Does it ever go perfect? Yes, always. I've never: Busted my knuckles Been burned by touching something hot. Stripped a bolt. Cross threaded a nut. Cross threaded a bolt. Got the wrong part(s). Got the wrong parts again. Lost tools. Broke tools. Bought the wrong tool. Burrowed the wrong tool. Made the wrong tool work anyway. Performed a basic repair only to find out something mysteriously went wrong with a completely unrelated part. Had to redo a basic job (mostly brakes). Spilled any one of about 2 dozen fluids. Broke drill bits. Broke taps. Broke a drill bit drilling out a broken tap. Got dirt in my eyes. Got rust in my eyes. Got any number of over a dozen fluids in my eyes. Got metal in my eyes. Flashed my eyes with a welder. Never once. ;)
I would buy that t shirt. And I hate buying t shirts! Probably buy like 10 of em if they're a durable material that will withstand those aforementioned things that we all have definitely never done!
I have done all the the above, plus changed a tire and had the bottle jack loose pressure and the car come down on my fingers... thank god the spare was also flat and save my fingers from being broken. also getting ready to put the carburetor back on and I dropped a wing nut down the intake, past the intake valve and down in the the cylinder.... after replacing a blown head gasket. had to start all over again. and my personal favorite, showing off by doing a burn out after replacing a broken u-joint, only to break another u-joint.
@@wakjob961 You should look up the videos of the guys in Argentina racing the same engine. Big lumpy cams, triple weber carbs, straight pipes out the side turning 8000 rpm. The only difference between their engines and ours is they have a removable intake manifold. Wicked little engine.
i love inline 6's... built a 194 chevy in 1974, 60 milled head, w/202 & 194 valves and v8 springs with a TRW high lift cam (>600 lift) headers. over 250 hp. sold the chevy II (1967 sedan) to a local super stock racer. He ran so fast he had to cage the car... all done with my engine.
I love to see you simply put an HEI distributor on this motor then redo the tests. When I switched to an HEI it seemed like it made a bigger difference than doing the intake and adding a 4 barrel. Of course the intake and carb will support all the other upgrades, but in stock form, the better ignition was a huge upgrade. I’m currently building a 292 and can’t wait to see how this series turns out.
A simple switch to an HEI distributor will get you more horsepower and smoothing running. I never thought it made that much of a difference until I replaced the points distributor on my Chevy 250 6 cyl. Plus with HEI you get longer dwell and aren't limited by point bounce, etc.😉
I'm an amc 258 guy so I'm loving this series of test you're doing. I do think you need to get real with cam changes and a head mill to get at least 9.5 compression. Also on the last test you turned the carburetor. I've had issues with the vacuum signal being stronger on the inboard primary. I personally run a offenhauser intake, Holley 600, voodoo cam and Rhoads lifters with 10.2 compression. Don't know about horsepower but my 3200 pound rambler runs 13.9 with 3.54 gears. Please follow through with all the 292 testing. You are doing testing we could never afford to. I believe it's results are accurate for all American six cylinder engines with intake and exhaust ports on the same side. Thanks bro.
Really hope you finish this test one day. I'm looking to build a 292 for my C10 and this series has been really helpful and I feel like this intake test, especially the offy with double 2 barrels and turbo would be interesting to see
Stock points can not stand up to more power on the 6. I talked to Jack Clifford about running the carb sideways, symmetrical, on his intake. He said it flowed better straight, not how you ran. Lump ports -big cam-compression-1/8” over bore -yes! 4” bore! Should =400hp! Sissell/Kirby 12 port head =600 hp! Dick Bertolucci pushed 4o% Nitro for 1200 hp. Still holds record at Sacramento Raceway.
@@andrebcr I suspected that is where a webered set up would come from. Compression, porting, valves and a healthy cam would be needed first. And even then because of the stroke about 6000 rpm and it would be all over. Though probably as much as 350hp real. Or 500 in the pub!
I can't wait to see these intake combos compared on the modified engine - compression, cam and head, but having said that, it's been great to see how they all work on the stocker, as it'd be rare to see someone take such a path, particularly with the 'wilder' 4bbl variants. Loving this!!!
Ballast resistor is needed..... I believe the old GM with points ignition vehicles used a resistor (either ballast or resistor wire) to reduce the "electrical load" seen by the points. They "started" with the full 12+ volts going to the coil via a bypass circuit originating at the starter solenoid. Once running, they ran through the ballast resistor, reducing the voltage to the positive side of the coil. Full 12 volts full time = very reduced points life. Why do I know such useless info? I started hot rodding back in the "dual point ignition in my 370hp LT-1" era. Looking forward to that old 292 making ~ 500 lbs ft and at least 370hp @ below 5000rpm with some old school dual carb boost. Now let us all bow our heads and pray for really low run temps, good race gas, strength for the worn out ring lands in those ancient cast pistons, and strength for the weak ass, 6.760 inch long, SBC looking con-rods in that 6 lunged dinosaurs. LOL
@@richardholdener1727 are you sure your not confusing the condenser with the ballast resistor? The ballast resistor is usually a rectangular white porcelain block with a terminal on each end. Usually not inside the cap, either.
@@richardholdener1727 if you are using the points and condenser to trigger an MSD box the points should last forever. Unless they are already compromised. You can sand them and bring them back to life. Emory board can work wonders.
