I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day. 7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well. I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted! I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled. Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago. Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
I'm an addict and like most addicts I need to be addicted to something. I recommend everyone quit all the drugs and chemicals and get addicted to a sport. Any sport, doesn't matter what it is, find what you enjoy and gives you a smile and get addicted to it
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
6:09 I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight. I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor. In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day. Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years. I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom. I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression. Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years. I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc. I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate. Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
Watching this as I’m on day 4 without Kratom. 8 years straight. Never took a break, never even tried to stop. And I finally made the decision that I don’t want this substance in my life anymore. On Suboxone from the doctor for 2 weeks to help withdrawal symptoms. Needed this reminder as to why I can’t ever go back to Kratom.
Did this shit for 3 years daily now. 2 extracts a day. 72 hours clean right this moment and I’m not going back. My withdrawals have only been some tossing and turning / restless legs at night but it’s getting better. Prayers for everyone, you CAN get off this crap
Addictions, people with addictions have dealt with a lot within their youth, growing up, the trauma has rewired our brains for self destruction for life where there’s a constant battle within the head. Much respect to ones who deal with addictions who are battling with being sober. Much love and strength 🙌🙏
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah! Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit. What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco. Good work BTW!
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
I’m 4 days into a cold turkey - during the days it’s not too bad just a mild cold but at nights it’s brutal due to restlessness - I’ve not slept for a moment for 3 days and counting so far. Just trying to hang in there and embrace the suck. Need to get this shit out of my life!
@@cristopherchouinard8414 Thanks man. I’m through it now. Barely slept for 7 days which was rough but now feel normal now and physical symptoms all gone. 👍
@@Scott-qo1eq That's great news! So stoked for you! Keep it up. What helped me stop taking Kratom was I got back into an old hobby for me it was skateboarding. Maybe try to find a old hobby you may have lost along the way
I’m on day 3 tmrw ct . It’s 7pm on on my 2nd day and I’m praying for relief more than anything.. nighttime sucks so goddamn bad. Everything smells different now too it sucks. Restlessness. Depression. You guys all know . Just playing the waiting game
Kratom addict here, to the point where im writing this from a detox center. I was om multiple extract shots a day. It made me so sick and anxiety stricken, i was going to the hospital and abusing my benzos thinking i was going through benzo withdrawl. It took me a while to realize that its the kratom. Im wo happy that i checked myself in, going on day 5 kratom clean. Can finally wake up without sweats and panic/vomiting. Already feel happier about my life and more upbeat and motivated. I couldnt do it on my own, anyone seeking help... Do not be embarassed, the detox centers will understand. This stuff has been out for a while, they know how to treat it.
Kratom is the only thing I’ve ever gone to “rehab” for. Had years of experience with speed, alcohols and opiates prior, with no issues coming off. I was embarrassed and felt crazy for the longest time.
I took Kratom for about 4 years, was up to about 16 -20 grams a day. It was making my life worse at that point. Less motivated, foggy, lower libido. I started tapering last summer. I'm now at 1 gram a day in 2 , 1/2 doses and feel incredible. I'm almost ready to stop altogether. I have had almost no withdrawal in the method I used of a large drop at first then, halved every month after. I went from 16-20 to 4, stayed there for 2 months, then to 2 for a month, now at 1 for almost 3 weeks.
Update: my last day taking any was November 20th. I've had absolutely no issues since. My life is much more productive and I enjoy things so much more. My ability to be present and productive is through the roof.
Kratom has benefited my life big big time. 3 blown discs in my lower back and a shot hip and knee. Shit has got me able to surf and skate still. So I’m happy as a bearded clam
@@jamesmeridith8875 I’m in the same boat, 58 body has took a hammering, I take 1/2 gram of green 4 times a day, makes life a lot more enjoyable without pain, 2 vertebrae sitting on top of each other with no disc left and shoulder rotator cuff pain, no more, I see a lot of folks are trying to get high, I’m addicted to the no pain, use to not be able to stand up for longer than 15 minutes, and was looking for a place to sit and possibly lay down, now I can stand for long periods of time and can do things that I did when I was younger, and no pain, and that’s with 1 capsule which is a 1/2 gram 4 times a day, not trying to get high, just trying to get out of he chronic pain, and it works for me
Not smart to do risky stuff like that just because your masking pain which is merely a symptom that you got internal damages.. better to smoke some weed and chill on couch
I’ve been sober from alcohol for 6 years but have been using kratom in some form or fashion throughout. I’m currently in the process of checking myself into rehab for the second time after years of abuse. You described my story to T! Can’t thank you guys enough for your candor and bringing awareness as the shame and withdrawal are so real. Been in denial for years but this episode was the nudge I needed to finally seek help 🙏
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
@@Ctpg93 Of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s good. It’s fine every once in a while, but the problem is that most people make it a daily habit, which you wind up needing just to feel “normal.”
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
@@jodo1971 I just got into kratom. I'ts day 4 and I'm taking roughly 6 grams daily. Is that too much, and would it be ok if I keep it at this level ? Hoping to get a job and take this to work with me for energy and anxiety reasons. Any thoughts or tips would be helpful. Thanks!
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
@Vegan_Jen I just started taking Kratom. I haven’t touched heroin/fentanyl (who knows what I was really getting on the street) since Christmas. Longest time I’ve stayed away since I went to rehab once over 10 years ago. Kratom and cannabis is keeping me from being deathly ill. I’m done looking for veins and having infections all over my legs an arms.
I got strung out on kratom last year. The culture around it is unlike ANYTHING I've ever seen. It's literally a sht ton of people in denial about their addiction lobbying how harmless it is and severely attacking those who share their story of how bad it destroyed their lives . It's INSANE ! I've been addicted to every f$cking drug they tell you not to ever try and I've NEVER seen anything like it! I don't think anyone should be able to tell us what we can or can't put into our own body. I do think it should be illegal to package an opiate in cartoon pink hippo packaging with absolutely no warning labels saying that it's EXTREMELY addictive and dangerous. It's INSANE! Thank you so much for sharing this message!
@@Starr_unlimited Absolutely 💯% on point! I’m a year sober from a 2 year Kratom addiction, I feel for anyone who has gone through full opiate withdrawal because the Kratom WDs I went through were complete hell!
I've been on kratom for 5 years and i have two kids now. Kratom has made me feel completely numb through it all. I want to quit but I just can't.m for some reason. I need to get professional help
@@RalphCastelli I have 2 year old girl, she will be 3 in February. I have been on kratom 20% extract for past 4 years. I take 230mg 5 times a day…. It really depresses me because I feel I’ve wasted a genuine experience I could’ve had the last 2 years with my daughter. Kratom has made numb.. but it got me off heavy weekend drinking I had for 15 years prior…
It’s hell. It’s easier said than done, but can you go into a treatment center? Do you have health insurance? You can take a FMLA & get the treatment you deserve. I really hope you do, man. I’m sorry
I currently toss and wash kratom powder several times a day. I would love to quit some day but without Kratom, I would have unalived myself years ago. I am a recovering heroin addict who struggles with treatment resistant depression. When I left rehab the last time (for opioid addiction), my depression was crippling. I had no energy or motivation for anything. I hated the rooms of NA, and couldn’t get myself out of bed for any type of job. I have been on over 3 antidepressants that just made me feel worse. Idk why life sucks this much.
Darling you need to start fast for 3 days than eat regularly fir a week than fast again body will prepare itself it will take time stay a way from antidepressants as much as you can it took me 2 years to kick off suboxone yeah 2 crazy years I lost everything in process everything thru the time getting sober and I never took more than 1.5 mg for 3 years took me 2 years to start feeling normal
Kratom gives me relief from those me no want to live thoughts. I could stay off kratom if I wasn't so severely depressed and anxious. I don't use extract but I am getting re-hooked on the powder. I don't have anyone who could monitor my intake - that's the only way I see for me to personally not over-use it.
I was a HARDCORE heroin and meth IV user for 15 years and lost my kids and everything. My husband (also dad of my 4 kids) over dosed from fentanyl 2 years ago. That’s when I never touched it again because I was introduced to kratum. It saved my life! My kids have their mommy again! I would have ended up dying too and left my kids with NO PARENTS AT ALL had I not found kratum
That's great! But what they're saying is even though it has some good benefits like with what you were saying, it's still a dangerous and addictive drug. And I hope you don't underestimate it because of the good it did. A man can help you out of a hole just to push you right off a cliff, ya know?
