I could mention that the half-normalised patch connection will allow you to record the original on channel/track 1, and by plugging at the patch 1 out to a comp or eq input, then comp/eq output to channel/track 2 input, you can record the modified signal, all at the same time. You won't be able to do that without a patch bay, well not easily anyway. I'm really enjoying your studio tour Ryan, and a great insight for a great studio setup.
+RecordingStudio9.com Thanks! Yeah, I thought I mentioned the bit about recording the modified and original signal separately. I know said something about in the studio tour video for the control room.
Thank you , this is the first video i understand clearly ! I leave that here for people who buyed the NEUTRIK NYS-SPP-L1 for a deeper understanding concerning when and how we have to flip the internal patch channel cards . for the NEUTRIK NYS-SPP-L1 for the setup you explained : The first half of the Patch 1 to 12 , Upper raw OUT come from Preamps & bottom raw IN go to sound interface's Inputs, This HALF-NORMAL mode is how this NYS-SPP-L1 is setup on all the 24 points by Default , so we don't have to flip those connectors cards from 1 to 12. 2nd Half of the Patch 13 to 24 is for some comp / eq / fx ( useless for them to feed into themself ) , So we have to remove the Face of the patch to flip the connectors cards that way : the only one "GREY ring" located > "Face panel & bottom INPUT raw" (by default) after flipping the card must be located on : " Back panel & upper OUTPUT raw " ; That way all outputs from the processors units plugged at "Back & Upper Output raw" will automatically Isolate the upper raw from the bottom raw and avoid some feed a processor or guitar pedal in itself .
One other question related to patching mics into bays vrs preamps. How do you deal with clients who want to track synths, drum machines, keyboards, etc from the control room? Many preamps (like the VA 573, CAPI VP28 and SSL VHD) accept those line level devices on the XLR jack.
very helpful thanks! could anyone explain if there is a difference between a converter and an audio interface? As far as I can tell they are synonymous? both offer analog to digital conversion for in the box editing. But I am wondering if there's a difference, and if sound quality is enhanced if you have a converter separate from your audio interface. Feels like a dumb question, but i need some clarification... thanks!
Thanks for making this video. The explanations were helpful. It would be helpful to see a camera on the patchbay as you're connecting the cable, and also to be able to hear the differences in sound as you change up the signal flow.
+explodingPSYCH The biggest reason is phantom power and keeping track of how the patch bay is putting your mics at risk. If you have mics that don't use phantom power, and you patch that mic into a pre that the phantom power is on (Or still draining off), then the 1/4 will short the connections and cause damage. Much better to have an XLR patch bay for doing this. Also, if you have something that is "Normaled" to go to a pre, and a different mic was going into the bottom jack and using phantom, then if you pull out that bottom jack, whatever mic you had from the jack on top, will get routed automatically to that pre, and with phantom.
+creativesoundlab Thanks for the response! What do you mean by "damage"? I know a select few ribbon mics can be damaged by phantom power, but I've never actually own any mics that are harmed by phantom power. If I don't own any mics that are damaged by phantom power, is using a patchbay this way a problem? Also: how would an XLR patchbay differ from a TRS patchbay, aside from the obvious connector type?
+explodingPSYCH The answer to both questions is that connector type. When you insert a TRS in, the "T" will make contact with the "R" part, meaning that hot and cold will be crossed or shorted. I wouldn't want to do it with any mic. XLR just keeps all the pins from ever crossing one another. For me, I don't swap out a lot of preamps, so I decide as I'm plugging it in at the snake which pre based on the snare channel number. For example my Warm Audio pres are 9 - 12, and my SCA pres are 1- 8. I'm not sure the damage it would cause a condenser to take the hot and cold and touch them together, (Pins 2 and 3 for most mics) but I won't want to find out. For ribbons, the actual ribbon will dance as a charge is applied to it. Heres a video of that happening. ruclips.net/video/8jsuCgGBQ5A/видео.html
+explodingPSYCH Some mics that aren't damaged by phantom power may still become noisier when recording if phantom power is switched on when the mic doesn't need it. Just thought I'd throw that out there as well.
+creativesoundlab Good point about the tip crossing the ring. I'm still unsure why that would cause any damage. I guess I'll have to poke around now, because now I'm curious! Cool video link, btw.
Well, it was half normalled and through. But now, I have more patch bays and it's all half normalled. The return of the outboard comes back on the top row of the next bay. Then normalled to the next outboard, or to the digital in.
