unique to your character. If you're playing Batman, you might have a background in World's Greatest Detective, and so if you're looking for a hidden door you can say to your DM "well given I'm the World's Greatest Detective, can I add that to my roll to find this door?", but you can also do that to, say, interrogate an NPC. It's a really neat system and makes it feel like your character's story is important.
This. But also, you get 3 backgrounds in 13th age and you decide what they are, then you can try to argue for them to be applicable when a skill check comes up. Often the DM might ask you to relay a story from your past that explains why it's applicable. This both stops players abusing it, and also fleshes out PCs stories during gameplay, which is very useful for character development.
I use the proficiency dice in one of the games I run. My players really like it. I do want to point out when using proficiency dice you do still have to refer to the normal table for some abilities that say things like "do this x number of a times a day = to half your proficiency bonus". Also, i just run npc/monsters as is, no rolling extra dice for them.
It might also be possible to adapt them into a usage dice system. Keep a separate die for each ability like that, and every time you use the ability, roll that die. If it rolls below a certain number (let’s say 2) the die goes down one size for that ability. If that happens on a d4, the ability runs out. When you take an appropriate rest, the dice all reset to their starting size. The dice all, ofc, start at the size of your proficiency die.
A way to make tracking this relatively easy is to notice that your proficiency _die_ has a number of sides equal to twice your proficiency _bonus_ - so track the bonus (using it to calculate anything that runs off PB), think of doubling it to get the size of die whenever it comes into a roll, and it all works out just fine. Indeed, it almost looks like PBs were _calculated_ by just taking the averages of PD rolls with the usual D&D rounding-down convention. You'd think this would break down for CR>20 monsters with a PB above 6, but the variant rule says it's intended only for PCs and NPCs that have levels, so presumably for monsters we're just meant to use the flat bonus - which, again, encourages us to have the bonus be the thing we track.
I like how self aware you were at the end of the video. Doing all this wacky changes in 5e so it feels fresh instead of just playing some other systems.
My favourite variant is backporting a PF2e feature to 5e; Normal proficiency bonus works as normal, but then there is also Expert, Master and Legendary. Each step adds +2. The levels where everyone gets to progress some of their skills, and Rogue getting it far more, needs some tweaking, but it actually slots into 5e really well. You could also replace +x items with this model of progression by applying it to weapons or armour I guess.
If you want to mix that with Proficiency dice the Furry RPG (yes I know) called Iron Claw uses proficiency dice with training. Beginner training is 1d4, expert is 1d6, and so on. Your weapon damage is also the proficiency dice! So if the wizard picks up a longsword they don't somehow do the same damage as the warrior wielding it.
I'll have to watch this a couple times cuz I don't quite understand how or why what you are proposing, but the animation and humor always makes me smile. So thank you Zee! Please keep it coming!
Amazing work as always. Your content never fail to lighten up my day. I second trying out more systems. I think it'd be fun to see your ramblings on the basics of learning a new system or your thoughts on what a system does well and poorly.
honestly videos like this one, just ruminating on mechanics from different games, that work thematically or are just fun would be awesome, i generally would love to see more of the ttrpg youtube space embracing other games aswell and perheps helping grow the resources available for them beyond the games' super specific niches. id say another good thing to look at is how Star Wars RPG/Genesys does Destiny Points, which work like more interesting inspiration, super interesting to read and super easy to add to 5e
I recall hearing somewhere that the variant one was the intended system, but it was removed as it was felt it added too much RNG, whereas flat bonuses were at least reliable. That's why the bonuses go from 2 to 6, for d4 through d12. The flat modifier chosen was the average rounded down.
What a cool concept. The bit of randomness makes it much more realistic and fun. Thanks for all the great videos Zee, your hard work is much appreciated!
Fun, maybe, if pure randomness is what you're into. Realistic? I disagree, the d20 is already taking the role of the chance factor, the proficiency bonus is supposed to be there to offer a safety cushion that makes sure that if your character is sufficiently trained in a certain skill, they can't completely fail. With this system, you can roll miserably at something your supposed to be the best at.
@@Vares65 And that's what the d20 is simulating, even with a +6 proficiency bonus, you can still roll a 2 and end up failing at something you're supposed to be excellent. But with the dice system, you're as likely to break every olympic record as to break your leg trying to jump. That's a bit too jarring for me.
If it hasn't been mentioned already, Shadow of the Demon Lord does something similar to proficiency dice and background/narrative proficiency in its boons & banes system (Roll a number of d6s equal to your total boons or banes, canceling out as normal, pick the highest number among those rolled and apply it as either a bonus or penalty to the roll), and the GM is encouraged to give boons (or outright successes/rolls in otherwise outright failures) depending on a character's professions
The excellent system behind the game Godbound uses a mechanic very similar to #3 as shown here: You're good at the things implied by your Facts. The difference being that Godbound uses Facts as a universal collection that covers everything from backgrounds to skills to some things that (for lesser mortal heroes) resemble feats or subclasses, and you get more of them as you level. This makes Facts a lot more flexible and properly shows growth and training when compared to 5e's very minimalist and narrow static backgrounds.
I am glad you did this video! It was only last week I tried to convince the group Which is about to start tomorrow that proficiency dice would be an interesting twist! Going to love dropping this video in Discord chat!
Profdice is amazing. Since the dice size is double the flat bonus, it can be so fun to see characters sneak out wins that would have been impossible with flat bonuses.
That indeed sounds amazing! The only thing I'm worried about is that with that method, you have 3 sources of numbers to add together (d20 + ability modifier + prof. die). How did that turn out for you? Was it easy?
@@gnomenschuh7606 Well, to be for, you already do use 3 sources for the number, the d20, the ability mod, and the proficiency mod. so the dice rolls themselves are not significantly more complicated. in fact many online rollers like roll20 already have built in prof.die options meaning it's almost no work at all. there are a few growing pains, but most of them just come down to the DM being consistent. for example, handling advantage/disadvantage. RAW (rules as written) advantage makes you roll two d20's and choose the higher one. This means that if you roll a 15+1 and a 13+8 RAW with advantage you would take the 15 even though the total for the 13 is higher. Now most DM's, at least most i've met, see advantage as taking the better option overall, in which case the 13 would win. In all honesty which roll wins doesn't completely matter, as long as the DM is consistent which taking either the high roll or the high result, and doesn't go back and forth between them. All in all it the most complicated thing to come out of my table using prof. die, is a small subset of my players want to start using ability mod dice. since the system proficiency puts in place is a dice twice as big as the modifier. so the standard player mod array of 0-5 can be done by stepping up 0, d2, d4, d6, d8, d10, and negative modifiers are just the same dice but in reverse, so a -2 is just -d4.
