In Season 2, we saw him personally carry Jaehaerys to the council. It could've been the nurses who carried the child, but he did. He tried being a better father to his heir than his father did to him. You can see the look of adoration in his eyes when Jaehaerys is annoying Tyland. And when Otto suggested to parade the Jaehaerys, he said "I will not have my little son paraded around", he even *begged* Alicent to intervene yet the latter did nothing. His actions are guided by a father who wanted revenge. Edit* wrong name.
I always saw the Greens as being the duty-over-love types (whereas the Blacks are more of a love-over-duty), and this episode was the great example of this love-duty dichotomy and how destructive it might be. All the Greens did was out of the sense of duty and went to such great sacrifices of personal desires for the perceived sake of the Realm that they have no love for each other. Otto doesn't want to lend his ear to his daughter when she wants to get something off her chest, Alicent doesn't comfort her son who'd just lost his child and choses to leave him alone in his grief, Aegon never visits his wife to process their loss together, and so on. They do stay together (or used to) out of loyalty to the faction but they don't have love for each other - it was poisoned by the duty
They do love each other. Every actor on team green and Ryan (producer) talk about the love and loyalty they share. The problem is that they are a dysfunctional family and carry generational trauma and lack the tools in order to fix these issues. They don't know how to show their affection nor how to reach each other
Aemond respounding to Otto with "My only duty is to my King & my House"😬😬😬 Let's see how their vision of what duty means lead them to destroy themselves as Otto and Alicent do not belong to that house...
Otto's problem is that he clings to a Westeros that no longer exists, that of Jaehaerys I the conciliator. He desperately looked for that conciliator in Viserys I, in Rhaenyra, he may have briefly looked for it in Daemon (in this one he found the opposite) and eventually in Aegon. I didn't see that this new Jaehaerys was not there and I didn't have anyone like him, being born in a time of peace and living long enough to see a terrible war is hard, not being able to avoid it too and see your family suffer the same.
@@amorojaz27 but that didn’t happen right? Daemon was there to influence her all her life. It’s like saying ‘Trump would’ve been a good president if he wasn’t raised as a wealthy racist’. Rhaenyra without Daemon literally doesn’t exist, so she always was going to be a bad queen.
@amorojaz27 Nah that's making things worse. Daemons whole issue is he can't reconcile intimacy with vulnerability. He can really only "comfortably" test love by people going out on limbs for him or letting him get away with shit. If Viscerys brought down the hammer for real he'd flip out that his brother betrayed him and hates him now.
One thing that might be semi-related to this and has bothered me for a long time is that Why did GRRM and the fans gave Rhaegar Targaryen so much leniency (even praises) for something that Rhaenyra and Robb Stark are condemned for? Like Robb got blamed for the red wedding because “he couldn’t keep it in his pants” and didn’t honor the marriage pact with House Frey. Or Rhaenyra getting blamed for Dance of the Dragons because she gave birth to bastard boys which tarnished her legitimacy a great deal compared to the greens. But when it’s Rhaegar, people keep praising him that he’s some kind of superhero even though what he did was so much worse than Robb (and might be on the same scale as Rhaenyra). At least Robb felt obligated to marry Jeyne Westerling because he was honor bound to her and didn’t want his kid to be marginalized as a bastard like Jon (not to mention that he was set up by Tywin to meet Jeyne in the first place so there’s no winning for him). Meanwhile, Rhaegar publicly humiliated his own legal wife in a tourney then left said wife and 2 kids in danger while eloping with an impressionable Lyanna Stark because he’s horny and obsessed with the self-absorbed prophecy. The only reason that I can think of that made people praise Rhaegar was that he’s Jon’s father. They didn’t praise Rhaegar for himself. They only praise him because Jon is a good person and the reason he’s good is not because of Rhaegar. It’s because of Ned.
Rhaegar is truly a descend of Viserys. Both destroyed the whole kingdom for pursuing some stupid prophecy. Rhaenyra is also following this path and thinks she is the chosen one from her ancestors to save seven kingdoms. Daemon is a jerk but he is the only one among them that doesn't believe such things.
@@Loki-g3k no, Rhaenyra doesn't think she's the chosen one. It's a big reason why she hesitates so much and is debating what to do for so long. She even basically tells it to Daemon before he chokes her. In her mind the prophecy said the kingdom needs to be united under a Targaryen ruler and she's questioning if it would be fine if it was Aegon. It's why she doesn't want to declare war immediately and is debating what to do and tells Otto she will think about accepting Aegons claim. She turns after Aemond murders her son, which I think is fair.
Because he's a fairy tale they fell for. Everytime we hear of him it's almost always a romanticized ideal of the coolest smartest guy ever except in the words of Bobby who is purposefully everything Rhaegar wasn't, his story a tragedy of what we lost out on. It's bullshit but that's the point. Robb and Rhaenyra are happening real time, we had a personal lens of them fucking up.
Otto getting mad when he wanted westerling to kill Rhaenyra and hung a bunch of rich nobles in front of the gates while crying about Aegon should respect Viserys when….Viserys never gave a shit about Alicents kids lol.
If S2 E2 taught me anything, it's Otto's intentions towards male primogeniture for the realm's stability is purely authentic. If Otto was given complete authority over westeros, I genuinely believe he'd run it better than anyone who ever governed the iron throne.
Yet he urged to have Rhaenyra named heir. He went out his way to overthrow the rule of male primogeniture because he didn’t like Daemon, as soon as Aegon was born he was riding behind male primogeniture once again. He’s actually very fluid when it comes to this kind of thing. Women are allowed to be named heir, as long as Otto hates the contesting male.
@J_ads2000 I'm not going to argue the blatantly obvious with you that Daemond is completely unhinged and unpredictable and would cause harm to the realm. Having Rhaenyra named heir was a stopgap measure as everyone knew Viserys would remarry and possibly have a son, which literally everyone expected to be named heir when he came of age. If you're a filthy *BLACK* take your delusional self elsewhere, this is a channel where we Greens congregate.
The most thoughtful analysis I’ve seen about Alicent’s guilt this episode. As a religious person myself growing up I could identify the unease she felt in that moment. She’s such a relatable and tragic character.
This family is just so tragic. No one knows how to share their grief and pain and it all started because of otto. The trauma he caused to alicent is now reflected in her kids. Aegon and haelena can't go to her to share their pain and alicent can't be with them because she can't handle it. Same with aemond. This family doesn't know how to be with each other and handle their emotions. Otto has taught them only to supress it and do what is needed to be done. Aegon was in pain and not once otto thought to be there and listen. Instead all he did was belittle aegon. Not that he was wrong as aegon did make some stupid decision but still atleast have some sympathy. I want Alicent to stand up for her kids somewhere in the show later. The only part i dislike is alicole. There is zero development in their relationship. They don't even talk. Atleast make them have a conversation so we can understand their mindset. Its all sex scenes at the end of the episode to throw off the viewers. Atleast do something meaningful with them. they aren't doing it.
Alicent being disconnected from her children makes sense when you consider they were all conceived through martial rape by a man that was older enough to be her father before she was even 25. Alicent didn’t want the marriage and was pressured into it thus everything that came as a result was non-consensual. So she holds resentment towards her kids conception. On top of that Argon is a rapist, who she previously disowned as a son. I wish the show would have tried to address that trauma more clearly in the script back in S1.
@@9xprincess she loves them above everything but the thing is the she didn't get a say in the way they were conceived. It's not good memory for her. Otto and viserys never gave her one good memory. And Otto never allowed her to open up about anything. All she knows is how to suppress her emotions and feel guilty. This reason is why she can't be with her kids the way she should be. People expect her to have a healthy relationship with them when the cycle hasn't been broken and definitely won't. The greens are a perfect example of generational trauma and what happens when it's not broken. It's all because of Otto. He might be a good politician but god did he fuck up his whole family and now can't handle them not able to handle their emotions.
Aemonds absence in the aftermath of Jaeharys is not unusual. Alicent and Otto view what he did to Lucerys as a huge mistake and have shunned him since.
Man, this show holds no punches! With regards to Aemond, I think he serves the role of the archetypal eldest sibling. He is the surrogate responsibility figure for his dysfunctional family. He has to always put on a strong front because they all depend on him but he can't depend on them.
If the leaks for episode 3-4 are true, i think your idea of Aemond as the "dutifuly men loyal to his family" is gonna be crashing badly i'm afraid. They are building him up as the true main villain of the entire saga
Liked the variety of reactions in the family. Especially Aegon being given more sympathetic moments his actor is doing great.Otto's as well because I like to think he does care but he's just dealing with it by putting a positive political spin on this tragedy.
I agree with you, and I personally have always thought that Otto cares. In his own... distant and reserved way. Everyone compares him to Tywin, but I think they are 2 sides of the same coin rather than the same. Tywin likely didn't love his wife. His responses following her death and insults, TO ME, reek of a man who can't stand even the slightest insult against himself. Even if it's towards his children, grandchildren, or wife, it's not because he loves them but because it reflects badly upon him. Then there's Otto, who is largely the perfect Westrosi politician, who upon Daemon making a single nasty joke of his dead wife stood up and looked ready to smack the Valeryen blood out of Daemons face. Viserys had to intervene, and you could see his eyes and blood boiling. Based on how he acts with Alicent and his grandchildren, he likely has a big heart, but the unhealthy responsibility of a dutiful politician. When episode 2 came out and he suggested the funeral at first, I thought, damn could the guy at least grieve a LITTLE!?!? But then I thought about his relationship with Alicent, his wife's death, and how the writers treat his hidden pain, I think he truly was, on some level, broken by Prince Jeherys death.
Yeah Tom did not come to play this season and I'm living for it. I don't see Otto as a villain like most people do either, and he unironically would have done a lot of good for his family if he hadn't been trying to marry them into a family as kooky as the Targaryens.
@HillsAliveYT yeah... but at the same time, he kinda just... WAS the best at ruling. He served the great gigachad Jaeherys, then did everything to keep the realm afloat INSPITE of Viserys, and he would have been a great councilor/hand for Aeg if it were peace time. War makes monsters of us all, and especially the young and inexperienced. Aegon (I think) had everything in him to be a better king than Viserys, and Otto would have shaped him to be better. However... they are at war, and lives are in danger, and Aegon doesn't think Otto can polotic his way out of conflict. Kinda sad to see the many "could have beens" in HOTD
I hate Otto more than I ever did because now I can see clearly that HE CARES! He cares for the kingdom for real and he cared about Viserys. Rhys Ifans is such a great actor, someone gives this man an Emmy!!!! I really like how this season is taking a more human approach to the Greens. They are not as obliviously villains and the Blacks are not the heroes, we are just seeing people crumbling under the consequences of their ambitions and actions.
@@rektz2457 buddy, are you here to make misogynistic comments on a RUclips channel run by a woman? Rhaenyra wouldn't have been a bad ruler because she's a woman. She was an idiot who thought gaslighting everyone with a working pair of eyes would hide her sons' heritage. That's why she would have been a bad ruler. Keep in mind, a lot of men do what she does, and no one calls them on it. Does that make it ok for her to do it? No. And Daemon is a man who would make a terrible king.
