NOTE ON INNATE SORCERY: I’ve had a lot of comments disagreeing with me but funnily enough I mostly agree with the disagreements. Something I should have been more clear about is that I don’t think that Sorcerers should have tons of uses of Innate or have 100 Sorcery Points. I should have been *much* more clear that I truly love the design they took with the new Sorcerer and just wish that they had gone even further with it. I would have loved to see more ways of using Innate Sorcery and ways that integrate with the subclass. Even if that means toning down what it currently does. This would really help give a unique identity to the class: Right now, there aren’t really any mentions in the subclass of using Sorcery Points and none that take advantage of Innate Sorcery: as a result, the subclasses can potentially feel disconnected from the main class. On top of that though( it paints the design team into a bit of a corner. If they do decide at some point in the future that new subclasses WILL get to use SP or Innate Sorcery uses in some capacity, then the 4 PHB subclasses will likely feel a bit left behind. So because of this design choice, they effectively limit future subclass design. Sorcerers are very powerful. Innate Sorcery is really cool. I just wish they explored it more. Hopefully that clears some things up.
I can maybe see what you're saying, but I guess the difference between you and me is that I was already content with just the playtest changes because Sorcerer is a full caster. It was arguably the weakest one sure, but the version of Innate Sorcery & other new features that we got is far more significant than what the others have gotten. A +1 to DC alone is one of the strongest things you can possibly give a caster for free. For me, even way back when I first saw it Innate Sorcery automatically reminded me of Rage & I was immediately sold. Barbarian is my favorite class, and giving the Sorcerer a similar in vibe feature admittedly is enough for me to overlook some things. It being more limited though makes sense when again we're comparing a Full caster to a pure Martial. I've playtested both classes from the latest versions, and I was very satisfied with both in pretty much every way cause I had this mindset already. You say that it is clunky, and while it may be a little, I believe people are disagreeing with because of how it compares to other classes. Ranger & Paladin were much less well received and it's no secret players do not like how they handled Smite & Favored Enemy. Even if Sorcerer is a little clunky, when compared to the half-casters it's as smooth as butter. Sorcerer doesn't have to concentrate on Incarnate like it did earlier in the playtest, Sorcerer doesn't have to use a bonus action every turn to keep using Innate Sorcery. A +1 to spell save DC will always be useful, meanwhile a d6 to damage is only going to get you so far on Ranger. Overall, I feel like for a Full Caster Sorcerer got a lot out of this when we're comparing it to other classes, but I can see how that's a bad way to look at it if we're dissatisfied with a lot of the classes overall.
This is a case of "Cut corners save time" by using what were acknowledged as good subclasses, more or less unchanged, they save time for areas that needed more work, I think you'll see more done on the subclasses that are in the inevitable spaltbooks.
Well you were wrong about them not changing sorcerous recovery "all that much". And they gave sorcerer's a way to recovery resources kinda like warlock does. I would take this video down. It's obsolete. Or post a video rectifying it.
Just from what Treantmonk and Nerd Emersion have said about the Clockwork and Aberrant subclasses I’m fairly confident the change is their ability to switch out the spells from their “Clock work spells” and “Aberrant Spells” list for options from other schools. The way it’s being discussed the same change was made to both subclasses. And besides access to an expanded spell list It’s the only feature that both of the subclasses share.
While I suspect that is what the unnamed nerf was, it could also be that they reduced it to wizards spells or one school of magic, but most likely it is that you can no longer switch them out, which is lame.
Yes, this is very clearly what they did, and it is a *significant* nerf, but most players probably wont even notice it because they aren't optimisers Honestly otherwise there is no reason to play dragonic or chaos sorcerer still, plus they added more spells known to base sorcerer anyway I believe
This is the first video im gonna have to respectfully disagree. Love all the changes and sorcerer is probably my go to spellcaster now. Still great video as always.
Not a problem with me :) to each their own! That’s the beauty of the game! I think my issue is that it’s always been one of my least favourite classes going into it and I was hoping for these updates to change my mind haha. So I was maybe a bit harder than I should have been.
Personally I just think they flubbed the Draconic Sorcerer's flavor. Its not about having a dragon pet, its about BEING a dragon. Its fine as a generic spellcaster of course but its a flavor fail unless you want to call the buddy your lil bro or something.
@@MeriliremI’m coming off the Druid top rope and crying foul. Give me a Treant, a Shambling Mound, a Tiger, or something at level 15. The Ranger can cast at level 1, so why not a Druid. Wild Magic Sorcerer sounds, well, Wild, but I DO hope that there’s an actual unique spell list in that new chart.
@@Merilirem I feel similarly about All paladins having find steed as a coral ability, pets in mountain combat has always been so strange in this game, and pets especially make combat drag on more. Why the hell does my draconic bloodline sorcerer just literally have a dragon
disagree on innate sorcery, two free usages before needing to use resources per long rest sounds perfectly fine for what is a power up ability that isn't outright necesary for the majority of the class to function (unlike barbarian's rage). That resource pool only deepens as you level up, so the downside of using said resources only decreases as time goes on. A super saiyan power up loses some of it's special oomf when you can just have it always active for free in every fight. By level 20 that resource issue practically no longer exists, because for the cost of 2 sorcery points (if already out of usages) you can now for 1 minute continually cast your spells with heightened spell (which would normally cost 2 SP for every use) for free.
2 Sorc points for super spell rage? No bro! So limiting and expensive. Meanwhile, my level 11 5e Sorlock be like... "I spend two points to Quicken Eldritch Brrrrrrlast, and then follow up again with another Agonizing brrrrlast!" Next round....repeat Next round...repeat. We can already manage our resources well enough in 5E, 2 sorc points for a continous feature and two free uses is PLENTY. Like, sometimes I get the sense from these dudes that if WOTC gives you a resource, unless you can spam it for free for 5 encounters they aren't happy. It's called....resource....management. learn it. Play smarter not harder. 😂😅😅
@@007ohboy The new edition is made for people that want to "win" like a video game. It is extremely player loaded to sell books. I'm very disappointed in most changes to classes.
@lucaspiresribeiro4293 😆 🤣 You're playing a game. It's just a video game with crappy graphics and fleshy brains running the coding. Like 5E isn't about empowering players with cool abilities. Somethings in 5E were just a little too good....like Quivering Palm, multiple Stun strikes in a round, or the extreme Paladin smiting nerfs. If anything this adds so much more flavor, is more customizable (Orc Sorcerer anyone!?) and even the spells have been cleaned up. The Suggestion Spell needs a huge rewrite with common examples. DnD 2024 all the way. Make me win, mommy! 😆 🤣
@@007ohboy It's so much different from a video game (no hate I love them) and I think it is very telling that you don't grasp it as so. Balance is a finicky thing, but breaking the game's math will limit this edition a lot. Not to mention that they did not fix very important issues from 5e, like the skill system and lack of an exploration gaming loop
My only real complaint so far with sorcerer is the dragon sorcerer capstone. Now don't get me wrong, I actually really like being able to summon a dragon for free and without concentration, it's very useful and can have neat flavoring if you do it right (projecting your own inner draconic power, summoning an echo of your draconic ancestor, or even just teleporting in a dragon sibling to come help out). But what I really want for draconic sorcerer is just the ability to finally turn into a dragon. It always irked me in 5E that sorcerers did not get true polymorph, meaning a draconic sorcerer could never become a full dragon while a wizard or bard could. I'd find it pretty interesting if the capstone allowed you a free usage of true polymorph but limited to only dragon monsters, or alternatively you can choose between casting true polymorph (limited to dragons) or summon dragon for free once per long rest. If true polymorph is finally added to the sorcerer spell list proper then I'll ultimately be fine with the capstone how it is, but if true polymorph isn't on the spell list it'll be pretty disapointing and make the draconic capstone feel like a huge missed opportunity.
Honestly I'm just relieved they didn't try that absolutely lazy "let's just slap a breath weapon onto it like we do with all the draconic subclasses and call it a day" BS they pulled with the UA
RE True Polymorph, I wouldn't be surprised if Sorcs do get it on their spell list now. It's pure conjecture, but my best guess is that they didn't get it before because WotC didn't want it Twinned. Now that they can no longer Twin spells like these, I don't see why they wouldn't get it since the Sorc's intentional gaps generally don't involve Transmutation. I think Foresight had a similar issue, but for that one I'm curious if Extend Spell is still too much of a concern.
I think everyone forgets that Officially all content from 5e will be in 5.24e This means things like the planar shards are in the game. Wildmagic sorcerers can use the surge table 5 times a turn. Also, Mage Rage is an insane feature. It seems small, but look at it in other ways: 1 level gives Rogue a better way to use their gish cantrip builds, combining it with Heighten Spell makes Sorcerer the best lock down class in the game, and since it levels so effectively, it works to combo with things like the planar shards to make it the last balanced feature... well almost. The least balanced thing is you can retoll wildmagic surges with heroic inspiration. As a sorcerer main this was the fixes I want (except I would have liked an upgraded metamagic list at high levels. Examples: Widen spell in increase area of effect, dual cantrip to cast 2 cantrips with an action, ect)
Widen spell is in overlord, Ainz used it to cast cry of the banshee, an anime exclusive spell that causes instant death in a 60ft cone, and then he used an archlich racial class ability to make it bypass thinks like deathward or instant death immunity, and the goal of all life is death to lower the cast time from a minute to an action, then he used widen magic, the old metamagics increased the slot level of the spell, so it basically turned (in D&D equivalents), a 1 minute cast 7th level 60ft cone save or instant death spell, into a level 9 1 round cast time (concentration until it finishes the casting at the start of your next turn) 120ft cone spell that causes just instant death bypassing all Resistances and immunities I think it would be absolutely wild if just, utter nonsense like this was just allowed in D&D anymore, cause widen magic is literally from 3rd edition or 3.5 and they removed it because it is blatantly overpowered
I don’t mind the state of the Sorcerer. The 2014 Sorcerer is absolutely fantastic and this new version of the class is even stronger. Sure, Innate Sorcery is more limited than I’d like but it’s a powerful buff on a strong class, if it was too abundant it could easily have been overpowered.
