Really like your ideas and agree there's room for improvement, but it's worth keeping in mind that GD has a pretty large casual audience that might not be able to vote as accurately. The best bet might be to keep the existing 5-face system like you said, but add an OPTIONAL (maybe even unlockable) extra step where you can lock in something more specific - for those with a stronger opinion. Also, all the existing demons could probably gain a retroactive difficulty level based on the breakdown of each existing demon vote :)
This is why I use the GD Demon Ladder, or GDDL. It shows the difficulty and enjoyment of levels by ranking with decimals. We should have something like this in game.
@@FranDeF I did, I gave them both a tier 4 but it does pretty much nothing considering toe2 is (3.03) on the gddl and sky tower is (3.75) on the gddl, there is a pretty huge gap.
This slider idea is actually a wonderful solution. There are times where I want to start practicing an insane demon for example, but I don’t exactly want to commit to something that is actually near extreme difficulty, so being able to know exactly how difficult a level is considered to be before committing to beating it would be great. I hope RobTop considers a rework like this. Also assigning actual numbers to the difficulties makes them way less arbitrary and would make it much easier to tell if a potential new hardest will be a good step or a painful jump. Great idea!
Also addinng numbers past 30 is easy so as the game's ceiling increases, the difficulty of levels stays the same. Instead of levels changing because of relativity.
Personally I kinda disagree. Even with how wide the current rating system is, there's still so much subjectivity when it comes to difficulty. Like for example, I beat artificial climb fairly quickly as an insane demon, thought it was like a 7/10 difficulty for an insane. But now it's extreme demon, even though I personally don't even think it's close. Extreme demons are the massive exception to this, and I think they should have tiers or something, but I don't think the system should come across as more precise than it can be. It's better to play a level you think is 1 difficulty off rather than 5 tiers off I reckon
@TrideGD but i beat doomed and thought it was a medium demon and now its insane demon, this idea shows you the average of what people find it not just a random face which is technically already a scale of 1-5 but kinda sucks imo
I disagree with you. While it is true that some people will have easier or harder times with certain levels, increasing the variability/subjectivity in difficulty, I believe that such a large sample of players and their opinions would eventually level the variability out. It might be true that a certain level with an “8” average might actually be harder for some players than one with an “8.5” average, but since the scores are decided on by a large sample of players (including the ones who think the “8” level is harder), that should end up being the exception for players.
it also annoys me that no matter for what diff of demon you complete, you get 10 stars instead of something like 10 for easy 12 for medium 15 for hard 18 for insane and then 20 for extreme we really need rework of demon rating
13:14 I think the best solution would be to have different star ratings, Like how hard levels can be 4 or 5 stars. But now going beyond 10 stars also solving the star issue.
12:56 - wouldn't it be cool if the faces change slowly to the next difficulty? Like the easy demon face becomes more and more the medium demon face and so on?
There's a game called JTOH, and the way they rate levels are like this: easy levels have decimals. The higher the decimal is, the harder us the easy difficulty tower. There's baseline easy, mid easy, high easy, and peak easy Wich is 1.9 or above
Funnily enough Flood Escape 2 has similar system to JTHO and I think it was inspired by JTHO, cause there is 6 total visible difficultys (10 difficultys total) and 6.0-6.99 is a crazy+ and 7 Is extreme. This is to help people not make massive jumps by accident.
Robtop decided Butiti is 5 stars. He's the only one that can assign stars to any level. Moderators just send the level to him, alongside the difficulty they believe that level deserves.
I have an idea that it could show which percentage of voters voted that difficulty for example: 20% voted medium demon 65% voted hard demon and 15% voted insane demon. Then there would be no inaccuracies that the level was rated wrong because it is up to You how to interpret the data. Everything will stay the same, except now player can see and conclude how hard the demon is.
Guys, geode just exists... There are a lot of modes that let you add new difficulties.. even if its not a demon. And GDDL list, which is also available in geode
I think there should be a difficulty rating system like in the roblox game Juke's Towers of Hell. Basically, the towers in the game are rated on a chart, And this chart tells you a more exact difficulty of the tower. The way they do this is by putting them on a place in the difficulty chart depending on how hard it is. Now, these difficulties can be separated into sub difficulties. The sub difficulties are another better way of explaining where a tower is on the chart. These sub difficulties being Bottom, Low, Mid, High, and Peak. Bottom being the easiest of the difficulty, and peak being the hardest. There are also more specific ones that I like to call "In-Between Sub Difficulties". These being Bottom-Low, Low-Mid, Mid-High, and High-Peak. If you couldn't tell, these are the in-betweens of the normal sub difficulties. (You CAN also use decimals for difficulty like how osu! does, but you don't have to be that specific.) I think a similar thing can be applied for Geometry Dash. So a level like Bloodbath would be a low-mid extreme demon, Windy landscape would be a bottom insane demon, and Future Funk would be a low hard demon. This could be a better way to determine a demon's difficulty. To make it even better, you can also put them in tiers like GDDL does. TL:DR make it like the jtoh difficulty system and then also add tiers
if anyone wants an ingame solution that exists right now, kiba's "grandpa demon" mod on geode def helps. Now I can know that my hardest is a supreme demon 💪
He could just keep the current system but when the average is calculated it doesnt just choose the difficulty but also display a tier or other number under the difficulty. So for example if most people vote easy demon but a decent amount vote medium or hard the average might shift closer to medium. This way, it doesnt require any more precision from the voters, but still provide more precision.
A lot of people are saying just use mods, that shouldn't be the case whatsoever, you shouldn't have to install third party modifications just to get an accurate representation of difficulty in this game, this is where I feel like robtop just got lazy in that front and just pins it on the community to make stuff for the game even though he is the developer.
