I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day. 7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well. I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted! I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled. Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago. Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
I got strung out on kratom last year. The culture around it is unlike ANYTHING I've ever seen. It's literally a sht ton of people in denial about their addiction lobbying how harmless it is and severely attacking those who share their story of how bad it destroyed their lives . It's INSANE ! I've been addicted to every f$cking drug they tell you not to ever try and I've NEVER seen anything like it! I don't think anyone should be able to tell us what we can or can't put into our own body. I do think it should be illegal to package an opiate in cartoon pink hippo packaging with absolutely no warning labels saying that it's EXTREMELY addictive and dangerous. It's INSANE! Thank you so much for sharing this message!
@@Starr_unlimited Absolutely 💯% on point! I’m a year sober from a 2 year Kratom addiction, I feel for anyone who has gone through full opiate withdrawal because the Kratom WDs I went through were complete hell!
I'm an addict and like most addicts I need to be addicted to something. I recommend everyone quit all the drugs and chemicals and get addicted to a sport. Any sport, doesn't matter what it is, find what you enjoy and gives you a smile and get addicted to it
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah! Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit. What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco. Good work BTW!
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
Jason, we talked about Kratom after I made A Leaf of Faith. Since then I’ve learned so much about Kratom that wasn’t appearing in the science at the time. I’d love to come talk to you again anytime. At that time in 2017 the extracts weren’t really around. Now the business is out of control.
The 7 Oz are 14 times stronger than opiate pain killers and they run about 5 to 10 bucks a chewable tablet. My local smoke shop has daily case delivery because they can't keep them on the shelves. I tried one and couldn't believe it was like a Oxy or Perc
@IhaveTheKrabbyPattyForumla that is a problem people abusing extracts seeking a high. I been taking kratom 6.5yrs I was on 300mg of oxycodone for 25yrs and was cut off like millions of other pain patients. If someone has not addressed their addiction issue then they can get addicted to alot of things.i have never felt the need to abuse kratom. Also kratom if u take to much u will puke and it make u feel horrible but u will not die.i have tried to take alot of kratom to see what would happen and I puked.but people are buying these extract seeking a High like drugs and u cannot get high on pure kratom. I have tried the extract also they gave me some energy is all.nothing compared to pills.
6:09 I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight. I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor. In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day. Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years. I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom. I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression. Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years. I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc. I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate. Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
@@jodo1971 I just got into kratom. I'ts day 4 and I'm taking roughly 6 grams daily. Is that too much, and would it be ok if I keep it at this level ? Hoping to get a job and take this to work with me for energy and anxiety reasons. Any thoughts or tips would be helpful. Thanks!
I've been on kratom for 5 years and i have two kids now. Kratom has made me feel completely numb through it all. I want to quit but I just can't.m for some reason. I need to get professional help
@@RalphCastelli I have 2 year old girl, she will be 3 in February. I have been on kratom 20% extract for past 4 years. I take 230mg 5 times a day…. It really depresses me because I feel I’ve wasted a genuine experience I could’ve had the last 2 years with my daughter. Kratom has made numb.. but it got me off heavy weekend drinking I had for 15 years prior…
It’s hell. It’s easier said than done, but can you go into a treatment center? Do you have health insurance? You can take a FMLA & get the treatment you deserve. I really hope you do, man. I’m sorry
I’ve been sober from alcohol for 6 years but have been using kratom in some form or fashion throughout. I’m currently in the process of checking myself into rehab for the second time after years of abuse. You described my story to T! Can’t thank you guys enough for your candor and bringing awareness as the shame and withdrawal are so real. Been in denial for years but this episode was the nudge I needed to finally seek help 🙏
Addictions, people with addictions have dealt with a lot within their youth, growing up, the trauma has rewired our brains for self destruction for life where there’s a constant battle within the head. Much respect to ones who deal with addictions who are battling with being sober. Much love and strength 🙌🙏
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
I took Kratom for about 4 years, was up to about 16 -20 grams a day. It was making my life worse at that point. Less motivated, foggy, lower libido. I started tapering last summer. I'm now at 1 gram a day in 2 , 1/2 doses and feel incredible. I'm almost ready to stop altogether. I have had almost no withdrawal in the method I used of a large drop at first then, halved every month after. I went from 16-20 to 4, stayed there for 2 months, then to 2 for a month, now at 1 for almost 3 weeks.
Update: my last day taking any was November 20th. I've had absolutely no issues since. My life is much more productive and I enjoy things so much more. My ability to be present and productive is through the roof.
I have been taking kratom since 2016 for severe RLS it got to a point that i was taking 5 grams of powder(never extracts) every 3 hours so i decided to taper down bit by bit. I used measuring spoons. I am now down to taking less than 1 gram if powder 2 times a day. My RLS is much better and i'm confident i will be able to quit in the near future. The withdraws are slightly annoying but no worse than a mild flu.
I currently toss and wash kratom powder several times a day. I would love to quit some day but without Kratom, I would have unalived myself years ago. I am a recovering heroin addict who struggles with treatment resistant depression. When I left rehab the last time (for opioid addiction), my depression was crippling. I had no energy or motivation for anything. I hated the rooms of NA, and couldn’t get myself out of bed for any type of job. I have been on over 3 antidepressants that just made me feel worse. Idk why life sucks this much.
Darling you need to start fast for 3 days than eat regularly fir a week than fast again body will prepare itself it will take time stay a way from antidepressants as much as you can it took me 2 years to kick off suboxone yeah 2 crazy years I lost everything in process everything thru the time getting sober and I never took more than 1.5 mg for 3 years took me 2 years to start feeling normal
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
Did this shit for 3 years daily now. 2 extracts a day. 72 hours clean right this moment and I’m not going back. My withdrawals have only been some tossing and turning / restless legs at night but it’s getting better. Prayers for everyone, you CAN get off this crap
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution. Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
This was a fantastic podcast. I was an extremely heavy user for 6 years, and I am proud to say that I am just over 2 years sober from the green sludge. I want everyone in this thread to know that it's possible to quit, no matter how deep you are. I got to the point where my digestive and endocrine systems were completely decimated, and I quit cold turkey with the help of the quittingkratom community on Reddit. Lots of strong people on there with great advice. Much love to anyone struggling out there, your future self will thank you if you taper and quit!
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
I agree. I tell people to stay away from kratom for the most part, but this isn’t the most nuanced discussion about it and they’re by no means kratom experts. I think People have trouble with the kratom conversation because it is the definition of shade of grey. Helpful for some people, destructive for others. I know people who use feel free totally responsibly and have zero issues with it, and I know people (including myself) that struggle with an addiction to it. It’s just an interesting topic in that regard. But believe me, there are A LOT of substances out there that are way worse than kratom, and that doesn’t mean I think kratom is a good thing. Once again, shade of grey.
Kratom addict here, to the point where im writing this from a detox center. I was om multiple extract shots a day. It made me so sick and anxiety stricken, i was going to the hospital and abusing my benzos thinking i was going through benzo withdrawl. It took me a while to realize that its the kratom. Im wo happy that i checked myself in, going on day 5 kratom clean. Can finally wake up without sweats and panic/vomiting. Already feel happier about my life and more upbeat and motivated. I couldnt do it on my own, anyone seeking help... Do not be embarassed, the detox centers will understand. This stuff has been out for a while, they know how to treat it.
Not sure what year I first discovered Kratom, but at that time there was almost no US vendors. I bought it from Indonesia. I'm so surprised to see how common it is now. You definitely have to tread lightly with it, though. Especially since it's so readily available now. I try to use it only a few times a month. There's been a few times that I've caught myself taking it more often, just gotta try to reel it in when that happens. I've been heroin-free for 25 years.