"well i guess i could just play another RPG a bit" is honestly probably the best advice here. like, even if its just another version of dnd. best way to find new mechanics to steal, or even find a game you enjoy more.
The great thing about D&D is its flexibility. You _can_ do it the way it says in the rule book, or you can do something homebrewed. Either that you came up with yourself or someone else did. And the system itself can support _so much_ homebrew.
If the idea of traits adding proficiency is exciting, I suggest looking into the Fate system. And I don’t mean that in the negative “just play something else” sort of way. Rather, it’s a neat base mechanic that really integrates mechanics into storytelling. In Fate, traits (called aspects) can be read in a positive and negative way. Perhaps you have an aspect “Quick to Anger.” The GM can use it against you in times you’re trying to remain calm, but you could use it for you in times that you’re letting your anger fuel you. The system does so by letting you spend Fate points to either gain a +2 bonus or gain a reroll if used by you, or a -2 penalty or have an action compelled if used against you. These ideas could be implemented into 5e in a similar manner. Design traits that are both positive and negative. Spend a limited resource (like inspiration) to add advantage to a roll in favor of a trait, or gain a use of said limited resource to have disadvantage on a roll related to the trait. The GM is arbiter of when these would apply.
Option #2 is basically how the (very good) ttrpg Spire does rolls/proficiency. It's a d10 system, and when you have a certain skill (say, "fight") when you do something related to that skill, you get to roll an extra d10 and pick the higher value.
1:10 Oh, so the current "flat" proficiency is basically the average (rounded down) for each proficiency die (2/d4 for levels 1-4, 3/d6 for levels 5-8 and so on). Taking the average instead of rolling a dice was already a thing for monster damage and PC HP increases, so it makes sense we can also go the other way around (rolling dice instead of using an average).
The background based on feels very City of Mist-you add a bonus to your roll based on if something about whatever action you're gonna do is relevant to who you are as a person (i.e. getting a bonus on running away or something because your character is on the track team in uni and also has powers that make them run fast).
I love this episodes ad-read, it's been a long time since I've watched television and even longer since I've seen an honest to Gygax local TV spot, so just hearing someone sell me something in that time of choice is a nice wave of nostalgia
Dungeon Crawl Classics uses the background proficiencies for the closest thing it has to skill checks, and it works pretty well. "Tell me why you should be better at this task than an average person in this world" makes it way less rules heavy and helps keep the players thinking about the world instead of just the numbers. In DCC, backgrounds are rolled randomly, so you still have left and right bounds baked into the options.
Option 3 reminds me of Blades in the Dark's mechanics. I started playing it recently, and I really appreciate the relative simplicity of the game mechanics.
If you like the idea of proficiency dice, building off your "or I could try another rpg for a bit" that's exactly what savage worlds does. Instead of a d20 system skills are rolled with varying d4 through d12 system and you generally have a "wild" d6 to go with it. Should give it a shot if you haven't already! There's a lot of fun one shots for it.
Personally, I prefer Pinnacle's previous system before Savage Worlds, even if it's a lot heavier as a system. You had 10 "Abilities" (like Strength) which gave you the die-type for the roll. You roll a number of dice equal to your skill level, and pick the single highest die. The dice are open-ended, meaning you get to keep rolling them as long as you keep getting the die's top result - so a d4 could give you "10" if you rolled 4, re-rolled another 4, and then a 2. (Damage rolls were a bit different; you added every die, not just the highest, but the open-endedness was still the same.) It's just an awesome feeling to get to roll, and re-roll, and re-roll dice, and Savage Worlds isn't really built for that. But it's quicker.
@@TheRawrnstuff Oh yeah they changed systems recently right? Yeah exploding dice were fun. I remember one campaign we consistently killed bosses with a improvised weapon by picking up a rock and just braining them. Good times.
@@LordVarreus Well, Savage Worlds was first published 2004, so I'd hardly call it _recent._ The "Classic" Deadlands system came out 1996, but I actually started with _Deadlands: Hell on Earth_ that used pretty much the same system and released 1998. That system is a huge reason why and how I got hooked on TTRPGs. If Deadlands didn't exist, not sure if I'd be GM'ing anymore. Vampire: the Masquerade might've done it, or maybe I'd have entirely different hobbies these days. I know that any iteration of the d20-system wouldn't have won me over to the same extent.
Heh that sales pitch at the end. Reminds me of those old monster truck rally adds: "Buying our products gets you a whole seat at the table BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE!"
Fun fact: proficiency dice *kinda* exist in Lancer (basically if Titanfall and DnD had a baby), instead of advantages and disadvantages there's accuracy and difficulty. You roll a d6, and pick the highest if there's multiple dice, then add or subtract to your d20 roll. While there's still standard bonuses like +2 for staying calm in a high stress situation those only effect narrative play unless the DM says otherwise.
Lancer seems extremely cool, I really like the setting info. I haven't gotten to play a game of it yet, but it's one I want to get to eventually for sure.
I've been working on a version of Caltrop Core that uses the personality/background proficiency concept. You basically have 3 "skills" that you're good at, and then you have 3 "traits" that are based on your character. So if you're a thief and you have a pickpocketing skill, you roll 1 die to try and pickpocket. If you're a thief who's also a Robin Hood "takes from the rich and gives to the poor" character, then pickpocketing from a rich person is in character, so you roll 2 dice. Highest dice roll is the only one that matters, so doing things that are in character basically gives you advantage on every roll.
This is roughly how Ironclaw handles it. Your species and career are stats that are represented by dice instead of numbers, and those dice are then added to skill checks specified by your species and career. Careers are sorta like the One DnD playtest rules for backgrounds, and species operates roughly the same way, but they each give you access to slightly different feats/options, with career options usually encompassing training and equipment and species options being more focused on biological features.
Ey! A person who knows Ironclaw. I use to run that game in college for a bunch of friends... I was accidentally their furry awakening on that, but we had a load of fun with the story.
In star wars rpg it's got it's own dice system, and dice pools are made up of different kinds of dice based on how hard the skill check is, your natural ability, and your proficiency in abilities.