I can't see how on Earth the blacks are the heroes. Rhaenyra repeatedly destabilized the realm for the pettiest of reasons, the Velaryons are either cucks or dead because the blacks murdered them for spitting facts, and Daemon is the single most destructive character in the whole show. I genuinely like Alicent and even that neurotic fuck Christon because, unlike Targs, they were raised with the understanding that they aren't above the law. They tried and failed to pass that on to the green kids, but goddammit, they tried. And whenever they do something awful, they feel real GUILT over it. Team black on the other hand are narcies, they'll commit any evil in order to get their way, they feel they have a right to do this because they're superior in their minds, and anyone who tries to hold them accountable is murdered without remorse.
@@rektz2457 there are no heroes or villains, that's the point of the story. And there's nothing wrong with women being in charge, the men don't like the idea and Rhaenyra was not a good choice for queen, not because she was a woman, she was just not right for the job.
@@B463L sorry, I forgot the "aren't" there 😂 I mean, neither of them are really heroes nor villains, that's kinda the point of Martin's stories, the show just tried in season 1 to show the greens as villains and the blacks as heroes but that goes against Martin's intention and I think this season is doing a better job showing that they are just people, not heroes, not villains, just people (and they need therapy, but that's another discussion 😂)
I loved this break down and everything you said about Otto and Alicent is spot on! I have to disagree a little about Aemond, though. He is very clearly shaken by the death of his nephew, thats what led him to the Street of Silk in the first place. The fact that a handsome young prince has taken an middle aged whore as his bed partner and concubine is pretty telling. Aemond deeply desires a connection with his mother who his emotionally incapable of that connection, so he tries to replicate that when he needs comfort. This was one of the saddest scenes so far, tbh. Especially if youre a book reader, because then you certainly know how violently Aemond does indeed react to Jaehaerys' death. 😢
I mean in the book haelena went to visit alicent with her kids, by then the guard had been killed and alicent was restrained, when they told haelena what was gonna happen she begged them to kill her instead of her children, but cheese told her that she either pick which of her sons dies or blood will get bored and rape her daughter, she choose her youngest son, and to mock her cheese told her youngest son that his mother wants him to die then they decapitated her eldest son, she was left screaming at the loss of her child and she couldn't be around her youngest son because of cheese words
Otto was responsible more than Viserys. Yes Viserys named a female heir, but he did that on Otto's suggestion, because he didn’t want Daemon named hier. They could have annulled Daemons marriage to Lady Rhea, married him to Rhaenyra and then name them heirs as King and queen, that would have prevented the war. Or Otto could have supported Viserys marrying Laena which would have been more stable. But he could absolutely have worked to get Viserys to more forcefully ensure the Lords supported Rhaenyra instead of plotting behind the scenes to elevate Aegon as soon as Viserys died. Without Otto's support there would have been a Great council to solve the succession and also a war wouldn't have happened. Yes Viserys made the situation bad, but Otto put it into effect.
@@WillyYalad-ep7gv Otto hated Daemon probably because he couldn’t manipulate him. Would Daemon have been a great king, probably not. But He wouldn’t have started a civil war. Plus he would have hated mundane stuff and Rhaenyra would likely handle the day to day. But what I was saying is, that if he married them and named Dameon heir that is something that everyone would accept precedence wise. If Daemon was not exiled then he would be around and likely work to prevent Viserys remarrying. And after He and Rhaenyra had children then even if Viserys married that child could be married to Aegon. And married to Daemon, those would be silver-blond children. I am just saying that there are a bunch of ways the war could have been prevented. But seriously the main way was Otto not being in the background in a conspiracy to crown Aegon. Just Rhaenyra not leaving Kingslanding and taking up residence on Dragonstone.
@@movieloverfan18The problem, man, is that Daemon was the first reason for Viserys to choose Rae as his heir, it makes no sense for him to marry them. Also, I don't think Otto despises Daemon just because of his lack of control but because of his behavior, maybe he is a good warrior, but I really don't think he would have been a good king. And finally I agree with you on the bad move that was moving to Dragonstone.
I think with Otto it's not just about the times Viserys didn't listen to him it's about the time he did. If Viserys hadn't changed the succession in favour of Rhaenyra. Aegon would likely be the unquestioned king (and probably better prepared for that role); Jaehaerys would still be alive and there would be every reason to expect continued peace. If Otto allows himself to be too self aware about his relationship with Viserys and what it led to, the responsibility might be too much to bear.
You know, while Alicent could do better than Criston Cole, she could and has done worse(cough...Viserys... cough). And as the most recent episode proves, Rhaenyra has done worse too(cough...Daemon...cough).
While I love the psychological analysis of the greens isolating themselves in the face of grief I can’t shake the feeling that the writers didn’t gave them scenes together so they’re less sympathetic. Aegon and Helaena’s actors said they had to fight for their meager scenes together.
... If the writers wanted the Greens to be less sympathetic they would not have cut Aegon II making a feast to celebrate Lucerys death, made Aemond killing Lucerys by accident, changing that Lucerys only took Aemond's eyes because Aemond was trying to kill Jacaerys after attacking a 3 years old Joffrey without any good reason, they wouldn't had changed Alicent from a older and ambitious prude woman to an young woman being manipulated into a situation she didn't wanted and feeling betrayed, nor should had made Viserys an absent father to Aegon, Aemond and Helaena
@@twoc.c1468 i think you are confusing sympathy for lack of agency. those actions (the biggest example being aemond killing lucerys on accident) don’t make him more sympathetic they just strip him of his agency. they make the story bland. the greens are not sympathetic because they’re good or victims of circumstances they’re supposed to be sympathetic because they fight tooth and nail for their family. taking both their familiar bond and their will to action is a disservice to the characters, the story and the audience.
@@Valentinianist of course they're making the Greens more sympathetic, They're taking out the reason people despises this characters and making them victims/misunderstood, they're making them the underdogs. The Greens are a bunch of sel-rightous, hypocrites assholes in the books, in the series they're a broken family.
think the reason aemond doesnt share any feelings with his family is because he deduced how they would react, or not react, most likely, in a comforting way or offer any kind of solace. also the reason he didnt mention jahaerys was because with him in the picture he had no chance of getting the throne, which doesnt mean he hated him but likely avoided/acted like he didnt exist so there was no emotional impact, considering the no love lost between him and aegon or the aparently colder realtionship he has now with his sister. he mightve also realised that with that murder war was a certainty and an eventual battle to the death between him and daemon is all but inevitable, so it was a sort of last tumble before the death soldier style.
You might be right on the underlying psychological reasons why Aegon reacted the way he did, seeing Jahaerys as an extension of his own turmoil. However, I think that is the only reason he could care about the child in any way, as an extension of himself. He could not give a pigeon's crap about either of his children or family members from the time he was a teenager.
Wow. I completely missed the missing mention of Jarharys in the wild Aemond/ Sylvie interaction. I might have been distracted by the wild Targaryen-ness of the naked fetal position presented. Great video❤
What a delightful and fascinatingly messy family! I feel like it's hard to connect with the blacks because they seem kind of undeveloped and inconsistent at this point compared to the nuanced, fun, messy greens 😅 We've been told so many times Rhae and her supporters are the good guys, but half of them feel like complete strangers to me, and at best they're less fun to watch!
I agree wholeheartedly however I appreciate the greens for being openly disconnected with each other unlike the blacks who are similar but the writing makes them act like an “family” and having a lot of issues amongst themselves because they are actually interesting and very compelling. The fandom has reached a level of insanity and weirdness. It’s not that serious and these are paid actors playing fictional characters.
Yes, poor Fabien! LOL I like Ser Criston more than ever and I'm a complete trash goblin so that presumably translates to a bunch of unhinged a-holes harassing him even more on social media.
He does care about the people, for instance when Rhaenys appears with her dragon, Otto commanded to open the gates so the people could ran away,(there are other examples throughout the series) I think Otto has an obsession for control. The fact that he was a second son might have to do with that desire. He is a good hand because he managed to keep the realm at peace for decades but he also has pride and thinks he's better than the rest. That's why he wants to rule through other people, kings who have no character who let him do what he wants.
Even though it frustrates me to see how all of the Hightowers act towards each other, it really does make realistic sense as there are families like this and that is how the generational trauma gets passed down.
And black supporters will use this emotional stuntedness & perceived guilt (esp Aliscents) to justify their moral high ground, entirely writing them all (except Helaena, at least) as guilty for Daemons crime.
Did the greens think the blacks wouldn’t seek justice for killing Luke? Everyone is to blame but this war is about two half’s seeking a balance. Jaehaerys death was a score to level the playing field. Everyone who helped create and continue the divide between the two halves of the family are at a fault. They manufactured these divides, conflicts and deaths.
@J_ads2000 The Blacks should've sought justice against adults, not a literal child. What they did was not just. It was wanton murder. No-one but Daemon is responsible for B&C😊
@@MI-vc9lp This. Loathe as I am to say it, Aegon actually hadn't done anything to Rhaenyra to merit his baby being murdered. And Helaena definitely didn't do anything to Rhaenyra. And Jaeherys absolutely did nothing to deserve getting his head sawn off in his bed. Aemond was the only guilty one who deserved punishment, but Daemon didn't have the brains to hire men who could threaten Aemond's life or the guts to deal with Aemond himself. And for this, a toddler was butchered in front of his mother.
@@J_ads2000 you do realize that a literal toddler was killed right? Settling scores doesn’t justify any such thing. And your callousness just proves my original point.
@@J_ads2000 What they didn't think was that they would kill an innocent 6-year-old child, who had not harmed anyone. It's sickening, these people justifying the murder of a child.
I wonder if the show will ever acknowledge that House Hightower has essentially decided to sacrifice Otto and all of his descendants in order to destroy the dragons. I think Otto knows this and it's horrible to imagine how he copes with this.
Could you make a video about Daemon's alleged skills as a warrior? The Blood and Cheese incident makes me wonder if he's really the great warrior he's cracked up to be.
I want this video as well. We never saw Daemon go up against a skilled warrior one on one in a life or death situation. Where he has to show pure skill without help or back up.
Daemon better be a skilled warrior in this version because if he's not then my favorite scene in fire and blood (the battle over the god's eye) will be ruined
Aegon, Aemond and Helaena are NOT Hightowers they are Targaryens. Nobody calls Rhaenyra an Arryn so why should Viserys' other children be called by their mother's house name instead of their own
Because it has to do with how they were raised, not by their blood. Aegon, Helaena, and Aemond (poor Daeron doesn't exist) were primarily raised by their mother while their father was absent and only cared about Rhaenyra. They were raised by their mother and grandfather's values and culture. In the eyes of society that makes them more Hightower.
@@starlight23-dj9jh Cause Ned even being raised by an Arryn is an archetypical Stark who follows the North traditions and culture and so the northerners recognize him.