@@CorisesAltAccount yea me too, tbh I made the level back in like April or May but didn't really focus on it that much till like around the end of July
If they ever add more demon difficulties, or difficulties in general, ill be so upset, the people good enough to beat extremes know the difference, also, 2:47 i say this all the time in comments and stuff and get clowned on for it lol
I wouldnt like to see new difficulties, however after seeing evw’s idea i actually love it, i would love to see this 1-30 rating system implemented in the game
Meh, the osu! star rating system doesn't account for special mapping styles like "tech" maps with crazy sliders & patterns. It's the same kind of thing in GD when you compare skill-based ship/wave sections to memory cube/robot sections. It's always going to be easier or harder depending on an individual's skillset. Though I agree having some sort of numbered difficulty rating system would be great to give a general idea of the difficulty of levels with the same rating. I just doubt RobTop would ever be willing to code something like this in a reasonable amount of time, considering 1 RobTop week = 2 human years.
We should be able to do the same but with the rarity of the levels like rating it rate, featured, epic, legendary and mythic because so many levels got robbed just because RobTob decided to.
@@filispeed_0111 yeah but it’s kinda similar when rob has the tendency to rerate a level for it’s stars difficulty. Without forgetting that he told us it the NCS gauntlet contest that some level will get a rerate of their rarity so I don’t why we couldn’t change rarity ourselves.
@@wellbesnapjb5957 Im not sure if rerating also changes the creator points counter, probably not. I think thats fair, the initial rarity could be what gives the creator points and then we decide if its really worth that rarity.
@@filispeed_0111 yeah I don’t know either, but so many creators updates their levels and it so sad that sometime we get mid levels that just transforms into masterpieces while their level are still rated only epic or feature when they could deserve more (for exemple Anamnesis and Hush)
Another issue is that certain levels are much easier or harder for certain players depending on their skillset. This is definitely the case in classic levels, but it’s especially prevalent in platformers. I’ve been working for months to try to beat every single platformer that isn’t extreme demon, and the last level I have left is “Ritual of Calamity” a recreation of the Brimstone Witch fight from Terraria Calamity. Many people, including myself, find it harder than most platformer extreme demons, but lots of the people who play it are terraria players that understandably beat it pretty easily and rate it medium/hard demon, resulting in a final rating of insane demon.
you have the problem flipped dude. The issue is platformer levels having overrated difficulties compared to classic ones. Not this. Massive shame you are also part of this insane delusion
Honestly, I feel like more specificity would just lead to more inaccuracy. Even with only the 5 ratings, some levels are are pretty inaccurate by 1 or even 2 levels, for example, Shiver and The Nightmare shouldn’t even be demons at all.
I would only add new difficulties to the extreme demons, because is there where difficulty has been taken to extreme, so the hardest level now is far away from the hardest levels years ago. Ok the subdivision idea is so good
my idea is that just like in osu gd could calculate levels difficulty in terms of how wide are the spaces where you can click in each input (could be calculated by using that mod that shows from where to where you can click and not die with trajectory). that would make rating way more objective. but here comes problem with memory levels. i know its hard to manage, but its definitely possible, its just the matter of robtop willing to improve his game and actually care about players which is debatable with how he is acting about cbf. good executable idea, but probably will never be in the game
Baaaad idea Think about it, if people were given a slider option to vote for difficulty, take into consideration the trolls who would rate things like Bloodlust or Abyss of Darkness as easy demons just to screw up the rating. Slider ratings go off the average/median, so if 20 people vote, and 10 say it’s easy while 10 say it’s hard, it’ll average it out and put it as medium. Averaging is solid but there has to be a way to weed out the trolls who will inevitably break the rating just to screw with people
Your argument is flawed because people could just troll right now with the current system, and yet it works because people giving real ratings heavily outweigh the trolls. They are both rating systems with the same base concept, the one he suggests is just more detailed although I do have some problems with it
@@usualkhaos2576 be that as it may, a rating system like this is very flawed. Shiver, an easy demon, 500 people vote, 250 say it’s a 0.1, and 500 say it’s 0.2, where will it fall? 250 people won’t like the rating. This really kinda doesn’t work well. A better alternative would be to introduce a sort of “inbetween,” like a demon isn’t exactly medium but it’s not HARD, so it would fit into the inbetween. Overall I kinda don’t get why this is even a problem, there’s ALWAYS gonna be issues with a community voting and rating, so regardless of what’s done it won’t fix anything if anyone can rate
@@Zerathina ok that makes way more sense, but I think you still gotta understand the importance of community rating. There are not many things in-game that regular people can decide, so being able to decide demons has always been pretty cool to everyone. If 0.1 gets 250 votes, and 0.2 gets 500 for an easy, then it should just be the average like it should be (about .17, where people can vote up to one decimal place but the result gives a two decimal number) this helps show a culmination of player opinions pretty well so I don’t think people would get mad from a rating that has a .07 difference from their own rating. Similar to if someone right now rates something a medium demon but most other people rate it an easy demon, they would just have to deal with it and if they throw a fit over something like that then oh well. My biggest problem is with higher levels like extreme demons for evw’s rating system. Since the overwhelming majority would add their precise opinion without ever trying or beating the level, the “points” just wouldn’t be accurate. I think what would be better is if we keep the same system (which is pretty simple so there is not really an issue with opinions on ratings), but maybe you can give it a detailed rating upon completion or something along the lines of that.