Hey Richard , Thanks for giving us what you had on that stocker 292 , hope you are able to finish up soon like you had planned . Too bad you run out of time , good stuff man !! Thanks Dan Fager
No ballast resistor ......points will be toast sooner or later. Probably sooner, if you are using stock setup instead of MSD white wire trigger input. Great 6 banger series, loving it.
Son of a gun, sometimes the smallest, cheapest component can through a wrench into the best laid plans. Glad you figured out what the problem was and in the future,we will be able to watch more combinations on this big six. Keep up the good work.👍
I remember when i was an apprentice and had a holden 173 (basically baby version of this engine) and changed to a HEI distributor and it made a huge difference. And no points to wear out!
By god you`re honest. It`s refreshing. I enjoy your videos very much, I don`t have access to a dyno any more so I watch yours for any information I can get. I`d really like to see how you map some of those fuel injection parameters some day
I'm one of those "other guys" too. Building a 230 Chevy right now, doing extensive head work with upsizing the valves, lump porting the intakes, springs to match the cam and bolting on an Offy with a Holley 600. Any idiot with a credit card can do an LS swap.
Nuevo seguidor. Tengo una camioneta GMC HIGH SIERRA 84' motor 250 en linea, yo quiero hacer la conversión a 292, transmisión 700r4. Me gustan tus vídeos. Gracias por tus consejos. ❤
Oh man, you had me going. I thought the little 292 blew up lol. Glad to to hear it's just the points. Your right s@#t happens all the time working on cars. Thanks for the test Richard.
I think a HEI is needed. The spark plugs we get now are resistor plugs. and points ignition simply doesnt have enough poop in its pants to fire a resistor type spark plug at high RPM. The increased air flow is blowing the spark out like the wind blows the flame on a candle out. Ive ran a Offy 4 bbl intake with hedders and a HEI on a 250 engine in a 66 GMC pickup. It was great except for the lack of exhaust heat on the intake in colder weather. I got carb icing.
Love that you show the failures- great video. Did I ever tell you about the time I got my 4cylinder, 5valve, DOHC fuel injected engine all set up and ready to go on the dyno, but it wouldn't start? They're like that when you forget to bolt the internal trigger wheel to the crankshaft. Never been so embarrassed.
Yea, please don’t abandon the 292. Even tho I don’t have one, I am still interested in knowing how this engine performs. Maybe install a electronic ignition, fuel injection, more turbo stuff. Very interesting how an older engine that has been modernized, can make more reliable power in today’s world.
Just keep doing what ur doing and don’t worry about the content! This is real world stuff and coming along for the journey with wins and fails is all part of the fun 👍
You probably aren't running it long enough to burn the points, but, IIRC, the original ign. wire from the switch to the coil had enough resistance to limit peak current through the points and coil. The points don't last long with a straight feed from the battery. I once installed a ballast resistor on one of these engines used in a boat to remedy the problem. Thanks for taking all time and trouble.
Since you're a Ford guy and I'm a Chevy mechanic and worked at three dealerships I will tell you something about the old points.. . You have to hit with a dwell meter a perfect 31° of dwell... To maximize the blast of a Chevy coil now I imagine that it's probably the same for just about any coil because that 31° is hyper important so when you reset the points on that thing make sure that you hit it at 31 and you'll get the best ignition of the mixture that you can possibly achieve..
Hey Richard, really enjoyed the 292 testing! Please keep this project rolling. Looking with interest, as I'm planning to rebuild my 292 shortly and throw on a few power adding mods while I'm at it.
When you get it running again, would be very interesting to install very long runner intake similar to the Mercedes-Benz 300 SL from the 1950's. That 3.0 liter straight 6 was rated at 215 HP and known for great torque. Keep up the great work.
Put a Pertronix Ignitor in or HEI from mid-ish 70s till the end of production. It's one less thing you need to worry about. They don't need the resistive wire that points need to keep from premature wear.
Lindsay McPherson : Um, totally different engine block and heads with startling similarities. Not one part is common. The Vauxhall 3.3, Opel-Bitter 2.5/2.8/3.0/3.6/3.9 the Holden 149- 202, any of the Chev sixes ..nothing in common. Bore spacings on the Uk and Europeans, 4.125, Holdens, 4.08.Chev, 4.40. The Holden is a Bonsai GM six, but everything is different. Theres more similarity in a 250 Ford six...it shared the 4.08 bore spacing. Because Holden copied it....
It's so sad to not see this hit the 5252 marker. It's like a diesel. Love these old engines from before my time. Head and cam!!! Head and cam!!! If money permits.
The 292s have a really long stroke and a really long crank. You have to spend a lot of money to get them to live above 5K. But you can make a lot down low. On another channel they got one with a stock short block except for hypereutectic pistons to 372 HP and 510 TQ all under 5K with 10.5 lbs of boost. He's getting cams and a lump port head from 12bolt.com
The 74 or 75 and later inline 6 Chevy's do have HEI distributors. The 199 through 292 all use the same distributor so fine a 250 they are super common.
Lol, yep, goes wrong alot. I have a Jeep 4.0, Clifford Intake, Holley 390 4150 and copper gasket. Slapped it all together, chased my own tail. Though the Holley had issues tuning, etc. Took intake off and ports weeble/wobbled on my granite. Called Clifford, said it's normal, use a Felpro gasket. Lol. WTH? I used cork, but now going to flatten it and make a flange. It never goes perfect, lol.
