Book Changes: Maybe Things Are More Complex Than We Think
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- #SrilaPrabhupadaBooks #BookChanges
Recorded on 18 June 2020 in Yercaud, Tamil Nadu, India.
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We have His Divine Grace Srila Prabupada..we don't need anyone else..
We have his books...his lectures...everything...
Hare Krsna 🙏
And in Prabhupada's books he stresses the importance of association with devotees.
According to shastra only purified men who are thouroghly honest would accept Srila Prabhupadas work as it was withought fault finding it so much
BBT should reprint Srila Prabhupadas original gita and call it Bhagavad Gita As It Was
they are printing it, you can order it online, Order Original 1972 bhagavad gita as it is, you'll find it.
Order original Macmillan 1972 edition by srila prabhupada its available online publish by Krishna books incorporated
I've recently ordered BHAGVAD GITA AS IT IS 1972 EDITION FROM FLIPKART. I'M HAPPY TO READ IT
No changes should be in original Prabhupada books....plz do not change, it's humble request
It is in the way they did it. It is not honest. It should be noted on the cover that it is a complete revision after the author has left this world. Who gave permission to change the cover knowing Srila Prabhupad was strongly opposed to changing the art work he approved. Trying to pass this highly edited book as Prabhupads original work after he is not personally here to approve it is cheating. If the editors would simply do what any other editing house would do and list this edition in an honest fashion the opposition would not be so fierce. Doing it this deceptive way cast suspicion on their motives.
Yes! Exactly right! The editing is not being done in a transparent and integrous way.
Truth. Should say revised edition on the cover. But just not mentioning is obviously work by rascals
When I was at the Cologne temple around '95 reading Bhagavad Gita verses with " the supreme personality of Godhead spoke"...
after a while it bored me to my bones, really.
When I learned later that the original translation was "the blessed Lord", I felt great relief and was immensely thankful to Srila Prabhupada ❤️❤️👍
Prabhupada writes "the Supreme personality of Godhead" in the manuscript of Bhagavad-gita.
You say it bores you
That means you are bored by prabhupada.
Those books which are revised post Prabhupada's disappearance should not say that they are been translated by Prabhupada🙏 after that you can do what u feel is better
That's the only request
I'm new to this whole thing. I read Prabhupada's Gita around 2009, But I didn't really absorb it. I'm reading it again now, carefully this time. And in the past few days I have become aware of the "book changes" controversy. And I have to say that I think a nuanced approach is required here.
When I first heard about this, I thought maybe it was much ado about nothing... Because I know myself that book writing requires a process of editing. So far as I know, Srila Prabhupada dictated his books, devotees listened to the tapes and transcribed them, they were gone over by a copy editor, and they were published as quickly as possible. That's not what usually happens in the publishing world.... An editor usually works diligently with the author to change certain things to make the reading experience easier or for the reader to grasp the meaning better, etc. It's a back and forth thing, that again, as far as I'm aware, didn't happen with these books (sometimes it's very evident that these never went beyond a first draft...because Prabhupada just states the same words 3-4 times In a single paragraph. An proper editor would have at least pointed that out to him. So given that, I understand why they would be changed since 1978. But I also understand why people would be against it. Especially after I have seen side-by-side examples of what was changed. In some cases it is rather innocuous. Punctuation changes and a word here or there. In the odd case, a sentence is added or reworded to make the meaning clearer. I've done editing myself and I think this is fine. There's nothing wrong with this. HOWEVER....
I've also seen examples where entire sentences are deleted, passages are restated, and the author's voice is lost. That approaches territory where it goes too far, in my opinion. Again, I'm new to this, so I don't know the extent to which it has happened. But just from my cursory reading of side-by-side examples, some of them are concerning. There are certain passages where Prabhupada states something elegantly in the original, and the change after 1978 by the editors just uses unnecessarily verbose language. I can why they made that choice, usually it's to make something like a Sanskrit meaning clearer to the reader. But all it does is make the reading experience more clunky. And when you do that, you lose the author's voice. And that should always be avoided when you edit. Always.
