The bigger problem for the Leafs now is that other teams have seen Matthews and Marner how they play in the playoffs. Their value has gone down, neither of them are worth 10 million plus a year.
Whatever they're worth if you blow this up it'll be 10 years of crap hockey, missing the playoffs etc before anything happens. Just like AA with the Jays, they dumped him now he's turned the Braves into a powerhouse. Trade the fab 4 for what you can get and they will be amazing wherever they land. Many, many teams would love to have our 'problems' these emotional reactions will only make it worse. Fix the defense, not just the goaltenders, cut the shot to under 20 per game and things will be better.
Barring some miraculous series come-back and win, expect to see Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe all fired once the Leafs are eliminated by the Panthers. Expect to also see several players currently on the Leaf roster not be back next season.
This is on the core 4 and Keefe. Dubas brought in Ror, Noel Acciari, Sam Lafferty, Jake McCabe. All 4 are tough as nails. Fire Shanny fire keefe trade marner.
@@cravex06 well that’s how it goes it’s his first playoffs in a pressure cooker. All the analytics and eye test said to get him he has made some big hits,
@@keith96969 One of his hits put him out of position and lead to a breakaway goal for Florida in game 1. The breakaway goal for Florida in game 3 was also him being out of position with Holl.
I think what’s also being ignored here is that ROR may have been the wrong guy for the leafs to bring in at the deadline. Let’s not forget this guy is a multi time lady bing trophy winner. He’s definitely not driving the bus when it comes to mucking it up. He’s also lost a step and the Leafs weren’t dealing with having the quickest roster to begin with. When him and Tavares are out there together they are constantly behind the play. ROR simply can’t move quick enough anymore to be the defensive force he once was. Then you add the hand injury to all that and he hasn’t exactly been a gem in the faceoff circle either. Maybe the Leafs should’ve targeted Tyler Bertuzzi instead? All that being said, it’s the core 4 who have been the biggest disappointment. It’s the same old story every playoff. It doesn’t seem to matter who gets brought in to help these guys. They play like sissies.
I agree 100%. I'm curious what ownership would think if Leafs come back and make it a series but lose. I still think major changes need to be made. I would also look into their training scheme bc this team consistantly always has slow starts to season where teams steam roll over them in the 1st 10 games. Seems like it a training issue if it consistanly is happening.They have talented guys but they are being paid abit more then what was necessary I think.It certainly wasn't cup friendly contracts. That said not everyone can play in certain markets. Alot of variables play into.
Stop expecting the core four to all of a sudden become gritty. You cannot change the stripes on a Tiger. They need two gritty guys with them on a line who can pass the puck to them as well as be gritty.
A sports organization is a centralized, command and control hierarchy. The Leafs were arguable in disarray and Shanahan appears to have imprinted a strong culture and has enabled moves like bringing in talent at the management, coaching and playing level. He, along with Dubas, have structured a professional minor league feeder system and the loyalty and opportunity extended to their minor league and now NHL coach is honorable. The most successful coaches in the NHL tend to have been around for a while and have brought along a successful ethos that they gained either as a player, previous coach and sometimes both. In the playoffs coaching will naturally go with the guys that got you there. The run and gun regular season offensive show sells tickets and jerseys and from that perspective the Leafs are thriving. As Kyprios noted, the playoffs are a different beast. The defense appeared to be flat footed and gave up repeated turnovers resulting in Goals. Goaltending wins Cups and virtually everyone with their name engraved on Lord Stanley's hardware benefited from a Goalie who was able to stand on his head for 10-12 weeks in the spring and early summer. So it appears the culture has been established and the organization from a business standpoint is humming. Professional sports is also about winning. A great culture can be diminished by a group that accepts non performance and losing year after year. For all players, the NHL is big business and big contracts that are paid in full from day 1 to the last day of the regular season ensure that their financial incentives are not aligned with a long and punishing post season. Mathews, Marner and the Connor McDavid's all have their financial security guaranteed regardless of whether they win a playoff round. Perhaps instead of a relatively nominal playoff bounty offered, The NHL could prorate contracts over 10 months from the opening game to the Cup final. Instead of paying tv money etc directly to teams, they could beef up the playoff pool. For example a player that signs a USD$8m contract becomes eligible for a 25% top up contribution from the NHL. The now USD$10m contract is prorated over 10 months (Sept-June) but the player only earns the back end of the contract if he is still alive in the playoffs and payments stop when teams are eliminated. This financially aligns players with a winning playoff outcome. The big contract owners proportionally earn more but even the grinders who have smaller contracts have a chance to massively improve their earnings. So changes to the Leafs are required. #1 priority IMHO is goaltending. The young guy Woll looked good when called upon and might have the secret sauce but Samsonov was often caught out of position and gave up too many weak goals. Move Samsonov Defense was outmatched with both Florida opponents and the Leafs need their Coffey, Leetch, Lidstrom anchors to transition up ice without turnovers. Emphasis on a combination of speed and nastiness. In terms of trade bait up front I think you need to shake things up. Not necessarily wholesale changes but certainly a blockbuster with at least one of Tavares, Marner or Mathews needing to go. A Losing attitude is a virus that needs to be cut out. Edmonton went all in this year and if they are also out in the 2nd round to Vegas perhaps there is a blockbuster McDavid and or Draissaitl for Mathews and or Marner. An explosive move that could shake up both rosters. Another move is Mathews and Samsonov for the #1 pick with Chicago. Grab a potential generational talent and clear cap space. Is a coaching change warranted? Perhaps. Keep in mind NHL coaches earn their chops through experience and just blowing the coach out does not change a losing culture. And it could be positive but only if a world class guy is ready to step in. Joel Quenneville comes to mind. He took a bullet for what happened in Chicago but is a proven winner. Also add a McSorley, Semenko type that offers the snipers a little more room to operate. Thoughts?