@@Vegan_Jen now time to quit the kratom. Don’t fool yourself, it will keep the door open for your opioid and H addictions. You’re still loading up your opioid receptors with kratom. I just celebrated 30 days kratom free and I feel amazing
This was a fantastic podcast. I was an extremely heavy user for 6 years, and I am proud to say that I am just over 2 years sober from the green sludge. I want everyone in this thread to know that it's possible to quit, no matter how deep you are. I got to the point where my digestive and endocrine systems were completely decimated, and I quit cold turkey with the help of the quittingkratom community on Reddit. Lots of strong people on there with great advice. Much love to anyone struggling out there, your future self will thank you if you taper and quit!
On it 5 yrs almost 4 times a day at 11-12 gram doses and its a bitch. Full on opiate withdrawals im constantly bouncing back n forth between k powder and suboxones. Also can't afford insurance so I have to buy the subs on the street. Crazy shit is I and my bm started takin it after a near fatal car accident she was in n I found it as a natural way to combat pain instead of getting hooked on pain pills smh. Was a great substance for what I thought was sobriety for the first few yrs now it doesn't even work long anymore and it's only used to no withdrawal. It's hell
Took it for weeks at a time as a weight loss supplement, to curve appetite. Dont be a junkie and you’re fine….. I’ve actually struggled before, if you can’t deal with kratom that’s on you….
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
Jason, we talked about Kratom after I made A Leaf of Faith. Since then I’ve learned so much about Kratom that wasn’t appearing in the science at the time. I’d love to come talk to you again anytime. At that time in 2017 the extracts weren’t really around. Now the business is out of control.
The 7 Oz are 14 times stronger than opiate pain killers and they run about 5 to 10 bucks a chewable tablet. My local smoke shop has daily case delivery because they can't keep them on the shelves. I tried one and couldn't believe it was like a Oxy or Perc
@IhaveTheKrabbyPattyForumla that is a problem people abusing extracts seeking a high. I been taking kratom 6.5yrs I was on 300mg of oxycodone for 25yrs and was cut off like millions of other pain patients. If someone has not addressed their addiction issue then they can get addicted to alot of things.i have never felt the need to abuse kratom. Also kratom if u take to much u will puke and it make u feel horrible but u will not die.i have tried to take alot of kratom to see what would happen and I puked.but people are buying these extract seeking a High like drugs and u cannot get high on pure kratom. I have tried the extract also they gave me some energy is all.nothing compared to pills.
About to go through kratom withdrawal again after work tomorrow night - I'm gonna kick tomorrow... Really been struggling with this. I'll suffer through 4,5,8,12 days and crack. Accepting I'm going to have to suffer for awhile. Got off suboxone almost a year ago as I've struggled with addiction - now it's the final frontier, kratom. Need warrior strength for this.
@@outtosea25 same with Suboxone ,I've been on it for 10 yrs then I heard of Kratom so I got the pills at first then I went to the loose powder. Then I didn't have it for a day or two ,it felt like Suboxone and opiate withdrawal x10.........I need some of your will power. Keep your head up. ❤
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
I've taken Kratom off and on for a few years, I was on opiates for 3 years after back surgery. I got off of those in 2019, but I never had an issue at all until a few weeks ago. I tried a red kratom, and it felt like I had taken opiates. I had never in the 4ish years of taking kratom felt that. I started taking kratom all day to get that feeling again. I travel during the week for work and ran out, felt absolutely terrible for two days, couldn't sleep at all because of restless leg, got a huge bag of capsules and felt fine again. My wife is also a recovering addict and I can't tell her what I'm going through, I don't know how to quit and I just don't want to be here anymore. I wish my brain didn't work like this, It's so much harder dealing with this by myself in a different hotel every night. I'm trying to cut back, but I feel like garbage and don't have the willpower. I don't ever comment on RUclips. I just don't have anybody to talk to and wanted to get this out somewhere.
@@mcnorris40 Sorry to hear about this struggle. Given that your wife is a former addict, she probably would be stoked if you reach out to her & open up to her about what you’re going through vs her possibly finding out some other way. She’s been in your shoes and can empathize & can be there for you. Have you tried Magnesium Glycinate for restless legs? Hang in there!!
@@mcnorris40 yo homie - I feel that pain. You will suffer as you quit, but that suffering doesn't last long. if you can find the strength, which you Definitely can (sounds like you've done it before!), just know that the suffering goes away after a few days or a week and then you're free. honestly, as shitty as it sounds, it might be best to tell your girl that you slipped up. there's a lot of misinfo about kratom and it's human to have made a mistake. having someone close to you that knows what's going on and can hold you responsible saved my life and helped me through the suffering.
@@mcnorris40 listen bro! You can do this! What worked for me was working out. Well plus a lil bit of prison. Lol. Don’t ever give up bro! Promise you it gets easier. Buckle down
Nah, its not that bad just dont take over 20 grams a day and you wont withdrawl. Also, you can die from kratom withdrawl just benzos and alcohol so its def safer than both of those.
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
Yeah, that's how I would use it for the first couple years & I never had issues. When I first went 2+ months without any real break, I felt withdrawals. But the past 3+ yrs I haven't taken any breaks & it's an addiction. I'm not sure how much I use, it varies btwn 20-40 grams of powder a day? It's not too much but if I run out, I get sick within a day. It's annoying because I'm just maintaining a habit now & getting nothing out of this.
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it. I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
@@vic9307 I was drinking tea from a kava bar this last time, but it was the strongest I could find… 3 large teas a day, which if I had to guess were about 10 grams each - So somewhere around 30 grams.
That’s probably you or your just weaker, I have been using it 10 years from a horrible opioid addiction, my blood work is perfect my liver is perfect, and I take week breaks all the time with no issues, the withdrawals are no where close to that of opioids. It’s all a mental game
Bunch of deniers lol. Anyways kudos to you. I just had to quit after 5 years of use, 10g a day 4-5 times a days @ 2g each. I run 500+ miles a year, have 6 kids, run half of a business and i i had every excuse to advocate for this shit. Any one 8yrs plus doing this shit is the real weak minded individuals because it now controls you and you all cant quit. Anyways, had an extreme scare with my digestive system, liver and kidneys, all related to kratom. I eat healthy, exercise and even compete, and I'll say this; the last 2 years my running has gotten slower and slower, and my weight kept shooting up. I have changed nothing except increasing my mileage, yet I packed on 40lbs of backed up smudged because kratom was coating and clogging my digestive system. My kidneys started to not filter correctly and my liver was in sooo much pain... 7 days off, the withdrawals are the worst I've ever experienced BUT GUESS WHAT? My liver and kidneys do not hurt anymore. I've dropped 5 lbs in 7 days and digestive system is starting to fire properly
I started with the Feel Free shots, then discovered 7-0H. I found both to be super addicitve, but the 7-OH shots are straight up evil. I can't seem to stop for more than a few days and I'm on f-ing sublocade. The amount of money I'm spending on these things is crazy. I'm all for freedom of choice, but it's wild that you can just walk into a smoke shop or a gas station and buy these things. 7-OH is legit like morphine in a bottle.
I have been taking kratom since 2016 for severe RLS it got to a point that i was taking 5 grams of powder(never extracts) every 3 hours so i decided to taper down bit by bit. I used measuring spoons. I am now down to taking less than 1 gram if powder 2 times a day. My RLS is much better and i'm confident i will be able to quit in the near future. The withdraws are slightly annoying but no worse than a mild flu.
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago. I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
i have had restless legs since i was a teenager, when i was 44 my legs got so bad i could not sleep, i was going crazy flopping around beating on my calf muscles. I tried magnesium, cutting sugar, caffein, everything thing i read that said worked, i tried, nothing worked, then i heard about kratom, i tried a little bit and my legs relaxed and it was so sweet. It has been ten years now and i still get restless legs if i dont use kratom about every 2 or 3 hours. I only do 2 to 3 teaspoons at a time in a cup of water. I would ween off but my legs go crazy, so i dont know what to do. I am carnivore now, i dont eat any sugar or carbs and i do electrolites, i dont know what else to do for restless legs.