This is why something like Bible translation is so difficult. When a new English translation for the Bible comes out, or an existing one is revised, it's always done by a committee of people. Today, usually it means dozens of people. And they will wrestle over every single word. They will examine the context of the verse And the meaning of Hebrew versus English, Greek versus English, etc. They will discuss, they will argue. And that's why it takes years to do Bible translation. You are never going to see a reputable Bible translation that was done by one man. You just aren't. Not since St. Jerome translated Hebrew and greek into Latin 1600 years ago. These days it just doesn't happen. People have done it but those translations are never considered reputable.
With the Bhagavad Gita, it's different. Perhaps because it's relatively short... I don't know. But with something like the Gita, you are more likely to have one translator or one commentator. And in this case, you have to make sure that the author's voice is kept intact... While looking for the Best way to render a passage into English when the original language is Sanskrit... Or in the case of the commentary/purport, rendering difficult concepts into understandable English.
People always argue over what is authoritative when it comes to Gita translation anyway. That is a given. Prabhupada's Gita is already different than most simply with how he chose to render certain terms. That's always going to be controversial. So I don't think there needs to be more controversy added when you start counting changes to the manuscript as well.
Thank you Prabhu for the clarification
Srila Prabhupada:
Many times they give me very great credit that I have done wonderful. Yes, I have done wonderful. But what is the reason? Because I am not a rascal. I speak what Krishna has spoken. That’s all. Very easy. Everyone can do that. Not only I. Any of you, you can do this. Simply speak what Krishna has said. That’s all. Don’t make addition, alteration. Then you become rascal. Immediately you become rascal.
No changes in Srila Prabhupada´s book, please Sir.
Bhagavad Gita as it is....not Bhagavad Gita as I like!
Do you consider the change pertaining to verse 4.38 egregious? Original ending: “...and one who has achieved this enjoys the self within himself in due course of time.” And the second edition changed ending: “...And one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time.”
Benjamin Paulides I like the original, it’s beautifully flowing and perfectly understandable. 🙏🏼 comment by Lelihana Devi Dasi
I think what you said Sukadeva das is a perfect understanding of what Srila Prabhupada taught us 🙏🏼 Comment by Lelihana Devi Dasi
Benjamin Paulides, I also like the original, it’s beautifully flowing and perfectly understandable. 🙏🏼 comment by Lelihana Devi Dasi
(Managed by disciples): As a beginning point, devotees should be directed to visit www.bbtedit.dk
where many of their questions are already answered. That includes the
question about BG 3.9, see
bbtedit.com/Gita_Revisions_Explained_Part_2#GRE_3.9
Original means manuscript. So you should compare to this.
When Krishna expands Himself, and the famous verse is there that Radha Krishna were one but become two ,
Prabhupada uses the word bifurcated . The expansion of the Hladini samvit and sandini potency to increase Krishnas pleasure ,all of these potencies eternally present within Krishna, but also appearing now eternally outside of Him ,simultaneously one and different. And of course as Mahaprabhu lila shows They unite so Krishna can taste the experience of Radharani, the personification of the Hladini potency.
The jivas are also expansions ,
Before the expansion, I am assuming they existed within Krishna, so in that way eternal ,but not manifest ,
But they came into being by His expanding His own fragmented parts and parcels so in that sense it could be argued that it is correct to say " having once been " they will they ever cease to be .
And that Original expansion of Krishna of the Jivas , is different from Krishna taking the Jivas back inside Himself after the end of creation and then re injecting them back into matter at the time of new creation of a material universe. .
Another part of our philosophy and the existence of the Jiva ,is the question
Is Krishna still expanding Jivas .?
What are the thoughts of the Maharaja on these points .
Sukadeva das
(Managed by disciples): There are problems with these arguments. But I do not plan to get into
discussing them. Let the Revisions Review Board do that. In making that
video, I simply wished to suggest that some of the issues in editing might
be more complex than immediately meets the eye.