I've been playtesting the UA Sorcerer up to level 14 for a few months now and I can say it's not as clunky as you may fear it to be. The Inmate Sorcery transformation feels similar to the fighter's Action Surge. You use it when you want to go super saiyan and it feels soooo good- especially with Cantrips. The new sorcerer cantrip is especially powerful with this feature. Sorcery points management feels relatively the same but the additional known spells had the biggest impact. Sorcery Incarnate is an alright feature for those situations when you're in multiple combat encounters in a single day. I've only used it once or twice. But to your point there wasn't a drastic overhaul of the sorcerer like to the Warlock. Just enhancements similar to the wizard.
Did they confirm if Sorcerous Burst is still in the book? I don't remember it coming up in the sorcerer video, but either way I hope it did make it in.
I’ve been playtesting the sorcerer in a Curse of Strahd game and never had the thought cross my mind that I should save my Innate Sorcery for a later use, because we simply do not have several encounters per adventuring day. Even for parties that do have tons of encounters, I feel like you’ll know the best times to use the ability, unless you’re playing a super difficult game with many very tough fights per day. One thing that I do think is not being mentioned nearly enough was the various cost reductions for features using sorcery points. Almost all Metamagic options cost 1 point, and only a few cost 2. They did mention the resistance feature in the Draconic sorcerer no longer costs points, but the Wild Magic feature Bend Luck also got a reduction for 2 points to 1. One thing I think they did miss on is deciding to not give an expanded spell list to Wild Magic. Their explanation that the Wild Magic table is their expanded spell list doesn’t track to me, because expanded spells are always available for you to use (if you have spell slots, of course). There are so many chaos themed spells you could make a spell list from, and maybe if they cast a spell from that list, they have to roll for a wild magic surge with 2 or more d20s instead of 1. I’m also a bit concerned about Tides of Chaos, because if you have Innate Sorcery active, you can effectively only use Tides of Chaos it on ability checks or saves. This makes it a bit out of your control to expend, and if you can’t expend it, you can’t regain it to cause a Wild Magic Surge.
So the sorcerer blog post on DnD beyond just dropped and sorcerous restoration now works where you can regain sorcerer points equal to half your sorcery points on a short rest once per day. I personally like this and effectively means by level 20 you would have 30 sorcerer points without exhausting your spell slots
So i don't agree with your assessment on the number of uses on Innate Sorcery. If it was more available, then it would feel like it HAS to be on. By allowing two uses, you can use the first one "when you feel like it", perhaps if an fight looks tough, or if you decide you're going to spam attack roll cantrips this battle. You still have your second use in your back pocket for a potential boss fight, night time ambush etc. At 7th, you now just have more slots and things you can do with your sorcery points. If you are leaning into attack rolls, well now you can have more uses of Innate Sorcery if you like. There are quite a few things in 5.24 that im not the biggest fan of, but I think they got this one spot on, because they didnt have a huge amount of room to buff the sorcerer.
Totally fair and to each their own :) Something I probably should have been more clear on, that I’ve also mentioned in other comments, is that I don’t think they should have just said “here’s 100 uses or SP or whatever”. It would have had to come along with additional rebalancing of the feature itself and what Sorcery Points can do. I agree that it shouldn’t feel like it always has to be on but that can also be tackled in ways by reducing availability but increasing regeneration or tying regeneration to some other resource. All that said I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying here. I just think they could have done a bit more with the class.
By 7th level I was usually cannibalize my 2nd level slots for sorcery points anyways. Giving up 3, 2nd level slots to get to 5 uses of the new ability is not that bad. Still leaves you with 7 points for your 4, 1st level slots, 3, 3rd level slots, and 2, 4th level slots. If I'm right and they reduced the cost of meta magic abilities then I love this
At my table, we play with the Spell Point Variant rule from the DMG... This way, Spell Points can just be added to Sorcery Points, for one big, versatile, easy to track, resource. And if you can cast Sorcery Incarnate with Sorcery/Spell Points... It's equivalent to a first level spell... Pretty good for that price. P.S. We also allow Everyone to use the -5/+10 from GWM and Sharpshooter with any weapon attack to help balance the Martial/Caster divide, which is enhanced by the added flexibility.
back in march when I first I first saw the sorcerer incarnate feature a friend pointed out to me that since you only have two meta magics, if one of them was something you could already combine then you couldn't use the sorcerer incarnate feature, and I came to the realization that there is also a problem with meta magics that some meta magics can't be combined because they are inherently contradictory. For example, twinned can not be combined with careful because there's no overlap on the venn diagram of AOE and twinnable spells. I made a spreadsheet to check if this is a serious problem, and out of the 45 combinations of 2 meta magics, 19, can not benefit from sorcerer incarnate in any way what so ever. 2 can be used on rare archtypes of spells (such as elemental damage with a duration), 6 can be used on entire common archetypes of spells (such as aoe that is also damage) and only 18 can be combined in such a way where if it is possible to use one of your meta magics it's always possible to use the other. For almost half, 42% of sorcerers to not have a functional 7th level feature feels very bad to me. and for a sorcerer to have only one possible combination of two meta magics kind of spits in the face of "on the fly flexibility" as well. Though the solution to both of these problems is to just have more access to different meta magics than that starved quantity of two. Maybe they'll do the first sorceror playtest of letting them prepare meta magics, or make you start with 3, but they'll probably just bring the sorcerer initiate feat to the phb and call it good
Very good video and analysis, but I disagree with you on giving more resources or uses to sorcerer points. Sorcerer is a full caster, with a pretty long list of very good and strong spells, if you are giving them even more stuff to do and to choose you will: 1. Slow down the game, 'cause there's already metamagic, point conversion and magical effects from spells 2. Enlarge the gap between martials and casters, where martials gain lots of features, full casters are gaining lots of spells. 3. Create a gap with other casters, where the majority of them have few class features with limited effects (bardic inspiration, wild shape, channel divinity, arcane recovery...) and sorcerer would have plenty of more magic power, a lot of choice for spells, and even more features to exploit. Finally, I think that at higher level you are gonna dump at least half your lower level spell slot to gain additional high level slots or a ton of sorcery points, so the problem persists only at lower levels, but they would be at the same level of other casters.
Yeah I mean I think I pretty much agree with you on all this. Something I probably should have been more clear about is that I don’t think they should have been like “just give them 100 points and call it a day” lol. It would be a delicate and intricate balance to ensure that things aren’t blown out way too far. They could tone down some of the options and even what something like Innate Sorcery does. The point I was really trying to make was that I think they could have gone a bit more all out on the design than what seems a bit half finished to me.
@@InsightCheck Yep, I agree with you on that, we'll see when this sorcerer will be played by most of the players. Thank you for your good video and analysis!
Like I said before, I get the sense from some players that if DnD gives you a resource, they aren't happy with it unless you can spam it willy nilly. I don't know what game these people play. I'm playing 5e right now with 4 wildly different Sorcerer builds and they can manage their spell slots and SPs rather well. Sure, it sucks in the lower levels because...well....you suck at lower levels. That's how it's supposed to work. Also, to those people complaining about not having enough exploitable resources, maybe try playing past 8th level and fully explore your character before you get bored and just reroll up a new low level character. Just a thought. 😂😅
I like the streamlining but even with Treantmonks conversion trick, I agree with you that they go too fast. I would homebrew to allow sorcerous restoration to divide by 4 or 3, and make the total SP equal to sorcerer level + CHA mod
I’m a salty Druid simp. I’m glad you didn’t. Storm Sorcerers were amazing. I think Sorcerers are likely the best overall casting class. These changes seem to make Sorcerers LEAP ahead. Throw Storm Sorcery in there and it’s a wash.
Have you seen Treantmonk's hack of the new sorcerer? If the features are the same as the UA, the trick is to convert all your sorcery points to slots to take advantage of the features that give you extra when you don't have any. The design is to force players to use font of magic a lot more. As a sorcerer player myself, I have to admit that I rarely convert my points to slots and back again. We'll have to see 8/1 when the gag comes off TM and the other early reviewers.
Huh, so they Did change Sorcerous Restoration. It now only works once per long rest. After a short rest, you can regain half your expended sorcery points. Goodbye treantmonk hack (sort of), since you'll still want to convert any overflow points into spell slots befote you rest so you get the max value out of the restore.