Excellent analysis. A move to acquire either McDavid or Bedard would be awesome. The core 4 have clearly shown that they can not thrive in playoff hockey. I also think they need more size up front and more edgy players. In 2017 when the current group started their run, JVR and Kadri gave them some size and grit up front. Considering that Shanahan was one of the grittiest and toughest players in the history of the game, I'm surprised at the fact that he's allowed Dubas to build a team that is clearly the opposite of the way he was as a player.
@@joeraptor1 Good point! You would think that intuitively, Shanahan would value a guy who can score but isn't afraid to go into the fray. The run and gun offensive machines are entertaining in the regular season and nobody wants to watch Pat Burns style neutral zone traps but Messier style guys willing to do whatever it takes whether scoring a key goal or dropping the gloves to set the tone are important. Watching the Tampa series you got a sense that after 3 stellar years the Lightning were a little worn out and some of the unsung character guys had also moved on. Leafs were lucky to sneak through. Good teams win even when they are not at their best but I don't think that was the case here. The Panthers came in and although the scores were close, it seemed like the Leafs were dominated. Any quick goal was usually responded to with a quicker Panthers Goal and you sort of got a sense that the Leafs never really got going the way a team does when they are on a mission and also trust that their goalie will bail them out when they are getting outgunned.
@@goldenfuture6167 Agreed. The Leafs remind me of the Phoenix Suns when Steve Nash played. They thrived on fast break and run and gun basketball during the regular season but when the playoffs came around and teams tightened up defensively, they could never break through as that style of play was quickly shut down. The win against Tampa was more good fortune than good play. As a you pointed out, Tampa looked like an old and tired team after many years of deep playoff runs. The Panthers pressed the Leafs and made in uncomfortable for them to set up. Then they just counter attacked and got their chances to score. The key now is what MLSE wants to do. They'll either clean house and remove Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe or give Shanahan and Dubas one more run which probably means Keefe becomes the sacrificial lamb. After that, Matthews becomes the primary concern. If he doesn't sign an extension, it is definitely time to move on and trade him.
Couldnt agree with you more Nick , the reg season and the playoffs are night and day. And this Leafs core group need space to operate of which they have noone to do it . Well O'Reilly ill give you that, he gets it.
@Mckessa King he moves bodies , he hits , the playoffs isn't the reg season. You put a guy that makes room and hits out with a goal scorer not 3 f...g offensive guys. You ever watch Marner , Tavares Willy , Matthews try and hit? It's like watching a peewee age team. And I love Matthews he's my fav Leaf. Wendel Clark , there's a guy you watch during playoffs.
The goal is to get into the playoffs for additional revenue. No Toronto team cares if they win it all. The city is as bandwagon & casual a fan base as it gets.
it takes massive balls to change the lineup. Kudos to GM Zito to ship out Weegar and Huberdeau and moving a coach that gave them the President's Trophy. Hubi and Weegs didn't deliver in the PO last season, triggering to move out both of them. TML can't continue doing the same shit and expecting a different result.
I think it' a fait accomplis that Dubas and Shanny will be around for the next 8 weeks. They'll be responsible for what happens for that. It'll be an interesting 8 weeks.