Its an interesting dynamic with the Green faction. And while yes Otto made moves to secure his family on the throne, he definitely wasn't sugar coating the warning to Allicent that if Rhaenyra came to power she would kill her children for being obstructions to her legitimacy to the throne. In the Game of Thrones world, I don't think you can survive being kind, virtuous and naïve without playing the game by its rules. Otto like Tywin I think understood the game but didn't account for rogue variables from his grandkids IE Aemond/Vhagar killing Luke or Aegon going on a murder spree with the rat catchers after he got all the sympathy points from the public. I like Otto in some aspects, just like Tywin the dude will go to extreme lengths to get his family on top, but his flaw of overlooking his kid and grandkids traumas or shortcomings burns his plans to the ground.
Their colors are Hightower, their faith is Hightower's one, the core of their support is Hightower influence against the more Targaryen allign houses siding with Rhaenyra (with the sole exception being Baratheon because of a marriage proposal).
@@twoc.c1468 their color i show is different than in books doesn't change the fact they are legitimate Targaryens, Aegon Aemond and Helaean do not follow faith of the seven no Targaryen does they only tolerate it .They siding with Rhaenyra because Viserys told them to kneel and swear but some lords died in meantime and some sons do not want woman as their queen they do not sode with her because she is more Targaryen than Aegon. Rhaenyra is also not pure Targaryen if we are specifical
@@queenxx1690 Color i was talking about the color of their banners, not physical appaerance. Their primary color is... Green, the Hightower color, not Red who is the other Targaryen color. The Red Keep is covered on the Faith symbols and culture and everything we know points for the Green following this Faith (They can be no-praticants, but none of them follows the Valyrian gods, can you see any member of the Greens having a Valyrian marriage?) And do you know what is funny? 4 Great Houses followed Rhaenyra (Stark, Tully, Arryn and Greyjoy), against 2 following Aegon II (Baratheon and Lannister), Rhaenyra had way more support from the kingdom even being a woman and many of this lords weren't the ones who made the oath. Tully is the best example of this, it was a new generation following Rhaenyra and being Essentials to the war
@@twoc.c1468 show try potray them as Hightowers they are not ! In books Aegon has black banner with golden dragon to honor his dragon not some green shirt only Alicent and his court wear this color not Aegon himself.Rhaenyra banner in books is also not simply Targaryen one in book it is mixed with Velaeyons and Arryns since she is 1/4 Arryn idk why you are trying to proove here they are not Hightower this father was Viserys Targaryen and seed is strong.Aegon has more claim than Rhaenyra anyway no matter what they say in show all she have is her daddy words even Condal said so and he is team black.Bye
I can't really agree with the assertion that Otto having more control would have prevented the Dance from escalating. Any option that doesn't end with Daemon on the throne or married to Rhaenyra with her ob the throne would have seen Daemon rebel. Otto would do anything to prevent Daemon from having power.
I don't think Daemon would've rebeled against Rhaenyra as queen regardless if he was married to her or not. He's a menace and a psycho but he always cared about his brother and Rhaenyra.
Disagree. He'd definitely hurt Rhaenyra if he had the chance. The show whitewashed him but in the books he doesn't really care for his niece and is using her for power. Although to be honest, he even groomed her in the show as well so it's not a good look for him.
I think cole also was conveniently absent from both gaurding the royal family from assassin's at night and gaurding the royal children the night aemond lost his eye.
Ever since the night the Aemond lost his eye and Alicent , Rheanyra, Daemon and Cole were nowhere to be found, I have been thinking that Alicent and Cole were getting it on. We were shown what Rheanyra and Daemons were up to but we never knew what Alicent was up to. She acted so out of character when she went after Lucerys and Rheanyra. I’m thinking in hindsight that it was her guilt that she was getting it on with Cole while Aemond lost his eye.
Tywin was definitely not the great political player people make him out to be. He was an idiot who whenever he didn't get his way would resort to unnecessary violence.
I could have accepted guilt was the reason Alicent didnt comfort Aegon if she didnt immediately go sleep with Cole. I cant say I blame Aemond, who used to worship the ground his mother walks on, resents her.
But again, that's her stunted way of coping with trauma. She just doesn't know how to deal with it. It's not surprising that she would use sex to deal with her emotions.
@@twoc.c1468Alicent behaves like 90% of the medieval women behaved. Why are u asking a medieval woman to be a feminist? Rhaenyra is the exception not the rule
Otto is to blame for all this pain because he is the one that started this whole thing. Viserys made his wishes clear from the start. Rhaenyra was his heir. He did not change his mind but tto manouvred to manipulate the political spectrum and helped steal the throne. So he is to Blame
It's Viserys fault as well because instead of taking the time to change the laws and make them official, he just says that Rhaenyra is his heir but makes no attempt to do anything about it. It's all just by his word which isn't enough. Just because he's the King doesn't mean he can change literally THOUSANDS of years of laws all willy nilly. You need to make things official with the support of the council. Which again, he never did. He caused a serious succession crisis.
Anyone think the series will have Aegon kill Criston for sleeping with Alicent instead of doing his job and guarding the queen and children? That, or Aemond will and lie saying the blacks did.
Aemond ain’t the most loyal of the greens stop trying down play daeron to me aemond this episode made me mad cause he didn’t care about his own nephew but cried about the strong boy
Daeron did more for his brother than what aemond did but for some reason he’s liked and the favorite of Otto wich is bs honestly cause he didn’t give a care about aegon frl he wanted to rule honestly my opinion
Both boys are his nephews, except he directly participated in killing one and they lived together as children. Aemond also knows the assassins were sent for him because of what he did to Luce. Him saying he regrets it is basically him acknowledging his actions caused the death of both of his nephews. Tho Aegon partying and having 0 FS to give over the death of his nephew even though they basically grew up together for the better part of their childhoods is more disturbing to me.
If only Rhaenys had been queen instead of Viserys and if only he hadn’t married aemma so young (at least in the books) the dynasty could have been strong
I hate Otto, but he is 100% right this episode. He is the MVP Of this season so far. His reaction when Aegon mentioned Criston Cole had done something is pure gold. Give him an Emmy just for that.
Amazing how you make the analisis saludos desde Argentina i wanna say that how you pointed out the important of a Dorne (Hispanic persone) be in the court was something that not other people talk about and play the stereotypes of our people i would like if a part of Dornish caracters come to join the green side, so not only have one commander but more hispanos in the show but now the military campaing is going to be inspired of the war that Hannibal Barca, fougth against Rome that seems inspired oldtow and hightowers the origins of the faith of the seven but the 3 Criston Aegon and Eadmon are a paralel of Hannibal Mago Barca Asdrubal the brothers and Maharbal the lions of Cartage like a great guerrilla tactic gonna be rook rest with a little of Comandante Che Guevara here in Latinoamerica. I see that the blacks are more desorganiced that the greens and that its going to pop out in their faces in Rook rest wichs is their Cannas the greates battle of Hannibal a great comandante is going to deliber and now we are on the way, muchas gracias por los videos is very educational in my view
@@twoc.c1468 Hey thanks sorry that just see this, i wanna support what i say in this of course there is a hate against the reach and that Oldtown (Rome), but like in real life many of hispania (name that comes after the phoenician origin mean land of rabbits) like Trojan the Emperator that was one of the best if not the best of Rome, and many legions that were from there take place like in the invasion of the british island. In that middle age comes this inspiration that Dorne is out of the westeros, Europe for the 200 years before the show is the Caliphate of Cordoba capital City that is in the south of the peninsula like sunspear. that is the paralel and the vikings the targaryen like we see have good relations with East of Europe even in the bizantine era from constantinople have good relations with Cordoba and great constructions make with materials from them, even tho there where wars against vikings but that is why the scorpions where invented in Dorne in the battle off sevilla and lisboa the vikings won and the lost in cordoba just like in the book is where a dragon of the sister wife die. i think that and of course in every part that a Hispanic when even fighing like Jose de Mirdanda and took a group of Latinos with him one of the libertadores fought for the Tzar Ekaterina the great fought for her, like Hannibal Barca who send 20000 and send them to Carthage to have a more mixed people that way many latinos actors can play and blend in like a middle east person in differents shows i see that can apport. like the man who was talking in the Bar to who the expositions were made
I'm pro Green, and Alicent going immediately to sleep with Cole after walking away from Aegon really rubbed me the wrong way. If she truly was guilty over poor baby Jahaerys she would immediately have ended things with Cole. I used to think Alicent without a doubt loves her children, but now I'm starting to wonder.
I was with you other than you saying that the Dance never would've happened if "only Visaerys had followed Otto's advice". Otto's advice, riddled with selfish ambition, is what directly led to the Dance of the Dragons. Disinheriting Daemon to begin with (like Otto wanted) is what reopened the issue of the succession at all.
Viserys disinherited Daemon because of what he said about Baelon. And Otto's advice would've worked if Rhaenyra was disinherited and Viserys was an emotionally present father
@@MI-vc9lp yes, because of what he said in the tavern... AFTER Otto lobbied time and time again for Daemon to be disinherited. The precedent set at the great council was that the heir should always be the closest male. Otto because of his dislike for Daemon (deserved or otherwise) wanted that changed and took every effort possible to put distance between Daemon and Visaerys. Without that, it is both unlikely that the relationship between the brothers would've deteriorated to the point that it did (included Daemon's effed up comment in the tavern) NOR would the succession have come into question. The Dance of the Dragons ultimately comes down to Visaerys' decision to overturn the precedent set by the Great Council, full stop. That doesn't happen if Otto doesn't push for that. And THEN Otto, after maneuvering for his own gain and ambition sought to disinherit Rhaenyra after scheming to put his daughter in Visaerys' bed. Otto's advice was not good, impartial advice that would've saved the realm "if only Visaerys would have listened"
@@MI-vc9lp and for the record, I think Hill's Alive makes great content that I often disagree with, but appreciate the perspective. Fire & Blood has a heavy bias against the Blacks, as does Hills. The show has a bias against the Greens, which I think colors the commentary a bit. That's just my opinion.
@@raidennc Correct, I Like Hill's videos but the Greens could drown a thousand babies secretly and we'd get a detailed and interesting analysis but right at the end it'd still be the Black's fault somehow lol
In the show, he went behind her back and forced a c-seciton on her without her consent. So yes, he essentially killed her. Hills Alive has made a video on this topic as well.
