Hammond Organ Will Not Start
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Get that beautiful Hammond Organ started and running again! overview of possible problems that cause the Tone Wheel to bind or stick and prevent it from starting. Oiling tips and HOW TO get it going WITHOUT TAKING IT APART. stop! don't take it apart unless you're absolutely sure you must.
I just got my M3 A1 resurrected and I have you and your fine video presentation to thank for it. My Hammond has been inactive for a couple of decades. Couldn't find a service person and was contemplating trying to sell it until I found out that the M3 isn't the hottest seller. So, found your video online, ordered some Hammond oil and filled the cups. Your advice of being patient kept me going! Tried starting it for a month. When that failed, took the cover off today and followed your instructions freeing up the motors. IT SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL!!! From the bottom of my heart thank you again!
well that sounds GREAT! so happy the video helped. enjoy your playing.
I have had a relatively "simple" problem recently on my X-77 (still working on it), that is likely ONLY a lubrication problem. I am signed up with "Hammond Zone" (have been for many many years ....just because) ....so I get automatic emails any time someone creates a message looking for help with a Hammond problem. I sent out a message recently, documenting my problem with what I had finally identified as a bearing or bearings in one specific area. I got a relatively quick response from one chap who has been a regular contributor on "Hammond Zone", as a known "Hammond-Trained" technician ...who provides solutions to literally any problem on almost any older Hammond model. His response was very information and spot on to what I thought was needed and how to proceed.
As "RUclips" is a fantastic resource for information on literally everything, I also did a lot of research here as well. I have also found a LOT OF MISINFORMATION on RUclips as well as some following responses from others on "Hammond Zone". This RUclips video also identifies this issue as this person states starting around the 0:55 mark about "talking to a lot of people" who had different ideas of what needed to be done .....and here begins a very serious problem. There are lot of people who really do think they are "experts" for some reason ....and sure, they might have done something in the past to fix something and it worked, but this does NOT necessarily mean they are the "experts" they claim to be ....and people with a problem, who really do need help, need to be aware of this.
One classic example that surfaced as I was looking for information, is the tone wheel generator LUBRICATION that should be used. It is indeed "Hammond Tone Wheel Generator Oil" that should be used. Does anyone really know the exact specifications for this lubrication? As it turns out, no one has the specifications. It has to be understood that the lube oil is in fact NOT a Hammond product. Hammond has never made this product. Hammond has spec'd out what is needed for this organ application and then sourced a manufacturer of lubricants to make/blend it. I also point out that Hammond, the company, has not existed for many years, so it is possibly one person who has been involved with Hammond, many years ago, who knows the sourcing of this oil, from somewhere, perhaps a refinery or oil distributor, and has had the specific oil "packaged" as "Hammond Tone Wheel Generator Oil" in a volume, and sells it accordingly ...which is absolutely fine ....but once again, no one publicly knows the specifications ....and herein surfaces the problem. SOMEONE in "Hammond Zone" has stated " PURE TURBINE OIL" can be substituted ...and nothing else to qualify the statement .....and then ....unfortunately .....people "believe" this to be correct without exception!!!
I came across another "RUclips" video on this Hammond lubrication topic. The presenter shows the original tube of Hammond oil, which is empty, and then shows a different container with lubrication oil in it. It is a completely different container and labelled "ZOOM SPOUT". He then spends time explaining this container, which originally was a "Turbine Lubrication" product! He then explains he used up the original oil and was only using the container because it had a very convenient "spout extension" built in and this could easily reach the Hammond oiling funnels. He then showed that he had clearly "re-labelled" the contents in the container to be "HAMMOND ORGAN TONE WHEEL GENERATOR OIL". After this lengthy explanation, the author of this video then EMPHATICALLY stated "DO NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE BUT HAMMOND TONE WHEEL GENERATOR OIL", followed by "DO NOT USE TURBINE OIL ON A HAMMOND ORGAN"!!!! So this guy says do NOT use turbine oil and the paragraph above the guy says turbine oil is recommended as a substitute. What "qualifications" do either of these people have? It makes total sense to use ONLY the oil "designed and sold" for the application ....but IS turbine oil "PROVEN TO BE A SUBSTITUTE"??? No one offers any supporting information as to whether there is in fact a substitute lubrication that will do the job.