Everyone is missing what the leafs needs. The core is one of the best in the league. Leafs need a goalie. That’s it. That’s how Florida just beat them. They had the better goaltending.
It would monumentally foolish to trade Nylander, Matthews, Rielly and Marner specially with Knies joining the group now. O'rielly, Schenn, Macabe, Acciari, Bunting, TJ Brodie and Lilegren should also be kept, use the rest to trade and get bigger Dmen and a goalie. Keep Dubas and get a new coach that can bring out the best out of these guys.
Had FL written off??? God!!! These guys were President cup last year. And then this year they got HEART! Matt K! Tampa Bay physically beat up the Leafs stars. FL is a playoff built buzz saw! SOLID SOLID SOLID playoff team. Watch and learn! 😮
Mmmm when it comes to building a team I’m going to trust the skill and intelligence of Dubas and Shannon over the pundits. The goaltending was the difference in the series - Toronto played well and at time outplayed Florida - but the guy between the pipes was the difference. The Leafs will get stronger and will break through - they have three to five years with this core group of superstars.
Nielander is the guy I would keep. Trade 34 & 16 for a number of quality players. Could probably get 4 or 6 very good “team players” for those two and you’ve rebuilt half your team!
Do you really think they are going to tear down the whole team? The addition of one or two key players COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING. The Leafs are one of the top teams in the league. My advice would be 'tweak, tweak, tweak' and try to stay away from the "I'm a really frustrated fan, WE ARE OWED A CUP, and I want you to blow it all up".
How much of the top 4 not scoring has to do with coaching in the playoffs. It's like their skilled guys don't know how to find space to make plays in the playoffs. Why can't they find or make the space. It's like they're handcuffed.
With Bettyman in charge, no Canadian team will win the Dtanley Cup. He wants all American teams promoted. IMO, Canadian teams are expendable fodder for hockey.
Simply trading Nylander to free up some cap and resigning others to run this back is insane. This management group had their chance. No blue chip players in the system outside Knies. Futures heavily traded for 1 series win in 5 years. When Dubas took over this team, it was very close to being playoff competitive. He comes in, gets rid of an affordable hard nosed 2nd line center and replaces him with an underwhelming 2nd line center at over half the price. What business school did he attend? Oh, that's right, junior hockey GM. I can go on about signing the core and all the issues with that, but I won't. What I will say is since Dubas took over he's created a studs and duds model where he's forced to find value players in the bargain bin, yet always up against the cap. His marriage to this core and the seeming inability to address club needs in 5 years is readily apparent for everyone to see. What peeves me off the most, though, is fans literally paid to apprentice the President, GM and coach. That's 8 years for management and a year or two less for coach. It's really too bad.
Oh man I agree. Before Dubas was the GM we were doing good. Then he shit all over it. I hope Nylander stays he plays well in the playoffs. I want Marner gone
there is not a chance this core of high falluti scoring stars should be disasembled, good god man , its not like u can just come out of the box fresh and competitive........oh wait Vegas or Seattle ......never mind, what a joke ,
and was the leader on a team that knocked out the #1 seed (Boston) and downed the Leafs in a mere 5 games (would likely been 4 if not for a lucky bounce off of the ref in game 4)
The game is sure different in the playoffs. For instance, when a thug like Radko Gudas is allowed to get away with what he does, you have to have an answer for that.
@@johngallagher72 Yes, for him alone. However, the issue is team defense not Marner. In the 1980's Islanders you had Mike Bossy and Trottier, but you also had Tonelli and Howatt etc. And Potvin ... The Leafs are easier to play against not because of the soft hands up front, but the 3rd/4th lines are not effective forecheckers and the defense allows too many chances. The TEAM may not be ideally built for the playoffs, but a guy like Dubas is going to see that. Taking TB to 7 games last year may have been a false positive as they won the Cup leading some to think we were right there. If we get swept, then it really clear, for playoff hockey we need some change, but I think we can do that starting with what we have. Dunno if they are going to sign Matthew's for $14+ that he will ask for. Then what? Let him walk? That's a big hit. If you trade him, he's a rental If we blow this up it'll be another 10 years of crap. Let's take what is a pretty decent team and find the guys we need (that every team needs ...) and fix at least what we know is broken Marner in my view, isn't the problem.