Yeah rob should make it so that only people who have got for example 50% on the level could rate the difficulty and also that the harder the demon the more stars it would give. Because as he said the difficulty gap between some demons is absolutely insane
@@ScabberJazzThat would also lead to the issue of extremely skilled people severely underrating the difficulties of levels below their skillsets, eg, someone like Wpopoff can find a very hard insane demon just as easy as a medium demon.
That's wrong, the same argument was used when the different difficulties categories were added for the demons. Trolls are not as relevant when rating, dw.
I know there isn’t a harder demon and a Extreme rating, if you think about it a insane demon is a harder demon while extreme demon is a insane demon in reality.
3:36 osu!mania player here, osu!'s star rating has the exact same problem, at least in mania. some maps like Worldwide Choppers which is 5 stars is as hard as some 6.5-6.7 star maps. a more insane example is the map Angel Echo L'appel du vide-, recently ranked, and is one of the hardest ranked maps in osu!mania 4 key, it is only 6.65 stars. now the map Fallen Symphony, widely regarded as a "farm map" [meaning the star rating is higher than the skill needed], is 8.45 stars [however it plays more like a 7 star]. Most players will agree that Angel Echo L'appel du vide- is SIGNFICANTLY harder than Fallen Symphony edit: one last example, another map that is deceptively difficult is The Death Of God's Will [the ultrakill song] mapped by 'randomeLoL'. the star rating is a mere 5 stars, but the map much, much harder. However, it is not as bad as Angel Echo L'appel du vide-
0:37 Well, you gotta understand, older demon levels didn’t have an established rating system back then, and the skill ceiling was so low compared to today, so judging older demons on how easy they are is not very fair tbh. Js my opinion tho
i would like to be able to see a bar graph of how many people voted for each difficulty rating - both for stars and for demons. for instance, an easy demon might have 30% 8star votes, 40% 9star votes, and 30% 10star votes, and 90% of the demon subcategory votes could be easy. if opinions are more split, this would represent that
A couple ideas: -easy demons should be able to be demoted if they're deemed not hard enough, I think it's a little ridiculous that there are easy demons that are easier than clutterfunk -especially with demon levels, I think you should only be able to vote on the difficulty if you've beaten it in-game (or maybe you would be able to rate the difficulty as normal without beating it, but you'd only get access to the numbered tier voting system after you beat it) -newly rated demons should have a unique icon that indicates there aren't enough votes to determine their true difficulty yet
The thing is not about 9 star rated as easy demon but the thing is that THE EPIC LEVEL THAT WORTHY OF MYTHIC HAVE NOT GOT THEIR MYTHIC RATING LIKE "CHANGE OF SCENE"
I think this is a good rate system that needs to be implemented for many reasons. There are tons of very easy demons then some very hard easy demons and this can help new players or existing to start harder levels at a good pace.
i feel like it should correlate to the stars it gives you because shiver and tidal wave are worth the same amount. you should also be able to change your vote for the purpose of difficulty inflation as eventually, a level like B will become an easy demon.
the funny thing is, we absolutely did. this is a problem that really needs to be talked about wayy more bc its actually a problem not only for veterans but for many casuals and beginners as well...
We literally needed. There's literally 9 stars being easy demons while some easy demons being 9 stars or medium demons. You can compare an average easy demon to a GDDP demon levels. Or what was shown in the video. It would help players know what demon they want to aim for, you could beat the nightmare but not do one of the hardest easy demons when Infact their corresponding difficulty shows that they are no different in difficulty. You should realize that.
@@TeenagerInBlack819 Breaking News Guys! Its been proven that just because conversations on a topic already exist it definitely guarantees that not a single another one with a unique and nuanced perspective is allowed! Lets stop talking about all the problems in the world that have already been talked about a lot. That is DEFINITELY how any issue has been solved throughout world history! Absolutely Sensational ^_^
I've completed an Extreme (Hexagonestestestest) in 21 attempts, and the only extreme I've completed before this one is Retention. So yes, there's a big issue with demon rating
In addition I think you should only be able to rate the level after you've beaten it or done it in practice so people aren't as likely to troll rate, like when Cataclysm was rerated to insane demon several years ago (forgot what for but for some reason it made everyone troll rate the level).
I think another easy way to make the demon rates more accurate would be to make a demon give you more stars depending on how hard the community decides it is. People can vote on the amount of stars. Either way it’s kinda funny that right now TOE 2 gives you more starts than levels like slaughterhouse
A possible solution would be for Rob to implement a system that calculates the average number of attempts it takes for people who have beaten the level to beat it (for their first time). This is less subjective than the slider and I would assume it would be more accurate than a slider but it wouldn't change the actual rating but (for example assume the level was rated as an easy demon) serve as a way for people to see whether it is an easier or more difficult easy demon.
Another Idea that comes from the community is putting like adjective descriptions in front of the tier, for example an easy insane demon, or a remorseless extreme demon. (comes from the insane demon spreadsheet and non-listworthy extreme demon sheet)
Another approach could be to use average attempt total before first completion (ignoring extreme outliers), and ranking the demons based on certain thresholds. You wouldn't even have to get rid of the current system, you could simply supplement it with this data. It would certainly be a huge help to me personally.
I was wishing to see the jtoh rate system in the video but I think it should also be considered with it's range from (baseline being absolute easiest and peak being the top of it)
I feel like this is the most elegant way to change the difficulty rating without completely changing how ratings work in game. I think the community average idea should be kept in place as well.
1 thing the game can improve and that is adding a sub difficulty like jtoh ones ex bottom easy demon, low easy demon, high easy demon and peak easy demon
I would say something like "oh, well the demons in between mod fixes that" but the problem with that is that it's a mod. Not everyone uses, or even has access to mods so I don't think it's really fair to say that one fixes it. That's why it should be implemented in the base game.