What is like to see is like a basic head refresh. Put a healthy deck on it to get the compression up a little, valve job and Springs, machine the spring seats while your in there. Then test again. Then a port an polish and retest.
I once fought a cracked fuse for days. Tested good, looked good (without proper backlighting) but wouldn't pass enough voltage for the park brake solenoid on the dozer. It happens. Sometimes the simplest things can gut-punch us. No worries!
Richard..!!..my Good Sir..!!!. 1st, I LOVE YOUR WORK MAN….!!🫶it!!.. …(Especially This Series). 2nd, I can not find the final intake/turbo/shootout video…Can you PLEASE HELP & direct me to it/them?🙏😗🙏…..(I know you had to have finished the 292’ series by now) Surely.?, tell me it’s so..😬..Tell Meee!!! 🙏 Thanks, Brando
When I lived in South Africa in the 1980’s... Because I’m a gear head...I noticed everything automotive, when perhaps I should have been more aware of the history being made in front of my very eyes (I was in my early 20’s...that’s my excuse). But instead...one of the automotive details I clearly remember was the 292 insignia on virtually all the grills of the right hand drive mid-70’s to early 80’s era Chevy pickup trucks ( note: no one drove pick-up trucks there... they were only used by businesses) Yet, At home here in Michigan ( 30 miles from my house, where Chevy trucks are built). All the Chevy truck in that era had 350, 400, or 454 grill insignias... never ever 292...Never! So....when I saw this vid. It brlriught me back to Johannesburg
The old stove bolts are nice ! You can replace the lifters without removing the cyl head - you can upfit a HEI dist from a 75 chevy nova ! I would make a tuned port style intake up and over the valve cover for heatsake and turbo it ! My dads 68 ran like a sewing machine ! Thanks for your time effort and educational videos ! Even i learned someting new and o share my knowledge a lil heren there !
I would say everything goes perfectly about 50 percent of the time. The other 50% of the time a lot of cuss words are used and tools get tossed around my shop.
Richard, you're killing me ! 😭 This lump needs an HEI, AT A MINIMUM. Points suck ass. It's 2020, for Pete's sake ! 😞 Selfish Bitching aside, Thanks for all your hard work ! Looking forward to a better & more complete test with a bit cleaner engine ! 😎👍
I have an atk 292 Moderate cam. Hydraulic lifters. Ported and decked head. Offenhouser intake. Holley sniper. Hooked headers. Custom exhaust, Borla x muffler. 280 hp 400 ft lbs of torque
This is the Big Brother to our ever popular 202ci we got over here in Australia. Never seen the Carby mounted across the Manifold before, our 4BRL Manifolds mount the same as the PES. Will go down the Rabbit Hole looking for Boosted Runs!
Richard, you know as well as i do, when everything works out perfect the first time, something is wrong. Thats when i go back and double check everything. My last name is Murphy, what can happen will. Nice work, keep on keeping on
Evening Richard 😇 thanks for all the hard work and as always another great video I really appreciate it. I was thinking while you're going to be redoing everything how about stepping up a little bit and swapping out the points for an inexpensive electronic upgrade to something like a pertronix ignitor box instead of running a new set of points?. It's cheap reliable and efficient and should add a little more and the game's Department across the board?
You're preachin it. Got the rocker studs and poly locks swapped out, valves lashed then I had an o-ring for one of the injectors just start gushing fuel out. I had one hole that wasn't firing so I'm still working through that. Gotta get a temp gun to see if it's going or not. After all that, I still have a miss. On to the HEI module and coil I guess.
I believe Edelbrock made an SP2P Intake, only good for torque and mileage. Extremely low RPM manifold. Not worth testing IMO. The Offy always made more low end torque on all my 250 engines, the runners are small like stock Cliffords have huge runners and gives a weak signal to the carb. Three Side draft Weber DCOE’s made the most torque out of all the combos I have ever tested with different carbs and different intakes. New points will work fine for the rest of the testing, but an HEI gives you a bit more output. Thx again Rich for these videos!
On my projects , I've gotten there to start tinkering and grabbed a wrench first thing and it flew out of my hands , Butterfingers! That right there is an omen folks, set the wrench down and walk away because it's only gonna get worse if you keep at it. Stripped and snapped bolt heads and mangled threads are in your future if you don't walk away and come back later.
If you get a chance could you run the 292 with one of the aftermarket manifolds and the stock 1bbl. carburetor. I think it would be interesting to see what only changing one thing would to the torque and hp curves..
Let's see you do a dodge slant 6 and then build the engine to make more power turbo, nitrous it doesn't matter I would like to see that. I've heard a lot of people building them but never seen them or how well they preform. Thanks for your time and your videos
@@richardholdener1727 thank you so much for your videos sometimes I miss 2 or 3 videos but I try to watch all that I can. I like learning new things from someone that knows what they are doing. Thanks for your time and all the hard work you put in to your builds and videos looking forward to the slant 6 build that would be awesome 👍💯✌🇺🇸🗽
Wow, I was eagerly waiting to see the PES intake test as that is what I have for my 250. Please do it with an HEI next time. And if possible do a TBI vs multipoint EFI test to see the siamese port limitation and cyl 1&6 running lean on a modern Dyno test, that's where I'm heading next.
change the points and condenser. Gap the points with a match book LoL. My '72 Nova had a 250ci version of this engine. My only complaint was the misfires it had when it rained. The inside of the distributor cap used to collect moisture and condensation. Anybody else experience that with their old points automobile?