Do you like being abused at work? Yelled and sworn at? Really? Does that make you better? Companies almost over are firing executives for abuse. Why do you advocate it? If these old style coaches were winners they'd be in the game. Sutter probably the last one got canned. I think one of the best of the newer coaches is John Cooper of the Lightning. The Leafs are a great offensive team. Both the Lightning and the Pathers are checking them into the ice. I'm sick of the 'they don't care BS'. They all care JT came home for less money to play for a team he cares a LOT about. It's just too easy to say they don't care. Instead, what do we really need to do tonight? Play the Pathers game Check check check. 4 back play the trap and pounce when you can. Hit them as they cross the blue line. Worry about keeping the puck out our net than filling there's. We'll get our chances. For 40 years the Leafs have given up way too many shots. Shut down defense is boring except it wins in the playoffs.
@@henrivanbemmel those players are getting paid millions, if Babcock was yelling and swearing at them, they should have ask themselves why, he isn't a bully, he was there to win and he mistakenly assumed they were as well. I don't care what your sick about, that team has no heart and it's too late for a transplant. Traveras was never going to be a savior, to old.
The Leafs may keep fooling all the new young fans, but the older generation is or has given up on hope with this mess of an organization. Keep selling out home games, outrageous concession prices, jerseys, and stuff. There is no need to panic from their side of things. Winning a cup isn't as important to them as it is the true fan. So don't expect things to change now.
Sharpshooter,you hit the looney on the head,coaches are extremely over rated! Pewee,bantam,juniors,YES! For sure,afterwards,the players know the game,the playoffs are the pinnacle of ICE Hockey!
WHY not put Wayne Simmons on Matthew's line with Marner? This will free up more space for Marner and Matthews. Simmons should have been in the line up in game #3 to fix a Bennet problem and slam bennet's head on the ice..repeatedly!
Enough is enough....Time to blow up the Laffs....Dubious has to go....OKeefe has to go....Shanny's plan is not working Core 4 is a great golf foursome....trade all 4....get Bedard pick from Chicago....keep Woll....trade for Hellebuyck....get two Connors not named McDavid but with heart....try to get OReilley to stay....get more players like him (ie like a Matthew Tkachuk)....1967 was long ago
The bigger problem for the Leafs now is that other teams have seen Matthews and Marner how they play in the playoffs. Their value has gone down, neither of them are worth 10 million plus a year.
So do we ride it out and let them walk as free agents. Or hope that someone trades for them during the season .
Whatever they're worth if you blow this up it'll be 10 years of crap hockey, missing the playoffs etc before anything happens. Just like AA with the Jays, they dumped him now he's turned the Braves into a powerhouse. Trade the fab 4 for what you can get and they will be amazing wherever they land. Many, many teams would love to have our 'problems' these emotional reactions will only make it worse. Fix the defense, not just the goaltenders, cut the shot to under 20 per game and things will be better.
They’re the same they’ve been for the last 5 years
the bigger mistake was signing Tavares
Excuses are like buttholes- bottom line is Leafs stink stank stunk….Go WhalerCanes!!!
Barring some miraculous series come-back and win, expect to see Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe all fired once the Leafs are eliminated by the Panthers.
Expect to also see several players currently on the Leaf roster not be back next season.
Need top players able to play gritty in playoffs
I love seeing Leafs lose. Makes me so happy. The best was Habs in 7
Great insight by Kipper.
Jeff ONeill said something very similar after the Montreal collapse.
Nick had the answer; before the series each of the core 4 should be given a "Head shot"
Great show!!
Kyper knows the recipe for success IMO
He makes a great point about the difference between the distinction between the seasons .
Big changes on the fourth line coming up, mark my words.
😂
Love the Centennials jersey behind Kypreos. Classic.
This is on the core 4 and Keefe. Dubas brought in Ror, Noel Acciari, Sam Lafferty, Jake McCabe. All 4 are tough as nails. Fire Shanny fire keefe trade marner.
Also brought in Luke Schenn ...I agree .
McCabe has been awful and one of the reasons they lost the first two games. Schenn has been great.
@@cravex06 well that’s how it goes it’s his first playoffs in a pressure cooker. All the analytics and eye test said to get him he has made some big hits,
@@keith96969 One of his hits put him out of position and lead to a breakaway goal for Florida in game 1. The breakaway goal for Florida in game 3 was also him being out of position with Holl.
I think what’s also being ignored here is that ROR may have been the wrong guy for the leafs to bring in at the deadline. Let’s not forget this guy is a multi time lady bing trophy winner. He’s definitely not driving the bus when it comes to mucking it up. He’s also lost a step and the Leafs weren’t dealing with having the quickest roster to begin with. When him and Tavares are out there together they are constantly behind the play. ROR simply can’t move quick enough anymore to be the defensive force he once was. Then you add the hand injury to all that and he hasn’t exactly been a gem in the faceoff circle either. Maybe the Leafs should’ve targeted Tyler Bertuzzi instead? All that being said, it’s the core 4 who have been the biggest disappointment. It’s the same old story every playoff. It doesn’t seem to matter who gets brought in to help these guys. They play like sissies.