The point of this comment is DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE SAY!!! YOU NEED TO DO A FAIR BIT OF HOMEWORK TO TRY TO DETERMINE WHAT ANYONE SAYS IS IN FACT CORRECT. Sadly, there are a lot of arrogant hot-heads who just want sound like they know something when if fact they might know something, but have no clue whether it is correct or not.
I could go on and explain other bits of information to support my information, but enough is enough. Who am I? I am a retired manufacturing engineer with an expanded specialty of Quality Assurance and Quality Control. If I don't know something, I investigate and research through qualified/certified sources ....and I have yet to find the specifications on "Hammond Tonewheel Generator Oil". Someone is keeping this information secret (unpublished" ...for very obvious reasons.
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I just picked up an M3 yesterday and I think I may be in the same boat as you! Oiled it yesterday but this video was super helpful in looking at the run motor shaft and wheel. Thanks for this!!!
Nice video...in summary things to check...START motor, tone generator, and RUN motor are all turning freely in that order. The 4th thing to check is the vibrato scanner on the very left end. If chorus/vibrator not working, need to carefully remove round end cap attached w/ 2 screws and turn the scanner flywheel with your finger...being very carefully not to disturb anything else. Work it until it turns freely when the TG is turning.
I recently have been working on my 1960 M3 after taking the organ out of storage after 20 years. This had the front cover still on it so the insides are very clean. Tube checked and replaced as needed amp tubes. Hammond oil to left cup for scanner and motor, both middle and right cups had three doses of filling cup, that was Friday night. Saturday checked and had some squealing bearings so I left it alone. Sunday night so two days later: tonight, I realized that some heat might get the oil to flow better. After ten minutes of going up and down the generator on the bottom side slowly back and forth, I started the organ and had NO SQUEEALING!! When I shut down the generator it ran for 16 seconds until it stopped. I imagine this might be rare? but if your organ is squealing give it some loving heat! Johnne in Clallam Bay, WA.
I recently have been working on my 1960 M3 after taking the organ out of storage after 20 years. This had the front cover still on it so the insides are very clean. Tube checked and replaced as needed amp tubes. Hammond oil to left cup for scanner and motor, both middle and right cups had three doses of filling cup, that was Friday night. Saturday checked and had some squealing bearings so I left it alone. Sunday night so two days later: tonight, I realized that some heat might get the oil to flow better. After ten minutes of going up and down the generator on the bottom side slowly back and forth, I started the organ and had NO SQUEEALING!! When I shut down the generator it ran for 16 seconds until it stopped. I imagine this might be rare? but if your organ is squealing give it some loving heat! Johnne in Clallam Bay, WA.
I bought an M162. It hadn't been turned on in 4 years. I looked into the back of the organ and seen a gear that wasn't sliding into the proper place to move the tonewheel generator. I pushed the *pin (that thing he pushed in, in the video) Then the organ powered on. I heavily oiled the organ, but it took a week for it to work/engage on its own without me having to help it. However, after about the second week, it would take about 4-5 seconds to engage. Within a month, it engaged instantly just like any properly maintained organ:-)
perfect! I've heard stories of people waiting a month or so for the oil to work in and then.... just like new.
Many thanks for this! 1958 M3 took only 2 days to soak before starting and running as described. Oiling thread to the run motor was gone (and will be replaced) but WD40 & massage did the trick!
I've read a lot of the comments and my problem as far as I can diagnose it is the main shaft on the run-motor side can only be wiggled by hand about ten degrees or less and it turns the tone-wheels so I think there may be something that caused it to bind. Symptom #2 on the start-motor end, is the gears that the motor is supposed to turn to get the shaft up to speed are very stiff and I can move them hardly with a thumb or finger but no way can the start-motor make them go. That's where I'm at. I don't know what the scanner is, but I will look it up and find out.