OG Deadlands had a good way of handling negative personality traits - they were always optional, but you got more XP when you specifically decided to disadvantage yourself with them. (This was fairly easy to do in Deadlands, as you were granted various levels of Poker Chips when you did something cool or funny or stylish - which could be cashed in at the end of a session for XP.) I've used the Poker Chip variation in D&D before - using different-colored glass beads (the kind traditionally used as markers in Magic: the Gathering), to represent Gems as opposed to Poker Chips - it worked pretty well. It does make for a more cinematic experience though, as you can use the Chip/Beads to boost skill rolls and whatnot.
I can even see what specific RPGs these variants make D&D more like. Proficiency Dice are more Savage Worlds, where your skills and abilities are themselves represented by different die types that you roll together. Personality Trait proficiency is a kind of Fate Core spin, where characters have a bunch of "Aspects" that are short phrases you can invoke positively or negatively for different advantages.
I have been using both the proficiency dice and personality advantage / disadvantage in my games for a few years before this video and they make the game way more fun IMO. My players began expressing their characters personality more and the variation in the numbers keeps things from being to predictable.
Cool stuff, I’ve done proficiency dice in the past end it always made roles feel fresher, especially after playing hours and hours of DND. Love the videos!
In an old homebrew I allowed chaos monks. AC was d20 plus dex plus wisdom. No base 10. Flurry was a growing dice type from D3 - d10 based on level. If called even if you roll a one that was the complete use of flurry as a full round action. They could never take any number on a check and had to roll for all skills. Last was a long list of changes made to the monk abilities like my favorite Chaos Embodiment. This replaced perfect body with something more twisted. You grew a random limb or mutation once per day, losing the one from before. These ranged from an extra arm that could grapple an enemy on that side of the body all the way to bone and sinew growth making a weeping willow of carnage spring from your back. It was a lot of fun and yes they all died to stupidly low rolls at the worst times.
Pathfinder 2nd edition actually has my favorite proficiency system. It's a nice blend of deep & simple. Note variant 3 & 4 was how old school D&D ( OD&D , B/X , BECMI & AD&D ) was done.
The last thing you described is sort of how Cortex works. In that system, you build up a dice pool, and two of the things that go into that are your Attribute (think your ability score, the "how" you're doing a thing) and a Value (the reason "why" you're doing it). Bigger dice are better, smaller dice are worse, so if you're doing something that you're technically good at but that goes against your code of ethics, you have more of a chance to mess up. It's a cool system, I have the _Tales of Xadia_ book, but it's more of a story game than D&D and other more crunchy games.
One that I like is proficiency points. You multiply the number of skills you get, for most it's 2 from class and 2 from background, times your proficiency bonus ,2 at first level, for a total of 8 points which you can distribute between skills available for class and background. As your proficiency increases you add skill points.
Big proficiency dice fan here. I like rolling more dice, I like that it makes it easier to detach ability scores from skills, and I like that it adds a little bell curve to the probability distribution. Honestly I feel like this is the version the 5e designers wanted to be the default. Unfortunately, my players never seemed to get the hang of it.
If you want to bel curve skills specifically (basically make a difference between non-proficient, proficient, and Expert) I like the idea of replacing the 1d20 with 2d10 (so more of a curve) with proficiency giving the die and Expert maximizing the die (so the same as the 'default' 5e Expert rule). This gives a good curve to skills (DC20 feels really difficult now at 1% chance for the untrained before ability modifiers) and while proficency and Expert have the same maximum value, the distribution between the two is very different. Unfortunately, I have not run it at a table, but I personally like the intuition around it, for the lack of a better term.
@@seanboyd2898 Yep, I also like 2d10, tried it out a few times. Again though, my players seem to prefer the base d20. If only someone would DM for me using all the rules I prefer....
you could flesh out background proficiency, have the players choose one background and then somewhere between 2-3 interests which can be other backgrounds. Characters get a proficiency bonus for any dice roll which could apply to their background and then a +1 for interests.
#3, Background Proficiencies, is basically how 13th Age does it. You have 8 points to create a sort of competency list, where you might have a +5 in something you spent a lot of time on (e.g. a Ranger's given themselves a +5 Living in the Wilderness background, a +2 in Trade and a +1 in Spelunking), or +3/+3/+2 in a more well-rounded player with a bunch of smaller things in their background, and then as long as you can convince the DM that your character's background applies, you get that proficiency bonus in your current skill check. Upsides: Feels great to be good at the thing your character's supposed to be good at, makes you think a little more about your character's backstory, classes like druids aren't completely dicked over for competencies like in D&D. Downsides: Every skill check might be time for an argument with the DM if there's any friction at the table, and even players who aren't power-players will struggle to figure out what's the 'right' level of power for them. Of course, since it's 13th Age, you also get to add your level to the skill check, because you're all big damn heroes and the numbers have to go up!
Proficiency bonus adds a certain level of consistency to games that take themselves at least somewhat seriously. Changing it into dice makes the game more swingy in a game where a d20 already has huge variance. Probably better for casual groups that don't care as much for a semblance of balance.
Two things, 1. Amazing ad roll at the end there. 2. If you're looking for a new rpg Zee, some of these proficiency variants match up perfectly with the Fate (or Fate Accelerated) systems
Great video Zee. It is funny you mention the proficiency dice chart in D&D 5e because Renegade Game Studio's Essence20 TTRPG system is pretty much built on a similar idea. Your Athletics isn't +4, you just roll a d8 and add it to a d20 roll for example. They also do some fundamental tweaks to the system to account for crazy dice swings like story points, lower DCs and abilities that let you re-roll 1s or get Edge/Snag (Advantage/Disadvantage) Right now it's being used for TTRPG adaptations of Hasbro properties. Power Rangers, GI Joe, and Transformers have all come out and My Little Pony is coming out soon. People are already asking for a setting agnostic core rulebook :D.
I’m glad see agknowledged trying another game at the end, given that proficiency dice is kind of the whole way deadlands rolls, where instead of doing d20, your proficiency level determines what die you roll
Background proficiency sounds like how it's done in 13th Age - gotta say, big fan. Moved to 13A from 5e a year or so back and that's one of the things I've really enjoyed about it.
I’m running a d&d game with the pathfinder 1e skill system grafted in at the moment and I really love it - it makes for much more nuanced non-combat rolling and there’s the chance to specialise in a way d&d just isn’t up to.
I love me some alternative rules. Infact last night I was trying to come up with a method for players to play a classless campaign where they get items that allow them to try out each classes features. As a way of revitalizing each class, showcasing each class to new players, and cause it sounded like a cool new idea.