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
😂😂😂 Yep I'm in a crap load of pain and I make a double cup of coffee and mix 10g once a day smoke weed @ night of medical THC levels 36% I just feel thats better than 4 percs a day from pain management.. I don't see a true addiction could be achieved from 10g 1 x a day 24 hrs apart ... I do get the addictive personality for sure .. been there done that . Lived n learned Good luck peeps you can do all things through Christ that strengthens you
I can relate to this so much and it makes me feel better to know I'm not alone. I'm 37 yrs old started using drugs at age 12 with weed and alcohol. Eventually ended up trying every drug in the book. Ended up becoming addicted to multiple drugs but my favorites were ketamine, heroin and cocaine. I had a heroin overdose in 2021 and knew this was no longer sustainable and I was gonna die if I didn't stop. I didn't want to go thru withdrawal and I knew about kratom and had tried it a few times thruought the years and I thought well it's better than heroin and prob won't kill me so I'll just do kratom instead and I'll quit all hard drugs and do kratom and weed and that's it. A year later i decided to quit kratom I knew I'd go thru withdrawal but I thought it would last 7 days like heroin. I started freaking out when weeks went by and I still felt like shit. I couldn't take it anymore and got on suboxone I stayed on for a year and a half but I was paying out of pocket and couldn't afford it anymore. So I tried to taper off. Long story short I failed and I'm back on kratom again. I do feel like I'm better off on kratom than heroin. Kratom and pot is Def more manageable and I'm more functional than when I was on harder substances. I wish I had the time available to sweat it out at home. I know if I didn't have to go to work everyday throughout the withdrawal period I prob could get through this but I can't take off enough time to get thru it so I'm kind of trapped. I can't afford to lose this job. I've worked it for 10 years and I'm a two time loser I've been to prison twice I don't know when I'd get another job if I got fired. Honestly I'm better off being on kratom than I would be if I got fired
@Jr42087 just try to always take a little less every couple days and then when you know you will have a hard day take a little more and it will have a strong effect. I take five grams a day then when I want to party I'll take 8. I used to drink 60 gs per day and then weaned down to 5 slowly. Good luck.
20 years addicted to Kratom on and off. I withdrew from Vicodin and that's why I started with Kratom and it turned into a 2 decade addiction. I am currently in therapy and group meetings. I'm 60 years old and however long I live I want to do it sober. I needed to see this today because it is my first day of cold turkey after dropping down my dose. I took more kratom capsules then I could count some days. Thank you for this important video.
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution. Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
What an absolute insane experiance guys... Im starting my taper today. Only like 12GPD powder but I will never complain about my withdraw symptoms again after hearing yours.. Amazing guys. Thank you for speaking out about these things!
I didn't know I was addicted to it till I broke my leg and couldn't go to the store. The withdrawals were insane! I had no idea that stuff would do that! It was worse than my leg injury. So glad I'm off the stuff. Anyone who's on it, please slowly get off it. It's rough but you can do it
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
Thank you for this interview. Just to report, I never had a problem with kratom leaf in capsules. The first time I took a little bottle of extract, I wanted more and more. Luckily I haven't taken more than two in one day, but I was on the way to taking more before watching this video. Had an urge to take more and realized that this was an addictive impulse. Went looking for info and found this. Addictiveness confirmed. And I have to back up what one of you said; that the extract is what has made this dangerous for me, personally. I cannot take it because I am not strong enough to do it responsibly...
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now. I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 if u took the 7 hydro extracts like 7ohmz tablets you wont get dizzy. this stuff is a whole new ballgame. u have been warned.
This episode really hit home for me. I am en route to alcohol and drug addiction treatment in a week. I have been on the typical route of being a former HEAVY opiate addict, got clean and used kratom to curb the withdrawal symptoms. I sit here 5 years later, still off of opiates, yet 100% addicted to kratom, using a dangerous amount for 5 years, alongside of drinking a minimum of 10 tall boys a day, maximum of 40oz liquor. Kratom is dangerous for people like us, very dangerous. It's marketed like the miracle substance, yet it's the same ol game. I go in for treatment for kratom and alcohol next week, if you wanted to have a conversation about this feel free to respond to this post and I can stay in the loop during the process. You're an inspiration homie, thank you for your honesty
lets try to advocate for whole leaf material. out with the liquid extracts, 7oh tablets and all the other adulterated products. and also set up tapering guidelines and remind ppl that breaks are essential... its never what your doing its how your doing it
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often? I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
Ex heroin addict. Iv been on kratom since 2016, and i take 2 tablespoons a day one in the morning and one at night . And iv never upped my dose in that time. So this podcast is very interesting to me…. Even my source that i get my kilos from says it rare that he sells to someone that has maintained the same dosage for that amount of time.
Feel free is kratom and kava.. kava is relatively harmless and feel free doesn't have a crazy amount of kratom so people must be really overdoing it to be addicted. The withdrawal from those would just be a headache and boredom.
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that. I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise. I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart. Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors. Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal. Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Took it for a few years (powder at gas station in green/white bag mixed with soft drink or tea) then started having digestive problems stopped then had diarrhea every day for TWO MONTHS. Finally got better.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
All substances can become an addiction. Knowledge of the effects of that addiction are important. Abusing just about anything can become an addiction. Moderation is obviously a key element in controlling one’s compulsions and therefore addictions. Be kind to your fellow man as well as yourself. 🙂
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
I am a 68 yr woman and I am addicted to Kratom. Working on a quit plan with my family. Just told my boyfriend I'm addicted and he seems to think it's no big deal to quit. It has been about 6 straight years and I am a little nervous to face it, the quitting that is. I have so much to say about it. Another time
Seems like the extracts are what’s causing the problems for people. I was on the pills daily for years. When I quit cold turkey I didn’t have any of the symptoms like described here
I used to do pills and drank alot but got off the pills. Got a better job but still drank pretty heavy on my off nights. And i wanted to keep drinking. I came across kratom and it made me not want to drink. I only ever took powder not the concentrates. Now people are saying its worse but im trying to find out if its only people who take a bunch or concentrates. I like to think the 6 grams i take once ir twice a week is better but these stories make me feel like im lying to myself.
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
This year I am 40 years drug free. I won't tell you it's easy, I won't tell you that won't relapse, but I can tell you that it is 100% worth it. The key is to get into therapy, and find out WHY you feel the need to not feel things. When you can face your demons, the demons can't chase after you anymore.
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom” Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more. Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people. Kratom saves lives.
@hunkerdown Nah dude…. There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to qutting kratom. A lot of those people are addicted to powder. 30g, 50g, 70g a day habits, those addictions are brutal. Not to mention powder and full spectrum extracts (which feel free would fall into) have TONS of alkaloids in addition to just mitragyne, which makes withdrawal agruably worse. It’s one thing if you have a scale and weigh out 5g’s 2-3 times a week, but you absolutely can become super dependent to powder….don’t kid yourself.
@ IMO, 30-70g a day is a lot! But hey, everyone is different. I think people underestimate the power of “less is more” with Kratom. I used to use a scale but now I can use a teaspoon to measure out 2g. I only consume 2g, 2 or 3x day, depending on my pain level. I have consumed all kinds of Kratom from powder & loose leaf to different kinds of extracts. I have noticed that when I consume extracts that have a higher amount of 7oH vs full spectrum, it throws off my regular powder intake and the powder isn’t as effective, essentially messing with my tolerance level to regular powder. I do believe there are people dependent on Kratom, for sure. Addicted seems like a strong term for regular powder.
I don't know what extracts are equal to, but I was doing about 30 grams a day for over a year, but I've been off and on for 5 or more years, it's definitely not easy to quit, this is my 3rd round of going back to it and quitting. The bad part is it's so cheap where I live, it's only $24 for 8oz here in Florida and the smoke shop is literally walking distance from my house.. I currently have over 60, 8oz bags that I never threw away that have a little still in them. Kratom plants itself into your life, to where you live around kratom, before bed, when you get up, while working etc, this is what makes it so hard to quit, I'm on day 3 currently and hopefully this is my last time quitting, it gets harder every time you relapse. Good luck everybody trying to quit, it's not impossible, you got this.
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from. Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted? It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills. Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression. nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time. Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
Listen to the podcast. What they are describing is more akin to a heroin withdrawal than what you would expect from a Kratom product and nobody’s talking about it. Fevers, chills, sweating, spasming, nausea, diarrhea, etc.