Great video. Just oiled my 1970 T-200. It’s working great, however I can not find that 3rd oiling point with the sponge. Any suggestions on this model would be helpful. 🎶
sorry so long to respond. if starter not engaging, be careful! very first thing is to confirm power is getting to the starter. does it make any noise at all when you engage the start button? if so, you know power is there. if not, talk with someone more skilled than i with electronics about how to confirm power to starter. probably a voltage meter, etc. if no power, check the primary power lines from the plug going into/thru the organ. these come out of the main amp and lead to the preamp. this lines corroded and become brittle. replace these. if you do have good power, check the shaft that the starter sits on. it should move in and out (left to right) FREELY. if it won't move in (left) when you push on it. try oiling the shaft and push it in a bit more. if this shaft is already free, it's probably a power problem. this is best i can tell ya.
My organ hasn’t been oiled since 1970s and it still plays good
Have a CV that was given to me … I used chrysler synthetic transmission fluid…. Start and run were seized and so with the tone wheels…. You cannot hear this thing start up or run. Whisper quiet
It just told me about oil.... I have no power at all
Hi Singh Jobim. Thank you for your good information. I was able to buy the Hammond oil and my Hammond M103 is now working fine. Thank you for your reply and post. This old organ sounds great thanks to you. Thank you again..
Thanks! Couldn't get my B3 to start! I am missing the same oil wick! I snuck some oil on the run motor shaft, moved it back and forth a few times, and lo and behold she started! :)
i'm a little surprised at how many of the Hammonds appear to have the same problem and how many are tossed to scrap for this simple issue. enjoy and glad the video helped.
I got this m3 running. Shaft is free fast and quiet. Sweet. Sounds cool. Thank you so much! Peace!
you are welcome. glad it's working.
I just got a Hammond M102. Oiled it. It sounded like a dying cat. Start Switch may be bad (it won’t stay on-maybe it’s not supposed to as I could hold it on and soon enough when it briefly worked, it would continue to run without holding down the switch)but I initially could get sound and it quieted down. I thought it worked…..great but just as soon as it was quiet and ran smoothly, it stops again. I put the oil in the reservoirs just like you said, and it sounded great, both levels of reverbs(somewhat quiet when disengaged but that could be bad filter caps or faulty tube. The problem seems to be mechanical. I can hear it trying to engage but just won’t turn over again for a lack of a better word. I understood the reservoirs and the cotton wick, even the small spindle on the small motor but I think I may have missed where you had recommended. It almost has a sound near that canister in the upper right hand(from the back). Both shafts move freely. When it was running, it would make the same noise as yours made upon starting up-that mechanical clanking wheezing sound but then it ran so quietly. Maybe I need to apply more oil. I haven’t added more and maybe it was enough but it pulled it to all the needy parts and seized up again.
maybe more oil, MAYBE. the key here is PATIENCE. it can take a few months sometimes. probably don't want to oil anything directly other than if that wheel won't slide freely from side to side, but just enough to free it up. too much oil is just as bad a problem as too little. do not overfill the cups. the visible sponge down on the end in the cup should be wet, with no visible oil in the cup. the ones on top of the tone wheel generator will NOT hold oil. it all runs down inside. a few drops more in each of those might help the process, but not too much. and above all else, WAIT. try it each day and see if it gets better over time. if not, may be mechanical problem.
@@clickenkeys560 it comes and goes. Thankfully, I have a 55’ Lowery LS Holiday as a back up. I came upon them both with a few months of one another. So different. The Lowery was free….88 tubes in all and adjustable on each key. The Hammond has really hated the cold. It may have to wait till next year. What a beast. I would love to hook up some pedal effects and get some really far out sounds. I will pull back cardboard so I can see if there is a bunch of dust. Do a proper cleanse at some point. I will be super careful.