To me it just feels a little clunky which is a shame as Sorcerer is my favourite class thematically. The way I read it, the optimal thing to do is before you take a short rest use all your sorcery points to refill used spell slots. You then regain 1-4 SP which you then also immediately turn into spell slots so you have 0 when you roll initiative, and get the refill again. On your turn, you then convert spell slots back into SP so you have some to use. That way you constantly get the minor refill. But as you say that feels like a “hack” not the intended way to use the feature. It’s forcing you to jump through unnecessary hoops when it could be so simple. I also highly doubt a new player is going to read those features and work out that convoluted hack. I agree with IC, it feels like they’ve made the same errors they did in 2014 with other classes And the capstone feels pretty underwhelming, given it’s a feature to help stretch your SP right at the point when you need to worry about that the least. I preferred the wish version or even just making innate sorcery a full on magical rage where you have magic resistance when it’s active (adv on saves & 1/2 damage) or fuse them so if you succeed a save vs a spell while it’s active you absorb some of the magic and regain SP equal to half the spells level or something. It’s a capstone that most people barley ever get to with a character, it should feel overpowered IMO
I fundamentally disagree about your description of Innate Sorcery and Sorcery Incarnate, the former is the main feature and the first 2 times you use it you gain an additional advantage if you'd get some good use out of a second metamagic. However the actual effect of the latter is that you can use some spare sorcery points to give you that DC increase or permanent advantage on spell attack rolls! It's a good synergy imo!
I see your points. Sorcerers lack sorcery points at early levels. I feel like this problem, as you said, self-resolves at around 10ish level. But since most campaigns don't start but rather end at that level, it's a bit of a problem. Generally speaking, D&D's balance is at an optimum from levels 5-10.
TBH you only get about 4 to 5 turns in the typical encounter on the high end. Not to mention after about 2 encounters you’re gonna get a short rest which will restore sorcery points. This is a crazy powerful ability and it’s important to not make it broken.
I feel like pact magic should use the variant spell points instead of spell slots. This way you could use lower level spells more often or burn through points faster with higher level spells.
Seems like a lot of people disagree with you on innate sorcery and I have to say I disagree too haha. I feel like it's very different than Pact Slots because being in the innate sorcery state isn't vital to the class. You can still be very effective without having advantage on attacks. Also, you can save one for the big bad and use the other one as desired. I really like the feature because it solidifies Sorcerers as the blasters. I think this will probably make quickened spell the best meta magic by far since your cantrips will be so reliable. (Or if you have a barbarian dong trip attacks all the time then it'll be at least as reliable as before lol)
They do and that’s totally fine! I’ve got nothing against disagreement :) I was probably a bit too unclear in the video. What I really meant was that I just wish they had taken the feature and what it can do even further and lean into it to truly give the class a unique identity. Even if that meant toning down what Innate Sorcery does. We don’t really see anything in the subclasses that makes use of Innate Sorcery or Sorcery Points and that just feels like a missed opportunity. The feature itself is really good and very powerful. It’s just some nitpicking of design elements for me, that’s all.
I enjoy the changes that they've made to the sorcerer. The sorcery point pool issue is a thing that i always homebrew anyway where i usually have the sorcerer regain a d6 of metamagic points on a short rest. This stacks if they have a bloodwell vial which restores 5 on the first sort rest (except i allow the restoration at every short rest up to their charisma modifier). All this to say that I think they've done good work here, yea it's not perfect but the issues can very easily be homebrewed away- like it's as easy as: "oh you've had a short rest? Then add back these sorcery points".
lol, do you want the bigest joke? Jeremy said HIMSELF that innate sorcery was like the barbarian rage... and he made it work EXACTLY like the barbarian rage of 2014, the one that they made ure that your barbarian would ALWAY have one ready in combat so they gave the barbarian a free recharge of rage on initiative... They learn the leason with the barbarian, then they copied the flawed system and put it on the sorcerer and they realised it was like a barbarian rage but failed to see the flaw... lol
Sorcerer is always a fun class to balance given how close they are to wizards. You obviously want them to have as many spells as they can have, but too many and you can’t really give them many features or else they’re just wizards with more class features and a better casting ability. Personally I think they did a solid job of balancing giving sorcerer defining features without making it feel like they have 0 spell variety, but I get there are a few things they could have hit better on a few subclasses
It feels like given the direction of the martial classes, metamagic would’ve been a bonus action that doesn’t expend the resources as much. I like the mage rage, but a +2 would’ve been nice over a +1. Also it’s WILD that OF COURSE the caster gets a temporary boost that DOESN’T require or cut off concentration. Of course. Though I also just don’t think core features should have long rest limits (like rage and mage rage). Or at least kill those “if you have nothing left features” and replace them with “first use per short rest is free” or you have a “temporary resource” after each short rest.
Innate sorcery costs 2 sorcery points to recover, so... basically, you get 4 extra sorcery points at each level, but can only use them on sorcery incarnate, to not make the other sorcery point uses too powerful, such as spell slot creation Also, assuming wording changes, and assuming you get to use the 5th level feature once per day, you now have 1 extra sorc point per day at 5th level, 2 per day at 10th level, 3 per day at 15th level, and 4 per day at 20th level This change is actually very important, before, the sorcerer couldn't use all their points for fear of running out completely, but now you can fire off all your sorcery points initially, and then always have at least some left over in the rest of the day Granted, if your table gets only 1 rest per day half way through the day, you won't get to use this feature basically ever, as you should have used about half your points by halfway through the day, and the sorcerer was already balanced around this, like, they aren't just adding this as a way that sorcerer simply has infinite sorcery points, because sorcerers are not warlocks, they do not go back to full power on a short rest But, after a short rest, they will always have at least 1 sorcery point remaining starting at level 5 Back loaded features, all they do, is if you have 1 sorcery point remaining, you might as well spend the last one, At 20th level, if you have 4 remaining, just turn it into 2 1st level slots or a second level slot, easy Starting at level 10, after a short rest, you can *always* use sorcery incarnate Also, if you are level 10, you are about to take a short rest, and have 3 points left, you can just spend them to recover a 2nd level slot, then go back up to 2, effectively giving you a discount on the last few points of the day, granted at level 5 when you get this initially, if you have 2 sorc points before a short rest, your option isn't as good, but you can spend both on a 1st level slot, then get 1 back, This just gives extra mileage to those last few slots At level 20, you have 5 points remaining, spend 5 for a 3rd level slot, then get 4 back, again, just making sure those last few sorcery points stretch as far as humanly possible
You keep saying that a feature is bad without giving a reason why it’s bad. In fact, you repeatedly say you LIKE the specific tension eg where important resource choices have to be made. But then you just say it’s bad, with no reason given. That makes this video feel like a waste of time.
I never said it was bad and gave a few reasons for why I was underwhelmed by the reveal. The pinned comment gives much more detail if you wanna take a look at that :)
I'd pretty much ignore that 7th level feature Maybe there's a broken metamagic spell combo I'm missing but using 2 options at time doesn't seem worth it But I'd absolutely trade a second level slot for the sorcery points to re up innate sorcery That feature is very strong
Draconic dissapointed me simply because they didn't understand the fantasy of having Draconic powers. I wanted to become a dragon, like a wildshape or how poly spells work. Instead they just focused on giving us a summon.
Let Sorcerers turn into a Dragon whilst Druids can no longer turn into elementals would’ve been a crime (and it would’ve also been amazing). They seem to be moving away from some of the legacy material.
I think the designers are terrified that the players will use these 'regain x when you roll initiative features' to essentially get all their points back by fighting rats or something which is why they do the 'when you have none left' clause. I think it would be more elegant to instead say 'When you roll initiative you gain x temporary points, when combat ends any unspent temporary points are lost.' That way you can have the little boost to make sure you can use your feature without having to worry about problematic tables trying to refill points through pointless combat.
Firstly: I never bother watching the official D&D videos. I always wait for your videos to just explain it clearly. :D Secondly: Top tip for everyone, use the spell points variant rule from the DMG for sorcerers. It makes the sorcerer feel much different. It makes you more flexible, although you don't get as many spells L6 and above, but it's nonetheless amazing. Suddenly, it doesn't matter that much you don't have that many spells since you have a lot of flexibility when it comes to choosing which spells to cast. Some people combine it with sorcery points, but my group doesn't bother and it's still amazing.
The spell points variant is really cool and I am very hopeful that it makes its way into the new DMG too! Also thank you so much! That made my day :) I’m really glad you enjoy what I do!
@@InsightCheck I am pretty sure that if you buy the new DMG, and it has no remaining variant rules in it, you may add one to use in your next campaign.
My only wish about Sorcerer is maybe an additional Sorcery point every other level. I just always had the feeling that I wish I had a few more without needing to convert spellslots
still mad that subclass prgression is the same as 2014 other than all classes starting at level 3. When i last looked at a playtest all classes had the same progress and some had more so Bards, and Rogues felt like they had a subclass. 😠Just watched this to see that they are not going through with it is sad.
Well, if Sourcerous Restoration will only triggers with no points remaning, i think every optimizer Sorcerer will start their days by transforming every point into a spell slot just to gain some more.