Too much carb kills your low end torque. Biggest 4 bbl carburetor I would attempt to use on that engine is a 390 cfm Holley 4160 carb with vacuum secondaries. I have the same carb on my Ford 302 V8 and it is perfect. Very snappy and pulls well. Don't fall for "More's Law" when it comes to carburetors!
Sorry it didn't work out this go around! Look forward to seeing what the 292 will do after the points are fixed. Thanks Richard we enjoy your work! (Watch out for the shaky camera during intro/conclusion)
If you see an old engine and it isn't running right the problem is ALWAYS points, I repeat ALWAYS the points. Ignition points are the sole reason old cars had a reputation for unreliability. I would never use them in a build today.
I have a Inline Six Facebook group, Hot Inline Sixes and Vintage, my admin and i share these videos to my group, the more you can do on the 292 the better, and thank you for doing these videos, very informative.
Haha, I was thinking the points were going to be the problem. I use standard "blue streak" points and they only last like 12,000 miles. Vettes did have dual points.
Nice job on the head, higher compression ratio, a cam with at least 240 to 0.50@ and a triple weber 40 or 44 idf…..this engine would yield more than a lot of small block V8s out there.
I laughed when he mentioned something about crate motors working perfect. I think some builders don’t even own parts washers judging by what I’ve seen inside oil filters.
I'm used to things going bad when I wrench on my car. I started to do a simple brake job and now my car's been sitting on jack stands for a week. Between things breaking and finding more things I didn't know about, it's turning into real work. That's the only good thing about being laid off cause of the virus. I actually have time to work on it and not have to hurry up and get it done so I can drive it to work. Otherwise being laid off sucks. I've never had to go through this before now. I don't like it
Never underestimate the power of ignition. I had a 91 honda crx that would start missing at 5800 to 6100 rpms. I was thinking it was valve float. I had all new high quality ignition parts so I didn't suspect it as the cause. Having painted the valve c over red and wanted it to look really cool I installed a set of Nology high capacity wires. With a claim of upping the spark energy 300% I figured what the heck. It was a great decision because the engine would rev to and beyond 8 grand with out missing. For the first time with this project I was considering a rev limiter.
Does it ever go perfect? Yes, always. I've never:
Busted my knuckles
Been burned by touching something hot.
Stripped a bolt.
Cross threaded a nut.
Cross threaded a bolt.
Got the wrong part(s).
Got the wrong parts again.
Lost tools.
Broke tools.
Bought the wrong tool.
Burrowed the wrong tool.
Made the wrong tool work anyway.
Performed a basic repair only to find out something mysteriously went wrong with a completely unrelated part.
Had to redo a basic job (mostly brakes).
Spilled any one of about 2 dozen fluids.
Broke drill bits.
Broke taps.
Broke a drill bit drilling out a broken tap.
Got dirt in my eyes.
Got rust in my eyes.
Got any number of over a dozen fluids in my eyes.
Got metal in my eyes.
Flashed my eyes with a welder.
Never once. ;)
hey you been watching me? isn't it fun
I would buy that t shirt. And I hate buying t shirts! Probably buy like 10 of em if they're a durable material that will withstand those aforementioned things that we all have definitely never done!
I have done all the the above, plus changed a tire and had the bottle jack loose pressure and the car come down on my fingers... thank god the spare was also flat and save my fingers from being broken. also getting ready to put the carburetor back on and I dropped a wing nut down the intake, past the intake valve and down in the the cylinder.... after replacing a blown head gasket. had to start all over again. and my personal favorite, showing off by doing a burn out after replacing a broken u-joint, only to break another u-joint.
You forgot the magically disappearing 10mm lol
Don't forget about your buddy helping you whose IQ is on par with a potato.
It's funny, Inline 6 guys love all Inline 6 engines brands be damned. I've had 300 Fords, 250 Chevy's, and 225 Mopars and loved them all.
Because only morons want rod bearings half the size.
Yep...Love my 200cid/3.3L Ford.
All SEVEN mains. And can run forever.
OHC Pontiac for me! Smooth and liked to rev.
@@wakjob961 You should look up the videos of the guys in Argentina racing the same engine. Big lumpy cams, triple weber carbs, straight pipes out the side turning 8000 rpm. The only difference between their engines and ours is they have a removable intake manifold. Wicked little engine.
I’ll take any old straight six. Don’t forget the AMC. 👍
i love inline 6's... built a 194 chevy in 1974, 60 milled head, w/202 & 194 valves and v8 springs with a TRW high lift cam (>600 lift) headers. over 250 hp. sold the chevy II (1967 sedan) to a local super stock racer. He ran so fast he had to cage the car... all done with my engine.
I love to see you simply put an HEI distributor on this motor then redo the tests. When I switched to an HEI it seemed like it made a bigger difference than doing the intake and adding a 4 barrel. Of course the intake and carb will support all the other upgrades, but in stock form, the better ignition was a huge upgrade. I’m currently building a 292 and can’t wait to see how this series turns out.