This is exactly the problem my C2 has every now and then. I've been told many times never overoil your Hammond otherwise the dog is oiled as well, but maybe I was a bit too thrifty with it :) Thanks for that great video!!
I also use Hammond-oil for the rotating horns of my Leslie-cabinet
sometimes ya just have to wait, let it sit for some days... me too on the Leslie/hammond oil. works great.
So interesting.. all the Hammond organ needed is oil.. my Lawd
"some time" can be 2-3weeks in bad cases. i have never seen one which could not be brought back.the oil will wick by capillary action and gravity.you cannot speed this up.while you wait get a part time job to payfor your leslie.
Thank you for this very clear and concise video
Ii had to put oil in it and it work but it sounds weak when you play it....plus a few bulbs and other things will have to be fixed by this month because some things in it smell a little bunt out or getting there......this just my update.
You hear more of the bass instead of the notes and chords......but a slow progress is still being made ontrying to maintain and fix it.
How do u clean this out
Usually...or normally turning on the organ takes 8 to 10 seconds....I turned ours on and starts....but it is like a dim light bulb....but it may need lubrication...it work last Sunday.....
This Sunday nothing happened.
When I turned it on ...the tone generator sounded weak.
what if the oil tray on the left gets over filled? something is keeping mine from engaging at start up. Start doesn't spin anything, and Run just kicks the sprocket out, so it doesn't engage the drive shaft. We had a rough transport, and spilled oil, and I probably over filled that cup last year. Looks like there could be oil in the vibrato scanner. Still waiting for new oil to find it's way into the tone generator. Also hearing a rougher grind when engaging the run switch. She was perfect when she went into storage a year ago. Somehow I messed it up...
great vid thanks. Haven't worked on one in a while...the 'sponge' and oiling wicks are laying outside..apparently seized and got pulled out as motor tried to start?
Good video. Excellent information
Hollo guys, Organ setting was deleted all of a sudden its like it did a Factory Reset, anyone there experience the same issue? Or anyone can give a tip what might be the possible cause? Thank you.
I've never tried Marvel Mystery Oil in a frozen Hammond generator before, but wonder if putting in a few drops would help loosen it up faster. It's basically kerosene with a detergent that you add to your car's oil and fuel tank to improve the overall performance. Seems like it would dissolve gummed up oil and help lubricate bearings etc. Just a thought.
+Vinnie Corbit i would say don't risk it! only Hammond oil... specifically design not to attract dust. maybe sewing machine oil but i don't know. usually it's not a case of sticky old oil, hammond oil does not gum up. it's usually just dry, very dry.
WHERE were you planning on putting this strange oil? If the answer was "into the oiling funnels" ...then you very likely destroy the organ ....and I am NOT kidding when I say that. If you add anything other than the correct oil .....and you don't know EXACTLY what the stuff is that you are adding ....then you will be OK with sending the organ to the junk yard.
IF HOWEVER ....you were considering putting this "stuff" directly on the bearings ....THEN ...this might be OK to accelerate freeing up bearings. AND THEN (at the same time) add the PROPER OIL ONLY to the oil funnels ....and expect to add a fair bit ....more than what you think is needed, several times ....over the course of two or three weeks, and try to SEE the condition of the WICKING MATERIAL IN THE OIL GALLERY/TROUGH.
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@taxicamel I actually tried it as an experiment 6 years ago and it wasn't a good idea. Ran worse. So, I dried up as much of the oil in the troughs as possible and oiled it with just oil and it ran fine. Still runs to this day. Don't do it kids!
Still trying to get mine going its turning more and more but still won't take over once I go to run switch although it's spinning longer and longer as I oil, I have now put almost 2 full bottles of Hammond organ Oil in
I’m no expert, in fact, I’m here because I have an M3 I can’t going, but have read a few things. When you turn on the run motor without powering the start switch, you should feel some resistance if you try to turn the shaft. If you don’t, there could be a problem with the run motor. Me? My flywheel doesn’t move freely, so I’m searching ideas to free it up.