If you want to stay within DnD Your weapon grants you 1 level in a class. If you're a wizard it's a book. Sorcerers can wear a necklace that brings out their inner potential and warlocks can make a pact with a sentient book or sword. Bards can use an instrument or microphone to get their level, Druids a wooden staff. If you want to level up past 1 you can have variants of these but I would stop at lv3 of any class available to your players. Instead, level 4 and up can turn into "lightsabers". What I mean is, every lightsaber is personal but they all are signs you're a Jedi. So, the players have to create their own up leveled gear. Example: I want to be a level 4 barbarian. I will hunt a large creature, let's say an owlbear. My party can get me here. But I will fight it solo and when I'm done I will make a helmet of bone and feathers. To hit level 5 I shall add a cape that I've made from another monster. Level 6 I will take apart a construct and have a smith guide me through making a hammer. It won't be perfect but it is mine. Now you have individual stories plus group stories and tension.
Proficiency-for-background is the 13th Age solution: it works but you'll want to make backgrounds a bit more than "last job". 13th Age recommends backgrounds are worded a bit more cleverly: two of "role, organization, location". So, "priest of the 100 Swords mercenary company", "Neverwinter guard" or "member of the Sigil Door-Makers Guild".
Кино
I'm good at knowing monster lore, so I got to roll two dice and fail twice as hard. After all, everyone knows that direbears are very friendly and love it when you steal their honey.
Known to say "Oh Bother" as you run off into the sunset with your newly pilfered jar of Hunny aloft
Ah, howlbear honey is a well-known delicacy
I had a character who did something kinda like this. The way I stated it in his backstory to make weird failures like that make sense is that it was all book learning, and he'd only recently gotten out to actually see the world. And in doing so, he found out that his books weren't always right.
And everyone knows that in waterdeep dragon heist the enemy in the sewers is a zombie beholder
Sharing is caring ~
The existential dread in that face when he said 'I could play another RPG for a bit' was too legit.
*subtly slides a pile of other rpgs next to you*
If you like proficiency dice and want to play another game just play something like a Star Wars TTRPG
Even if D&D 5E is your favorite it will help playing other systems to get a better understanding of the game as a whole.
Genuinely want to spread the idea of trying new RPGs. There's so much good out there, we don't need to let WOTC have a *total* monopoly!
@@commentsectionuser577 Yeah I feel like WOTC is becoming to TTRPGs what Games Workshop is to tabletop wargaming, and that's definitely not a good thing.
The proficiency doce thing reminds me of the pathfinder mobile game that I liked to play for a few years, nothing like rolling 5 dice to hit a monster as a barbarian. Very satisfying.
that's going to be a hard no for me chief. Anything that slows down combat rounds is super annoying cuz they're already slow enough
Random thought. If 5e is boring for you, maybe just play Pathfinder? It's just the same base game with more stuff to do and less samey characters
@@aeoluskingofthewinds276 Yeah every time I make a pathfinder character they feel different, every time I make a 5e they play pretty similair. I've done entire pathfinder campaigns without combat and it was fun. Couldn't imagine that in 5e
Barbarian rube goldberg machine
For negative traits, instead of giving disadvantage or subtracting proficiency (which would make you get worse at higher levels), you could use a concept I came up with that I call "deficiency". The idea was that in addition to choosing skills that you were good at, you'd also choose skills that you were bad at. As for how it works mechanically, it's pretty simple: you actually do add your proficiency bonus to the roll, but you also have a -8 penalty. This makes "deficiency penalty" a perfect mirror to proficiency, going from -6 at 1st level to -2 at 17+. It has the same penalty range as subtracting your proficiency bonus, but the scaling is backwards so that the penalty becomes less severe at higher levels instead of more severe.
This is genius! Absolutely keeping this in my back pocket, this is an amazing mechanical suggestion. Genuinely thank you for sharing, I'd never have thought of something this cool
Potassium deficiency
I think the most appealing aspect of proficiency dice is the ability to revamp certain abilities around it.
For example: Replacing the flat Rage damage bonus with a Rage Damage *Die,* allowing it to be added to more things like initiative or intimidate checks. Not to mention, it’ll make brutal critical and even better feature.
Another idea: a barbarian can choose to roll two (and three at later levels) rage dice on a hit while raging, but it immediately ends their rage.
Except that brutal critical, when going full barb, already gives up to 3 extra dice. And critical hits double ALL DICE ROLLED. You have a great sword, which is 2d6 and it deals 2d6 cold damage as a frostbrand? That's 8d6 damage on crit. If you add rage dice, and that die goes up by, say, 1 die value per time that rage increases, then that means you get a 1d4, 1d6, extra extra die. That's not just a brutal critical, that's a fatal attack. That would make barbs the literal best class in the game.
Besides, brutal critical is as follows: Beginning at 9th level, you can roll one additional weapon damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee attack.
This increases to two additional dice at 13th level and three additional dice at 17th level.
WEAPON DIE. Rage is not a weapon, it's a feature.
One proficiency mechanic I loved (and IDK how easy this would be to port over to D&D) is from 1e Hc Svnt Dracones. You have IIRC 4 main skill groups (IIRC grouped by stat) and assign one of 4 different dice to it. So the stuff you're strongest in, you're rolling the mighty D12, but for your weak skills, you're down to a D6. And since it's a dice pool system (a-la World of Darkness) that D6 has only 1 passing result, but those D12s are a 50/50! Very interesting to denote what you're supposed to be good and bad at IMO
And then the classic… you roll a 1 and auto fail the thing you are meant to be the master at
I'm glad the 2nd edition made money-focused characters more powerful...and expanded a bit on lore, amped their horror section of creatures instead of kinda hand-waving it...
Honestly, what power gamer WOULDN'T want an LMG while having a BACK-MOUNTED Homing RPG?
if I'm not mistaken kids on bikes is also like that. you have 5 different stats, and each of them you roll with a different die. something that I think is fun is if you roll the highest number on the dice die it explodes and you can roll another one and add to the result. so smaller dice are more likely to explode, but roll lower, and bigger dice are less likely to explode but roll higher.
That's savage worlds in a nutshell
Hey zee if you haven't heard of it through the breach is a nice breath of fresh air at my rpg table. It uses a deck of cards instead of dice meaning that a lot of tension can build in a session if players get a lot of low or high flips. Cause even subconsciously youll realize that if you've been having low flips that just means they're gone from the deck and the highs are in the deck somewhere. You cant be unlucky all night. Anyway its a ton of fun and id recommend you give it a look through if your interested in mythical dystopian cthulu horror westerns
🤔💯
Second this. It's the main rpg me and my friends play. It provides so much player choice and creativity. Classes are pursuits which have branching paths that can differ widely from each other, and it has huge lists of things called "general talents" which are like more advanced and well developed feats. It also has a badass setting.
