Something to consider, in this video they demonstrate the level of precision and scrutiny they put into producing burrs which is unparalleled. What you have to remember is this is what they do for every part of the grinders they make, not solely the burrs. This was shown in the tour video when they said they measure the body and the carrier of every grinder, which is incredible commitment to quality over quantity
Would be interested see how mass production decent quality burrs like the ode gen 2 get made in China. This super high end is cool to watch. But how to get it down to $80 retail would be fascinating. Doubt they’d be nearly as open about their process.
Good question. A few differences come to mind right away such as the steel used. Kafatek uses a surgical stainless steel, he shows its a solid extruded bar that is cut to size, I'd bet the cheap ones are just poured (cast) from a less costly or durable metal. Might not even be stainless so they could put rust in your cup. I bet that one blank in the video costs more than most cheap burr sets. Next I've seen other videos showing what is essentially an angle grinder disc make the cuts in the burr and as demonstrated in this video when they looked under a microscope, the finish was ragged and would not make uniform particles. He also mentions heat treatment and distortion which is why many people have to put shims of tinfoil under burrs to try to get them flat in inexpensive grinders. Just my 3 cents
In all seriousness tho, thats a crazy amount of work to produce burrs in house, let alone on top of making all the parts and grinders in house. Must take alot of coffee and caffeine to keep up
Potentially yes. On lathe work where you’re gripping the material with chuck jaws, you can end up with out-of-round parts… with the jaws super tight on material then bore out the center, when the jaw pressure is released the material springs back to its resting state and is no longer round the way it was inside the chuck. Ideally I would guess that before the finishing pass on the geometry, the burr would need to come out of the CNC, mounting bolts loosened and re-torqued, finishing pass in CNC, then reground on the surface grinder. That’s a ton of time. Then again, maybe they’ve tested this, and the constant torque of the bolts against the super flat machining plate doesn’t matter. If the burr flexs up at any point, the tooling will cut it back to spec… but the CNC doesn’t touch the flat surfaces. 🤷♂️
Keywords are "no variance". Perfect grind gives a perfect espresso, often made on a 30+ thousand dollar espresso machine. Expensive hobby, but manageable as a small business startup for a coffee shop, similar to Hi Fi Audio, hence why they pair very well together.
crazy that 2nm is enough to mount the blank and later the burr. One would think that grinding vibration would loosen that screw in a heartbeat if no locktide is use.
Hope so as well. I guess if anybody was a machine shop owner and someone with money came in asking for a very precisely made part that will take a long time to wear out you would help them do that. Don't question anything about it. Just keep saying "yes" so the customer keeps paying. Now you have coffee grinder that is at aprice that can only be bought by people who won't really use it nor taste a difference in the coffee. This is the bicycle industry as well. But, ooo look! A robot!
I once ordered a set of Compak 68mm burrs and it had dinks in the fine grind areas like you wouldn't believe, some areas had whole chunks ripped off, it seems like it was a mixture of dull tools and tossing them like they don't care after manufacturing. So I got that set replaced with a new one and...same thing, I went through three and eventually got something that was reasonable, with dinks only in the rough cut areas. So always, always inspect your burrs, either take a photo (macro helps) and magnify or get one of those 10x / 25x loupes and check the whole burr. Btw have you got a video on how the cut profiles are designed? I'm guessing there's a fair bit of experimentation in that, but some form of "measurement" is probably done as well? like particle distribution or something similar?
Great to see this process. How long before we see that comment , why are they the price that they are, or is that on facebook only 😎 Loving the max v2 with SSW.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I know nothing about coffee but as a machinist this guys shop, equipment, processes, and attention to detail are amazing. I wish i had his shop.
Something to consider, in this video they demonstrate the level of precision and scrutiny they put into producing burrs which is unparalleled. What you have to remember is this is what they do for every part of the grinders they make, not solely the burrs. This was shown in the tour video when they said they measure the body and the carrier of every grinder, which is incredible commitment to quality over quantity
Very cool video! Love seeing the process of burr making.
Burry good content Mr Quan
My deepest respect to Mike and Denis!
Thanks for the video! Now I understand and value the price of the burrs.
The work being done for delicious 4th crack espresso coffee ☺️☕
Good point about reducing distortion by correctly torquing the burr screws... time to check I haven't over tightened one screw on mine!
A burrfect explanation.
Damn. That sh*t is bananas! Soooo cool
Coffee grinders go burr!
Would be interested see how mass production decent quality burrs like the ode gen 2 get made in China. This super high end is cool to watch. But how to get it down to $80 retail would be fascinating. Doubt they’d be nearly as open about their process.
Good question. A few differences come to mind right away such as the steel used. Kafatek uses a surgical stainless steel, he shows its a solid extruded bar that is cut to size, I'd bet the cheap ones are just poured (cast) from a less costly or durable metal. Might not even be stainless so they could put rust in your cup. I bet that one blank in the video costs more than most cheap burr sets.