Mr. Peterson, M111 Organ light comes on. Absolutely no sound. Was told it had been sitting for a couple of years without turning it on. Probably bone dry. Could no oil be the issue or other problem? Shouldn't I at least hear some sort of sound?
could be completely locked up. add some oil and WAIT. try turning it on once a day. if it doesn't start, leave it alone and come back tomorrow. wait, wait, wait. if you put about two fills per oil cup first day, then wait. don't over oil. it takes a LONG time for the oil to wick it's way down. after at least two weeks, if it's still not moving, try helping it along by moving it manually by hand, JUST A BIT and don't push it too hard. it should free up, if not, you may have other problems.
I've heard them screech and scream when they first free up. don't run it if it's doing that. just get it free. then, guess what.... WAIT some more.
Wow! thnx for this video. I had my organ n storage for 2 yrs. it will not turn on. I've lubricated every place as u described and still nothing.im going to wait an try once a day for the next 2 days.if it still doesn't turn on. id like to know the next step.Im getting no movement from starter or run buttons.
+jgyrwa sorry so long to respond. i've seen and heard about these Hammonds taking as long as a month for the oil to work its way into where it needs to go. just oil it once as described and then try it ever two days or so. patience. it may start turning and be very noisy... that's fine. it will go away. if it still does not turn after a few weeks check the fly wheel on the left to be sure it moves left to rigth. if it's free and loose and still won't turn after a few weeks, it's probably something else that's the problem.
hello, i know this clip is old, but is there any immediate (before turning on post 10 years) with electronics? i.e. can caps or typical danger factors with having no fuse etc???
yes, all of the above! basic things to check: power cord, power cord INSIDE the organ, etc. check for wires dry rotting and/or falling apart, etc. if the caps are bad you will know once it comes on: hums, hiss, etc. if ten years, then oil it first, good two fills per each little cup above the generator, good fill at the left end by the wheel, enough to get the entire sponge wet. then WAIT!!! don't turn it on. give the oil at least a week or two to work it's way down to where it needs to be. it works by wicking action, not gravity, so it takes a while. after 1 week, i say oil it all again, NOT TOO MUCH. and wait another week. then start turn it on. it there's no smoke and no fire, you should be good electrically. it may not turn yet... but wait longer. try it every few days, if there's nothing else wrong, it WILL free up eventually. again, patience is the key.
Thank you so much 🙏🏽
My M3 , all spins freely by hand. I select and hold the start switch , it turns, I wait 10-15 seconds, release and immediately hit the run switch, run motor does nothing (amp tubes do come on with the run switch). How else can I verify the run motor is ok?
Start the organ correctly. Don't release start before you switch on the run.
VERY GOOOOD
Hello , i just purchased a cv console with a leslie 222, long story about yrying to start it but my question is when you hold the start button, does the tg have to get to a specific speed before the run motor can kick in? Ive let the oil try to do its thing for a couple weeks now bit every time I try starting, when i hit the run after I think the tg is up to speed, it just dies, the run motor does nothing and the tg just stops? Any tips or help will be appreciated. I'm doing everything I can to prevent needing to pull out the entire tone generator, thanks in advance
That is the same problem that I'm having with my A100. It seems like the start motor is not turning the main shaft of the tone generator. When I engage the Start switch the small motor gear engages with the larger gear on the main shaft of the TG and spins but it is like it is free spinning on the shaft rather than trying to turn it. Anyone have any information how that larger gear is supposed to actually lock onto the TG shaft to turn it?
@@voncolborn9437 yes I had the same problem my tone generator was so dry of oil that the start motor gear that meets up with the gear on the main drive shaft would not able to turn the shaft because it was so dried with oil. I'm to the point now where everything is spinning freely on mine but when I turn on my run switch everything Fizzles out I believe my run motor is bad. For your situation I would just make sure you oral it and let the oil work its way in there it could take weeks
Wow! Didn't know they spun THAT fast.