@@MrDrewwills its very unique take on character creation will hands down be some of the best ideas to put to paper ever. The pursuits are varied and useful in ways that ive not seen in other games. I mean name me a game whose core rule book has classes like nerd, supervisor, and gambler, sitting next to necromancer sorcerer and bounty hunter. All of whom are equally powerful in their own right
@@madmanwithaplan1826 Exactly! Advanced pursuits are also such a fun idea I wish more games would try.
@@MrDrewwills destiny steps and getting to choose between an attribute increase and a manifested power was a super interesting choice as well. On one hand increase an attribute and you will have an high impact on a lot of skills and since the cards range from 1-13 an increase of one is a lot bigger deal than it is to a d20. On the other hand a manifest power is a taylor made ability just for your character with the gm and yourself making it just how you wanted. Btw thanks for nerding out with me over it. Game needs some damn love lol
“First ask your dm” a vary good place to start. Glad you included it
Background proficiency is basically 13th Age. Instead of skills you have backgrounds that are unique to your character.
If you're playing Batman, you might have a background in World's Greatest Detective, and so if you're looking for a hidden door you can say to your DM "well given I'm the World's Greatest Detective, can I add that to my roll to find this door?", but you can also do that to, say, interrogate an NPC.
It's a really neat system and makes it feel like your character's story is important.
This. But also, you get 3 backgrounds in 13th age and you decide what they are, then you can try to argue for them to be applicable when a skill check comes up.
Often the DM might ask you to relay a story from your past that explains why it's applicable. This both stops players abusing it, and also fleshes out PCs stories during gameplay, which is very useful for character development.
I use the proficiency dice in one of the games I run. My players really like it. I do want to point out when using proficiency dice you do still have to refer to the normal table for some abilities that say things like "do this x number of a times a day = to half your proficiency bonus". Also, i just run npc/monsters as is, no rolling extra dice for them.
Half proficiency bonus could be based off what you roll
@@purevessle2641 and that is godawful
@@ashtonhoward5582 exactly
It might also be possible to adapt them into a usage dice system. Keep a separate die for each ability like that, and every time you use the ability, roll that die. If it rolls below a certain number (let’s say 2) the die goes down one size for that ability. If that happens on a d4, the ability runs out. When you take an appropriate rest, the dice all reset to their starting size. The dice all, ofc, start at the size of your proficiency die.
A way to make tracking this relatively easy is to notice that your proficiency _die_ has a number of sides equal to twice your proficiency _bonus_ - so track the bonus (using it to calculate anything that runs off PB), think of doubling it to get the size of die whenever it comes into a roll, and it all works out just fine.
Indeed, it almost looks like PBs were _calculated_ by just taking the averages of PD rolls with the usual D&D rounding-down convention. You'd think this would break down for CR>20 monsters with a PB above 6, but the variant rule says it's intended only for PCs and NPCs that have levels, so presumably for monsters we're just meant to use the flat bonus - which, again, encourages us to have the bonus be the thing we track.
I like how self aware you were at the end of the video. Doing all this wacky changes in 5e so it feels fresh instead of just playing some other systems.
That realization before the ad *lol*
Love your stuff zee! Can’t wait to see more!❤
this is the beginning of his pathfinder arc
Animated Power Book for Savage Worlds when
An early morning release. Great way to start the day.
@@user-qy8kk8yx4q only in Hebrew speaking countrys....
@@bupperdupper8873 yeah, yeah, your right. i saw this communt and responded without thinking, whice is why i daleted it. thanks any way, champ.
My favourite variant is backporting a PF2e feature to 5e; Normal proficiency bonus works as normal, but then there is also Expert, Master and Legendary. Each step adds +2. The levels where everyone gets to progress some of their skills, and Rogue getting it far more, needs some tweaking, but it actually slots into 5e really well.
You could also replace +x items with this model of progression by applying it to weapons or armour I guess.
If you want to mix that with Proficiency dice the Furry RPG (yes I know) called Iron Claw uses proficiency dice with training. Beginner training is 1d4, expert is 1d6, and so on. Your weapon damage is also the proficiency dice! So if the wizard picks up a longsword they don't somehow do the same damage as the warrior wielding it.
Grim Hollow adds a "Profession Die" to certain checks based on your background (Advanced Backgrounds.) It's a neat way to keep things fresh!
I don't want even more uncertainty in doing things my character is supposedly skilled at
I'll have to watch this a couple times cuz I don't quite understand how or why what you are proposing, but the animation and humor always makes me smile. So thank you Zee! Please keep it coming!
IKR 💯
All of this stuff is in the "Ability Options" section of the DMG if you want it in writing too
"Maybe I could play a different RPG a bit" *me eyes glowing red swinging the Pathfinder core rules book like a hammer*
I can't believe how much i laughed when the cat got flip and just stood there angry
As someone just getting in to dnd I love your videos! This only makes me want to get into it more!
Amazing work as always. Your content never fail to lighten up my day.
I second trying out more systems. I think it'd be fun to see your ramblings on the basics of learning a new system or your thoughts on what a system does well and poorly.
honestly videos like this one, just ruminating on mechanics from different games, that work thematically or are just fun would be awesome, i generally would love to see more of the ttrpg youtube space embracing other games aswell and perheps helping grow the resources available for them beyond the games' super specific niches.
id say another good thing to look at is how Star Wars RPG/Genesys does Destiny Points, which work like more interesting inspiration, super interesting to read and super easy to add to 5e
These videos makes me forget the sting of not being in any current running campaigns. Thank you mister Bashew
I recall hearing somewhere that the variant one was the intended system, but it was removed as it was felt it added too much RNG, whereas flat bonuses were at least reliable. That's why the bonuses go from 2 to 6, for d4 through d12. The flat modifier chosen was the average rounded down.
What a cool concept. The bit of randomness makes it much more realistic and fun. Thanks for all the great videos Zee, your hard work is much appreciated!
Fun, maybe, if pure randomness is what you're into. Realistic? I disagree, the d20 is already taking the role of the chance factor, the proficiency bonus is supposed to be there to offer a safety cushion that makes sure that if your character is sufficiently trained in a certain skill, they can't completely fail. With this system, you can roll miserably at something your supposed to be the best at.
