#1 wants something different: the mother wants her daughter to get a good night's sleep and go to church in the morning (she is notoriously grumpy if she doesn't get enough sleep and the strict religious father is sure to figure it out if there are bags under the daughter's eyes) #2 Wants the same thing for different reasons: the mother wants her daughter to go to the party so she can give her father (the local pastor) a list of who was there and who was drinking and whose parents were responsible for it. #3 Wants the same thing for the same reason, but wants to get it a different way: the mother wants to drive the daughter to the party herself so she can get herself invited to hang out with the host's parents and keep an eye on her little girl (which of course would be mortifyingly embarrassing to the daughter)
#1 - Her mother wants her to attend family game night, like they always do! #2 - Her mother wants her to go to the party because it will help the daughter's social standing and reflect positively on the mother. #3 - Her mother wants her to go to the party with the boy, but it's because the boy is the Pastor's son, and mother wants to improve her standing in the church.
#1. She wants her to stay away from the party because she went to a similar party with alcohol, got drunk and pregnant with the daughter, and is stuck with a controlling husband. #2. Mom wants her to go because she had another love interest she said no to because of strict parents and wonders how in would have worked out. #3. Mom wants the girl to be more independent and assertive because she worries that a passive daughter cannot be happy in the world.
#1. The mother wants her daughter to stay home because she knows the neighborhood where the party is being held is in a dangerous part of town. #2. The mother wants her daughter to go out with the boy because she doesn't want her daughter to end up in a loveless marriage like she did. #3 The mother wants her daughter to talk to her father so the daughter is not sneaking behind her dad's back.
#1 wants her daughter to be more transparent and not sneak out at all, even if to the extent their father would require, and to a more age-appropriate event #2 wants her to go out but not because of the boy, but because her daughter is closed off and needs to come out of her shell, (bonus but kinda the same: and the boy is a local at their church and their families are close; ie more about the family dynamic than the romantic angle) #3 instead of sneaking out, wants to take her daughter there herself because the boy who picked her up has already been drinking, prioritizing her safety in spite of embarrassing her before the party even begins
This supposedly one thing can sure be helpful, but there are lots of great characters who do not conform to this, for they being too reactive too passive, mostly seen from the outside and thus their wants never become obvious and so on, especially older books do that a lot, and still people really enjoy thoose characters, often projecting some wants onto them that simply is not in the text.
1. Mother doesn’t want her daughter to go to the party. That’s an easy and typical conflict. 2. Mom wants her daughter to go to the party, but so she can meet a different boy; her friend’s son who recently moved to town. He is handsome and wealthy, and could be a good catch. 3. Mom wants her daughter to go to the party and meet a boy she likes, but she wants the daughter to confide in her and ask for a ride so they become closer; develop a bond and maybe share secrets about something.
How do you deal with - for lack of a better way to put it - scenes of emotional catharsis within a narrative following these rules? Like, let's say a non-POV character has been reserved, keeping a secret from the POV character (and the reader) across most of the narrative. At an appropriate moment within the narrative, they spill the beans - let the POV character know what's bothering them, which then triggers a change in the relationship. Obviously in some cases this can lead to a breakdown of a relationship. But in others, it's a release of conflict, deflating tension that has built up across the narrative. I think these discussions are rewarding to the reader, but they seem to violate your rules, as the characters fall out of conflict as the scene progresses, and become more aligned.
I have a question for Rule 2 - every one has to have a different OOD: in a fight scene, 4 soldiers fight an enemy squad. Obviously every one of them wants primarily to survive the skirmish. Why? How? Those are all going to be very similar to each other. How do you write such fine nuances in a fast scene?
It seems to me that differences in OOD are more important across time--basically, if this is the only scene these 4 guys are in, then differences in their motives for survival are relatively negligible. If, however, those same 4 characters show up across the narrative, their motivations and desires can be diversified throughout the story, either before or after the scene (for example, character A wants to survive the skirmish to get home to his wife and kids, character B wants to survive just because he's got a grudge against the enemy, character C wants to survive because he's also a spy and has secret information that needs to get to his superiors, etc.) Those desires don't have to be mentioned in your fast-paced fight scene, because they're only relevant outside of the moment, if that makes sense, but it might influence what they are actually willing to do/the lengths they are willing to go to in the fight. It could even spark conflict between the allies if one or more of them goes too far, like the cop willing to waterboard the suspect in Tim's example.
I was say it would be the difference in their modes of survival. One just wants to get out alive and doesn't care who dies in the process. Second wants to live but not kill anyone. Third wants to kill them all. And the forth, maybe doesn't want to fight at all but will if he has too.