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsan Hare Hare ,Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare . 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Gurudev Ki Ji 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Srila Prabhupad Ji Ki Jai 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare ,Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare . 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Gurudev Ki Jai 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Srila Prabhupad Ji Ki Jai 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Dear Maharaja, I think you referred to me in your video “Please Respond” as the mataji who was not cool headed in responding about the book changes. Since then you have become my favourite Maharaja to hear. Your classes and talks are superb. You are a true and faithful disciple of our Beloved Srila Prabhupada. Having listened to this video, I understand now what you are saying. You certainly know a vast amount of philosophy than me. I pray that my husband and I can visit the Salem temple in the near future. We already live in India. All glories to Srila Prabhupada❣️🙏🏼Your servant, Lelihana devi dasi 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
(Managed by Disciples): As a beginning point, devotees should be directed to visit www.bbtedit.dk
where many of their questions are already answered. That includes the
question about BG 3.9, see
bbtedit.com/Gita_Revisions_Explained_Part_2#GRE_3.9
Bhakti Vikasa Swami ~ Thank you Maharaja 🙏🏼 I will see these links 🙏🏼
So much was changed and art was changed its not what Prahbuprada would want
Shat Shat Pranam Guru Maharaj 🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉🎉❤🎉
🥰🌺🥰Hare Krishna🥰🌺🥰.....Guru..❤❤❤
I personally have the 1972 version, I’ll tell you, it is as good as any other independent version of the Gita, the problem is not the translation itself it’s the commentary, which I don’t understand why because the Gita is very straightforward to the Devotion path, I mean it doesn’t really have any other message, one or another philosophical aspects but that’s it. The other thing is that Krishna and Prabhupada are not the same, now one can respect Prabhupada but that’s does not mean he was perfect in everything, one can be very good but not perfect, that’s how humanity works. The books changes are there, it’s not going to do anything, like if you can’t have any thoughts of thinking with the ones you have it’s not gonna magically change just because you change them for the older editions.
“The pure devotee is always free from all mistakes, cheating, and illusion. The pure devotee does not fall down. Such a pure devotee is completely aware of everything because of his pure devotion to the Supreme Lord. Therefore, he cannot be polluted by maya or be influenced by illusion."
Reference: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 9.4.68, purport
“It is an offense to consider a pure devotee equal to an ordinary person or to think that the pure devotee is subject to mundane qualities."
Reference: Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 15.270, purport
Too many illustrations have been changed.
No Maharaja ,too many illustration changes, Rupanuga Prabhu Acbsp.
Very important point to consider.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
))))))))))
Simple or complex, should be transparent, and option given. Quite sure many would choose original. At least both and compare. Smh
In the example that is given, it does indeed seem that Bhakti Vikasa Swami has a point. The sanskrit translation to Bg (2.20) does fit in the way given in the revised edition. Is this just down to Hayagriva dasa being a 'wordsmith' or just plagiarizing the work of Dr. Radha Krishnan on Srila Prabhupada's orders? I would question that even this is not so straightforward.
The previous editions of Bhagavad-gita in the line of disciplic succession would seem to bear out the Swami's comments, (editions of Baladeva Vidyabhushana and Srila Vishvanath Chakravarti Thakura, etc) yet Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's translation runs as:....
"The spirit soul is unborn and he is eternal. Having once been, there is no cessation to his existence. He has no birth or death. Although he is the oldest, he is ever fresh. He is not slain when the body is slain. Factually, the eternal soul has no permanent relationship with the mortal body."
The 'Having once been' is there also. I think it is good to question Srila Prabhupada rather than take all he says as absolutely perfect and yet I also think he was an absolute expert when it came to so many things - so many astounding stories. So one must be very careful and diligent when doing this.
