they didnt go anywhere. Those ARE the cars from the 60s. just got a major in shop overhaul by Alstom. But i dont like them to much. the old way was just fine.
Oh PATCO trains have a little map for septa, njt and more stuff like that. when you be heading to Atlantic city you might see patco trains. and also they have a tv inside of them now. Cool! i rid patco before btw. I miss the older patco trains tho, so much nostalgia...
The singles should have been kept singles. Also, the singles' shells should have been sent to Delaware Car because they can make that single-leaf door area disappear like it wasn't there to begin with instead of a patch panel covering up the door opening. Plus, the 8th & Market automated announcements need to include SEPTA Regional Rail (The SL-Vs include PATCO for their Market East [I refuse to call it Jefferson] announcements).
There really was NO REASON to keep the single-units. The ridership demands even during the weekend and late night hours needs at least 2 cars and making odd numbered train are operationally impractical in this day and age. It makes sense to keep things in 2s and adjust to ridership accordingly instead of having to akwardly send out a 5-Car train during Rush Hour because you couldn't find another single to tack on in time between the service periods. See what i'm getting at. Little headaches like that is the reason why the singles are now pairs. It's just better to either be ALL singles or be ALL pairs from an operational standpoint.
Surprised they kept the same [nearly-50 year old] motors. I figured for sure they would go with AC-induction motors. Interiors and automated announcements are huge advances.
nyshortline A lot of us are surprised about that... and I think that is also the root of most of the software issues they had, linking them to old DC motor systems.... even if the motors were rebuilt....
The cars have those idiot TV screens that keep showing the same things over and over and over, plus those bone-rushing grey seats that are the same crappy stuff as the Silver Vs...both belong in the junk pile
So it seems the full-width cab doesn't really intrude on the railfan perspective, as there's still a completely transparent window in the door. Basically, now it's the same setup as Miami Metrorail.
We rode the last four, they were very quiet and smother. The rebuilt cars were loud and rough riding, very disappointed in the performance. They look very nice inside and out, they resemble the BSS cars now, noticed marker lights gone. One annoying thing is the six bell ring for doors closing
Do you know what the high-pitched whine is when the cars accelerate from a stop? It seems similar to the R160 cars in NYC. I agree that they should have looked at new cars for the line, but it is the DRPA we're talking about here...
acabinian The initial whine, I guess would be from the new AC inverters, but the constant whine at speed is the traction motors themselves... that is a classic sound for those cars here.
+trainman1971 If the traction motors are DC, then they wouldn't need inverters for the propulsion. I assume that they have invertors for the A/C and air compressors.
+Joseph Heston Yeah, I knew the traction motors wouldn't need them. But I sure did wonder what they would even need them for, and as the HVAC and all other mechanical equipment is brand new, that would make sense.
I'm not religious. But the wisdom of Jesus states that one does not put new wine in an old wine skin or it will burst. Similarly maybe one should not try grafting new technology computers on to old technology 1960ish dc traction motors.. Ah we shall soon see how this plays out..
+Anthony Bonelli Well SEPTA did replace the old GE cam controllers with IBGTs on the B-IVs and are still using GE motors. Also, the K-Cars used on the Subway-Surface and the 101/102 lines use Westinghouse 1460 motors (which is an upgraded version of the 1454 that were used on the single unit and even-numbered half of a married pair Almond Joys).
Such riskiness might explain why Frisco has never dared touch its laughably barfy trains. Anyhow, blame crookedly meddlesome corporateers, I would.. .. . .
+Joseph Heston One problem PATCO has stated that was most difficult to overcome with this rebuild, was tying the old DC traction motors to the new computer-controlled systems. While they are the original traction motors... they were rebuilt in the process...
+TrainSounds Oh, I'm afraid they are worse... in so many ways. Let's say that there is some kind of service disruption several times a week on the line due to equipment issues with the M4's. The Almond Joys were well past their prime, but they ran....
Ding ding! I'm a tram and I approve this video!
It hits me and other PATCO riders hard to see our childhood cars get sent off. RIP Classics 1967-2018
they didnt go anywhere. Those ARE the cars from the 60s. just got a major in shop overhaul by Alstom. But i dont like them to much. the old way was just fine.
@@kevinhoward9593 this comment was posted 2 years ago.
Oh PATCO trains have a little map for septa, njt and more stuff like that. when you be heading to Atlantic city you might see patco trains. and also they have a tv inside of them now. Cool! i rid patco before btw. I miss the older patco trains tho, so much nostalgia...
