We’re not so far from it now; so muddled are their concepts of “kinds of love”, that varying by difference as well as degree is lost; “friends with benefits” is even a dated concept, “t’s all “love” now.
I think this is a symptom of modern culture. Have seen how fandoms react to two characters of the same sex just getting along? Modern media, social awkwardness, the removal of the boundaries, and conflating all loves as the same makes people think genuine friendship is pretext for erotic love.
In a way the confusion he gets into with the ruining of friendship also comes out in women commonly now expecting that a prospective husband must also be their “best friend” before considering proposals, etc - I really have to wonder how their actual BFFs would feel, having confided so much in them before the guy proposed and after, as she vacillated.
Its a degeneration of love, they eliminate so much of what it is and what it can be and collapse it all into eros that it ruins many lives and destroy many friendships. Homosexual Revisionists does violence against human love
@tookie36 His opinion was valid. he literally said "I" explaining that he doesn't spend time alone with other women due to sexual attraction(he is married). He is taking steps to protect his marriage. You are cherry picking anything you can find to try to discredit him. Tbh it's embarrassing
@@teamgab7432 he said “I” after saying men and women are different. This is the standard line from catholic apologists. Pints with aquinas said the same thing. Men and women shouldn’t be friends as “just friends” especially while married. Which is fine for a personal life experience but nonsense when it comes to a theological teaching
You people say the whole point of marriage is to create children through the act of sex, then because you also say gays can't reproduce so they aren't allowed to get married but now you're saying sex is irrelevant. I love the moving goalposts, just admit your opinion of gays is your own and you're just hiding behind religion. You just personally think they're "icky".
Unfortunately, the term, "daddy" can have sexual connotation. Imagine watching home movies of a family where the children call their father "daddy" and arguing that those children were in an innappropriate relationship with their father. Thats what is happening here.
Once, at a party, I had a gay man tell me, after learning I'm Catholic, that the only difference between Catholics and gays is that we say "Father, forgive me" and they say "Daddy, I've been naughty." Then he laughed. I said, "No, the difference between us is that you think you're normal and I know you're a degenerate pervert." He stopped laughing.
This is why I find calling God daddy as some priests do in sermons to help them understand the wording Jesus used during the our father, because Abba is essentially daddy. But that word now has terrible connotations.
"Those who cannot conceive friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a friend." C. S. Lewis Edit: I commented this before finishing the video. I should've known Trent would have noted it!
If he were only trying to convince himself it wouldn't be any soul but his own being put into jeopardy. He's guilty of actively perpetuating the confusion, and while I don't doubt that on some level he actually believes his own bovine excrement, it doesn't get him off the hook. Ignorance isn't an indefinite excuse for spiritual blindness.
It's not homosexuality per se, though I would consider that it represents temptation, rather it's the act of sodomy. The modern understanding of homosexuality is same sex attraction, vs. the older form which is what you're using; i.e. a homosexual is a sodomite. Barring that, I completely agree with you that this guy is desperately trying to rationalize his temptation (assuming he's not a sodomite) by committing another grievous sin; bearing false witness, in this case against God's Holy Ones, and then by extension, God Himself.
I completely understand why homosexual people have a hard time imagining 2 men cant love each other deeply without being sexual. It's the same thing as how some men don't think they can have a relationship with a woman without being sexual. It is a lust problem.
@@femaleKCRoyalsFan I'm not a fan of star wars so I really can't understand your example. I'm raised in a society with no homosexuality so I see this phenomena in straight men and women where just normal friendship are viewed in sexual ways
That’s one of the reasons I have a hard time listening to some of the audio commentary on the extended editions of the Lord of the rings DVDs, because the actor who is gay, who played the Christ figure Gandalf, was so happy when Sam touched Frodo’s hand. this man is gay, He’s a homosexual that thinks that Sam and Frodo are gay because that’s the way his demented brain works.
@joshuataylor3550 I'm sorry it's hard for you to swallow that homosexuality is a mortal sin. The Bible doesn't change because of your opinion, Have a great day.
@@Truthseekingcatholic 'Mortal sin' or 'sin' in general means nothing to people who aren't theists.And given that the West is rapidly secularizing every passing day, your words will continue to have less and less impact on people's lives, and this must be hard to come to terms with. How else will insecure people get to satisfy their superiority complexes?
I've seen a lot of people try to do this in fiction as well. Especially with Frodo and Sam from Lord of the Rings. Like, have y'all never had a homie you'd go on an adventure and carry up a mountain for???
Love the way you phrased this hahaha. My adventure homie is significantly more athletic than me which means I could only carry him emotionally while he could also throw me up the mountain physically lol
_"...these mental gymnastics..."_ LOL, from someone who literally worship cannibalism and propitiatory human sacrifice based solely on a fictional character.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Are you denying that the literal worship of propitiatory human sacrifice is the core tenet of Christianity? You know... that cross thing and John 3:16. Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it: "He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all." (Romans 8:32) "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." (1 Corinthians 5:7) "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement." (Romans 3:25) "God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us." (Romans 5:8) "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ." (Hebrews 10:10)
The LGBT movement has absolutely destroyed male comradery. You can hardly hug another guy in public without people thinking "gay". Believe it or not, guys can show affection for one another without having sexual desires.
Adelphopoesis was also practiced by nobles in many other countries, in truth it's mostly was a get out of "supporting the state by leaving your estate witouth an heir" card, by finding someone who is of noble blood and who may sire offspring and thus gift that "brother of yours" in wealth, ofc I'm not of the byzantine rite and I only studied it as a medieval (and pre civil state) law to fix inheritance issues. Buuut if you would have a relationship with your brother in blood you are sick. Also, having a deep and caring friendship, being interpreted as gay is showing how few deep friendships they had.
Oh, this makes a lot of sense. It seems to have started as a way for soldiers to provide for that unmarried sister left back home, or to leave their stuff to a battle buddy if they didn't survive. (And as a Christian version of the pagan blood brotherhood practiced by various steppe tribes.) But obviously it would be valuable for people with a lot more stuff, also.
This reminds me of the argument that Christ himself was gay. Because Saint John was his "beloved" and he left him to care for his mother. They'll latch onto anything.
No the Early Christians did not! The Early Christians believed the same as the Jews that Marriage was a sacred covenant or a sacrament between God, Man, and Woman for the purposes of worship and procreation.
@@TheCounselofTrentactually upon closer inspection those verses describe the fellowship you find yourself in. Who you are authentically is actively being dominated by the ideal you. That's the bad kind of ss relationship the Bible is talking about. Is Jesus your husband? Because you're cheating on him.
@@t.j.armendariz354 people want to be the best. And when they find out what God's best is they become ashamed and try to become like that thing. It's called Falling for unrealistic standards. God gives without measure to those who Trust him. As for those who want God's measure they trust the serpent. The bringer of knowledge
I'm so grateful that I grew up in a family with cultural roots in Italy. It has always been completely normal for us to greet friends with hugs and kisses on the cheek. Of course it has always left me baffled at this "ermagerd that's gay" mentality that's so common here in the US since that was never part of my experience growing up. It comes across as very insecure about one's sexuality to accuse men of being gay just because they have affection for one another. My best friend and I call each other "brothers" and have always given each other big old hugs and cheek kisses and cried on each others' shoulders when we were going through emotional hardships. Nothing gay about it. It makes me sad for people who don't have these kinds of friendships because it must be very difficult feeling like you can't have that type of relationship to help you get through the troubles in life. Who do such people reach out to when they are suffering? No one? Do they simply suffer alone? It's very sad. Edit: I'd also note that there is a complete double standard here. Women who are friends call each other "girlfriends" and give each other hugs and kisses and will hold hands and go to the bathroom together, etc., and no one bats an eye over it, but if two men do anything even remotely similar they must be gay.
EVEN if Saints Sergius and Baccus were gay (which I think is obviously false), you could very easily argue their martyrdom washed away their sins of homosexuality. This means the example fails on all fronts.
@@t.j.armendariz354 I'm just here to discuss the literature with you. I'm not a religious person. According to the literature what is Christ like is what's rejected by religious people for not following their religious laws. I find no fault with the LGBT whatsoever. What have they done? what say you?
@ddrse they violate God's law Jesus didn't come to abolish anything but rather to fulfill them and allow their true expression to come through from his sacrifice on the cross, salvation now comes from keeping Christ's laws and obedience to his commandments, Christ is not some rebel fighting the power of religious authority, he came to tear down hypocrites who twisted God's laws,
Woah woah woah, you claim that the work of "martyrdom" will "wash away sin" in some way, but does that run contrary to what we know of soteriology based upon the Bible as it tells us the only thing that washes away sin is the blood of Christ? ✝️ Only God forgives sins and only the works of God, that being the incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, are the works that wash us and sanctify us. The act of dying for our faith in no way washes away any sin.