I agree it could be better, but spending a 2 level slot for the extra rage it's not that bad. And at least it's easier for the sorcerer to burn their points for slots to recover some, but 1/5 level is silly small
I think that making the wings non-permanent makes the feature significantly less cool. It goes from being an innate power your character simply has to being an upgraded free casting of fly once in a while. Also not a fan of the "free summon spell" features, like.. If I wanna summon I'll summon. If you wanna give me a companion dragon, give me an actual companion. Don't tell me its a companion, only to just give me a temporary summon. I feel like they are just taking spells and pretending their are actual class features. I get it's concentration free, but the actual outcome isn't something new and unique. These features feel entirely focused on their impact in combat where having something temporary is not a big deal, but it significantly lessens the impact on your characters general identity when exploring the world.
Does innate sorcery apply to booming blade? If so, an Eldritch knight can use extra attack and use booming blade with advantage if he dips on sorcerer?
Yes. All spellcasters are "prepared" spellcasters now. No. The word "prepared spellcaster" has no meaning now. Because the spellcasting feature of each class is worded differently, but they all now use the phrase "Peepared Spells". Some, like the ranger, allow you to swap 1 spell out per long rest. Sorcerer and warlock allow you to swap 1 spell out per level up. They put How you change out your spells in a new section called "Changing Your Prepared Spells", which will let you know how your class Actually prepares their spells.
Why the hell would wotc put such inane restrictions on these features? If you have 1 SP left when you complete a short rest, you gain nothing. But if you have 0, you regain some? Or you can't spend to SP for Sorcery Incarnate unless you've used up all your uses? These are so needlessly stupid. Just make SI cost 2 SP _or_ one of your free uses. Just recover level/5 SP no matter what. FFS.
After looking over another RUclipsr covering Sorcerer changes, you kind of have to be smoking crack to not give the 2024 Sorcerer an S ranking. 😅😂😅 Me likey the 2024 Sorcerer. They kept Quicken Spell unchanged so that's great. Then you have Sorcerer Incarnate that ups all your Spell DCs by +1 AND you get Advantage on all your attack roll spells AND you can now use two metamagics on one spell... Distance + Heighten Blindness/Deafness = OP Twin + Heighten Banishment on two different targets = OP Heighten is cheaper (2 instead of 3 Sorc points) and it effects all saves afterwards. Ouch! OP You can literally stack Advantage + 1DC increase on a Hold Monster spell and that effect lasts the entire length of the spell... That's OP. And the last thing everyone is sleeping on is the buff to Subtle Spell. You can now cast any spell, as long as it doesn't have a listed cost for spell components that are consumed by the spell, without V,S AND material...WTF! Now you can Subtle Cast so many more spells that can't be countered with Counterspell. Sorcerer might be the new meta for casters in the new books. I'm definitely a fan.
Two words: Coffee lock. You can get around a lot of the issues with Sorc and Warlock multi-class unless they did something that stops the multiclass interactions. If they didnt this, combo is going to be great. To prove I dont hate everything you say, and the above is not a hate comment either just a way to address the issue raised, I agree with you on the "run out of X to regain" and i simply told my players to ignore any such restriction. Its a very very simple fix for those who think this is dumb. Apparently we do agree on one thing... I DONT take Jeremy's word that they ddnt wreck something in Clockwork or Aberrant mind...they have said in the past "we tweaked" and then proceeded to ruin a feature or subclass. So reserving judgement there. The wild magic table should have been modeled after the Barbarian table in that they should be benefits to the character, not negatives. I now a small subset of players like to mess with their party and/or their own characters like that but I think most just avoid the subclass and/or the feature. So....ya, my guess is that table needs to be redone if someone at my group wants to do it...I want the choas to be fun not frustrating for all involved....
The change is going to be the ability to switch out the Clockwork and Aberrant spells for other spells of specific schools. Which makes me sad, but it was an outlier ability in its function and power.
@@logancuster8035 I might not agree with all of chris;ie Trentmonk's, takes on rules and balance, BUT if he is saying that there were significant power decreases on features, I am willing to extend the benefit of the doubt....if its just the swapping of spells on the list, I kinda think that should probably never been a thing anyway, but I got the feeling it was more than that....
@@Chrjstheshadow I have one in one campaign and allow it in mine. I see no issue with it, its a legal combo....we just have some basic rules to keep it from being too broken...my game allows 2 short rests and 1 ong rest per 24 hr....so until Greter Restoration....its not a big deal.
@shadowmancer99 That's just the normal Sorlock. Coffee/Cocaine is the one abusing short rest mechanics during a Long Rest (AkA 8 short rests). You can do what you want but that's clearly not supported RAI and that was addressed by the developers. "No bro! It's not broken to have 10 5th level spells. It's RAW, bro!" As a Sorlock Main - Git git git out of here with that broken crap. Take the W on just regaining a bunch of Spell slots back on short rests too. I wouldn't allow multiple short rests during a long rest. Sorry, that's too slimy for me to endorse. 😂😅
Seems like this entire Chanel is just riding the wave of needing EVERYTHING to be bad. It’s all doom and gloom in this toxic online dnd community. Every one of your videos are just click baiting to the trending of saying “everything is wrong and I’ll tell you why”. If you think every aspect of this hobby is not good enough, why make content for it?
Because clicks and 💰 🤑 💸 💲 🪙😂 This dude thought Create Food and Water shouldn't be in the game because it trivializes dying from thirst & hunger. That takes away 1 way out of 1000s for DMs to kill their players and that's unacceptable. How many DnD parties starve to death? Who cares, spell bad! 😅😂
Of the 10 classes revealed so far, I have been very positive about 7 of them. The 3 that I wasn’t super positive on were: Sorcerer, Paladin, and Ranger. In all three cases I went out of my way to explain that I think the class is very good and much improved from what we had in 2014 but just had some questionable design choices. And I was also extremely positive about the revised stat blocks if you count that. The point of my discussions is not about “good/bad” or even power for that matter. It’s to provide a discussion about overall design. Something can both be very good and have weird designs: these are not mutually exclusive. If what you got from this video is “everything is wrong and I’ll tell you why” I’m not sure what to tell you. I’d encourage you to re watch to video and actually listen to what I’m saying. In no way do I think everything is wrong. I make content for the game because I love the game lol. Again, a person is fully capable of enjoying something and discussing it even if there are some criticisms. I love tons of things that aren’t perfect and to expect that everything you like is perfect is a bit silly. I enjoy thinking critically about things and actually discussing them. All the best.
Frustratingly, Sorcerer was supposed to be the Wizard, but with less paperwork. Now it looks like the Wizard, but with more math. Conversion rates, multiple resources, etc etc. I also don't like innate sorcery. Why not instead just give them more spells known, an easier way to regain sorcery points, and more expensive meta-magic options? Simpler fixes, fewer resources, more fun. But we can't always get what we want, and Sorcerer is probably still going to be my favorite class.
Huh? They got one source to power their spells. As for the other critiques: They did, they did, they did, and that's what your subclass features are for. Is spending 5 Points to bring up your Bastion of Law damage reduction Shield from Clockwork not expensive enough? You want a 15 Point meta magic spell that ×4s the damage? Meh... If anything I was just disappointed in how they presented the class. Why not talk about the metamagic changes and expanded spells Sorcs get beyond the Subclass additions?
Also, to be honest, you have to be more experienced to play Sorcs than Wizards....well. Why? Because as a Sorc you don't get to just write down every spell you come across and then switch them out during rests. You need to know your whole spell list and pick very wisely amongst a limited amount of spells to cover all the different scenarios you need to cover for that particular character. That's tough. You need to think about having more variety of damage spells or invest in the Transmute Metamagic feature or ignore all that and try to go for more control/buff options. It's little debates like that and a limited spell pool that makes playing a Sorcerer well harder. 😊
NOTE ON INNATE SORCERY:
I’ve had a lot of comments disagreeing with me but funnily enough I mostly agree with the disagreements.
Something I should have been more clear about is that I don’t think that Sorcerers should have tons of uses of Innate or have 100 Sorcery Points.
I should have been *much* more clear that I truly love the design they took with the new Sorcerer and just wish that they had gone even further with it. I would have loved to see more ways of using Innate Sorcery and ways that integrate with the subclass. Even if that means toning down what it currently does. This would really help give a unique identity to the class:
Right now, there aren’t really any mentions in the subclass of using Sorcery Points and none that take advantage of Innate Sorcery: as a result, the subclasses can potentially feel disconnected from the main class. On top of that though( it paints the design team into a bit of a corner. If they do decide at some point in the future that new subclasses WILL get to use SP or Innate Sorcery uses in some capacity, then the 4 PHB subclasses will likely feel a bit left behind. So because of this design choice, they effectively limit future subclass design.
Sorcerers are very powerful. Innate Sorcery is really cool. I just wish they explored it more.
Hopefully that clears some things up.
Rage gets bonuses from Barb subclasses, why doesn't this get bonusses from Sorc subclasses? Something like that, right?
I can maybe see what you're saying, but I guess the difference between you and me is that I was already content with just the playtest changes because Sorcerer is a full caster. It was arguably the weakest one sure, but the version of Innate Sorcery & other new features that we got is far more significant than what the others have gotten. A +1 to DC alone is one of the strongest things you can possibly give a caster for free.
For me, even way back when I first saw it Innate Sorcery automatically reminded me of Rage & I was immediately sold. Barbarian is my favorite class, and giving the Sorcerer a similar in vibe feature admittedly is enough for me to overlook some things. It being more limited though makes sense when again we're comparing a Full caster to a pure Martial. I've playtested both classes from the latest versions, and I was very satisfied with both in pretty much every way cause I had this mindset already.