Great video thanks Ryan! Can you tell us what cables you are using to come out of your interface into the patchbay? Can you also tell us what cables you are using to come in/out of your preamps and into the patchbay? Thanks
+Benny Turner I don't remember which cables make and model. Most of my cables are mogami and I make them as I need them. For connectors, they are mostly TRS to TRS going to and from the patch bay to the interface. Between the preamps and patch bay, they are XLR to TRS
Waterfall - an excellent (and simple) way to describe the signal flow in a patchbay. Tip: for better visability you can use cables with more contrasting colours. Good work (as always)!
Thanks this is great! I want to use my patchbay for my synth and fx pedals. I was wondering if I used 2 Y cables from stereo in/out of the delay pedal to only one channel of the patchbay, and have my instrument going into and out of this channel will this essentially retain the stereo information? or would this be summed into mono?
thanks ! I guess my question is , will a Y cable work the same as having 2 separate cables for L/R, essentially saving the hassle to have to patch L/R cable individually....
So is the second half of your patch bay in thru mode or normalised mode? This is where I still get lost :( Also, what patch patch bay is that?This still helped quite a bit tho! Thanks :)
Got me further than other articles/videos. Still want to see a concrete example using maybe 3 or 4 devices; show how they are wired up to the back, and then labelled and used in front.
It's a single cable with many mic cables inside. In studios it will often go to a box on the wall. For stage and live use, it usually goes to a box on the stage.
I am going to make myself look like an idiot in a public forum :) .. please do not bash me too much. I have a DBX - PB - 48, a Scarlett 18i20, a presonus bluetube v2 (preamp) a 4 channel compressor/limiter, a UFX 1604 that I would like to use for eq and one knob compression, an avid eleven rack, an Ampeg SCR-DI, and a couple more gadgets. I always find myself plugging and unplugging my bass and switching it out with a SURE SM78b in Chanel one of the blue tube pre-amp. I would like to stop doing that, but also potentially leverage that pre-amp in different situations. (I use channel 2 dedicated for my DI Guitar). But.. what else could I do? could I route out a track to the pre-amp? maybe a synth? an EZdrummer kick or snare? then patch those 2 signals into my UFX 1604, then send it back to my preamp then into my interface then into my computer with logic? (totally lost).. question 1. I guess my question is, how do I hook all of this up to "track" with, and... how do I also set it up to leverage the external gear for pre-amp, EQ and compression while using Logic Pro x or studio one live 4 artist edition?
Why’s that always explain in front but never from the back. If you would it explain first. The back and how it goes in the front it would be easy to understand. Now I am more confused 🤷♂️
I'd have preferred to see how you utilize signal path for tracking vs mixing and therefore showed both the wiring scenarios. Also would have preferred to have viewed the patchbay from overhead (or head on so to speak) rather than look at you talk and plug your cable in to the same spots from a side angle and distance. I generally like your videos but this isn't one of them. I won't thumbs down but I'm not thumbs up either. This is your verbal thumbs down.
You're right, it is pretty simple, but this explanation was not.
still confusing me about how to route on the back patchbay :))
I could mention that the half-normalised patch connection will allow you to record the original on channel/track 1, and by plugging at the patch 1 out to a comp or eq input, then comp/eq output to channel/track 2 input, you can record the modified signal, all at the same time. You won't be able to do that without a patch bay, well not easily anyway.
I'm really enjoying your studio tour Ryan, and a great insight for a great studio setup.
+RecordingStudio9.com Thanks! Yeah, I thought I mentioned the bit about recording the modified and original signal separately. I know said something about in the studio tour video for the control room.
You should show how it actually works in a recording situation for beginners like me to understand more imo
We better figuring it out on ower own
agreed, he showed how to use it but not what it actually does. I'm still lost
Thank you , this is the first video i understand clearly !
I leave that here for people who buyed the NEUTRIK NYS-SPP-L1 for a deeper understanding concerning when and how we
have to flip the internal patch channel cards .
for the NEUTRIK NYS-SPP-L1 for the setup you explained :
The first half of the Patch 1 to 12 , Upper raw OUT come from Preamps & bottom raw IN go to sound interface's Inputs,
This HALF-NORMAL mode is how this NYS-SPP-L1 is setup on all the 24 points by Default , so we don't have to flip those
connectors cards from 1 to 12.
2nd Half of the Patch 13 to 24 is for some comp / eq / fx ( useless for them to feed into themself ) , So we have to remove
the Face of the patch to flip the connectors cards that way : the only one "GREY ring" located > "Face panel & bottom INPUT raw" (by default) after flipping the card must be located on : " Back panel & upper OUTPUT raw " ; That way all outputs from the processors units plugged at "Back & Upper Output raw" will automatically Isolate the upper raw from the bottom raw and avoid some feed a processor or guitar pedal in itself .
Good lookin for sharing Ryan. can u do a vid on connecting the back of the patchbay. you will be the first explaining.Thanks
That's a fantastic idea. Thanks!