Pero por q actuan como si solo daemon fuera malo aqui en la serie nadie es bueno la unica persona buena es helena nunca entendere por q rhaenyra y viserys no confían en daemon pero sin confiaron en Otto y alicent y q les llevó eso a q le quitaron el trono y daemon aún sigue ahi con ella apoyandola 🤷 Ahora solo por q paso lo de blood y chese se le olvida q otto queria mandar a matar a rhaenyra y sus hijos Alicent es una hipócrita tanto q critico a rhaenyra por acostarse con otros hombre ella esta aciendo lo mimso Aegon solo por q mostraton q queria a su hijo se les olvido q es un violador q tiene hijos bastardos q pelean en las calle y aemond solo por q supuestamente fue sin querer mato a luke y aun asi luke era un chico pequeño tambien pero todo eso se les olvida nadie dice q daemon es perfecto pero en la serie nadie lo es todos cometen errores 🤷
Damon es Malo, la primer escena te demuestra que el comete abuso policial dónde mata a civiles inocentes junto a culpables, es X eso que Otto no lo quiere( la misma razón xla que se enoja con Aegon al matar civiles para poder matar al asesino de su hijos. Vos confiarías en alguien q ama la violencia? En vez de confiar a la mano que aconsejo eficazmente a tu antecesor? Daemon la apoya, pero sigue creyendo q el es merecedor del trono, la escena de la pelea te lo indica. A nadie se le olvida q Aegon es un violador, pero una persona mala también puede amar a sus hijos y sentir furia cuando se los quitan. Es un personaje gris
@@starlight23-dj9jh nadie dice q daemon es un santo si mato gente mala q cometía crimenes quien dice q eran inocentes lo dice Otto y es es verdad por q el lo dice al igual paso q Otto dice q el ollo q daemon dijo el heredero por un dia y no sabremos si es verdad o no pero el estupido de viserys le creyó 🤷😅 si daemon quisiera el trono ubiese matado a viserys o rhaenyra si el quisiera el lo q siempre a querido es la confianza de viserys si a echo cosas malas pero lo q quiere es q su familia esté en el trono Otto no es un santo el comenzó todo si el ubiese sido una buena mano no ubiese enviado a alicent con viserys y ubiera aceptado a rhaenyra y la ubiera ayudado si lo q el quería q su sangre estuviera en el trono se enoja con aegon no por q le importe la gente si no por q eso los ace quedar mal ante la gente quería mandar a matar a rhaenyra y sus hijos en el 1x9 a si q no nadie es inocente aquí, aegon solo por q sufra por su hijo no lo ace bueno por eso aquí en la serie nadie es inocente pero solo sacan lo mal de daemon 🤷 aquí todos los personajes son grices por lo mismo por q acen cosas malas pero en algún momento uno llega a sentir pena por ellos asi q lo q quiero dar a entender q aqui todos acen cosas malas pero q siempre solo sacan lo q ace daemon cuando todos acen cosas malas 🤷
Only on Criston since he is the sworn protector of Alicent but didn't assign a protector for Helaena. In the books they killed Helaena's guard. The writers wanted more drama for the greens
@starlight23-dj9jh Now ask yourself what the practical result of the change is. The answer is that it's simply there to create a new focus of blame, to divert blame away from Daemon and diffuse it onto others. Daemon didn't explicitly order them to murder the kids and it only succeeded anyway because Criston and Alicent were fucking. Other writing decisions have a similar aim: Helaena isn't shown pleading for their lives or going mad with grief afterward, sparing us the sight of an innocent woman being destroyed by Daemon's actions on the excuse that autistic people just have weird reactions to things sometimes. Once you tally this up, it doesn't match at all with "wanting more drama for the greens" but with a purposeful attempt to undercut the emotional impact that the scene ought to have as much as possible, and thereby sparing controversy and moral ambivalence among the audience as much as possible.
Your apparent bias toward the Hightowers and against Rhaenyra and Damon is very surprising. I have no preference for either side, since I hate monarchies as a rule and think all of these people brought the entire situation onto themselves. Ergo, I'm Team Small Folk, and under monarchy the small folk *always* get screwed no matter who is sitting on the throne. To my point however, several statements you made give away this bias; viz "Had Viserys not indulged [Daemon or] Rhaenyra;" that Viserys "Simply bet on the wrong horse;" and should have "heeded Otto's advice." This ignores the fact that while Rhaenyra is self-centered, entitled, and never properly prepared for rule by her father, Aegon is an *actual psychopath.* Not only is he a serial rapist, but he enjoys watching enslaved children-- many of them HIS children-- being forced to fight each other to the death. His brother Aemond is no better, having committed attempted murder against his much younger cousins and remains a perpetual victim when said cousins panicked self-defense resulted in the predictable consequence of his losing an eye. None of these people are qualified to rule a lemonade stand, much less a kingdom, but you framed your entire argument as though the solution to the entire Dance of the Dragons would have been for Rhaenyra to go away quietly and let the Child Rapist Psychopath rule unabated.
It's amazing how someone adapting a story who has a personal bias to one side can manipulate an audience by inserting just _one scene_ into a character's history in his adaptation. All of a sudden, the audience's expectation of a grey-on-grey story with noble heroes on either side switches to instantly rooting for one side in a white-on-black story. It's a very cheap way to get the audience to agree with the screenwriter, and very galling if you know the original material and can see what's being done but others can't and are completely taken in by it.
I kind of agree but the fact of the matter is if she wasnt busy having sex with criston he couldve been there to protect the kid and then she continues to have sex with him after that i dont think its that irrational that she would blame herself alicent is obviously in the wrong especially considering she was so judgemental of rhaenrya in part for the same thing she is doing but yes ultimately she not to blame why do u seem to ignore her wrongdoings but not rhaenrya i dont think neither one is better than the other
@@twoc.c1468 None of them are good, but you know, there is a significant difference when 1) One was an accident, the other was an order. 2) One death was clean and the other literally has a painful decapitation. 3) One was a 4 YEAR OLD boy, the only bad thing he had done was exist, and the other a preteen who got into a fight with the guy who killed him, because, you know, he permanently damaged the man by taking his EYE out of him. There are slight differences between both cases. AND! almost no one (not even among the greens) was happy with Luke's death, because it was a stupid move that will bring more unpleasant consequences, and well because he is a child.
@@WillyYalad-ep7gv 1) Yeah; 2) There is nothing clean in being eaten by a dragon or falling into the sea from the sky, or both. 3) The eye story is way more complex, but i assure you i think Lucerys did nothing wrong. And i hightly doubt anyone on Green side cared about Lucerys life or him being a child, they cared about how his death was a starting point to a dangerous war, but if you take away this treat they would all be celebrating or being neutral about it
@@twoc.c1468lucerys was to blame, since he never apologised and the last chance he had of actually being nice to the person he maimed he laughed at him.The 4 year-old didn't do anything to anyone
@@starlight23-dj9jh In the books Lucerys was defending his brothers from an older children, Aemond was 10 when Luke was 5, who was savagely beating Jacaerys and attacked his 3 years old brother moments before. In the show, he was defending his brother again against an murder attempt. In both versions Aemond lost his eye because of his actions, even in the show that wanted so much to you to side with him
It's all Viserys' fault for naming a female as his heir. The war happened because of him and Rhaenyra. No good will come out with a woman on the iron throne. Only men should sit on the iron throne
That’s why I believe most of team green is just bunch of sexist… Who did advised Viserys to make Rhaenyra his heir? Otto. Hightowers are the reason of Civil war among Viserys children.
Vile woman Alicent, Forced her son to the throne, the writers CHOOSE A VERY VERY CHEAP AND CRAP WAY THE way they made him king, think it's written by woman a LOT THESE Shows, just eye rolling at times and the convo's drag on and on and on , zzzzzzzzz
In Season 2, we saw him personally carry Jaehaerys to the council. It could've been the nurses who carried the child, but he did. He tried being a better father to his heir than his father did to him. You can see the look of adoration in his eyes when Jaehaerys is annoying Tyland. And when Otto suggested to parade the Jaehaerys, he said "I will not have my little son paraded around", he even *begged* Alicent to intervene yet the latter did nothing. His actions are guided by a father who wanted revenge.
Edit* wrong name.
Tyland*
He has no love for his son because he doesn't love his daughter
You mean Tyland right?
@@spiritofarkham1235
Yeah that was a typo
I do wonder how he feels about his little daughter, Jaehaerys twin sister Jaehaera.
I think that Alicent didn’t comfort Aegon because she felt that his and Helaena’s pain was all her fault and she didn’t deserve to comfort him.
I think so too, but the TRAGIC DRAMA of him not knowing that and thinking that his mom just rejected him outright 😭😭😭
Also, she wouldn't know how to do it even if she felt she did deserve it.
And her wanting to talk about her and Criston to Hel when Jaehaerys was just killed?, I know she's a bit like that as a mum, but dude
It’s deeply heartbreaking. Aegon, Helaena and Aemond are struggling with grief.
Agreed, each scene hurt me, especially Helaena.
Aemond sadly showed no grief, instead he was fanboying out over Daemon. I was kind of disappointed when we didn’t get a scene with him grieving
Aemond wasn't, he's now in line to the throne. He liked that Daemon saw him as a threat enough to try to assassinate him.
All because of Viserys being dumb and Rhaenyra a monster
@akchanneltv4084 why? Aemond is a psychopath like Daemon
I always saw the Greens as being the duty-over-love types (whereas the Blacks are more of a love-over-duty), and this episode was the great example of this love-duty dichotomy and how destructive it might be. All the Greens did was out of the sense of duty and went to such great sacrifices of personal desires for the perceived sake of the Realm that they have no love for each other. Otto doesn't want to lend his ear to his daughter when she wants to get something off her chest, Alicent doesn't comfort her son who'd just lost his child and choses to leave him alone in his grief, Aegon never visits his wife to process their loss together, and so on. They do stay together (or used to) out of loyalty to the faction but they don't have love for each other - it was poisoned by the duty
Oh, I really like this take
They do love each other. Every actor on team green and Ryan (producer) talk about the love and loyalty they share. The problem is that they are a dysfunctional family and carry generational trauma and lack the tools in order to fix these issues. They don't know how to show their affection nor how to reach each other
What duty have the Green faction besides Otto and Alicent shown to warrant duty over love.
Aemond respounding to Otto with "My only duty is to my King & my House"😬😬😬 Let's see how their vision of what duty means lead them to destroy themselves as Otto and Alicent do not belong to that house...
@kayveeh exactly. Aegon is a rapist who likes to watch children in fighting pits, let's not forget.
I like how this episode showed both the dysfunction and grief on both fractions. And they both deal and don't deal with it.
Otto's problem is that he clings to a Westeros that no longer exists, that of Jaehaerys I the conciliator. He desperately looked for that conciliator in Viserys I, in Rhaenyra, he may have briefly looked for it in Daemon (in this one he found the opposite) and eventually in Aegon. I didn't see that this new Jaehaerys was not there and I didn't have anyone like him, being born in a time of peace and living long enough to see a terrible war is hard, not being able to avoid it too and see your family suffer the same.
Viserys completely ruin the kingdoms by naming a stupid woman as his heir
@@rektz2457 Rhaenyra would make a good queen, if it wasn't for her uncle's influence.
@@amorojaz27 but that didn’t happen right? Daemon was there to influence her all her life. It’s like saying ‘Trump would’ve been a good president if he wasn’t raised as a wealthy racist’. Rhaenyra without Daemon literally doesn’t exist, so she always was going to be a bad queen.
@@Valentinianist Daemon would be less of a problem if Viserys had the spine to meaningfully punish him.
@amorojaz27 Nah that's making things worse. Daemons whole issue is he can't reconcile intimacy with vulnerability. He can really only "comfortably" test love by people going out on limbs for him or letting him get away with shit. If Viscerys brought down the hammer for real he'd flip out that his brother betrayed him and hates him now.