You say that it is clunky, and while it may be a little, I believe people are disagreeing with because of how it compares to other classes. Ranger & Paladin were much less well received and it's no secret players do not like how they handled Smite & Favored Enemy. Even if Sorcerer is a little clunky, when compared to the half-casters it's as smooth as butter. Sorcerer doesn't have to concentrate on Incarnate like it did earlier in the playtest, Sorcerer doesn't have to use a bonus action every turn to keep using Innate Sorcery. A +1 to spell save DC will always be useful, meanwhile a d6 to damage is only going to get you so far on Ranger. Overall, I feel like for a Full Caster Sorcerer got a lot out of this when we're comparing it to other classes, but I can see how that's a bad way to look at it if we're dissatisfied with a lot of the classes overall.
I think they should have gone with 1 initial use of Innate and and make additional uses cost only 1 SP
This is a case of "Cut corners save time" by using what were acknowledged as good subclasses, more or less unchanged, they save time for areas that needed more work, I think you'll see more done on the subclasses that are in the inevitable spaltbooks.
Well you were wrong about them not changing sorcerous recovery "all that much". And they gave sorcerer's a way to recovery resources kinda like warlock does. I would take this video down. It's obsolete. Or post a video rectifying it.
Just from what Treantmonk and Nerd Emersion have said about the Clockwork and Aberrant subclasses I’m fairly confident the change is their ability to switch out the spells from their “Clock work spells” and “Aberrant Spells” list for options from other schools.
The way it’s being discussed the same change was made to both subclasses.
And besides access to an expanded spell list It’s the only feature that both of the subclasses share.
Yeah I’m positive they made changes to the spell list for both, I can totally see that.
While I suspect that is what the unnamed nerf was, it could also be that they reduced it to wizards spells or one school of magic, but most likely it is that you can no longer switch them out, which is lame.
Yes, this is very clearly what they did, and it is a *significant* nerf, but most players probably wont even notice it because they aren't optimisers
Honestly otherwise there is no reason to play dragonic or chaos sorcerer still, plus they added more spells known to base sorcerer anyway I believe
This is the first video im gonna have to respectfully disagree. Love all the changes and sorcerer is probably my go to spellcaster now. Still great video as always.
Not a problem with me :) to each their own! That’s the beauty of the game! I think my issue is that it’s always been one of my least favourite classes going into it and I was hoping for these updates to change my mind haha. So I was maybe a bit harder than I should have been.
Personally I just think they flubbed the Draconic Sorcerer's flavor. Its not about having a dragon pet, its about BEING a dragon. Its fine as a generic spellcaster of course but its a flavor fail unless you want to call the buddy your lil bro or something.
@@MeriliremI’m coming off the Druid top rope and crying foul. Give me a Treant, a Shambling Mound, a Tiger, or something at level 15. The Ranger can cast at level 1, so why not a Druid.
Wild Magic Sorcerer sounds, well, Wild, but I DO hope that there’s an actual unique spell list in that new chart.
I was expecting it feel like playing a Dragoon from Legends of Dragoon @@Merilirem
@@Merilirem I feel similarly about All paladins having find steed as a coral ability, pets in mountain combat has always been so strange in this game, and pets especially make combat drag on more. Why the hell does my draconic bloodline sorcerer just literally have a dragon
disagree on innate sorcery, two free usages before needing to use resources per long rest sounds perfectly fine for what is a power up ability that isn't outright necesary for the majority of the class to function (unlike barbarian's rage). That resource pool only deepens as you level up, so the downside of using said resources only decreases as time goes on. A super saiyan power up loses some of it's special oomf when you can just have it always active for free in every fight. By level 20 that resource issue practically no longer exists, because for the cost of 2 sorcery points (if already out of usages) you can now for 1 minute continually cast your spells with heightened spell (which would normally cost 2 SP for every use) for free.
This has come up a few times, I’ve addressed it in a pinned comment :)
I also mostly agree with you!
2 Sorc points for super spell rage? No bro! So limiting and expensive.
Meanwhile, my level 11 5e Sorlock be like...
"I spend two points to Quicken Eldritch Brrrrrrlast, and then follow up again with another Agonizing brrrrlast!"
Next round....repeat
Next round...repeat.
We can already manage our resources well enough in 5E, 2 sorc points for a continous feature and two free uses is PLENTY.
Like, sometimes I get the sense from these dudes that if WOTC gives you a resource, unless you can spam it for free for 5 encounters they aren't happy.
It's called....resource....management. learn it. Play smarter not harder. 😂😅😅
@@007ohboy The new edition is made for people that want to "win" like a video game. It is extremely player loaded to sell books. I'm very disappointed in most changes to classes.
@lucaspiresribeiro4293 😆 🤣 You're playing a game. It's just a video game with crappy graphics and fleshy brains running the coding.
Like 5E isn't about empowering players with cool abilities. Somethings in 5E were just a little too good....like Quivering Palm, multiple Stun strikes in a round, or the extreme Paladin smiting nerfs.
If anything this adds so much more flavor, is more customizable (Orc Sorcerer anyone!?) and even the spells have been cleaned up. The Suggestion Spell needs a huge rewrite with common examples. DnD 2024 all the way. Make me win, mommy! 😆 🤣
@@007ohboy It's so much different from a video game (no hate I love them) and I think it is very telling that you don't grasp it as so. Balance is a finicky thing, but breaking the game's math will limit this edition a lot. Not to mention that they did not fix very important issues from 5e, like the skill system and lack of an exploration gaming loop
My only real complaint so far with sorcerer is the dragon sorcerer capstone. Now don't get me wrong, I actually really like being able to summon a dragon for free and without concentration, it's very useful and can have neat flavoring if you do it right (projecting your own inner draconic power, summoning an echo of your draconic ancestor, or even just teleporting in a dragon sibling to come help out). But what I really want for draconic sorcerer is just the ability to finally turn into a dragon. It always irked me in 5E that sorcerers did not get true polymorph, meaning a draconic sorcerer could never become a full dragon while a wizard or bard could. I'd find it pretty interesting if the capstone allowed you a free usage of true polymorph but limited to only dragon monsters, or alternatively you can choose between casting true polymorph (limited to dragons) or summon dragon for free once per long rest. If true polymorph is finally added to the sorcerer spell list proper then I'll ultimately be fine with the capstone how it is, but if true polymorph isn't on the spell list it'll be pretty disapointing and make the draconic capstone feel like a huge missed opportunity.
Honestly I'm just relieved they didn't try that absolutely lazy "let's just slap a breath weapon onto it like we do with all the draconic subclasses and call it a day" BS they pulled with the UA
RE True Polymorph, I wouldn't be surprised if Sorcs do get it on their spell list now. It's pure conjecture, but my best guess is that they didn't get it before because WotC didn't want it Twinned. Now that they can no longer Twin spells like these, I don't see why they wouldn't get it since the Sorc's intentional gaps generally don't involve Transmutation.
I think Foresight had a similar issue, but for that one I'm curious if Extend Spell is still too much of a concern.
I think everyone forgets that Officially all content from 5e will be in 5.24e
This means things like the planar shards are in the game. Wildmagic sorcerers can use the surge table 5 times a turn.
Also, Mage Rage is an insane feature. It seems small, but look at it in other ways: 1 level gives Rogue a better way to use their gish cantrip builds, combining it with Heighten Spell makes Sorcerer the best lock down class in the game, and since it levels so effectively, it works to combo with things like the planar shards to make it the last balanced feature... well almost.
The least balanced thing is you can retoll wildmagic surges with heroic inspiration.
As a sorcerer main this was the fixes I want (except I would have liked an upgraded metamagic list at high levels. Examples: Widen spell in increase area of effect, dual cantrip to cast 2 cantrips with an action, ect)
Holy fluff... I completely forgot heroic inspiration can reroll wild magic xD
That is actually so funny, human chaos sorc go brrr
Widen spell is in overlord, Ainz used it to cast cry of the banshee, an anime exclusive spell that causes instant death in a 60ft cone, and then he used an archlich racial class ability to make it bypass thinks like deathward or instant death immunity, and the goal of all life is death to lower the cast time from a minute to an action, then he used widen magic, the old metamagics increased the slot level of the spell, so it basically turned (in D&D equivalents), a 1 minute cast 7th level 60ft cone save or instant death spell, into a level 9 1 round cast time (concentration until it finishes the casting at the start of your next turn) 120ft cone spell that causes just instant death bypassing all Resistances and immunities
I think it would be absolutely wild if just, utter nonsense like this was just allowed in D&D anymore, cause widen magic is literally from 3rd edition or 3.5 and they removed it because it is blatantly overpowered
I don’t mind the state of the Sorcerer. The 2014 Sorcerer is absolutely fantastic and this new version of the class is even stronger. Sure, Innate Sorcery is more limited than I’d like but it’s a powerful buff on a strong class, if it was too abundant it could easily have been overpowered.
I've been playtesting the UA Sorcerer up to level 14 for a few months now and I can say it's not as clunky as you may fear it to be.
The Inmate Sorcery transformation feels similar to the fighter's Action Surge. You use it when you want to go super saiyan and it feels soooo good- especially with Cantrips. The new sorcerer cantrip is especially powerful with this feature.
Sorcery points management feels relatively the same but the additional known spells had the biggest impact.