... This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
I take a few caps of Malaysian white with a couple cups of coffee as my pre workout before lifting. Never understood the kratom-opioid connection- to me it feels much more like a caffeine or yohimbine type of stimulant, never noticed anything opiate about it at all. In fact Kratom is in the same family as the coffee plant and from my understanding primarily hits the noradranergic receptors like typical stimulants would. The binding at the u opiod receptors is extremely low except the hydroxy metabolite. Maybe it's different for different people depending on your cytochrome expression and how you metabolize it.
if you cant lay your head down at night knowing that you did everything with in your means to be a proper human being,then you're depriving yourself of one the best parts of our human experience. When you're able to be fully transparent, when you're finally able to comprehend understand the meaning of life and what your role in it will be. Then Being honest about your personal experience with something and sharing what you've learned is the best thing you could do. I loved this!!
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down. I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture. She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
So I’ve been in Kratom for 2 years every single day. Not extracts but just the powder inside capsules “pills” I’d take 5 to 6 caps every 3 or 4 hours from wake till sleep. Over the last month over slowly weaned down every 3 hours I’d take one less capsule. I now go all day working and I got to the gym and lift with cardio and I have none all day till I’m about to go to sleep. I only take 4 before bed and I’ve not had any withdrawal at all so far. Afraid to not take it before bed because I feel I won’t sleep without it. I’ve quit oxycodone a few times after months and years of abuse and it was absolute hell!
I’ve been a drug addict my entire life, I’m 37. My story is so similar to Jason’s as far as drug use. Alcohol Xanax Cocaine Crack Meth Heroin all of it. Acid mushrooms ecstasy ketamine weed pills etc. My last addiction was Kratom, 3 years on, 1 year clean from it. This is by far the best depiction of its issues I’ve come across. Kratom was terrible for me personally and my mind is now clear and free from that garbage sludge.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
I agree. I tell people to stay away from kratom for the most part, but this isn’t the most nuanced discussion about it and they’re by no means kratom experts. I think People have trouble with the kratom conversation because it is the definition of shade of grey. Helpful for some people, destructive for others. I know people who use feel free totally responsibly and have zero issues with it, and I know people (including myself) that struggle with an addiction to it. It’s just an interesting topic in that regard. But believe me, there are A LOT of substances out there that are way worse than kratom, and that doesn’t mean I think kratom is a good thing. Once again, shade of grey.
I’ve been taking Kratom powder daily for 8 years. I’ll stop for a week at a time every few months, and I’ve never experienced any of these symptoms. If it were really bad for the body, I would quit. But my personal experience just doesn’t show that. Not sure what to think about the whole situation
I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day.
7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Agmatine is sold as a pre-workout supplement and it helps with opioid withdrawal. It's not magic but it helps a little bit.
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well.
I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted!
I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled.
Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago.
Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
look for a recovery group in your area…be good to yourself…you’re not alone.
You got this friend
I'm an addict and like most addicts I need to be addicted to something.
I recommend everyone quit all the drugs and chemicals and get addicted to a sport. Any sport, doesn't matter what it is, find what you enjoy and gives you a smile and get addicted to it
This is great advice.
@@VeloVios get addicted to The Holy Spirit.
Brilliant.
Golf saved my life.
I took up piano
STAY AWAY FROM EXTRACTS!!!
So important. Lose kratom does not let me abuse it, its physically impossible essentially. Get sweaty and vomit any time ive tried loll
@ Facts. That’s whole-leaf powders built-in safety mechanism
What's the difference
@@DrMatthewHudson extracts are concentrated version of powder. Put simply, beer vs moonshine.
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
6:09
I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight.
I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor.
In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day.
Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years.
I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom.
I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression.
Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
love to hear it
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
@@thateabishhh discount code?
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years.
I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc.
I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate.
Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
Agreed . I backed myself back from way to much. I definitely wouldn’t go cold turkey that’s crazy.
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
@thedude130 if you hit a roadblock don't go over what your taking at the time. I needed to stay at a dose for a few days bc it got too intense.
I’ve quit 4 times so far. Tells you how easy it is to taper off and restart lol addict moves
@@billsny9243 just give yourself grace it’s easy for everyone to taper. This stuff is no joke.
Watching this as I’m on day 4 without Kratom. 8 years straight. Never took a break, never even tried to stop. And I finally made the decision that I don’t want this substance in my life anymore. On Suboxone from the doctor for 2 weeks to help withdrawal symptoms. Needed this reminder as to why I can’t ever go back to Kratom.
Did this shit for 3 years daily now. 2 extracts a day. 72 hours clean right this moment and I’m not going back. My withdrawals have only been some tossing and turning / restless legs at night but it’s getting better. Prayers for everyone, you CAN get off this crap
1 month since u commented, how are you now?
Addictions, people with addictions have dealt with a lot within their youth, growing up, the trauma has rewired our brains for self destruction for life where there’s a constant battle within the head. Much respect to ones who deal with addictions who are battling with being sober. Much love and strength 🙌🙏
I recently fell off after being sober for over ten months. I cracked and now hard time stopping again. I haven’t been sober since my teens.
@@ctk381 you got this man , you’ll be back in no time 🙏🏾
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah!
Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit.
What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco.
Good work BTW!
I'm in same boat. My stomach hurts from all the capsules I take. My joints kill if I don't take it
@@sallieharer9407Do you have somebody you can confide in??
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
@@nicholaskoenig3106 thanks bro! Keep it up the good work .
s/o Jason for being honest about his addiction, you’re literally saving lives…
I’m 4 days into a cold turkey - during the days it’s not too bad just a mild cold but at nights it’s brutal due to restlessness - I’ve not slept for a moment for 3 days and counting so far. Just trying to hang in there and embrace the suck. Need to get this shit out of my life!
Try cbd with thc
Hang in there dude! You got this
@@cristopherchouinard8414 Thanks man. I’m through it now. Barely slept for 7 days which was rough but now feel normal now and physical symptoms all gone. 👍
@@Scott-qo1eq That's great news! So stoked for you! Keep it up. What helped me stop taking Kratom was I got back into an old hobby for me it was skateboarding. Maybe try to find a old hobby you may have lost along the way
I’m on day 3 tmrw ct . It’s 7pm on on my 2nd day and I’m praying for relief more than anything.. nighttime sucks so goddamn bad. Everything smells different now too it sucks. Restlessness. Depression. You guys all know . Just playing the waiting game
Kratom addict here, to the point where im writing this from a detox center. I was om multiple extract shots a day. It made me so sick and anxiety stricken, i was going to the hospital and abusing my benzos thinking i was going through benzo withdrawl. It took me a while to realize that its the kratom. Im wo happy that i checked myself in, going on day 5 kratom clean. Can finally wake up without sweats and panic/vomiting. Already feel happier about my life and more upbeat and motivated. I couldnt do it on my own, anyone seeking help... Do not be embarassed, the detox centers will understand. This stuff has been out for a while, they know how to treat it.
Did you experience shortness of breath and severe anxiety while on feel free ?
Also what did they medicate you with in detox ?
Kratom is the only thing I’ve ever gone to “rehab” for. Had years of experience with speed, alcohols and opiates prior, with no issues coming off. I was embarrassed and felt crazy for the longest time.
I took Kratom for about 4 years, was up to about 16 -20 grams a day. It was making my life worse at that point. Less motivated, foggy, lower libido. I started tapering last summer. I'm now at 1 gram a day in 2 , 1/2 doses and feel incredible. I'm almost ready to stop altogether. I have had almost no withdrawal in the method I used of a large drop at first then, halved every month after. I went from 16-20 to 4, stayed there for 2 months, then to 2 for a month, now at 1 for almost 3 weeks.
Update: my last day taking any was November 20th. I've had absolutely no issues since. My life is much more productive and I enjoy things so much more. My ability to be present and productive is through the roof.