@@notalltheories Thank you. :) I also thought about using body language to express these differences ( heroic/seasoned warrior behaves differently than greenhorn newbie in a fight).
I tried to come up with creative ones here…. 1. Wants something different: Wants her daughter to stay home and study so she can stay home and study and not get tied down with someone she isn’t going to be with long term or who doesn’t have her best interests at heart. I feel like this conflict would be especially compelling if the mother was unhappy in her marriage, maybe she married super young, and wants better for her daughter, even if she doesn’t say it outright. 2. Wants the same thing but for different reasons: She wants her daughter to go to the party because there’s something that may be kept at the host’s house that the mother wants to get, probably something large and unsubtle so she can casually ask her daughter about it without raising suspicion, but it’s kept indoors so she wouldn’t know at first glance. Maybe some sort of Persian “heirloom” statue that really should be kept in a museum and the mother is planning to steal it out of spite, but first she needs to confirm where it is and what’s around it and how to access it, so she’s kind of using her daughter. 3. Wants her daughter to go to the party but in a different way: I’m going to put a somewhat Stephen King “Carrie” spin on this, but what if the mother is also super religious, actually probably insanely so, and thinks that if her daughter wants to go to the party with alcohol to be with this boy, then she’s too far gone to be good in the light of her religion, so her mother believes it best for her to go to the party dying, so she’s already spiked something in her dinner with a poison, but obviously police would assume it was something at the party. For a less dark difference in how, maybe the mother would actually strongly encourage the daughter to just go out the front while she distracts him, because she has someone hiding out on the trellis that the daughter would have snuck out of.
I'm going to set this up assuming the mother is just 1 person, and these are her overall OOD. #1 - WHAT - Mom wants daughter to be courted by the rules of the church. #2 - WHY - Mom feels the boy is a good fit for her daughter, for his parents go to the same church as the family. #3 - HOW - Mom calls the boys parents and sets up a family dinner at their house, ruining both the teenagers party plans.
#1 - Wants something different - Mom wants daughter to marry a pastor's son, not be interested in Party Boy. Mom wants daughter to stay home. #2 - Wants the same thing for different reasons - Mom wants daughter to sneak out at night so that Mom can leave, too, but for a fake reason, and pick up daughter at party. She has suitcases packed in the trunk and they are leaving @busiv3 husband/father but daughter doesn't know. #3 - ...wants to get it a different way - Mom is fine with daughter going on group dates with the boy and other friends but not go to the party/sneak out at night.
Character #2: Mother * #1 What: Wants something different. Answer: Wants her to avoid the party because she is terrified her abusive husband will begin to see their daughter is no longer a little girl, but a young woman and snap. * #2 Why: Wants the same thing for different reasons. Answer: Wants her to attend the party because she is emotionally drained from watching her husband dictate not only her life, but her daughter’s life as well. * #3 How: Wants the same thing for the same reasons but wants to get it a different way. Answer: Wants to deceive her husband by gaining his permission to go see a movie with her friend and her friend’s daughter while she chaperones her daughter to the party.
#1 - The mother wants the daughter to avoid the party because if the father found out that she went it might trigger another of his angry outbursts. Earlier that day the mother found out that the father has a heart condition that could be life threatening if aggravated by anger. #2 - The mother wants the daughter to go to the party because that will get her out of the house so that she won't see that her mom is cheating on her father with another man. #3 - The mother wants the daughter to ask the dad for permission to attend the party because this will give her an opportunity to point out how her husband is being a hypocrite since he did the same thing when he was 16.
#1 The mother wants her to stay home because she doesn't want to trigger the father's fierce anger at her or her daughter. #2 She wants the daughter to go because the boy belongs to a prestigious family and the mother wants to be associated with them #3 She wants the daughter to go the party, but she wants to take her so she knows she'll be safe and she can lie to her husband about why both of them are going out, supposedly together.
The mother. 1. Wants something different: She doesn't want to deal with the aftermath of a 'first party with booze', the possible hang over, and has zero interest in spinning it to her husband to cover for the daughter. Prepares to make her extra miserable 'to teach a lesson.' 2. Wants the same thing for different reasons: Knows that her daughter going to a party is inevitable. It's better to lay a ground work for handling difficult situations than wait until she is in college where she'd be out of reach, where peer pressure would be stronger. Screws it up by being too saccharine in her delivery. The daughter thinks her mother is trying to live through her and goes to the party intending to get hammered. 3. Wants the same thing for the same reasons but gets it in a different way: Convinces the father that forbidden fruit is always sweeter, it's better to encourage their daughter to be social, emphasizing that they trust her, and making a point of saying if something feels wrong, it is. If she is at any time uncomfortable, they are a phone call away. By being united in their support of their daughter, even if things go sideways, she will handle herself well . They screw this up by standing rigid by the front door, as if they're going to deliver a lecture. The daughter's over heard bits of their conversation, thinking they're going to crack down on her, she sneaks out before they can talk to her. Tragedy strikes.