Sorcery Incarnate is an alright feature for those situations when you're in multiple combat encounters in a single day. I've only used it once or twice.
But to your point there wasn't a drastic overhaul of the sorcerer like to the Warlock. Just enhancements similar to the wizard.
Did they confirm if Sorcerous Burst is still in the book?
I don't remember it coming up in the sorcerer video, but either way I hope it did make it in.
I’ve been playtesting the sorcerer in a Curse of Strahd game and never had the thought cross my mind that I should save my Innate Sorcery for a later use, because we simply do not have several encounters per adventuring day. Even for parties that do have tons of encounters, I feel like you’ll know the best times to use the ability, unless you’re playing a super difficult game with many very tough fights per day.
One thing that I do think is not being mentioned nearly enough was the various cost reductions for features using sorcery points. Almost all Metamagic options cost 1 point, and only a few cost 2. They did mention the resistance feature in the Draconic sorcerer no longer costs points, but the Wild Magic feature Bend Luck also got a reduction for 2 points to 1.
One thing I think they did miss on is deciding to not give an expanded spell list to Wild Magic. Their explanation that the Wild Magic table is their expanded spell list doesn’t track to me, because expanded spells are always available for you to use (if you have spell slots, of course). There are so many chaos themed spells you could make a spell list from, and maybe if they cast a spell from that list, they have to roll for a wild magic surge with 2 or more d20s instead of 1.
I’m also a bit concerned about Tides of Chaos, because if you have Innate Sorcery active, you can effectively only use Tides of Chaos it on ability checks or saves. This makes it a bit out of your control to expend, and if you can’t expend it, you can’t regain it to cause a Wild Magic Surge.
So the sorcerer blog post on DnD beyond just dropped and sorcerous restoration now works where you can regain sorcerer points equal to half your sorcery points on a short rest once per day. I personally like this and effectively means by level 20 you would have 30 sorcerer points without exhausting your spell slots
So i don't agree with your assessment on the number of uses on Innate Sorcery. If it was more available, then it would feel like it HAS to be on.
By allowing two uses, you can use the first one "when you feel like it", perhaps if an fight looks tough, or if you decide you're going to spam attack roll cantrips this battle.
You still have your second use in your back pocket for a potential boss fight, night time ambush etc.
At 7th, you now just have more slots and things you can do with your sorcery points. If you are leaning into attack rolls, well now you can have more uses of Innate Sorcery if you like.
There are quite a few things in 5.24 that im not the biggest fan of, but I think they got this one spot on, because they didnt have a huge amount of room to buff the sorcerer.
Totally fair and to each their own :)
Something I probably should have been more clear on, that I’ve also mentioned in other comments, is that I don’t think they should have just said “here’s 100 uses or SP or whatever”. It would have had to come along with additional rebalancing of the feature itself and what Sorcery Points can do. I agree that it shouldn’t feel like it always has to be on but that can also be tackled in ways by reducing availability but increasing regeneration or tying regeneration to some other resource. All that said I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying here. I just think they could have done a bit more with the class.
By 7th level I was usually cannibalize my 2nd level slots for sorcery points anyways. Giving up 3, 2nd level slots to get to 5 uses of the new ability is not that bad. Still leaves you with 7 points for your 4, 1st level slots, 3, 3rd level slots, and 2, 4th level slots. If I'm right and they reduced the cost of meta magic abilities then I love this
They did reduce the cost for metamagic
At my table, we play with the Spell Point Variant rule from the DMG... This way, Spell Points can just be added to Sorcery Points, for one big, versatile, easy to track, resource. And if you can cast Sorcery Incarnate with Sorcery/Spell Points... It's equivalent to a first level spell... Pretty good for that price.
P.S. We also allow Everyone to use the -5/+10 from GWM and Sharpshooter with any weapon attack to help balance the Martial/Caster divide, which is enhanced by the added flexibility.
back in march when I first I first saw the sorcerer incarnate feature a friend pointed out to me that since you only have two meta magics, if one of them was something you could already combine then you couldn't use the sorcerer incarnate feature, and I came to the realization that there is also a problem with meta magics that some meta magics can't be combined because they are inherently contradictory. For example, twinned can not be combined with careful because there's no overlap on the venn diagram of AOE and twinnable spells.
I made a spreadsheet to check if this is a serious problem, and out of the 45 combinations of 2 meta magics, 19, can not benefit from sorcerer incarnate in any way what so ever. 2 can be used on rare archtypes of spells (such as elemental damage with a duration), 6 can be used on entire common archetypes of spells (such as aoe that is also damage) and only 18 can be combined in such a way where if it is possible to use one of your meta magics it's always possible to use the other.
For almost half, 42% of sorcerers to not have a functional 7th level feature feels very bad to me. and for a sorcerer to have only one possible combination of two meta magics kind of spits in the face of "on the fly flexibility" as well. Though the solution to both of these problems is to just have more access to different meta magics than that starved quantity of two. Maybe they'll do the first sorceror playtest of letting them prepare meta magics, or make you start with 3, but they'll probably just bring the sorcerer initiate feat to the phb and call it good
Very good video and analysis, but I disagree with you on giving more resources or uses to sorcerer points.
Sorcerer is a full caster, with a pretty long list of very good and strong spells, if you are giving them even more stuff to do and to choose you will:
1. Slow down the game, 'cause there's already metamagic, point conversion and magical effects from spells
2. Enlarge the gap between martials and casters, where martials gain lots of features, full casters are gaining lots of spells.
3. Create a gap with other casters, where the majority of them have few class features with limited effects (bardic inspiration, wild shape, channel divinity, arcane recovery...) and sorcerer would have plenty of more magic power, a lot of choice for spells, and even more features to exploit.
Finally, I think that at higher level you are gonna dump at least half your lower level spell slot to gain additional high level slots or a ton of sorcery points, so the problem persists only at lower levels, but they would be at the same level of other casters.
Yeah I mean I think I pretty much agree with you on all this. Something I probably should have been more clear about is that I don’t think they should have been like “just give them 100 points and call it a day” lol. It would be a delicate and intricate balance to ensure that things aren’t blown out way too far. They could tone down some of the options and even what something like Innate Sorcery does.
The point I was really trying to make was that I think they could have gone a bit more all out on the design than what seems a bit half finished to me.
@@InsightCheck Yep, I agree with you on that, we'll see when this sorcerer will be played by most of the players. Thank you for your good video and analysis!
Like I said before, I get the sense from some players that if DnD gives you a resource, they aren't happy with it unless you can spam it willy nilly. I don't know what game these people play.
I'm playing 5e right now with 4 wildly different Sorcerer builds and they can manage their spell slots and SPs rather well.
Sure, it sucks in the lower levels because...well....you suck at lower levels. That's how it's supposed to work.
Also, to those people complaining about not having enough exploitable resources, maybe try playing past 8th level and fully explore your character before you get bored and just reroll up a new low level character. Just a thought. 😂😅
I like the streamlining but even with Treantmonks conversion trick, I agree with you that they go too fast. I would homebrew to allow sorcerous restoration to divide by 4 or 3, and make the total SP equal to sorcerer level + CHA mod
I really want a revamped storm sorcerer
I’m a salty Druid simp. I’m glad you didn’t. Storm Sorcerers were amazing. I think Sorcerers are likely the best overall casting class. These changes seem to make Sorcerers LEAP ahead. Throw Storm Sorcery in there and it’s a wash.
Have you seen Treantmonk's hack of the new sorcerer? If the features are the same as the UA, the trick is to convert all your sorcery points to slots to take advantage of the features that give you extra when you don't have any. The design is to force players to use font of magic a lot more. As a sorcerer player myself, I have to admit that I rarely convert my points to slots and back again. We'll have to see 8/1 when the gag comes off TM and the other early reviewers.
Huh, so they Did change Sorcerous Restoration.
It now only works once per long rest. After a short rest, you can regain half your expended sorcery points.
Goodbye treantmonk hack (sort of), since you'll still want to convert any overflow points into spell slots befote you rest so you get the max value out of the restore.
To me it just feels a little clunky which is a shame as Sorcerer is my favourite class thematically.
The way I read it, the optimal thing to do is before you take a short rest use all your sorcery points to refill used spell slots. You then regain 1-4 SP which you then also immediately turn into spell slots so you have 0 when you roll initiative, and get the refill again. On your turn, you then convert spell slots back into SP so you have some to use. That way you constantly get the minor refill.
But as you say that feels like a “hack” not the intended way to use the feature. It’s forcing you to jump through unnecessary hoops when it could be so simple. I also highly doubt a new player is going to read those features and work out that convoluted hack.
I agree with IC, it feels like they’ve made the same errors they did in 2014 with other classes
And the capstone feels pretty underwhelming, given it’s a feature to help stretch your SP right at the point when you need to worry about that the least. I preferred the wish version or even just making innate sorcery a full on magical rage where you have magic resistance when it’s active (adv on saves & 1/2 damage) or fuse them so if you succeed a save vs a spell while it’s active you absorb some of the magic and regain SP equal to half the spells level or something. It’s a capstone that most people barley ever get to with a character, it should feel overpowered IMO
We gotta give this man 10k subs yall
Hahahah thanks :)
I fundamentally disagree about your description of Innate Sorcery and Sorcery Incarnate, the former is the main feature and the first 2 times you use it you gain an additional advantage if you'd get some good use out of a second metamagic. However the actual effect of the latter is that you can use some spare sorcery points to give you that DC increase or permanent advantage on spell attack rolls! It's a good synergy imo!