Great explanation and example. I watched 3-4 videos and it just wasn't clicking in my head. Thank you sir.
Nice, glad I could help!
That is very helpful for me. I always forgot where in and out was .The "Waterfall" is a simple example to remember. Thank you so much
Great video! Is there anything to be aware of when buying patch bays in terms of sound quality? It seems the price range is wide
It's not that hard ,it's really simple ! Oh boy , What a simple explanation .
Do you have a video on how to wire the compressors ex... into the patch bay ??
can a TRS balanced patch bay be used to route TRS single-cable unbalanced stereo signals?
Are the patch cables TRS?
whats going on behind the hardware as far as the cabling?
One other question related to patching mics into bays vrs preamps. How do you deal with clients who want to track synths, drum machines, keyboards, etc from the control room? Many preamps (like the VA 573, CAPI VP28 and SSL VHD) accept those line level devices on the XLR jack.
+explodingPSYCH Excellent point.
Thanks for the video! Your friendly disposition makes learning stuff like this stress free!
Thanks!
so the half normal end of the patchbay is already setup how you want as default in the back of the patchbay?
Yeah preamp out automatically goes into digital input. Outs automatically go to monitors or headphones via half normaling.
very helpful thanks! could anyone explain if there is a difference between a converter and an audio interface? As far as I can tell they are synonymous? both offer analog to digital conversion for in the box editing. But I am wondering if there's a difference, and if sound quality is enhanced if you have a converter separate from your audio interface. Feels like a dumb question, but i need some clarification... thanks!
Thanks for making this video. The explanations were helpful. It would be helpful to see a camera on the patchbay as you're connecting the cable, and also to be able to hear the differences in sound as you change up the signal flow.
Yeah, I'll make a video about patchbays soon. I need to redo a lot of connections in mine as it's gotten a little disorganized.
Is there any reason not to plug your snake into a patchbay, with inputs to your preamps below?
+explodingPSYCH The biggest reason is phantom power and keeping track of how the patch bay is putting your mics at risk. If you have mics that don't use phantom power, and you patch that mic into a pre that the phantom power is on (Or still draining off), then the 1/4 will short the connections and cause damage. Much better to have an XLR patch bay for doing this. Also, if you have something that is "Normaled" to go to a pre, and a different mic was going into the bottom jack and using phantom, then if you pull out that bottom jack, whatever mic you had from the jack on top, will get routed automatically to that pre, and with phantom.
+creativesoundlab Thanks for the response!
What do you mean by "damage"? I know a select few ribbon mics can be damaged by phantom power, but I've never actually own any mics that are harmed by phantom power. If I don't own any mics that are damaged by phantom power, is using a patchbay this way a problem?
Also: how would an XLR patchbay differ from a TRS patchbay, aside from the obvious connector type?
+explodingPSYCH The answer to both questions is that connector type. When you insert a TRS in, the "T" will make contact with the "R" part, meaning that hot and cold will be crossed or shorted. I wouldn't want to do it with any mic. XLR just keeps all the pins from ever crossing one another. For me, I don't swap out a lot of preamps, so I decide as I'm plugging it in at the snake which pre based on the snare channel number. For example my Warm Audio pres are 9 - 12, and my SCA pres are 1- 8. I'm not sure the damage it would cause a condenser to take the hot and cold and touch them together, (Pins 2 and 3 for most mics) but I won't want to find out. For ribbons, the actual ribbon will dance as a charge is applied to it. Heres a video of that happening. ruclips.net/video/8jsuCgGBQ5A/видео.html
+explodingPSYCH Some mics that aren't damaged by phantom power may still become noisier when recording if phantom power is switched on when the mic doesn't need it. Just thought I'd throw that out there as well.
+creativesoundlab Good point about the tip crossing the ring. I'm still unsure why that would cause any damage. I guess I'll have to poke around now, because now I'm curious! Cool video link, btw.
you have half normaled, normaled, and through. You are just using half-normal and through?
Well, it was half normalled and through. But now, I have more patch bays and it's all half normalled. The return of the outboard comes back on the top row of the next bay. Then normalled to the next outboard, or to the digital in.
Great video thanks Ryan! Can you tell us what cables you are using to come out of your interface into the patchbay? Can you also tell us what cables you are using to come in/out of your preamps and into the patchbay? Thanks
+Benny Turner I don't remember which cables make and model. Most of my cables are mogami and I make them as I need them. For connectors, they are mostly TRS to TRS going to and from the patch bay to the interface. Between the preamps and patch bay, they are XLR to TRS
+creativesoundlab thanks Ryan, yeah it was the connectors I was interested in, brilliant!
Waterfall - an excellent (and simple) way to describe the signal flow in a patchbay. Tip: for better visability you can use cables with more contrasting colours. Good work (as always)!
