How does pressure effect TDS rejection from my RO Membrane? | BRStv Investigates
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2016
- brs.li/ShopRO Today on BRStv, we are launching a brand new series: BRStv Investigates. In this series we will explore popular reefing theories, products, methods, and what the manuals are missing, with a focus on putting them to the test!
This week we're examining some general reverse osmosis advice: Do you need 50 PSI for an RO/DI system to operate properly?
So follow along as we answer today's question, provide some helpful insight, and help make reefing just bit more fun and easy for you and your tank.
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Results:
10 PSI: 9 GPD @ 17 TDS
20 PSI: 22 GPD @ 10 TDS
30 PSI: 37 GPD @ 5 TDS
40 PSI: 51 GPD @ 4 TDS
50 PSI: 69 GPD @ 3 TDS
60 PSI: 78 GPD @ 3 TDS
70 PSI: 96 GPD @ 2 TDS
80 PSI: 109 GPD @ 2 TDS
90 PSI: 120 GPD @ 2 TDS
Also, GPD flow rate roughly increases about 3% per degree Celsius as shown in the chart @ 6:17
You guys are so on top of everything. I cant even count how many videos I have watch from you guys and since I started the reefing hobby. I have not lost any coral or fish. Your videos cover all the angles possible. You leave no doubt to the all reef hobbyists from beginner to the more advanced.
You guys make the best reef videos on RUclips. Thanks for the hard work!
Wow this directly relates to the question I asked you guys concerning rejection rates, you guys do amazing research and testing.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I've had my brs 150 ro/di filter for a year now and I'm so freaking happy I got it. It works perfectly and I don't have to go lug around 20 gallons every week from the store. I just moved, but for a year mine ran on 80 psi now at the new place I live it's showing 70. great work guys!
awesome test run and reveal of the many factors involved... just great info!
I have the BRS 4 stage RODI system and my PSI is always at 70-72. Living in south west Florida the temp of my water is around 75 on cold so my specs are spot on 😀 TDS meters shows 15 going in and 0 coming out. Nice video guys
Great video. Keep it up. I am looking to buy an RO system in the next month or so. Thank you for the videos.
I had 100 psi on my home system in AZ and it never clicked that that might be why I had such a hard time getting the filters to seal and not leak. Very cool, thanks BRS!
Thanks, very helpful video. I bought the 4 stage from you today.
This is great timing. I'm averaging about 10 gallons a day from my system and was looking into a booster pump, as our water pressure is stupidly low!
Hey BRS really enjoying the new series! A while back you did a video on biopellets, I'd like to see them invesigated further. Things like does dosing bacteria help, does keeping your Alkalinity around 8-9dkh make a difference, can you tumble too aggressively, does less tumbling decrease bacteria, NO3 and PO4 outtake and can it promote/feed Cyanobacteria. There's a lot theories and not so many facts. keep the awesome content coming! Thanks
Great video. definitely puts the water pressure debate to bed and probably just convinced me to buy a booster
Excellent video. Very succinct and informative
I bought a used BRS 150 gpd system from a fellow reefer for $75 and bought the carbon block and DI resin kit for $50. So $125 in all ,not bad. The membranes still have a good amount of life left in them . The reefer buddy helped me install it and I get a whopping 85 psi when it runs. The pressure gauge indicates about 45 psi when the valve is closed . I can fill a 5 gallon water bottle in about 1 hr so I'm pretty happy with that. Even better was the fact that I didn't need an expensive booster pump to increase water line pressure because I have more than enough.
Love your guys work.
My home regulator broke. In the week before it got repaired, my psi was reading 120. I was getting 160+ gpd out of my unit. Very little waste water. It was amazing. However, It did leak, and when your pressure is that high you run the risk of blowing out the unit. But I will remember it fondly.
I'm glad I bought my booster pump years ago. Thanks for the video guys!
I'm running at 80 psi without a booster pump, and I'm happy with the results.
Ryan, keep going! I like the series!
Where do I sign up?
***** Whoa, still rather see Ryan mug😄
So looking fwd to setting up my system. My tap TDS is around 25 to 30 ULTRA low already, going to have some super nice water coming soon.
Wow! 25 to 30 TDS from your tap? Where do you live?
This was so very helpful! Can you do the same video but with variable waste water to product water ratios such as 1:1, 1.5:1, 2:1, 2.5:1, 3:1 with a stable psi, say at 60 psi?
I always like your videos, also I have 100 psi or more on my system from city water. my tds from my membrane is 1 or less
I have 65psi at my house, I guess I should feel lucky! Video idea: Kalkwasser, how long can it sit before it goes bad inside a home? As it absorbs co2 it becomes less effective.