@@scarab9762 Ive gotten many gifts, letters and tons of apprecieation and since I only sell powder,no extracts. I dont believe I caused any misery, I know that kratom has helped many of the clients for numerous things. Seems like you just have an addictive personality and abuse it.
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago. I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
I was a HARDCORE heroin and meth IV user for 15 years and lost my kids and everything. My husband (also dad of my 4 kids) over dosed from fentanyl 2 years ago. That’s when I never touched it again because I was introduced to kratum. It saved my life! My kids have their mommy again! I would have ended up dying too and left my kids with NO PARENTS AT ALL had I not found kratum
That's great! But what they're saying is even though it has some good benefits like with what you were saying, it's still a dangerous and addictive drug. And I hope you don't underestimate it because of the good it did. A man can help you out of a hole just to push you right off a cliff, ya know?
@@Vegan_Jen now time to quit the kratom. Don’t fool yourself, it will keep the door open for your opioid and H addictions. You’re still loading up your opioid receptors with kratom. I just celebrated 30 days kratom free and I feel amazing
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
Yeah, that's how I would use it for the first couple years & I never had issues. When I first went 2+ months without any real break, I felt withdrawals. But the past 3+ yrs I haven't taken any breaks & it's an addiction. I'm not sure how much I use, it varies btwn 20-40 grams of powder a day? It's not too much but if I run out, I get sick within a day. It's annoying because I'm just maintaining a habit now & getting nothing out of this.
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it. I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
@@vic9307 I was drinking tea from a kava bar this last time, but it was the strongest I could find… 3 large teas a day, which if I had to guess were about 10 grams each - So somewhere around 30 grams.
That’s probably you or your just weaker, I have been using it 10 years from a horrible opioid addiction, my blood work is perfect my liver is perfect, and I take week breaks all the time with no issues, the withdrawals are no where close to that of opioids. It’s all a mental game
Bunch of deniers lol. Anyways kudos to you. I just had to quit after 5 years of use, 10g a day 4-5 times a days @ 2g each. I run 500+ miles a year, have 6 kids, run half of a business and i i had every excuse to advocate for this shit. Any one 8yrs plus doing this shit is the real weak minded individuals because it now controls you and you all cant quit. Anyways, had an extreme scare with my digestive system, liver and kidneys, all related to kratom. I eat healthy, exercise and even compete, and I'll say this; the last 2 years my running has gotten slower and slower, and my weight kept shooting up. I have changed nothing except increasing my mileage, yet I packed on 40lbs of backed up smudged because kratom was coating and clogging my digestive system. My kidneys started to not filter correctly and my liver was in sooo much pain... 7 days off, the withdrawals are the worst I've ever experienced BUT GUESS WHAT? My liver and kidneys do not hurt anymore. I've dropped 5 lbs in 7 days and digestive system is starting to fire properly
About to go through kratom withdrawal again after work tomorrow night - I'm gonna kick tomorrow... Really been struggling with this. I'll suffer through 4,5,8,12 days and crack. Accepting I'm going to have to suffer for awhile. Got off suboxone almost a year ago as I've struggled with addiction - now it's the final frontier, kratom. Need warrior strength for this.
@@outtosea25 same with Suboxone ,I've been on it for 10 yrs then I heard of Kratom so I got the pills at first then I went to the loose powder. Then I didn't have it for a day or two ,it felt like Suboxone and opiate withdrawal x10.........I need some of your will power. Keep your head up. ❤
On it 5 yrs almost 4 times a day at 11-12 gram doses and its a bitch. Full on opiate withdrawals im constantly bouncing back n forth between k powder and suboxones. Also can't afford insurance so I have to buy the subs on the street. Crazy shit is I and my bm started takin it after a near fatal car accident she was in n I found it as a natural way to combat pain instead of getting hooked on pain pills smh. Was a great substance for what I thought was sobriety for the first few yrs now it doesn't even work long anymore and it's only used to no withdrawal. It's hell
Took it for weeks at a time as a weight loss supplement, to curve appetite. Dont be a junkie and you’re fine….. I’ve actually struggled before, if you can’t deal with kratom that’s on you….
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
I didn't know I was addicted to it till I broke my leg and couldn't go to the store. The withdrawals were insane! I had no idea that stuff would do that! It was worse than my leg injury. So glad I'm off the stuff. Anyone who's on it, please slowly get off it. It's rough but you can do it
This episode really hit home for me. I am en route to alcohol and drug addiction treatment in a week. I have been on the typical route of being a former HEAVY opiate addict, got clean and used kratom to curb the withdrawal symptoms. I sit here 5 years later, still off of opiates, yet 100% addicted to kratom, using a dangerous amount for 5 years, alongside of drinking a minimum of 10 tall boys a day, maximum of 40oz liquor. Kratom is dangerous for people like us, very dangerous. It's marketed like the miracle substance, yet it's the same ol game. I go in for treatment for kratom and alcohol next week, if you wanted to have a conversation about this feel free to respond to this post and I can stay in the loop during the process. You're an inspiration homie, thank you for your honesty
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom” Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more. Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people. Kratom saves lives.
@hunkerdown Nah dude…. There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to qutting kratom. A lot of those people are addicted to powder. 30g, 50g, 70g a day habits, those addictions are brutal. Not to mention powder and full spectrum extracts (which feel free would fall into) have TONS of alkaloids in addition to just mitragyne, which makes withdrawal agruably worse. It’s one thing if you have a scale and weigh out 5g’s 2-3 times a week, but you absolutely can become super dependent to powder….don’t kid yourself.
@ IMO, 30-70g a day is a lot! But hey, everyone is different. I think people underestimate the power of “less is more” with Kratom. I used to use a scale but now I can use a teaspoon to measure out 2g. I only consume 2g, 2 or 3x day, depending on my pain level. I have consumed all kinds of Kratom from powder & loose leaf to different kinds of extracts. I have noticed that when I consume extracts that have a higher amount of 7oH vs full spectrum, it throws off my regular powder intake and the powder isn’t as effective, essentially messing with my tolerance level to regular powder. I do believe there are people dependent on Kratom, for sure. Addicted seems like a strong term for regular powder.
Ive secretly started again... and i havent told anyone. And in doing it again at night. And during the day. I know im at 4 or 5 again. And i know its starting to have a major effect again. And i know better....
You can do it. You are self aware. You know you will feel so much better and free after you go a few days without. Just a few days and the suffering will be over my dude. You got this.
Just suffer through it now. You know you will eventually quit at some point when it gets even worse. Don’t lose the next 5 years or more of your life like I did. I wish I suffered sooner. Also, it will only get worse because you will be taking more, guarantee it. Good luck, my friend.
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
@@Ctpg93 Of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s good. It’s fine every once in a while, but the problem is that most people make it a daily habit, which you wind up needing just to feel “normal.”