I agree 100%. I'm curious what ownership would think if Leafs come back and make it a series but lose. I still think major changes need to be made. I would also look into their training scheme bc this team consistantly always has slow starts to season where teams steam roll over them in the 1st 10 games. Seems like it a training issue if it consistanly is happening.They have talented guys but they are being paid abit more then what was necessary I think.It certainly wasn't cup friendly contracts. That said not everyone can play in certain markets. Alot of variables play into.
Stop expecting the core four to all of a sudden become gritty. You cannot change the stripes on a Tiger. They need two gritty guys with them on a line who can pass the puck to them as well as be gritty.
They got rid of Matt Martin and Colton Orr and didn’t trade for Ryan Reaves.
A sports organization is a centralized, command and control hierarchy. The Leafs were arguable in disarray and Shanahan appears to have imprinted a strong culture and has enabled moves like bringing in talent at the management, coaching and playing level. He, along with Dubas, have structured a professional minor league feeder system and the loyalty and opportunity extended to their minor league and now NHL coach is honorable. The most successful coaches in the NHL tend to have been around for a while and have brought along a successful ethos that they gained either as a player, previous coach and sometimes both. In the playoffs coaching will naturally go with the guys that got you there.
The run and gun regular season offensive show sells tickets and jerseys and from that perspective the Leafs are thriving. As Kyprios noted, the playoffs are a different beast. The defense appeared to be flat footed and gave up repeated turnovers resulting in Goals. Goaltending wins Cups and virtually everyone with their name engraved on Lord Stanley's hardware benefited from a Goalie who was able to stand on his head for 10-12 weeks in the spring and early summer. So it appears the culture has been established and the organization from a business standpoint is humming.
Professional sports is also about winning. A great culture can be diminished by a group that accepts non performance and losing year after year. For all players, the NHL is big business and big contracts that are paid in full from day 1 to the last day of the regular season ensure that their financial incentives are not aligned with a long and punishing post season. Mathews, Marner and the Connor McDavid's all have their financial security guaranteed regardless of whether they win a playoff round.
Perhaps instead of a relatively nominal playoff bounty offered, The NHL could prorate contracts over 10 months from the opening game to the Cup final. Instead of paying tv money etc directly to teams, they could beef up the playoff pool. For example a player that signs a USD$8m contract becomes eligible for a 25% top up contribution from the NHL. The now USD$10m contract is prorated over 10 months (Sept-June) but the player only earns the back end of the contract if he is still alive in the playoffs and payments stop when teams are eliminated. This financially aligns players with a winning playoff outcome. The big contract owners proportionally earn more but even the grinders who have smaller contracts have a chance to massively improve their earnings.
So changes to the Leafs are required.
#1 priority IMHO is goaltending. The young guy Woll looked good when called upon and might have the secret sauce but Samsonov was often caught out of position and gave up too many weak goals. Move Samsonov
Defense was outmatched with both Florida opponents and the Leafs need their Coffey, Leetch, Lidstrom anchors to transition up ice without turnovers. Emphasis on a combination of speed and nastiness.
In terms of trade bait up front I think you need to shake things up. Not necessarily wholesale changes but certainly a blockbuster with at least one of Tavares, Marner or Mathews needing to go. A Losing attitude is a virus that needs to be cut out. Edmonton went all in this year and if they are also out in the 2nd round to Vegas perhaps there is a blockbuster McDavid and or Draissaitl for Mathews and or Marner. An explosive move that could shake up both rosters. Another move is Mathews and Samsonov for the #1 pick with Chicago. Grab a potential generational talent and clear cap space.
Is a coaching change warranted? Perhaps. Keep in mind NHL coaches earn their chops through experience and just blowing the coach out does not change a losing culture. And it could be positive but only if a world class guy is ready to step in. Joel Quenneville comes to mind. He took a bullet for what happened in Chicago but is a proven winner.
Also add a McSorley, Semenko type that offers the snipers a little more room to operate.
Thoughts?
Excellent analysis. A move to acquire either McDavid or Bedard would be awesome. The core 4 have clearly shown that they can not thrive in playoff hockey. I also think they need more size up front and more edgy players. In 2017 when the current group started their run, JVR and Kadri gave them some size and grit up front. Considering that Shanahan was one of the grittiest and toughest players in the history of the game, I'm surprised at the fact that he's allowed Dubas to build a team that is clearly the opposite of the way he was as a player.