Great video, I'm always changing carbons because the flow diminishes fast in most, not saying that things get stuck in it, I'm saying that it seems that the brs carbon is so small it creates like a brick effect, then trying other brands, some larger, like evs, those pieces are like a Tetris game, different shapes and sizes but they most rotate slowly and create that brick effect also, recently tried the seachem brand, small circles, flow never decreases, rinses fast, seems to clean just as good, not sure, Iknow u guys sell many brands and don't want to push ur brand but really wish u would compare brand names more often! Thx
Hey Ryan! Awesome scientific approach to testing this out. I have your 4 stage 75gpd and love it. One question, my tap has a pressure of 75psi but I only get 45psi on the membrane. This seems like a lot of pressure loss. Any suggestions?
Good stuff Ryan, thanks for another informative video! If you could do one on double membranes and pressure, that would be great! I have double 75gpd membranes and run them at 90 psi and achieve 1:1 product to waste. A question I have is flushing a double membrane system... since they are in line, should you have flush after each membrane or just the one after both?
very helpfull
Good to know about the temperature. Next time I'm making a large batch of water, I'm going to try increasing the incoming water temp. by adding a 25 foot tubing inside the main display tank at 79 degrees. Hopefully that would be enough to get some heat exchange and increase performance.
I know I have cool incoming water because after a few hours of running, everything appears to be "sweating".(Similar to when you pull a cold beer out of the fridge. After a few minutes it's covered dew.)
Or you can add a tempering valve on the inlet and ajust it to The desired temperature. There around 60 to 70 bucks.
Do you guys sell the pressure adjustment valve? I'm running 90psi out of my booster pump and I may want to turn it down to 70 psi like you recommended.
Can you please do a video on how to install a filter monitor on a RO di unit please
Hey Ryan. I appreciate your videos. I have a question for you. I have a 4 stage with the water saver. My pressure is at 60psi but my water level in my DI canister only stays filled up in the bottom 2 inches. Should I be concerned? I have a valve on my product water and I closed it slightly to create back pressure to raise the water level in that canister. Is that weird?
i'm using the BRS value water saver+ on about 46PSI and I get like 2-3TDS post-RO and of course 0TDS post-DI. I wish I had a TDS meter on the incoming water though, as I'm not sure what it is coming in. Haha, I was secretly hoping you'd have tested 45PSI to give an idea what my system is like! Haha, but i think at 46PSI i'm probably doing mostly-OK. I've been super impressed with this system so far.
I was interested if dual vs single membrane made any difference for pressure, since I am running your dual membrane / 150GPD system and i've often heard people say they require higher pressures.
Great video. Would have loved to have seen a graph of the results: pressure vs TDS and pressure vs flow rate to summarize
Just a suggestion. You guys make the best reef how-to videos. Found your store BRS through these videos. Thanks for the great work.
Just picked up a 4 stage water saver and turns out my water is already at 70 PSI, sweet!
Jackpot!
A video to check the myth that Activated carbon absorbs "Good" things from the tank like Ca, Alk, Mg would be great
MICRO elements, not macro. The rate of absorption of either ALK, Cal, Mag, would still be replaced easily with two part. Also there is a lot of those elements in the water. Micro elements however are not replaced with two part and can be much lower in concentration in NSW.
I was thinking on setting up two tanks with the same water. On one you put carbon and in the other one nothing to have as control. Take a sample of the water before the test starts, send it for analysis to triton or aquarium water testing to see how parameters look like. Then wait X amount of time (days, weeks) and take samples during that time and send them for analysis to see how parameters deviate. By having the control tank you can compare to see how much the carbon consumes vs the control one.
I am very interested in this as well, I've noticed decreased rates of Iodine with larger amounts of activated carbon used. Also could be good to test various types of carbon to see if there is a difference in rates of absorption?
did you guys follow up on this ?
I run my frequently at 125+ PSI. It performs excellent. If I want to lower TDS I simply increase waste water.
What FR value you used in this test
I actually have just under 80psi as measured by pressure gauge one my brs value plus rodi 75 gpd. but course water is around 430 TDs n I usually end up settling with 3-4 tds product water.
just throwing something out there. actually called some of these booster pump guys like Shurflo and Flotec. not for aquarium use but looking for a booster for my 4040 Axeon HF5 membrane. 80 is the basic listed optimal pressure. still produces a lot of water, rated at 2400 gpd. 80 to 100 psi would be great. Did notice that when I used a transfer pump and got to 80 the TDS was never really affected. it just produced more water faster. So also wonder if this membrane is set up to run at 80 too 100 but to affect tds at that point it needs to boost over 100 to see tds drop or maybe that is just what the membrane can give because of the type water I have?