It’s great synergy and I mainly agree with you here!
What you’re mentioning has come up a few times and I have addressed it in the pinned comment!
I see your points. Sorcerers lack sorcery points at early levels.
I feel like this problem, as you said, self-resolves at around 10ish level. But since most campaigns don't start but rather end at that level, it's a bit of a problem. Generally speaking, D&D's balance is at an optimum from levels 5-10.
The feature that requires you to deplete all your sorcery points has likely been changed to remove that requirement, if the monk is anything to go by.
I would hope so but it did make it that way into the Druid sadly.
TBH you only get about 4 to 5 turns in the typical encounter on the high end. Not to mention after about 2 encounters you’re gonna get a short rest which will restore sorcery points. This is a crazy powerful ability and it’s important to not make it broken.
I feel like pact magic should use the variant spell points instead of spell slots. This way you could use lower level spells more often or burn through points faster with higher level spells.
Seems like a lot of people disagree with you on innate sorcery and I have to say I disagree too haha. I feel like it's very different than Pact Slots because being in the innate sorcery state isn't vital to the class. You can still be very effective without having advantage on attacks. Also, you can save one for the big bad and use the other one as desired.
I really like the feature because it solidifies Sorcerers as the blasters. I think this will probably make quickened spell the best meta magic by far since your cantrips will be so reliable. (Or if you have a barbarian dong trip attacks all the time then it'll be at least as reliable as before lol)
They do and that’s totally fine! I’ve got nothing against disagreement :)
I was probably a bit too unclear in the video. What I really meant was that I just wish they had taken the feature and what it can do even further and lean into it to truly give the class a unique identity. Even if that meant toning down what Innate Sorcery does. We don’t really see anything in the subclasses that makes use of Innate Sorcery or Sorcery Points and that just feels like a missed opportunity.
The feature itself is really good and very powerful. It’s just some nitpicking of design elements for me, that’s all.
@@InsightCheck makes sense! Thanks for the run down. Always love the videos!
I enjoy the changes that they've made to the sorcerer. The sorcery point pool issue is a thing that i always homebrew anyway where i usually have the sorcerer regain a d6 of metamagic points on a short rest. This stacks if they have a bloodwell vial which restores 5 on the first sort rest (except i allow the restoration at every short rest up to their charisma modifier).
All this to say that I think they've done good work here, yea it's not perfect but the issues can very easily be homebrewed away- like it's as easy as: "oh you've had a short rest? Then add back these sorcery points".
Sorcerous Restoration = Spell Slots via Font of Magic Conversion
lol, do you want the bigest joke? Jeremy said HIMSELF that innate sorcery was like the barbarian rage... and he made it work EXACTLY like the barbarian rage of 2014, the one that they made ure that your barbarian would ALWAY have one ready in combat so they gave the barbarian a free recharge of rage on initiative...
They learn the leason with the barbarian, then they copied the flawed system and put it on the sorcerer and they realised it was like a barbarian rage but failed to see the flaw... lol
Sorcerer is always a fun class to balance given how close they are to wizards. You obviously want them to have as many spells as they can have, but too many and you can’t really give them many features or else they’re just wizards with more class features and a better casting ability. Personally I think they did a solid job of balancing giving sorcerer defining features without making it feel like they have 0 spell variety, but I get there are a few things they could have hit better on a few subclasses
It feels like given the direction of the martial classes, metamagic would’ve been a bonus action that doesn’t expend the resources as much. I like the mage rage, but a +2 would’ve been nice over a +1. Also it’s WILD that OF COURSE the caster gets a temporary boost that DOESN’T require or cut off concentration. Of course.
Though I also just don’t think core features should have long rest limits (like rage and mage rage). Or at least kill those “if you have nothing left features” and replace them with “first use per short rest is free” or you have a “temporary resource” after each short rest.
Innate sorcery costs 2 sorcery points to recover, so... basically, you get 4 extra sorcery points at each level, but can only use them on sorcery incarnate, to not make the other sorcery point uses too powerful, such as spell slot creation
Also, assuming wording changes, and assuming you get to use the 5th level feature once per day, you now have 1 extra sorc point per day at 5th level, 2 per day at 10th level, 3 per day at 15th level, and 4 per day at 20th level
This change is actually very important, before, the sorcerer couldn't use all their points for fear of running out completely, but now you can fire off all your sorcery points initially, and then always have at least some left over in the rest of the day
Granted, if your table gets only 1 rest per day half way through the day, you won't get to use this feature basically ever, as you should have used about half your points by halfway through the day, and the sorcerer was already balanced around this, like, they aren't just adding this as a way that sorcerer simply has infinite sorcery points, because sorcerers are not warlocks, they do not go back to full power on a short rest
But, after a short rest, they will always have at least 1 sorcery point remaining starting at level 5
Back loaded features, all they do, is if you have 1 sorcery point remaining, you might as well spend the last one,
At 20th level, if you have 4 remaining, just turn it into 2 1st level slots or a second level slot, easy
Starting at level 10, after a short rest, you can *always* use sorcery incarnate
Also, if you are level 10, you are about to take a short rest, and have 3 points left, you can just spend them to recover a 2nd level slot, then go back up to 2, effectively giving you a discount on the last few points of the day, granted at level 5 when you get this initially, if you have 2 sorc points before a short rest, your option isn't as good, but you can spend both on a 1st level slot, then get 1 back,
This just gives extra mileage to those last few slots
At level 20, you have 5 points remaining, spend 5 for a 3rd level slot, then get 4 back, again, just making sure those last few sorcery points stretch as far as humanly possible
I'm enjoying your insights on 2024 updates. Your analysis is always professional and insightful. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoy it :)
Hey, like the name of the channel! Lol
You keep saying that a feature is bad without giving a reason why it’s bad. In fact, you repeatedly say you LIKE the specific tension eg where important resource choices have to be made. But then you just say it’s bad, with no reason given. That makes this video feel like a waste of time.
I never said it was bad and gave a few reasons for why I was underwhelmed by the reveal. The pinned comment gives much more detail if you wanna take a look at that :)
I'd pretty much ignore that 7th level feature
Maybe there's a broken metamagic spell combo I'm missing but using 2 options at time doesn't seem worth it
But I'd absolutely trade a second level slot for the sorcery points to re up innate sorcery
That feature is very strong
Draconic dissapointed me simply because they didn't understand the fantasy of having Draconic powers. I wanted to become a dragon, like a wildshape or how poly spells work. Instead they just focused on giving us a summon.
Let Sorcerers turn into a Dragon whilst Druids can no longer turn into elementals would’ve been a crime (and it would’ve also been amazing).
They seem to be moving away from some of the legacy material.
Annoyed that we get to "summon" a dragon instead of BE one.
Love your channel dude, thanks for the great content.
I think the designers are terrified that the players will use these 'regain x when you roll initiative features' to essentially get all their points back by fighting rats or something which is why they do the 'when you have none left' clause. I think it would be more elegant to instead say 'When you roll initiative you gain x temporary points, when combat ends any unspent temporary points are lost.' That way you can have the little boost to make sure you can use your feature without having to worry about problematic tables trying to refill points through pointless combat.
Home rule that Sorcery incarnate gets another use at 10th level for 3 total or at 7th or 15th level for 4 uses. JC compared it to rage make it so
Firstly: I never bother watching the official D&D videos. I always wait for your videos to just explain it clearly. :D
Secondly: Top tip for everyone, use the spell points variant rule from the DMG for sorcerers. It makes the sorcerer feel much different. It makes you more flexible, although you don't get as many spells L6 and above, but it's nonetheless amazing. Suddenly, it doesn't matter that much you don't have that many spells since you have a lot of flexibility when it comes to choosing which spells to cast. Some people combine it with sorcery points, but my group doesn't bother and it's still amazing.
The spell points variant is really cool and I am very hopeful that it makes its way into the new DMG too!
Also thank you so much! That made my day :) I’m really glad you enjoy what I do!
@@InsightCheck I am pretty sure that if you buy the new DMG, and it has no remaining variant rules in it, you may add one to use in your next campaign.
I have always allowed the magic point variant for sorcerers only, it's so so great for them
The oficial videos suck 🤝
My only wish about Sorcerer is maybe an additional Sorcery point every other level. I just always had the feeling that I wish I had a few more without needing to convert spellslots
still mad that subclass prgression is the same as 2014 other than all classes starting at level 3. When i last looked at a playtest all classes had the same progress and some had more so Bards, and Rogues felt like they had a subclass. 😠Just watched this to see that they are not going through with it is sad.
Well, if Sourcerous Restoration will only triggers with no points remaning, i think every optimizer Sorcerer will start their days by transforming every point into a spell slot just to gain some more.
I wish they improve divine soul or shadow sorc. Also, would love to see more spells for sorc, similar to wizard, cleric, and Druid.
They didn't mention whether they are keeping the buff where you can turn spell slots into points as a free action
I may have an unpopular opinion but I liked that sorcerers had a unique cantrip in One D&D. Just feels like fun flavour.