One thing that might be semi-related to this and has bothered me for a long time is that
Why did GRRM and the fans gave Rhaegar Targaryen so much leniency (even praises) for something that Rhaenyra and Robb Stark are condemned for?
Like Robb got blamed for the red wedding because “he couldn’t keep it in his pants” and didn’t honor the marriage pact with House Frey.
Or Rhaenyra getting blamed for Dance of the Dragons because she gave birth to bastard boys which tarnished her legitimacy a great deal compared to the greens.
But when it’s Rhaegar, people keep praising him that he’s some kind of superhero even though what he did was so much worse than Robb (and might be on the same scale as Rhaenyra). At least Robb felt obligated to marry Jeyne Westerling because he was honor bound to her and didn’t want his kid to be marginalized as a bastard like Jon (not to mention that he was set up by Tywin to meet Jeyne in the first place so there’s no winning for him).
Meanwhile, Rhaegar publicly humiliated his own legal wife in a tourney then left said wife and 2 kids in danger while eloping with an impressionable Lyanna Stark because he’s horny and obsessed with the self-absorbed prophecy. The only reason that I can think of that made people praise Rhaegar was that he’s Jon’s father. They didn’t praise Rhaegar for himself. They only praise him because Jon is a good person and the reason he’s good is not because of Rhaegar. It’s because of Ned.
Rhaegar is truly a descend of Viserys. Both destroyed the whole kingdom for pursuing some stupid prophecy. Rhaenyra is also following this path and thinks she is the chosen one from her ancestors to save seven kingdoms. Daemon is a jerk but he is the only one among them that doesn't believe such things.
@@Loki-g3k no, Rhaenyra doesn't think she's the chosen one. It's a big reason why she hesitates so much and is debating what to do for so long. She even basically tells it to Daemon before he chokes her. In her mind the prophecy said the kingdom needs to be united under a Targaryen ruler and she's questioning if it would be fine if it was Aegon. It's why she doesn't want to declare war immediately and is debating what to do and tells Otto she will think about accepting Aegons claim.
She turns after Aemond murders her son, which I think is fair.
Because he's a fairy tale they fell for. Everytime we hear of him it's almost always a romanticized ideal of the coolest smartest guy ever except in the words of Bobby who is purposefully everything Rhaegar wasn't, his story a tragedy of what we lost out on. It's bullshit but that's the point. Robb and Rhaenyra are happening real time, we had a personal lens of them fucking up.
You must be really new to the fandom. It's not that hard to find people who hate rhaegar, or heavily criticize him for his choices.
@@Loki-g3kmay be the young rhaenyra but not the adult one, at least partially.
Otto getting mad when he wanted westerling to kill Rhaenyra and hung a bunch of rich nobles in front of the gates while crying about Aegon should respect Viserys when….Viserys never gave a shit about Alicents kids lol.
If S2 E2 taught me anything, it's Otto's intentions towards male primogeniture for the realm's stability is purely authentic. If Otto was given complete authority over westeros, I genuinely believe he'd run it better than anyone who ever governed the iron throne.
Otto is an excellent policy nerd who just unfortunately came up against the king of YOLO, Daemon.
Yet he urged to have Rhaenyra named heir. He went out his way to overthrow the rule of male primogeniture because he didn’t like Daemon, as soon as Aegon was born he was riding behind male primogeniture once again. He’s actually very fluid when it comes to this kind of thing. Women are allowed to be named heir, as long as Otto hates the contesting male.
@J_ads2000 I'm not going to argue the blatantly obvious with you that Daemond is completely unhinged and unpredictable and would cause harm to the realm. Having Rhaenyra named heir was a stopgap measure as everyone knew Viserys would remarry and possibly have a son, which literally everyone expected to be named heir when he came of age.
If you're a filthy *BLACK* take your delusional self elsewhere, this is a channel where we Greens congregate.
@@J_ads2000 But that's only because Otto genuinely believed Daemon was a danger to the realm. And considering Daemon's actions, can we blame him?
Combination is almost same as Tywin & Aerys II. Good administrator & Not so smart reckless king.
The most thoughtful analysis I’ve seen about Alicent’s guilt this episode. As a religious person myself growing up I could identify the unease she felt in that moment. She’s such a relatable and tragic character.
What? Her Children were dragon riders. He Uncle is the Ruler of Old Town. Her Dad is hand of the king. Religion, she is jealous.
House Hightower: Machiavellian merchant princes vs House Targaryen: eugenics sorcerer-kings.
This family is just so tragic. No one knows how to share their grief and pain and it all started because of otto. The trauma he caused to alicent is now reflected in her kids.
Aegon and haelena can't go to her to share their pain and alicent can't be with them because she can't handle it. Same with aemond. This family doesn't know how to be with each other and handle their emotions. Otto has taught them only to supress it and do what is needed to be done. Aegon was in pain and not once otto thought to be there and listen. Instead all he did was belittle aegon. Not that he was wrong as aegon did make some stupid decision but still atleast have some sympathy. I want Alicent to stand up for her kids somewhere in the show later.
The only part i dislike is alicole. There is zero development in their relationship. They don't even talk. Atleast make them have a conversation so we can understand their mindset. Its all sex scenes at the end of the episode to throw off the viewers. Atleast do something meaningful with them. they aren't doing it.
Alicent being disconnected from her children makes sense when you consider they were all conceived through martial rape by a man that was older enough to be her father before she was even
25.
Alicent didn’t want the marriage and was pressured into it thus everything that came as a result was non-consensual. So she holds resentment towards her kids conception. On top of that Argon is a rapist, who she previously disowned as a son. I wish the show would have tried to address that trauma more clearly in the script back in S1.
@@9xprincess she loves them above everything but the thing is the she didn't get a say in the way they were conceived. It's not good memory for her. Otto and viserys never gave her one good memory. And Otto never allowed her to open up about anything. All she knows is how to suppress her emotions and feel guilty.
This reason is why she can't be with her kids the way she should be. People expect her to have a healthy relationship with them when the cycle hasn't been broken and definitely won't. The greens are a perfect example of generational trauma and what happens when it's not broken. It's all because of Otto.
He might be a good politician but god did he fuck up his whole family and now can't handle them not able to handle their emotions.
Aemonds absence in the aftermath of Jaeharys is not unusual. Alicent and Otto view what he did to Lucerys as a huge mistake and have shunned him since.
Your in-depth analysis on the show is one of the few things, that *barely* keep me watching it.
Man, this show holds no punches!
With regards to Aemond, I think he serves the role of the archetypal eldest sibling.
He is the surrogate responsibility figure for his dysfunctional family. He has to always put on a strong front because they all depend on him but he can't depend on them.
If the leaks for episode 3-4 are true, i think your idea of Aemond as the "dutifuly men loyal to his family" is gonna be crashing badly i'm afraid. They are building him up as the true main villain of the entire saga
@@TheUrobolosThe true villain is Daemon.
Isn’t Aemond second child ?
@@oscarc.3597 nothing Daemon did come closer to he evil of burning uncountable villages like Aemond did
@@twoc.c1468 The people of those villages were declared enemies of the king.
Liked the variety of reactions in the family. Especially Aegon being given more sympathetic moments his actor is doing great.Otto's as well because I like to think he does care but he's just dealing with it by putting a positive political spin on this tragedy.
I agree with you, and I personally have always thought that Otto cares. In his own... distant and reserved way.
Everyone compares him to Tywin, but I think they are 2 sides of the same coin rather than the same. Tywin likely didn't love his wife. His responses following her death and insults, TO ME, reek of a man who can't stand even the slightest insult against himself. Even if it's towards his children, grandchildren, or wife, it's not because he loves them but because it reflects badly upon him.
Then there's Otto, who is largely the perfect Westrosi politician, who upon Daemon making a single nasty joke of his dead wife stood up and looked ready to smack the Valeryen blood out of Daemons face. Viserys had to intervene, and you could see his eyes and blood boiling. Based on how he acts with Alicent and his grandchildren, he likely has a big heart, but the unhealthy responsibility of a dutiful politician.
When episode 2 came out and he suggested the funeral at first, I thought, damn could the guy at least grieve a LITTLE!?!? But then I thought about his relationship with Alicent, his wife's death, and how the writers treat his hidden pain, I think he truly was, on some level, broken by Prince Jeherys death.
Yeah Tom did not come to play this season and I'm living for it. I don't see Otto as a villain like most people do either, and he unironically would have done a lot of good for his family if he hadn't been trying to marry them into a family as kooky as the Targaryens.
@HillsAliveYT yeah... but at the same time, he kinda just... WAS the best at ruling. He served the great gigachad Jaeherys, then did everything to keep the realm afloat INSPITE of Viserys, and he would have been a great councilor/hand for Aeg if it were peace time.
War makes monsters of us all, and especially the young and inexperienced. Aegon (I think) had everything in him to be a better king than Viserys, and Otto would have shaped him to be better. However... they are at war, and lives are in danger, and Aegon doesn't think Otto can polotic his way out of conflict.
Kinda sad to see the many "could have beens" in HOTD
But where is Maelor??
@isabellajensen9480 him not being there was disappointing. Good to see you again. Hope you are doing great.
I hate Otto more than I ever did because now I can see clearly that HE CARES! He cares for the kingdom for real and he cared about Viserys. Rhys Ifans is such a great actor, someone gives this man an Emmy!!!!
I really like how this season is taking a more human approach to the Greens. They are not as obliviously villains and the Blacks are not the heroes, we are just seeing people crumbling under the consequences of their ambitions and actions.
The blacks are the villains, tho. No woman should ever sit on the iron throne. It only leads to war and chaos
@@rektz2457 buddy, are you here to make misogynistic comments on a RUclips channel run by a woman? Rhaenyra wouldn't have been a bad ruler because she's a woman. She was an idiot who thought gaslighting everyone with a working pair of eyes would hide her sons' heritage.
That's why she would have been a bad ruler. Keep in mind, a lot of men do what she does, and no one calls them on it. Does that make it ok for her to do it? No. And Daemon is a man who would make a terrible king.
I can't see how on Earth the blacks are the heroes. Rhaenyra repeatedly destabilized the realm for the pettiest of reasons, the Velaryons are either cucks or dead because the blacks murdered them for spitting facts, and Daemon is the single most destructive character in the whole show.
I genuinely like Alicent and even that neurotic fuck Christon because, unlike Targs, they were raised with the understanding that they aren't above the law. They tried and failed to pass that on to the green kids, but goddammit, they tried. And whenever they do something awful, they feel real GUILT over it. Team black on the other hand are narcies, they'll commit any evil in order to get their way, they feel they have a right to do this because they're superior in their minds, and anyone who tries to hold them accountable is murdered without remorse.
@@rektz2457 there are no heroes or villains, that's the point of the story.
And there's nothing wrong with women being in charge, the men don't like the idea and Rhaenyra was not a good choice for queen, not because she was a woman, she was just not right for the job.