@@joeraptor1 Good point! You would think that intuitively, Shanahan would value a guy who can score but isn't afraid to go into the fray. The run and gun offensive machines are entertaining in the regular season and nobody wants to watch Pat Burns style neutral zone traps but Messier style guys willing to do whatever it takes whether scoring a key goal or dropping the gloves to set the tone are important. Watching the Tampa series you got a sense that after 3 stellar years the Lightning were a little worn out and some of the unsung character guys had also moved on. Leafs were lucky to sneak through. Good teams win even when they are not at their best but I don't think that was the case here. The Panthers came in and although the scores were close, it seemed like the Leafs were dominated. Any quick goal was usually responded to with a quicker Panthers Goal and you sort of got a sense that the Leafs never really got going the way a team does when they are on a mission and also trust that their goalie will bail them out when they are getting outgunned.
@@goldenfuture6167 Agreed. The Leafs remind me of the Phoenix Suns when Steve Nash played. They thrived on fast break and run and gun basketball during the regular season but when the playoffs came around and teams tightened up defensively, they could never break through as that style of play was quickly shut down. The win against Tampa was more good fortune than good play. As a you pointed out, Tampa looked like an old and tired team after many years of deep playoff runs. The Panthers pressed the Leafs and made in uncomfortable for them to set up. Then they just counter attacked and got their chances to score. The key now is what MLSE wants to do. They'll either clean house and remove Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe or give Shanahan and Dubas one more run which probably means Keefe becomes the sacrificial lamb. After that, Matthews becomes the primary concern. If he doesn't sign an extension, it is definitely time to move on and trade him.
Quenville took a bullet cuz he got caught covering up a sexual assault. The rest I agree with
Love Kipper! Please come to Boston. P S Dont bring Sammy
The Leafs can soon caddy for the Habs.
This is mostly on the players + culture, trend & not the coach. Just look at Paul Maurice and his playoff success with the Panthers.
Anyone else thinking Matthews to LA ?
The farm has to have Clydesdales and Thoroughbreds - but, please, no chickens!
Couldnt agree with you more Nick , the reg season and the playoffs are night and day. And this Leafs core group need space to operate of which they have noone to do it . Well O'Reilly ill give you that, he gets it.
O'Reilly has done nothing this series.
@Mckessa King he moves bodies , he hits , the playoffs isn't the reg season. You put a guy that makes room and hits out with a goal scorer not 3 f...g offensive guys. You ever watch Marner , Tavares
Willy , Matthews try and hit? It's like watching a peewee age team. And I love Matthews he's my fav Leaf. Wendel Clark , there's a guy you watch during playoffs.
The real sign was Columbus in the bubble.They should have smoked Columbus when you compared the two teams on paper.
Korpisalo and Dubois stopped the Softies in their tracks.
@@rickymartin875 no disrespect to Dubois but Matthews should have owned him ...and all credit to JP he outplayed 34 head to head
I love listening to Kypreos he helps me catch up on my sleep 🤣🤣
oh yes, he is really something
Fire & Trade EVERYONE. Complete rebuild.
Rebuild.. so no Stanley cups. Fans say the stupidest shit. They already didn’t win. & only one team can.
I don’t think the Stanley Cup is as important to MLSE as the media make it out to be.
There ya go - First smart thing I've read on these posts.
The goal is to get into the playoffs for additional revenue. No Toronto team cares if they win it all. The city is as bandwagon & casual a fan base as it gets.
it takes massive balls to change the lineup. Kudos to GM Zito to ship out Weegar and Huberdeau and moving a coach that gave them the President's Trophy. Hubi and Weegs didn't deliver in the PO last season, triggering to move out both of them. TML can't continue doing the same shit and expecting a different result.
they need to build the team in September not at the deadline, look at Carolina the 2023 cup champs.
How about Hellerbuck for Nylander Leafs need a show stopper.
Someone🇨🇦 who came just recently is a Conn Smythe Winner
I think it' a fait accomplis that Dubas and Shanny will be around for the next 8 weeks. They'll be responsible for what happens for that. It'll be an interesting 8 weeks.
Everyone is missing what the leafs needs. The core is one of the best in the league. Leafs need a goalie. That’s it. That’s how Florida just beat them. They had the better goaltending.
Drop some of these so called superstars and add more Canadian players, these guys just don't have the grit needed to make a run in the playoffs.