A simple switch to an HEI distributor will get you more horsepower and smoothing running. I never thought it made that much of a difference until I replaced the points distributor on my Chevy 250 6 cyl. Plus with HEI you get longer dwell and aren't limited by point bounce, etc.😉
I'm an amc 258 guy so I'm loving this series of test you're doing. I do think you need to get real with cam changes and a head mill to get at least 9.5 compression. Also on the last test you turned the carburetor. I've had issues with the vacuum signal being stronger on the inboard primary. I personally run a offenhauser intake, Holley 600, voodoo cam and Rhoads lifters with 10.2 compression. Don't know about horsepower but my 3200 pound rambler runs 13.9 with 3.54 gears. Please follow through with all the 292 testing. You are doing testing we could never afford to. I believe it's results are accurate for all American six cylinder engines with intake and exhaust ports on the same side. Thanks bro.
Same here
Everything goes wrong after the auto parts store closes for the night...
FACT!
Every time
I feel that pain!!!!!
Thats when its beer thirty.
Every time!
Not if your a Buick Guy 😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😋
Really hope you finish this test one day. I'm looking to build a 292 for my C10 and this series has been really helpful and I feel like this intake test, especially the offy with double 2 barrels and turbo would be interesting to see
Stock points can not stand up to more power on the 6. I talked to Jack Clifford about running the carb sideways, symmetrical, on his intake. He said it flowed better straight, not how you ran.
Lump ports -big cam-compression-1/8” over bore -yes! 4” bore! Should =400hp!
Sissell/Kirby 12 port head =600 hp!
Dick Bertolucci pushed 4o% Nitro for 1200 hp. Still holds record at Sacramento Raceway.
Did they ever make a triple Weber set up for these! Love to see this with a wild cam and head!!!😀Loving this 292 series of vid’s.
Yes they did
The head has Siamese ports, a triple Porsche IDA would probably be a nice intake
Would love to see that.
In Brazil is Very Common with triple weber
@@andrebcr I suspected that is where a webered set up would come from. Compression, porting, valves and a healthy cam would be needed first. And even then because of the stroke about 6000 rpm and it would be all over. Though probably as much as 350hp real. Or 500 in the pub!
Yes. Clifford did make a triple Weber intake. They at one time even showed a roots blower that bolted directly to the intake ports.
Should check with the Aussie companies they love straight sixes and have a lot cool stuff for em
I can't wait to see these intake combos compared on the modified engine - compression, cam and head, but having said that, it's been great to see how they all work on the stocker, as it'd be rare to see someone take such a path, particularly with the 'wilder' 4bbl variants. Loving this!!!
Ballast resistor is needed.....
I believe the old GM with points ignition vehicles used a resistor (either ballast or resistor wire) to reduce the "electrical load" seen by the points. They "started" with the full 12+ volts going to the coil via a bypass circuit originating at the starter solenoid. Once running, they ran through the ballast resistor, reducing the voltage to the positive side of the coil.
Full 12 volts full time = very reduced points life.
Why do I know such useless info? I started hot rodding back in the "dual point ignition in my 370hp LT-1" era.
Looking forward to that old 292 making ~ 500 lbs ft and at least 370hp @ below 5000rpm with some old school dual carb boost.
Now let us all bow our heads and pray for really low run temps, good race gas, strength for the worn out ring lands in those ancient cast pistons, and strength for the weak ass, 6.760 inch long, SBC looking con-rods in that 6 lunged dinosaurs. LOL
Will an H.E.I from a seventies era 250 straight six bolt up on the old 292?
@@ronnelson7828 Not sure, a 292 is basically a tall deck long stroke 250 AFAIK. I'd guess a good possibility though.
it has one under the cap
@@richardholdener1727 are you sure your not confusing the condenser with the ballast resistor?
The ballast resistor is usually a rectangular white porcelain block with a terminal on each end. Usually not inside the cap, either.
@@richardholdener1727 if you are using the points and condenser to trigger an MSD box the points should last forever. Unless they are already compromised. You can sand them and bring them back to life. Emory board can work wonders.
The late version of these engines had an H.E.I.
Richard I was starting to get concerned. I was expecting this, this morning and well nothing.🥺 You've spoiled us. Keep up the good work.👍
Hey Richard , Thanks for giving us what you had on that stocker 292 , hope you are able to finish up soon like you had planned . Too bad you run out of time , good stuff man !! Thanks Dan Fager
No ballast resistor ......points will be toast sooner or later. Probably sooner, if you are using stock setup instead of MSD white wire trigger input. Great 6 banger series, loving it.
So Richard, you are saying this test is pointless!
I’m sure he’ll enjoy that you pointed it out.
So it doesn't mean its not well grounded.
dalesince59 I don’t get the point.
@@johnhickman7922 me either im gonna have to dwell on it !!!
charles sowers I don`t think any of you have the capacity to dwell on it, this whole debate seems pointless.
Son of a gun, sometimes the smallest, cheapest component can through a wrench into the best laid plans. Glad you figured out what the problem was and in the future,we will be able to watch more combinations on this big six. Keep up the good work.👍
Man I miss my 292 so much that i6 sound never gets old
I remember when i was an apprentice and had a holden 173 (basically baby version of this engine) and changed to a HEI distributor and it made a huge difference. And no points to wear out!