Amazing man ! Congrats
Kratom has benefited my life big big time. 3 blown discs in my lower back and a shot hip and knee. Shit has got me able to surf and skate still. So I’m happy as a bearded clam
@@jamesmeridith8875 heck ya bro. Awesome.. Way better than Big Pharma crap
@@jamesmeridith8875 I’m in the same boat, 58 body has took a hammering, I take 1/2 gram of green 4 times a day, makes life a lot more enjoyable without pain, 2 vertebrae sitting on top of each other with no disc left and shoulder rotator cuff pain, no more, I see a lot of folks are trying to get high, I’m addicted to the no pain, use to not be able to stand up for longer than 15 minutes, and was looking for a place to sit and possibly lay down, now I can stand for long periods of time and can do things that I did when I was younger, and no pain, and that’s with 1 capsule which is a 1/2 gram 4 times a day, not trying to get high, just trying to get out of he chronic pain, and it works for me
I think you enjoy Kanna better.
Kratom has such a dark side.
Not smart to do risky stuff like that just because your masking pain which is merely a symptom that you got internal damages.. better to smoke some weed and chill on couch
I’ve been sober from alcohol for 6 years but have been using kratom in some form or fashion throughout. I’m currently in the process of checking myself into rehab for the second time after years of abuse. You described my story to T! Can’t thank you guys enough for your candor and bringing awareness as the shame and withdrawal are so real. Been in denial for years but this episode was the nudge I needed to finally seek help 🙏
@@jakeH2 how is rehab? Did they give you subs? I just started detox 3 days ago.
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
Is it not better than potentially getting aids from dirty needles?
@@Ctpg93Don't be retarded. The point is to get shit into control.
Congrats so glad kratom helped you.
@@Ctpg93 Of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s good. It’s fine every once in a while, but the problem is that most people make it a daily habit, which you wind up needing just to feel “normal.”
The lying to oneself... "At least I'm not slamming dope"... Easy to rationalize kratom addiction until it isn't.
People saying the leaves are not addictive are wrong. For some they are. I used to only buy fresh leaves, fresh off the tree, and i still got hooked.
They are def addictive, lol. i have horrible withdraw from it.
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
@@jodo1971 I just got into kratom. I'ts day 4 and I'm taking roughly 6 grams daily. Is that too much, and would it be ok if I keep it at this level ? Hoping to get a job and take this to work with me for energy and anxiety reasons. Any thoughts or tips would be helpful. Thanks!
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
Sounds like a job for RFK Jr. Scary stuff, glad you're all ok to talk about the issue🙏💪
I take the capsules. Full handful like 16, 3 or 4 times a day. No one knows.
@@sallieharer9407 even the powder and capsules are super addictive. I was addicted to leaf powder before I started extracts. It’s a helluva drug.
@@Reegs44r1 I hope he does ban it so I can stop
@@sallieharer9407I'm doing the same thing, and the extracts too. They are so expensive. I'm ashamed of myself.
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
Kratom saved my life. I got all 4 of my kids back, and I no longer am locked in my bathroom digging for a vein because of kratum!
@Vegan_Jen I just started taking Kratom. I haven’t touched heroin/fentanyl (who knows what I was really getting on the street) since Christmas. Longest time I’ve stayed away since I went to rehab once over 10 years ago. Kratom and cannabis is keeping me from being deathly ill. I’m done looking for veins and having infections all over my legs an arms.
I got strung out on kratom last year. The culture around it is unlike ANYTHING I've ever seen.
It's literally a sht ton of people in denial about their addiction lobbying how harmless it is and severely attacking those who share their story of how bad it destroyed their lives .
It's INSANE !
I've been addicted to every f$cking drug they tell you not to ever try and I've NEVER seen anything like it!
I don't think anyone should be able to tell us what we can or can't put into our own body.
I do think it should be illegal to package an opiate in cartoon pink hippo packaging with absolutely no warning labels saying that it's EXTREMELY addictive and dangerous.
It's INSANE!
Thank you so much for sharing this message!
💯💯💯
@@Starr_unlimited Absolutely 💯% on point! I’m a year sober from a 2 year Kratom addiction, I feel for anyone who has gone through full opiate withdrawal because the Kratom WDs I went through were complete hell!
A video could be made saying the same things about caffeine as they are about kratom
@@johnr4836 caffeine and opiates are two very different addictive substances
Never seen anything like it? Never seen alcohol or nicotine either? Most addicts are in denial.
I've been on kratom for 5 years and i have two kids now. Kratom has made me feel completely numb through it all. I want to quit but I just can't.m for some reason. I need to get professional help
@@RalphCastelli I have 2 year old girl, she will be 3 in February. I have been on kratom 20% extract for past 4 years. I take 230mg 5 times a day…. It really depresses me because I feel I’ve wasted a genuine experience I could’ve had the last 2 years with my daughter. Kratom has made numb.. but it got me off heavy weekend drinking I had for 15 years prior…
It’s hell. It’s easier said than done, but can you go into a treatment center? Do you have health insurance? You can take a FMLA & get the treatment you deserve. I really hope you do, man. I’m sorry
You CAN quit. Just do it man
@ lol some people have important jobs & don’t have time to wd for weeks. You dumb
i have one gram probably, it will be my last, i'm not going into 2025 addicted.
I currently toss and wash kratom powder several times a day. I would love to quit some day but without Kratom, I would have unalived myself years ago. I am a recovering heroin addict who struggles with treatment resistant depression. When I left rehab the last time (for opioid addiction), my depression was crippling. I had no energy or motivation for anything. I hated the rooms of NA, and couldn’t get myself out of bed for any type of job. I have been on over 3 antidepressants that just made me feel worse. Idk why life sucks this much.
Darling you need to start fast for 3 days than eat regularly fir a week than fast again body will prepare itself it will take time stay a way from antidepressants as much as you can it took me 2 years to kick off suboxone yeah 2 crazy years I lost everything in process everything thru the time getting sober and I never took more than 1.5 mg for 3 years took me 2 years to start feeling normal
@@Honeydragonsalt1727 false info re ssris
Kratom gives me relief from those me no want to live thoughts. I could stay off kratom if I wasn't so severely depressed and anxious. I don't use extract but I am getting re-hooked on the powder. I don't have anyone who could monitor my intake - that's the only way I see for me to personally not over-use it.
This is the best discussion on this topic to date
I was a HARDCORE heroin and meth IV user for 15 years and lost my kids and everything. My husband (also dad of my 4 kids) over dosed from fentanyl 2 years ago. That’s when I never touched it again because I was introduced to kratum. It saved my life! My kids have their mommy again! I would have ended up dying too and left my kids with NO PARENTS AT ALL had I not found kratum
That's great! But what they're saying is even though it has some good benefits like with what you were saying, it's still a dangerous and addictive drug. And I hope you don't underestimate it because of the good it did. A man can help you out of a hole just to push you right off a cliff, ya know?
@@Vegan_Jen congratulation! What a turn around! #kratomsaveslives
Your liver and kidneys are turning to mush. Enjoy
Some people can use the powder responsibly. However not everyone. And especially not the shots and concentrates.
@@Vegan_Jen now time to quit the kratom. Don’t fool yourself, it will keep the door open for your opioid and H addictions. You’re still loading up your opioid receptors with kratom. I just celebrated 30 days kratom free and I feel amazing
This was a fantastic podcast. I was an extremely heavy user for 6 years, and I am proud to say that I am just over 2 years sober from the green sludge. I want everyone in this thread to know that it's possible to quit, no matter how deep you are. I got to the point where my digestive and endocrine systems were completely decimated, and I quit cold turkey with the help of the quittingkratom community on Reddit. Lots of strong people on there with great advice. Much love to anyone struggling out there, your future self will thank you if you taper and quit!
People that say the powder isn’t addictive don’t know wtf they’re talking about
only if you boof it.
@cheepchicken lol yeah man i was going through two 8oz packs a week, it got pretty bad. Felt just like i was withdrawing from heroin
@@cheepchicken i agree I'm addicted to the power for 7 years now
On it 5 yrs almost 4 times a day at 11-12 gram doses and its a bitch. Full on opiate withdrawals im constantly bouncing back n forth between k powder and suboxones. Also can't afford insurance so I have to buy the subs on the street. Crazy shit is I and my bm started takin it after a near fatal car accident she was in n I found it as a natural way to combat pain instead of getting hooked on pain pills smh. Was a great substance for what I thought was sobriety for the first few yrs now it doesn't even work long anymore and it's only used to no withdrawal. It's hell
Took it for weeks at a time as a weight loss supplement, to curve appetite. Dont be a junkie and you’re fine….. I’ve actually struggled before, if you can’t deal with kratom that’s on you….