+Nils Grafö Thanks Nils!
Thanks this is great! I want to use my patchbay for my synth and fx pedals. I was wondering if I used 2 Y cables from stereo in/out of the delay pedal to only one channel of the patchbay, and have my instrument going into and out of this channel will this essentially retain the stereo information? or would this be summed into mono?
A set of this from the in / out of the delay pedal to the patch bay -> www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/trs-insert-cable-kit
Hmm, I really don't know. Balanced and unbalanced can be very complex, and I have the humility to admit when I don't know the answer. :)
thanks ! I guess my question is , will a Y cable work the same as having 2 separate cables for L/R, essentially saving the hassle to have to patch L/R cable individually....
also, how to address stereo signals? thank you
This isn't simple, because you didn't show how to hook things up at the back of the patch bay.
Really great videos.
+BlistaOfficial Thanks! Really appreciate that feedback.
I think where you plugged the cable into the channel where you used for the microphone, really helped prove the point =)
+Søren Sørensen Haha, yeah.
Thanks for sharing Ryan. So the right half of your patchbay is set for "thru", or "non/un-normaled" ?
+Malcolm Palm Yes, "Thru" is the word I was looking for. Yep.
+creativesoundlab So it's like having the back end of your gear right in front of you for easy hook up. I like it.
So is the second half of your patch bay in thru mode or normalised mode? This is where I still get lost :(
Also, what patch patch bay is that?This still helped quite a bit tho! Thanks :)
Yeah, you can take the thing apart and flip the cards around so that it's thru for the effects/processing. It's the patchbay that Neutrik makes.
Got me further than other articles/videos. Still want to see a concrete example using maybe 3 or 4 devices; show how they are wired up to the back, and then labelled and used in front.
Good explanation. Don't know why it should be hard to explain something as simple as this; kudus.
What patchbay are you using?
+Ivan Garcia It's the Neutrik one.
Great explanation! Thank you!
4:30 that's when the Aha! Moment is. Thanks! (And thanks for sharing you teachable moment!)
What is a snake?
It's a single cable with many mic cables inside. In studios it will often go to a box on the wall. For stage and live use, it usually goes to a box on the stage.
I think your videos are awesome, I like your saying water flows down, I think I'll always remember that it makes things seem simple
Right on. I still think of that concept every time.
mate that beep shat me up
Thank you
yes indeed .. very helpful. I think i get it now... thanks!
Awesome
Cool vid. Thanks!
THANKS THIS IS VERY HELPFUL
thanks for sharing, this has been really helpful x
Omg thank you so much for simplifying this!!
Sure thing!
Very helpful
Thanks man!
hellz ya
+Pauly Stax Thanks!
I am going to make myself look like an idiot in a public forum :) .. please do not bash me too much.
I have a DBX - PB - 48, a Scarlett 18i20, a presonus bluetube v2 (preamp) a 4 channel compressor/limiter, a UFX 1604 that I would like to use for eq and one knob compression, an avid eleven rack, an Ampeg SCR-DI, and a couple more gadgets. I always find myself plugging and unplugging my bass and switching it out with a SURE SM78b in Chanel one of the blue tube pre-amp. I would like to stop doing that, but also potentially leverage that pre-amp in different situations. (I use channel 2 dedicated for my DI Guitar). But.. what else could I do?
could I route out a track to the pre-amp? maybe a synth? an EZdrummer kick or snare? then patch those 2 signals into my UFX 1604, then send it back to my preamp then into my interface then into my computer with logic? (totally lost)..
question 1. I guess my question is, how do I hook all of this up to "track" with, and... how do I also set it up to leverage the external gear for pre-amp, EQ and compression while using Logic Pro x or studio one live 4 artist edition?
Well explained!
5:15 EPIC thanks for the video though very usefull. i'm a beginner.
Haha, I forgot about that part.
Why’s that always explain in front but never from the back. If you would it explain first. The back and how it goes in the front it would be easy to understand. Now I am more confused 🤷♂️
We better figuring it out on ower own
Thanks CSL! Great real world trouble shooting too heheheh!!
yeah, tell me about it. Got it working though.
at last I've found the answer!!!!
+Vladimir Sergeev Yes!
Two words: “insert shot”
We can’t se what your doing
I'd have preferred to see how you utilize signal path for tracking vs mixing and therefore showed both the wiring scenarios. Also would have preferred to have viewed the patchbay from overhead (or head on so to speak) rather than look at you talk and plug your cable in to the same spots from a side angle and distance. I generally like your videos but this isn't one of them. I won't thumbs down but I'm not thumbs up either. This is your verbal thumbs down.
I’m more confused now.
What are some questions you have about patch bays? Would love to know.