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from. Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
I can relate to this so much and it makes me feel better to know I'm not alone. I'm 37 yrs old started using drugs at age 12 with weed and alcohol. Eventually ended up trying every drug in the book. Ended up becoming addicted to multiple drugs but my favorites were ketamine, heroin and cocaine. I had a heroin overdose in 2021 and knew this was no longer sustainable and I was gonna die if I didn't stop. I didn't want to go thru withdrawal and I knew about kratom and had tried it a few times thruought the years and I thought well it's better than heroin and prob won't kill me so I'll just do kratom instead and I'll quit all hard drugs and do kratom and weed and that's it. A year later i decided to quit kratom I knew I'd go thru withdrawal but I thought it would last 7 days like heroin. I started freaking out when weeks went by and I still felt like shit. I couldn't take it anymore and got on suboxone I stayed on for a year and a half but I was paying out of pocket and couldn't afford it anymore. So I tried to taper off. Long story short I failed and I'm back on kratom again. I do feel like I'm better off on kratom than heroin. Kratom and pot is Def more manageable and I'm more functional than when I was on harder substances. I wish I had the time available to sweat it out at home. I know if I didn't have to go to work everyday throughout the withdrawal period I prob could get through this but I can't take off enough time to get thru it so I'm kind of trapped. I can't afford to lose this job. I've worked it for 10 years and I'm a two time loser I've been to prison twice I don't know when I'd get another job if I got fired. Honestly I'm better off being on kratom than I would be if I got fired
@Jr42087 just try to always take a little less every couple days and then when you know you will have a hard day take a little more and it will have a strong effect. I take five grams a day then when I want to party I'll take 8. I used to drink 60 gs per day and then weaned down to 5 slowly. Good luck.
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
I've taken Kratom off and on for a few years, I was on opiates for 3 years after back surgery. I got off of those in 2019, but I never had an issue at all until a few weeks ago. I tried a red kratom, and it felt like I had taken opiates. I had never in the 4ish years of taking kratom felt that. I started taking kratom all day to get that feeling again. I travel during the week for work and ran out, felt absolutely terrible for two days, couldn't sleep at all because of restless leg, got a huge bag of capsules and felt fine again. My wife is also a recovering addict and I can't tell her what I'm going through, I don't know how to quit and I just don't want to be here anymore. I wish my brain didn't work like this, It's so much harder dealing with this by myself in a different hotel every night. I'm trying to cut back, but I feel like garbage and don't have the willpower. I don't ever comment on RUclips. I just don't have anybody to talk to and wanted to get this out somewhere.
@@mcnorris40 Sorry to hear about this struggle. Given that your wife is a former addict, she probably would be stoked if you reach out to her & open up to her about what you’re going through vs her possibly finding out some other way. She’s been in your shoes and can empathize & can be there for you. Have you tried Magnesium Glycinate for restless legs? Hang in there!!
@@mcnorris40 yo homie - I feel that pain. You will suffer as you quit, but that suffering doesn't last long. if you can find the strength, which you Definitely can (sounds like you've done it before!), just know that the suffering goes away after a few days or a week and then you're free. honestly, as shitty as it sounds, it might be best to tell your girl that you slipped up. there's a lot of misinfo about kratom and it's human to have made a mistake. having someone close to you that knows what's going on and can hold you responsible saved my life and helped me through the suffering.
@@mcnorris40 listen bro! You can do this! What worked for me was working out. Well plus a lil bit of prison. Lol. Don’t ever give up bro! Promise you it gets easier. Buckle down
20 years addicted to Kratom on and off. I withdrew from Vicodin and that's why I started with Kratom and it turned into a 2 decade addiction. I am currently in therapy and group meetings. I'm 60 years old and however long I live I want to do it sober. I needed to see this today because it is my first day of cold turkey after dropping down my dose. I took more kratom capsules then I could count some days. Thank you for this important video.
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
lets try to advocate for whole leaf material. out with the liquid extracts, 7oh tablets and all the other adulterated products. and also set up tapering guidelines and remind ppl that breaks are essential... its never what your doing its how your doing it
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
... This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 nah you're wrong. the thing is most people never get to the level of the use that will cause harsh withdraws. if you've used for 2+ years and take 30g+ per day you WILL have tough withdrawals. extracts make it even easier. for some people it takes less than that. and i mean about 1-2 weeks of cold sweats and no sleep, and then months of getting back to normal. especially if you have no support in other areas of your life. btw it's valid to have a positive opinion on kratom, but the denial you're showing hurts everybody. if you don't believe me, there's countless discussions online you can read.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
I take a few caps of Malaysian white with a couple cups of coffee as my pre workout before lifting. Never understood the kratom-opioid connection- to me it feels much more like a caffeine or yohimbine type of stimulant, never noticed anything opiate about it at all. In fact Kratom is in the same family as the coffee plant and from my understanding primarily hits the noradranergic receptors like typical stimulants would. The binding at the u opiod receptors is extremely low except the hydroxy metabolite. Maybe it's different for different people depending on your cytochrome expression and how you metabolize it.
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted? It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills. Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression. nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time. Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down. I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture. She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
Took it for a few years (powder at gas station in green/white bag mixed with soft drink or tea) then started having digestive problems stopped then had diarrhea every day for TWO MONTHS. Finally got better.
Nah, its not that bad just dont take over 20 grams a day and you wont withdrawl. Also, you can die from kratom withdrawl just benzos and alcohol so its def safer than both of those.
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often? I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
Withdrawal sucks but it’s usually four bad days then a blah week. Sleep can be messed up for a month. This is coming off 30gpd of powdered leaf for a few years. Extracts are way harder. Switch to leaf then taper a few weeks, then the cold turkey is way easier.
@ those four days can be so awful depending on amounts taken, but it’s def doable. The first time I quit when I was rly heavily using I couldn’t move those 4 days. I would just sit in my yard in a chair trying to absorb son and not puke 🤮
i have had restless legs since i was a teenager, when i was 44 my legs got so bad i could not sleep, i was going crazy flopping around beating on my calf muscles. I tried magnesium, cutting sugar, caffein, everything thing i read that said worked, i tried, nothing worked, then i heard about kratom, i tried a little bit and my legs relaxed and it was so sweet. It has been ten years now and i still get restless legs if i dont use kratom about every 2 or 3 hours. I only do 2 to 3 teaspoons at a time in a cup of water. I would ween off but my legs go crazy, so i dont know what to do. I am carnivore now, i dont eat any sugar or carbs and i do electrolites, i dont know what else to do for restless legs.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that. I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise. I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart. Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors. Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal. Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Kratom and 7-OH are great alternatives to illegal opioids and stimulants, but they do have side effects. Also, I have untreated AFIB myself; it scares me, but I don't yet have a cardiologist or even a primary care physician.
I started with play pain pills from an injury that had no desire to use them. Throughout life eventually, oxymorphone found its way to me. That's a very strong pain medication to start on it may have been discontinued. Anyhow like most opiate addicts, I graduated to heroin even though I said I was too good for that I would never do it. Then IV you spend the whole fentanyl thing. In between all this I have used kratom and it does have good effects, but overall it's a negative and it's something that you can be physically dependent on and it will give you opiate withdrawals. I just got a year off until September 5th.
Kratom is a fantastic tool for me personally. I swear by it, but I also know that any substance has the potential for abuse and negative side effects. Thankfully for me I haven't had any adverse reactions but I do know several people who have. Great pod guys
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now. I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
Thank you for this interview. Just to report, I never had a problem with kratom leaf in capsules. The first time I took a little bottle of extract, I wanted more and more. Luckily I haven't taken more than two in one day, but I was on the way to taking more before watching this video. Had an urge to take more and realized that this was an addictive impulse. Went looking for info and found this. Addictiveness confirmed. And I have to back up what one of you said; that the extract is what has made this dangerous for me, personally. I cannot take it because I am not strong enough to do it responsibly...