It does seem to be a surprise when he says to Hayagriva dasa to just plagiarize Dr. Radha Krishnan's work - yet is even this so bizarre? I think Bhakti Vikasa Swami mentioned himself that Srila Prabhupada says to Hayagriva that the verse translations are not so important. Indeed, may this not actually be the case? For the Bhaktivedanta purports themselves are the main topics of importance. This is of course how Srila Prabhupada relays to us the Bhagavad Gita AS It Is in the line of disciplic succession.
Perhaps even the 'Having once been' refers to the soul's decent from transcendence? I don't know for sure but it could be possible.
Of course (to my eyes) the revisions review and explanations are often put in a clinical way without much devotion even and that, to me is suspicious as well as many of the explanations which don't fit in well to mood of the work. Often the revisions try and capture a specific meaning without letting the full possible implication of a meaning diffuse itself. That is just my observation. Indeed when very senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada are pointing out the book change issue, one must at the very least listen to them very carefully - they may well be whistleblowers acting for others' benefit.
Whatever one believes, the most important thing is to be open-minded for then one, even if in error, has a chance to rectify it. This doesn't happen with closed-minded persons.
ŚB 1.5.11
तद्वाग्विसर्गो जनताघविप्लवो
यस्मिन् प्रतिश्लोकमबद्धवत्यपि ।
नामान्यनन्तस्य यशोऽङ्कितानि यत्
शृण्वन्ति गायन्ति गृणन्ति साधव: ॥ ११ ॥
tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo
yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api
nāmāny anantasya yaśo ’ṅkitāni yat
śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ
Translation
On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world’s misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.
Maharaja, my humble obeisances. What you said is thoughtful and it is what you have considered. You are making some interesting points. However, I still feel it was insulting to our spiritual master to change Srila Prabhupada’s words for whatever reason. Everything was perfectly clear as he transcribed the verses and purports on his dictaphone. I know you have understood the philosophy as I listen to your RUclips videos. But I say, Why change his books? What a waste of time and money when all of his disciples could have just been speaking the wonderful and amazing nectar and philosophy in his original books and what he spoke in his audio and video lectures, DVD series, letters and memories of his devotees. 🙏🏼 Comment by Lelihana Devi Dasi
Hare Krishna Mataji...Plz accept my humble obeisances..It is not so... Srila Prabhupada had permitted his disciples that " they are allowed to make necessary changes in book"..Plz watch this video ruclips.net/video/Ws9fiz7Kci4/видео.html
Anant Kumar Thank you, I will watch the video 🙏🏼 Lelihana Devi Dasi
Anant Kumar, Prabhu,the video to,which you have referred is set as “private.” If there is another such video please let me know. Thank you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@universe2134 plz accept my humble obeisances. There are advanced devotees who were directly told by Srila Prabhupada, “No Changes” I will put the links here in a little while.
@@universe2134 Hare Krishna Prabhu! The link says it is private. How can I access it?
The new Universal Form ,has no Bases
I think that Hyagriva Das put negative comments about women, which destroyed some of our women's enthusiasm and faith🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
IAM sticking with Mac72, what about,Garuda and the Sparrow Illustration.
Good example.
Hare Krishna 🙏
All 1970 to pre 1977 are original..
All other are edited
is 'cow protection to cattle rearing' a good change ?
rishi gooroochurn No, cow protection is the correct phrase to use. Cattle rearing implies that the poor cows are raised for slaughtering!
@@vrindakrishna108 yes,i asked this question to bvks who is supporting and siding with srila prabhupada book changers ,to justify this change,but he could not.
@Rishi where that change is made!?? I looked it up online but could not find that change to cattle Rearing.
No change is good!! These books are already written! Write a new book fine but don't change a old book and pretend it's the same.
It's the other way around.
The version of Bhagavad Gita while Prabhupada was on the planet said "cattle raising". It has since been changed to "cow protection".
nice scenery...
Mahabhuj, what about the Illustrations
Hk! Interesting points, it should be nice to visualize the sanskrit words in a sheet maybe...
Hare Krishna🙏