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
Jason, we talked about Kratom after I made A Leaf of Faith. Since then I’ve learned so much about Kratom that wasn’t appearing in the science at the time. I’d love to come talk to you again anytime. At that time in 2017 the extracts weren’t really around. Now the business is out of control.
The 7 Oz are 14 times stronger than opiate pain killers and they run about 5 to 10 bucks a chewable tablet. My local smoke shop has daily case delivery because they can't keep them on the shelves. I tried one and couldn't believe it was like a Oxy or Perc
@IhaveTheKrabbyPattyForumla that is a problem people abusing extracts seeking a high. I been taking kratom 6.5yrs I was on 300mg of oxycodone for 25yrs and was cut off like millions of other pain patients. If someone has not addressed their addiction issue then they can get addicted to alot of things.i have never felt the need to abuse kratom. Also kratom if u take to much u will puke and it make u feel horrible but u will not die.i have tried to take alot of kratom to see what would happen and I puked.but people are buying these extract seeking a High like drugs and u cannot get high on pure kratom. I have tried the extract also they gave me some energy is all.nothing compared to pills.
@@IhaveTheKrabbyPattyForumla the Opia ones are $20 for a 4 pack and they’re the strongest. I only need 1-2 a day
@chrisbell8414 I’d love to chat w you about it. Where is the best place to contact you?
I hope you make it back on Chris!
About to go through kratom withdrawal again after work tomorrow night - I'm gonna kick tomorrow... Really been struggling with this. I'll suffer through 4,5,8,12 days and crack. Accepting I'm going to have to suffer for awhile. Got off suboxone almost a year ago as I've struggled with addiction - now it's the final frontier, kratom. Need warrior strength for this.
@@outtosea25 same with Suboxone ,I've been on it for 10 yrs then I heard of Kratom so I got the pills at first then I went to the loose powder. Then I didn't have it for a day or two ,it felt like Suboxone and opiate withdrawal x10.........I need some of your will power. Keep your head up. ❤
@@outtosea25 how did the withdrawal go?
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
We got this. I’m in the same boat but getting there
@ yeah man! Stay positive!
Bros shits are probably hard as cement no homo
Proud of ya. I’m to 9.5 on my taper from a zip a day. Let’s go homie 😊
@ F yeah!
I've taken Kratom off and on for a few years, I was on opiates for 3 years after back surgery. I got off of those in 2019, but I never had an issue at all until a few weeks ago. I tried a red kratom, and it felt like I had taken opiates. I had never in the 4ish years of taking kratom felt that. I started taking kratom all day to get that feeling again. I travel during the week for work and ran out, felt absolutely terrible for two days, couldn't sleep at all because of restless leg, got a huge bag of capsules and felt fine again. My wife is also a recovering addict and I can't tell her what I'm going through, I don't know how to quit and I just don't want to be here anymore. I wish my brain didn't work like this, It's so much harder dealing with this by myself in a different hotel every night. I'm trying to cut back, but I feel like garbage and don't have the willpower. I don't ever comment on RUclips. I just don't have anybody to talk to and wanted to get this out somewhere.
@@mcnorris40 Sorry to hear about this struggle. Given that your wife is a former addict, she probably would be stoked if you reach out to her & open up to her about what you’re going through vs her possibly finding out some other way. She’s been in your shoes and can empathize & can be there for you.
Have you tried Magnesium Glycinate for restless legs?
Hang in there!!
I used God. Find something that's not being scared of hurting
@@mcnorris40 yo homie - I feel that pain. You will suffer as you quit, but that suffering doesn't last long. if you can find the strength, which you Definitely can (sounds like you've done it before!), just know that the suffering goes away after a few days or a week and then you're free. honestly, as shitty as it sounds, it might be best to tell your girl that you slipped up. there's a lot of misinfo about kratom and it's human to have made a mistake. having someone close to you that knows what's going on and can hold you responsible saved my life and helped me through the suffering.
And the other side of that period of shittiness is beautiful!
@@mcnorris40 listen bro! You can do this! What worked for me was working out. Well plus a lil bit of prison. Lol. Don’t ever give up bro! Promise you it gets easier. Buckle down
Here's my sign to get off this demon.
@@F3lloww go to quittingkratom subreddit. Get ready for hell but it’s temporaey
Nah, its not that bad just dont take over 20 grams a day and you wont withdrawl. Also, you can die from kratom withdrawl just benzos and alcohol so its def safer than both of those.
are you off it yet?
@@F3lloww how’s the journey mate?
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
its nothing compared to the extracts like the 7ohmz pills
Yeah, that's how I would use it for the first couple years & I never had issues. When I first went 2+ months without any real break, I felt withdrawals.
But the past 3+ yrs I haven't taken any breaks & it's an addiction. I'm not sure how much I use, it varies btwn 20-40 grams of powder a day? It's not too much but if I run out, I get sick within a day. It's annoying because I'm just maintaining a habit now & getting nothing out of this.
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it.
I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
what was your dose
@@vic9307 I was drinking tea from a kava bar this last time, but it was the strongest I could find… 3 large teas a day, which if I had to guess were about 10 grams each - So somewhere around 30 grams.
That’s probably you or your just weaker, I have been using it 10 years from a horrible opioid addiction, my blood work is perfect my liver is perfect, and I take week breaks all the time with no issues, the withdrawals are no where close to that of opioids. It’s all a mental game
Bunch of deniers lol. Anyways kudos to you. I just had to quit after 5 years of use, 10g a day 4-5 times a days @ 2g each. I run 500+ miles a year, have 6 kids, run half of a business and i i had every excuse to advocate for this shit. Any one 8yrs plus doing this shit is the real weak minded individuals because it now controls you and you all cant quit. Anyways, had an extreme scare with my digestive system, liver and kidneys, all related to kratom. I eat healthy, exercise and even compete, and I'll say this; the last 2 years my running has gotten slower and slower, and my weight kept shooting up. I have changed nothing except increasing my mileage, yet I packed on 40lbs of backed up smudged because kratom was coating and clogging my digestive system. My kidneys started to not filter correctly and my liver was in sooo much pain... 7 days off, the withdrawals are the worst I've ever experienced BUT GUESS WHAT? My liver and kidneys do not hurt anymore. I've dropped 5 lbs in 7 days and digestive system is starting to fire properly
I’m struggling man …
I started with the Feel Free shots, then discovered 7-0H. I found both to be super addicitve, but the 7-OH shots are straight up evil. I can't seem to stop for more than a few days and I'm on f-ing sublocade. The amount of money I'm spending on these things is crazy. I'm all for freedom of choice, but it's wild that you can just walk into a smoke shop or a gas station and buy these things. 7-OH is legit like morphine in a bottle.
I have been taking kratom since 2016 for severe RLS it got to a point that i was taking 5 grams of powder(never extracts) every 3 hours so i decided to taper down bit by bit. I used measuring spoons. I am now down to taking less than 1 gram if powder 2 times a day. My RLS is much better and i'm confident i will be able to quit in the near future. The withdraws are slightly annoying but no worse than a mild flu.
Keep it up that is an amazing level of discipline.
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole
Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago.
I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
No..put it all down and just eat some cbd gummies or delta 9 gummies..also no withdrawals when you wanna quit
@ I respect both plants
i have had restless legs since i was a teenager, when i was 44 my legs got so bad i could not sleep, i was going crazy flopping around beating on my calf muscles. I tried magnesium, cutting sugar, caffein, everything thing i read that said worked, i tried, nothing worked, then i heard about kratom, i tried a little bit and my legs relaxed and it was so sweet. It has been ten years now and i still get restless legs if i dont use kratom about every 2 or 3 hours. I only do 2 to 3 teaspoons at a time in a cup of water. I would ween off but my legs go crazy, so i dont know what to do. I am carnivore now, i dont eat any sugar or carbs and i do electrolites, i dont know what else to do for restless legs.