@@B463L sorry, I forgot the "aren't" there 😂 I mean, neither of them are really heroes nor villains, that's kinda the point of Martin's stories, the show just tried in season 1 to show the greens as villains and the blacks as heroes but that goes against Martin's intention and I think this season is doing a better job showing that they are just people, not heroes, not villains, just people (and they need therapy, but that's another discussion 😂)
Absolutely loved this take on the matter. Thank you again Hill’s!
I loved this break down and everything you said about Otto and Alicent is spot on! I have to disagree a little about Aemond, though. He is very clearly shaken by the death of his nephew, thats what led him to the Street of Silk in the first place. The fact that a handsome young prince has taken an middle aged whore as his bed partner and concubine is pretty telling. Aemond deeply desires a connection with his mother who his emotionally incapable of that connection, so he tries to replicate that when he needs comfort. This was one of the saddest scenes so far, tbh. Especially if youre a book reader, because then you certainly know how violently Aemond does indeed react to Jaehaerys' death. 😢
can’t express how exciting it is to hear a women’s perspective on these characters! thank you thank you!!
I mean in the book haelena went to visit alicent with her kids, by then the guard had been killed and alicent was restrained, when they told haelena what was gonna happen she begged them to kill her instead of her children, but cheese told her that she either pick which of her sons dies or blood will get bored and rape her daughter, she choose her youngest son, and to mock her cheese told her youngest son that his mother wants him to die then they decapitated her eldest son, she was left screaming at the loss of her child and she couldn't be around her youngest son because of cheese words
Otto was responsible more than Viserys. Yes Viserys named a female heir, but he did that on Otto's suggestion, because he didn’t want Daemon named hier. They could have annulled Daemons marriage to Lady Rhea, married him to Rhaenyra and then name them heirs as King and queen, that would have prevented the war. Or Otto could have supported Viserys marrying Laena which would have been more stable. But he could absolutely have worked to get Viserys to more forcefully ensure the Lords supported Rhaenyra instead of plotting behind the scenes to elevate Aegon as soon as Viserys died. Without Otto's support there would have been a Great council to solve the succession and also a war wouldn't have happened. Yes Viserys made the situation bad, but Otto put it into effect.
The Daemon thing wouldn't work, because they want to keep him as far away from the throne as possible.
@@WillyYalad-ep7gv Otto hated Daemon probably because he couldn’t manipulate him. Would Daemon have been a great king, probably not. But He wouldn’t have started a civil war. Plus he would have hated mundane stuff and Rhaenyra would likely handle the day to day. But what I was saying is, that if he married them and named Dameon heir that is something that everyone would accept precedence wise. If Daemon was not exiled then he would be around and likely work to prevent Viserys remarrying. And after He and Rhaenyra had children then even if Viserys married that child could be married to Aegon. And married to Daemon, those would be silver-blond children. I am just saying that there are a bunch of ways the war could have been prevented. But seriously the main way was Otto not being in the background in a conspiracy to crown Aegon. Just Rhaenyra not leaving Kingslanding and taking up residence on Dragonstone.
@@movieloverfan18The problem, man, is that Daemon was the first reason for Viserys to choose Rae as his heir, it makes no sense for him to marry them. Also, I don't think Otto despises Daemon just because of his lack of control but because of his behavior, maybe he is a good warrior, but I really don't think he would have been a good king. And finally I agree with you on the bad move that was moving to Dragonstone.
I think with Otto it's not just about the times Viserys didn't listen to him it's about the time he did. If Viserys hadn't changed the succession in favour of Rhaenyra. Aegon would likely be the unquestioned king (and probably better prepared for that role); Jaehaerys would still be alive and there would be every reason to expect continued peace. If Otto allows himself to be too self aware about his relationship with Viserys and what it led to, the responsibility might be too much to bear.
Oh obviously. Otto is regretting that now tho.
You know, while Alicent could do better than Criston Cole, she could and has done worse(cough...Viserys... cough). And as the most recent episode proves, Rhaenyra has done worse too(cough...Daemon...cough).
While I love the psychological analysis of the greens isolating themselves in the face of grief I can’t shake the feeling that the writers didn’t gave them scenes together so they’re less sympathetic. Aegon and Helaena’s actors said they had to fight for their meager scenes together.
... If the writers wanted the Greens to be less sympathetic they would not have cut Aegon II making a feast to celebrate Lucerys death, made Aemond killing Lucerys by accident, changing that Lucerys only took Aemond's eyes because Aemond was trying to kill Jacaerys after attacking a 3 years old Joffrey without any good reason, they wouldn't had changed Alicent from a older and ambitious prude woman to an young woman being manipulated into a situation she didn't wanted and feeling betrayed, nor should had made Viserys an absent father to Aegon, Aemond and Helaena
@@twoc.c1468 i think you are confusing sympathy for lack of agency. those actions (the biggest example being aemond killing lucerys on accident) don’t make him more sympathetic they just strip him of his agency. they make the story bland. the greens are not sympathetic because they’re good or victims of circumstances they’re supposed to be sympathetic because they fight tooth and nail for their family. taking both their familiar bond and their will to action is a disservice to the characters, the story and the audience.
@@Valentinianist of course they're making the Greens more sympathetic, They're taking out the reason people despises this characters and making them victims/misunderstood, they're making them the underdogs.
The Greens are a bunch of sel-rightous, hypocrites assholes in the books, in the series they're a broken family.
think the reason aemond doesnt share any feelings with his family is because he deduced how they would react, or not react, most likely, in a comforting way or offer any kind of solace. also the reason he didnt mention jahaerys was because with him in the picture he had no chance of getting the throne, which doesnt mean he hated him but likely avoided/acted like he didnt exist so there was no emotional impact, considering the no love lost between him and aegon or the aparently colder realtionship he has now with his sister. he mightve also realised that with that murder war was a certainty and an eventual battle to the death between him and daemon is all but inevitable, so it was a sort of last tumble before the death soldier style.
You might be right on the underlying psychological reasons why Aegon reacted the way he did, seeing Jahaerys as an extension of his own turmoil. However, I think that is the only reason he could care about the child in any way, as an extension of himself. He could not give a pigeon's crap about either of his children or family members from the time he was a teenager.
Wow. I completely missed the missing mention of Jarharys in the wild Aemond/ Sylvie interaction. I might have been distracted by the wild Targaryen-ness of the naked fetal position presented. Great video❤
What a delightful and fascinatingly messy family! I feel like it's hard to connect with the blacks because they seem kind of undeveloped and inconsistent at this point compared to the nuanced, fun, messy greens 😅 We've been told so many times Rhae and her supporters are the good guys, but half of them feel like complete strangers to me, and at best they're less fun to watch!
The irony would be that the blacks will win the war but green will win the audience
I’m really glad to have found your channel. Thought I was going crazy arguing with my friends over the greens vs blacks. Lol
They’re crumbling because the writers need them to be the clear and absolute villains. I feel bad for Fabian. This fandom is brutal.
I agree wholeheartedly however I appreciate the greens for being openly disconnected with each other unlike the blacks who are similar but the writing makes them act like an “family” and having a lot of issues amongst themselves because they are actually interesting and very compelling. The fandom has reached a level of insanity and weirdness. It’s not that serious and these are paid actors playing fictional characters.
Yes, poor Fabien! LOL I like Ser Criston more than ever and I'm a complete trash goblin so that presumably translates to a bunch of unhinged a-holes harassing him even more on social media.
@@HillsAliveYT it's because you have good taste
Well they are the villains. Even the book confirms it
I prefer absolute villains and antagonist to shallow heroes
Thanks for making this
Say what you want about Otto and feel how you feel about him ....he knows how to play the game of thrones and they should have listened to him.
THE HILLS ARE ALIVE, WITH THE SOUND OF VIDEO ESSAYS!!!
Hey girl!! My A quiet place and GOT crossover is up, if you wanted to check it out haha. 😄
LOL bless! I'm literally going to see A Quiet Place Day One in half an hour!
@HillsAliveYT omg!! I am going to see it tomorrow haha, hope you like it xD
Daemon Targaryen to his black kids, stepkids, and toddlers. He will pay equally no attention to you
I like your videos. Keep up the good work
Otto never made me buy into an altruistic for the greater good rederick he spews.
He does care about the people, for instance when Rhaenys appears with her dragon, Otto commanded to open the gates so the people could ran away,(there are other examples throughout the series)
I think Otto has an obsession for control. The fact that he was a second son might have to do with that desire. He is a good hand because he managed to keep the realm at peace for decades but he also has pride and thinks he's better than the rest. That's why he wants to rule through other people, kings who have no character who let him do what he wants.
@@starlight23-dj9jh Otto couldn't care less about the people, the same way as any other Westerosi lord.
Even though it frustrates me to see how all of the Hightowers act towards each other, it really does make realistic sense as there are families like this and that is how the generational trauma gets passed down.
And black supporters will use this emotional stuntedness & perceived guilt (esp Aliscents) to justify their moral high ground, entirely writing them all (except Helaena, at least) as guilty for Daemons crime.
Did the greens think the blacks wouldn’t seek justice for killing Luke? Everyone is to blame but this war is about two half’s seeking a balance. Jaehaerys death was a score to level the playing field. Everyone who helped create and continue the divide between the two halves of the family are at a fault. They manufactured these divides, conflicts and deaths.
@J_ads2000 The Blacks should've sought justice against adults, not a literal child. What they did was not just. It was wanton murder. No-one but Daemon is responsible for B&C😊
@@MI-vc9lp This. Loathe as I am to say it, Aegon actually hadn't done anything to Rhaenyra to merit his baby being murdered. And Helaena definitely didn't do anything to Rhaenyra. And Jaeherys absolutely did nothing to deserve getting his head sawn off in his bed. Aemond was the only guilty one who deserved punishment, but Daemon didn't have the brains to hire men who could threaten Aemond's life or the guts to deal with Aemond himself. And for this, a toddler was butchered in front of his mother.
@@J_ads2000 you do realize that a literal toddler was killed right? Settling scores doesn’t justify any such thing. And your callousness just proves my original point.
@@J_ads2000 What they didn't think was that they would kill an innocent 6-year-old child, who had not harmed anyone. It's sickening, these people justifying the murder of a child.
I wonder if the show will ever acknowledge that House Hightower has essentially decided to sacrifice Otto and all of his descendants in order to destroy the dragons. I think Otto knows this and it's horrible to imagine how he copes with this.
Could you make a video about Daemon's alleged skills as a warrior? The Blood and Cheese incident makes me wonder if he's really the great warrior he's cracked up to be.
I want this video as well. We never saw Daemon go up against a skilled warrior one on one in a life or death situation. Where he has to show pure skill without help or back up.
I think Daemon is a pretty terrible fighter.
Daemon better be a skilled warrior in this version because if he's not then my favorite scene in fire and blood (the battle over the god's eye) will be ruined
@@jjs1300000 not just that. If he's such a great warrior why did he hire two bungling incompetents to kill Aemond instead of doing it himself?
@@amorojaz27 Just proves that he is afraid of Aemond.