This was why Matthew Knies was a lost when he got the concussion
🍁Can we shame the Leafs into reality? “Big Blue Zombies”🍁
If leafs lose tonight people will blame keefer
why does Bob’s avatar have lish brown hair? 😂
It would monumentally foolish to trade Nylander, Matthews, Rielly and Marner specially with Knies joining the group now. O'rielly, Schenn, Macabe, Acciari, Bunting, TJ Brodie and Lilegren should also be kept, use the rest to trade and get bigger Dmen and a goalie. Keep Dubas and get a new coach that can bring out the best out of these guys.
Had FL written off??? God!!! These guys were President cup last year. And then this year they got HEART! Matt K! Tampa Bay physically beat up the Leafs stars. FL is a playoff built buzz saw! SOLID SOLID SOLID playoff team. Watch and learn! 😮
Mmmm when it comes to building a team I’m going to trust the skill and intelligence of Dubas and Shannon over the pundits. The goaltending was the difference in the series - Toronto played well and at time outplayed Florida - but the guy between the pipes was the difference. The Leafs will get stronger and will break through - they have three to five years with this core group of superstars.
Your presumption is that Dubas and Shanny are building a team to win as opposed to building a team to maximize profits?
You can't not back with Same gms
What?
Nielander is the guy I would keep. Trade 34 & 16 for a number of quality players. Could probably get 4 or 6 very good “team players” for those two and you’ve rebuilt half your team!
dubas picked the puffs
Indeed. Players in his own image.
Do you really think they are going to tear down the whole team? The addition of one or two key players COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING. The Leafs are one of the top teams in the league. My advice would be 'tweak, tweak, tweak' and try to stay away from the "I'm a really frustrated fan, WE ARE OWED A CUP, and I want you to blow it all up".
Bring back Gary Leeman
How much of the top 4 not scoring has to do with coaching in the playoffs. It's like their skilled guys don't know how to find space to make plays in the playoffs. Why can't they find or make the space. It's like they're handcuffed.
toronto don t need big change tavares is to slow the goalie position need reinforcement like a philipp grubauer
Kyper is the best. HNIC screwed up when they got rid of him.
Fire Kyle Duffus
Not happening
With Bettyman in charge, no Canadian team will win the Dtanley Cup. He wants all American teams promoted. IMO, Canadian teams are expendable fodder for hockey.
Simply trading Nylander to free up some cap and resigning others to run this back is insane. This management group had their chance. No blue chip players in the system outside Knies. Futures heavily traded for 1 series win in 5 years. When Dubas took over this team, it was very close to being playoff competitive. He comes in, gets rid of an affordable hard nosed 2nd line center and replaces him with an underwhelming 2nd line center at over half the price. What business school did he attend? Oh, that's right, junior hockey GM. I can go on about signing the core and all the issues with that, but I won't. What I will say is since Dubas took over he's created a studs and duds model where he's forced to find value players in the bargain bin, yet always up against the cap. His marriage to this core and the seeming inability to address club needs in 5 years is readily apparent for everyone to see.
What peeves me off the most, though, is fans literally paid to apprentice the President, GM and coach. That's 8 years for management and a year or two less for coach. It's really too bad.
Interesting take. Never thought of that ‘apprenticing’ angle..
Oh man I agree. Before Dubas was the GM we were doing good. Then he shit all over it.
I hope Nylander stays he plays well in the playoffs. I want Marner gone
Agree with Kyper! Too much of the same player style & ultimateky too soft to win in playoff hockey where highlight reels mean nothing
there is not a chance this core of high falluti scoring stars should be disasembled, good god man , its not like u can just come out of the box fresh and competitive........oh wait Vegas or Seattle ......never mind, what a joke ,
Leafs don’t scare nobody….
anybody not nobody
Yes they need to play like Tkachuk, who has 0 goals in the second round of the playoffs.
and was the leader on a team that knocked out the #1 seed (Boston) and downed the Leafs in a mere 5 games (would likely been 4 if not for a lucky bounce off of the ref in game 4)
Matthews and Nylander to Chicago for first overall in the draft and fire Coach and GM.
The Stanley cup is a very difficult championship to win…full stop…that being said…TO should have done better
there Wimps
The game is sure different in the playoffs. For instance, when a thug like Radko Gudas is allowed to get away with what he does, you have to have an answer for that.
Bob needs a haircut
bob's "lighting" is just awful; he should go back down to the basement.
Most of the last 55 years and Marner doesn't give a flying
Thats pretty unfair ...
He probably does care...only problem . His game doesn't translate to post season and he's not built physically for post season.