The old ones were a big part of my childhood
I rode them to my aunt's house
I once almost got stuck in one that malfunctioned
Too bad the Budd Company is no longer around to rebuild them.
What about Vickers Canada?
hadn't they folded decades ago (ship builders)?
The singles should have been kept singles. Also, the singles' shells should have been sent to Delaware Car because they can make that single-leaf door area disappear like it wasn't there to begin with instead of a patch panel covering up the door opening. Plus, the 8th & Market automated announcements need to include SEPTA Regional Rail (The SL-Vs include PATCO for their Market East [I refuse to call it Jefferson] announcements).
There really was NO REASON to keep the single-units. The ridership demands even during the weekend and late night hours needs at least 2 cars and making odd numbered train are operationally impractical in this day and age. It makes sense to keep things in 2s and adjust to ridership accordingly instead of having to akwardly send out a 5-Car train during Rush Hour because you couldn't find another single to tack on in time between the service periods. See what i'm getting at. Little headaches like that is the reason why the singles are now pairs. It's just better to either be ALL singles or be ALL pairs from an operational standpoint.
Too bad they have full-width cabs now, but at least there is still a view at the front.
Surprised they kept the same [nearly-50 year old] motors. I figured for sure they would go with AC-induction motors. Interiors and automated announcements are huge advances.
nyshortline A lot of us are surprised about that... and I think that is also the root of most of the software issues they had, linking them to old DC motor systems.... even if the motors were rebuilt....
Now what shall we nickname the rebuilds? My vote would be the Silverliner V Jrs., because they are like a smaller version of an SL-V.
The cars have those idiot TV screens that keep showing the same things over and over and over, plus those bone-rushing grey seats that are the same crappy stuff as the Silver Vs...both belong in the junk pile
So it seems the full-width cab doesn't really intrude on the railfan perspective, as there's still a completely transparent window in the door. Basically, now it's the same setup as Miami Metrorail.
I miss the old interior and that smell yall know if u an og
Do they run or do they just look good and break down?
Anthony Bonelli They run, they look good, and then they break down.
Yep, still working out bugs, mostly software-related.
We rode the last four, they were very quiet and smother. The rebuilt cars were loud and rough riding, very disappointed in the performance. They look very nice inside and out, they resemble the BSS cars now, noticed marker lights gone. One annoying thing is the six bell ring for doors closing
Do you know what the high-pitched whine is when the cars accelerate from a stop? It seems similar to the R160 cars in NYC.
I agree that they should have looked at new cars for the line, but it is the DRPA we're talking about here...
acabinian The initial whine, I guess would be from the new AC inverters, but the constant whine at speed is the traction motors themselves... that is a classic sound for those cars here.
+trainman1971 If the traction motors are DC, then they wouldn't need inverters for the propulsion. I assume that they have invertors for the A/C and air compressors.
+Joseph Heston Yeah, I knew the traction motors wouldn't need them. But I sure did wonder what they would even need them for, and as the HVAC and all other mechanical equipment is brand new, that would make sense.
+trainman1971 BTW, do the rebuilds have disc brakes?
+Joseph Heston
I do not believe they do, no.
I'm not religious. But the wisdom of Jesus states that one does not put new wine in an old wine skin or it will burst. Similarly maybe one should not try grafting new technology computers on to old technology 1960ish dc traction motors.. Ah we shall soon see how this plays out..
+Anthony Bonelli Well SEPTA did replace the old GE cam controllers with IBGTs on the B-IVs and are still using GE motors. Also, the K-Cars used on the Subway-Surface and the 101/102 lines use Westinghouse 1460 motors (which is an upgraded version of the 1454 that were used on the single unit and even-numbered half of a married pair Almond Joys).
Such riskiness might explain why Frisco has never dared touch its laughably barfy trains. Anyhow, blame crookedly meddlesome corporateers, I would.. .. . .
They still sound the same and need new traction motors.
I wonder if they should have just bought new cars instead..
Anthony Bonelli So do many others....
+Anthony Bonelli No. PATCO did the right thing. In fact, this is what SEPTA should have done with the Almond Joys instead of getting the crappy M-4s.
+Joseph Heston One problem PATCO has stated that was most difficult to overcome with this rebuild, was tying the old DC traction motors to the new computer-controlled systems.
While they are the original traction motors... they were rebuilt in the process...
+Joseph Heston The M4s were much better than the almond joys from what I heard.
+TrainSounds
Oh, I'm afraid they are worse... in so many ways. Let's say that there is some kind of service disruption several times a week on the line due to equipment issues with the M4's. The Almond Joys were well past their prime, but they ran....
Im not liking these rebuilds at all 😑