@@truthonly7699 make your own magnesium bicarbonate
Look it up you use sparkling water
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
😂😂😂 Yep I'm in a crap load of pain and I make a double cup of coffee and mix 10g once a day smoke weed @ night of medical THC levels 36% I just feel thats better than 4 percs a day from pain management.. I don't see a true addiction could be achieved from 10g 1 x a day 24 hrs apart ... I do get the addictive personality for sure .. been there done that . Lived n learned Good luck peeps you can do all things through Christ that strengthens you
So many ppl alive today managed to pull through the early 2000s. So many of us r finally clear and it’s awesome to hear these conversations💯
I can relate to this so much and it makes me feel better to know I'm not alone. I'm 37 yrs old started using drugs at age 12 with weed and alcohol. Eventually ended up trying every drug in the book. Ended up becoming addicted to multiple drugs but my favorites were ketamine, heroin and cocaine. I had a heroin overdose in 2021 and knew this was no longer sustainable and I was gonna die if I didn't stop. I didn't want to go thru withdrawal and I knew about kratom and had tried it a few times thruought the years and I thought well it's better than heroin and prob won't kill me so I'll just do kratom instead and I'll quit all hard drugs and do kratom and weed and that's it. A year later i decided to quit kratom I knew I'd go thru withdrawal but I thought it would last 7 days like heroin. I started freaking out when weeks went by and I still felt like shit. I couldn't take it anymore and got on suboxone I stayed on for a year and a half but I was paying out of pocket and couldn't afford it anymore. So I tried to taper off. Long story short I failed and I'm back on kratom again. I do feel like I'm better off on kratom than heroin. Kratom and pot is Def more manageable and I'm more functional than when I was on harder substances. I wish I had the time available to sweat it out at home. I know if I didn't have to go to work everyday throughout the withdrawal period I prob could get through this but I can't take off enough time to get thru it so I'm kind of trapped. I can't afford to lose this job. I've worked it for 10 years and I'm a two time loser I've been to prison twice I don't know when I'd get another job if I got fired. Honestly I'm better off being on kratom than I would be if I got fired
@Jr42087 just try to always take a little less every couple days and then when you know you will have a hard day take a little more and it will have a strong effect. I take five grams a day then when I want to party I'll take 8. I used to drink 60 gs per day and then weaned down to 5 slowly. Good luck.
20 years addicted to Kratom on and off. I withdrew from Vicodin and that's why I started with Kratom and it turned into a 2 decade addiction. I am currently in therapy and group meetings. I'm 60 years old and however long I live I want to do it sober. I needed to see this today because it is my first day of cold turkey after dropping down my dose. I took more kratom capsules then I could count some days. Thank you for this important video.
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution.
Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
Kratom powder and extracts are also very different.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
Harm reduction. Just avoid extracts and shots
I heard the ad read start and thought "if there is a kratom ad, I swear to god..."
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
Jesus 600-800 dollars a week on kratom? 😮
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
Sounds more like poor life choices, take some responsibility
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
Yeah the extracts got nuts. I was spending a shit ton on them and was just chasing the tolerance
This would be so helpful if they highlighted that extracts ARE SOLD AS KRATOM BUT ARE NOT KRATOM
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 kratom pusher
@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 just a label saying this is very addictive. Not everyone knows what kratom is. This way is straightforward
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the extracts are crazy, they make you sick. Very different than taking 3 pills here and there
What are they?
What an absolute insane experiance guys... Im starting my taper today. Only like 12GPD powder but I will never complain about my withdraw symptoms again after hearing yours.. Amazing guys. Thank you for speaking out about these things!
I didn't know I was addicted to it till I broke my leg and couldn't go to the store. The withdrawals were insane! I had no idea that stuff would do that! It was worse than my leg injury. So glad I'm off the stuff. Anyone who's on it, please slowly get off it. It's rough but you can do it
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest
I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
Thank you for this interview.
Just to report, I never had a problem with kratom leaf in capsules. The first time I took a little bottle of extract, I wanted more and more. Luckily I haven't taken more than two in one day, but I was on the way to taking more before watching this video.
Had an urge to take more and realized that this was an addictive impulse. Went looking for info and found this. Addictiveness confirmed. And I have to back up what one of you said; that the extract is what has made this dangerous for me, personally. I cannot take it because I am not strong enough to do it responsibly...
The withdrawal is bad. I get rls at night if I don't take it. I just started taking for energy, and now I can't stop.
@smokenmonkeyco6201 I'm not sure. The capsules are killing my guts. I get 500 capsules and take in a week
@@sallieharer9407 its really not that hard. Dint psyche yourself out
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now.
I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
Damn. Good job dude.
Good job. The other things are even tougher than kratom
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
@@Tincanbanana3030 much harder
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
Maybe the extract is more of a problem
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the leaf can still be highly addicting
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 if u took the 7 hydro extracts like 7ohmz tablets you wont get dizzy. this stuff is a whole new ballgame. u have been warned.
I was warning Jason about this in the comments years ago, when he was pushing Kratom as a sponsor.
I get pisssed off at podcasters who promote this stuff for dollars.
Luis J Gomez has to pay for his car insurance, give him a break.
Now they have 7OH on the market. That product is the beginning of the end of Kratom being legal in the US.
This episode really hit home for me.
I am en route to alcohol and drug addiction treatment in a week. I have been on the typical route of being a former HEAVY opiate addict, got clean and used kratom to curb the withdrawal symptoms. I sit here 5 years later, still off of opiates, yet 100% addicted to kratom, using a dangerous amount for 5 years, alongside of drinking a minimum of 10 tall boys a day, maximum of 40oz liquor.
Kratom is dangerous for people like us, very dangerous. It's marketed like the miracle substance, yet it's the same ol game.
I go in for treatment for kratom and alcohol next week, if you wanted to have a conversation about this feel free to respond to this post and I can stay in the loop during the process.
You're an inspiration homie, thank you for your honesty
Kratom is definitely a drug and now with the 7oh stuff it will get kratom banned. Im calling it now
@@Azepam people always have to ruin things by 10x it. Using the traditional leaf is like coffee:
lets try to advocate for whole leaf material. out with the liquid extracts, 7oh tablets and all the other adulterated products. and also set up tapering guidelines and remind ppl that breaks are essential... its never what your doing its how your doing it
I pray that Kratom is made illegal. It’s already illegal in almost all other countries except usa
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
@@allthingssilver7635
I used subs to get off kratom lol
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often?
I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
kratom extracts like Feel Free and OPMS are WAYYYYY worse than regular leaf
Absolutely! Huge difference
"Regular Leaf" AKA taking 20 capsules and thinking it's normal.
Correct.
@@UpriseMusic 20 capsules is not normal. Just a tsp of powder. 2-4 g
It is for addicts. 20 pills three times a day for ppl who struggle with wanting to be high as possible all day long.@ughhstuff
Thank you for this important message. More and more people are sharing their stories of struggles with kratom. There is a way out!
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
It is not an opiate. Its an opiate antagonist. No opium in it.
Ex heroin addict. Iv been on kratom since 2016, and i take 2 tablespoons a day one in the morning and one at night . And iv never upped my dose in that time. So this podcast is very interesting to me…. Even my source that i get my kilos from says it rare that he sells to someone that has maintained the same dosage for that amount of time.
I did that w Xanax 1 football a day for about 10 years and quit lol😂
We are different brother an 1/8 of smoke lasts me a week😊
Feel free isnt kratom. This is irresponsibly discussed here. Kratom has literally saved lives
How is it not Kratom ?
That's whatever but as someone who took kratom for 10 years I wish I'd never touched the shit.
@@greatvaluecorndog What happened? Any long-term or lingering health effects? Did they subside after quitting?
I really need to quit…again.
@dylantech my liver and kidneys thanked me and my sleep is back to normal. The leg pains lasted for actual weeks when I quit.
Feel free is kratom and kava.. kava is relatively harmless and feel free doesn't have a crazy amount of kratom so people must be really overdoing it to be addicted. The withdrawal from those would just be a headache and boredom.
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that.
I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise.
I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart.
Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors.
Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal.
Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Took it for a few years (powder at gas station in green/white bag mixed with soft drink or tea) then started having digestive problems stopped then had diarrhea every day for TWO MONTHS. Finally got better.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
That sounds like a personal problem. We don't need to take it away because some people make worse choices than others
I knew it was addictive and I chose to take it and i'm fine with that. it's 2 dollars a day.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 were did I say it needs to be takin away?
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 whatever drug pusher
Thats why scapegoating kratom is bad. This is a behavioral issue.