By god you`re honest. It`s refreshing. I enjoy your videos very much, I don`t have access to a dyno any more so I watch yours for any information I can get. I`d really like to see how you map some of those fuel injection parameters some day
I'm one of those "other guys" too. Building a 230 Chevy right now, doing extensive head work with upsizing the valves, lump porting the intakes, springs to match the cam and bolting on an Offy with a Holley 600. Any idiot with a credit card can do an LS swap.
lol
Nuevo seguidor. Tengo una camioneta GMC HIGH SIERRA 84' motor 250 en linea, yo quiero hacer la conversión a 292, transmisión 700r4. Me gustan tus vídeos. Gracias por tus consejos. ❤
Oh man, you had me going. I thought the little 292 blew up lol.
Glad to to hear it's just the points.
Your right s@#t happens all the time working on cars.
Thanks for the test Richard.
I think a HEI is needed. The spark plugs we get now are resistor plugs. and points ignition simply doesnt have enough poop in its pants to fire a resistor type spark plug at high RPM. The increased air flow is blowing the spark out like the wind blows the flame on a candle out. Ive ran a Offy 4 bbl intake with hedders and a HEI on a 250 engine in a 66 GMC pickup. It was great except for the lack of exhaust heat on the intake in colder weather. I got carb icing.
Love that you show the failures- great video. Did I ever tell you about the time I got my 4cylinder, 5valve, DOHC fuel injected engine all set up and ready to go on the dyno, but it wouldn't start? They're like that when you forget to bolt the internal trigger wheel to the crankshaft. Never been so embarrassed.
Great stuff, really enjoying the good,the bad and the ugly of this engine.
Yea, please don’t abandon the 292. Even tho I don’t have one, I am still interested in knowing how this engine performs. Maybe install a electronic ignition, fuel injection, more turbo stuff. Very interesting how an older engine that has been modernized, can make more reliable power in today’s world.
I hope he puts the Lump Port kit in the head, it greatly increases air flow.
John Parrish
If I’m not mistaken, horsepower tv did a 292 turbo build and it was pretty rad. It sounded good, almost like a 2JZ.
Yes, please keep the project rolling! Very interested in seeing more results. :-)
As painful at they are, I always learn more from my failures than my successes. Good job.
you and me both brother
YES! Do everything thing you want to do!!!! Here sitting on the edge of my seat!
Just keep doing what ur doing and don’t worry about the content! This is real world stuff and coming along for the journey with wins and fails is all part of the fun 👍
Richard was so upset that when he got home his Everlast bag failed before he could get a punch in.
You probably aren't running it long enough to burn the points, but, IIRC, the original ign. wire from the switch to the coil had enough resistance to limit peak current through the points and coil. The points don't last long with a straight feed from the battery. I once installed a ballast resistor on one of these engines used in a boat to remedy the problem.
Thanks for taking all time and trouble.
Since you're a Ford guy and I'm a Chevy mechanic and worked at three dealerships I will tell you something about the old points..
. You have to hit with a dwell meter a perfect 31° of dwell... To maximize the blast of a Chevy coil now I imagine that it's probably the same for just about any coil because that 31° is hyper important so when you reset the points on that thing make sure that you hit it at 31 and you'll get the best ignition of the mixture that you can possibly achieve..
I'M NOT A FORD GUY-I'M AN ENGINE GUY WHO UNDERSTANDS DWELL METERS TOO
Hey Richard, really enjoyed the 292 testing! Please keep this project rolling. Looking with interest, as I'm planning to rebuild my 292 shortly and throw on a few power adding mods while I'm at it.
When you get it running again, would be very interesting to install very long runner intake similar to the Mercedes-Benz 300 SL from the 1950's. That 3.0 liter straight 6 was rated at 215 HP and known for great torque. Keep up the great work.
Put a Pertronix Ignitor in or HEI from mid-ish 70s till the end of production. It's one less thing you need to worry about. They don't need the resistive wire that points need to keep from premature wear.
Yeah, HEI!
Great life lessons I never would have expected for this kinda content.
These motors in Australia were downsized to 161,179,186 and 202 cid in our Aussie designed holden cars, engines are similar with slight differences .
Lindsay McPherson : Um, totally different engine block and heads with startling similarities. Not one part is common. The Vauxhall 3.3, Opel-Bitter 2.5/2.8/3.0/3.6/3.9 the Holden 149- 202, any of the Chev sixes ..nothing in common. Bore spacings on the Uk and Europeans, 4.125, Holdens, 4.08.Chev, 4.40. The Holden is a Bonsai GM six, but everything is different. Theres more similarity in a 250 Ford six...it shared the 4.08 bore spacing.
Because Holden copied it....
We all have those problems from time to time. Keeps us on our toes.
This reminds me so much of Charlie Brown Christmas. Merry Christmas Richard!
It's so sad to not see this hit the 5252 marker. It's like a diesel. Love these old engines from before my time. Head and cam!!! Head and cam!!! If money permits.
The 292s have a really long stroke and a really long crank. You have to spend a lot of money to get them to live above 5K. But you can make a lot down low.
On another channel they got one with a stock short block except for hypereutectic pistons to 372 HP and 510 TQ all under 5K with 10.5 lbs of boost.
He's getting cams and a lump port head from 12bolt.com
The 74 or 75 and later inline 6 Chevy's do have HEI distributors. The 199 through 292 all use the same distributor so fine a 250 they are super common.
I love those inline 6`s . I had a 1977 ford 4x4 with a 300 / 6 . I loved it .