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
if you cant lay your head down at night knowing that you did everything with in your means to be a proper human being,then you're depriving yourself of one the best parts of our human experience. When you're able to be fully transparent, when you're finally able to comprehend understand the meaning of life and what your role in it will be. Then Being honest about your personal experience with something and sharing what you've learned is the best thing you could do. I loved this!!
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 while extracts are definitely MORE of the problem, the powder can be bad too. I quit off 50 grams per day and it was very bad. and yes, that's a dumb af amount but i'm not the only one. there are people who get up to 100 gpd. extracts basically remove all guardrails.
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
I take Kratom occasionally , I used to take 2 capsules twice a day for a couple months and I would forget someone’s on Sundays. I would always take breaks and never take more than 6 capsules in a day. I mostly quit because I stopped smoking and drugs and alcohol aren’t that fun without nicotine. I still smoke weed and haven’t been able to stop yet but I’ll get there.
The shots are terrible I started having urinary issues started peeing every 15 minutes and lasted for months until I finally quit and had a few months off everything went back to normal
You're the first I've seen mention this. I avoid extracts but take appx 15g of powder daily. I'm 45, which may account for some of it, but I have to go a lot. Seems like I'm in a bathroom every hour. It's somewhat concerning.
This is crazy. Everything in here is exactly what im going through. I tried to stop for 2 days and felt so bad like hes saing, on the inside, had every symptom of a blood infection, so thats what i thought it was. I told myself this cant just be withdrawals. And i was seing this new girl so i was thinking maybe its a std. The doctor came back and said everything's good, not dehydrated or nothing. She said all she could do is prescribe me rest. Its so hard to stop man. I wish I had never started.
I guess people get really strong Kratom or do really high dosages? What i buy, I can use this month straight, take week off and feel nothing. I just use it for energy boost and little bit pain relief when skating. (in Europe)
It's just people who cant control themselves so they take the whole bag or drink 10 of these shots a day, typical junkie behavior to then just blame it on the drug for ruining their own life. I'm a recovering heroin addict so I'm not speaking out of turn here. Addicts just love to shift responsibility off of themselves
I am thinking the same, dosages must be insanely high. I’ve used 3-4 scoops a few days a week for years. I always take a break and very seldomly use more than 2 consecutive days and never had withdrawal symptoms when not using. (US)
Its the extracts, up to 50x more potent compared to the powder. Makes sense, the powder stuff is just few % of potency, so its like beer compared to moonshine as someone pointed out.
Bottom line is anything ingested that alters your mood can become addictive. Especially if you had a drug and alcohol problem and looking for an excuse to be addicted to something new. Example my friends that are addicted to weed.oh its natural it's ok its good for you. No its not natural to smoke. It alters it numbs it distracts..natural is becoming sober and dealing with real life real emotions. Aware of all you missed in life
I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day.
7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Agmatine is sold as a pre-workout supplement and it helps with opioid withdrawal. It's not magic but it helps a little bit.
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well.
I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted!
I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled.
Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago.
Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
look for a recovery group in your area…be good to yourself…you’re not alone.
You got this friend
I got strung out on kratom last year. The culture around it is unlike ANYTHING I've ever seen.
It's literally a sht ton of people in denial about their addiction lobbying how harmless it is and severely attacking those who share their story of how bad it destroyed their lives .
It's INSANE !
I've been addicted to every f$cking drug they tell you not to ever try and I've NEVER seen anything like it!
I don't think anyone should be able to tell us what we can or can't put into our own body.
I do think it should be illegal to package an opiate in cartoon pink hippo packaging with absolutely no warning labels saying that it's EXTREMELY addictive and dangerous.
It's INSANE!
Thank you so much for sharing this message!
💯💯💯
@@Starr_unlimited Absolutely 💯% on point! I’m a year sober from a 2 year Kratom addiction, I feel for anyone who has gone through full opiate withdrawal because the Kratom WDs I went through were complete hell!
A video could be made saying the same things about caffeine as they are about kratom
I'm an addict and like most addicts I need to be addicted to something.
I recommend everyone quit all the drugs and chemicals and get addicted to a sport. Any sport, doesn't matter what it is, find what you enjoy and gives you a smile and get addicted to it
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah!
Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit.
What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco.
Good work BTW!
I'm in same boat. My stomach hurts from all the capsules I take. My joints kill if I don't take it
@@sallieharer9407Do you have somebody you can confide in??
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
@@nicholaskoenig3106 thanks bro! Keep it up the good work .
STAY AWAY FROM EXTRACTS!!!
So important. Lose kratom does not let me abuse it, its physically impossible essentially. Get sweaty and vomit any time ive tried loll
@ Facts. That’s whole-leaf powders built-in safety mechanism
What's the difference
@@DrMatthewHudson extracts are concentrated version of powder. Put simply, beer vs moonshine.
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
Jason, we talked about Kratom after I made A Leaf of Faith. Since then I’ve learned so much about Kratom that wasn’t appearing in the science at the time. I’d love to come talk to you again anytime. At that time in 2017 the extracts weren’t really around. Now the business is out of control.
The 7 Oz are 14 times stronger than opiate pain killers and they run about 5 to 10 bucks a chewable tablet. My local smoke shop has daily case delivery because they can't keep them on the shelves. I tried one and couldn't believe it was like a Oxy or Perc
@IhaveTheKrabbyPattyForumla that is a problem people abusing extracts seeking a high. I been taking kratom 6.5yrs I was on 300mg of oxycodone for 25yrs and was cut off like millions of other pain patients. If someone has not addressed their addiction issue then they can get addicted to alot of things.i have never felt the need to abuse kratom. Also kratom if u take to much u will puke and it make u feel horrible but u will not die.i have tried to take alot of kratom to see what would happen and I puked.but people are buying these extract seeking a High like drugs and u cannot get high on pure kratom. I have tried the extract also they gave me some energy is all.nothing compared to pills.
s/o Jason for being honest about his addiction, you’re literally saving lives…
6:09
I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight.
I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor.
In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day.
Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years.
I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom.
I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression.
Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
love to hear it
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
@@thateabishhh discount code?
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years.
I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc.
I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate.
Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
@@jodo1971 I just got into kratom. I'ts day 4 and I'm taking roughly 6 grams daily. Is that too much, and would it be ok if I keep it at this level ? Hoping to get a job and take this to work with me for energy and anxiety reasons. Any thoughts or tips would be helpful. Thanks!
I've been on kratom for 5 years and i have two kids now. Kratom has made me feel completely numb through it all. I want to quit but I just can't.m for some reason. I need to get professional help
@@RalphCastelli I have 2 year old girl, she will be 3 in February. I have been on kratom 20% extract for past 4 years. I take 230mg 5 times a day…. It really depresses me because I feel I’ve wasted a genuine experience I could’ve had the last 2 years with my daughter. Kratom has made numb.. but it got me off heavy weekend drinking I had for 15 years prior…
It’s hell. It’s easier said than done, but can you go into a treatment center? Do you have health insurance? You can take a FMLA & get the treatment you deserve. I really hope you do, man. I’m sorry
I’ve been sober from alcohol for 6 years but have been using kratom in some form or fashion throughout. I’m currently in the process of checking myself into rehab for the second time after years of abuse. You described my story to T! Can’t thank you guys enough for your candor and bringing awareness as the shame and withdrawal are so real. Been in denial for years but this episode was the nudge I needed to finally seek help 🙏
Addictions, people with addictions have dealt with a lot within their youth, growing up, the trauma has rewired our brains for self destruction for life where there’s a constant battle within the head. Much respect to ones who deal with addictions who are battling with being sober. Much love and strength 🙌🙏
I recently fell off after being sober for over ten months. I cracked and now hard time stopping again. I haven’t been sober since my teens.