I am a male suffering SSA and while attending Catholic support groups like desert stream, I noticed some kind of a trend: Male with SSA often (not always) came from a background where the love and affection of a father is absent from their childhood. Hence, this craving of love from a male. Then it got tangled and SSA people tended to sexualise these cravings. But we did not realise that there is always a Father who loves us so much since we were born into this world, our Heavenly Father.
Thank you for sharing your experience, and amen! I hope you're finding all the peace and and encouragement you need in the support groups and local Catholic community. Praying for you, brother :)
Not true. Men just seem to care less about bonding with their children do on average in the older generations because "it's not manly". The "it's not manly because that's the woman's job" is the mentality lots of traditionalists unwittingly support without realizing it.
I still LOVE to see God's rainbow in the sky because that rainbow IS His. The promise that He made is still present in that rainbow, and even the LBGTQ+ movement cannot take God's rainbow away. All they can do is try to copy it, which they have, but their rainbow is not as bright or translucent as God's. But you are right in the fact that their rainbow is sickening and disgusting and one can't even stand to look at them plastered all over the place. I used to love buying rainbow stickers and drawing rainbows and now I'm afraid to use any sort of rainbow whatsoever because I never ever want to be misunderstood as being in support of that movement. It is sad that they had to choose to use a copycat version of God's rainbow as their symbol. But that is what the devil does....copies in a sick way everything that God has created. The devil has his time now, but I look forward to the day when he will be forever defeated.
The "Pride" movement tends to have only 6 colors in the rainbow, when it should have 7. "7" is the representation of perfection in the Bible, and "6" is associated with the evil one.
Don't quit loving rainbows just because LBTGQ movement tried to steal it. It's a sign from God that he will never destroy the earth with water again. It is yours, mine and all peoples to enjoy. A gift from God not the property of the LBGTQ movememt
3:13. The insistence on conflating the fight against racism with biblically defined sin is astounding. But I guess it's been stunningly effective so far.
without understanding the causes of homosexual inclinations, it is hard to know whether they were just as common in the past as they are now. The world today is very different than it was before; industrial revolution exposing to chemicals and pollutants most of humanity didn't deal with before, sedentary lifestyles, diet changes, different roles for men/women, co-ed schooling, common presence of sexualized images in culture, etc., if any of those things are impacting the development of the brain and sexual identity, then it is going to be hard to prove that what we are seeing today with the development of such inclinations in people was still happening in the same way thousands of years ago.
Just the idea you've placed here is a sin because it assumes God can be wrong depending on time as if He isn't all-knowing. A sin is a sin regardless of the time in history we find ourselves in and no excuse will save someone unwilling to repent. If anything the age of information means almost NO ONE can claim ignorance of God's laws as the information is at anyone's fingertips. Each person will have to answer for their life which means none of the excuses you listed will do. Those who contributed to this disgusting lifestyle by creating/compounding the issues with their ideologies (sexual revolution, freemasonry, communism et. al.)/products (birth control, porn, medications, etc.) will have to answer for their individual sins. This is the problem with many people (yourself included), you believe you will be judged as a "group" under the idea of "if and then". "IF I watched porn, but I didn't make the porn myself, THEN God won't punish me for my sin..." as if God will excuse any mortal sin done willingly without repentance. God is unchanging as are His laws, it is OUR obligation to bend to HIS WILL regardless of what point in History we are in and grow in our faith so we aren't deceived into excusing our sinful behavior. To believe we can be released of our sins by some "loophole" means we don't serve God but our own sin-prone will. Please stop making excuses as it will only lead to eternal damnation and educate yourself.
Considering Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, they were quite common, perhaps even more so, also most schooling was done at home until recently so it was co-ed
@@t.j.armendariz354 Rome and Greece were not gay cultures as the common stereotype wants it. Gay relationships were considered a decadent condition of mind and the sex among two men absolutely a sign of turning them to women.
@@Λουθηρανισμός having spend a fair degree of time studying Ancient Greece and Rome, while much of society makes it out as constant, every day occurrences, men “topping” boys of lower social stature was relatively common in the upper escalóns, along with many other perversions. One Roman emperor found a boy who looked like a wife he had had killed, and so dressed the boy up as a woman and “married” “her”, and as Trent and Michael point out in the longer video they did, at one point debauchery was common enough that one historian wrote of a city that “here they do not yet have s*x in the streets”
@@t.j.armendariz354 none of these practices were considered ''normal'', but decadent practices. I am against the stereotypical thought spread throughout the world that ''romans and, especially, greeks were gays''. This is a myth based on nothing at all, no evidence at all. Anglosaxon world was and is deeply puritanical, i.e. sex-centered with a paranoid way, and created these myths against foreign cultures. This is unacceptable and wrong.
Correct, it is from 'gaiety', which in turn is from 'gaudete' [to rejoice]. IDK when the meaning changed, although language does evolve. It may have been in the 1970s, my father, at the time ran a small business which sold, among other things, greeting cards. He had to withdraw from sale and destroy some invitation cards which said ''Please come to a Gay Party'' due to the change in meaning. Similarly there used to be a hymn sang in church which contained the line ''May we be in season grave and in season gay''. That certainly can no longer be used, it would no longer fit the tune if the wording was changed.
Sergius and Bacchus were the number one and number two commanders of the Scholas Gentilium, who were the imperial bodyguards at the time. If they had been doing each other, that would have been a violation of conduct, and also corrupt dealing. Yet they are portrayed as being excellent soldiers and commanders, to the point that they are compared to shining stars. Their household servants are so loyal that they come with them to try and help. They had several visions of angels encouraging them to persevere and come work for the heavenly court (not to mention Sergius singing psalms as cadence calls while running in shoes with spiked nails inside them). They are praised for being pure, and they tell other people to live morally pure lives as well as ceasing to be pagan. Voices from Heaven praise them publicly, so that even the pagans hear. After all this, there's one scene where Sergius is depressed that his exec Bacchus died first, and Bacchus appears to him to cheer him up. And Sergius does cheer up, and goes to martyrdom cheerfully (with the cadence call), and gets accused of sorcery because he gets miraculously healed after all this miraculous running. It is a bad joke to portray them as gay lovers. They are supposed to be examples of military officers who are enthusiastic Christians (and enthusiastic psalm singers and orators). They are also a warning that sometimes other friends whom one has helped will not return that loyalty, as the imperial governor who tortures and executes them is the same (pagan) friend whom Sergius recommended for the job.
10:50 I don't like how he purposefully frames his sentence here. "However regardless if you believe Sergius and Bacchus were g*y l*vers or not..." where the presumption is "yes they were."
Grasping at straws. More likely the history of male friendship was often one of extemely close bonds which has become less common in modern times. My own opinion. Someone else mentioned Frodo and Sam in LotR. As a child I remember other men and boys mocking their relationship whereas I saw this relationship as something to aspire to. edit: I commented before Trent had concluded his point about friendships. I think it's a great idea
The reason that the story of Ss. Sergius and Bacchus talks about chastity so much, is that Roman soldiers at the time were not supposed to get married until after they had finished their service years (I think 20), and could not get legally married until they got out. Most soldiers either went to brothels or took concubine wives, whom they might legally marry later, and with whom they often had kids. Concubines weren't considered fitting for high-status officers, though, who were supposed to wait and legally marry nice girls from nice knight- or senatorial-level families, before continuing their political careers. The story portrays both men as having risen high in the ranks while still too young to marry legally, so we don't know if they (or their families) had any fiancees in mind. But the point was that, as Christians, they couldn't be doing anything without a Christian marriage; and in general, the Church did not like to go against the secular law in this kind of matter. So a Christian soldier had to prepare to be chaste for a long time, and thus there are early comparisons between Christian soldiers and monks, as both being spiritual athletes who had to avoid sex while "in training." The bit where the emperor makes the guys wear women's clothing as a disgrace, is probably taken over from much later stories of stuff that Emperor Julian the Apostate did to Christian soldiers, because Julian was kinda stupid about that. Other emperors were more careful about how they treated members of their bodyguard, just in case the rest of the bodyguard decided to kill them instead of guarding them, like the Praetorian Guard used to do. (Which was why a different group was doing the guarding for Galerius, and why other different bodyguard units would later replace this one.)