1. Wants something different. Mother wants her to agree to the arranged marriage her father set up instead of chasing silly boys. 2. Wants the same thing for a different reason. Mother wants her to attend the party and find a better suitor. The party will be full of nobility and, of course, the single, handsome Prince will be in attendance. 3. Wants the same thing for a different reason but wants to get it differently. Mother wants her to attend the party because if the prince is going, the King might attend, and her daughter can get close enough to the murderous King to poison him and start the revolution.
alrighty then. #1 The mother had a secret affair with the boy's father years before and they may be brother and sister. The father openly clings to his religious beliefs, but discovers after the daughter is born when their trying to have more children that he incapable of having children and decides to keep it secret. He suspects his wife of cheating but he loves her and clings to the possibility of a one-in-a-million chance. While sitting in church, his old army buddy who's also the Sheriff, comments in passing to his friend on how many red-haired children there are in the small rural town. #2 The mother wants her to go for two reasons. #1 so she will stop nagging her and #2 she needs to be alone. When the daughter goes the mother put the pie on the timer and returns to the woods where the boy's mother is becoming stiff with rigor mortise and the hole is only half dug. Now that her daughter is gone and the father is consuming the poison she puts in his morning coffee, she will be free to rekindle the relationship with the boys father they had in high school years before. #3 I think I'll just write a book based on number three. Check the bookstores and Amazon in about a year...
Struggling to figure out what my protagonist wants is my Object of Desire...
This is some solid practical teaching. Looking forward to putting this into practice in my next project.
#1 wants something different: the mother wants her daughter to get a good night's sleep and go to church in the morning (she is notoriously grumpy if she doesn't get enough sleep and the strict religious father is sure to figure it out if there are bags under the daughter's eyes)
#2 Wants the same thing for different reasons: the mother wants her daughter to go to the party so she can give her father (the local pastor) a list of who was there and who was drinking and whose parents were responsible for it.
#3 Wants the same thing for the same reason, but wants to get it a different way: the mother wants to drive the daughter to the party herself so she can get herself invited to hang out with the host's parents and keep an eye on her little girl (which of course would be mortifyingly embarrassing to the daughter)
Great tips man! 👍
Thank you, Tim. I think this may help with the scene I’m currently working on.
I really like this, thank you.
Thank you so much sir ❤
Great video Tim. Thank you.
#1 - Her mother wants her to attend family game night, like they always do!
#2 - Her mother wants her to go to the party because it will help the daughter's social standing and reflect positively on the mother.
#3 - Her mother wants her to go to the party with the boy, but it's because the boy is the Pastor's son, and mother wants to improve her standing in the church.
#1. She wants her to stay away from the party because she went to a similar party with alcohol, got drunk and pregnant with the daughter, and is stuck with a controlling husband.
#2. Mom wants her to go because she had another love interest she said no to because of strict parents and wonders how in would have worked out.
#3. Mom wants the girl to be more independent and assertive because she worries that a passive daughter cannot be happy in the world.
#1. The mother wants her daughter to stay home because she knows the neighborhood where the party is being held is in a dangerous part of town.
#2. The mother wants her daughter to go out with the boy because she doesn't want her daughter to end up in a loveless marriage like she did.
#3 The mother wants her daughter to talk to her father so the daughter is not sneaking behind her dad's back.
#1 wants her daughter to be more transparent and not sneak out at all, even if to the extent their father would require, and to a more age-appropriate event
#2 wants her to go out but not because of the boy, but because her daughter is closed off and needs to come out of her shell, (bonus but kinda the same: and the boy is a local at their church and their families are close; ie more about the family dynamic than the romantic angle)
#3 instead of sneaking out, wants to take her daughter there herself because the boy who picked her up has already been drinking, prioritizing her safety in spite of embarrassing her before the party even begins
This supposedly one thing can sure be helpful, but there are lots of great characters who do not conform to this, for they being too reactive too passive, mostly seen from the outside and thus their wants never become obvious and so on, especially older books do that a lot, and still people really enjoy thoose characters, often projecting some wants onto them that simply is not in the text.