Good idea, but instead of up to 30 just keep it as level 5 for max difficulty for each demon rating. The placement can be under the demon rating in a smaller print
The slider solution could be really cool to have in game, I feel like people would have to have beaten it to vote on the difficulties so that more casual players wouldn’t play 10 seconds of a hard demon and vote it 30
I feel like if a system like that was added a it would need a lot of popular levels to initially have agreed upon numbers for people to reference, then everyone would eventually get used to oh this is harder than this but easier than this and come up with pretty accurate numbers
personally i think that very easy demons should simply be moved down to insane, then bunch the top 100 levels in extreme and everything else can get shuffled down in a domino affect from that point on.
I'd make the visual difficulty rating something that would just change the color of the eyes to the same order as how the demons are already sorted. For example, an easy insane demon would have blue eyes, a medium insane demon would have green eyes, and a hard insane demon would have orange eyes.
if stuff gets too hard, the level tiers could always be extended also to make sure that it's not like ppl are trolling, your voting power would be proportional to your progress in the level and if your vote is way too much off from what everyone else says (like +10 tiers), it's invalidated or less significant
Really like your ideas and agree there's room for improvement, but it's worth keeping in mind that GD has a pretty large casual audience that might not be able to vote as accurately. The best bet might be to keep the existing 5-face system like you said, but add an OPTIONAL (maybe even unlockable) extra step where you can lock in something more specific - for those with a stronger opinion.
Also, all the existing demons could probably gain a retroactive difficulty level based on the breakdown of each existing demon vote :)
First reply
Yeah huuuuuu
only 3 likes?
Imagine if I reply so many times that I just reach the limit of 500 and there is no where to go
I mean
Ironically enough, the hardest 9 star (death machine by bladin) is harder than the hardest easy demon
its insane demon diff so its harder than hardest medium demon (maybe even hardest hard demon) and it is defo harder than low-end insane demons
Also seasonal heaven should be a demon too
It’s like ultrasonic difficulty
@@vincentpham991 fax, also hellgate menace imo is harder than darkness keeper
@@EVANDABEANZ then its prob harder than the hardest hard demon then
9 star levels are harder than easy demons
tbh, its true
Agreed
Compare "Fantabulous Bagel" to "Yeux". I want you to guess which one's the 9 star and which one's the demon.
I agree
rarely
This is why I use the GD Demon Ladder, or GDDL. It shows the difficulty and enjoyment of levels by ranking with decimals. We should have something like this in game.
Exactly the reason why GDDL exists.
Kindred pfp nice
Neeko > all
Sky Tower is a tier 4 demon but Toe2 is a tier 3 demon but imo Toe2>Sky Tower in difficulty
@@SygmaDude you know you can vote on the tier of levels in gddl right?
@@FranDeF I did, I gave them both a tier 4 but it does pretty much nothing considering toe2 is (3.03) on the gddl and sky tower is (3.75) on the gddl, there is a pretty huge gap.
@@SygmaDudethis is why I don't use the Gddl
This is where mods like Grandpa Demon, Demons In Between, and GDDL Integration come in clutch
here before it gets blown up and if it does pls sub
Same
@@bAbAbOiplayzsame
Demons inbetween is such a good fuckin mod
What about Fake rate
This slider idea is actually a wonderful solution. There are times where I want to start practicing an insane demon for example, but I don’t exactly want to commit to something that is actually near extreme difficulty, so being able to know exactly how difficult a level is considered to be before committing to beating it would be great. I hope RobTop considers a rework like this.
Also assigning actual numbers to the difficulties makes them way less arbitrary and would make it much easier to tell if a potential new hardest will be a good step or a painful jump. Great idea!
right now you could use the gddl
Also addinng numbers past 30 is easy so as the game's ceiling increases, the difficulty of levels stays the same. Instead of levels changing because of relativity.
There's also an insane demons list you can use as guidance although the easiest one's aren't on there.
I'm glad you're making these commentary style videos, I really enjoy them.
Fun fact: Blast Processing has the same amount of stars as Avernus
@TheRealAlan-u4ssame with avernus
Personally I kinda disagree. Even with how wide the current rating system is, there's still so much subjectivity when it comes to difficulty. Like for example, I beat artificial climb fairly quickly as an insane demon, thought it was like a 7/10 difficulty for an insane. But now it's extreme demon, even though I personally don't even think it's close. Extreme demons are the massive exception to this, and I think they should have tiers or something, but I don't think the system should come across as more precise than it can be. It's better to play a level you think is 1 difficulty off rather than 5 tiers off I reckon
Yoooo hi tride 👋
ok
ok
@TrideGD but i beat doomed and thought it was a medium demon and now its insane demon, this idea shows you the average of what people find it not just a random face which is technically already a scale of 1-5 but kinda sucks imo
I disagree with you. While it is true that some people will have easier or harder times with certain levels, increasing the variability/subjectivity in difficulty, I believe that such a large sample of players and their opinions would eventually level the variability out. It might be true that a certain level with an “8” average might actually be harder for some players than one with an “8.5” average, but since the scores are decided on by a large sample of players (including the ones who think the “8” level is harder), that should end up being the exception for players.
it also annoys me that no matter for what diff of demon you complete, you get 10 stars instead of something like
10 for easy
12 for medium
15 for hard
18 for insane
and then 20 for extreme
we really need rework of demon rating
Nah it should probably be more like this
10 for easy
15 for medium
20 for hard
30 for insane
and 50 for extreme
@@ScabberJazz I'd say 50 is too much, I think 30 would be the max:
10 easy
15 medium
20 hard
25 insane
30 extreme
but then every one could vote for levels to be extremes for more stars.