It's scary to think that some unsuspecting kid could hear this guy and think he's an authority on historical matters of any kind, let alone presuming to somehow magically know that the innermost thoughts and feelings of ancient peoples were really just like his own immature and perverse ones
Well you would just be wrong. Comparing modern people to ancient peoples is just wrong. We are similar on a basic sense but the way we live our lives varies greatly for region to region and time to time.
members of this community must understand that two men or women are not in a spiritual relationship but carnal. A spiritual relationship is trusting God in his healing and blessing through the sacraments of His Church
@@mason4966 The Spiritual has been made flesh. we know what is good and what is bad because Jesus Christ true God has become man and has taught us. There is nothing more objective than God. And He does not stop there. He offers his life to all sinners because he loves us.
"Beyond merely platonic." That's until when you learn that platonic love is ranked higher than marital love in classical philosophy. Having sexual intercourse with someone does not imply a greater love. The greatest love that there is (which is God) is everything but sexual. There is nothing beyond the divine love, and at a human scale, nothing beyond platonic love.
All one has to do is look at the bonds of friendship formed by men in the military, especially if they serve in combat together. They are brothers in arms bonded for life in blood and truly love one another, but that doesn’t mean they are sexually attracted to each other.
Trent going hard on this. "Noo, fake persecution is when you think people are trying to commit genocide against you because they simply won't go along with the mistaken idea that a woman can have a penis" I'm here for it!
God bless brother Trent. Amazing video per usual and I especially enjoyed your conversation with Mike Jones on this topic. I was wondering if there was any way I could get in contact with you to seek advice on joining another church, etc. As I stand now I'm non denominational, but I'm also living a life that isn't glorifying God because of unrepentant sins. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Hey bro, I'm not Trent, but I'd recommend you just find the nearest English-speaking Orthodox Church near you, start going on Sunday, make sure to stay for lunch and any classes/discussions the priest has! Spending time in serious prayer and worship will help you develop spiritually, big time. If you're more persuaded by the western church's historical claims (Papacy, etc) - then a Byzantine Catholic church has the same liturgy, fasting practices, etc as the Orthodox Church :)
@@loosetube5417 Thank you very much brother, tbh, I'm not really sure what to believe in terms of sacraments, practices, and whatnot. If anything, I'm just trying to find a new church where I can grow more since I don't feel myself growing at my current one. I'm also looking for one where I can get advice, counselling and mental help regarding sinful behaviors and my destructive ways of thinking. I'm not opposed to either denomination, Catholicism or Orthodox because in the end, I know we're all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Trent (or Vanessa, whoever’s reading), could you do an episode about how marriage is good for women? I really enjoyed the “marriage is good for men” episode, and I’d love to hear the argument from the other side
Traditional Christian marriage means bowing down before your husband and making yourself a slave unto him. The benefit is relenquishing your humanity and becoming a piece of property in order to bear his children. So great for women, amirite?
I think it’s nonsense too. I experience SSA but I’m rarely attracted to women however by his logic I’m not supposed to have any friends because I’m attracted to women and men are attracted to me…
@@Spicypapi333 right? Trent blames LGBT agendas for sexualizing everything and then sexualizes men and women friendships. It’s wild that this has become normalized in Christian circles
You're right Trent, now they're saying Bert and Ernie are gay. 😢 Anything with two men are suddenly gay now with no regard to the original's artist's intent or wishes.
thank you for your videos Trent, i grew up Catholic but strayed away from it as i got older. recently i’ve been coming back to it and your videos are helping a lot as i try to decide between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. no matter which i pick i think ill always be able to come back to your videos. keep it up!!
The pictures are being observed through "modern eyes." Those icons are still pictures which are trying to indicate their intense love or friendship for each other in a "moment caught in time." Think about our photos today. Rarely would we photograph two unrelated men embracing. We would be more comfortable with two women doing this, at least we were until the LGBTQ agenda made its mark on our society. But also, reflect on our movies, even now. It is not abnormal to see men who are good friends embrace or even sometimes kiss each other (say on the forehead) in a movie. We are just used to having our "pictures" move so we see the whole context of the moment. This is where those who look back into the ancient past will make mistakes because they are judging with a modern frame of reference.
I visited the local Georgian Orthodox Church where my friend goes and I was struck by how affectionately tactile the Georgian men were with one another without being remotely effeminate. I had recently learned that pride parades are absolutely not tolerated in Georgia, which really added to my existing suspicion that this movement (which I used to support and identify with before Christ illuminated my own confusion) has sexualised natural masculine affection in the minds of modern men. Here were men from a relatively unaffected culture being more affectionate than any I had seen before. I also heard a long time ago that men in Britain were quite affectionate and would even hold hands until Oscar Wilde went to prison and they worried about being mistaken for homosexuals. I haven't fact checked that though.
Love this rebuttal so much! It’s true that one of the casualties of the LGBT movement has been a loss of deeper intimacy in male friendships. We’ve overcorrected so much that we’ve lost the level the brotherhood that the we could have among men. We need to take back what the LGBT perversion has robbed from Christian culture.
9/10, if someone doesn't understand deep, meaningful, platonic friendships, he was done dirty by Uncle Bad-Touch, or someone similar. I know this isn't a polite way to say that, but the m-word can get a comment deleted.
The image of Paul and Peter just reminds me of how French men greet each other with kisses on the cheek! It’s normal in the Mediterranean world to do this and totally platonic. It’s so gross how American society sexuales everything
I don't think. Very many people fit into that category. But ironically traditionalism made that way of thinking Probably more common in the past than it is today. Since sex before marriage was looked down a pon and everyone married at 18.
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One reason secular people are so obsessed with lgbt is because they think it can be a strong arrow to take down Christianity. Also to try to muddy the waters on the spiritual concept of the family to say anything goes
This was a good rebuttal. I think it also helps to look at the actual text of the rite of Adelphopoeisis, because that's where Boswell, et al, produce the red-herring of the equating of "genesthai/γενέσθαι" ("belong," cf. Rom. 7:4: "belong to another [ie. Christ]" [RSVCE]) which is used in the original Greek text with "genetai/γένηται" ("marry," cf. Rom. 7:3: "if she marries another man" [RSVCE]), arguing for a skewed translation owing to the same root.
Yeah, all you gotta do is cast doubt on the established tradition of the Church. That's enough to give rise to historical revisionism. Another reason Protestantism is problematic.
Soldiers throughout history that fought together often formed extremely close bonds due to their shared experiences being at risk of death for extended periods of time. The vast, vast majority of these relationships were in no way homosexual.
Trying to rewrite homosexuality into Christian history AND insulting Skillet's music? How dare he! "Wishful thinking." That's exactly what queer historical revisionism is, just wishful thinking. If these men were gay, the words used to describe their relationship would be EXPLICITLY, INARGUABLY gay terms, not words that mean "supposedly, possibly gay." I see this erasure of platonic friendships in much of the media I consume. If two characters of the same sex have anything in common, everyone jumps to saying "oh! They must be gay! Quick, let's draw art of them kissing and write erotic about them!" It is desperate to say the least.
At about 4:17, I would like to point out that in many European and South American cultures, people of all genders greet each other with a kiss. Even people who are not good friends greet each other this way in Argentina. Kissing actually replaces a hand shake.
One big problem today is that love is often reduced to romantic love. When people talk about love, they mostly think about romantic relationships. Another issue is how friendships are portrayed. In movies and shows, when there are two friends of the same sex, fans or society often try to turn it into a romantic relationship, or "ship" it, instead of recognizing and valuing it as a friendship.
It must be a very sad existence on this planet to have almost every aspect of one's life and outlook be consumed and formulated by what gets one off sexually. There is SO much more to life than sex.
Trent, I ask this as a Lutheran, so there is my background/bias out of the way! I love your content, and I think it would be fascinating to see you compare various Protestant traditions by degree of error in your eyes. While I’m sure you see all these “Departed Brethren” as theologically misguided, I’d find it fascinating to see your unique and wonderful style lay out how much more similar classical Protestants like Lutherans and Anglicans are to your faith than more contemporary Evangelical groups like Baptists, much less fully far-gone groups like Pentecostals and Non-Denominationals that academics should frankly stop labeling as Protestant.
@@dyzmadamachus9842 Honestly, historically Protestant services weren’t much different. Lutheran and Anglican ones were REALLY similar to Catholic Mass, but even Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Methodist, etc. liturgy wasn’t THAT different. Baptists really abandoned all tradition about 30 years ago, and all of the contemporary Evangelicals further abandoned their heritages after that.
@@mason4966 'What If' is speculation without evidence to support it. 'What is' on the other hand, is evidenced by recorded actions. There are no recorded actions of homosexuality in the life of St. John Bosco.
Still waiting for any religion to prove the existence of any supernatural being or beings. Until then any assertions without proof can be dismissed as worthless.