Aegon, Aemond and Helaena are NOT Hightowers they are Targaryens. Nobody calls Rhaenyra an Arryn so why should Viserys' other children be called by their mother's house name instead of their own
Why Balon Greyjoy called Theon a wolf instead of kraken? Culture matters and the Blacks is way more Valyrian-like than the Greens in their culture
Because it has to do with how they were raised, not by their blood. Aegon, Helaena, and Aemond (poor Daeron doesn't exist) were primarily raised by their mother while their father was absent and only cared about Rhaenyra. They were raised by their mother and grandfather's values and culture. In the eyes of society that makes them more Hightower.
@@Emma88178the dance is between two factions of the Targaryens. That's why it's called the dance of the dragons
@@twoc.c1468why Ned stark is called a Stark and not an Arryn since he was raised by an Arryn and learnt everything from him?
@@starlight23-dj9jh Cause Ned even being raised by an Arryn is an archetypical Stark who follows the North traditions and culture and so the northerners recognize him.
RIP Sigmund Freud. You would have loved HotD
He would have had a field day with Aemond and Alicent. Talk about Opedius. 😂
Well we watched only 2 episodes. We have yet to see more of them in future.
Its an interesting dynamic with the Green faction. And while yes Otto made moves to secure his family on the throne, he definitely wasn't sugar coating the warning to Allicent that if Rhaenyra came to power she would kill her children for being obstructions to her legitimacy to the throne. In the Game of Thrones world, I don't think you can survive being kind, virtuous and naïve without playing the game by its rules. Otto like Tywin I think understood the game but didn't account for rogue variables from his grandkids IE Aemond/Vhagar killing Luke or Aegon going on a murder spree with the rat catchers after he got all the sympathy points from the public. I like Otto in some aspects, just like Tywin the dude will go to extreme lengths to get his family on top, but his flaw of overlooking his kid and grandkids traumas or shortcomings burns his plans to the ground.
The sad thing is, Otto is STILL more of an emotionally available father than Tywin.
Like that's hard.
An extremely low bar to clear, but true.
They are not Hightowers this is Civil war and Aegon, Aemond and Helaena are Targaryens
From the blacks veiwpoint they are Hightowers.
Their colors are Hightower, their faith is Hightower's one, the core of their support is Hightower influence against the more Targaryen allign houses siding with Rhaenyra (with the sole exception being Baratheon because of a marriage proposal).
@@twoc.c1468 their color i show is different than in books doesn't change the fact they are legitimate Targaryens, Aegon Aemond and Helaean do not follow faith of the seven no Targaryen does they only tolerate it .They siding with Rhaenyra because Viserys told them to kneel and swear but some lords died in meantime and some sons do not want woman as their queen they do not sode with her because she is more Targaryen than Aegon. Rhaenyra is also not pure Targaryen if we are specifical
@@queenxx1690 Color i was talking about the color of their banners, not physical appaerance. Their primary color is... Green, the Hightower color, not Red who is the other Targaryen color.
The Red Keep is covered on the Faith symbols and culture and everything we know points for the Green following this Faith (They can be no-praticants, but none of them follows the Valyrian gods, can you see any member of the Greens having a Valyrian marriage?)
And do you know what is funny? 4 Great Houses followed Rhaenyra (Stark, Tully, Arryn and Greyjoy), against 2 following Aegon II (Baratheon and Lannister), Rhaenyra had way more support from the kingdom even being a woman and many of this lords weren't the ones who made the oath. Tully is the best example of this, it was a new generation following Rhaenyra and being Essentials to the war
@@twoc.c1468 show try potray them as Hightowers they are not ! In books Aegon has black banner with golden dragon to honor his dragon not some green shirt only Alicent and his court wear this color not Aegon himself.Rhaenyra banner in books is also not simply Targaryen one in book it is mixed with Velaeyons and Arryns since she is 1/4 Arryn idk why you are trying to proove here they are not Hightower this father was Viserys Targaryen and seed is strong.Aegon has more claim than Rhaenyra anyway no matter what they say in show all she have is her daddy words even Condal said so and he is team black.Bye
I can't really agree with the assertion that Otto having more control would have prevented the Dance from escalating. Any option that doesn't end with Daemon on the throne or married to Rhaenyra with her ob the throne would have seen Daemon rebel.
Otto would do anything to prevent Daemon from having power.
I don't think Daemon would've rebeled against Rhaenyra as queen regardless if he was married to her or not. He's a menace and a psycho but he always cared about his brother and Rhaenyra.
And Daemon would do anything to take power from Otto.
Disagree. He'd definitely hurt Rhaenyra if he had the chance. The show whitewashed him but in the books he doesn't really care for his niece and is using her for power. Although to be honest, he even groomed her in the show as well so it's not a good look for him.
@@Emma88178 the book is written by 3-4 people that weren't participants in the events giving their own povs and interpretations.
Are you going to do a reaction on episode 3?
I think cole also was conveniently absent from both gaurding the royal family from assassin's at night and gaurding the royal children the night aemond lost his eye.
Ever since the night the Aemond lost his eye and Alicent , Rheanyra, Daemon and Cole were nowhere to be found, I have been thinking that Alicent and Cole were getting it on. We were shown what Rheanyra and Daemons were up to but we never knew what Alicent was up to. She acted so out of character when she went after Lucerys and Rheanyra. I’m thinking in hindsight that it was her guilt that she was getting it on with Cole while Aemond lost his eye.
when otto was having his moment i thought tywin was back then I remember the Hightowers are a weak broken house whoo finally saw a path toreal power
Tywin was definitely not the great political player people make him out to be. He was an idiot who whenever he didn't get his way would resort to unnecessary violence.
I could have accepted guilt was the reason Alicent didnt comfort Aegon if she didnt immediately go sleep with Cole. I cant say I blame Aemond, who used to worship the ground his mother walks on, resents her.
But again, that's her stunted way of coping with trauma. She just doesn't know how to deal with it. It's not surprising that she would use sex to deal with her emotions.
@@Emma88178 Maybe people would be more prone to understand this if Alicent wasn't a prude judging others who do the same.
@@twoc.c1468 That was before
@@WillyYalad-ep7gv Show me one scene in the books or serie that suggest Alicent changed her views
@@twoc.c1468Alicent behaves like 90% of the medieval women behaved. Why are u asking a medieval woman to be a feminist? Rhaenyra is the exception not the rule
Otto is to blame for all this pain because he is the one that started this whole thing. Viserys made his wishes clear from the start. Rhaenyra was his heir. He did not change his mind but tto manouvred to manipulate the political spectrum and helped steal the throne. So he is to Blame
It's Viserys fault as well because instead of taking the time to change the laws and make them official, he just says that Rhaenyra is his heir but makes no attempt to do anything about it. It's all just by his word which isn't enough. Just because he's the King doesn't mean he can change literally THOUSANDS of years of laws all willy nilly. You need to make things official with the support of the council. Which again, he never did. He caused a serious succession crisis.
Anyone think the series will have Aegon kill Criston for sleeping with Alicent instead of doing his job and guarding the queen and children? That, or Aemond will and lie saying the blacks did.
"New found relationship"..
There's nothing new about their relationship.
Aemond ain’t the most loyal of the greens stop trying down play daeron to me aemond this episode made me mad cause he didn’t care about his own nephew but cried about the strong boy
Daeron did more for his brother than what aemond did but for some reason he’s liked and the favorite of Otto wich is bs honestly cause he didn’t give a care about aegon frl he wanted to rule honestly my opinion
Both Lucerys and Jaehaerys are his nephews. And he did directly accidentally kill one so yeah…
Both boys are his nephews, except he directly participated in killing one and they lived together as children. Aemond also knows the assassins were sent for him because of what he did to Luce. Him saying he regrets it is basically him acknowledging his actions caused the death of both of his nephews.
Tho Aegon partying and having 0 FS to give over the death of his nephew even though they basically grew up together for the better part of their childhoods is more disturbing to me.
Why is this video titled this?
most of the people you talk about are Targaryens not Hightowers
Becuase they act like Hightowers half the time
If only Rhaenys had been queen instead of Viserys and if only he hadn’t married aemma so young (at least in the books) the dynasty could have been strong
I hate Otto, but he is 100% right this episode. He is the MVP Of this season so far. His reaction when Aegon mentioned Criston Cole had done something is pure gold. Give him an Emmy just for that.
Amazing how you make the analisis saludos desde Argentina i wanna say that how you pointed out the important of a Dorne (Hispanic persone) be in the court was something that not other people talk about and play the stereotypes of our people i would like if a part of Dornish caracters come to join the green side, so not only have one commander but more hispanos in the show but now the military campaing is going to be inspired of the war that Hannibal Barca, fougth against Rome that seems inspired oldtow and hightowers the origins of the faith of the seven but the 3 Criston Aegon and Eadmon are a paralel of Hannibal Mago Barca Asdrubal the brothers and Maharbal the lions of Cartage like a great guerrilla tactic gonna be rook rest with a little of Comandante Che Guevara here in Latinoamerica. I see that the blacks are more desorganiced that the greens and that its going to pop out in their faces in Rook rest wichs is their Cannas the greates battle of Hannibal a great comandante is going to deliber and now we are on the way, muchas gracias por los videos is very educational in my view
How Dorne, who HATES any Targaryen AND the Reachmen, will come to help a Targaryen/Reachmen coalision? The Greens are everything Dorne despises
@@twoc.c1468 Hey thanks sorry that just see this, i wanna support what i say in this of course there is a hate against the reach and that Oldtown (Rome), but like in real life many of hispania (name that comes after the phoenician origin mean land of rabbits) like Trojan the Emperator that was one of the best if not the best of Rome, and many legions that were from there take place like in the invasion of the british island.
In that middle age comes this inspiration that Dorne is out of the westeros, Europe for the 200 years before the show is the Caliphate of Cordoba capital City that is in the south of the peninsula like sunspear. that is the paralel and the vikings the targaryen like we see have good relations with East of Europe even in the bizantine era from constantinople have good relations with Cordoba and great constructions make with materials from them, even tho there where wars against vikings but that is why the scorpions where invented in Dorne in the battle off sevilla and lisboa the vikings won and the lost in cordoba just like in the book is where a dragon of the sister wife die. i think that and of course in every part that a Hispanic when even fighing like Jose de Mirdanda and took a group of Latinos with him one of the libertadores fought for the Tzar Ekaterina the great fought for her, like Hannibal Barca who send 20000 and send them to Carthage to have a more mixed people that way many latinos actors can play and blend in like a middle east person in differents shows i see that can apport. like the man who was talking in the Bar to who the expositions were made
Why do you call Alicent’s sins “imagined”?
I'm pro Green, and Alicent going immediately to sleep with Cole after walking away from Aegon really rubbed me the wrong way. If she truly was guilty over poor baby Jahaerys she would immediately have ended things with Cole. I used to think Alicent without a doubt loves her children, but now I'm starting to wonder.
I was with you other than you saying that the Dance never would've happened if "only Visaerys had followed Otto's advice". Otto's advice, riddled with selfish ambition, is what directly led to the Dance of the Dragons. Disinheriting Daemon to begin with (like Otto wanted) is what reopened the issue of the succession at all.