@@MathiasLøwigyeah
@@MathiasLøwig people already vote for extreme to seem better
13:14 I think the best solution would be to have different star ratings, Like how hard levels can be 4 or 5 stars. But now going beyond 10 stars also solving the star issue.
12:56 - wouldn't it be cool if the faces change slowly to the next difficulty? Like the easy demon face becomes more and more the medium demon face and so on?
There's a game called JTOH, and the way they rate levels are like this: easy levels have decimals. The higher the decimal is, the harder us the easy difficulty tower. There's baseline easy, mid easy, high easy, and peak easy Wich is 1.9 or above
tofn barely rem
Togf mid terri
Funnily enough Flood Escape 2 has similar system to JTHO and I think it was inspired by JTHO, cause there is 6 total visible difficultys (10 difficultys total) and 6.0-6.99 is a crazy+ and 7 Is extreme. This is to help people not make massive jumps by accident.
@@lukerickett6253 tovh high extreme
Tots mid intense
Crazy how Butiti by Jonathan GD is still rated Harder when a 9 stars is way more fitting
Duse, that shit is easy demon material. This demon rating system needs a rework
Robtop decided Butiti is 5 stars. He's the only one that can assign stars to any level.
Moderators just send the level to him, alongside the difficulty they believe that level deserves.
Just putting mustache to the demon face could represent how hard it actually is...
They're demons I think mustaches will make them even more goofier lmao
bigger the mustache, bigger the difficulty...
11:57 "I'm something of a GD Moderator myself"
purple epic rating 💀
@@value1lol That's a Legendary Rating Bro 💀
@@TheSuperGreenGTeam yes i know im just saying what evw thought
I have an idea that it could show which percentage of voters voted that difficulty for example: 20% voted medium demon 65% voted hard demon and 15% voted insane demon. Then there would be no inaccuracies that the level was rated wrong because it is up to You how to interpret the data. Everything will stay the same, except now player can see and conclude how hard the demon is.
And the fact that Tidal Wave gives the same amount of stars as The Nightmare
I think the game has a rating problem in general.
i agree
The cutoff for what counts as a Medium Demon in particular is extremely arbitrary, Sidestep is significantly harder than B for example
ICDX and Windy Landscape both being insane demon doesnt make any sense either
That makes a lot more sense than Acu and Tidal Wave being the same difficulty though 💀
@@nathanw9770 youre right 😭😭😂😂
Guys, geode just exists... There are a lot of modes that let you add new difficulties.. even if its not a demon. And GDDL list, which is also available in geode
Exactly...
They're just mods
Not everyone has mods and geometry dash being robtop's game must have these modifications directly built in-game .
Mods shouldn’t be something that has to cover in for the games wrongdoings
@@Briordasher the gddl list is not just a geode mod, it's a web page.
yeah im literally only do mobile so yh
I think there should be a difficulty rating system like in the roblox game Juke's Towers of Hell. Basically, the towers in the game are rated on a chart, And this chart tells you a more exact difficulty of the tower. The way they do this is by putting them on a place in the difficulty chart depending on how hard it is. Now, these difficulties can be separated into sub difficulties. The sub difficulties are another better way of explaining where a tower is on the chart. These sub difficulties being Bottom, Low, Mid, High, and Peak. Bottom being the easiest of the difficulty, and peak being the hardest. There are also more specific ones that I like to call "In-Between Sub Difficulties". These being Bottom-Low, Low-Mid, Mid-High, and High-Peak. If you couldn't tell, these are the in-betweens of the normal sub difficulties. (You CAN also use decimals for difficulty like how osu! does, but you don't have to be that specific.) I think a similar thing can be applied for Geometry Dash. So a level like Bloodbath would be a low-mid extreme demon, Windy landscape would be a bottom insane demon, and Future Funk would be a low hard demon. This could be a better way to determine a demon's difficulty. To make it even better, you can also put them in tiers like GDDL does.
TL:DR make it like the jtoh difficulty system and then also add tiers
This is what i think GD needs.
Future funk isn't a low hard demon imo, even the gdladder website says its about the same tier as forsaken neon, so its about mid tier hard demon diff
What about ToSO it was originally rated peak rem but now is like mid extreme ☠️
@@srimattheuniverseshow toso
Bro predicted 576 current rating
if anyone wants an ingame solution that exists right now, kiba's "grandpa demon" mod on geode def helps.
Now I can know that my hardest is a supreme demon 💪
This would be a VERY cool feature to have in the game!
the gddl mod on geode does the ingame rating and shows the decimals, its a fantastic mod and really does help when I’m finding new levels
He could just keep the current system but when the average is calculated it doesnt just choose the difficulty but also display a tier or other number under the difficulty.
So for example if most people vote easy demon but a decent amount vote medium or hard the average might shift closer to medium.
This way, it doesnt require any more precision from the voters, but still provide more precision.
A lot of people are saying just use mods, that shouldn't be the case whatsoever, you shouldn't have to install third party modifications just to get an accurate representation of difficulty in this game, this is where I feel like robtop just got lazy in that front and just pins it on the community to make stuff for the game even though he is the developer.
Dudes be like "This demon shouldn't be rated like this"
My brother in Christ, you made the difficulty
It's nice seeing how big your channel has gotten! Been here since your Catherine playthrough
1:10 This is not Easy Demon, this is Medium Demon!
I made a clubstep buff for you. Lmk if you're interested in trying it out and I can give you a private copy of the current state it's in.