@@johngallagher72 Yes, for him alone. However, the issue is team defense not Marner. In the 1980's Islanders you had Mike Bossy and Trottier, but you also had Tonelli and Howatt etc. And Potvin ...
The Leafs are easier to play against not because of the soft hands up front, but the 3rd/4th lines are not effective forecheckers and the defense allows too many chances. The TEAM may not be ideally built for the playoffs, but a guy like Dubas is going to see that. Taking TB to 7 games last year may have been a false positive as they won the Cup leading some to think we were right there. If we get swept, then it really clear, for playoff hockey we need some change, but I think we can do that starting with what we have. Dunno if they are going to sign Matthew's for $14+ that he will ask for. Then what? Let him walk? That's a big hit. If you trade him, he's a rental
If we blow this up it'll be another 10 years of crap. Let's take what is a pretty decent team and find the guys we need (that every team needs ...) and fix at least what we know is broken Marner in my view, isn't the problem.
@@henrivanbemmel He better start handling the heat with all due respect sir.
Marshmallows Team is too soft & have no MENTAL TOUGHNESS during the playoffs.
It’s obviously difficult to not just come right out and say the Leafs best forwards are a bunch of soft sissies.
Bob slamming Shannon is getting stale.
and Mike Babcock was too too mean, what a joke, that group of clowns won't play for anyone, I wonder how many have already bought a new set of clubs
The coach that knew how to win!
@@KIIDKYAAS exactly, he's saying ' I told you so '
@@KIIDKYAAS babcock’s lines in the playoffs with the leafs were worse than keefe’s stop. neither keefe or babcock knew what it took in toronto
Do you like being abused at work? Yelled and sworn at? Really? Does that make you better? Companies almost over are firing executives for abuse. Why do you advocate it? If these old style coaches were winners they'd be in the game. Sutter probably the last one got canned. I think one of the best of the newer coaches is John Cooper of the Lightning.
The Leafs are a great offensive team. Both the Lightning and the Pathers are checking them into the ice.
I'm sick of the 'they don't care BS'. They all care JT came home for less money to play for a team he cares a LOT about. It's just too easy to say they don't care.
Instead, what do we really need to do tonight? Play the Pathers game Check check check. 4 back play the trap and pounce when you can. Hit them as they cross the blue line. Worry about keeping the puck out our net than filling there's. We'll get our chances.
For 40 years the Leafs have given up way too many shots. Shut down defense is boring except it wins in the playoffs.
@@henrivanbemmel those players are getting paid millions, if Babcock was yelling and swearing at them, they should have ask themselves why, he isn't a bully, he was there to win and he mistakenly assumed they were as well. I don't care what your sick about, that team has no heart and it's too late for a transplant. Traveras was never going to be a savior, to old.
The Leafs may keep fooling all the new young fans, but the older generation is or has given up on hope with this mess of an organization. Keep selling out home games, outrageous concession prices, jerseys, and stuff. There is no need to panic from their side of things. Winning a cup isn't as important to them as it is the true fan. So don't expect things to change now.
One of the 10 million dollar players has to go, just to afford quality role players.
too many cheifs not enough indians
Sharpshooter,you hit the looney on the head,coaches are extremely over rated! Pewee,bantam,juniors,YES! For sure,afterwards,the players know the game,the playoffs are the pinnacle of ICE Hockey!
WHY not put Wayne Simmons on Matthew's line with Marner? This will free up more space for Marner and Matthews. Simmons should have been in the line up in game #3 to fix a Bennet problem and slam bennet's head on the ice..repeatedly!
Enough is enough....Time to blow up the Laffs....Dubious has to go....OKeefe has to go....Shanny's plan is not working Core 4 is a great golf foursome....trade all 4....get Bedard pick from Chicago....keep Woll....trade for Hellebuyck....get two Connors not named McDavid but with heart....try to get OReilley to stay....get more players like him (ie like a Matthew Tkachuk)....1967 was long ago
Try to get Brady Tkachuk for Marner and picks. Too many softees.
Stop it with the delusions. It makes you look idiotic.
Unless they are dense,or get a super deal,why would you trade for these non performers.Highly paid golfers,who are playing in the NHL!
All u people think theres a chance wake up this series is over tonight
3 MEMBERS OF MENSA
lol
Leafs core 4 = soft
Bob is it true you got prostate cancer. Or brain 🧠 cancer.
Blame the refs all you want… the Leafs didn’t win a game at home in this series.
“WE WANT FLORIDA!” 🏌️♀️.