@@bdletoast09 Training and practice isn't a guarantee. Even Olympic athletes have off days.
@@Vares65 And that's what the d20 is simulating, even with a +6 proficiency bonus, you can still roll a 2 and end up failing at something you're supposed to be excellent. But with the dice system, you're as likely to break every olympic record as to break your leg trying to jump. That's a bit too jarring for me.
"relfect natural talent" showcase was a hillarious touch.
If it hasn't been mentioned already, Shadow of the Demon Lord does something similar to proficiency dice and background/narrative proficiency in its boons & banes system (Roll a number of d6s equal to your total boons or banes, canceling out as normal, pick the highest number among those rolled and apply it as either a bonus or penalty to the roll), and the GM is encouraged to give boons (or outright successes/rolls in otherwise outright failures) depending on a character's professions
0:31 "D&D Above" That pun on D&D Beyond just makes me wish there was a D&D Plus Ultra
Oooh I like the proficiency dice idea. Bit simpler and fun than abusing a guaranteed +7 to a skill as a rogue at lvl 1
I had to rewind this a few times to follow along, I was too distracted by the cat, lol. The little details of it looking for attention is so spot on.
I haven't ever played dnd but this guy makes me want to even more than I already do everytime he posts a vid.
The excellent system behind the game Godbound uses a mechanic very similar to #3 as shown here: You're good at the things implied by your Facts. The difference being that Godbound uses Facts as a universal collection that covers everything from backgrounds to skills to some things that (for lesser mortal heroes) resemble feats or subclasses, and you get more of them as you level. This makes Facts a lot more flexible and properly shows growth and training when compared to 5e's very minimalist and narrow static backgrounds.
I am glad you did this video! It was only last week I tried to convince the group Which is about to start tomorrow that proficiency dice would be an interesting twist! Going to love dropping this video in Discord chat!
Saw you work on it during a stream. Turned out real nice! Keep it up and stay awesome :)
First new video since I subbed! Hyped!
Profdice is amazing. Since the dice size is double the flat bonus, it can be so fun to see characters sneak out wins that would have been impossible with flat bonuses.
That indeed sounds amazing! The only thing I'm worried about is that with that method, you have 3 sources of numbers to add together (d20 + ability modifier + prof. die). How did that turn out for you? Was it easy?
@@gnomenschuh7606 Well, to be for, you already do use 3 sources for the number, the d20, the ability mod, and the proficiency mod. so the dice rolls themselves are not significantly more complicated. in fact many online rollers like roll20 already have built in prof.die options meaning it's almost no work at all.
there are a few growing pains, but most of them just come down to the DM being consistent. for example, handling advantage/disadvantage. RAW (rules as written) advantage makes you roll two d20's and choose the higher one. This means that if you roll a 15+1 and a 13+8 RAW with advantage you would take the 15 even though the total for the 13 is higher. Now most DM's, at least most i've met, see advantage as taking the better option overall, in which case the 13 would win. In all honesty which roll wins doesn't completely matter, as long as the DM is consistent which taking either the high roll or the high result, and doesn't go back and forth between them.
All in all it the most complicated thing to come out of my table using prof. die, is a small subset of my players want to start using ability mod dice. since the system proficiency puts in place is a dice twice as big as the modifier. so the standard player mod array of 0-5 can be done by stepping up 0, d2, d4, d6, d8, d10, and negative modifiers are just the same dice but in reverse, so a -2 is just -d4.
"well i guess i could just play another RPG a bit" is honestly probably the best advice here. like, even if its just another version of dnd. best way to find new mechanics to steal, or even find a game you enjoy more.
Is this the best ad read ever? It is. Incredible.
The personality trait one looks like if you Frankensteined the Fate system into D&D
The great thing about D&D is its flexibility. You _can_ do it the way it says in the rule book, or you can do something homebrewed. Either that you came up with yourself or someone else did. And the system itself can support _so much_ homebrew.
Love the channel , love the content!! Keep up the amazing work!!
If the idea of traits adding proficiency is exciting, I suggest looking into the Fate system. And I don’t mean that in the negative “just play something else” sort of way. Rather, it’s a neat base mechanic that really integrates mechanics into storytelling.
In Fate, traits (called aspects) can be read in a positive and negative way. Perhaps you have an aspect “Quick to Anger.” The GM can use it against you in times you’re trying to remain calm, but you could use it for you in times that you’re letting your anger fuel you. The system does so by letting you spend Fate points to either gain a +2 bonus or gain a reroll if used by you, or a -2 penalty or have an action compelled if used against you.
These ideas could be implemented into 5e in a similar manner. Design traits that are both positive and negative. Spend a limited resource (like inspiration) to add advantage to a roll in favor of a trait, or gain a use of said limited resource to have disadvantage on a roll related to the trait. The GM is arbiter of when these would apply.
Option #2 is basically how the (very good) ttrpg Spire does rolls/proficiency. It's a d10 system, and when you have a certain skill (say, "fight") when you do something related to that skill, you get to roll an extra d10 and pick the higher value.
The self-deprecation in the closed captions for every 'variant' in the video is a hilarious touch. Zee ahead of the curve as always.
1:10 Oh, so the current "flat" proficiency is basically the average (rounded down) for each proficiency die (2/d4 for levels 1-4, 3/d6 for levels 5-8 and so on). Taking the average instead of rolling a dice was already a thing for monster damage and PC HP increases, so it makes sense we can also go the other way around (rolling dice instead of using an average).
The background based on feels very City of Mist-you add a bonus to your roll based on if something about whatever action you're gonna do is relevant to who you are as a person (i.e. getting a bonus on running away or something because your character is on the track team in uni and also has powers that make them run fast).
I love this episodes ad-read, it's been a long time since I've watched television and even longer since I've seen an honest to Gygax local TV spot, so just hearing someone sell me something in that time of choice is a nice wave of nostalgia
Ignore this response it's scammy af
Probably one of the more entertaining ads I've seen lately lol
Dungeon Crawl Classics uses the background proficiencies for the closest thing it has to skill checks, and it works pretty well. "Tell me why you should be better at this task than an average person in this world" makes it way less rules heavy and helps keep the players thinking about the world instead of just the numbers. In DCC, backgrounds are rolled randomly, so you still have left and right bounds baked into the options.
Option 3 reminds me of Blades in the Dark's mechanics. I started playing it recently, and I really appreciate the relative simplicity of the game mechanics.