Lol.
thats so cool
I loved his buffed levels series. I hope he sees your comment and makes a video on it
@@CorisesAltAccount yea me too, tbh I made the level back in like April or May but didn't really focus on it that much till like around the end of July
He's not gonna see your comment lmao, I don't think he responds or reads his comment section 😂
If they ever add more demon difficulties, or difficulties in general, ill be so upset, the people good enough to beat extremes know the difference, also, 2:47 i say this all the time in comments and stuff and get clowned on for it lol
I wouldnt like to see new difficulties, however after seeing evw’s idea i actually love it, i would love to see this 1-30 rating system implemented in the game
There is a mod called "Demons in between" that looks very similar to what you suggested, I hope Rob considers this 🙏
Meh, the osu! star rating system doesn't account for special mapping styles like "tech" maps with crazy sliders & patterns. It's the same kind of thing in GD when you compare skill-based ship/wave sections to memory cube/robot sections. It's always going to be easier or harder depending on an individual's skillset. Though I agree having some sort of numbered difficulty rating system would be great to give a general idea of the difficulty of levels with the same rating. I just doubt RobTop would ever be willing to code something like this in a reasonable amount of time, considering 1 RobTop week = 2 human years.
We should be able to do the same but with the rarity of the levels like rating it rate, featured, epic, legendary and mythic because so many levels got robbed just because RobTob decided to.
But thats what determines how many creator points a certain level is worth
@@filispeed_0111 yeah but it’s kinda similar when rob has the tendency to rerate a level for it’s stars difficulty. Without forgetting that he told us it the NCS gauntlet contest that some level will get a rerate of their rarity so I don’t why we couldn’t change rarity ourselves.
@@wellbesnapjb5957 Im not sure if rerating also changes the creator points counter, probably not. I think thats fair, the initial rarity could be what gives the creator points and then we decide if its really worth that rarity.
@@filispeed_0111 yeah I don’t know either, but so many creators updates their levels and it so sad that sometime we get mid levels that just transforms into masterpieces while their level are still rated only epic or feature when they could deserve more (for exemple Anamnesis and Hush)
every level would be mythic
5:59 I knew that my meme inspired you to make this video 😃
Another issue is that certain levels are much easier or harder for certain players depending on their skillset. This is definitely the case in classic levels, but it’s especially prevalent in platformers. I’ve been working for months to try to beat every single platformer that isn’t extreme demon, and the last level I have left is “Ritual of Calamity” a recreation of the Brimstone Witch fight from Terraria Calamity. Many people, including myself, find it harder than most platformer extreme demons, but lots of the people who play it are terraria players that understandably beat it pretty easily and rate it medium/hard demon, resulting in a final rating of insane demon.
you have the problem flipped dude. The issue is platformer levels having overrated difficulties compared to classic ones. Not this. Massive shame you are also part of this insane delusion
Problem is most plat extremes are equivalent classic hard demons anyway. I still don't like platformer
@@wakaba-v5u exactly that yeah! So glad some people get it 🐢
love this style of video, and I think you articulated your point very well
Maybe instead of having a million extreme demon categories, rob top could make more demon difficulty’s above extreme like the grandpa demon mod
I really like the gd demon ladder, it's helped me a ton
Honestly, I feel like more specificity would just lead to more inaccuracy. Even with only the 5 ratings, some levels are are pretty inaccurate by 1 or even 2 levels, for example, Shiver and The Nightmare shouldn’t even be demons at all.
I would only add new difficulties to the extreme demons, because is there where difficulty has been taken to extreme, so the hardest level now is far away from the hardest levels years ago.
Ok the subdivision idea is so good
Deadocked is a MEDIUM demon to me
its a very low-end medium demon
high easy demon.
It's an easy demon , and for me toe 2 is harder than deadlocked idk why , maybe cuz I play on mobile , and clubstep is ez af
@@SterbopBro same
It would be medium demon if it was an online level but it’s easy demon
Great idea this would be nice for beginners to see what levels to play
Maybe robtop should just add more difficulties
my idea is that just like in osu gd could calculate levels difficulty in terms of how wide are the spaces where you can click in each input (could be calculated by using that mod that shows from where to where you can click and not die with trajectory). that would make rating way more objective. but here comes problem with memory levels.
i know its hard to manage, but its definitely possible, its just the matter of robtop willing to improve his game and actually care about players which is debatable with how he is acting about cbf. good executable idea, but probably will never be in the game
Baaaad idea
Think about it, if people were given a slider option to vote for difficulty, take into consideration the trolls who would rate things like Bloodlust or Abyss of Darkness as easy demons just to screw up the rating.
Slider ratings go off the average/median, so if 20 people vote, and 10 say it’s easy while 10 say it’s hard, it’ll average it out and put it as medium. Averaging is solid but there has to be a way to weed out the trolls who will inevitably break the rating just to screw with people
Your argument is flawed because people could just troll right now with the current system, and yet it works because people giving real ratings heavily outweigh the trolls. They are both rating systems with the same base concept, the one he suggests is just more detailed although I do have some problems with it
@@usualkhaos2576 be that as it may, a rating system like this is very flawed.
Shiver, an easy demon, 500 people vote, 250 say it’s a 0.1, and 500 say it’s 0.2, where will it fall? 250 people won’t like the rating. This really kinda doesn’t work well.
A better alternative would be to introduce a sort of “inbetween,” like a demon isn’t exactly medium but it’s not HARD, so it would fit into the inbetween.