@@Malygosblues Depends who you ask. Some would say the cosmos was never created that it always existed in one form or another, others would say a creator of one form or another but disagree on its characteristics, A solipsist would say its a creation of his own mind and nothing actually exist except itself. Etc., etc. Seem that an action would require a reaction and a reaction would be caused by an action. Seems irrelevant to ask that question about a merry go round.
@asunder6797 Exactly. Because everyone already knows the old news: Everyone of intelligence already knows God's existence was proven long ago. Glad we agree, bro.
As an Italian we would be all gay according to Americans because we kiss as a greeting the same is done in many other countries like Greece France Spain etc... 😂
The Pillar & Ground of Truth by Pavel Florensky, the Da Vinci of Eastern Orthodoxy, gives an excellent description of actual adelphopoesis which was practiced in the Easterm Church up until the 20th Century...so we have literal modern examples of the practice to reference.
I'm particularly amused by how he uses his experience being raise in what sounds like a very WASPy tradition as somehow anything relevant to historical Christianity. Throughout souther Europe Eastern Europe, and Latin America you can find societies rife with men being able to form close bonds and lots of touching and hugging. He seems to be using a rather anomalous norther European / Anglo American modern cultural insecurities as if they represent the history of Christian cultures. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But, sheesh, even in the Anglo WASP world there were fraternities and military societies and other all male social clubs and binding that was part and parcel to the culture. It's only very, very recently in a historical sense that such institutions have been under such attack as exclusively male. And, as Trent notes, our modern peculiarities have us looking back at many of these institutions and seeing them as somehow decidedly "gay," a proclivity capitalized in by these activists trying to push their narrative. Was there homosexual relationships or pursuits back then? No doubt, and the now oft-disparage clear prohibitions against homosexuals in these all male institutions seems to speak specifically to the realization of how certain people were inclined, so as to explicitly keep that out of the picture.
I think your take is right, but I find it weird how prominent this issue is. It should be as “essential” as one’s views on how literal Genesis is or one’s views on eschatology … aka, maybe important but not anywhere near enough to divide the Body of Christ. People are treating this like it’s as make-or-break as believing in the Trinity.
@@TheCounselofTrent And FTR, I’m DEFINITELY not saying Trent is doing this! It’s just a problem I see a lot. Trent, as always, approaches it with nuance.
In modern greek history, also, there was this practice of ''αδελφοποίηση'' and never, never was considered a kind of homosexual relationships. This practice was followed as an alliance of blood among former enemies or a bond of blood among friends. The interpretation american gays give to this practice is a disgusting kind of american culture imperialism and Greece should react. Unfortunately, Greece is now as woke as US is, because everything America invents some greek scholars bring it immediately here and they teach it in the Universities. The West is lost.
John Boswell's thesis has been badly panned in the secular historical community and left to the side. I studied medieval history and literature, with a specialization on performance studies in that period. The revisionism in pro-LGBTQ movements of activism is just crazy!
Severus, the Patrioch of Antioch (512-518 CE) explained that “we should not separate in speech they [Sergius and Bacchus] who were joined in life.” This wasn’t a simple case of adelphopoiia. In the definitive 10th century account of their lives, St. Sergius is openly celebrated as the “sweet companion and lover” and of St. Bacchus. The most compelling evidence found is that the oldest text of their martyrology, written in New Testament Greek describes them as “erastai,” or “lovers!” In other words, they were a male homosexual couple. Their orientation and relationship was not only acknowledged, but it was fully accepted and celebrated by the early Christian Church which was far more tolerant than today.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Two of the biggest casualties of the LGBTQ movement are male friendships, and tomboys.
Male Friendship?
I think you meant Femboys or Homosexuality
And children
@@kenzietyaga9035 He's talking about casualties...
@@Quekksilber oh wait yeah, my mistake
And women and girls. Essentially, everyone.
I am utterly disgusted of how these people rush to imply brotherhood means erotic relationship.
We’re not so far from it now; so muddled are their concepts of “kinds of love”, that varying by difference as well as degree is lost; “friends with benefits” is even a dated concept, “t’s all “love” now.
I think this is a symptom of modern culture. Have seen how fandoms react to two characters of the same sex just getting along?
Modern media, social awkwardness, the removal of the boundaries, and conflating all loves as the same makes people think genuine friendship is pretext for erotic love.
In a way the confusion he gets into with the ruining of friendship also comes out in women commonly now expecting that a prospective husband must also be their “best friend” before considering proposals, etc - I really have to wonder how their actual BFFs would feel, having confided so much in them before the guy proposed and after, as she vacillated.
Its a degeneration of love, they eliminate so much of what it is and what it can be and collapse it all into eros that it ruins many lives and destroy many friendships. Homosexual Revisionists does violence against human love
You know
I once told an lgbt peraon that God and Jesus loves them
Response:
"So God is queer"
Implying that love meant sexual desire.
They can't conceive of a relationship that doesn't involve sex. Sad. 😢
Compulsive sexuality
13:20 and yet Trent doesn’t think men and women can be friends alone… bc he can’t think of a relationship that doesn’t involve sex
@tookie36 His opinion was valid. he literally said "I" explaining that he doesn't spend time alone with other women due to sexual attraction(he is married).
He is taking steps to protect his marriage. You are cherry picking anything you can find to try to discredit him.
Tbh it's embarrassing
@@teamgab7432 he said “I” after saying men and women are different. This is the standard line from catholic apologists. Pints with aquinas said the same thing. Men and women shouldn’t be friends as “just friends” especially while married. Which is fine for a personal life experience but nonsense when it comes to a theological teaching
You people say the whole point of marriage is to create children through the act of sex, then because you also say gays can't reproduce so they aren't allowed to get married but now you're saying sex is irrelevant. I love the moving goalposts, just admit your opinion of gays is your own and you're just hiding behind religion. You just personally think they're "icky".
I understand Tren'ts frustation at this point. It's digusting how they try to twist the life of the saints for their degenerate agenda.
thats the homophobic agenda for u sadly
Unfortunately, the term, "daddy" can have sexual connotation.
Imagine watching home movies of a family where the children call their father "daddy" and arguing that those children were in an innappropriate relationship with their father.
Thats what is happening here.
👏👏👏
Once, at a party, I had a gay man tell me, after learning I'm Catholic, that the only difference between Catholics and gays is that we say "Father, forgive me" and they say "Daddy, I've been naughty." Then he laughed. I said, "No, the difference between us is that you think you're normal and I know you're a degenerate pervert." He stopped laughing.
This is why I find calling God daddy as some priests do in sermons to help them understand the wording Jesus used during the our father, because Abba is essentially daddy. But that word now has terrible connotations.
There’s a reason the LGBT movement is twisted and their sexual actions are sinful.
Normal things in LGTV "families" sadly 💀
"Those who cannot conceive friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a friend."
C. S. Lewis
Edit: I commented this before finishing the video. I should've known Trent would have noted it!
haha beat you to it! -Vanessa
This rings so true today. I also suspect in today's times, "father" could be substituted for friend in many cases.
@@TheCounselofTrentall sects of Christianity are equally valid, in the sense that none of them have any validity whatsoever.
This guy only trying to convince himself. The fact that homosexuality is a grave sin is an infallible dogma.
If he were only trying to convince himself it wouldn't be any soul but his own being put into jeopardy. He's guilty of actively perpetuating the confusion, and while I don't doubt that on some level he actually believes his own bovine excrement, it doesn't get him off the hook. Ignorance isn't an indefinite excuse for spiritual blindness.
It's not homosexuality per se, though I would consider that it represents temptation, rather it's the act of sodomy. The modern understanding of homosexuality is same sex attraction, vs. the older form which is what you're using; i.e. a homosexual is a sodomite.
Barring that, I completely agree with you that this guy is desperately trying to rationalize his temptation (assuming he's not a sodomite) by committing another grievous sin; bearing false witness, in this case against God's Holy Ones, and then by extension, God Himself.
no homophobia is a grave sin. Always was.
@@pastorbri huh? Not sure that I understand your post
@@pastorbri btw, catechism disagrees with you in fact it says it is a grave depravity.
I completely understand why homosexual people have a hard time imagining 2 men cant love each other deeply without being sexual.
It's the same thing as how some men don't think they can have a relationship with a woman without being sexual. It is a lust problem.
I’m sure there’s some people that think Han Solo and Luke Skywalker can’t be good friends and care about each other
@@femaleKCRoyalsFan I'm not a fan of star wars so I really can't understand your example.
I'm raised in a society with no homosexuality so I see this phenomena in straight men and women where just normal friendship are viewed in sexual ways
lust is a sin but love is not is the difference
Exactly.