Next I've seen other videos showing what is essentially an angle grinder disc make the cuts in the burr and as demonstrated in this video when they looked under a microscope, the finish was ragged and would not make uniform particles.
He also mentions heat treatment and distortion which is why many people have to put shims of tinfoil under burrs to try to get them flat in inexpensive grinders. Just my 3 cents
Thought of another point, the coating. That can't be cheap
@7:50 This is why ssps taste better after seasoning. 👌
I think that was a Ssp redspeed under the scope
🤣
In all seriousness tho, thats a crazy amount of work to produce burrs in house, let alone on top of making all the parts and grinders in house. Must take alot of coffee and caffeine to keep up
That's the main working part of a grinder. You can't control your quality if you don't control the main working part of your product
Yes a lot.
Incredible amount of effort, really cool to see. But the resulting burr set will grind 1000lb or more of coffee at a crazy high level.
This is sickkk
Why are they working on hardened steel, instead of hardening it as last step?
Risk of warping (not being flat)
Yeah, seems like they can do a rough cut in soft steel and then cut the last millimeter after hardening
It looks good. It looks like the setup we ran in 2012 on a CNC machine.
we didn't set up from Universal robot UR 10
Deckel Maho DMU 50 eVo linear
Look into powder metal. Could save a grip of scratch and you can fine tune the material to suit your needs. Just an idea.
Burr good
Burry burry good video
Very cool - but I'm surprised they dont use large commercial tumblers
Wow
How much one of these cost?
Doesn’t 2Nm of torque have more of an effect as the burr gets metal removed from it?
Potentially yes. On lathe work where you’re gripping the material with chuck jaws, you can end up with out-of-round parts… with the jaws super tight on material then bore out the center, when the jaw pressure is released the material springs back to its resting state and is no longer round the way it was inside the chuck. Ideally I would guess that before the finishing pass on the geometry, the burr would need to come out of the CNC, mounting bolts loosened and re-torqued, finishing pass in CNC, then reground on the surface grinder. That’s a ton of time. Then again, maybe they’ve tested this, and the constant torque of the bolts against the super flat machining plate doesn’t matter. If the burr flexs up at any point, the tooling will cut it back to spec… but the CNC doesn’t touch the flat surfaces. 🤷♂️
Burrrr that was cold
So this is how coffee hipster dreams are made.
These are burs that go into $2200 grinders.
Keywords are "no variance". Perfect grind gives a perfect espresso, often made on a 30+ thousand dollar espresso machine. Expensive hobby, but manageable as a small business startup for a coffee shop, similar to Hi Fi Audio, hence why they pair very well together.
@@waterlife.1905 like I say, hipster dreams.
crazy that 2nm is enough to mount the blank and later the burr. One would think that grinding vibration would loosen that screw in a heartbeat if no locktide is use.
Approx 1.5 ft pounds per screw, times 3 is not insignificant
burr good
I wonder if Denis manufactures other stuff in his workshop, I can't imagine the grinder business can turn a profit by itself on these machines
The grinders are priced for all this overhead. That explains Kafatek prices for grinders and burrs fully produced in the US.
Hope so as well.
I guess if anybody was a machine shop owner and someone with money came in asking for a very precisely made part that will take a long time to wear out you would help them do that. Don't question anything about it. Just keep saying "yes" so the customer keeps paying. Now you have coffee grinder that is at aprice that can only be bought by people who won't really use it nor taste a difference in the coffee. This is the bicycle industry as well. But, ooo look! A robot!
@@62davelee Don't get me started on the bike industry...I could go on for days
Burry burry gud
We do it with rock grinder, those grinder are made by hand..no need all those fancy costy devices...
😎
I once ordered a set of Compak 68mm burrs and it had dinks in the fine grind areas like you wouldn't believe, some areas had whole chunks ripped off, it seems like it was a mixture of dull tools and tossing them like they don't care after manufacturing. So I got that set replaced with a new one and...same thing, I went through three and eventually got something that was reasonable, with dinks only in the rough cut areas. So always, always inspect your burrs, either take a photo (macro helps) and magnify or get one of those 10x / 25x loupes and check the whole burr.
Btw have you got a video on how the cut profiles are designed? I'm guessing there's a fair bit of experimentation in that, but some form of "measurement" is probably done as well? like particle distribution or something similar?
Great to see this process.
How long before we see that comment , why are they the price that they are, or is that on facebook only 😎
Loving the max v2 with SSW.
Just found a set of 98mm flat burrs from Ali express for 95$ shipped, guaranteed to be the same haha
@@R.K2424
I can't give that a thumbs up so a "haha" will have to do 😊
I'm surprised their burrs aren't more expensive. Hopefully he's paid well
burr good