If you like the idea of proficiency dice, building off your "or I could try another rpg for a bit" that's exactly what savage worlds does. Instead of a d20 system skills are rolled with varying d4 through d12 system and you generally have a "wild" d6 to go with it. Should give it a shot if you haven't already! There's a lot of fun one shots for it.
Personally, I prefer Pinnacle's previous system before Savage Worlds, even if it's a lot heavier as a system.
You had 10 "Abilities" (like Strength) which gave you the die-type for the roll. You roll a number of dice equal to your skill level, and pick the single highest die. The dice are open-ended, meaning you get to keep rolling them as long as you keep getting the die's top result - so a d4 could give you "10" if you rolled 4, re-rolled another 4, and then a 2.
(Damage rolls were a bit different; you added every die, not just the highest, but the open-endedness was still the same.)
It's just an awesome feeling to get to roll, and re-roll, and re-roll dice, and Savage Worlds isn't really built for that. But it's quicker.
@@TheRawrnstuff Oh yeah they changed systems recently right? Yeah exploding dice were fun. I remember one campaign we consistently killed bosses with a improvised weapon by picking up a rock and just braining them. Good times.
@@LordVarreus Well, Savage Worlds was first published 2004, so I'd hardly call it _recent._
The "Classic" Deadlands system came out 1996, but I actually started with _Deadlands: Hell on Earth_ that used pretty much the same system and released 1998.
That system is a huge reason why and how I got hooked on TTRPGs. If Deadlands didn't exist, not sure if I'd be GM'ing anymore. Vampire: the Masquerade might've done it, or maybe I'd have entirely different hobbies these days.
I know that any iteration of the d20-system wouldn't have won me over to the same extent.
Heh that sales pitch at the end. Reminds me of those old monster truck rally adds: "Buying our products gets you a whole seat at the table BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE!"
This is such a cool rule, I'll def be using some of these.
I love variant #3, a version of which appears in 13th Age but can be used in any D20 game. It makes the characters make more sense as characters.
Best dnd animation content creator hands down
Fun fact: proficiency dice *kinda* exist in Lancer (basically if Titanfall and DnD had a baby), instead of advantages and disadvantages there's accuracy and difficulty. You roll a d6, and pick the highest if there's multiple dice, then add or subtract to your d20 roll. While there's still standard bonuses like +2 for staying calm in a high stress situation those only effect narrative play unless the DM says otherwise.
Lancer seems extremely cool, I really like the setting info. I haven't gotten to play a game of it yet, but it's one I want to get to eventually for sure.
lol i love the monster truck voice at the end for the ad.
I've been working on a version of Caltrop Core that uses the personality/background proficiency concept. You basically have 3 "skills" that you're good at, and then you have 3 "traits" that are based on your character.
So if you're a thief and you have a pickpocketing skill, you roll 1 die to try and pickpocket. If you're a thief who's also a Robin Hood "takes from the rich and gives to the poor" character, then pickpocketing from a rich person is in character, so you roll 2 dice. Highest dice roll is the only one that matters, so doing things that are in character basically gives you advantage on every roll.
This is roughly how Ironclaw handles it.
Your species and career are stats that are represented by dice instead of numbers, and those dice are then added to skill checks specified by your species and career.
Careers are sorta like the One DnD playtest rules for backgrounds, and species operates roughly the same way, but they each give you access to slightly different feats/options, with career options usually encompassing training and equipment and species options being more focused on biological features.
Ey! A person who knows Ironclaw. I use to run that game in college for a bunch of friends... I was accidentally their furry awakening on that, but we had a load of fun with the story.
Thank goodness for subtitles but the sound in the background was really loud in this and I enjoy your voice!
The little bit at "tools" was hilarious to me
In star wars rpg it's got it's own dice system, and dice pools are made up of different kinds of dice based on how hard the skill check is, your natural ability, and your proficiency in abilities.
You got me to listen to the whole ad with the monster truck announcer voice lol
So beautifully animated...
That's good, Zee. The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.
Can't wait for you talking about spell points.
Im glad someone else read that section in the book cause i feel like the only one sometimes lol
Love the 80's/90's style hard sell on the end
I was just reading up on this last night! Cool!
OG Deadlands had a good way of handling negative personality traits - they were always optional, but you got more XP when you specifically decided to disadvantage yourself with them. (This was fairly easy to do in Deadlands, as you were granted various levels of Poker Chips when you did something cool or funny or stylish - which could be cashed in at the end of a session for XP.)
I've used the Poker Chip variation in D&D before - using different-colored glass beads (the kind traditionally used as markers in Magic: the Gathering), to represent Gems as opposed to Poker Chips - it worked pretty well. It does make for a more cinematic experience though, as you can use the Chip/Beads to boost skill rolls and whatnot.
I can even see what specific RPGs these variants make D&D more like. Proficiency Dice are more Savage Worlds, where your skills and abilities are themselves represented by different die types that you roll together. Personality Trait proficiency is a kind of Fate Core spin, where characters have a bunch of "Aspects" that are short phrases you can invoke positively or negatively for different advantages.
That ad read was hilarious.
I have been using both the proficiency dice and personality advantage / disadvantage in my games for a few years before this video and they make the game way more fun IMO. My players began expressing their characters personality more and the variation in the numbers keeps things from being to predictable.
Cool stuff, I’ve done proficiency dice in the past end it always made roles feel fresher, especially after playing hours and hours of DND. Love the videos!
In an old homebrew I allowed chaos monks.
AC was d20 plus dex plus wisdom. No base 10.
Flurry was a growing dice type from D3 - d10 based on level. If called even if you roll a one that was the complete use of flurry as a full round action.
They could never take any number on a check and had to roll for all skills.
Last was a long list of changes made to the monk abilities like my favorite Chaos Embodiment. This replaced perfect body with something more twisted. You grew a random limb or mutation once per day, losing the one from before. These ranged from an extra arm that could grapple an enemy on that side of the body all the way to bone and sinew growth making a weeping willow of carnage spring from your back.
It was a lot of fun and yes they all died to stupidly low rolls at the worst times.
Pathfinder 2nd edition actually has my favorite proficiency system.
It's a nice blend of deep & simple.
Note variant 3 & 4 was how old school D&D ( OD&D , B/X , BECMI & AD&D ) was done.