@@sandstorm7768 Many gay men love other men non sexually old bean
Every time someone implies Frodo and Sam were more than just friends, an Ainur loses its wings.
That’s one of the reasons I have a hard time listening to some of the audio commentary on the extended editions of the Lord of the rings DVDs, because the actor who is gay, who played the Christ figure Gandalf, was so happy when Sam touched Frodo’s hand. this man is gay, He’s a homosexual that thinks that Sam and Frodo are gay because that’s the way his demented brain works.
You mean they aren't Joe Biden supporters? Oh man, I'm so confused!
It's headshake worthy. Sam fantasizes about Rosie and has children with her, and Frodo (to my knowledge) has no sexual thoughts about anyone.
The singular form is Ainu :) Ainur is plural
@@VanchaMarch2 Okay, nerd! (((THANK YOU.)))
> sighs < These people are so tiresome.
yes homophobics are
Soooo tiresome.
@@StringofPearls55 thats the homophobic community for u
Hey Trent! Thanks for rebutting the nonsense of the people who attempt to rewrite the history of Christianity. God bless.
Hi Daniel, I'm sorry that reality is so hard to swallow. I hope you find the truth one day.
@@joshuataylor3550I'm perfectly in reality! God bless 😊
@joshuataylor3550 I'm sorry it's hard for you to swallow that homosexuality is a mortal sin. The Bible doesn't change because of your opinion, Have a great day.
@@Truthseekingcatholic 'Mortal sin' or 'sin' in general means nothing to people who aren't theists.And given that the West is rapidly secularizing every passing day, your words will continue to have less and less impact on people's lives, and this must be hard to come to terms with. How else will insecure people get to satisfy their superiority complexes?
@@RationalistMH What does this have to do with anything related to the comment thread or video, lmao
I've seen a lot of people try to do this in fiction as well. Especially with Frodo and Sam from Lord of the Rings. Like, have y'all never had a homie you'd go on an adventure and carry up a mountain for???
You’re right about that! -Vanessa
Nah, all they can think is brokeback mountain
Love the way you phrased this hahaha. My adventure homie is significantly more athletic than me which means I could only carry him emotionally while he could also throw me up the mountain physically lol
LOL😂@@eddardgreybeard
@@eddardgreybeardYou're right!!😅❤
People always use these mental gymnastics to try to justify their sinful ways.
My mom's "I'm not the one who is married so I'm not committing adultery" is my favorite.
Unlike you, of course, the holier than thou Catholic informing us of how depraved those 'people' are.
_"...these mental gymnastics..."_
LOL, from someone who literally worship cannibalism and propitiatory human sacrifice based solely on a fictional character.
@@EvilXtianity…. are you ok?
@@TitusCastiglione1503
Are you denying that the literal worship of propitiatory human sacrifice is the core tenet of Christianity? You know... that cross thing and John 3:16.
Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it:
"He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all."
(Romans 8:32)
"Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
(1 Corinthians 5:7)
"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement."
(Romans 3:25)
"God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us."
(Romans 5:8)
"We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
(Hebrews 10:10)
The LGBT movement has absolutely destroyed male comradery. You can hardly hug another guy in public without people thinking "gay". Believe it or not, guys can show affection for one another without having sexual desires.
I agree this is getting way out of control to the point where everything that used to be considered compassionate is now considered gay.discusting
😢
And the homophobic movement has destroyed families and relationships .....guess thats better yes?
Right
@@jackieo8693 yes we must help the homophobic community to repent and come back to christ.
@@pastorbri yeah right. Keep up the insanity
6:21 "They're turning the frickin' frogs gay!" - Alex Jones 🐸
Ugh, Mason Mennenga. Good on you for rebutting his blatant revisionist nonsense Trent
Sheesh I'm familiar with you and the Lutheran anime girl haha
Always nice to see you in random Christian channel
Adelphopoesis was also practiced by nobles in many other countries, in truth it's mostly was a get out of "supporting the state by leaving your estate witouth an heir" card, by finding someone who is of noble blood and who may sire offspring and thus gift that "brother of yours" in wealth, ofc I'm not of the byzantine rite and I only studied it as a medieval (and pre civil state) law to fix inheritance issues.
Buuut if you would have a relationship with your brother in blood you are sick. Also, having a deep and caring friendship, being interpreted as gay is showing how few deep friendships they had.
Oh, this makes a lot of sense. It seems to have started as a way for soldiers to provide for that unmarried sister left back home, or to leave their stuff to a battle buddy if they didn't survive. (And as a Christian version of the pagan blood brotherhood practiced by various steppe tribes.) But obviously it would be valuable for people with a lot more stuff, also.
@@suburbanbansheeI was about to mention, it came as a Christian version of the blood brotherhood ceremonies used to cement treaties etc
Yet if we were to revise established Gay history, we would be attacked wouldn’t we? The double standard is infuriating
If they didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have any
@@bennygohome4576 a double standard is no standard at all, so yeah... they've got no standards
Yes you would be called out for lying. But he isn't lying.
This reminds me of the argument that Christ himself was gay. Because Saint John was his "beloved" and he left him to care for his mother.
They'll latch onto anything.
As will all people.
Jesus had feelings too
Short answer to video question: No
Long Answer: Absolutely not
Two words are "long"? Maybe for a......not gonna say it.😊
No the Early Christians did not! The Early Christians believed the same as the Jews that Marriage was a sacred covenant or a sacrament between God, Man, and Woman for the purposes of worship and procreation.
The early Jews and Christians believed that women were property, sold by their fathers like livestock to the highest bidder.
I'd also like to point out that even if this had happened, that wouldn't have legitimized it. It's repeatedly condemned in Scripture.
Interesting point! -Vanessa
@@TheCounselofTrentactually upon closer inspection those verses describe the fellowship you find yourself in. Who you are authentically is actively being dominated by the ideal you. That's the bad kind of ss relationship the Bible is talking about. Is Jesus your husband? Because you're cheating on him.
@@ddrsecan you explain your comment because it makes no sense
@@t.j.armendariz354 people want to be the best. And when they find out what God's best is they become ashamed and try to become like that thing. It's called Falling for unrealistic standards. God gives without measure to those who Trust him. As for those who want God's measure they trust the serpent. The bringer of knowledge
@@t.j.armendariz354 who do you think Trent trusts? God.... or the serpent?
I'm so grateful that I grew up in a family with cultural roots in Italy. It has always been completely normal for us to greet friends with hugs and kisses on the cheek. Of course it has always left me baffled at this "ermagerd that's gay" mentality that's so common here in the US since that was never part of my experience growing up. It comes across as very insecure about one's sexuality to accuse men of being gay just because they have affection for one another. My best friend and I call each other "brothers" and have always given each other big old hugs and cheek kisses and cried on each others' shoulders when we were going through emotional hardships. Nothing gay about it. It makes me sad for people who don't have these kinds of friendships because it must be very difficult feeling like you can't have that type of relationship to help you get through the troubles in life. Who do such people reach out to when they are suffering? No one? Do they simply suffer alone? It's very sad.
Edit: I'd also note that there is a complete double standard here. Women who are friends call each other "girlfriends" and give each other hugs and kisses and will hold hands and go to the bathroom together, etc., and no one bats an eye over it, but if two men do anything even remotely similar they must be gay.
EVEN if Saints Sergius and Baccus were gay (which I think is obviously false), you could very easily argue their martyrdom washed away their sins of homosexuality. This means the example fails on all fronts.
You can be LGBT and Christian 👨❤️👨
@@ddrsedefine what you mean by that
@@t.j.armendariz354 I'm just here to discuss the literature with you. I'm not a religious person. According to the literature what is Christ like is what's rejected by religious people for not following their religious laws. I find no fault with the LGBT whatsoever. What have they done? what say you?
@ddrse they violate God's law Jesus didn't come to abolish anything but rather to fulfill them and allow their true expression to come through from his sacrifice on the cross, salvation now comes from keeping Christ's laws and obedience to his commandments, Christ is not some rebel fighting the power of religious authority, he came to tear down hypocrites who twisted God's laws,
Woah woah woah, you claim that the work of "martyrdom" will "wash away sin" in some way, but does that run contrary to what we know of soteriology based upon the Bible as it tells us the only thing that washes away sin is the blood of Christ? ✝️ Only God forgives sins and only the works of God, that being the incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, are the works that wash us and sanctify us. The act of dying for our faith in no way washes away any sin.
I am a male suffering SSA and while attending Catholic support groups like desert stream, I noticed some kind of a trend:
Male with SSA often (not always) came from a background where the love and affection of a father is absent from their childhood. Hence, this craving of love from a male.