Lol, yep, goes wrong alot. I have a Jeep 4.0, Clifford Intake, Holley 390 4150 and copper gasket. Slapped it all together, chased my own tail. Though the Holley had issues tuning, etc. Took intake off and ports weeble/wobbled on my granite. Called Clifford, said it's normal, use a Felpro gasket. Lol. WTH? I used cork, but now going to flatten it and make a flange.
It never goes perfect, lol.
What is like to see is like a basic head refresh. Put a healthy deck on it to get the compression up a little, valve job and Springs, machine the spring seats while your in there. Then test again. Then a port an polish and retest.
I once fought a cracked fuse for days. Tested good, looked good (without proper backlighting) but wouldn't pass enough voltage for the park brake solenoid on the dozer.
It happens. Sometimes the simplest things can gut-punch us. No worries!
Love this series. Really waiting to see the Ford 4.9L since I have one in my truck. 238,000 miles and still going!
The 292 inline six cylinder is a fun engine that deserves more horsepower and attention
Richard..!!..my Good Sir..!!!.
1st, I LOVE YOUR WORK MAN….!!🫶it!!..
…(Especially This Series).
2nd, I can not find the final intake/turbo/shootout
video…Can you PLEASE HELP & direct me to it/them?🙏😗🙏…..(I know you had to have finished the 292’ series by now) Surely.?, tell me it’s so..😬..Tell Meee!!!
🙏
Thanks, Brando
there is a turbo video up-but no intake shoot out
Great job I'm looking forward to the redo keep it up brother
When I lived in South Africa in the 1980’s...
Because I’m a gear head...I noticed everything automotive, when perhaps I should have been more aware of the history being made in front of my very eyes (I was in my early 20’s...that’s my excuse).
But instead...one of the automotive details I clearly remember was the 292 insignia on virtually all the grills of the right hand drive mid-70’s to early 80’s era Chevy pickup trucks ( note: no one drove pick-up trucks there... they were only used by businesses)
Yet, At home here in Michigan ( 30 miles from my house, where Chevy trucks are built). All the Chevy truck in that era had 350, 400, or 454 grill insignias... never ever 292...Never!
So....when I saw this vid. It brlriught me back to Johannesburg
I hear ya. I've got a large collection of of well intentioned maintenance parts from past vehicles that never quite made its destination.
slap on a HEI instead of the points distributor
The old stove bolts are nice ! You can replace the lifters without removing the cyl head - you can upfit a HEI dist from a 75 chevy nova ! I would make a tuned port style intake up and over the valve cover for heatsake and turbo it ! My dads 68 ran like a sewing machine ! Thanks for your time effort and educational videos ! Even i learned someting new and o share my knowledge a lil heren there !
I would say everything goes perfectly about 50 percent of the time. The other 50% of the time a lot of cuss words are used and tools get tossed around my shop.
I like to cuss even when its going well-sort of preemptive-just for the future stuff
6 en linea mi motor preferido.durable y facil de reparar
Get a Factory HEI. Remove a variable. It will be dead-consistent. Points=garbage.
He will once I gets in the the engine harder
Richard, you're killing me ! 😭
This lump needs an HEI, AT A MINIMUM.
Points suck ass. It's 2020, for Pete's sake ! 😞
Selfish Bitching aside, Thanks for all your hard work ! Looking forward to a better & more complete test with a bit cleaner engine ! 😎👍
Dude. I love the vids. Just...the intro---and the conclusion. One word. Tripod. OMG. I had to look away. The shakes were killing me!
thank you for your time & all the work you do.
I have an atk 292
Moderate cam.
Hydraulic lifters.
Ported and decked head. Offenhouser intake. Holley sniper.
Hooked headers. Custom exhaust, Borla x muffler. 280 hp 400 ft lbs of torque
I for sure was expecting big gains like the Ford 300 gets.
This is the Big Brother to our ever popular 202ci we got over here in Australia. Never seen the Carby mounted across the Manifold before, our 4BRL Manifolds mount the same as the PES. Will go down the Rabbit Hole looking for Boosted Runs!
Richard, you know as well as i do, when everything works out perfect the first time, something is wrong. Thats when i go back and double check everything. My last name is Murphy, what can happen will. Nice work, keep on keeping on
Evening Richard 😇 thanks for all the hard work and as always another great video I really appreciate it. I was thinking while you're going to be redoing everything how about stepping up a little bit and swapping out the points for an inexpensive electronic upgrade to something like a pertronix ignitor box instead of running a new set of points?. It's cheap reliable and efficient and should add a little more and the game's Department across the board?
You're preachin it. Got the rocker studs and poly locks swapped out, valves lashed then I had an o-ring for one of the injectors just start gushing fuel out. I had one hole that wasn't firing so I'm still working through that. Gotta get a temp gun to see if it's going or not. After all that, I still have a miss. On to the HEI module and coil I guess.
I believe Edelbrock made an SP2P Intake, only good for torque and mileage. Extremely low RPM manifold. Not worth testing IMO.
The Offy always made more low end torque on all my 250 engines, the runners are small like stock Cliffords have huge runners and gives a weak signal to the carb.
Three
Side draft Weber DCOE’s made the most torque out of all the combos I have ever tested with different carbs and different intakes. New points will work fine for the rest of the testing, but an HEI gives you a bit more output.