The last thing you described is sort of how Cortex works. In that system, you build up a dice pool, and two of the things that go into that are your Attribute (think your ability score, the "how" you're doing a thing) and a Value (the reason "why" you're doing it). Bigger dice are better, smaller dice are worse, so if you're doing something that you're technically good at but that goes against your code of ethics, you have more of a chance to mess up.
It's a cool system, I have the _Tales of Xadia_ book, but it's more of a story game than D&D and other more crunchy games.
One that I like is proficiency points. You multiply the number of skills you get, for most it's 2 from class and 2 from background, times your proficiency bonus ,2 at first level, for a total of 8 points which you can distribute between skills available for class and background. As your proficiency increases you add skill points.
Big proficiency dice fan here. I like rolling more dice, I like that it makes it easier to detach ability scores from skills, and I like that it adds a little bell curve to the probability distribution.
Honestly I feel like this is the version the 5e designers wanted to be the default. Unfortunately, my players never seemed to get the hang of it.
If you want to bel curve skills specifically (basically make a difference between non-proficient, proficient, and Expert) I like the idea of replacing the 1d20 with 2d10 (so more of a curve) with proficiency giving the die and Expert maximizing the die (so the same as the 'default' 5e Expert rule).
This gives a good curve to skills (DC20 feels really difficult now at 1% chance for the untrained before ability modifiers) and while proficency and Expert have the same maximum value, the distribution between the two is very different.
Unfortunately, I have not run it at a table, but I personally like the intuition around it, for the lack of a better term.
@@seanboyd2898 Yep, I also like 2d10, tried it out a few times. Again though, my players seem to prefer the base d20. If only someone would DM for me using all the rules I prefer....
you could flesh out background proficiency, have the players choose one background and then somewhere between 2-3 interests which can be other backgrounds. Characters get a proficiency bonus for any dice roll which could apply to their background and then a +1 for interests.
i love the idea of the narrative flaws and bonds prof. Ive often felt that was an area where there should be more mechanics.
@ZeeBashew This you lol
I love the look of the DM at 2:37. Tell me that man's appearance isn't "DM coded"
#3, Background Proficiencies, is basically how 13th Age does it. You have 8 points to create a sort of competency list, where you might have a +5 in something you spent a lot of time on (e.g. a Ranger's given themselves a +5 Living in the Wilderness background, a +2 in Trade and a +1 in Spelunking), or +3/+3/+2 in a more well-rounded player with a bunch of smaller things in their background, and then as long as you can convince the DM that your character's background applies, you get that proficiency bonus in your current skill check.
Upsides: Feels great to be good at the thing your character's supposed to be good at, makes you think a little more about your character's backstory, classes like druids aren't completely dicked over for competencies like in D&D.
Downsides: Every skill check might be time for an argument with the DM if there's any friction at the table, and even players who aren't power-players will struggle to figure out what's the 'right' level of power for them.
Of course, since it's 13th Age, you also get to add your level to the skill check, because you're all big damn heroes and the numbers have to go up!
Proficiency dice sounds awesome. If for no other reason than you get to roll more math rocks.
You may want to look at Open Legend RPG. Definitely gives the multiple dice feeling that proficiency dice give.
Proficiency bonus adds a certain level of consistency to games that take themselves at least somewhat seriously. Changing it into dice makes the game more swingy in a game where a d20 already has huge variance. Probably better for casual groups that don't care as much for a semblance of balance.
Definitely feeling like trying out that first variant
Two things, 1. Amazing ad roll at the end there.
2. If you're looking for a new rpg Zee, some of these proficiency variants match up perfectly with the Fate (or Fate Accelerated) systems
Great video Zee. It is funny you mention the proficiency dice chart in D&D 5e because Renegade Game Studio's Essence20 TTRPG system is pretty much built on a similar idea. Your Athletics isn't +4, you just roll a d8 and add it to a d20 roll for example. They also do some fundamental tweaks to the system to account for crazy dice swings like story points, lower DCs and abilities that let you re-roll 1s or get Edge/Snag (Advantage/Disadvantage)
Right now it's being used for TTRPG adaptations of Hasbro properties. Power Rangers, GI Joe, and Transformers have all come out and My Little Pony is coming out soon. People are already asking for a setting agnostic core rulebook :D.
NAILED the monster truck rally commercial at the end there. 😂
No idea if I'll ever use this but proficiency dice is a fantastic idea!
My table and I loved the randomness of proficiency dice. Also on average, you'll have a higher result than you would with a flat bonus.
I’m glad see agknowledged trying another game at the end, given that proficiency dice is kind of the whole way deadlands rolls, where instead of doing d20, your proficiency level determines what die you roll
This video demonstrates a high proficiency in gaming, rules understanding, cartoon animation and creativity
The return of the king 👑
This is a super cool idea, really reminds me of Savage Worlds.
Background proficiency sounds like how it's done in 13th Age - gotta say, big fan. Moved to 13A from 5e a year or so back and that's one of the things I've really enjoyed about it.
I’m running a d&d game with the pathfinder 1e skill system grafted in at the moment and I really love it - it makes for much more nuanced non-combat rolling and there’s the chance to specialise in a way d&d just isn’t up to.
I love me some alternative rules.
Infact last night I was trying to come up with a method for players to play a classless campaign where they get items that allow them to try out each classes features. As a way of revitalizing each class, showcasing each class to new players, and cause it sounded like a cool new idea.
If you want to stay within DnD
Your weapon grants you 1 level in a class. If you're a wizard it's a book. Sorcerers can wear a necklace that brings out their inner potential and warlocks can make a pact with a sentient book or sword. Bards can use an instrument or microphone to get their level, Druids a wooden staff.
If you want to level up past 1 you can have variants of these but I would stop at lv3 of any class available to your players. Instead, level 4 and up can turn into "lightsabers". What I mean is, every lightsaber is personal but they all are signs you're a Jedi. So, the players have to create their own up leveled gear.
Example: I want to be a level 4 barbarian. I will hunt a large creature, let's say an owlbear. My party can get me here. But I will fight it solo and when I'm done I will make a helmet of bone and feathers. To hit level 5 I shall add a cape that I've made from another monster. Level 6 I will take apart a construct and have a smith guide me through making a hammer. It won't be perfect but it is mine.
Now you have individual stories plus group stories and tension.
Proficiency-for-background is the 13th Age solution: it works but you'll want to make backgrounds a bit more than "last job". 13th Age recommends backgrounds are worded a bit more cleverly: two of "role, organization, location". So, "priest of the 100 Swords mercenary company", "Neverwinter guard" or "member of the Sigil Door-Makers Guild".