Then it got tangled and SSA people tended to sexualise these cravings.
But we did not realise that there is always a Father who loves us so much since we were born into this world, our Heavenly Father.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! -Vanessa
Thank you for sharing your experience, and amen! I hope you're finding all the peace and and encouragement you need in the support groups and local Catholic community. Praying for you, brother :)
dafuq is ssa?
@@kamikuru4014 Same-sex attraction
Not true. Men just seem to care less about bonding with their children do on average in the older generations because "it's not manly". The "it's not manly because that's the woman's job" is the mentality lots of traditionalists unwittingly support without realizing it.
I remember seeing a rainbow as a child and being so exited. I can’t stand looking at one nowadays
I still LOVE to see God's rainbow in the sky because that rainbow IS His. The promise that He made is still present in that rainbow, and even the LBGTQ+ movement cannot take God's rainbow away. All they can do is try to copy it, which they have, but their rainbow is not as bright or translucent as God's. But you are right in the fact that their rainbow is sickening and disgusting and one can't even stand to look at them plastered all over the place. I used to love buying rainbow stickers and drawing rainbows and now I'm afraid to use any sort of rainbow whatsoever because I never ever want to be misunderstood as being in support of that movement. It is sad that they had to choose to use a copycat version of God's rainbow as their symbol. But that is what the devil does....copies in a sick way everything that God has created. The devil has his time now, but I look forward to the day when he will be forever defeated.
Me too, which is sad because rainbows are supposed to represent God's covenant with us.
The "Pride" movement tends to have only 6 colors in the rainbow, when it should have 7. "7" is the representation of perfection in the Bible, and "6" is associated with the evil one.
Don't quit loving rainbows just because LBTGQ movement tried to steal it. It's a sign from God that he will never destroy the earth with water again. It is yours, mine and all peoples to enjoy. A gift from God not the property of the LBGTQ movememt
Rainbows existed before the flood so that promissory story is merely a mythology.
He’s literally the guy in elementary school who called you and your homie gay because he didn’t have any friends
Savage!
3:13. The insistence on conflating the fight against racism with biblically defined sin is astounding. But I guess it's been stunningly effective so far.
without understanding the causes of homosexual inclinations, it is hard to know whether they were just as common in the past as they are now. The world today is very different than it was before; industrial revolution exposing to chemicals and pollutants most of humanity didn't deal with before, sedentary lifestyles, diet changes, different roles for men/women, co-ed schooling, common presence of sexualized images in culture, etc., if any of those things are impacting the development of the brain and sexual identity, then it is going to be hard to prove that what we are seeing today with the development of such inclinations in people was still happening in the same way thousands of years ago.
Just the idea you've placed here is a sin because it assumes God can be wrong depending on time as if He isn't all-knowing. A sin is a sin regardless of the time in history we find ourselves in and no excuse will save someone unwilling to repent. If anything the age of information means almost NO ONE can claim ignorance of God's laws as the information is at anyone's fingertips.
Each person will have to answer for their life which means none of the excuses you listed will do. Those who contributed to this disgusting lifestyle by creating/compounding the issues with their ideologies (sexual revolution, freemasonry, communism et. al.)/products (birth control, porn, medications, etc.) will have to answer for their individual sins.
This is the problem with many people (yourself included), you believe you will be judged as a "group" under the idea of "if and then". "IF I watched porn, but I didn't make the porn myself, THEN God won't punish me for my sin..." as if God will excuse any mortal sin done willingly without repentance. God is unchanging as are His laws, it is OUR obligation to bend to HIS WILL regardless of what point in History we are in and grow in our faith so we aren't deceived into excusing our sinful behavior. To believe we can be released of our sins by some "loophole" means we don't serve God but our own sin-prone will. Please stop making excuses as it will only lead to eternal damnation and educate yourself.
Considering Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, they were quite common, perhaps even more so, also most schooling was done at home until recently so it was co-ed
@@t.j.armendariz354 Rome and Greece were not gay cultures as the common stereotype wants it. Gay relationships were considered a decadent condition of mind and the sex among two men absolutely a sign of turning them to women.
@@Λουθηρανισμός having spend a fair degree of time studying Ancient Greece and Rome, while much of society makes it out as constant, every day occurrences, men “topping” boys of lower social stature was relatively common in the upper escalóns, along with many other perversions. One Roman emperor found a boy who looked like a wife he had had killed, and so dressed the boy up as a woman and “married” “her”, and as Trent and Michael point out in the longer video they did, at one point debauchery was common enough that one historian wrote of a city that “here they do not yet have s*x in the streets”
@@t.j.armendariz354 none of these practices were considered ''normal'', but decadent practices. I am against the stereotypical thought spread throughout the world that ''romans and, especially, greeks were gays''. This is a myth based on nothing at all, no evidence at all. Anglosaxon world was and is deeply puritanical, i.e. sex-centered with a paranoid way, and created these myths against foreign cultures. This is unacceptable and wrong.
I think in the medieval era the word "gay" meant "cheerful"
Gay meant "happy" as recently as the 50s-60s.
@@RomanDiariesYep, just like the theme song from The Flintstones. “We’ll have a Gay Ole time.”
@@RomanDiaries Correct, it is from 'gaiety', which in turn is from 'gaudete' [to rejoice].
Correct, it is from 'gaiety', which in turn is from 'gaudete' [to rejoice]. IDK when the meaning changed, although language does evolve. It may have been in the 1970s, my father, at the time ran a small business which sold, among other things, greeting cards. He had to withdraw from sale and destroy some invitation cards which said ''Please come to a Gay Party'' due to the change in meaning. Similarly there used to be a hymn sang in church which contained the line ''May we be in season grave and in season gay''. That certainly can no longer be used, it would no longer fit the tune if the wording was changed.
Saw you on InspiringPhilosohy, as someone with homosexual temptations I'm glad you're out here preaching the biblical view
Christ is King.
😂😂😂
I'll say what I said after watching your stream with IP on this video.
Skillet is dope, I don't care what the mullet man says.
IP is based. I've learned life changing things from him.
What do you expect from someone who thinks the anus is a sex organ.
Skillet is dope! No argument here, fellow enjoyer.
Awesome video! God bless you and your family Trent🙏
We appreciate your support! -Vanessa
@@TheCounselofTrent subscribed
Sergius and Bacchus were the number one and number two commanders of the Scholas Gentilium, who were the imperial bodyguards at the time. If they had been doing each other, that would have been a violation of conduct, and also corrupt dealing. Yet they are portrayed as being excellent soldiers and commanders, to the point that they are compared to shining stars. Their household servants are so loyal that they come with them to try and help.
They had several visions of angels encouraging them to persevere and come work for the heavenly court (not to mention Sergius singing psalms as cadence calls while running in shoes with spiked nails inside them). They are praised for being pure, and they tell other people to live morally pure lives as well as ceasing to be pagan. Voices from Heaven praise them publicly, so that even the pagans hear. After all this, there's one scene where Sergius is depressed that his exec Bacchus died first, and Bacchus appears to him to cheer him up. And Sergius does cheer up, and goes to martyrdom cheerfully (with the cadence call), and gets accused of sorcery because he gets miraculously healed after all this miraculous running.
It is a bad joke to portray them as gay lovers. They are supposed to be examples of military officers who are enthusiastic Christians (and enthusiastic psalm singers and orators). They are also a warning that sometimes other friends whom one has helped will not return that loyalty, as the imperial governor who tortures and executes them is the same (pagan) friend whom Sergius recommended for the job.
"People sinned in the past, therefore when we do the same sins now, that means it's not a sin." Pffft 😂
And no evidence that what they cited was even the sin he is trying to justify now anyhow
@@FleurPillager I think Ecclesiastes (Solomon's writings) would throw the idea of "getting rich" out of the window haha
The concept of sin is an entirely made up idea.
@@mason4966Basic knowledge of Right and wrong are engrained on every conscience.
10:50 I don't like how he purposefully frames his sentence here. "However regardless if you believe Sergius and Bacchus were g*y l*vers or not..." where the presumption is "yes they were."
This sentence sounds to me like a "get out of jail card". It's basically a "maybe (probably?) it's not true, I still want to make my point".
Grasping at straws. More likely the history of male friendship was often one of extemely close bonds which has become less common in modern times. My own opinion. Someone else mentioned Frodo and Sam in LotR. As a child I remember other men and boys mocking their relationship whereas I saw this relationship as something to aspire to.
edit: I commented before Trent had concluded his point about friendships. I think it's a great idea
The reason that the story of Ss. Sergius and Bacchus talks about chastity so much, is that Roman soldiers at the time were not supposed to get married until after they had finished their service years (I think 20), and could not get legally married until they got out. Most soldiers either went to brothels or took concubine wives, whom they might legally marry later, and with whom they often had kids. Concubines weren't considered fitting for high-status officers, though, who were supposed to wait and legally marry nice girls from nice knight- or senatorial-level families, before continuing their political careers.