My tank is currently at my parent's house and I recently went to do some maintenance. I was SHOCKED to see the gauge on my RODI reach 95psi!! It usually stayed around 60 at their home. Also a plus at their home, the incoming water has a TDS of only 17, the outgoing "trash" water has a TDS of zero. I can fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 10 minutes! I don't expect to be able to repeat this when I move that tank into my home :( hahaha
yes, right out of the tap
Is there anyway to place pump before membrane in a way that does not affect pressure on other cartridges?
A video on "in-sump" vs. "external" Protein skimmer performance
Thankyouuuu
my BRS 6 stage us at 40 psi. I recently hooked up a Aquafx booster pump and my psi is now over 100. I don't have any leaks but I noticed that before the pressure switch cuts power to the booster pump my psi guage is really pegged out! am I ok? or do you guys recommend I do something? If so could you please tell me what?!
Thank you in advance, I really appreciate you guys!!!!
How did you increase the pressure ? did you achieve that closing the efluent line or you used the pressure valve at the RO inlet ? Increasing the efluent line we can also increase the pressure but I guess its not the right way to do it
Do you have any instructions how did you build up this system?
Hi there, I don't know whether you can help me but I have a problem. I have a reverse. Almost is 4 stage with a motor pump. I have a water barrel in my shed. And it's got a float that turns the water off. When the float turns the water off. My machine, keep on coming on and off. That switches on the. Wastewater that the waistwater goes out, you know that goes down the drain, your waistwater. It keeps coming on and off about every 20 seconds please. Can you help if you can thank you
what PSI should be for 300 GPD membrane? Please Answer
GREAT TEST!!! The high PSIs on home plumbing is dangerous isn't it? What are recommended limits? ALSO - what about going with HiGH PSI before the RO system, say at 90psi, but on RO outlet have a regulator that will limit it to 50psi?
90 PSI is the max that we recommend, although most of us will dial it back to around 70-80 PSI with a booster pump. The pressure really only matters going into the RO membrane. Coming out, the pressure will be substantially reduced.
In RO plant where the presure is more...in reject salt water or permit drinking water?
How does the cold water effect reject water? I have a high efficiency ro gro75, marketed at 1:1. But a 2 week old system at 13.5C i get 1:4.1 ...
How does adjusting the pure water to waste water ratio affect the TDS? What would happen if you had a system that ran a 3:1 ratio at 80 PSI with a 10 TDS and reduced the waste water flow so that the ratio would bec1:1?
Would running at a higher pressure reduce the life of the membrane much or nothing noticeable ?
What psi should I run in my storage tank? I have a booster pump.
Was there a perceived impact on the recovery rate as the pressure was increased?
My husband took our RO system out to replace the floor under the sink, now he’s not sure which hose goes where? There’s an orange, yellow, blue and a black hose is there a picture we can go by? RO model #120733
This test was for the FilmTec *BW60-1812-75* membrane, which has a minimum salt rejection of *96%.*
What do you think of the similar FilmTec *TW30-1812-50HR* membrane, which has a minimum salt rejection of *98%* ? It is a bit slower, but as a worst-case scenario, it lets only *2%* of the TDS pass through compared to *4%* .
The BW60-1812-75 actually has 99% salt rejection rate, so it's our go-to membrane if rejection rate is the priority. The TW30-1812-50HR also has a 99% salt rejection rate, but like you mentioned, produces water more slowly. You can usually get even better performance out of your membrane by increasing the pressure past the test PSI (like Ryan talks about in this video). If you're into computers, think of it as similar to overclocking.
Hi Ryan, excellent video. Thanks for making and sharing the same. Just had a question - did you also measure the recovery rate (waste water to pure water ratio) as you changed the input pressure? Thanks
The waste:product water ratio is not something that we measured as a part of this test.
@@BRStv Ok. thanks.
Hi i have aqua RO DI with one paper one carbon and two DI at 38 psi im getting 0 tds in going is 120tds after the carbon 17. But i do notice that both my di Chambers dont fill up is that normal. I just get it and been running for maybe hour .ive never used ro di before
as always you guys are on top of thing 10 thumbs up
If i wanted to make 20 gallons of RODI, and didn't want to waste water, could I just fill up a 40 gallon tub of tap, run my RO system inlet and waste into the tap tub, with a booster to pump water into my room system? That way my "waste" gets recycled back into the ro system while my pure water flows into a separate 20 gallon container?
i have the 6 stag RO/DI filter and had tp replace the gauge twice this since i had it for two years. am i doing somingthing wrong? my pressure with the r o booster is 8o psi.