All substances can become an addiction. Knowledge of the effects of that addiction are important. Abusing just about anything can become an addiction. Moderation is obviously a key element in controlling one’s compulsions and therefore addictions. Be kind to your fellow man as well as yourself. 🙂
Thank you 👍🏻🙂
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
Correct. It’s not comparable. It’s like saying THC-O is the same as some regular marijuana.
100% the leaf is self-regulating. I have been using Kratom for almost 20 years.
@@corneliusparkin2401 thc-o mess you up ?
RUclips will not allow me to comment. The leaf is addictive ffs
@@vlnow not nearly as much as the extracts, also youtube did allow you to comment
I am a 68 yr woman and I am addicted to Kratom. Working on a quit plan with my family. Just told my boyfriend I'm addicted and he seems to think it's no big deal to quit. It has been about 6 straight years and I am a little nervous to face it, the quitting that is. I have so much to say about it. Another time
You can do it !!
Seems like the extracts are what’s causing the problems for people. I was on the pills daily for years. When I quit cold turkey I didn’t have any of the symptoms like described here
Tapering from 20 gpd to zero over 3 weeks. Down to 7gpd. No issues
I used to do pills and drank alot but got off the pills. Got a better job but still drank pretty heavy on my off nights. And i wanted to keep drinking. I came across kratom and it made me not want to drink. I only ever took powder not the concentrates. Now people are saying its worse but im trying to find out if its only people who take a bunch or concentrates. I like to think the 6 grams i take once ir twice a week is better but these stories make me feel like im lying to myself.
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
Deonside huh who's that mate a black guy athlete or some shisa
This year I am 40 years drug free. I won't tell you it's easy, I won't tell you that won't relapse, but I can tell you that it is 100% worth it. The key is to get into therapy, and find out WHY you feel the need to not feel things. When you can face your demons, the demons can't chase after you anymore.
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom”
Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more.
Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people.
Kratom saves lives.
@@hunkerdown there’s literally no difference in withdrawal
@hunkerdown
Nah dude…. There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to qutting kratom. A lot of those people are addicted to powder.
30g, 50g, 70g a day habits, those addictions are brutal. Not to mention powder and full spectrum extracts (which feel free would fall into) have TONS of alkaloids in addition to just mitragyne, which makes withdrawal agruably worse.
It’s one thing if you have a scale and weigh out 5g’s 2-3 times a week, but you absolutely can become super dependent to powder….don’t kid yourself.
@@topher3178 my experience has been different
@ IMO, 30-70g a day is a lot! But hey, everyone is different. I think people underestimate the power of “less is more” with Kratom.
I used to use a scale but now I can use a teaspoon to measure out 2g. I only consume 2g, 2 or 3x day, depending on my pain level.
I have consumed all kinds of Kratom from powder & loose leaf to different kinds of extracts. I have noticed that when I consume extracts that have a higher amount of 7oH vs full spectrum, it throws off my regular powder intake and the powder isn’t as effective, essentially messing with my tolerance level to regular powder.
I do believe there are people dependent on Kratom, for sure. Addicted seems like a strong term for regular powder.
@@hunkerdown no it doesn’t. you are in denial
Thanks Jason. Haven't watched your podcast in 4ever, glad to be back
I don't know what extracts are equal to, but I was doing about 30 grams a day for over a year, but I've been off and on for 5 or more years, it's definitely not easy to quit, this is my 3rd round of going back to it and quitting. The bad part is it's so cheap where I live, it's only $24 for 8oz here in Florida and the smoke shop is literally walking distance from my house.. I currently have over 60, 8oz bags that I never threw away that have a little still in them. Kratom plants itself into your life, to where you live around kratom, before bed, when you get up, while working etc, this is what makes it so hard to quit, I'm on day 3 currently and hopefully this is my last time quitting, it gets harder every time you relapse. Good luck everybody trying to quit, it's not impossible, you got this.
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from.
Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
Those 2 elements help a lot
2 grams is near zero compared to 50.
This is great guys. Thanks for this insight
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
@@beastmerc84 kava is not way more potent. It’s just another thing that’s similar to kratom.
Absolutely...Way more potent
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
@@corneliusparkin2401 Kratom extract is way more dangerous n way more toxic, stronger on all levels...Trust me, it's no good!!
@corneliusparkin2401 Makes sense.
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted?
It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills.
Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression.
nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time.
Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
Listen to the podcast. What they are describing is more akin to a heroin withdrawal than what you would expect from a Kratom product and nobody’s talking about it.
Fevers, chills, sweating, spasming, nausea, diarrhea, etc.
I have heard nothing good about this drug. Glad Jason is man enough to talk about the hard stuff
...
This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 yeah it's stupid.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
I take a few caps of Malaysian white with a couple cups of coffee as my pre workout before lifting. Never understood the kratom-opioid connection- to me it feels much more like a caffeine or yohimbine type of stimulant, never noticed anything opiate about it at all. In fact Kratom is in the same family as the coffee plant and from my understanding primarily hits the noradranergic receptors like typical stimulants would. The binding at the u opiod receptors is extremely low except the hydroxy metabolite. Maybe it's different for different people depending on your cytochrome expression and how you metabolize it.
if you cant lay your head down at night knowing that you did everything with in your means to be a proper human being,then you're depriving yourself of one the best parts of our human experience. When you're able to be fully transparent, when you're finally able to comprehend understand the meaning of life and what your role in it will be. Then Being honest about your personal experience with something and sharing what you've learned is the best thing you could do. I loved this!!
Currently struggling with kicking the kratom. Done it for years cuz I did opioids for 10 years. Hard as hell. Good on ya Ellis it's tough
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down.
I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture.
She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
@@JustinHenke-b2y you can do it bro. It’s not easy. Good luck!
You me same. Fuggin dr drop me like a rock. Been on the Kratom and now the new stuff is low grade heroin in a shot. I’m gonna ween.
So I’ve been in Kratom for 2 years every single day. Not extracts but just the powder inside capsules “pills”
I’d take 5 to 6 caps every 3 or 4 hours from wake till sleep. Over the last month over slowly weaned down every 3 hours I’d take one less capsule. I now go all day working and I got to the gym and lift with cardio and I have none all day till I’m about to go to sleep. I only take 4 before bed and I’ve not had any withdrawal at all so far. Afraid to not take it before bed because I feel I won’t sleep without it.
I’ve quit oxycodone a few times after months and years of abuse and it was absolute hell!
I’ve been a drug addict my entire life, I’m 37. My story is so similar to Jason’s as far as drug use. Alcohol Xanax Cocaine Crack Meth Heroin all of it. Acid mushrooms ecstasy ketamine weed pills etc. My last addiction was Kratom, 3 years on, 1 year clean from it. This is by far the best depiction of its issues I’ve come across. Kratom was terrible for me personally and my mind is now clear and free from that garbage sludge.
Kratom is the devil, i quit meth after 8 years, i can not put kratom down no matter how hard i try
I quit a 15 year meth addiction and only felt tired during " withdrawal". I'm currently trying to get of kratom and it's the hardest thing in my life.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
They will get it banned guaranteed
I agree. I tell people to stay away from kratom for the most part, but this isn’t the most nuanced discussion about it and they’re by no means kratom experts. I think People have trouble with the kratom conversation because it is the definition of shade of grey. Helpful for some people, destructive for others. I know people who use feel free totally responsibly and have zero issues with it, and I know people (including myself) that struggle with an addiction to it. It’s just an interesting topic in that regard. But believe me, there are A LOT of substances out there that are way worse than kratom, and that doesn’t mean I think kratom is a good thing. Once again, shade of grey.
You’re in denial! It’s a drug!
Holiday heart syndrome. Had it for years.2years sober after 30 years!good show guys!
I’ve been taking Kratom powder daily for 8 years. I’ll stop for a week at a time every few months, and I’ve never experienced any of these symptoms. If it were really bad for the body, I would quit. But my personal experience just doesn’t show that. Not sure what to think about the whole situation
Agree I use for energy I take about 4 teaspoons of white maeng da for about 5 years ✌🏻🙂
Same I’ve been taking it for 6 years I stop here and there 1-2 weeks at a time
I’ve never felt any withdrawal
I do vape weed daily
But no withdrawal
You are in denial…its a drug
Sweet gotta check this out, found out your story today really glad ondid
I miss seeing the guests reactions to the intro song 😁 always made me giggle. I even sang with Jason 🤣