Overall I kinda don’t get why this is even a problem, there’s ALWAYS gonna be issues with a community voting and rating, so regardless of what’s done it won’t fix anything if anyone can rate
Bro it doesn't auto change it is the average of others votes
@@Zerathina ok that makes way more sense, but I think you still gotta understand the importance of community rating. There are not many things in-game that regular people can decide, so being able to decide demons has always been pretty cool to everyone.
If 0.1 gets 250 votes, and 0.2 gets 500 for an easy, then it should just be the average like it should be (about .17, where people can vote up to one decimal place but the result gives a two decimal number) this helps show a culmination of player opinions pretty well so I don’t think people would get mad from a rating that has a .07 difference from their own rating. Similar to if someone right now rates something a medium demon but most other people rate it an easy demon, they would just have to deal with it and if they throw a fit over something like that then oh well.
My biggest problem is with higher levels like extreme demons for evw’s rating system. Since the overwhelming majority would add their precise opinion without ever trying or beating the level, the “points” just wouldn’t be accurate. I think what would be better is if we keep the same system (which is pretty simple so there is not really an issue with opinions on ratings), but maybe you can give it a detailed rating upon completion or something along the lines of that.
@@KrazyStupo I never said it auto-changes?
Here’s a tip- don’t put words in peoples mouths
Like these type of info videos as well!
The thing is trolls do exist. And it’s a bit hard to gauge the difficulty of a level for some people. maybe?
Yeah rob should make it so that only people who have got for example 50% on the level could rate the difficulty and also that the harder the demon the more stars it would give. Because as he said the difficulty gap between some demons is absolutely insane
@@ScabberJazzThat would also lead to the issue of extremely skilled people severely underrating the difficulties of levels below their skillsets, eg, someone like Wpopoff can find a very hard insane demon just as easy as a medium demon.
@@FBI-xu so you’re saying that top players just don’t know what they’re doing?
@@ScabberJazz Yep
To be honest i completely agree a lot of levels do seem to have a large gap and some demons being easier then lower rated demons
I feel even if we were to perfect the rating system, trolls would butcher the ratings. It’s a lose/lose situation
Nah rob could make it so only people who have got a certain percentage on the level for example 50% could rate it
I mean there could still be trolls though...
it didn't happen to the current difficulties so it probably wouldn't happen to this.
That's wrong, the same argument was used when the different difficulties categories were added for the demons. Trolls are not as relevant when rating, dw.
12:10 theres "Demons in Between" mode exactly for that and it works with gddl too.
Fr
I know there isn’t a harder demon and a Extreme rating, if you think about it a insane demon is a harder demon while extreme demon is a insane demon in reality.
how is tidal wave an insane demon
"therefore, silent clubstep is an insane demon"
what does comment mean 😭
what is this supposed to mean
@@EMLethsupposed to be so the difficulties match up with non demon difficulties (harder and insane)
I think this could be modified a bit, but its a good idea. I think something a long the lines of what you made should be added in 2.21, or 2.3.
I'm just happy that we have free levels :)
There should be a rating called free level
same
Auto
What does that even mean
@@EimysGD the nightmare
@@ScabberJazz huh
3:36 osu!mania player here, osu!'s star rating has the exact same problem, at least in mania. some maps like Worldwide Choppers which is 5 stars is as hard as some 6.5-6.7 star maps. a more insane example is the map Angel Echo L'appel du vide-, recently ranked, and is one of the hardest ranked maps in osu!mania 4 key, it is only 6.65 stars. now the map Fallen Symphony, widely regarded as a "farm map" [meaning the star rating is higher than the skill needed], is 8.45 stars [however it plays more like a 7 star]. Most players will agree that Angel Echo L'appel du vide- is SIGNFICANTLY harder than Fallen Symphony
edit: one last example, another map that is deceptively difficult is The Death Of God's Will [the ultrakill song] mapped by 'randomeLoL'. the star rating is a mere 5 stars, but the map much, much harder. However, it is not as bad as Angel Echo L'appel du vide-
Basically any map pack/1.9 era easy demon is equivalent to a modern hard demon.
0:37 Well, you gotta understand, older demon levels didn’t have an established rating system back then, and the skill ceiling was so low compared to today, so judging older demons on how easy they are is not very fair tbh. Js my opinion tho
Robtop take notes!!!
i would like to be able to see a bar graph of how many people voted for each difficulty rating - both for stars and for demons.
for instance, an easy demon might have 30% 8star votes, 40% 9star votes, and 30% 10star votes, and 90% of the demon subcategory votes could be easy. if opinions are more split, this would represent that
Some new people dont even know demons weren't a thing
A couple ideas:
-easy demons should be able to be demoted if they're deemed not hard enough, I think it's a little ridiculous that there are easy demons that are easier than clutterfunk
-especially with demon levels, I think you should only be able to vote on the difficulty if you've beaten it in-game (or maybe you would be able to rate the difficulty as normal without beating it, but you'd only get access to the numbered tier voting system after you beat it)
-newly rated demons should have a unique icon that indicates there aren't enough votes to determine their true difficulty yet
8:06
Sidestep is NOT in the map packs 💀
Ik
Eric probably meant to say "in the gauntlets"...
@@TestSubjectBlue but je didn't say that 😂
@@DaadirHusseinRoorowHumans make mistakes while spekaing
I like the idea of changing some details in the demon faces, it would be simple for people to understand
The thing is not about 9 star rated as easy demon but the thing is that THE EPIC LEVEL THAT WORTHY OF MYTHIC HAVE NOT GOT THEIR MYTHIC RATING LIKE "CHANGE OF SCENE"
Change of Scene was made in 2.1 and it seems that robtop wouldn’t change their ratings
@@nixonjcm ik BUT IT IS WORTH MYTHIC
@@RupaAnand-st2xg Well it will be mythic for you ig
@RupaAnand-st2xg nah it should be legendary
I think this is a good rate system that needs to be implemented for many reasons. There are tons of very easy demons then some very hard easy demons and this can help new players or existing to start harder levels at a good pace.