Yep they do!
smokin fast! should continue to spin with almost no resistance after turning off as well.
I have a guy living near me giving away a Hammond Aurora model. I’m debating about taking it because it doesn’t work and I have no idea what it would cost to fix.... any advice?
pretty sure that organ is solid state electronics (circuit boards) and not the mechanical type we're talking about in this video. not a great Hammond model to begin with either. came out after their hayday and when they were on the decline.
its day 2 and my starter will not engage,which prohibits the tone generator from spinning. what else could it be?
+jgyrwa i know it's been quite a while, but were you able to figure it out and get the starter to engage? is the organ working now? just curious
Yes I was. I placed it back into storage afterwards since i started my own business.I dint have the time now to practice or play.Yet, i will never sale it though. She is my baby.
I quit rock and roll 20yrs ago but have been trying to keep my b3 running and have been trying to start it up at least every 6mo or so. Just tried it today, the start motor engages but after 2-3 seconds i'm hearing a bad noise, turned on the run motor but it can't seem to keep the tone gen running. ... as soon as i release the start motor everything just comes to a halt. Tone gen seems to turn freely but the nasty grinding/squealing noise starts just after hitting the start motor. The sound seems to be coming from the left side near the run motor. I oiled everything a few days ago but can't seem to get it started. Ideas?
dan
+Susie Curtis Hello Susie... sounds like it could be one of two things: 1. check that oil tray on the left side above the run motor. that tray should have a cotton oil wick running out a brass tube/port on the right side of the tray. my wick was missing! the wick on the left side of the tray lubricates the vibrato scanner and that wick is usually fine. it's the one on the right that is key. it should run down to the big fly wheel (3:00 minutes in the video above). if that wick is missing that fly wheel is DRY. if so, try to put some oil directly on the shaft on either side of the wheel. NOT MUCH, just one or two drop on each side. let it sit over night at least. you can use a syringe if needed to get the oil in there. me, i just got the tube as close as i could and let it drip. 2. if above point is not your issue (also, if the wick is there, make sure the pad in the tray is DAMP only. if the tray is full of oil, that is bad, try to suck it out with a syringe or turkey baster. so, #2 is oil is okay.... could be the run motor itself is bad. I don't know if those can be oiled. i would guess it can be taken apart and rebuilt but that's beyond my experience level.
@@clickenkeys560 I was just down there in the garage oiling my M-3. One problem to solve with not spilling anywhere except where you need it is transfer it to a ZOOM-SPOUT bottle. I thought about it and then decided to skip that step and stuck a WD-40 red spray-tube in the little hole of the Hammond oil bottle. The stem/tube was a little smaller than the aperture so I wrapped the base of the tube with some blue painters' tape to make it fit snug. Worked for me. Now I have to figure why the gears the starter-motor turns against are very,VERY stiff. The maim shaft on the run motor side turns about 10 degrees and does cause movements in all the tone-wheels. It feels bound up. That's as far as I got with my new 1957 one-family owned M-3. It's all very clean looking, but no go with the TG!
thanks!!
How many drops of oil if its been sitting for 10 years? (My church's has been in storage for 10 or 11 years)
William Summerville
My BV sat up for 20+ years unused and oiled. I refilled the cups twice so it would have enough oil to all dry places. waited two days and started manually working the fly wheel.Once it was moving freely I tried starting it and it turned on.....lots of squeaking. Day four no squeakying at all.
Thank you Johnathan Patrick . I will definitely try that with mine. We have an a105 so its similar. Thanks you so much again.
💯💯 💯
What kind of oil should I use, Is 3 in one ok or what should I use
Thanks
srfeev NO ! Hammond oil is available online. A 4 oz. bottle is a lifetime supply. Other oils can gum up the parts, resulting in expensive repairs
Never use 3 in 1. A good sewing machine was recommended but I am skeptical.
NEVER 3 IN 1 OIL.
Hammond organ oil only.
If you really can't find Hammond organ oil, you can still use Singer sewing machine oil. But nothing else!