The story portrays both men as having risen high in the ranks while still too young to marry legally, so we don't know if they (or their families) had any fiancees in mind. But the point was that, as Christians, they couldn't be doing anything without a Christian marriage; and in general, the Church did not like to go against the secular law in this kind of matter. So a Christian soldier had to prepare to be chaste for a long time, and thus there are early comparisons between Christian soldiers and monks, as both being spiritual athletes who had to avoid sex while "in training."
The bit where the emperor makes the guys wear women's clothing as a disgrace, is probably taken over from much later stories of stuff that Emperor Julian the Apostate did to Christian soldiers, because Julian was kinda stupid about that. Other emperors were more careful about how they treated members of their bodyguard, just in case the rest of the bodyguard decided to kill them instead of guarding them, like the Praetorian Guard used to do. (Which was why a different group was doing the guarding for Galerius, and why other different bodyguard units would later replace this one.)
i was just reading Plato's Symposium last night, this guy couldn't be more wrong about history
It's scary to think that some unsuspecting kid could hear this guy and think he's an authority on historical matters of any kind, let alone presuming to somehow magically know that the innermost thoughts and feelings of ancient peoples were really just like his own immature and perverse ones
Well you would just be wrong. Comparing modern people to ancient peoples is just wrong. We are similar on a basic sense but the way we live our lives varies greatly for region to region and time to time.
I grew up making more friendships with women than men and CONSTANTLY "OOH y'all goin' out?" Hated it.
members of this community must understand that two men or women are not in a spiritual relationship but carnal. A spiritual relationship is trusting God in his healing and blessing through the sacraments of His Church
Is spirituality a subjective. Everyone's got the their own sense of it. Yours is no more correct than the next person.
@@mason4966 The Spiritual has been made flesh. we know what is good and what is bad because Jesus Christ true God has become man and has taught us. There is nothing more objective than God. And He does not stop there. He offers his life to all sinners because he loves us.
Excellent response as always.
Thank you! We appreciate your support! -Vanessa
"Beyond merely platonic." That's until when you learn that platonic love is ranked higher than marital love in classical philosophy. Having sexual intercourse with someone does not imply a greater love. The greatest love that there is (which is God) is everything but sexual. There is nothing beyond the divine love, and at a human scale, nothing beyond platonic love.
Plato taught God everything he now knows!
All one has to do is look at the bonds of friendship formed by men in the military, especially if they serve in combat together. They are brothers in arms bonded for life in blood and truly love one another, but that doesn’t mean they are sexually attracted to each other.
Trent going hard on this.
"Noo, fake persecution is when you think people are trying to commit genocide against you because they simply won't go along with the mistaken idea that a woman can have a penis"
I'm here for it!
Chronological ethnocentrism twists truth to any conclusion you want.
God bless brother Trent. Amazing video per usual and I especially enjoyed your conversation with Mike Jones on this topic. I was wondering if there was any way I could get in contact with you to seek advice on joining another church, etc. As I stand now I'm non denominational, but I'm also living a life that isn't glorifying God because of unrepentant sins. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Thank you for your comment and support! -Vanessa
Hey bro, I'm not Trent, but I'd recommend you just find the nearest English-speaking Orthodox Church near you, start going on Sunday, make sure to stay for lunch and any classes/discussions the priest has! Spending time in serious prayer and worship will help you develop spiritually, big time.
If you're more persuaded by the western church's historical claims (Papacy, etc) - then a Byzantine Catholic church has the same liturgy, fasting practices, etc as the Orthodox Church :)
@@loosetube5417 Thank you very much brother, tbh, I'm not really sure what to believe in terms of sacraments, practices, and whatnot. If anything, I'm just trying to find a new church where I can grow more since I don't feel myself growing at my current one. I'm also looking for one where I can get advice, counselling and mental help regarding sinful behaviors and my destructive ways of thinking. I'm not opposed to either denomination, Catholicism or Orthodox because in the end, I know we're all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Trent (or Vanessa, whoever’s reading), could you do an episode about how marriage is good for women? I really enjoyed the “marriage is good for men” episode, and I’d love to hear the argument from the other side
Commenting for the algorithm!
Have you tried searching in other Catholic circles?
Traditional Christian marriage means bowing down before your husband and making yourself a slave unto him. The benefit is relenquishing your humanity and becoming a piece of property in order to bear his children. So great for women, amirite?
13:20 what?!? That’s insane. Christian men aren’t suppose to be alone with women platonically ?
I think it’s nonsense too. I experience SSA but I’m rarely attracted to women however by his logic I’m not supposed to have any friends because I’m attracted to women and men are attracted to me…
@@Spicypapi333 right? Trent blames LGBT agendas for sexualizing everything and then sexualizes men and women friendships. It’s wild that this has become normalized in Christian circles
You're right Trent, now they're saying Bert and Ernie are gay. 😢 Anything with two men are suddenly gay now with no regard to the original's artist's intent or wishes.
You’re very right about that! -Vanessa
Man the mental gymnastics the alphabet mob tries to perform can truly astounding....
Alphabet mob xD
Gonna steal that, may come in handy at some point
Do these people not realize that if your best friend died you would be pretty sad?
Seriously...
(You get the sense they have no clue what FRIENDSHIP is!)
thank you for your videos Trent, i grew up Catholic but strayed away from it as i got older. recently i’ve been coming back to it and your videos are helping a lot as i try to decide between Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
no matter which i pick i think ill always be able to come back to your videos. keep it up!!
Thank you so much for your support! -vanesss
The pictures are being observed through "modern eyes." Those icons are still pictures which are trying to indicate their intense love or friendship for each other in a "moment caught in time." Think about our photos today. Rarely would we photograph two unrelated men embracing. We would be more comfortable with two women doing this, at least we were until the LGBTQ agenda made its mark on our society. But also, reflect on our movies, even now. It is not abnormal to see men who are good friends embrace or even sometimes kiss each other (say on the forehead) in a movie. We are just used to having our "pictures" move so we see the whole context of the moment. This is where those who look back into the ancient past will make mistakes because they are judging with a modern frame of reference.
Very true! -Vanessa
Whoever is doing the thumbnails is doing a great job 👍🏻
Thank you for the feedback! -Vanessa
Stay tuned Trent May Come out.
This man drags the name of two Christian saints through the mud because he refuses to see the Truth. That’s sinful. ❤️🔥
This generation never heard of brotherhood
this shouldve been obvious but… no they didn’t.
I visited the local Georgian Orthodox Church where my friend goes and I was struck by how affectionately tactile the Georgian men were with one another without being remotely effeminate. I had recently learned that pride parades are absolutely not tolerated in Georgia, which really added to my existing suspicion that this movement (which I used to support and identify with before Christ illuminated my own confusion) has sexualised natural masculine affection in the minds of modern men. Here were men from a relatively unaffected culture being more affectionate than any I had seen before.
I also heard a long time ago that men in Britain were quite affectionate and would even hold hands until Oscar Wilde went to prison and they worried about being mistaken for homosexuals. I haven't fact checked that though.
Happy solemnity of st john the baptist everyone
Love this rebuttal so much! It’s true that one of the casualties of the LGBT movement has been a loss of deeper intimacy in male friendships. We’ve overcorrected so much that we’ve lost the level the brotherhood that the we could have among men. We need to take back what the LGBT perversion has robbed from Christian culture.
Videos looking slick these days
9/10, if someone doesn't understand deep, meaningful, platonic friendships, he was done dirty by Uncle Bad-Touch, or someone similar. I know this isn't a polite way to say that, but the m-word can get a comment deleted.
TLDR; No
The image of Paul and Peter just reminds me of how French men greet each other with kisses on the cheek! It’s normal in the Mediterranean world to do this and totally platonic. It’s so gross how American society sexuales everything
Well done video.
Thank you! -Vanessa
When you love somebody because of sex, then you need to re-questioning your “love”.
I don't think.
Very many people fit into that category. But ironically traditionalism made that way of thinking Probably more common in the past than it is today. Since sex before marriage was looked down a pon and everyone married at 18.
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One reason secular people are so obsessed with lgbt is because they think it can be a strong arrow to take down Christianity. Also to try to muddy the waters on the spiritual concept of the family to say anything goes
Say "LBTQ+alphabet" to a medieval Christian and they would have asked "What's that?"