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
Agreed . I backed myself back from way to much. I definitely wouldn’t go cold turkey that’s crazy.
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
@thedude130 if you hit a roadblock don't go over what your taking at the time. I needed to stay at a dose for a few days bc it got too intense.
I’ve quit 4 times so far. Tells you how easy it is to taper off and restart lol addict moves
@@billsny9243 just give yourself grace it’s easy for everyone to taper. This stuff is no joke.
I took Kratom for about 4 years, was up to about 16 -20 grams a day. It was making my life worse at that point. Less motivated, foggy, lower libido. I started tapering last summer. I'm now at 1 gram a day in 2 , 1/2 doses and feel incredible. I'm almost ready to stop altogether. I have had almost no withdrawal in the method I used of a large drop at first then, halved every month after. I went from 16-20 to 4, stayed there for 2 months, then to 2 for a month, now at 1 for almost 3 weeks.
Update: my last day taking any was November 20th. I've had absolutely no issues since. My life is much more productive and I enjoy things so much more. My ability to be present and productive is through the roof.
Amazing man ! Congrats
I have been taking kratom since 2016 for severe RLS it got to a point that i was taking 5 grams of powder(never extracts) every 3 hours so i decided to taper down bit by bit. I used measuring spoons. I am now down to taking less than 1 gram if powder 2 times a day. My RLS is much better and i'm confident i will be able to quit in the near future. The withdraws are slightly annoying but no worse than a mild flu.
I currently toss and wash kratom powder several times a day. I would love to quit some day but without Kratom, I would have unalived myself years ago. I am a recovering heroin addict who struggles with treatment resistant depression. When I left rehab the last time (for opioid addiction), my depression was crippling. I had no energy or motivation for anything. I hated the rooms of NA, and couldn’t get myself out of bed for any type of job. I have been on over 3 antidepressants that just made me feel worse. Idk why life sucks this much.
Darling you need to start fast for 3 days than eat regularly fir a week than fast again body will prepare itself it will take time stay a way from antidepressants as much as you can it took me 2 years to kick off suboxone yeah 2 crazy years I lost everything in process everything thru the time getting sober and I never took more than 1.5 mg for 3 years took me 2 years to start feeling normal
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
Did this shit for 3 years daily now. 2 extracts a day. 72 hours clean right this moment and I’m not going back. My withdrawals have only been some tossing and turning / restless legs at night but it’s getting better. Prayers for everyone, you CAN get off this crap
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution.
Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
This was a fantastic podcast. I was an extremely heavy user for 6 years, and I am proud to say that I am just over 2 years sober from the green sludge. I want everyone in this thread to know that it's possible to quit, no matter how deep you are. I got to the point where my digestive and endocrine systems were completely decimated, and I quit cold turkey with the help of the quittingkratom community on Reddit. Lots of strong people on there with great advice. Much love to anyone struggling out there, your future self will thank you if you taper and quit!
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
We got this. I’m in the same boat but getting there
@ yeah man! Stay positive!
Bros shits are probably hard as cement no homo
Proud of ya. I’m to 9.5 on my taper from a zip a day. Let’s go homie 😊
@ F yeah!
People saying the leaves are not addictive are wrong. For some they are. I used to only buy fresh leaves, fresh off the tree, and i still got hooked.
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
Sounds like a job for RFK Jr. Scary stuff, glad you're all ok to talk about the issue🙏💪
I take the capsules. Full handful like 16, 3 or 4 times a day. No one knows.
@@sallieharer9407 even the powder and capsules are super addictive. I was addicted to leaf powder before I started extracts. It’s a helluva drug.
@@Reegs44r1 I hope he does ban it so I can stop
@@sallieharer9407I'm doing the same thing, and the extracts too. They are so expensive. I'm ashamed of myself.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
They will get it banned guaranteed
I agree. I tell people to stay away from kratom for the most part, but this isn’t the most nuanced discussion about it and they’re by no means kratom experts. I think People have trouble with the kratom conversation because it is the definition of shade of grey. Helpful for some people, destructive for others. I know people who use feel free totally responsibly and have zero issues with it, and I know people (including myself) that struggle with an addiction to it. It’s just an interesting topic in that regard. But believe me, there are A LOT of substances out there that are way worse than kratom, and that doesn’t mean I think kratom is a good thing. Once again, shade of grey.
Kratom addict here, to the point where im writing this from a detox center. I was om multiple extract shots a day. It made me so sick and anxiety stricken, i was going to the hospital and abusing my benzos thinking i was going through benzo withdrawl. It took me a while to realize that its the kratom. Im wo happy that i checked myself in, going on day 5 kratom clean. Can finally wake up without sweats and panic/vomiting. Already feel happier about my life and more upbeat and motivated. I couldnt do it on my own, anyone seeking help... Do not be embarassed, the detox centers will understand. This stuff has been out for a while, they know how to treat it.
Did you experience shortness of breath and severe anxiety while on feel free ?
Also what did they medicate you with in detox ?
Not sure what year I first discovered Kratom, but at that time there was almost no US vendors. I bought it from Indonesia. I'm so surprised to see how common it is now. You definitely have to tread lightly with it, though. Especially since it's so readily available now. I try to use it only a few times a month. There's been a few times that I've caught myself taking it more often, just gotta try to reel it in when that happens. I've been heroin-free for 25 years.
My guy! I started in 2014 and did the exact same thing
Haha, you may recognize my logo, I was one of the first importers in the states.
@@ughhstuff have you ever wondered how many lives you destroyed and how much misery you were responsible for?
@@scarab9762 No. I only sell powder. Selling extract is unethical.
@@scarab9762 Ive gotten many gifts, letters and tons of apprecieation and since I only sell powder,no extracts. I dont believe I caused any misery, I know that kratom has helped many of the clients for numerous things. Seems like you just have an addictive personality and abuse it.
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole
Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago.
I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
I was a HARDCORE heroin and meth IV user for 15 years and lost my kids and everything. My husband (also dad of my 4 kids) over dosed from fentanyl 2 years ago. That’s when I never touched it again because I was introduced to kratum. It saved my life! My kids have their mommy again! I would have ended up dying too and left my kids with NO PARENTS AT ALL had I not found kratum
That's great! But what they're saying is even though it has some good benefits like with what you were saying, it's still a dangerous and addictive drug. And I hope you don't underestimate it because of the good it did. A man can help you out of a hole just to push you right off a cliff, ya know?
@@Vegan_Jen congratulation! What a turn around! #kratomsaveslives
Your liver and kidneys are turning to mush. Enjoy
Some people can use the powder responsibly. However not everyone. And especially not the shots and concentrates.
@@Vegan_Jen now time to quit the kratom. Don’t fool yourself, it will keep the door open for your opioid and H addictions. You’re still loading up your opioid receptors with kratom. I just celebrated 30 days kratom free and I feel amazing
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
its nothing compared to the extracts like the 7ohmz pills
Yeah, that's how I would use it for the first couple years & I never had issues. When I first went 2+ months without any real break, I felt withdrawals.
But the past 3+ yrs I haven't taken any breaks & it's an addiction. I'm not sure how much I use, it varies btwn 20-40 grams of powder a day? It's not too much but if I run out, I get sick within a day. It's annoying because I'm just maintaining a habit now & getting nothing out of this.
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it.
I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
what was your dose
@@vic9307 I was drinking tea from a kava bar this last time, but it was the strongest I could find… 3 large teas a day, which if I had to guess were about 10 grams each - So somewhere around 30 grams.