1. Mother doesn’t want her daughter to go to the party. That’s an easy and typical conflict. 2. Mom wants her daughter to go to the party, but so she can meet a different boy; her friend’s son who recently moved to town. He is handsome and wealthy, and could be a good catch. 3. Mom wants her daughter to go to the party and meet a boy she likes, but she wants the daughter to confide in her and ask for a ride so they become closer; develop a bond and maybe share secrets about something.
How do you deal with - for lack of a better way to put it - scenes of emotional catharsis within a narrative following these rules?
Like, let's say a non-POV character has been reserved, keeping a secret from the POV character (and the reader) across most of the narrative. At an appropriate moment within the narrative, they spill the beans - let the POV character know what's bothering them, which then triggers a change in the relationship.
Obviously in some cases this can lead to a breakdown of a relationship. But in others, it's a release of conflict, deflating tension that has built up across the narrative. I think these discussions are rewarding to the reader, but they seem to violate your rules, as the characters fall out of conflict as the scene progresses, and become more aligned.
I have a question for Rule 2 - every one has to have a different OOD: in a fight scene, 4 soldiers fight an enemy squad. Obviously every one of them wants primarily to survive the skirmish. Why? How? Those are all going to be very similar to each other. How do you write such fine nuances in a fast scene?
Great question. There are definitely times where a group will act as a single character like a bunch of goons attacking at the same time. - Tim
It seems to me that differences in OOD are more important across time--basically, if this is the only scene these 4 guys are in, then differences in their motives for survival are relatively negligible. If, however, those same 4 characters show up across the narrative, their motivations and desires can be diversified throughout the story, either before or after the scene (for example, character A wants to survive the skirmish to get home to his wife and kids, character B wants to survive just because he's got a grudge against the enemy, character C wants to survive because he's also a spy and has secret information that needs to get to his superiors, etc.) Those desires don't have to be mentioned in your fast-paced fight scene, because they're only relevant outside of the moment, if that makes sense, but it might influence what they are actually willing to do/the lengths they are willing to go to in the fight. It could even spark conflict between the allies if one or more of them goes too far, like the cop willing to waterboard the suspect in Tim's example.
I was say it would be the difference in their modes of survival. One just wants to get out alive and doesn't care who dies in the process. Second wants to live but not kill anyone. Third wants to kill them all. And the forth, maybe doesn't want to fight at all but will if he has too.
@@notalltheories Thank you. :) I also thought about using body language to express these differences ( heroic/seasoned warrior behaves differently than greenhorn newbie in a fight).
Sounds kinda like South Park's one-off Chicken Lover character. "Heeey children, I see you've discovered the magic of reeeading!" Has the same lilt. 😅
I tried to come up with creative ones here….
1. Wants something different: Wants her daughter to stay home and study so she can stay home and study and not get tied down with someone she isn’t going to be with long term or who doesn’t have her best interests at heart. I feel like this conflict would be especially compelling if the mother was unhappy in her marriage, maybe she married super young, and wants better for her daughter, even if she doesn’t say it outright.
2. Wants the same thing but for different reasons: She wants her daughter to go to the party because there’s something that may be kept at the host’s house that the mother wants to get, probably something large and unsubtle so she can casually ask her daughter about it without raising suspicion, but it’s kept indoors so she wouldn’t know at first glance. Maybe some sort of Persian “heirloom” statue that really should be kept in a museum and the mother is planning to steal it out of spite, but first she needs to confirm where it is and what’s around it and how to access it, so she’s kind of using her daughter.
3. Wants her daughter to go to the party but in a different way: I’m going to put a somewhat Stephen King “Carrie” spin on this, but what if the mother is also super religious, actually probably insanely so, and thinks that if her daughter wants to go to the party with alcohol to be with this boy, then she’s too far gone to be good in the light of her religion, so her mother believes it best for her to go to the party dying, so she’s already spiked something in her dinner with a poison, but obviously police would assume it was something at the party.
For a less dark difference in how, maybe the mother would actually strongly encourage the daughter to just go out the front while she distracts him, because she has someone hiding out on the trellis that the daughter would have snuck out of.
I'm going to set this up assuming the mother is just 1 person, and these are her overall OOD.
#1 - WHAT - Mom wants daughter to be courted by the rules of the church.
#2 - WHY - Mom feels the boy is a good fit for her daughter, for his parents go to the same church as the family.
#3 - HOW - Mom calls the boys parents and sets up a family dinner at their house, ruining both the teenagers party plans.
#1 - Wants something different - Mom wants daughter to marry a pastor's son, not be interested in Party Boy. Mom wants daughter to stay home.