BulkReefSupplyCom the gauge stop reading the pressure
Should ro/di water have a specific ph level?
whats the optimal psi for the 4 stage RODI ? i have the booster pump on it and its running at 85 psi but the cannisters are leaking from the top seam =(
All of our BRS RODI units run best at 50psi and up. Higher PSI in the 80-90 range does produce better performance, but the seals should not leak. It's best to verify that the O-ring inside the top of the canister is not pinched or damaged and also best to use the canister tool to ensure they are tightly sealed. If it continues to leak, try replacing the o-rings with new ones. :)
Pentair
Micro tfc
csm
hydronatics
torbay
dow
wich membrane is better sir
I thought tds was always supposed to be 000,so I can make water at 3 tds?
hi,brs.
I have 100gpd dow membrane with 500 flow rejection.
my tap water is 270 ppm but after membrane my tds is 34 ppm. it's right? or I should get better tds.
also my pressure gage is on 80 psi.
What's problem???
I now have a similar problem with my RO membrane . Did you solve it ? Would love to know solution, thx
Hey BRS , quick clarification question: Did I understand you correctly that initially you ran the system non-stop for 4 days straight ??
I currently just installed a new RODI setup, but I am still getting 22 tds after the RO (330 tds at sources) after having ran it for 4 hours at 50-60 psi presssure and very warm waters... not sure what the issue might be ??
This is correct. You should see fairly normal rejection rates after 24 hours of production, but optimal will show after a few days. Other factors can effect this like water temp not being at 77 degrees, and pressure through the unit. I would give it some time, and if having issues you can contact our support team for troubleshooting assistance. (:
@@BRStv It's been about a week now, with 8 hours a day. My pressure is still at 60PSI, but my TDS is still at ~18 , which is about 95% rejection rate. My water temp is around 90 degrees tho. Not sure why it's not going down to 98-99% rejection...
Do you ship products to Europe (U.K.)
Since RO membranes remove Phosphates and Nitrates, would you ever want a RO filter in your tank?
Hi guys. I have 25PSI in my tap. Can this be an issue that my waste water don't stop? I use auto shut off valve. Thx
Most auto shut off valves will require at least 40 PSI to operate properly. You'll want a booster pump for your system, which will not only help the auto shut off perform as it should, but will also greatly improve your RO/DI system's overall performance.
www.bulkreefsupply.com/1-4-aquatec-8800-booster-pump-kit-bundle.html
I guess I'm one of the 10% with about 70psi =)
nice , I need a booster pump asap
Hi I've just got a 3 stage, I'm bit confused, I've seen on RUclips say you should get about 25/30% RO water, yet you say about 98% rejection, I measured mine today and something must be wrong, with waste water I can fill a 10 litre watering can up in 4 minutes and 29 drips of RO every 10 seconds, 696 drips every 4 minutes, surly that's to much waste? It takes me 12 hours just to get to buckets worth, as hard as I try I can't get 100% fit on the tap, it leaks about 5% volume of waste water flow rate, I thought yes that would probably cause slight problem but not that much, being on my parents water meter I'm not going to be able to keep that much wasted going, would cost about £160/£200 a year just on water
The rejection rate is in regards to contaminants. For our single membrane systems, you can usually expect about a 3:1 waste to product ratio, while the water saver systems will usually have a 1.5:1 waste to product ratio. You'll get more product water and less waste with higher pressure and the other way around with lower pressure.
As the pressure increases and the product water rate increases what happens to the waste water? Is the waste to product ratio getting closer to 1:1 or does the ratio remain the same? I am assuming the flow coming out of the tap to remain the same so the increased pressure should also reduce waste water 🤔 or do booster pumps suck more water from the tap? 🤔🤔
BulkReefSupplyCom sold! Hope there’s a Black Friday sale on those pumps 🤔😂😉
Looks like after installing the pressure switch, it keeps turning off once the pressure is reached and after the pressure starts going down because the pump is off it kicks it on again and then it's just a game of on and off, what do I do?
We would try adjusting the trigger point on your pressure switch. You can do this with a small allen wrench. This could help make sure the pump stays off. If this does not help we would check the float to ensure its not letting water pressure out.
I tried adjusting it and it didnt stop doing that, and I even tried adding a shutoff valve to completely block the water, but it did the same thing. As soon as the pump shit off the pressure started reducing and then it clicked on again. Maybe its releasing the pressure from the waste line side?
My input water tds is 50, output water tds is 37,
I have adjusted all settings of tds controller but it changes only 10-15% of output value.