That’s probably you or your just weaker, I have been using it 10 years from a horrible opioid addiction, my blood work is perfect my liver is perfect, and I take week breaks all the time with no issues, the withdrawals are no where close to that of opioids. It’s all a mental game
Bunch of deniers lol. Anyways kudos to you. I just had to quit after 5 years of use, 10g a day 4-5 times a days @ 2g each. I run 500+ miles a year, have 6 kids, run half of a business and i i had every excuse to advocate for this shit. Any one 8yrs plus doing this shit is the real weak minded individuals because it now controls you and you all cant quit. Anyways, had an extreme scare with my digestive system, liver and kidneys, all related to kratom. I eat healthy, exercise and even compete, and I'll say this; the last 2 years my running has gotten slower and slower, and my weight kept shooting up. I have changed nothing except increasing my mileage, yet I packed on 40lbs of backed up smudged because kratom was coating and clogging my digestive system. My kidneys started to not filter correctly and my liver was in sooo much pain... 7 days off, the withdrawals are the worst I've ever experienced BUT GUESS WHAT? My liver and kidneys do not hurt anymore. I've dropped 5 lbs in 7 days and digestive system is starting to fire properly
About to go through kratom withdrawal again after work tomorrow night - I'm gonna kick tomorrow... Really been struggling with this. I'll suffer through 4,5,8,12 days and crack. Accepting I'm going to have to suffer for awhile. Got off suboxone almost a year ago as I've struggled with addiction - now it's the final frontier, kratom. Need warrior strength for this.
@@outtosea25 same with Suboxone ,I've been on it for 10 yrs then I heard of Kratom so I got the pills at first then I went to the loose powder. Then I didn't have it for a day or two ,it felt like Suboxone and opiate withdrawal x10.........I need some of your will power. Keep your head up. ❤
@@outtosea25 how did the withdrawal go?
People that say the powder isn’t addictive don’t know wtf they’re talking about
only if you boof it.
@cheepchicken lol yeah man i was going through two 8oz packs a week, it got pretty bad. Felt just like i was withdrawing from heroin
@@cheepchicken i agree I'm addicted to the power for 7 years now
On it 5 yrs almost 4 times a day at 11-12 gram doses and its a bitch. Full on opiate withdrawals im constantly bouncing back n forth between k powder and suboxones. Also can't afford insurance so I have to buy the subs on the street. Crazy shit is I and my bm started takin it after a near fatal car accident she was in n I found it as a natural way to combat pain instead of getting hooked on pain pills smh. Was a great substance for what I thought was sobriety for the first few yrs now it doesn't even work long anymore and it's only used to no withdrawal. It's hell
Took it for weeks at a time as a weight loss supplement, to curve appetite. Dont be a junkie and you’re fine….. I’ve actually struggled before, if you can’t deal with kratom that’s on you….
Kratom saved my life. I got all 4 of my kids back, and I no longer am locked in my bathroom digging for a vein because of kratum!
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
Kratom powder and extracts are also very different.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
Harm reduction. Just avoid extracts and shots
So many ppl alive today managed to pull through the early 2000s. So many of us r finally clear and it’s awesome to hear these conversations💯
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
Thanks Jason. Haven't watched your podcast in 4ever, glad to be back
I was warning Jason about this in the comments years ago, when he was pushing Kratom as a sponsor.
I get pisssed off at podcasters who promote this stuff for dollars.
I didn't know I was addicted to it till I broke my leg and couldn't go to the store. The withdrawals were insane! I had no idea that stuff would do that! It was worse than my leg injury. So glad I'm off the stuff. Anyone who's on it, please slowly get off it. It's rough but you can do it
This episode really hit home for me.
I am en route to alcohol and drug addiction treatment in a week. I have been on the typical route of being a former HEAVY opiate addict, got clean and used kratom to curb the withdrawal symptoms. I sit here 5 years later, still off of opiates, yet 100% addicted to kratom, using a dangerous amount for 5 years, alongside of drinking a minimum of 10 tall boys a day, maximum of 40oz liquor.
Kratom is dangerous for people like us, very dangerous. It's marketed like the miracle substance, yet it's the same ol game.
I go in for treatment for kratom and alcohol next week, if you wanted to have a conversation about this feel free to respond to this post and I can stay in the loop during the process.
You're an inspiration homie, thank you for your honesty
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom”
Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more.
Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people.
Kratom saves lives.
@@hunkerdown there’s literally no difference in withdrawal
@hunkerdown
Nah dude…. There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to qutting kratom. A lot of those people are addicted to powder.
30g, 50g, 70g a day habits, those addictions are brutal. Not to mention powder and full spectrum extracts (which feel free would fall into) have TONS of alkaloids in addition to just mitragyne, which makes withdrawal agruably worse.
It’s one thing if you have a scale and weigh out 5g’s 2-3 times a week, but you absolutely can become super dependent to powder….don’t kid yourself.
@@topher3178 my experience has been different
@ IMO, 30-70g a day is a lot! But hey, everyone is different. I think people underestimate the power of “less is more” with Kratom.
I used to use a scale but now I can use a teaspoon to measure out 2g. I only consume 2g, 2 or 3x day, depending on my pain level.
I have consumed all kinds of Kratom from powder & loose leaf to different kinds of extracts. I have noticed that when I consume extracts that have a higher amount of 7oH vs full spectrum, it throws off my regular powder intake and the powder isn’t as effective, essentially messing with my tolerance level to regular powder.
I do believe there are people dependent on Kratom, for sure. Addicted seems like a strong term for regular powder.
Ive secretly started again... and i havent told anyone. And in doing it again at night. And during the day. I know im at 4 or 5 again. And i know its starting to have a major effect again. And i know better....
Addiction sucks, I’m here if you need to vent. Good luck brother
I believe in you. You can get off it and stay off it
You can do it. You are self aware. You know you will feel so much better and free after you go a few days without. Just a few days and the suffering will be over my dude. You got this.
Just suffer through it now. You know you will eventually quit at some point when it gets even worse. Don’t lose the next 5 years or more of your life like I did. I wish I suffered sooner. Also, it will only get worse because you will be taking more, guarantee it. Good luck, my friend.
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
Is it not better than potentially getting aids from dirty needles?
@@Ctpg93Don't be retarded. The point is to get shit into control.
Congrats so glad kratom helped you.
@@Ctpg93 Of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s good. It’s fine every once in a while, but the problem is that most people make it a daily habit, which you wind up needing just to feel “normal.”
The lying to oneself... "At least I'm not slamming dope"... Easy to rationalize kratom addiction until it isn't.
The withdrawal is bad. I get rls at night if I don't take it. I just started taking for energy, and now I can't stop.
How much are you taking?
@smokenmonkeyco6201 I'm not sure. The capsules are killing my guts. I get 500 capsules and take in a week
@@sallieharer9407 its really not that hard. Dint psyche yourself out
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from.
Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
Those 2 elements help a lot
I can relate to this so much and it makes me feel better to know I'm not alone. I'm 37 yrs old started using drugs at age 12 with weed and alcohol. Eventually ended up trying every drug in the book. Ended up becoming addicted to multiple drugs but my favorites were ketamine, heroin and cocaine. I had a heroin overdose in 2021 and knew this was no longer sustainable and I was gonna die if I didn't stop. I didn't want to go thru withdrawal and I knew about kratom and had tried it a few times thruought the years and I thought well it's better than heroin and prob won't kill me so I'll just do kratom instead and I'll quit all hard drugs and do kratom and weed and that's it. A year later i decided to quit kratom I knew I'd go thru withdrawal but I thought it would last 7 days like heroin. I started freaking out when weeks went by and I still felt like shit. I couldn't take it anymore and got on suboxone I stayed on for a year and a half but I was paying out of pocket and couldn't afford it anymore. So I tried to taper off. Long story short I failed and I'm back on kratom again. I do feel like I'm better off on kratom than heroin. Kratom and pot is Def more manageable and I'm more functional than when I was on harder substances. I wish I had the time available to sweat it out at home. I know if I didn't have to go to work everyday throughout the withdrawal period I prob could get through this but I can't take off enough time to get thru it so I'm kind of trapped. I can't afford to lose this job. I've worked it for 10 years and I'm a two time loser I've been to prison twice I don't know when I'd get another job if I got fired. Honestly I'm better off being on kratom than I would be if I got fired
@Jr42087 just try to always take a little less every couple days and then when you know you will have a hard day take a little more and it will have a strong effect. I take five grams a day then when I want to party I'll take 8. I used to drink 60 gs per day and then weaned down to 5 slowly. Good luck.
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
Great conversation, thanks guys. Addiction in any form sucks and hard to be honest about.
I've taken Kratom off and on for a few years, I was on opiates for 3 years after back surgery. I got off of those in 2019, but I never had an issue at all until a few weeks ago. I tried a red kratom, and it felt like I had taken opiates. I had never in the 4ish years of taking kratom felt that. I started taking kratom all day to get that feeling again. I travel during the week for work and ran out, felt absolutely terrible for two days, couldn't sleep at all because of restless leg, got a huge bag of capsules and felt fine again. My wife is also a recovering addict and I can't tell her what I'm going through, I don't know how to quit and I just don't want to be here anymore. I wish my brain didn't work like this, It's so much harder dealing with this by myself in a different hotel every night. I'm trying to cut back, but I feel like garbage and don't have the willpower. I don't ever comment on RUclips. I just don't have anybody to talk to and wanted to get this out somewhere.
@@mcnorris40 Sorry to hear about this struggle. Given that your wife is a former addict, she probably would be stoked if you reach out to her & open up to her about what you’re going through vs her possibly finding out some other way. She’s been in your shoes and can empathize & can be there for you.
Have you tried Magnesium Glycinate for restless legs?
Hang in there!!
I used God. Find something that's not being scared of hurting
@@mcnorris40 yo homie - I feel that pain. You will suffer as you quit, but that suffering doesn't last long. if you can find the strength, which you Definitely can (sounds like you've done it before!), just know that the suffering goes away after a few days or a week and then you're free. honestly, as shitty as it sounds, it might be best to tell your girl that you slipped up. there's a lot of misinfo about kratom and it's human to have made a mistake. having someone close to you that knows what's going on and can hold you responsible saved my life and helped me through the suffering.
And the other side of that period of shittiness is beautiful!
@@mcnorris40 listen bro! You can do this! What worked for me was working out. Well plus a lil bit of prison. Lol. Don’t ever give up bro! Promise you it gets easier. Buckle down
20 years addicted to Kratom on and off. I withdrew from Vicodin and that's why I started with Kratom and it turned into a 2 decade addiction. I am currently in therapy and group meetings. I'm 60 years old and however long I live I want to do it sober. I needed to see this today because it is my first day of cold turkey after dropping down my dose. I took more kratom capsules then I could count some days. Thank you for this important video.
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
Jesus 600-800 dollars a week on kratom? 😮
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
Sounds more like poor life choices, take some responsibility
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
Yeah the extracts got nuts. I was spending a shit ton on them and was just chasing the tolerance
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest
I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
Kratom is definitely a drug and now with the 7oh stuff it will get krarom banned. Im calling it now
@@Azepam people always have to ruin things by 10x it. Using the traditional leaf is like coffee:
lets try to advocate for whole leaf material. out with the liquid extracts, 7oh tablets and all the other adulterated products. and also set up tapering guidelines and remind ppl that breaks are essential... its never what your doing its how your doing it
Thank you guys for the vid
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
Deonside huh who's that mate a black guy athlete or some shisa
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
Correct. It’s not comparable. It’s like saying THC-O is the same as some regular marijuana.
100% the leaf is self-regulating. I have been using Kratom for almost 20 years.
@@corneliusparkin2401 thc-o mess you up ?
RUclips will not allow me to comment. The leaf is addictive ffs
@@vlnow not nearly as much as the extracts, also youtube did allow you to comment
Interesting episode Jason. Thanks ❤️✨
I have heard nothing good about this drug. Glad Jason is man enough to talk about the hard stuff
...
This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 nah you're wrong. the thing is most people never get to the level of the use that will cause harsh withdraws. if you've used for 2+ years and take 30g+ per day you WILL have tough withdrawals. extracts make it even easier. for some people it takes less than that. and i mean about 1-2 weeks of cold sweats and no sleep, and then months of getting back to normal. especially if you have no support in other areas of your life. btw it's valid to have a positive opinion on kratom, but the denial you're showing hurts everybody. if you don't believe me, there's countless discussions online you can read.
@@Tincanbanana3030 yeah it's stupid.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
I take a few caps of Malaysian white with a couple cups of coffee as my pre workout before lifting. Never understood the kratom-opioid connection- to me it feels much more like a caffeine or yohimbine type of stimulant, never noticed anything opiate about it at all. In fact Kratom is in the same family as the coffee plant and from my understanding primarily hits the noradranergic receptors like typical stimulants would. The binding at the u opiod receptors is extremely low except the hydroxy metabolite. Maybe it's different for different people depending on your cytochrome expression and how you metabolize it.
Such an important conversation. Thanks, guys.🙏🏻
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@hosswilder9885 what kind of extracts were you taking? Caps or drinks/ how many?
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted?
It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills.
Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression.
nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time.
Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
Holiday heart syndrome. Had it for years.2years sober after 30 years!good show guys!
Currently struggling with kicking the kratom. Done it for years cuz I did opioids for 10 years. Hard as hell. Good on ya Ellis it's tough
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down.
I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture.
She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
@@JustinHenke-b2y you can do it bro. It’s not easy. Good luck!
You me same. Fuggin dr drop me like a rock. Been on the Kratom and now the new stuff is low grade heroin in a shot. I’m gonna ween.
Took it for a few years (powder at gas station in green/white bag mixed with soft drink or tea) then started having digestive problems stopped then had diarrhea every day for TWO MONTHS. Finally got better.
Here's my sign to get off this demon.
@@F3lloww go to quittingkratom subreddit. Get ready for hell but it’s temporaey
Nah, its not that bad just dont take over 20 grams a day and you wont withdrawl. Also, you can die from kratom withdrawl just benzos and alcohol so its def safer than both of those.
kratom extracts like Feel Free and OPMS are WAYYYYY worse than regular leaf
Absolutely! Huge difference
"Regular Leaf" AKA taking 20 capsules and thinking it's normal.
Correct.
@@UpriseMusic 20 capsules is not normal. Just a tsp of powder. 2-4 g
It is for addicts. 20 pills three times a day for ppl who struggle with wanting to be high as possible all day long.@ughhstuff
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
@@allthingssilver7635
I used subs to get off kratom lol
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often?
I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
I miss seeing the guests reactions to the intro song 😁 always made me giggle. I even sang with Jason 🤣
Thank you for this episode made me feel like I'm not alone in this
~~~Great Show I've heard Ellis talk about it breefly on Hawk v Wolf but I didn't know much about it. Now I do thanx~~~
Withdrawal sucks but it’s usually four bad days then a blah week. Sleep can be messed up for a month. This is coming off 30gpd of powdered leaf for a few years.