#2 - Wants the same thing for different reasons - Mom wants daughter to sneak out at night so that Mom can leave, too, but for a fake reason, and pick up daughter at party. She has suitcases packed in the trunk and they are leaving @busiv3 husband/father but daughter doesn't know.
#3 - ...wants to get it a different way - Mom is fine with daughter going on group dates with the boy and other friends but not go to the party/sneak out at night.
#3 The mother wants her daughter to go to the party and spend time with the boy she likes, but she wants her to try to be a good influence on the boy.
Character #2: Mother
* #1 What: Wants something different.
Answer: Wants her to avoid the party because she is terrified her abusive husband will begin to see their daughter is no longer a little girl, but a young woman and snap.
* #2 Why: Wants the same thing for different reasons.
Answer: Wants her to attend the party because she is emotionally drained from watching her husband dictate not only her life, but her daughter’s life as well.
* #3 How: Wants the same thing for the same reasons but wants to get it a different way.
Answer: Wants to deceive her husband by gaining his permission to go see a movie with her friend and her friend’s daughter while she chaperones her daughter to the party.
#2 The mother wants the daughter to fall for the boy she secretly set up for her to meet at the party.
#1 - The mother wants the daughter to avoid the party because if the father found out that she went it might trigger another of his angry outbursts. Earlier that day the mother found out that the father has a heart condition that could be life threatening if aggravated by anger.
#2 - The mother wants the daughter to go to the party because that will get her out of the house so that she won't see that her mom is cheating on her father with another man.
#3 - The mother wants the daughter to ask the dad for permission to attend the party because this will give her an opportunity to point out how her husband is being a hypocrite since he did the same thing when he was 16.
#1 The mother wants her to stay home because she doesn't want to trigger the father's fierce anger at her or her daughter. #2 She wants the daughter to go because the boy belongs to a prestigious family and the mother wants to be associated with them #3 She wants the daughter to go the party, but she wants to take her so she knows she'll be safe and she can lie to her husband about why both of them are going out, supposedly together.
The mother. 1. Wants something different: She doesn't want to deal with the aftermath of a 'first party with booze', the possible hang over, and has zero interest in spinning it to her husband to cover for the daughter. Prepares to make her extra miserable 'to teach a lesson.'
2. Wants the same thing for different reasons: Knows that her daughter going to a party is inevitable. It's better to lay a ground work for handling difficult situations than wait until she is in college where she'd be out of reach, where peer pressure would be stronger. Screws it up by being too saccharine in her delivery. The daughter thinks her mother is trying to live through her and goes to the party intending to get hammered.
3. Wants the same thing for the same reasons but gets it in a different way: Convinces the father that forbidden fruit is always sweeter, it's better to encourage their daughter to be social, emphasizing that they trust her, and making a point of saying if something feels wrong, it is. If she is at any time uncomfortable, they are a phone call away. By being united in their support of their daughter, even if things go sideways, she will handle herself well . They screw this up by standing rigid by the front door, as if they're going to deliver a lecture. The daughter's over heard bits of their conversation, thinking they're going to crack down on her, she sneaks out before they can talk to her. Tragedy strikes.
1. Wants something different. Mother wants her to agree to the arranged marriage her father set up instead of chasing silly boys.
2. Wants the same thing for a different reason. Mother wants her to attend the party and find a better suitor. The party will be full of nobility and, of course, the single, handsome Prince will be in attendance.
3. Wants the same thing for a different reason but wants to get it differently. Mother wants her to attend the party because if the prince is going, the King might attend, and her daughter can get close enough to the murderous King to poison him and start the revolution.
alrighty then. #1 The mother had a secret affair with the boy's father years before and they may be brother and sister. The father openly clings to his religious beliefs, but discovers after the daughter is born when their trying to have more children that he incapable of having children and decides to keep it secret. He suspects his wife of cheating but he loves her and clings to the possibility of a one-in-a-million chance. While sitting in church, his old army buddy who's also the Sheriff, comments in passing to his friend on how many red-haired children there are in the small rural town.
#2 The mother wants her to go for two reasons. #1 so she will stop nagging her and #2 she needs to be alone. When the daughter goes the mother put the pie on the timer and returns to the woods where the boy's mother is becoming stiff with rigor mortise and the hole is only half dug. Now that her daughter is gone and the father is consuming the poison she puts in his morning coffee, she will be free to rekindle the relationship with the boys father they had in high school years before.
#3 I think I'll just write a book based on number three. Check the bookstores and Amazon in about a year...
#1 The mother wants the daughter to like a different boy.