Dont Say "First" Kids
First
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Second
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i feel like it should correlate to the stars it gives you because shiver and tidal wave are worth the same amount.
you should also be able to change your vote for the purpose of difficulty inflation as eventually, a level like B will become an easy demon.
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Love this idea. Definitely need something like this in the game
My man, we didn’t need a video about this…
Speak for yourself bruh
Bro thinks the world revolves around him
the funny thing is, we absolutely did. this is a problem that really needs to be talked about wayy more bc its actually a problem not only for veterans but for many casuals and beginners as well...
We literally needed. There's literally 9 stars being easy demons while some easy demons being 9 stars or medium demons. You can compare an average easy demon to a GDDP demon levels. Or what was shown in the video. It would help players know what demon they want to aim for, you could beat the nightmare but not do one of the hardest easy demons when Infact their corresponding difficulty shows that they are no different in difficulty. You should realize that.
I say this because we have enough vids, it’s a known issue.
@@TeenagerInBlack819 Breaking News Guys! Its been proven that just because conversations on a topic already exist it definitely guarantees that not a single another one with a unique and nuanced perspective is allowed! Lets stop talking about all the problems in the world that have already been talked about a lot. That is DEFINITELY how any issue has been solved throughout world history!
Absolutely Sensational ^_^
I've completed an Extreme (Hexagonestestestest) in 21 attempts, and the only extreme I've completed before this one is Retention. So yes, there's a big issue with demon rating
In addition I think you should only be able to rate the level after you've beaten it or done it in practice so people aren't as likely to troll rate, like when Cataclysm was rerated to insane demon several years ago (forgot what for but for some reason it made everyone troll rate the level).
I think another easy way to make the demon rates more accurate would be to make a demon give you more stars depending on how hard the community decides it is. People can vote on the amount of stars. Either way it’s kinda funny that right now TOE 2 gives you more starts than levels like slaughterhouse
i feel like itd also be cool if you could press the numbers on the slider to show other levels in that exact difficulty
13:08 "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" Got Me 😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
A possible solution would be for Rob to implement a system that calculates the average number of attempts it takes for people who have beaten the level to beat it (for their first time). This is less subjective than the slider and I would assume it would be more accurate than a slider but it wouldn't change the actual rating but (for example assume the level was rated as an easy demon) serve as a way for people to see whether it is an easier or more difficult easy demon.
Another Idea that comes from the community is putting like adjective descriptions in front of the tier, for example an easy insane demon, or a remorseless extreme demon. (comes from the insane demon spreadsheet and non-listworthy extreme demon sheet)
Another approach could be to use average attempt total before first completion (ignoring extreme outliers), and ranking the demons based on certain thresholds.
You wouldn't even have to get rid of the current system, you could simply supplement it with this data. It would certainly be a huge help to me personally.
To be fair you have less attempts on longer levels
@5:35 this level is an easy demon if you were wondering
The top 75 demons should be labelled as such in game
I was wishing to see the jtoh rate system in the video but I think it should also be considered with it's range from (baseline being absolute easiest and peak being the top of it)
I feel like this is the most elegant way to change the difficulty rating without completely changing how ratings work in game. I think the community average idea should be kept in place as well.
1 thing the game can improve and that is adding a sub difficulty like jtoh ones ex bottom easy demon, low easy demon, high easy demon and peak easy demon
I would say something like "oh, well the demons in between mod fixes that" but the problem with that is that it's a mod. Not everyone uses, or even has access to mods so I don't think it's really fair to say that one fixes it. That's why it should be implemented in the base game.
Good idea, but instead of up to 30 just keep it as level 5 for max difficulty for each demon rating. The placement can be under the demon rating in a smaller print
yeah osu difficulty is between 0-8 in the meantime top players casually playing 11 stars maps, but it is a really good way to rate maps / levels 3:42
i love your idea, rob can implement that for all ratings
The slider solution could be really cool to have in game, I feel like people would have to have beaten it to vote on the difficulties so that more casual players wouldn’t play 10 seconds of a hard demon and vote it 30
I feel like if a system like that was added a it would need a lot of popular levels to initially have agreed upon numbers for people to reference, then everyone would eventually get used to oh this is harder than this but easier than this and come up with pretty accurate numbers
personally i think that very easy demons should simply be moved down to insane, then bunch the top 100 levels in extreme and everything else can get shuffled down in a domino affect from that point on.
This is a great idea, robtop should add this in the next update that will hopefully relese before the year 2030
I'd make the visual difficulty rating something that would just change the color of the eyes to the same order as how the demons are already sorted. For example, an easy insane demon would have blue eyes, a medium insane demon would have green eyes, and a hard insane demon would have orange eyes.
if stuff gets too hard, the level tiers could always be extended
also to make sure that it's not like ppl are trolling, your voting power would be proportional to your progress in the level and if your vote is way too much off from what everyone else says (like +10 tiers), it's invalidated or less significant
That's a good idea like gddl! Also, I hope all hardest non-demon levels can be voted demon difficulty so they can be changed to demon.
İn geode there is a mod called "demons between" i suggest that mod add groups of demons like free demon, mild demon, bizarre demon…
It was even worse before 2.1 when there was only demons and nothing else. Things like The Nightmare and Sonic Wave were the same difficulty.