Means output high is 47 and lower is 37, after setting the tds controller at extreme settings.
.
Please guide me what is the problem
I have new membrane installed 2 months ago.
This readings are from day first of membrane installation.
Input water 50 TDs it's good to drink
Why do you use ro ?
How much is your target TDs of output
What about waste water? I live in California and would be very interested to know which pressure produces the least wasteful ratio of waste water to product water.
BulkReefSupplyCom Thanks for the suggestion, but I am aware of that option. What I'd really like to know is if the PSI alone effects the waste water output?
when will you have more 6 stage 150 gpd water saver plus in Stock
Okay thanks love to get one!
My water comes from a well, the TDS reading is 047ppm and temp is 54.9F roughly Pressure I'm not sure yet till I get RO/DI system. The water is drinkable and not softened or filtered. Will getting 0 TDS be most likely?
0 TDS is always the goal with RODI systems. Starting with a low TDS like 47 TDS will help, for sure. The colder water will hurt a bit, but the pressure is the real number to look at to judge performance, as you saw in this video 🙂
@@BRStv yes the water coming from the well is not filtered or softened and I bought a BRS 75 I'm using it now and I'm getting zero TDS it's awesome and yes definitely the cold water doesn't help because all the lines have condensation and the di resin is almost half way colored after around 30 gallons including the 5 gallons I flush through it. As for pressure it averages from 40 to 60 PSI
@@shaun7611 don't use the di resin when flushing your ro system will burn through the di resin
If I'm getting 0 tds at 42 psi, does that mean I don't need to run a higher pressure for better efficiency?
Mine runs at 34psi and I still get 0 TDS, but yea it may take a little while to produce water...
My RO system constantly changes pressure from 45 to 70 psi (mostly at 45), why is that?
Typically fluctuating pressures come from water being used in other parts of the house/apartment/building, much like some people experience in the shower when another family member flushes the toilet. LOL! However, if this is happening (say in the middle of the night when there is a far less likely chance of people using the water), I would look at when your sediment filter was last changed or a valve within the system needing replaced. You can always give us a call to help you trouble shoot! 763-432-9691
I just changed out all my filters. replaced the DI resin. And I'm getting at least 90% product water. And my wastewater is only dripping out, with a zero TDS.
why is my waste water so low? I have a video on my channel ABREEZEDUCTTESTING good news /bad news. thanks BRS
75 gpd membrane wich frt is better sir 450 ml or 550 ml
Yours 75 gpd pump open flow rate sir
How can I get 50 psi or above. I’m having trouble getting 20 psi from my home tap please help 😡
First, make sure that your flush valve is in the "closed" position when you're making water. If you're still having issues, a booster pump is the best way to go.
www.bulkreefsupply.com/1-4-aquatec-8800-booster-pump-kit-bundle.html
Note to self: order booster pump
Bro my bore well TDS is 3000 after filtration its 700 tds i am using dow membrane
😳
@@BRStv i found issue yesterday !
First i check TDS right after membrane which was around 300 then i check after post filter which is 700 some times 1000 i noticed there was two post carbon filters one of them is causing this problem so removed one now i left with one post carbon filter tds is now 280 to 305 water taste is good now
LOL, 130 TDS, lucky BRS lives in the land of 10,000 Lakes. I live in Texas (DFW) where the LOWEST TDS I've seen is 250 with a high of 450 and lately with a lot of rain in 2016 and the lakes full about 300. *Your mileage may vary* :) BTW I've implemented the booster pump and dual Dow RO membranes run at 90 PSI (my local supply was about 40......on a good day) I can get 240 gallons a day and my waste water is down 80 % from pre booster pump use........no, really. Again, remember *Your mileage may vary*. I forgot to mention, I use BRS DI resin and my water comes out at 0 TDS.
I love these rodi systems but don't want to waste that much water
That's a fair consideration. You can always add a second membrane to cut the waste water down by half. Here is a video with more info on that setup if you're interested.
ruclips.net/video/y3Jw5dTBP0I/видео.html
@@BRStv ok thanks Ryan I will order that one, love all the videos, say hi to randy for me please
Why you not producing 0 TDS then?
too bad u guys dun ship to other countries
Please stop shouting, and pause every once in awhile and break up your sentences oh, I got exhausted just listening to you talk. PS thanks for the great info.
This was 7 years ago, and he has calmed down a bit since then. 😊
I have a RO/DI unit, which I occasionally back flush and replace the cartridges. It's rated at 100 gallons per day, and right now I'm getting 92 PPM TDS rejection water, and 0 PPM product water. The chlorinated well water coming out of the tap is 82 PPM.