Thx again Rich for these videos!
For the want of a nail.... At the beginning when you said you had a failure and it started missing I was afraid it swallowed a valve. Whew!
On my projects , I've gotten there to start tinkering and grabbed a wrench first thing and it flew out of my hands , Butterfingers!
That right there is an omen folks, set the wrench down and walk away because it's only gonna get worse if you keep at it.
Stripped and snapped bolt heads and mangled threads are in your future if you don't walk away and come back later.
If you get a chance could you run the 292 with one of the aftermarket manifolds and the stock 1bbl. carburetor. I think it would be interesting to see what only changing one thing would to the torque and hp curves..
Thanks Richard great video, worn out parts happens to everyone lol
Let's see you do a dodge slant 6 and then build the engine to make more power turbo, nitrous it doesn't matter I would like to see that. I've heard a lot of people building them but never seen them or how well they preform. Thanks for your time and your videos
yes on the slant
@@richardholdener1727 thank you so much for your videos sometimes I miss 2 or 3 videos but I try to watch all that I can. I like learning new things from someone that knows what they are doing. Thanks for your time and all the hard work you put in to your builds and videos looking forward to the slant 6 build that would be awesome 👍💯✌🇺🇸🗽
Wow, I was eagerly waiting to see the PES intake test as that is what I have for my 250. Please do it with an HEI next time. And if possible do a TBI vs multipoint EFI test to see the siamese port limitation and cyl 1&6 running lean on a modern Dyno test, that's where I'm heading next.
Right, TBI works, but port efi does not, due to the siamesed ports. I’ve tried both on my 292.
My uncle had one that run great. The machine shop milled the head, bore the cylinders, and installed 3 Rochester 2gc.
I new a man back in the 80s that was a 292 fanatic when he finally got his engine right it was a beast
Awesome! The PES seems to address the bottom 90* turn inherent to all classic inline 6 engines.
change the points and condenser. Gap the points with a match book LoL.
My '72 Nova had a 250ci version of this engine. My only complaint was the misfires it had when it rained. The inside of the distributor cap used to collect moisture and condensation. Anybody else experience that with their old points automobile?
Yep. I had a 73 Malibu coupe with a 250 six cylinder. Everytime it rained, or drove through puddles, it misfired.
I had a LS250 1968 Chevy C10 short bed step side with over 300 thousand miles 3speed Saginaw
Too much carb kills your low end torque. Biggest 4 bbl carburetor I would attempt to use on that engine is a 390 cfm Holley 4160 carb with vacuum secondaries.
I have the same carb on my Ford 302 V8 and it is perfect. Very snappy and pulls well.
Don't fall for "More's Law" when it comes to carburetors!
Sorry it didn't work out this go around! Look forward to seeing what the 292 will do after the points are fixed. Thanks Richard we enjoy your work! (Watch out for the shaky camera during intro/conclusion)
I totally understand why your doing this. And i am very interested. 250 I6 here
If you see an old engine and it isn't running right the problem is ALWAYS points, I repeat ALWAYS the points. Ignition points are the sole reason old cars had a reputation for unreliability. I would never use them in a build today.
Interesting test….very cool!
Maybe an HEI ignition and new valve springs?
Also maybe a 300 ford six in comparison.
Shows how nice the electronic ignition upgrade can be.
I bet David Freiburger pulls some of his engines out of lakes when no one is looking.
Give Pertronix a call, see if they will send you one of their modules for that 292 .
Come for the Holdener stay for the music
I have a Inline Six Facebook group, Hot Inline Sixes and Vintage, my admin and i share these videos to my group, the more you can do on the 292 the better, and thank you for doing these videos, very informative.
Haha, I was thinking the points were going to be the problem. I use standard "blue streak" points and they only last like 12,000 miles. Vettes did have dual points.
Nice job on the head, higher compression ratio, a cam with at least 240 to 0.50@ and a triple weber 40 or 44 idf…..this engine would yield more than a lot of small block V8s out there.
I look forward to seeing that 292 clean with some new points lol
I laughed when he mentioned something about crate motors working perfect. I think some builders don’t even own parts washers judging by what I’ve seen inside oil filters.
I hate points. I converted many point ignition to Pertronix ignition and loved it.
I am sure they have a point conversion for this motor.
do all those tests with a 4.3 and showcase some options for the 4.3 guys!!! love this though the 292 is a great little work horse!
So cool
I'm used to things going bad when I wrench on my car. I started to do a simple brake job and now my car's been sitting on jack stands for a week. Between things breaking and finding more things I didn't know about, it's turning into real work. That's the only good thing about being laid off cause of the virus. I actually have time to work on it and not have to hurry up and get it done so I can drive it to work. Otherwise being laid off sucks. I've never had to go through this before now. I don't like it
when you work on one thing-the other things get jealous
Richard Holdener : Lol....
Still want to know how the PES performs. Pretty please, come back and finish this!
Never underestimate the power of ignition. I had a 91 honda crx that would start missing at 5800 to 6100 rpms. I was thinking it was valve float. I had all new high quality ignition parts so I didn't suspect it as the cause. Having painted the valve c over red and wanted it to look really cool I installed a set of Nology high capacity wires. With a claim of upping the spark energy 300% I figured what the heck. It was a great decision because the engine would rev to and beyond 8 grand with out missing. For the first time with this project I was considering a rev limiter.