I agree it could be better, but spending a 2 level slot for the extra rage it's not that bad. And at least it's easier for the sorcerer to burn their points for slots to recover some, but 1/5 level is silly small
Sorcerer is a great class… to multiclass your Warlock in. 3 level of draconic sorcery and 9 of Warlock and you got a top tier build.
After seeing the Cleric, it seems like Ranger is only one WotC continues to do dirty in both player's handbooks.
I will forever stand by that sorecery points are the WORST way to give sorcerers metamagic and they should have rethought the whole thing.
As a Sorcerer main...
What you talking about, Louis?
I kill as a Sorcerer. Kill Mages that is. Boom! 💥 🔥 🪄 🔮
Subtle.....Counterspell! ✨️
I think the sorcerer is fine. Except for wild magic, of course.
Friends don't let friends play Wild Magic Sorcerers.
I think that making the wings non-permanent makes the feature significantly less cool. It goes from being an innate power your character simply has to being an upgraded free casting of fly once in a while.
Also not a fan of the "free summon spell" features, like.. If I wanna summon I'll summon. If you wanna give me a companion dragon, give me an actual companion. Don't tell me its a companion, only to just give me a temporary summon. I feel like they are just taking spells and pretending their are actual class features. I get it's concentration free, but the actual outcome isn't something new and unique.
These features feel entirely focused on their impact in combat where having something temporary is not a big deal, but it significantly lessens the impact on your characters general identity when exploring the world.
The reveal was very short on details. Either they skipped all the middle level abilities for wild sorcerer or they get nothing.
Does innate sorcery apply to booming blade?
If so, an Eldritch knight can use extra attack and use booming blade with advantage if he dips on sorcerer?
Don't think so, it's not the cantrip that's making the attack, it's the weapon
Weirdly, Sayans, despite being very Martial, feel like Sorcerers to me.
Druids just got more wildshapes then sorcerer got the innate sorcery it’s like they’re an edition late or something
This new Sorcerer is Tops.
Is it just me or does innate sorcery sound like a discount version of DC20 sorcerer’s spell break?
Are all spellcasters still preparation spellcasters?
Yes. All spellcasters are "prepared" spellcasters now.
No. The word "prepared spellcaster" has no meaning now. Because the spellcasting feature of each class is worded differently, but they all now use the phrase "Peepared Spells". Some, like the ranger, allow you to swap 1 spell out per long rest. Sorcerer and warlock allow you to swap 1 spell out per level up.
They put How you change out your spells in a new section called "Changing Your Prepared Spells", which will let you know how your class Actually prepares their spells.
Why the hell would wotc put such inane restrictions on these features? If you have 1 SP left when you complete a short rest, you gain nothing. But if you have 0, you regain some? Or you can't spend to SP for Sorcery Incarnate unless you've used up all your uses? These are so needlessly stupid. Just make SI cost 2 SP _or_ one of your free uses. Just recover level/5 SP no matter what. FFS.
I think the problem with the sorcerer is in his subclasses… but the class, its good
Agreed.
This feels to me like more evidence that 5.5 was rushed to meet the 2024 deadline that they’re already missing with that monster manual
After looking over another RUclipsr covering Sorcerer changes, you kind of have to be smoking crack to not give the 2024 Sorcerer an S ranking. 😅😂😅
Me likey the 2024 Sorcerer.
They kept Quicken Spell unchanged so that's great.
Then you have Sorcerer Incarnate that ups all your Spell DCs by +1 AND you get Advantage on all your attack roll spells AND you can now use two metamagics on one spell...
Distance + Heighten Blindness/Deafness = OP
Twin + Heighten Banishment on two different targets = OP
Heighten is cheaper (2 instead of 3 Sorc points) and it effects all saves afterwards. Ouch! OP
You can literally stack Advantage + 1DC increase on a Hold Monster spell and that effect lasts the entire length of the spell... That's OP.
And the last thing everyone is sleeping on is the buff to Subtle Spell. You can now cast any spell, as long as it doesn't have a listed cost for spell components that are consumed by the spell, without V,S AND material...WTF! Now you can Subtle Cast so many more spells that can't be countered with Counterspell.
Sorcerer might be the new meta for casters in the new books. I'm definitely a fan.
2024 is the era of flying mounts
Draconic Sorcerer should be centered around polymorphing into a dragon template. Anything else is indefensible.
Two words: Coffee lock. You can get around a lot of the issues with Sorc and Warlock multi-class unless they did something that stops the multiclass interactions. If they didnt this, combo is going to be great.
To prove I dont hate everything you say, and the above is not a hate comment either just a way to address the issue raised, I agree with you on the "run out of X to regain" and i simply told my players to ignore any such restriction. Its a very very simple fix for those who think this is dumb. Apparently we do agree on one thing...
I DONT take Jeremy's word that they ddnt wreck something in Clockwork or Aberrant mind...they have said in the past "we tweaked" and then proceeded to ruin a feature or subclass. So reserving judgement there.
The wild magic table should have been modeled after the Barbarian table in that they should be benefits to the character, not negatives. I now a small subset of players like to mess with their party and/or their own characters like that but I think most just avoid the subclass and/or the feature. So....ya, my guess is that table needs to be redone if someone at my group wants to do it...I want the choas to be fun not frustrating for all involved....
The change is going to be the ability to switch out the Clockwork and Aberrant spells for other spells of specific schools.
Which makes me sad, but it was an outlier ability in its function and power.
@@logancuster8035 I might not agree with all of chris;ie Trentmonk's, takes on rules and balance, BUT if he is saying that there were significant power decreases on features, I am willing to extend the benefit of the doubt....if its just the swapping of spells on the list, I kinda think that should probably never been a thing anyway, but I got the feeling it was more than that....
Coffeelock is a concept that works on paper but I have yet to see a DM so RaW pilled they’d actually allow it
@@Chrjstheshadow I have one in one campaign and allow it in mine. I see no issue with it, its a legal combo....we just have some basic rules to keep it from being too broken...my game allows 2 short rests and 1 ong rest per 24 hr....so until Greter Restoration....its not a big deal.
@shadowmancer99 That's just the normal Sorlock. Coffee/Cocaine is the one abusing short rest mechanics during a Long Rest (AkA 8 short rests). You can do what you want but that's clearly not supported RAI and that was addressed by the developers.
"No bro! It's not broken to have 10 5th level spells. It's RAW, bro!"
As a Sorlock Main - Git git git out of here with that broken crap. Take the W on just regaining a bunch of Spell slots back on short rests too. I wouldn't allow multiple short rests during a long rest. Sorry, that's too slimy for me to endorse. 😂😅
Seems like this entire Chanel is just riding the wave of needing EVERYTHING to be bad. It’s all doom and gloom in this toxic online dnd community. Every one of your videos are just click baiting to the trending of saying “everything is wrong and I’ll tell you why”. If you think every aspect of this hobby is not good enough, why make content for it?
Because clicks and 💰 🤑 💸 💲 🪙😂
This dude thought Create Food and Water shouldn't be in the game because it trivializes dying from thirst & hunger. That takes away 1 way out of 1000s for DMs to kill their players and that's unacceptable. How many DnD parties starve to death? Who cares, spell bad! 😅😂
Of the 10 classes revealed so far, I have been very positive about 7 of them. The 3 that I wasn’t super positive on were: Sorcerer, Paladin, and Ranger. In all three cases I went out of my way to explain that I think the class is very good and much improved from what we had in 2014 but just had some questionable design choices. And I was also extremely positive about the revised stat blocks if you count that.
The point of my discussions is not about “good/bad” or even power for that matter. It’s to provide a discussion about overall design. Something can both be very good and have weird designs: these are not mutually exclusive.
If what you got from this video is “everything is wrong and I’ll tell you why” I’m not sure what to tell you. I’d encourage you to re watch to video and actually listen to what I’m saying. In no way do I think everything is wrong. I make content for the game because I love the game lol. Again, a person is fully capable of enjoying something and discussing it even if there are some criticisms. I love tons of things that aren’t perfect and to expect that everything you like is perfect is a bit silly. I enjoy thinking critically about things and actually discussing them.
All the best.
Frustratingly, Sorcerer was supposed to be the Wizard, but with less paperwork. Now it looks like the Wizard, but with more math. Conversion rates, multiple resources, etc etc. I also don't like innate sorcery. Why not instead just give them more spells known, an easier way to regain sorcery points, and more expensive meta-magic options? Simpler fixes, fewer resources, more fun. But we can't always get what we want, and Sorcerer is probably still going to be my favorite class.
Huh? They got one source to power their spells. As for the other critiques:
They did, they did, they did, and that's what your subclass features are for. Is spending 5 Points to bring up your Bastion of Law damage reduction Shield from Clockwork not expensive enough? You want a 15 Point meta magic spell that ×4s the damage? Meh...
If anything I was just disappointed in how they presented the class. Why not talk about the metamagic changes and expanded spells Sorcs get beyond the Subclass additions?
Also, to be honest, you have to be more experienced to play Sorcs than Wizards....well.
Why? Because as a Sorc you don't get to just write down every spell you come across and then switch them out during rests. You need to know your whole spell list and pick very wisely amongst a limited amount of spells to cover all the different scenarios you need to cover for that particular character. That's tough. You need to think about having more variety of damage spells or invest in the Transmute Metamagic feature or ignore all that and try to go for more control/buff options. It's little debates like that and a limited spell pool that makes playing a Sorcerer well harder. 😊
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