Viserys disinherited Daemon because of what he said about Baelon. And Otto's advice would've worked if Rhaenyra was disinherited and Viserys was an emotionally present father
@@MI-vc9lp yes, because of what he said in the tavern... AFTER Otto lobbied time and time again for Daemon to be disinherited. The precedent set at the great council was that the heir should always be the closest male. Otto because of his dislike for Daemon (deserved or otherwise) wanted that changed and took every effort possible to put distance between Daemon and Visaerys. Without that, it is both unlikely that the relationship between the brothers would've deteriorated to the point that it did (included Daemon's effed up comment in the tavern) NOR would the succession have come into question.
The Dance of the Dragons ultimately comes down to Visaerys' decision to overturn the precedent set by the Great Council, full stop. That doesn't happen if Otto doesn't push for that. And THEN Otto, after maneuvering for his own gain and ambition sought to disinherit Rhaenyra after scheming to put his daughter in Visaerys' bed.
Otto's advice was not good, impartial advice that would've saved the realm "if only Visaerys would have listened"
@@MI-vc9lp and for the record, I think Hill's Alive makes great content that I often disagree with, but appreciate the perspective. Fire & Blood has a heavy bias against the Blacks, as does Hills. The show has a bias against the Greens, which I think colors the commentary a bit. That's just my opinion.
@@raidennc Correct, I Like Hill's videos but the Greens could drown a thousand babies secretly and we'd get a detailed and interesting analysis but right at the end it'd still be the Black's fault somehow lol
House Hightower AND TARGARYEN
Viserys didn’t kill his previous wife in order to have a male heir.
You’re thinking of Henry VIII
In the show, he went behind her back and forced a c-seciton on her without her consent. So yes, he essentially killed her. Hills Alive has made a video on this topic as well.
Pero por q actuan como si solo daemon fuera malo aqui en la serie nadie es bueno la unica persona buena es helena
nunca entendere por q rhaenyra y viserys no confían en daemon pero sin confiaron en Otto y alicent y q les llevó eso a q le quitaron el trono y daemon aún sigue ahi con ella apoyandola 🤷
Ahora solo por q paso lo de blood y chese se le olvida q otto queria mandar a matar a rhaenyra y sus hijos
Alicent es una hipócrita tanto q critico a rhaenyra por acostarse con otros hombre ella esta aciendo lo mimso
Aegon solo por q mostraton q queria a su hijo se les olvido q es un violador q tiene hijos bastardos q pelean en las calle y aemond solo por q supuestamente fue sin querer mato a luke y aun asi luke era un chico pequeño tambien pero todo eso se les olvida nadie dice q daemon es perfecto pero en la serie nadie lo es todos cometen errores 🤷
Damon es Malo, la primer escena te demuestra que el comete abuso policial dónde mata a civiles inocentes junto a culpables, es X eso que Otto no lo quiere( la misma razón xla que se enoja con Aegon al matar civiles para poder matar al asesino de su hijos.
Vos confiarías en alguien q ama la violencia? En vez de confiar a la mano que aconsejo eficazmente a tu antecesor? Daemon la apoya, pero sigue creyendo q el es merecedor del trono, la escena de la pelea te lo indica. A nadie se le olvida q Aegon es un violador, pero una persona mala también puede amar a sus hijos y sentir furia cuando se los quitan. Es un personaje gris
@@starlight23-dj9jh nadie dice q daemon es un santo si mato gente mala q cometía crimenes quien dice q eran inocentes lo dice Otto y es es verdad por q el lo dice al igual paso q Otto dice q el ollo q daemon dijo el heredero por un dia y no sabremos si es verdad o no pero el estupido de viserys le creyó 🤷😅 si daemon quisiera el trono ubiese matado a viserys o rhaenyra si el quisiera el lo q siempre a querido es la confianza de viserys si a echo cosas malas pero lo q quiere es q su familia esté en el trono Otto no es un santo el comenzó todo si el ubiese sido una buena mano no ubiese enviado a alicent con viserys y ubiera aceptado a rhaenyra y la ubiera ayudado si lo q el quería q su sangre estuviera en el trono se enoja con aegon no por q le importe la gente si no por q eso los ace quedar mal ante la gente quería mandar a matar a rhaenyra y sus hijos en el 1x9 a si q no nadie es inocente aquí, aegon solo por q sufra por su hijo no lo ace bueno por eso aquí en la serie nadie es inocente pero solo sacan lo mal de daemon 🤷 aquí todos los personajes son grices por lo mismo por q acen cosas malas pero en algún momento uno llega a sentir pena por ellos asi q lo q quiero dar a entender q aqui todos acen cosas malas pero q siempre solo sacan lo q ace daemon cuando todos acen cosas malas 🤷
Firstman ⚔️
I don't believe Aegon was mourning his son, so much as his pride
What do you mean perceived guilt? It's on Alicent and Criston.
Only on Criston since he is the sworn protector of Alicent but didn't assign a protector for Helaena. In the books they killed Helaena's guard. The writers wanted more drama for the greens
@starlight23-dj9jh Now ask yourself what the practical result of the change is.
The answer is that it's simply there to create a new focus of blame, to divert blame away from Daemon and diffuse it onto others. Daemon didn't explicitly order them to murder the kids and it only succeeded anyway because Criston and Alicent were fucking. Other writing decisions have a similar aim: Helaena isn't shown pleading for their lives or going mad with grief afterward, sparing us the sight of an innocent woman being destroyed by Daemon's actions on the excuse that autistic people just have weird reactions to things sometimes.
Once you tally this up, it doesn't match at all with "wanting more drama for the greens" but with a purposeful attempt to undercut the emotional impact that the scene ought to have as much as possible, and thereby sparing controversy and moral ambivalence among the audience as much as possible.
is this an AI voice?
LOL no it's my scritchy scratchy real life voice.
And that's why we watch this channel!
Your apparent bias toward the Hightowers and against Rhaenyra and Damon is very surprising. I have no preference for either side, since I hate monarchies as a rule and think all of these people brought the entire situation onto themselves. Ergo, I'm Team Small Folk, and under monarchy the small folk *always* get screwed no matter who is sitting on the throne. To my point however, several statements you made give away this bias; viz "Had Viserys not indulged [Daemon or] Rhaenyra;" that Viserys "Simply bet on the wrong horse;" and should have "heeded Otto's advice." This ignores the fact that while Rhaenyra is self-centered, entitled, and never properly prepared for rule by her father, Aegon is an *actual psychopath.* Not only is he a serial rapist, but he enjoys watching enslaved children-- many of them HIS children-- being forced to fight each other to the death. His brother Aemond is no better, having committed attempted murder against his much younger cousins and remains a perpetual victim when said cousins panicked self-defense resulted in the predictable consequence of his losing an eye. None of these people are qualified to rule a lemonade stand, much less a kingdom, but you framed your entire argument as though the solution to the entire Dance of the Dragons would have been for Rhaenyra to go away quietly and let the Child Rapist Psychopath rule unabated.
It's amazing how someone adapting a story who has a personal bias to one side can manipulate an audience by inserting just _one scene_ into a character's history in his adaptation. All of a sudden, the audience's expectation of a grey-on-grey story with noble heroes on either side switches to instantly rooting for one side in a white-on-black story.
It's a very cheap way to get the audience to agree with the screenwriter, and very galling if you know the original material and can see what's being done but others can't and are completely taken in by it.
Long Live The Queen!!!
I kind of agree but the fact of the matter is if she wasnt busy having sex with criston he couldve been there to protect the kid and then she continues to have sex with him after that i dont think its that irrational that she would blame herself alicent is obviously in the wrong especially considering she was so judgemental of rhaenrya in part for the same thing she is doing but yes ultimately she not to blame why do u seem to ignore her wrongdoings but not rhaenrya i dont think neither one is better than the other
Their own fault they were taking their treachery lightly like fools. Literally killed their nephew, yet we party like normal. 😂😂😂
Somehow killing a child only become a bad thing for them when it is a Green child being killed.
@@twoc.c1468 None of them are good, but you know, there is a significant difference when
1) One was an accident, the other was an order.
2) One death was clean and the other literally has a painful decapitation.
3) One was a 4 YEAR OLD boy, the only bad thing he had done was exist, and the other a preteen who got into a fight with the guy who killed him, because, you know, he permanently damaged the man by taking his EYE out of him.
There are slight differences between both cases. AND! almost no one (not even among the greens) was happy with Luke's death, because it was a stupid move that will bring more unpleasant consequences, and well because he is a child.
@@WillyYalad-ep7gv 1) Yeah;
2) There is nothing clean in being eaten by a dragon or falling into the sea from the sky, or both.
3) The eye story is way more complex, but i assure you i think Lucerys did nothing wrong.
And i hightly doubt anyone on Green side cared about Lucerys life or him being a child, they cared about how his death was a starting point to a dangerous war, but if you take away this treat they would all be celebrating or being neutral about it
@@twoc.c1468lucerys was to blame, since he never apologised and the last chance he had of actually being nice to the person he maimed he laughed at him.The 4 year-old didn't do anything to anyone
@@starlight23-dj9jh In the books Lucerys was defending his brothers from an older children, Aemond was 10 when Luke was 5, who was savagely beating Jacaerys and attacked his 3 years old brother moments before.
In the show, he was defending his brother again against an murder attempt.
In both versions Aemond lost his eye because of his actions, even in the show that wanted so much to you to side with him
Way too many mouth sounds
Aegon was upset at what it did to his image. It was all ego driven.
He wouldn't be crying at the end of that was the case.
@@amorojaz27 You don’t think people cry because of their ego being bruised? Ever watch an NFL Super Bowl?
I really disagree with you. The grief and rage was so obviously stemming from the death of his beloved son -- I think you should the scene again.
@@MI-vc9lp So beloved he couldn't recognize Jaehaerys from Jaehaera and knew nothing of the boy routine...
So Luke's death broke the Arryn Family? You are aware that they are Targaryens right? Only Otto and Alisent are Hightowers.
Did you even watch the video?
@@tuckernutter Yes, she speaks of Targaryen characters like they are Hightowers which they are clearly not.
Hard to care about the greens with reluctant baby king and Criston Cole. Aemon shouldn’t have killed Luke.
It's all Viserys' fault for naming a female as his heir. The war happened because of him and Rhaenyra. No good will come out with a woman on the iron throne. Only men should sit on the iron throne
I would not go that far
Wow, one rarely sees such sexism nowadays. You are a true spectacle.
That’s why I believe most of team green is just bunch of sexist…
Who did advised Viserys to make Rhaenyra his heir? Otto. Hightowers are the reason of Civil war among Viserys children.
Funny, from 7 Great Houses Rhaenyra was supported by 4 and Aegon by 2, this argument is a bullshit.
Vile woman Alicent, Forced her son to the throne, the writers CHOOSE A VERY VERY CHEAP AND CRAP WAY THE way they made him king, think it's written by woman a LOT THESE Shows, just eye rolling at times and the convo's drag on and on and on , zzzzzzzzz
Fuck Team Black and Green at this time, I'm Team Everyone-needs-to-hug-Haelena-and-get-her-a-therapist 🥹