Extracts are way harder. Switch to leaf then taper a few weeks, then the cold turkey is way easier.
4 days was my experience also
@ those four days can be so awful depending on amounts taken, but it’s def doable. The first time I quit when I was rly heavily using I couldn’t move those 4 days. I would just sit in my yard in a chair trying to absorb son and not puke 🤮
i have had restless legs since i was a teenager, when i was 44 my legs got so bad i could not sleep, i was going crazy flopping around beating on my calf muscles. I tried magnesium, cutting sugar, caffein, everything thing i read that said worked, i tried, nothing worked, then i heard about kratom, i tried a little bit and my legs relaxed and it was so sweet. It has been ten years now and i still get restless legs if i dont use kratom about every 2 or 3 hours. I only do 2 to 3 teaspoons at a time in a cup of water. I would ween off but my legs go crazy, so i dont know what to do. I am carnivore now, i dont eat any sugar or carbs and i do electrolites, i dont know what else to do for restless legs.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
That sounds like a personal problem. We don't need to take it away because some people make worse choices than others
I knew it was addictive and I chose to take it and i'm fine with that. it's 2 dollars a day.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 were did I say it needs to be takin away?
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 whatever drug pusher
Thats why scapegoating kratom is bad. This is a behavioral issue.
Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!!
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
It is not an opiate. Its an opiate antagonist. No opium in it.
Thanks for having Noah on. He's in my FB group and has been a direct help to me.
This would be so helpful if they highlighted that extracts ARE SOLD AS KRATOM BUT ARE NOT KRATOM
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 kratom pusher
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937 stronger than morphine, lmao. kratom feels weaker than codeine. Never understood how anyone gets addicted to this crap.
@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 just a label saying this is very addictive. Not everyone knows what kratom is. This way is straightforward
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the extracts are crazy, they make you sick. Very different than taking 3 pills here and there
Im just glad youre better Jason 🫡
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that.
I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise.
I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart.
Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors.
Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal.
Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Kratom and 7-OH are great alternatives to illegal opioids and stimulants, but they do have side effects. Also, I have untreated AFIB myself; it scares me, but I don't yet have a cardiologist or even a primary care physician.
I started with play pain pills from an injury that had no desire to use them. Throughout life eventually, oxymorphone found its way to me. That's a very strong pain medication to start on it may have been discontinued. Anyhow like most opiate addicts, I graduated to heroin even though I said I was too good for that I would never do it. Then IV you spend the whole fentanyl thing. In between all this I have used kratom and it does have good effects, but overall it's a negative and it's something that you can be physically dependent on and it will give you opiate withdrawals.
I just got a year off until September 5th.
I was eating 25 in the morning and at night
@@Skrillon oxymorphone opana personally if snorted is a better high then any other opiate super hard wds
Kratom is a fantastic tool for me personally. I swear by it, but I also know that any substance has the potential for abuse and negative side effects. Thankfully for me I haven't had any adverse reactions but I do know several people who have. Great pod guys
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now.
I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
Damn. Good job dude.
Good job. The other things are even tougher than kratom
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
@@Tincanbanana3030 much harder
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
Thank you for this interview.
Just to report, I never had a problem with kratom leaf in capsules. The first time I took a little bottle of extract, I wanted more and more. Luckily I haven't taken more than two in one day, but I was on the way to taking more before watching this video.
Had an urge to take more and realized that this was an addictive impulse. Went looking for info and found this. Addictiveness confirmed. And I have to back up what one of you said; that the extract is what has made this dangerous for me, personally. I cannot take it because I am not strong enough to do it responsibly...
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
@@beastmerc84 kava is not way more potent. It’s just another thing that’s similar to kratom.
Absolutely...Way more potent
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
@@corneliusparkin2401 Kratom extract is way more dangerous n way more toxic, stronger on all levels...Trust me, it's no good!!
@corneliusparkin2401 Makes sense.
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
if you cant lay your head down at night knowing that you did everything with in your means to be a proper human being,then you're depriving yourself of one the best parts of our human experience. When you're able to be fully transparent, when you're finally able to comprehend understand the meaning of life and what your role in it will be. Then Being honest about your personal experience with something and sharing what you've learned is the best thing you could do. I loved this!!
I currently take about 30 grams a day i have a really bad addiction and want to get off asap im working on tapering now.
Maybe the extract is more of a problem
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 while extracts are definitely MORE of the problem, the powder can be bad too. I quit off 50 grams per day and it was very bad. and yes, that's a dumb af amount but i'm not the only one. there are people who get up to 100 gpd. extracts basically remove all guardrails.
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the leaf can still be highly addicting
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
I take Kratom occasionally , I used to take 2 capsules twice a day for a couple months and I would forget someone’s on Sundays. I would always take breaks and never take more than 6 capsules in a day. I mostly quit because I stopped smoking and drugs and alcohol aren’t that fun without nicotine. I still smoke weed and haven’t been able to stop yet but I’ll get there.
The shots are terrible I started having urinary issues started peeing every 15 minutes and lasted for months until I finally quit and had a few months off everything went back to normal
You're the first I've seen mention this. I avoid extracts but take appx 15g of powder daily. I'm 45, which may account for some of it, but I have to go a lot. Seems like I'm in a bathroom every hour. It's somewhat concerning.
This is crazy. Everything in here is exactly what im going through. I tried to stop for 2 days and felt so bad like hes saing, on the inside, had every symptom of a blood infection, so thats what i thought it was. I told myself this cant just be withdrawals. And i was seing this new girl so i was thinking maybe its a std. The doctor came back and said everything's good, not dehydrated or nothing. She said all she could do is prescribe me rest. Its so hard to stop man. I wish I had never started.
I guess people get really strong Kratom or do really high dosages? What i buy, I can use this month straight, take week off and feel nothing. I just use it for energy boost and little bit pain relief when skating. (in Europe)
It's just people who cant control themselves so they take the whole bag or drink 10 of these shots a day, typical junkie behavior to then just blame it on the drug for ruining their own life. I'm a recovering heroin addict so I'm not speaking out of turn here. Addicts just love to shift responsibility off of themselves
I am thinking the same, dosages must be insanely high. I’ve used 3-4 scoops a few days a week for years. I always take a break and very seldomly use more than 2 consecutive days and never had withdrawal symptoms when not using. (US)
They using extracts thats mixed with kava and caffiene. Its not kratom.
@@aharbaugh5909 Just googled Kratom extracts, that explains it. Its up to 50x stronger compared to the powder.
Its the extracts, up to 50x more potent compared to the powder. Makes sense, the powder stuff is just few % of potency, so its like beer compared to moonshine as someone pointed out.
Great ep
Dude said he took 1 shot every three hours and took 8-10 a day? Something's not adding up. We all got the same 24 lol
@@Consumer0001 😂😂😂
Not sure what kind of math you are doing, but take 1 every 3 hours equals 8 in a 24 hour period lol
This video deserves a lot more than 11,000 views
Bottom line is anything ingested that alters your mood can become addictive. Especially if you had a drug and alcohol problem and looking for an excuse to be addicted to something new. Example my friends that are addicted to weed.oh its natural it's ok its good for you. No its not natural to smoke. It alters it numbs it distracts..natural is becoming sober and dealing with real life real emotions. Aware of all you missed in life
@@oscarlozano1983 well said!