Say the word cisgender, and they be like “what? That word sounds made up.” Which it is by the way because it never existed back in the 80s.
Say that to somebody just 15 years ago and you would get that same response.
Yes medieval people were ignorant on lots of subjects. What's your point?
This was a good rebuttal. I think it also helps to look at the actual text of the rite of Adelphopoeisis, because that's where Boswell, et al, produce the red-herring of the equating of "genesthai/γενέσθαι" ("belong," cf. Rom. 7:4: "belong to another [ie. Christ]" [RSVCE]) which is used in the original Greek text with "genetai/γένηται" ("marry," cf. Rom. 7:3: "if she marries another man" [RSVCE]), arguing for a skewed translation owing to the same root.
Yeah, all you gotta do is cast doubt on the established tradition of the Church. That's enough to give rise to historical revisionism.
Another reason Protestantism is problematic.
@bitter_bidder no, a 6 year old.
@bitter_bidder thanks for noticing. Anything else to add? Or just a question?
This was great! Thank you for being firm Trent
55 seconds and only 2 views. Dude fell off
Early view counts are often inaccurate.
This video is one that RUclips will definitely suppress, so thank you for helping the algorithm with your comment.
Thank God for you and your work Trent.
Millions of us mourn these things as well
Thank you Trent.
A much needed video for today.
God Bless you Brother.
Soldiers throughout history that fought together often formed extremely close bonds due to their shared experiences being at risk of death for extended periods of time. The vast, vast majority of these relationships were in no way homosexual.
Very true! Thanks for sharing! -Vanessa
Trying to rewrite homosexuality into Christian history AND insulting Skillet's music? How dare he!
"Wishful thinking." That's exactly what queer historical revisionism is, just wishful thinking. If these men were gay, the words used to describe their relationship would be EXPLICITLY, INARGUABLY gay terms, not words that mean "supposedly, possibly gay."
I see this erasure of platonic friendships in much of the media I consume. If two characters of the same sex have anything in common, everyone jumps to saying "oh! They must be gay! Quick, let's draw art of them kissing and write erotic about them!" It is desperate to say the least.
At about 4:17, I would like to point out that in many European and South American cultures, people of all genders greet each other with a kiss. Even people who are not good friends greet each other this way in Argentina. Kissing actually replaces a hand shake.
When your thinking is perverted, everything becomes perverted
One big problem today is that love is often reduced to romantic love. When people talk about love, they mostly think about romantic relationships. Another issue is how friendships are portrayed. In movies and shows, when there are two friends of the same sex, fans or society often try to turn it into a romantic relationship, or "ship" it, instead of recognizing and valuing it as a friendship.
Thank you for your insights! -Vanessa
It must be a very sad existence on this planet to have almost every aspect of one's life and outlook be consumed and formulated by what gets one off sexually. There is SO much more to life than sex.
Thank you Trent. Great video, God bless🙏
Hey now, I love Skillet! Was hoping that Trent would defend them at the beginning of the video there 😂
You and me both! 🤔😂 justice for skillet! -vane (:
Trent, I ask this as a Lutheran, so there is my background/bias out of the way!
I love your content, and I think it would be fascinating to see you compare various Protestant traditions by degree of error in your eyes. While I’m sure you see all these “Departed Brethren” as theologically misguided, I’d find it fascinating to see your unique and wonderful style lay out how much more similar classical Protestants like Lutherans and Anglicans are to your faith than more contemporary Evangelical groups like Baptists, much less fully far-gone groups like Pentecostals and Non-Denominationals that academics should frankly stop labeling as Protestant.
When I saw how Lutheran and and Catholic liturgical services are similar in their looks (the vestments e.g.) I was astonished.
@@dyzmadamachus9842 Honestly, historically Protestant services weren’t much different. Lutheran and Anglican ones were REALLY similar to Catholic Mass, but even Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Methodist, etc. liturgy wasn’t THAT different. Baptists really abandoned all tradition about 30 years ago, and all of the contemporary Evangelicals further abandoned their heritages after that.
I actually attended a week day mass where a baby-boomer deacon gave a homily trying to saying that St. John Bosco was gay. I was livid.
What if he was gay? 😂
@@mason4966 'What If' is speculation without evidence to support it. 'What is' on the other hand, is evidenced by recorded actions. There are no recorded actions of homosexuality in the life of St. John Bosco.
Still waiting for any religion to prove the existence of any supernatural being or beings. Until then any assertions without proof can be dismissed as worthless.
Alright. Was the beginning of material existence the result of a reaction or an action?
@@Malygosblues Depends who you ask. Some would say the cosmos was never created that it always existed in one form or another, others would say a creator of one form or another but disagree on its characteristics, A solipsist would say its a creation of his own mind and nothing actually exist except itself. Etc., etc. Seem that an action would require a reaction and a reaction would be caused by an action. Seems irrelevant to ask that question about a merry go round.
Existence of God was proved in multiple ways long ago. This is old news
@@AMDG_JMJ Old news is no news.
@asunder6797 Exactly. Because everyone already knows the old news: Everyone of intelligence already knows God's existence was proven long ago. Glad we agree, bro.
Thank you Trent for speaking the Truth. I appreciate your hard work, and wonderful God-given talents.
Thank you for your support! -Vanessa
As an Italian we would be all gay according to Americans because we kiss as a greeting the same is done in many other countries like Greece France Spain etc... 😂
It is no great revelation that humans engaging in perversity is as old as humanity itself.
The Pillar & Ground of Truth by Pavel Florensky, the Da Vinci of Eastern Orthodoxy, gives an excellent description of actual adelphopoesis which was practiced in the Easterm Church up until the 20th Century...so we have literal modern examples of the practice to reference.
Thank you Lord for having you doing this video!
I'm particularly amused by how he uses his experience being raise in what sounds like a very WASPy tradition as somehow anything relevant to historical Christianity. Throughout souther Europe Eastern Europe, and Latin America you can find societies rife with men being able to form close bonds and lots of touching and hugging. He seems to be using a rather anomalous norther European / Anglo American modern cultural insecurities as if they represent the history of Christian cultures. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But, sheesh, even in the Anglo WASP world there were fraternities and military societies and other all male social clubs and binding that was part and parcel to the culture. It's only very, very recently in a historical sense that such institutions have been under such attack as exclusively male. And, as Trent notes, our modern peculiarities have us looking back at many of these institutions and seeing them as somehow decidedly "gay," a proclivity capitalized in by these activists trying to push their narrative. Was there homosexual relationships or pursuits back then? No doubt, and the now oft-disparage clear prohibitions against homosexuals in these all male institutions seems to speak specifically to the realization of how certain people were inclined, so as to explicitly keep that out of the picture.
Thanks for the comment! -Vanessa
I think your take is right, but I find it weird how prominent this issue is. It should be as “essential” as one’s views on how literal Genesis is or one’s views on eschatology … aka, maybe important but not anywhere near enough to divide the Body of Christ. People are treating this like it’s as make-or-break as believing in the Trinity.
Thanks for your feedback! -Vanessa
@@TheCounselofTrent And FTR, I’m DEFINITELY not saying Trent is doing this! It’s just a problem I see a lot. Trent, as always, approaches it with nuance.
Not only is he justifying gay relationships, but his arguments could also be used to justify incest.
In modern greek history, also, there was this practice of ''αδελφοποίηση'' and never, never was considered a kind of homosexual relationships. This practice was followed as an alliance of blood among former enemies or a bond of blood among friends. The interpretation american gays give to this practice is a disgusting kind of american culture imperialism and Greece should react. Unfortunately, Greece is now as woke as US is, because everything America invents some greek scholars bring it immediately here and they teach it in the Universities. The West is lost.
John Boswell's thesis has been badly panned in the secular historical community and left to the side. I studied medieval history and literature, with a specialization on performance studies in that period. The revisionism in pro-LGBTQ movements of activism is just crazy!
Severus, the Patrioch of Antioch (512-518 CE) explained that “we should not separate in speech they [Sergius and Bacchus] who were joined in life.” This wasn’t a simple case of adelphopoiia.
In the definitive 10th century account of their lives, St. Sergius is openly celebrated as the “sweet companion and lover” and of St. Bacchus. The most compelling evidence found is that the oldest text of their martyrology, written in New Testament Greek describes them as “erastai,” or “lovers!” In other words, they were a male homosexual couple. Their orientation and relationship was not only acknowledged, but it was fully accepted and celebrated by the early Christian Church which was far more tolerant than today.
Idk if Trent Horn is a fan of DBZ or is just familiar with it. I’m curious 🧐
C-17